General Discussion (2) …

General Discussion (2) …

The General Discussion thread will always remain at the top of the page.  Links to previous discussion thread appended.   New articles, newest first, will appear below…

If there’s something of interest in the news that’s not covered in one of the topic threads, or you have a question to ask, a comment you’d like to make about anything under the sun, more or less, this is the thread for you.

Feel free, also, to share your favourite spiritual reading books, prayers and devotions. Whatever.


To read previous General Discussion topics click here

Comments (504)

  • webmaster

    A few people have reported that they get a message regarding the site’s security certificate since we moved server. This can be two things; your internet security software (so go into those settings and tell it that Catholic Truth is a ‘trusted’ site) or it can be Microsoft Internet Explorer. Here’s what Microsoft say you should do in that case…

    Add the URL to the Trusted Sites security zone:
    Open Internet Explorer
    Go to Menu bar > Tools > Internet Options.
    Click Security > Trusted sites > Sites
    Type the URL in the Add this website to the zone text box > uncheck Require server verification >Add > click OK
    Click OK to exit.Now you have added the URL successfully into the Trusted Sites security zone.

    This will be added to the ‘help’ page…

    July 14, 2013 at 7:26 pm
    • Athanasius

      Thanks for the guidance, webmaster. I only had the message once and then it vanished, so fingers crossed. At least I now know what to do in the event it returns.

      July 14, 2013 at 10:40 pm
  • editor

    Many thanks, webmaster – I think that’s very helpful.

    July 14, 2013 at 7:53 pm
  • spiritustempore

    I notice that Damian Thompson is attacking Church teaching on homosexuality in his Telegraph blog this week:

    Atrocious anti-gay bigotry from Father Z,/b>

    By Damian Thompson Religion

    I’ve long been a fan of Fr John Zuhlsdorf for his measured defence of the traditional Mass; I know that, like many US traditionalists, he’s very much opposed to the “homosexual agenda” – but nothing prepared me for the article he published today. Never have I changed my mind about someone so fast.

    It’s a revolting piece of work, using the wicked murder of a devout Catholic lady to imply all manner of horrible things about homosexuals in general – “this is what ‘they’ are like, you know”. (NB: when Z fisks the CNS article, the emphasis in bold type is his; his own comments are between square brackets.)

    Its rhetorical style reminds me of old-fashioned racist propaganda. And it will, I hope, shock many Catholics who firmly uphold the Church’s teaching on sexual morality.

    More here:-

    July 15, 2013 at 12:38 pm
    • editor

      Thanks for this very revealing article, spiritustempore.

      Would it be over-egging the pudding to ask if this is about the closest Damian Thompson has come to date, to “outing” himself?

      July 16, 2013 at 12:11 am
      • crofterlady

        Gosh editor, the very same question entered my mind!

        July 16, 2013 at 9:31 am
      • spiritustempore

        Oh I suspect that Mr Thompson’s love of lace is now firmly in context, Editor 🙂

        Just another hypocrite who can’t live up to the faith he claims to defend.

        July 16, 2013 at 11:17 pm
      • Eileenanne

        I don’t think defending the Faith when one cannot live up to it equals hypocrisy. I do it all the time. Don’t you?

        September 29, 2013 at 7:29 pm
    • editor


      Thanks for posting that Telegraph article – if only the Pope would embrace the SSPX not to mention the Third Secret of Fatima – that WOULD be newsworthy.

      July 16, 2013 at 12:12 am
      • Nolite Timere

        Is your memory failing dear Ed?

        Pope Benedict did embrace the SSPX and tried to aid their return.
        However the stubbornness of the SSPX meant that couldn’t happen.

        July 17, 2013 at 9:53 am
      • Athanasius

        Nolite Timere,

        I’ve had to use the reply button on editor’s comments to respond to you since your response didn’t have one.

        Anyway, that’s a load of old rubbish about Pope Benedict XVI and you know it!

        Yes, the Pope seemed perfectly willing in himself to embrace the SSPX in the beginning. But it wasn’t the SSPX who placed obstacles in the way of progress in the Rome negotiations. No, if you had been following the story you would have known that Cardinal Levada, at the 11th hour, scrapped the doctrinal preamble agreed between the SSPX and Rome, the one authorised by Pope Benedict, and returned to the original that said the SSPX had to accept the entire Council and the New Mass. His actions shocked the world, not to mention Bishop Fellay who only found out about the betrayal when he arrived at the Vatican to sign the agreement.

        Then, in a second shocking move, Cardinal Levada was replaced as Prefect of the CDF by Cardinal Muller, by far the most SSPX-hating prelate in the Church.

        We also now know that pressure had been brought to bear on the Pope, not only by the liberal Curia but also by certain secular governments and the German Conference of Bishops to ensure that Tradition was not accepted back into the Church. Why do you think Pope Benedict felt it necessary to abdicate afterwards? Together with the Vatileaks scandal, he felt overwhelmed by the betrayal.

        Now Pope Francis refuses to mingle with the Curia, he avoids the Vatican like the plague and constantly drops hints about the unsavoury goings-on within the walls. If only these Popes would realise that they are there by God’s appointment to rule with authority, not run away. If they would only obey the request of Our Lady, now that would signify a renewal in the Church that we could all take seriously.

        July 17, 2013 at 10:56 am
  • editor

    Happy Feast of Our Lady of Mount Carmel to one and all !

    July 16, 2013 at 11:34 am
    • Augustine

      Many thanks, Mme Editor. There used to be the most beautiful Marian statue I have ever seen at the Carmelite Monastery in Pollokshields, Glasgow.It was a statue of Our Lady of Mount Carmel.

      I used to go for early morning Mass at 7:30am there many years ago when I converted. Sadly, I remember the liturgy to be very modern with the faithful helping themselves to the chalice from the altar and one priest describing Mass as the “Lord’s Supper”.

      Back to user name Augustine.

      July 16, 2013 at 12:47 pm
  • Athanasius


    Thanks for the reminder of today’s great Feast, which I shamefully admit to having forgotten about. Happy Feast day to all.

    July 16, 2013 at 1:58 pm
  • Miles Immaculatae

    To all those enrolled in the Brown Scapular (hopefully everybody), remember one may receive a plenary indulgence today under the usual conditions!

    July 16, 2013 at 2:52 pm
  • wurdesmythe

    “I learned from a person who was a witness to their martyrdom that the youngest of these good Carmelites was called first and that she went to kneel before her venerable Superior, asked her blessing and permission to die. She then mounted the scaffold singing Laudate Dominum omnes gentes. She then went to place herself beneath the blade allowing the executioner to touch her. All the others did the same. The Venerable Mother was the last sacrificed. During the whole time, there was not a single drum-roll; but there reigned a profound silence.”

    – The Superior General of the Sisters of Charity of Nevers (1794) writing of the execution of sixteen Carmelite nuns by the French Republic

    July 16, 2013 at 2:56 pm
  • Josephine

    Happy Feast day!


    Thank you for that beautiful extract. I quake at the thought of martyrdom myself but it is so edifying to read about those who’ve had the courage to give their lives for the Faith.

    July 16, 2013 at 5:42 pm
    • wurdesmythe

      It would be a rare soul who routinely possesses the courage to face such an end. The sisters exhibited heroic courage; no doubt they prayed to receive this gift of courage – they asked their loving Father, and they received what only He could provide. It was a special grace for a special circumstance.

      July 17, 2013 at 4:36 pm
  • Augustine

    Apropos of nothing, I just found the following article in the Guardian that acknowledges that aerosol spraying in the atmosphere is taking place.

    A number of other Catholics have brought this to my attention and, after initial and prolonged skepticism, I have come to accept the strong possibility that reflective metal particulates may indeed be getting released in the atmosphere, possibly with the misguided belief that they may “cool the planet” (see Guardian article above).It’s clear even to an untrained eye that the trails we see in the sky are very different from what we saw, say, in the 1970’s: they don’t disappear after a few minutes but diffuse into a wide patch of haze.

    At any rate, the fact that people like Dr David Keith, the Harvard ‘geo-engineer’, are now openly talking about putting “aerosol pollution in the upper atmosphere” should give anyone pause for thought.

    July 17, 2013 at 2:50 am
    • editor

      Sorry, Augustine – I’ve just seen this in the SPAM box. Presumably because there’s more than two links. WordPress recommend setting two links max which is, I know, a pain but apparently more than two is a feature of SPAM.

      Very interesting post indeed.

      July 18, 2013 at 11:17 am
  • 3littleshepherds

    Here’s a description from a 1945 catechism textbook. It’s short, perfect and good for children.
    “The Cross, with the body of Christ thereon, had become the Key of Salvation which fitted into the lock on the gate of heaven and threw back the bolt that the entrance to eternal happiness might once more be opened to the human race.” (Through Christ Our Lord, copyright 1945)

    July 17, 2013 at 11:07 pm
  • Miles Immaculatae

    Little question I’m confused about. An old Catechism I have mentions limbo for un-baptised infants not in a state of actual sin. I thought this had been dismissed by the Church as faulty theology. However, an SSPX article I read says that the concept of a state of natural happiness without the Beatific Vision for those who die in original sin without baptism is the traditional position. How is this possible? Scientific understanding of human reproduction has advanced in modern times and we know that a woman often spontaneously aborts a zygote before it even implants in the uterine wall. Life begins at conception which is a scientific fact, and spontaneous abortion, and like most cases of infant death although not part of God’s plan is a natural occurrence. I am having difficulty accepting this. Can someone explain?

    July 18, 2013 at 2:32 am
  • Petrus


    I did a bit of reading about this recently and I once had a conversation with a SSPX about Limbo. He insisted it was the Traditional position. I don’t think it has ever been defined as an Article of Faith and I know that some theologians have questioned it recently. However, I don’t know if it has been “dismissed” as such.

    Traditionally, Limbo was always considered a realm of Hell. The term Limbo, if I’m not mistaken, means “edge”. Limbo is the very edge of Hell. I seem to remember reading that Hell has four parts. The Hell of the Damned, Limbo of the Fathers, Limbo of the Infants and Purgatory. Saint Augustine of Hippo held that because of original sin, “such infants as quit the body without being baptised will be involved in the mildest condemnation of all”.

    Saint Thomas Aquinas taught this about the Limbo of the Infants (from Wikipedia):

    “Saint Thomas Aquinas described the Limbo of Infants as an eternal state of natural joy, untempered by any sense of loss at how much greater their joy might have been had they been baptized. He argued that this was a reward of natural happiness for natural virtue; a reward of supernatural happiness for merely natural virtue would be inappropriate since, due to original sin, unbaptized children lack the necessary supernatural grace. In regards to baptism of desire, Aquinas stated that only adults were capable of this,[15] and this view seemed to be accepted by the Council of Florence, which quotes Aquinas in its Eleventh Session concerning baptism of infants.”

    I think some theologians have questioned whether unbaptised children can get to Heaven. In fact, Cardinal Ratzinger was one of them. When the new Catechism came out in 1992 this is what it said:

    “the Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude”, but also stating that “God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments. As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: ‘Let the children come to me, do not hinder them, allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.”

    So, rather than dismiss the existence of Limbo, the Church expressed hope that unbaptised children could be saved. I think I’m right in saying that we can legitimately hold our own opinion on this as it has never been definitively defined. My own belief is that Limbo does exist.

    July 18, 2013 at 8:13 am
  • Augustine

    I am planning to write a letter to protest the imminent canonisation of Pope John Paul II. At the very least it will let me feel that I did what I could to avert this disaster for the Church. Can anyone suggest to whom I should I write? The nuncio?

    July 18, 2013 at 8:38 pm
  • editor


    I think you’d write to the Postulator (for the cause of Pope John Paul II) at the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, but I don’t know the address – would have to check it out and can’t this minute.

    July 18, 2013 at 9:12 pm
    • Augustine

      Thanks, Mme Editor.

      July 18, 2013 at 9:29 pm
  • Crossraguel

    Some very disturbing relationships within the Vatican being reported on by Damian Thompson:

    Initial thoughts would be that the report is extremely specific with names, places etc. Also dreadful to consider how open this/these relationships are alleged to have been – how many faithful scandalised.

    July 21, 2013 at 8:13 am
    • Crossraguel

      “The black hole in Ricca’s personal history is the period he spent in Uruguay, in Montevideo, on the northern shore of the Rio de la Plata, across from Buenos Aires.”

      A thinly veiled insinuation?

      July 21, 2013 at 8:17 am
    • gabriel syme

      Yes these reports about Monsignor Ricci, whom Pope Francis has appointed to run the Vatican bank, are very concerning. The article Thompson links to has even more shocking detail.

      It seems the man who has been his homosexual partner tried to have his own luggage sent to Riccis new Vatican address, as diplomatic baggage no less. It was eventually found to contain a firearm and large quantities of condoms and pornography.

      It doesn’t seem Pope Francis is as well informed about homosexual clergy as he may think and/or the efforts to deal with them have gone awry already.

      July 21, 2013 at 3:25 pm
      • Josephine

        I think Pope Francis is spending far too much time talking about the materially poor instead of doing his job and dealing with the spiritual poverty in the Church. I was shocked to find out that he’d had contact with David Cameron recently without even mentioning the same sex marriage bill. What is going on?

        July 21, 2013 at 6:54 pm
  • sixupman

    This a.m. on the Radio 4 religious programme Anglican of Canterbury opined he had been persuaded to become reconcile with the validity of “homosexual intimacy”! Does he know what it entails?

    July 21, 2013 at 2:40 pm
    • Josephine


      That is the most amazing thing. Nobody seems to even think about the disgusting detail of what “homosexual intimacy” actually is, yet everyone want to be so broad minded and approve it.

      July 21, 2013 at 6:55 pm
  • spiritustempore

    The race is won!

    Dear friends,

    The waiting is over!

    I am delighted to be able to officially confirm that the Irish Catholic Bishop’s Conference will be proceeding with the SCNCI proposal for the Episcopal Consecration of Ireland to the Immaculate Heart of Mary next month on the 15th August the Feast of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary

    The Irish bishops will gather during the Annual Novena at the National Shrine of Our Lady of Knock to formally safeguard the Irish nation from the ongoing moral and spiritual crisis and the advances of the Culture of Death by officially placing Ireland under the protection of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Deo Gratias!

    This is truly a momentous day as the two year mission of the SCNCI comes to a successful conclusion and the imminent Episcopal consecration of the Irish nation to the intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary is set to spearhead the renewal of the faith in this land of Saints and Scholars.

    May I extend my thanks to everyone who made this possible, especially those who offered their Rosaries to win the grace for the bishops to proceed with this beautiful act of patronage to the Mother of God, the SCNCI workers who tirelessly promoted the mission, the donors who made it financially possible, our external advisors for their wise counsel, all our supporting organizations for their steady support, the committee members, and you, our subscribers who prayed for us and supported us.

    May I also honour those hidden victim souls who suffered interminably for the success of this mission in union with the Holy Souls in purgatory under the altar of the most High as depicted at Knock, to make up what was lacking in the mystical body of Christ on earth for an outpouring of such heavenly grace for the renewal of the faith in Ireland on this feast day of the repentant St Mary Magdalene.

    We also extend our great thanks to the Benedictines of Silverstream Priory, Stamullen, Co Meath for agreeing to offer our 100 consecutive Tridentine Masses from the 1st January this year for the souls Our Lady most desired to be released in honour of Archdeacon Cavanagh’s original century of Masses that spurred the heavenly Knock apparitions.

    Let us now set our face like flint in the confident expectation that Ireland will put her own house back in order against the ravages Culture of Death and God will fulfill His promises to her upon her return to her covenant with His Sacred Heart made in 1873, in the words of Blessed Pope John Paul II, to help Ireland “bring the light of Christ to the nations”

    Can you hear the chorus that is beginning in haste for the Great Renewal?

    “And the Lamb will conquer and the woman clothed with the sun will shine her light on everyone…Yes the lamb will conquer…!”

    Yes, please do send this fabulous news far and wide!

    Ad Jesum Per Mariam (To Jesus through Mary)

    Kind Regards and God Bless

    Simon Galloway (Chairman)
    SCNCI, P.O. Box 51, Claremorris, County Mayo, Ireland. | |

    If you have not done so already please sign our petition

    Short informational video by SCNCI

    July 23, 2013 at 11:47 am
    • editor

      My first reaction to this, as to other national consecrations, is that it seems they’ll consecrate anything and everything to the Immaculate Heart except Russia.

      It’s still welcome news, of course. Pity they didn’t do this before the abortion debate and before Cardinal Brady gave the politicians his assurance that they wouldn’t be denied Holy Communion if they voted in favour of murdering babies in the womb. It remains to be seen whether or not this consecration will turn out to have been a case of heaping coals of fire upon episcopal heads.

      July 23, 2013 at 10:08 pm
  • editor


    New Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh

    On Wednesday 24th July 2013 at 11am (12 noon Rome time) the name of the new Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh will be published.

    If any of our Edinburgh readers/bloggers would like to represent us at the press conference
    in the Gillis Centre, please contact me on

    July 23, 2013 at 6:31 pm
    • gabriel syme

      Who is your expectation / preference for the post (if any) Editor?

      Let us hope they have chosen well!

      July 23, 2013 at 8:54 pm
      • editor

        At the risk of being accused (again) of being negative, Gabriel Syme, I have to say that I cannot think of a single priest or bishop, including those in Rome, who will make a blind bit of difference. Were there such a priest, we’d have heard about him, he’d be notorious, and he certainly would NOT be appointed Archbishop of St Andrew’s & Edinburgh.

        I await the news, therefore, with interest, but not with any genuine hope or anticipation. That died a death after the last conclave.

        I’m not sure if there is any point in posting a thread to welcome the new Archbishop, but if anyone feels a burning desire to discuss the appointment in a separate thread, speak now or forever hold your peace…

        July 23, 2013 at 10:11 pm
      • Crossraguel

        I’ll take you up on that suggestion editor – whoever is translated or ordained to the metropolitan see will be worthy of significant blog attention, we of course live in hope that the debate provoked will be of realistic prospect that restoration begins here.

        Our Lady of Aberdeen, pray for us

        July 24, 2013 at 12:18 am
  • Crossraguel

    Just digested some of EWTN’s coverage of the opening Mass for World Youth Day. Pope Francis was not present, citing rest after his journey.

    Attempting to put aside my natural aversion to such contemporary expressions of Catholicism, and endeavouring to play devil’s advocate to my own instinctive sentiment, some initial observations: probably a euphoric environment/atmosphere, apparently widespread sincerity in participation. Reasonably slick opening ceremony and delivery, large, impressive ‘sanctuary’ on Copacabana beach. From what I heard of readings/collect/sermon etc. nothing especially contrary to the faith. Four altar boys, no altar girls. Beautiful rendition of Panis Angelicus during/after holy communion.

    My own perspective: noisy rock concert atmosphere, it’d doubtless be possible to have acquired some temporal enjoyment from proceedings, without any spiritual offering being present. The Mass was certainly integrated into proceedings, though I’d contend that the solemn sacrifice insofar as it was offered in the consecration was ruptured from the wider means of expression, the overtly charismatic and hyperactive Gloria exemplifying the contrast. The prevalence of national flags throughout the crowd too also struck me (I may have missed devotional banners, but certainly recall seeing none), perhaps as a consequence of my earlier chastisement at the hands of my father for having taken a turn carrying the stars and stripes in our Chartres chapter as a boy – he having criticised the (sincere, probably ignorant/immersed in their cult of nagionality) Americans for having taken it along, citing its anti-Catholic revolutionary, freemasonic etc. origins, contrasted with the Irish banner in honour of Our Blessed Lady, which we also took turn to carry. How many national flags these days represent other than vestiges of historic Christianity or secularism at best, overt rejection of Christ at worst.

    I had left the room for a time, so missed most of the distribution of Holy Communion – it was also dark so hard to make out. What I think I observed was the faithful joining hands in a chain going to or coming from reception of the Blessed Sacrament. Needless innovation and I’d reckon calculated to send the faithful back to their parishes with renewed vigour, though converting those of a more conservative default to be freed of their liturgical inhibitions.

    Like Medjugorje, I’d concede that those of good faith may take some degree of spiritual enrichment from attending such an event, imbibed as it is in Catholicism. The nature of such an event however is surely far the more dangerous to the fledgling and probably under-catechised Catholic, whose temporal senses are likely to be aroused much as they are at rock concerts and particularly by evangelical protestants, the latter whose vacuous product, devoid of the limitations of the spiritual necessity and liturgical discipline of revelation and truth, is likely to be the more aesthetically pleasing, appealing as it does to the humanist tendencies of our fallen nature. With the richness of faith, tradition, sacraments, why attempt to take our own youth onto the playing field of others, failing to emphasise the rich treasures of Catholicism, rather attempt to pitch a lowest common denominator of synchretism which inherently endangers the soul.

    That Pope Francis may surprise us by some ligurgical restoration akin to Paul VI and Humane Vitae, published 45 years ago today.

    July 24, 2013 at 1:37 am
    • editor


      Thanks for your response re. the soon-to-be announced new Archbishop of St Andrew’s & Edinburgh – I will post a thread asap and then one of our on-the-ball bloggers can add the name when it is announced, as I may not be free at 11.a.m.

      The EWTN report on the opening Mass at WYD ties in with what I’ve just read on the Vatican Radio summary – here it is:

      (Vatican Radio) Copacabana beach was the place to be on Tuesday evening as thousands of people flocked to the famed spot to be part of the Mass celebrating the opening of World Youth Day. Our correspondent Seàn Patrick Lovett was there and sends this report.

      I braved the elements and walked six and a half kilometres all the way down the beach to the Mass site. I know it’s six and a half kilometres because there are giant hydrogen balloons floating in the air to tell you how far you have to go. Then I walked back. That’s thirteen kilometres. I did it for you – because I know you’d love to be where I am, to experience what I’m experiencing. And I’m so grateful I did. Whatever you may or may not have seen on television – believe me it was nothing compared to being there in person.

      The sights, the sounds, the smells, the sheer old-fashioned excitement of it all: Woodstock (the music), the Olympics (the flags), and a massive beach party (the surf), all rolled into one. And the young people kept on coming: Brazilians mostly (they live here), closely followed by Argentinians (we know why), and then…the rest of the world. Complete strangers stopping to ask you where you are from, others turning to smile (sheepishly, when they’re the same age you are – as if to say “It’s OK…we’re all young at heart”).

      Everyone wanting you to take their picture. Everyone laughing, singing, dancing – even the occasional bishop doing everything he could to be trendy while trying to keep the sand out of his sash. Street vendors did a roaring trade, selling everything from caps to caipirinhas, from banners to bananas. And the young people kept on coming (some of them later because a portion of the metro broke down for a while). They filled the streets and covered the beach, some even splashed about among the waves of the Atlantic.

      Then the ceremony itself began – and suddenly it was show-time, with a precision and a pageantry worthy of any Olympic opening ceremony. The WYD Cross arrived and I saw a young girl burst into tears when she reached out to touch it – and couldn’t. I saw a disabled young man being carried over the heads of the crowd like a rock-star – because his wheelchair got stuck in the sand. Then the Mass began – and suddenly it was prayer-time, with an attention and participation worthy of any open-air cathedral. I felt the specialness of it all, the uniqueness of the moment, and the privilege of being able to be there. Listen to Seàn Patrick Lovett’s report 00:03:21:36 END

      And from me, at this time? No comment (which says it all, really!)

      July 24, 2013 at 8:10 am
  • editor

    Crossraguel & All,

    I’ve now posted a new thread on the appointment of the new Archbishop of St Andrew’s & Edinburgh, partly to save pushing up the number of comments on this thread, so please comment on that thread on the subject of the New Archbishop of St Andrew’s & Edinburgh Appointed Today…

    Many thanks.

    July 24, 2013 at 9:31 am
  • pewcatholic

    Still trying to register …

    July 24, 2013 at 9:13 pm
  • pewcatholic

    Wow! It looks as though I’ve succeeded!

    July 24, 2013 at 9:19 pm
    • editor

      You have! Welcome back!

      July 24, 2013 at 9:48 pm
  • Crossraguel

    Not seen Athanasius or Torkay about these parts for a wee while; anyone heard from/of them lately?

    July 25, 2013 at 12:06 pm
    • gabriel syme


      I am sure I have seen posts from Athanasius quite recently, but maybe one or both posters is on holiday currently (?).

      July 25, 2013 at 1:02 pm
      • Josephine

        I’ve seen a lot of posts from Athanasius, but Petrus and Torkay have almost disappeared. I was just thinking that myself and that this new blog is much quieter than the old one. Maybe it’s the holidays, right enough, but I miss the old cut and thrust! I hope they all hurry back.

        July 25, 2013 at 1:25 pm
    • editor

      Athanasius emailed me a few days ago to say he is a little poorly right now and apologises for his absence – no need to apologise, he more than does his bit.

      Torkay, however, is a different kettle of fish. I emailed him to tell him that I’d just spotted your question, and he replies as follows: could be a blog post all on its own!

      “Greetings Crossraquel, and thanks for your inquiry. I have stopped participating in the “Tradition Wars,” as well as the “culture wars,” for two reasons: one, the tone of most of the exchanges leaves me cold (i.e. people “talking” at each other rather than to each other), and two, I have work to do on myself to refine exactly what I want to say and how I want to say it. Moreover, I find that I much prefer personal contact, which is much more conducive to setting a Catholic example, and much less likely to result in strident polemics. Personal contact results in real conversations; in my opinion, blogging is not a real conversation.” END

      July 25, 2013 at 2:22 pm
      • Petrus


        I’ve been around, posting a few times as recent as yesterday. I haven’t, admittedly, been able to blog as much as I’d like to as I’m on holiday and entertaining my three young sons.

        I don’t think it’s helpful to publicly question where bloggers are. I know I blog when I can and I’m sure others are the same.

        July 25, 2013 at 2:55 pm
      • Petrus


        I’m very disappointed with Torkay’s response. It doesn’t fool me. I fear Torkay has thrown in the towel. It sounds a little bit sanctimonious too.


        Disappointed, Glasgow

        July 25, 2013 at 4:02 pm
    • Athanasius


      Just thought I’d drop a note to say that I’m still very much alive and kicking despite having flu at the moment. I’ve been feeling a bit rough these past few days (understatement!) but hopefully the old antibiotics will kick in soon and I’ll be swinging from the chandeliers again in no time.

      July 25, 2013 at 3:45 pm
  • leprechaun

    Madame Editor,

    I should like to propose a permanent feature for the revised blog in the form of a learning resource called: “Recommended Spiritual Reading”.

    Whilst on holiday I read e-book versions of the published sermons of the Cure of Ars, and Cardinal Vaughan’s translation of “Humility of Heart”.

    I found the reading of these two books quite a revelation, and I should like other bloggers to be able to share that experience, and, in simili modo, to share their own enlightening reading with the rest of us.

    I commend the proposal to you.

    July 25, 2013 at 12:18 pm
    • editor


      I will give this some thought, although not keen to have “permanent fixtures” generally speaking. If you recall, when I agreed to requests on our very first blog, to launch a permanent prayer and then “any questions” threads, I spent half my time going onto the lead topic to alert everyone to entries on those much sought after (but seldom used!) threads. I will think about it, of course, but right now I am extremely busy not least trying to finish the August newsletter amidst constant distractions and interruptions, so please feel free to use the General Discussion thread to advertise any solid spiritual reading that you think would help people for the moment.

      July 25, 2013 at 2:27 pm
  • gabriel syme

    We are hoping to go away a long weekend (Budapest) shortly to celebrate our 1st wedding anniversary. One of my favourite things about holidays is checking out what Catholic Churches I can visit or attend, (thats perfectly healthy, right?), during the time away.

    Masses for holidaymakers are often, er “interesting”. On honeymoon last year, I was at a mass conducted in near total darkness (there was a power cut, and the Church had only 2 non-electric candles) and also, separately, the most shambolic mass I have ever attended (a very international congregation with an elderly Italian priest who spoke only halting english). On the other side, I also attended a daily mass at an American run church in Rome, which was very dignified and profound.

    My (perhaps silly) question to you is, what option would Catholic truth bloggers take for Budapest:

    – regarding tridentine masses: the SSPX (Austrian Province) are present, but only on weekends 1, 2 and 3 of the month. Our visit is during weekend 4. I am told the FSSP are also active in the city, but have no details.

    – as you’d expect, there are English language (novus ordo) masses for the local expats and tourists. Saturday vigil (Jesuits) and Sunday Morning (Diocesan).

    – St Stephens Basillica lists a “Great mass (in Latin)” on Sunday morning. What is this likely to be? I know the “Great mass” is a musical setting by Mozart. Would this service be a latin novus ordo, using Mozarts music? Or a Hungarian novus ordo, using Mozarts music + Latin prayers? I suppose there is no chance that this service is a missa cantata?

    – Interestingly, in Hungary you get Byzantine Rite Catholicism, as well as Latin Rite. I understand that the Pope who authorised this wanted Byzantine Rite masses said in Greek, but they use Hungarian instead. Whilst not obscuring the fact that we go to Church chiefly to Worship God and receive communion, would it be ‘worth’ visiting a Byzantine Rite service to learn more about the wider Catholic communion, or even out of simple curiosity?

    Thanks for any thoughts.

    July 25, 2013 at 1:01 pm
    • Petrus

      Gabriel Syme,

      In Which church is the Byzantine Rite ? If it is one of the eastern Catholic churches then there’s no problem attending this Rite. However, the Orthodox churches also use the Byzantine Rite, so check out the denomination and get back to us.

      July 25, 2013 at 2:53 pm
      • gabriel syme

        Hi Petrus

        Thanks for your response.

        The denomination is the Hungarian Greek Catholic Church, which is in full communion with our Holy Father. I have not identified a specific church/parish.

        Id be interested if you had any info on the Byzantine rite, even just for curiosity. Increasingly I am thinking one of the English language masses or the Basillica would be most straight forward.

        Turns out the local Jesuit priest who ministers to english speakers is from Translyvania! I will be disappointed if his name/title doesnt start with “Count”!

        July 26, 2013 at 11:40 am
  • leprechaun

    Madame Editor,

    What does it tell us about the good souls who frequent this blog, that they need to be urged, if not chivvied, to take a glance now and again at books that others have found really beneficial to their spiritual welfare?

    Might you not have been doing them a disservice in assuming that nobody was looking? Would that I had your powers of discernment.

    I understand that Groucho would not belong to any blog that would publish his contributions.

    The book was called “Humility of Heart” by the way, and here is a link to a free e-book version of it:

    God bless the new blog and all who sail in her.

    July 25, 2013 at 3:07 pm
    • editor


      Please don’t put the bloggers down. That they needed reminding to visit the Prayer etc threads when there was an occasional comment posted there serves, in my view, to underline the fact that such “spiritual” threads are surplus to requirement. If anyone wishes to ask for prayers, today, for example, for any intention whatsoever, they are welcome to ask on the lead thread. Advertising books and devotions, this is the stated place to be – read the intro at the top of the thread.

      With respect, Leprechaun, it is of concern that you appear to be so annoyed at my response; I claim no special gift of discernment but nobody needs a special gift of discernment to note that you seldom appear these days on our blog, even less often do your participate in discussions, and now that you have resurfaced, you expect to snap your fingers and have a new category provided on the blog to suit you. Anyone who is using the internet, and any Catholic who frequents this blog, knows all about the benefits of sound spiritual reading and where to look for solid books.

      You write as if we had no other means of publishing the information you wish and thus we require a fresh category. I reply that we have provided this General Discussion thread precisely for the purpose given at the top. To discuss issues not covered on the other threads, OR the blog introduction goes on to state: “Feel free, also, to share your favourite prayers and devotions. Whatever.”

      So THIS is your spiritual reading thread, Leprechaun. Enjoy!

      July 25, 2013 at 7:25 pm
  • 3littleshepherds

    I agree with you. If Torkay had been posting he would have had almost the whole blog to himself! He doesn’t know what he’s been missing.
    I’m no writer and I miss those who are writers.
    Leprechaun is always fun to read though, so maybe he’ll post a long list of books?

    July 25, 2013 at 5:14 pm
  • westminsterfly

    Below is some encouraging news – although the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is the most urgent issue, it certainly wouldn’t hurt to get our own countries consecrated. We need similar campaigns in Scotland, England and Wales.

    Dear friends,

    The waiting is over!

    I am delighted to be able to officially confirm that the Irish Catholic Bishop’s Conference will be proceeding with the SCNCI proposal for the Episcopal Consecration of Ireland to the Immaculate Heart of Mary next month on the 15th August the Feast of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary

    The Irish bishops will gather during the Annual Novena at the National Shrine of Our Lady of Knock to formally safeguard the Irish nation from the ongoing moral and spiritual crisis and the advances of the Culture of Death by officially placing Ireland under the protection of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Deo Gratias!

    This is truly a momentous day as the two year mission of the SCNCI comes to a successful conclusion and the imminent Episcopal consecration of the Irish nation to the intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary is set to spearhead the renewal of the faith in this land of Saints and Scholars.

    May I extend my thanks to everyone who made this possible, especially those who offered their Rosaries to win the grace for the bishops to proceed with this beautiful act of patronage to the Mother of God, the SCNCI workers who tirelessly promoted the mission, the donors who made it financially possible, our external advisors for their wise counsel, all our supporting organizations for their steady support, the committee members, and you, our subscribers who prayed for us and supported us.

    May I also honour those hidden victim souls who suffered interminably for the success of this mission in union with the Holy Souls in purgatory under the altar of the most High as depicted at Knock, to make up what was lacking in the mystical body of Christ on earth for an outpouring of such heavenly grace for the renewal of the faith in Ireland on this feast day of the repentant St Mary Magdalene.

    We also extend our great thanks to the Benedictines of Silverstream Priory, Stamullen, Co Meath for agreeing to offer our 100 consecutive Tridentine Masses from the 1st January this year for the souls Our Lady most desired to be released in honour of Archdeacon Cavanagh’s original century of Masses that spurred the heavenly Knock apparitions.

    Let us now set our face like flint in the confident expectation that Ireland will put her own house back in order against the ravages Culture of Death and God will fulfill His promises to her upon her return to her covenant with His Sacred Heart made in 1873, in the words of Blessed Pope John Paul II, to help Ireland “bring the light of Christ to the nations”

    Can you hear the chorus that is beginning in haste for the Great Renewal?

    “And the Lamb will conquer and the woman clothed with the sun will shine her light on everyone…Yes the lamb will conquer…!”

    Yes, please do send this fabulous news far and wide!

    Ad Jesum Per Mariam (To Jesus through Mary)

    Kind Regards and God Bless

    Simon Galloway (Chairman)
    SCNCI, P.O. Box 51, Claremorris, County Mayo, Ireland. | |

    If you have not done so already please sign our petition

    Short informational video by SCNCI

    July 25, 2013 at 6:18 pm
    • editor

      Thanks westminster fly but spiritustempore beat you to it a few days ago.

      And I repeat what I said at that time. While welcoming this news, it strikes me that the bishops will consecrate anything and everything, pontificates, Portugal, Ireland, you name it – anything and everything but Russia.

      Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!

      July 25, 2013 at 7:32 pm
  • 3littleshepherds

    St. John Eudes’ Salutation to the
    Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary

    Hail, Hearts most holy
    Hail, Hearts most gentle
    Hail, Hearts most humble
    Hail, Hearts most pure
    Hail, Hearts most devout
    Hail, Hearts most wise
    Hail, Hearts most patient
    Hail, Hearts most obedient
    Hail, Hearts most vigilant
    Hail, Hearts most faithful
    Hail, Hearts most blessed
    Hail, Hearts most merciful
    Hail, most loving Hearts
    of Jesus and Mary
    We revere Thee
    We praise Thee
    We glorify Thee
    We give Thee Thanks
    We love Thee with all
    our heart
    With all our soul
    And with all our strength
    We offer Thee our heart
    We give it to Thee
    We consecrate it to Thee
    We immolate it to Thee
    Receive it, and possess
    it wholly
    Purify it
    Enlighten it
    Sanctify it
    That Thou mayest live and reign
    in it now, always, and forever and ever.

    July 25, 2013 at 11:14 pm
  • 3littleshepherds

    Why did the prayer I posted go into moderation?
    Anyway, it took four or five times to even post it!
    The Blessed Virgin promised St. John Eudes’ “to give to all who recited it with devotion, desires to purify themselves more and more from all sorts of sin, in order to be more capable of receiving divine gifts and blessings.” It is said that numberless, almost miraculous graces have been obtained through this prayer, testifying to its efficacy.

    July 25, 2013 at 11:27 pm
  • 3littleshepherds

    My posts went to moderation.

    Ed: sorry about that – cannot explain it. Still getting to understand this new site. Have released them all.

    July 25, 2013 at 11:39 pm
  • editor

    Thank you for that litany, 3LittleShepherds, much appreciated.

    Now, on this evening’s local (Reporting Scotland) news there was an item, to be televised in full on Monday night, about a priest called Fr Paul Moore – read about him here.

    Another depressing scandal. This is, however, an opportunity for me to highlight the fact that anonymous sources are of no use whatsoever to us. I was given all the information in the clip tonight, and much more, actually, several years ago. However, I had to suffer the usual “I can’t tell you who I am, too dangerous, the bishop would be livid etc.” And as a result, I had to file under “can’t be used”.

    In fact, the scandal of Fr Paul Moore is common knowledge within the Diocese of Galloway. Over the years, a number of lay people have mentioned it to me, because (they said) the bishop not only bought this alleged paedophile (homosexual again by the ways folks, a male alleged victim was filmed, anonymously, saying his piece, voice of an actor spoke his words)… but, as I was saying, not only did the bishop buy him a house but he bought him a house near a primary school if my several sources (over the years) are to be believed.

    The programme is called Sins of the Fathers and will be televised on BBC Scotland on Monday next at 9pm. The journalist said he would be naming the names of those Benedictines who abused the boys entrusted to their care, and confronting them.

    How tragic. I’ve already heard from one priest who said that this kind of scandal / headlines affects all priests. It is very dispiriting indeed for the good priests out there who – despite having been trained in the modernist mould, through no fault of their own – are doing their best to live faithful celibate lives and really feel as shocked as the rest of us at these scandals. God help them.

    If only the Pope would stop playing around, travelling to juvenile parties and worrying about the materially poor and begin, instead, to do his job, get down to sorting out the filth in the Church and consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, as God wills him to do. I mean, how difficult can it be?.

    July 26, 2013 at 6:07 pm
  • 3littleshepherds

    For all those who haven’t read St. Leonard’s book “The Hidden Treasure Holy Mass” I recommend it. It was published by TAN.
    It will help you to appreciate attendance at daily Mass. Many people probably want to attend a daily Traditional Mass but can’t in their situation. This book will doubtless increase your fervor and cause you to pray everyday for the great, great grace of daily Mass.

    July 27, 2013 at 10:11 pm
  • Margaret Mary


    I’ve never heard of that book, so thanks. I wonder if it is available to download free (it’s surprising how many books are) I’ll check it out.

    July 27, 2013 at 10:15 pm
    • 3littleshepherds

      There’s a short preface to the American edition. I don’t know who wrote it but he recounts a story about St. Francis of Sales.
      In the winter of 1596 a portion of a bridge over the river Drance was washed away and people had to place planks over the broken part so that they could cross to the village of Marin, in which there was a Catholic Church.
      Heavy snows and severe frost made the boards very slippery, so that it became dangerous to attempt to cross. “St. Francis was not to be deterred, for, despite the remonstrances of his friends, hemade the perilous journey every morning, creeping over the icy planks on his hands and feet, thus daily risking his life rather than lose Mass.”
      I loved this story and asked a priest about. He said it’s called “the imprudence of the Saints” this risk that the Saints sometime take because they know God will protect them.

      July 27, 2013 at 11:09 pm
      • 3littleshepherds

        Also I think this is the kind of faith Bishop Fellay was expressing when he was dealing with Rome. If you go back and read his letter to the three Bishops he was saying that we should trust Our Lord in perilous situations.
        It’s strange because the priest who explained “the imprudence of the Saints” to me became a rebel!

        July 27, 2013 at 11:32 pm
  • Yorkshire Rose

    DISRUPTIVE CHILDREN AT MASS. I would just like to have peoples’ comments on this familiar problem. Now, I am referring to the 6 year-olds and upwards – not babies and toddlers. Occasionally, there are families whose children are fidgety, distracted and keep running in and out of the toilets during Mass. What to do about it? Do Priests nowadays feel that they ‘cant say anything’ in case they leave? Should other members of the congregation offer to help with children, or is that likely to be seen as interfering? The comment…”well, in my day it wasn’t like this…” doesn’t really help, as discipline (even in good homes) just isn’t what it used to be, and the standards of the 1920’s cant really be applied now. Of course, it is a lot worse if a Mass Group has to use a rented hall, as the layout is totally different. Can we have some examples of something that has worked please, and maybe this can be passed on to anyone having these difficulties. Thank you.

    July 28, 2013 at 5:11 pm
    • 3littleshepherds

      In one mission chapel I attended they marked off several pews in the back for parents with young children. No one seemed to mind but it might take time to become a custom. Usually parents are so distracted anyway that they feel they might as well sit with all the other parents and children.
      If there’s a water fountain in the church or rented space you might ask the priest to remind the children not to drink and drink out of the fountain right before Mass.
      I’ve been to many chapels and the priests usually do instruct the parents in their sermons.
      I definitely would not correct someone else’s child, that would cause problems.
      You could always post in the bulletin or on the wall that if anyone needs help with their child during Mass that there are volunteers. Let them ask you.
      Multiple age appropriate missals are good to offer, to use during Mass and then to leave. It helps for some children to have a different missal, something new keeps their attention.

      July 29, 2013 at 2:03 am
    • Anonymous

      Suffer little children to come unto me, who said that? No more to be said on the subject!!!!!!

      July 30, 2013 at 10:59 am
      • Athanasius


        I don’t think any of us would disagree with you. What we are saying is that parents should be encouraging this in their children during Mass, not allowing them to run riot and distract everyone else from going to the Lord.

        Little children are quicker on the uptake than adults give them credit for. Hence, if these little ones are unruly in Church it is generally because they have parents who don’t make much, if any, attempt to focus their minds on God.

        We speak of unruly children up to age 6 or 7, and that is bad enough, but I have seen children as old as 12 or 13 years sitting looking around them during Mass, obviously bored, without Missal, prayer book or rosary. That’s not suffering the little children to go to Our Lord, it’s making Our Lord suffer by encouraging childhood indifference.

        July 30, 2013 at 12:29 pm
      • 3littleshepherds

        In defence, I might add that alot of parents will tell you that their children are actually very well behaved at home. But just take them to Mass or even out in public and eeks! they totally become different children! And totally deaf to their parents!
        So sometimes parents have to suffer not only their children misbehaving but also knowing they are being a distraction and falling under criticism. Believe me some parents would actually appreciate a little help and would really like to be able to hear Mass in peace.

        July 30, 2013 at 9:35 pm
  • Athanasius


    I’m sorry to say that I do not believe there is a third party resolution to the issue you raise. The fact is that many parents who attend the Traditional Mass with unruly children in the age range you mention have adopted the liberal mores of the world in relation to how they raise their children. They simply do not have the mentality of the Catholic parents of old, nor, sadly, do they have the same reverence for the House of God.

    It’s always interesting to contrast those parents who have very quiet, controlled children with those who allow their kids to behave like wild animals. The contrast shows that correct parenting combined with sufficient concern for reverence in Church always results in well behaved children. The opposite, of course, is also true and all too often visible. The parents of such children need to take a long hard look at themselves and understand that they will answer to God for any neglect of duty on their part to instill the deepest reverence from the earliest age into their children. As the life of Little Nelly of Holy God demonstrates, it is quite possible for parents to help their children to become saints in infancy.

    July 28, 2013 at 6:53 pm
  • awkwardcustomer

    I have a question(s) about the forthcoming canonizations of Popes John Paul II and John XXIII.

    Firstly, have I got the following right? Canonizations are infallible and this derives from the infallibility of the Pope. The canonization process cannot affect this infallibility. In other words, a canonization cannot be rendered invalid if the process, which has developed over the centuries, is not adhered to. Sacraments can be rendered invalid if certain conditions – form, matter, intention etc – are not met. But this does not apply to canonizations. Pope Francis has the authority to declare both JPII and JOHN XXIII saints. End of. Traditionalists of all camps cannot say that these canonizations are false by pointing to changes in the canonization process.

    If these canonizations go ahead – December 6 seems to be the favoured date – as Catholics we will be obliged to believe that both popes are saints in heaven who are deemed by the Church to be worthy of emulation and veneration. For traditionalists, surely this will mean that it is possible to embrace and promote Vatican II and still please God to the extent of achieving sainthood. The implications of this are profound. To put it crudely, it will surely mean that God doesn’t really mind about the Council, that it is perhaps little more than a passing aberration, and that disaster isn’t just around the corner.


    July 29, 2013 at 12:31 am
    • editor

      awkward customer,

      Canonisations have been regarded as an infallible act due to the process involved. For example, the office of Devil’s Advocate was made an integral part of the process and it was, I think, Benedict XIV who said that without the office of Devil’s Advocate, beatifications and canonisations would be null and void. Pope John Paul II did away with the office of Devil’s Advocate (and of course only one miracle is required instead of three) so it seems logical that since the process involved in beatifications and canonisations has been changed so too, must the status. We have had the statement on this from the Catholic Encylopaedia Online on our website homepage ever since the announcement of the probably canonisation of Pope John Paul II, so you must have missed it. Check out the Encyclopaedia online and you can read it for yourself.

      Your final sentence identifies the motive behind the crime…

      July 29, 2013 at 9:13 am
    • Athanasius


      The difficulty I have with this issue is that if these canonisations go ahead, the pope will be declaring to the universal Church that these two predecessors of his are in heaven. For me, such a declaration impacts on Faith and the infallible teaching office of the Magisterium – the more so because it indirectly canonises the Conciliar revolution, which is the real objective behind these imprudently rushed procedures.

      At the end of the day, it matters little if the process has been proper or flawed, legally valid or void. If it goes ahead, which I doubt, then we would either have to conclude that infallibility does not after all encompass canonisations or that the two candidates are truly saints.

      In the case of John Paul II, it is utterly impossible in my opinion that the Church could ever declare him to have practiced the virtues, particularly the virtue of faith, to an heroic degree. In fact, it is much more likely in my estimation that this pope will one day share the inglorious posthumous fate of Honorius I.

      It is yet another sign of the present “diabolical disorientation” at the highest levels in the Church that one whose Pontificate should be under scrutiny to gauge the extent of its heterodoxy is rather being fast-tracked for canonisation.

      You know, it’s like living in a parallel universe today with these Vatican liberals, which is to say that all that was once orthodox is now unorthodox and all that was once condemned is now promoted. What are these people doing to Our Lord’s Church?

      July 29, 2013 at 11:28 am
  • awkwardcustomer


    I am already familiar with the argument that the abolition of the devil’s advocate renders canonizations invalid. Pope Urban VIII introduced a disciplinary law requiring the presence of the devil’s advocate during the canonization process, a law which any pope has the authority to amend, so I understand. But the act of canonization, which belongs to the pope alone, remains infallible, whatever the process, because the infallibility of canonizations derives from papal authority alone and does not depend upon the process.


    You said, “At the end of the day, it matters little if the process has been proper or flawed, legally valid or void. If it goes ahead, which I doubt, then we would either have to conclude that infallibility does not after all encompass canonisations or that the two candidates are truly saints.”

    I agree completely. May I ask why you doubt that the canonizations will go ahead?

    July 29, 2013 at 12:29 pm
    • Athanasius

      awkward customer,

      I doubt these canonisations will go ahead because I still believe that such declarations by a pope (touching on the universal faith) are infallible, and that God will not therefore permit Pope Francis to announce this particular travesty.

      Regardless of the process leading up to this canonisation, we must remember that Pope Francis would have to stand in front of the entire Church declaring to all that his predecessor, Pope John Paul II, (who offended so grievously against the First Commandment and Holy Catholic Faith when he kissed the Koran, participated in pagan rites and orchestrated the horrors of Assisi) is in heaven among the blessed, to wit all may feel free to seek his intercession and imitate his actions as a means to their own sanctification and salvation.

      So the question is really one of whether or not Pope Francis would ever be permitted by the Holy Ghost to declare such a thing formally. I don’t think he will. Interesting times ahead!

      July 29, 2013 at 1:46 pm
      • awkwardcustomer

        Again, I agree, but wish I didn’t, if you see what I mean.

        This is indeed a crucial issue. After all, the Holy Ghost did not prevent Pope John Paul II carrying out canonizations which we are obliged to believe are valid and infallible, despite the criticisms that have been made of them.

        July 29, 2013 at 3:22 pm
  • editor

    awkward customer,

    “Pope Urban VIII introduced a disciplinary law requiring the presence of the devil’s advocate during the canonization process, a law which any pope has the authority to amend…”

    Later, as pointed out already, Pope Benedict XIV, declared null and void, any canonisations which did not include the use of the Devil’s Advocate. Therefore, it seems logical – given that, contrary to what you say, theologians have been divided on the nature of papal decrees on canonisations, that with such major changes in the process, the status of canonisations in terms of infallibility, would need to be re-examined.

    I have never heard anyone claim before that ” the infallibility of canonizations derives from papal authority alone…” – I would be amazed if this were the case.

    July 29, 2013 at 1:08 pm
    • Athanasius


      It is an interesting argument the theologians are having right now, a dilemma indeed. But the point is that when the Pope makes that formal declaration in front of the entire Church, to be held by all as certain, then he most definitely would have to be considered as utilising his unique supreme authority as Pope to declare infallibly on a matter touching on the faith of the universal Church.

      It really is a dilemma for every right thinking Catholic, very controversial and very worrying. Still, I do not believe that Our Lord will permit it.

      July 29, 2013 at 1:57 pm
      • editor


        My elementary common sense tells me the following; if I am bound to believe that a pope who presided over the worst crisis ever to afflict the Church without doing a blessed thing about it’; a pope who, on the contrary, worsened the situation by encouraging pagans (Assisi) to pray to their false gods for peace in the world, while he blithely ignored Our Lady’s promise of peace following a simple consecration prayer; that a pope whose various acts (kissing Koran/being “blessed” by a Hindu woman/praying with animists and then saying something akin to “this is the best thing I’ve ever done” – quoted in L’Osservatore Romano) all in breach of the First Commandment… if I am bound to believe that such a pope is to be venerated among the great saints in the Church… then…

        I sincerely hope that you are correct and that Our Lord prevents it. Otherwise, I, for one, will have a very serious problem indeed. I’ve never spoken with a forked tongue in my life and I’m not about to begin if and when the canonisation of this man, arguably the worst pope in the history of the Church, is announced.

        July 29, 2013 at 2:53 pm
    • awkwardcustomer


      Do you have a reference/link to Pope Benedict XIV’s declaration on the Devil’s Advocate? I looked for it and couldn’t find anything online.

      July 29, 2013 at 3:04 pm
      • editor

        awkward customer

        I’m sure it’s in the link I provided above but Here it is again, for good measure…

        July 29, 2013 at 4:22 pm
  • Athanasius

    CROFTERLADY has asked me to publish the following link to a really interesting article. She’s having difficulty logging in.

    July 29, 2013 at 2:13 pm
    • editor


      I am insanely jealous. CrofterLady usually emails ME / MOI, to post links when she has difficulty logging in.

      Am I to consider myself redundant? Are you trying to usurp my authority?

      Still, better not get above myself in case I end up putting my foot in it, like the boss who noticed a new Seaman one day and barked at him to come into his office. “What is your name?” was the first thing he asked the new guy. “John,” the new guy replied. The boss scowled, “Look, I don’t know what kind of bleeding-heart, liberal pansy stuff they’re teaching Sailors in training these days, but I don’t call anyone by their first name. It breeds familiarity and that leads to a breakdown in authority. I refer to my Sailors by their last name only – Smith, Jones, Baker – that’s all.

      I am to be referred to only as ‘Master Chief.’ “Do I make myself clear?” “Yes, Master Chief!” “Good! Now that we got that straight, what is your last name?” The new guy replied: “Darling. My name is John Darling, Master Chief!” “Okay, John, the next thing I want to tell you is…”

      July 29, 2013 at 2:58 pm
      • Athanasius

        Yes, editor, you may eat your heart out. I have CrofterLady’s ear and you, it appears, have been ditched! In fact, she was emailing me about something altogether different and just happened to ask if I would post that link. I charged her an appropriate fee and did what I was bid, so to speak! Liked the joke. I think people with the name Darling really should consider a change by deed poll

        July 29, 2013 at 6:25 pm
  • editor

    N O T I C E . . .

    On the off chance that anyone’s missed the pre-publicity, there is to be an horrendous, no doubt, documentary on BBC television this evening at 9pm entitled Sins of Our Fathers. No further explanation required…

    July 29, 2013 at 4:31 pm
    • Athanasius


      I have decided not to watch that documentary because the BBC is the most anti-Catholic media institution in the world and I wouldn’t give it house room. These people are just looking for dirt to throw at the Church. The really hypocritical thing is that the BBC has recently been exposed as having had its own little crew of sexual perverts within the ranks for decades.

      July 29, 2013 at 6:22 pm
      • editor


        That’s one point of view and you are entitled to it.

        However, I will watch the programme because I wish to be as fully aware as possible about what has (is) going on in the Church. The fact that the BBC is hypocritical, doesn’t alter the truth of what they are reporting just as the fact that I am all too often uncharitable doesn’t alter the truth I speak when I denounce lack of charity.

        Perhaps you are right about the BBC wishing to throw dirt at the Church. I’m inclined to think they are typical news broadcasters just looking for a good story and a “good story” in the eyes of most, if not all journalists, includes sins of impurity. But, whether or not the BBC just want to throw dirt, the fact is, there is “dirt” to throw and that is to the shame of all those involved.

        July 29, 2013 at 6:32 pm
  • gloria

    I have been looking at various articles about canonization and infallability. My general impression was that it was a matter of opinion rather than infallability. Am I wrong in thinking that?

    Maybe I am being stupid or at least confused on this matter. Perhaps it is the modernist mindset that resounds throughout the Church today. The canonization process is a serious matter and must have consequences for the Catholic Faith. How serious is the investigation today into the life of the person put forward for sainthood. Without the devil’s advocate the process must be flawed.

    July 29, 2013 at 4:32 pm
    • editor


      You most certainly are NOT stupid. At what point in history have we had to even think about the saints being put forward for canonisation? NEVER!

      But, let’s hold fire on reaching a conclusion until awkward customer finds that original declaration from a pope (any pope) proving beyond reasonable doubt that canonisations are always infallible acts, whatever the process – or lack of it.

      July 29, 2013 at 6:34 pm
  • awkwardcustomer


    I was asking for a reference to the actual declaration by Pope Benedict XIV on the Devil’s Advocate. Without the original document, it is impossible to make an informed decision on the matter. Sorry, but that paragraph from the Catholic Encyclopedia isn’t enough for me, not in relation to such an important matter.

    July 29, 2013 at 4:44 pm
    • editor

      awkward customer,

      That’s an interesting response. Do you have an actual declaration from ANY pope on canonization and infallibility?

      July 29, 2013 at 6:14 pm
  • Thurifer

    Are there any declarations from the Councils (not Vatican II) about canonizations?

    July 30, 2013 at 1:58 am
    • editor

      I’m sure if that is the case, awkward customer will find one for us. Let’s see.

      July 30, 2013 at 7:52 am
  • Miles Immaculatae

    Can someone here advise me. It is causing me a lot of distress. I was reading this vocations article on the website of an SSPX seminary. It says ‘illegitimate’ men cannot be ordained priests.

    I am sure this must be a mistake.

    If it is true, there’s no chance I’ll ever be a traditional priest, because like millions of persons in Britain, I am a bastard.

    Of course, I’ll humbly submit to what ever the true traditional position is (although I would be truly devastated and inclined to resentment for the rest of my life. Even though they would have me, I wouldn’t have the option of going to a modernist seminary, because I’ve seen the light and I can’t go back to being a modernist.)

    If this is the attitude the society really take, they are going to have to turn away a lot, and I mean lot of good men in the years ahead. At times like this, can they really be that fussy? Not to mention cruel (I think this is something I will find potentially disillusioning).

    July 30, 2013 at 3:45 am
    • editor

      Miles Immaculatae,

      I’ve never heard that before, but then I’ve not had any reason to enquire (!) so I’ve emailed a traditional priest for advice. As soon as he replies, I’ll let you know.

      If all else fails, I’ll start a new Order (the Sisters of the Blessed Blogosphere) and you can be our Father Superior. Promise!

      July 30, 2013 at 2:45 pm
    • Athanasius

      Miles Immaculatae,

      I had absolutely no knowledge of this rule of the Church until you raised the question. I searched and found the following link. It appears to be true, although I will seek some clarification in the matter:

      July 30, 2013 at 3:28 pm
      • 3littleshepherds

        I was taught that illegitimate men could not be priests because, at least in former times, it could be used against them. Like if it were found out someone could spread it to cause the priest to be disrespected and ridiculed.
        Of course it is so common today no one thinks of it like this.
        I could be mistaken but I think there’s a priest and Saint who was illegitimate, but I can’t remember who it was.

        July 30, 2013 at 5:41 pm
      • Athanasius

        Miles Immaculatae,

        I just received this from a sound Traditional priest:

        “Yes, the general law of the Church is that illegitimate birth is an impediment to Holy Orders. However, a dispensation can easily be obtained (e.g., like St. Augustine) if there is no danger of scandal or disrespect to the Priesthood. So as long as the SSPX follows the normal discipline of the Church, a dispensation can be obtained — especially if the illegitimacy is not public.”

        By the way, I should also mention that St. Kentigern (Mungo) was also born illegitimate and he was ordained to the priesthood, so all is not lost!

        July 30, 2013 at 5:41 pm
    • editor

      Miles Immaculatae,

      I have just received the following reply from the traditional priest, to whom I sent a copy of your post above:


      That’s just an old article (1967). There are now (since 1983) no canonical consequences to illegitimacy. Even if a particular SSPX seminary rector were to insist on the discipline of the old code, it would nonetheless not be a problem if this gentleman (were) to apply and mention this fact. END.

      July 30, 2013 at 8:05 pm
      • Petrus

        I was aware of this law, I think the code of canon law (1917) listed illegitimacy as an impediment. I checked this out because my eldest son was born before my wife and were married, so I wanted to be sure before I started promoting the priesthood. I was told that if the parents of a candidate got married at some point then this legitimises the birth and there is no longer any impediment.

        The responses given by Athanasius and editor are also very helpful.

        July 30, 2013 at 8:18 pm
      • 3littleshepherds

        Also if a couple have their marriage annulled the children are still legitimate.
        Anyway this is a very dated scandalous subject considering all the other outrageously scandalous news we have to hear about priests today.

        July 30, 2013 at 9:14 pm
      • Elizabeth

        In my diocese a man was rejected as a student for the priesthood because he was illegitimate, or so the story goes. However another bishop accepted him and he was ordained. This man was later convicted of paederasty. This is not to say that one thing was caused by the other of course but maybe the first bishopsaw something in him that made him, the bishop, cautious.

        August 10, 2013 at 11:15 am
  • editor

    An Argentinian reader asked me to post this link – you can translate the page if you right click and select the option to translate

    And worry not – I thanked him for giving us such a wonderful pope – not!

    July 30, 2013 at 8:56 am
  • 3littleshepherds

    We were discussing the phrase “In Portugal the Dogma of Faith will always be preserved,etc.” last night. One of the things we were wondering about is if this refers to a future event, like maybe individual countries formally rejecting certain Dogmas.

    I wondered how it would come down, if it is in the future, to particular countries choosing this or that Dogma to reject and how Portugal or other countries would choose otherwise. Spouse said if the Pope does put forth a plan of synodality this may mean each country would have a separate legislative body in the future.

    Can anyone explain how this works with the Orthodox presently? Or how much power an individual “synod” or whatever might have, if of course the Pope does this in the future.

    July 31, 2013 at 9:28 pm
  • spiritustempore

    Talking of Fatima, I was shocked to see this from Fr Gruner concerning the Fatima Centre’s September conference in Niagara:-

    The Hon. Roberto Fiore, a member of the European Union Parliament, has often been linked to the Bologna Massacre, the 1980 terrorist bombing of the Bologna train station that killed 85 people. He is also characterized by some of the media as holding extreme nationalist positions that run counter to fraternal charity. Why has he been invited to address the conference?

    Roberto Fiore is a traditional Catholic, father of a large family and a staunch defender of the Faith. His “link” to the Bologna Massacre was wholly fabricated by those trying to cover up their own involvement. Some of these men were later convicted of fabricating false evidence against Mr. Fiore and sentenced to jail time. Mr. Fiore has also successfully sued scores of newspapers for defamation. Despite his complete exoneration and the exposure of the lies that sought to implicate him, some who are not well informed (or perhaps not well-intentioned) continue to raise the specter of the Bologna incident in connection with any public mention of Mr. Fiore. This is both sad and unfortunate. Our sympathy is with Roberto Fiore and his family, who must suffer unjustly because of the ignorance and irresponsibility of certain members of the media.

    As for “extreme positions,” it is now the case that anyone who upholds traditional morality, including traditional marriage, is liable to the charge of extremism. We must, in such cases, consider the source: a liberal political and media establishment whose agenda is diametrically opposed to Catholic teaching and all who would defend it. Mr. Fiore is concerned about the loss of national identity in Italy and other European countries as a result of the influx of immigrants from Islamic nations. There is nothing uncharitable about loving one’s heritage and desiring to preserve and protect it. This does not make one a “fascist” or “extremist.” We are pleased that Mr. Fiore is a friend of the Fatima Center.

    August 1, 2013 at 10:40 am
  • spiritustempore

    Fr Gruner neglects to mention that :-

    1. Roberto Fiore has been discussed in Parliament and his history is freely discoverable in Hansard.

    2. Fiore is a long-time associate of Nick Griffin and his political organisation is a close analogue of the National Front. They have also had common business interests for over twenty years, making money from immigration into the UK.

    3. Fiore and Griffin were founding members of the International Third Position, and admirers of the occult philosophies of Julius Evola.

    4. Rather than standing up against Islam, members of the ITP went cap-in-hand to Gaddafi for donations for their political struggles. Their political positions embrace Islam, rather than resist it.

    5. Fiore and his associates are close supporters of Bishop Williamson and his attacks on the integrity of the SSPX.

    I am no progressive liberal, simply a Catholic who hopes for a restoration of all things in Christ, and I disagree wholeheartedly with the hagiography served up by Fr Gruner on Fiore.

    It’s upsetting to see the Fatima Centre tarnished by such political associations. For me, this is the final nail in the coffin of any support I once held for the Fatima Centre. I will no longer trust in its integrity, nor will I support its mission further.

    August 1, 2013 at 10:50 am
    • Athanasius


      I agree entirely with what you say, although I suspect the support for Roberto Fiori on the Fatima website has been written up by John Vennari and not Fr. Gruner, who may not even know it’s there. You may recall the scandalous defence of Bishop Williamson that went up on the same website at the height of the controversy only to be taken down again when it was brought to Fr. Gruner’s attention. I firmly believe that extremist individuals are seeking to take advantage of Fr. Gruner in his older age and declining health to turn his Fatima Crusade into a revolutionary movement.

      I have emailed John Vennari and Joanna Swords at the Fatima Center several times about this latest business and I have tried to contact Fr. Gruner directly by phone. There has been no response to my emails and I was told that Fr. Gruner wasn’t available to speak on the phone. In other words, I have been blacklisted at the Fatima Center.

      If you look at the line up for the forthcoming September Conference you will see that it is unlike any other Conference that Fr. Gruner has hosted in the past.

      This one is chalk full of high profile people who are very much taken by conspiracy theory and/or revolutionary politics. Many are non-Catholic and so you can see the shift from the supernatural promotion of Fatima to this sudden preoccupation with worldly affairs. It’s all very sad.

      In addition to this, Fr. Paul Kramer, who is also listed to speak at the Conference, has lost the plot completely. He has become a vitriolic schismatic who now shares the opinions of Bishop Williamson and his extremist followers. He speaks appallingly about Pope Paul VI, and I do mean appallingly, and is also very anti-Bishop Fellay. It seems poor Fr. Kramer is the latest victim to fall in this the Devil’s Final Battle. I reckon Father has become to clever for his own good, a bit like the liberal reformers of the Church whose pride also closed their eyes to sanity. It just shows that none of us can ever become complacent or arrogant with the gifts of God or they may well be taken away.

      August 1, 2013 at 1:32 pm
      • spiritustempore

        On the subject of Fr Kramer, I remember his last appearance on this blog. He was under attack from some appalling harpies and really seemed to be struggling.

        I think he may be in need of prayers…..

        August 1, 2013 at 3:03 pm
    • editor


      I’ve copied your comment to the Fatima Center for the attention of Fr Gruner, so thanks for posting it.


      Our posts went up at the same time. I’ve now read yours and will copy it to the Centre as well. They need to keep being confronted about this and if they do nothing, that’s their problem, but we’ll have done what we can.

      August 1, 2013 at 1:38 pm
      • spiritustempore


        Well put – I couldn’t agree more with you.

        It seems that the Fatima mission is under attack from the usual political suspects. I hope and pray that this is just another Vennari initiative and that Fr Gruner knows nothing about it, although the positions adopted recently by Fr Kramer are extremely worrying.

        If so, this will be yet another example of Vennari using the Fatima Centre as a mouthpiece for his political associates and their counterfeit Catholicism.

        I hope and pray that Fr Gruner takes all necessary steps to protect the Fatima apostolate, including the severance of unwise associations.

        If not, his apostolate will be dragged into the political gutter and destroyed. The past history of those he is allowing to associate with the Fatima Centre guarantee it.


        Thanks for bringing this to Fr Gruner’s attention….I hope that he will take action.

        August 1, 2013 at 2:52 pm
      • spiritustempore

        Looking at the list of speakers, it’s hard to discern much that’s Catholic about them.

        Ron Paul, for Pete’s sake???

        Plus some unremarkable nobodies and one or two who seem to be on John Sharpe’s list of favourites, if the ISOC conferences are anything to go by.

        This isn’t about the faith or the Fatima mission – it’s about politics and those who seek to use the faith for their own political ends.

        Looks like Fr Gruner needs prayers.

        August 1, 2013 at 2:59 pm
      • 3littleshepherds

        Does Mr. Fiore promote revisionism? Currently? Are there any links to speeches that he has made or to his writings that show what his ideas are?

        I use to hear Bishop Williamson’s sermons about ten years or so ago and I was perplexed by them. The church was very large and packed and I remember the people in front of me got up and left, clearly unhappy with what he was saying.

        He didn’t talk about the Jews nor Israel by name that I remember. But he was saying 911 was staged and he wondered why everyone blame the “Arabs”. I was SO disappointed that he was not talking about the Confirmation or the Holy Ghost! Anyway I didn’t even realize what revisionism is. I didn’t know that some people think that every explosion in the world is caused by the Jews!
        So has Mr. Fiore himself written anything that shows what his ideas are concerning the Holocaust?

        August 1, 2013 at 3:28 pm
      • Athanasius

        Thanks editor, I think that’s really all we can do. Just keep sending the info to Fr. Gruner in the hope it gets past the censors who appear to want to prevent him from awareness of what’s going down.


        I share your observation that both Frs. Gruner and Kramer are in need of prayers right now.

        August 1, 2013 at 4:05 pm
  • spiritustempore

    Damian Thompson seems to be declaring allegiances too….

    Comment From Phil
    What chance is there of the lifting of mandatory celibacy for priests of the Latin Rite in our lifetime?

    Damian Thompson:
    That’s an excellent question.

    Damian Thompson:
    My instinct is that the Roman Church is so battered by scandals involving homosexuality that it’s prepared to contemplate ordaining married men as a matter of course.

    Damian Thompson:
    As you know, many married former Anglican clergy are serving as Catholic priests in this country, and I haven’t heard any complaints from the pews.

    Damian Thompson:
    Thanks everyone – and a big kiss to Mr Lindsay…

    August 1, 2013 at 12:05 pm
    • editor

      Yes, more and more, Damian Thompson is showing his true liberal colours. Thanks for this latest example, spiritustempore. Let’s hope those (especially clergy) who are fooled by his alleged interest in the TLM have their eyes opened, big time.

      And, er, I’m definitely NOT commenting on chosen form of affection in his final sentence!

      August 1, 2013 at 2:24 pm
  • spiritustempore

    Just noticed that Michael Matt is also speaking…has anyone told him who he’ll be sharing a platform with?

    August 1, 2013 at 3:07 pm
    • editor

      I suspect Michael Matt knows perfectly well with whom he is sharing a platform, spiritustempore, but why don’t you email him your excellent summary (the comment I emailed to the Fatima Center earlier) just to make sure? Your email will reach him on

      August 1, 2013 at 6:43 pm
      • spiritustempore

        I’ll do just that. Thanks, editor.

        August 1, 2013 at 7:10 pm
  • 3littleshepherds

    Well since Mr. Fiore is defended by the Fatima center and since he is a public figure would he please make a public statement making his ideas crystal clear.
    Does he reject all revolutionary methods?
    Does he reject anti semetism?
    Does he reject revisionism?

    August 1, 2013 at 4:20 pm
  • 3littleshepherds

    Did you delete my last post? What was wrong with it? It disappeared.
    All I wrote was that Fiore ought to publicly clarify his positions and tell us if he rejects revolution, revisionism, and anti semetism.

    August 1, 2013 at 4:47 pm
  • editor


    No I have never deleted any of your posts.

    The post above the one to which I am replying is timed at 4.20pm and is asking Fiore to publicly state his ideas. It’s there – it has not disappeared.

    August 1, 2013 at 6:23 pm
  • 3littleshepherds

    I’m sorry Editor. I can see my post with the link you sent. But if I log on and go to discussions the posts end at Athanasius 4:05.

    August 1, 2013 at 6:55 pm
  • Jacinta

    3LittleShepherds, that is strange because the same thing happened to me right now on the Technology & Catholic Family Life thread. I had just posted a comment and when I went back to look at it again it wasn’t there. I thought I’d try “refresh” and sure enough, it was there after all.


    I am very concerned at what you are telling us about the Fatima Center & politics. I am a great supporter of Father Gruner, so I hope this will be put right. The enemies of Fatima would love to get at him.

    August 1, 2013 at 6:59 pm
  • spiritustempore


    I know – it would be truly tragic if Fr Gruner’s apostolate was polluted by association with revolutionaries.

    I’m praying that Father simply hasn’t realised the nature of the people seeking to associate themselves with him, and will take steps to distance the Fatima Centre from people whose track record and associations are very public indeed.

    If not, I fear for the Fatima apostolate.

    August 1, 2013 at 7:13 pm
  • spiritustempore


    Sorry – I wasn’t able to reply directly to your post…..

    Fiore founded and heads Forza Nuova, the Italian version of the BNP headed by his great friend and long-time business associate, Nick Griffin.

    Here’s a video that FN themselves put together last month. It will give you an excellent idea of what they’re about. You might want to turn down the sound on your computer as, once the artfully shot images of historic popes fade, the sound track turns to black thrash metal, screeching “You Hate Me!” in German.

    The far-right metal scene is another money-spinner for Fiore and his former close associate, Massimo Morsello (deceased).

    The banners held by the FN demonstrators demand repatriation of immigrants and Italy only for those Italians who share blood and culture.

    You might notice the influence of Codreanu and Evola in the imagery….I’ll post more info separately.

    August 1, 2013 at 7:39 pm
  • spiritustempore

    Here’s the link:-

    August 1, 2013 at 7:40 pm
  • spiritustempore

    ….this one shows the links assiduously built by Fiore and his associates over the past 20 years. Forza Nuova appears at 3 mins 07.

    You’ll notice the International Third Position symbol (a circle bisected by a cross) in the flags and symbols of each European nationalist party. Fiore is also a founding member of the ITP.

    August 1, 2013 at 8:18 pm
  • Yorkshire Rose

    CHILDREN AT MASS. Thank you all for your comments. Well, there can be many reasons for children being disruptive at Mass and also for the (apparent) lax attitude of parents. Firstly, the Mothers of large families are often permanently tired! So, they need compassion, not criticism. The under-five’s cannot be expected to be quiet. Sometimes, there is only one Catholic parent, so they have to cope alone. Also, some children suffer from this Attention Deficit Syndrome, and it can be very difficult to treat. That aside, all children nowadays are subjected to constant noise and chaos – even at school. They are never allowed to have ‘quiet time’. Therefore, they cannot suddenly ‘unwind’, as they are over-stimulated. Tut-tuts and sour looks from the ‘church elders’ will only make things worse. Parents get stressed and tense, the children pick it up, get more disruptive, and it becomes a vicious cycle. So, what to do about it.

    PRIESTS need to offer more support to all. Those who criticise are being extremely uncharitable, and need correction! This kind of ‘harassment’ should not be ignored. Souls could be lost, so it is a very serious matter and will have to be answered for by all concerned. If they need to speak with parents, then do so PRIVATELY! Perhaps a section of the Mass Centre could be kept for the children and the parents can help them as a group. A few parishioners could take it in turns to be a ‘minder’ to help parents. They might not get a single prayer said, but doubtless will be enriched with graces for their labours. I believe that praying to people’s Guardian Angels is a great help, and everyone can do that. It’s a group problem, so it needs a group effort.

    Finally, we should bear in mind what St Therese did in her convent at Carmel. She was greatly distracted and irritated by an elderly nun clattering her rosary beads and generally being very noisy! For a time, she was very cross about it, but it then occurred to her to ‘offer it up’ and she gained great merit thereby. We can do the same!

    August 3, 2013 at 1:31 pm
    • Athanasius

      Yorkshire Rose,

      That’s as good a defence of bad and irreverent behaviour in Church as I have heard. Sadly, it doesn’t hold water.

      The problem is not one of a combination of parental tiredness and child hyperactivity, as you claim. Rather, it has its root in ill-disciplined family life at home.

      The old adage applies as much today as it always has: spare the rod, spoil the child.

      Attention Deficit Syndrome is just a modern liberal tag for bad behaviour, an excuse for negligent parents. It didn’t exist in the days when the children all went to Mass together with their school and the teachers sat on the end of the pews while the headmaster walked up and down monitoring the situation. There wasn’t any Attention Deficit Syndrome in those days!

      Toddlers are a different proposition, these can easily be kept quiet with a bag of sweeties and other little distractions. I am not, however, in favour of play pens full of toys where parents can take their noisy kids. This kind of novelty is unheard of in the Catholic Church, although not so uncommon in Protestant buildings.

      My mother raised five of us and I can tell you that there was no Attention Deficit Syndrome allowed. We were well trained from the earliest age in our prayers and in the reverence due to God in His House. We were also made fully aware of what to expect if we misbehaved. We knew that threat to be very real and so we simply did not misbehave. That wisdom of the parents of old, many of them with huge families, is long lost, I’m afraid.

      As regards offering up the distractions these dysfunctional Catholic families cause during Mass, I’m sorry to say I’d rather offer them up. Ordinary distractions I can live with, such as a baby gurgling or mumbling quietly to itself. I can even live with rattling rosaries and people whispering the prayer responses of the Mass. But I draw the line at wanton disrespect for the House of God on the part of adults and children who are old enough to know better.

      August 3, 2013 at 3:45 pm
      • 3littleshepherds

        Maybe it’s the adults attending Mass who have attention deficit disorder? hehe. Sorry.

        August 3, 2013 at 6:30 pm
      • Eileenanne

        It was a very bad idea IMHO for teachers to take responsibility for children at Sunday Mass. It happened when I was a child and I would have preferred to be at Mass with my parents. Parents are already undermined by schools taking on too many of their responsibilites. We don’t need more of it at Mass which should be a family affair. It also turns Mass into a school event so we can’t blame young people who discard Mass along with their school uniforms when they are teenagers.

        I am opposed to corporal punishment for children. The very idea of a grown up being unable to help a child learn how to behave in Church without hitting him fills me with horror.

        If you don’t mind mind me asking, how many children do you have Athanasius?

        My practical solution? Turn the “cry chapels” some parishes have (which I dislike and would never have used) over tor those who do not wish to share the Church with young families.

        August 16, 2013 at 8:03 pm
    • 3littleshepherds

      I can’t remember seeing any children so bad during Mass that I’d not go there, so it must be a problem specific to your area. Also is your priest not saying anything?

      The SSPX priests in the Chapels I have been in give really good instructions. The worst problems we have are people going to the restroom constantly throughout Mass.

      I thought Yorkshire Rose wanted practical suggestions for a problem that already exists.

      August 3, 2013 at 6:04 pm
  • Margaret Mary


    “But I draw the line at wanton disrespect for the House of God on the part of adults and children who are old enough to know better”

    Thank you so much for this. .I’ve read your reports before about the lack of discipline in the SSPX chapel in Glasgow and I want to thank you for the warning. I can’t stand badly behaved young people (as you say toddlers are a different thing altogether) but reading that there is such dreadful irreverence and bad behaviour among older children in the church at Renfrew Street would completely put me off going there on any regular basis if at all. I’m just amazed that the priests tolerate it.

    I’ve tried Sacred Heart a few times although not recently, but I think anyone thinking of transferring to the EF should go there, as the parents there do seem to have their offspring under control, in my experience. I couldn’t stand the mayhem you describe, and I agree with you totally that it’s all about discipline at home. Like you I am sceptical about the Attention Deficit Syndrome.

    August 3, 2013 at 5:10 pm
    • Athanasius

      Hang on there, folks! Who said anything about the SSPX in Renfrew Street being awash with unruly children? I didn’t mention St. Andrew’s in Renfrew Street. Yes, we have the odd issue there, exacerbated by the tiny size of the church, but it’s hardly an unbearable problem and the priests have been pretty good at keeping matters from getting out of control

      I was addressing the issue in general as a modern plague of liberal parenting. There are some good Traditional parents on display with well- behaved young families, but, sad to say, too many who are very lax with discipline. My belief is that this is a problem across the board today.

      August 3, 2013 at 6:46 pm
  • Thomasina

    I’m just popping in to put in a word for Sacred Heart. It’s a beautiful church and I can’t remember noticing any bad behaviour with kids, young or older. I do worry that with Fr Dunn away on Sabbatical the archdiocese may try to close it down or put an end to the EF there, so the more who attend the better.

    I agree with Athanasius that there’s nothing worse than being distracted during Mass, so I suggest he and others who are disenchanted with the SSPX switch to SH and enjoy peace of soul during the Holy Sacrifice.

    August 3, 2013 at 6:07 pm
  • Yorkshire Rose

    Thank you for your interesting comments.

    August 3, 2013 at 9:10 pm
  • Yorkshire Rose

    May I give you a scenario for your consideration. A girl about 9 years. She is prone to ill temper, fits of rage and constantly disobedient to her parents. She gives little attention to prayer and is more than a bit distracted at Mass. She has been dismissed from a good school for being unruly and unmanageable. She comes from a good family, devout parents, and sisters who are model children. So, what went wrong with this child? And who is she? She is Leonie, the sister of St Therese. There were very good reasons for her terrible behaviour (unknown to most people), but she went on to be a nun in the Visitation Order and was a holy religious there into her 70’s. She is now being considered for Beatification. It does NOT do to judge rashly, and we must remember the story of the ‘Pharisee and the Sinner in the Temple’. Which one are we?

    August 3, 2013 at 9:22 pm
    • Athanasius

      Yorkshire Rose,

      You present one example from the life and times of St. Therese and her family. I’m quite happy to accept one-offs like this. Clearly, there was something amiss with Leonie at that time, but this solitary example can hardly be used as justification for the widespread disgraceful behaviour we’re discussing here.

      August 3, 2013 at 10:50 pm
  • Yorkshire Rose

    I would further comment on the following. I have noticed that many of the ‘elders’ in Mass Centres are the first to start chattering soon after Holy Communion. The minimum 10 minute thanksgiving is not observed. Blethering away about all sorts of twaddle – totally unnecessary. If these folks are the same as those who say they were ‘brought up properly’ then something has gone wrong somewhere! Moreover, it is generally the 70 plus age group who engage in the after-Mass gossip and detraction. So again, they cannot claim the moral high ground, and denigrate children and modern day families. As mentioned, children nowadays have to cope in a very noisy world and there is NO escape from it. Not everyone can take on home-schooling, and even then there is still other distractions and noise in the world generally. These are simply very different times to those most of us were brought up in, and we have to try and understand this. A true spirit of charity and compassion will help a great deal with all these difficulties, and I would suggest we all start by spending more time looking in the mirror, than looking at others around us.

    August 3, 2013 at 9:39 pm
    • 3littleshepherds

      I know what Athanasius means but then again like Yorkshire Rose points out, Leonie was different. And it seems that families often do have one or two children who have more trouble during Mass. So I think it’s a good thing to try to find practical ways to at least offer some help.

      Perhaps the children of the Chapel could pray for each other. Also I’m sure children in various foreign missions would pray for the children at home if a request was made.

      August 3, 2013 at 10:05 pm
    • Athanasius

      Yorkshire Rose,

      You refer disrespectfully to others as “elders,” accusing them of detraction, idle gossip and irreverence towards the Blessed Sacrament. Then you move on to lecture about avoiding the Pharisaical spirit and practicing instead a true spirit of charity.

      I’m sorry, your “these are different times” excuse doesn’t justify ill-disciplined behaviour in Church and your assault on the characters of those who say so does you no justice at all.

      August 3, 2013 at 11:06 pm
  • Yorkshire Rose

    The above link gives all the information on the difficult life of Leonie, which is very interesting and it does highlight that even in the best of families, problems do occur.

    August 3, 2013 at 10:12 pm
    • editor

      Yorkshire Rose,

      Thank you for your comments on this; the reminder of little Leonie Martin is apposite.

      In fact, it reminded me of a conversation I had some years ago, with a neighbour, a mother of eight (I think – seven or eight). One of her sons became a priest – he is still a priest in Glasgow.

      When I asked her what it was like with so many children in the house, were they all like one another or what, she replied on the button “There’s no two of them alike: they’re like chalk and cheese.”

      Sometimes when talking about discipline, especially in a “good old days” context, we forget that each child is a little person. All different. I do believe that sometimes parents need to be stern, of course. But that may take a different form with different children.

      As I know from teaching, disciplining a group of youngsters with all different personalities, faults and failings, is hard work and nobody gets it right all of the time. I doubt if Athanasius’s mother would claim that she always got it right. I know mine didn’t. In fact, she really blotted her copy book when she refused to let me go to the pictures with a school friend towards the end of my Primary School days, all because it was Good Friday! I was appalled! “What’s that got to do with anything?” was my pagan reaction and my friend – a monumentally lapsed Catholic (which state I informed my mother I would enter at the first opportunity) just didn’t know what to make of it all. I don’t know if she went to the pictures that day but if she did, it wasn’t with moi. I was at home, furious with my mother and determined to find another religion without delay. Any religion, as long as I could get to the cinema as and when…

      And there is one more thing – although I understand Athanasius’ point about “sparing the rod” – or rather NOT! the fact is that his mother probably didn’t have to put her threats of corporal punishment into practise. But for those families where corporal punishment was routine, there has sometimes been a price to pay, for example, in terms of later inability to control temper. I know of more than one family where young men in particular, having been brought up with corporal punishment, are very quick tempered, and on occasion have reacted with their fists when annoyed at another adult. Their communication skills appear to be poor and they don’t know any other way of dealing with someone who annoys them. I could expand on this from my teaching experience but to avoid Social Services breathing down my neck – won’t!

      For the record, though, folks, don’t believe everything you read in Athanasius’s posts. Let me tell you a wee story about him – the “flog ’em, beat ’em” image of himself which he seeks to project is miles away from the reality.

      He is always very VERY kind to my two little nephews, and they love him to bits. Their father is not a Catholic so isn’t always at Mass. On one occasion in particular, when the elder was very small – say four or five – he had been very restless during Mass and had to be taken out to the back by a (very stern!) auntie, his mother being lost in mystical contemplation. After Mass, we passed Athanasius in the corridor, so I winked in clandestine manner at said Ath and pointed out that this young lad had been very naughty during Mass, what did Ath think of that, isn’t it awful, his poor mother doing her best… etc etc.

      Athanasius’s response? He handed him a shining pound coin, ruffled his hair and told him he was a great wee man.

      What is he LIKE? He’s a big softie where weans are concerned, that’s what he’s like!

      August 3, 2013 at 10:49 pm
      • Yorkshire Rose

        Aw, thank you for that insight on Athanasius… I wont tell anyone! I only encourage a spirit of charity and compassion among us. The Blessed Martin’s would never have criticised anyone – especially those with family problems. So, please God, let us do the same.

        August 3, 2013 at 11:12 pm
      • Athanasius


        If there’s a sudden rush of kids around me on Sunday looking for pound coins, you’ll be getting the bill for it! Thanks for destroying my big bad guy image!

        August 3, 2013 at 11:25 pm
      • Yorkshire Rose

        Well, it will all take time of your purgatory dear boy, so don’t complain! ha ha. I would respectfully draw everyone’s attention to the life of the Blessed Martin’s and to Leonie. Let us follow their wonderful example of charity and compassion, and all will be well. God bless.

        August 3, 2013 at 11:30 pm
      • 3littleshepherds

        You must have loved movies your whole life! You were just talking about crying over one.
        (Mickey Rooney in Boy’s Town still makes me cry).

        August 4, 2013 at 12:30 am
  • Athanasius

    Actually, I’ve just remembered a true, and funny, story. My next-door neighbours have a wee boy of two years, a wee bag of energy. Well, he’s taken to coming into my garden for the sole purpose of soaking everything in sight with the garden hose, which is quite powerful. He absolutely loves my garden to such an extent that I dare not enter into it during daylight hours if he’s around because he kicks off and his dad has to pass him over the fence to get peace.

    The really funny part is that he came out of the front door with his mother a few weeks ago just as I was rounding the corner. When he spotted me, he ran towards me in the street shouting “daddy, daddy.” Apparently, he thinks daddy is the name he should use for all men. Well, you can imagine the looks I was getting from other neighbours as they passed by! Imagine the gossip!

    August 3, 2013 at 11:43 pm
  • Yorkshire Rose

    Ha ha ha! Love it!

    August 4, 2013 at 10:28 am
  • Athanasius


    Do a Google search for Marcellino. It’s an old black & white movie about a baby taken in a raised by some Franciscan monks. It’s a fantastic story, but just make sure you have the hankies to hand!

    August 4, 2013 at 12:29 pm
    • 3littleshepherds

      Thank you for the movie recommendation. I’ll look for it.

      August 6, 2013 at 8:13 pm
  • gabriel syme

    I enjoyed the latest edition of the news letter. I have had a look online, and eagerly await my paper copy for a more substantial read.

    The responses from ++Tartaglia – in relation to (i) enforcement of Canon Law and (ii) what he believes about the Catholic Church – interested me in particular.

    I felt the Bishops responses were rather “powder puff” and typical of the touchy-feely “Church of Nice” which is failing in Scotland in 2013.

    The Bishop could only manage to state that he was “inclined” to believe the Catholic Church is the Church of Christ.

    I myself would be “inclined” to ask him if he might ever manage to get past his inclinations and actually make a firm and unambiguous statement, one way or the other.

    Additionally, the Bishop says that those who act publicly in contravention of Catholic values should “consider” whether they should receive Holy Communion or not.

    If discipline is to be left to the dissenters themselves, and local ordinaries will not enforce Church law, then I would like ++Tartaglia to “consider” why his position even exists in the first place.

    Bishops are supposed to be leaders; if they will not lead, what use are they?

    August 6, 2013 at 11:37 am
    • editor

      Gabriel Syme,

      You have me worried – the newsletters were posted out at the end of July so should have reached you by now. I’ve already had feedback in form of letters and phone calls so I know they’re arriving south of the border.

      Will you let me know when yours arrives? Assuming it does… It’s already very late.

      August 6, 2013 at 9:11 pm
      • gabriel syme

        Hi Editor,

        Yes, no problem – I will let you know when I get it.

        My postal service is not very efficient, but usually everything gets here in the end!

        In the (relatively short) time I have been on the mailing list, I have never had problems before, so hopefully this is no more than a wee delay!

        August 7, 2013 at 1:40 pm
  • gabriel syme

    Do any better-informed (than me!) Vatican watchers have any comment on ++ Guido Pozzo being moved back to Ecclesia Dei, again to act as secretary?

    Fr Zs blog is portraying this as a mildly positive development, as it means there are now two pro-SSPX-reconciliation Archbishops (Pozzo, and the vice-presicent of Ecclesia Dei, Di Noia) versus just one who is anti-SSPX (Mueller of the CDF, the body Ecclesia Dei operates under).

    Or, instead, does this shuffling simply represent the “churn” which all large organisations experience, in terms of personnel moving about?

    I often think Fr Z has worthwhile things to say, although I do feel the backside has recently fallen out of his “Read Francis through Benedict” gambit. (Though he seems to be persevering with it).

    August 6, 2013 at 11:59 am
    • 3littleshepherds

      Has anyone found out if Bishop Fellay is still speaking at the Fatima Conference?

      August 6, 2013 at 8:21 pm
      • editor


        I think we can safely conclude that Bishop Fellay has withdrawn from the Fatima Conference, possibly in view of its almost ecumenical nature. His name is no longer listed as a speaker, at least, if it’s there, I can’t find it.

        August 6, 2013 at 10:56 pm
      • editor


        Seems that Bishop Fellay has withdrawn for practical reasons although he may yet appear or another Society priest take his place.

        August 8, 2013 at 11:24 am
    • Josephine

      Fr Z is not my cup of tea. I know he doesn’t tolerate much disagreement with his own views, and I’ve read on here that he’s banned people in the past, so I never visit his site any more.

      I am interested in the moving back of ++ Guido Pozzo to Ecclesia Dei though but not sure how to read it. My gut instinct is that it shows a desire of the Pope to make friends with the SSPX. I do hope so and maybe restore the talks. We sure need them in the Church right now.

      August 8, 2013 at 7:06 pm
  • 3littleshepherds

    Thanks Editor

    I really can’t find out what Mr. Fiore believes. All I can find are the stated objectives of his political party. But definitely like Ron Paul he’s talented in building a base. I would be pretty sure Ron Paul is speaking at the conference inorder to increase his base and spread his message.

    I can also see how the Fatima Center seeks to attract attention of people and leaders to Our Lady’s message. And that if they can get high profile speakers more people will at least hear the message and the media will give them free coverage.

    But on the other hand the SSPX priests have always taught me to always investigate situations and to try to find out the facts. So I do think that on the far right there are the so-called revisionists. I’d like to know if Mr. Fiore believes in the ideas of revisionism, rejects them or is indifferent to them. I personally do not like Bishop Williamson’s revisionism.

    I remember reading how difficult it was for Catholics during the years of the second world war. I think it was the writer Bernanos when he broke with Action Francais, that lamented there was no place for a Catholic to go, no Catholic Army. Only Communists and Nazis and he didn’t even like Franco. And Belloc was aghast that it was Protestant England and America that had to save all the Catholic Nations during the war. (I think it was Belloc).

    I hope Bishop Fellay does send a priest to the conference. One who can clarify just what Catholics can and can not support.

    August 8, 2013 at 6:26 pm
  • spiritustempore

    You might find this interesting, 3littleshepherds:-

    Inspired by Evola and Codreanu, Roberto Fiore would have a catalytic influence on the new ideological direction of the NF.

    After its dramatic increases in membership and success at the polls in the strife-torn 1970s, the NF had seen its support draining to the new Conservative government of Margaret Thatcher, which vigorously addressed industrial unrest, rising crime and weak immigration control.

    This weakening and isolation of the NF had a radicalizing effect on its leaders and their ideology.

    A younger generation of university-educated NF activists, represented by Nick Griffin, Derek Holland and Patrick Harrington, felt that the NF’s soggy mixture of reaction, concern over law and order and the immigrant threat to jobs and homes lacked any theoretical sophistication.

    While the older NF leaders John Tyndall and Martin Webster were tainted by British neo-Nazism, the young men embraced the ideals of Italian neo-fascism.

    Roberto Fiore and his colleagues helped the NF forge a new militant elitist philosophy that foreswore electoral strategies in favor of educating and training a fanatical, quasi-religious “New Man” in select cadres for a national revolution.
    By 1983, this group—led by Griffin, Holland and Harrington—had broken away to form the NF “Political Soldier” faction.

    Cadres similar to Iron Guard legionary “nests” became the organizational unit, and training seminars were held at the Hampshire country house of Rosine de Bounevialle, the publisher of the Catholic anti-Semitic magazine Candour, originally founded by A. K. Chesterton.
    Backed by Fiore, the “Political Soldiers” published a new journal, Rising (1982–85), which emphasized the spiritual and cultural basis of a new social order.

    A revival of the countryside and a return to feudal values reflected Codreanu’s prewar attack on the decadence and materialism of urban life; nationalist communes were planned in upland areas of Britain.Archaic woodcut art juxtaposed knights and rural idylls with consumerism and modernity.

    Evola’s most militant tract was discussed, especially his call for a “Great Holy War” fought for personal spiritual renewal paralleling the physical “Little Holy War” on a material plane against national or ideological enemies.

    Like the hero of the Bhagavad Gita, Christian Crusaders, ancient Norse warriors and Roman legionaries were all united in the Aryan struggle for selftransformation and a nobler reality.

    Some indication of this struggle was given in a paean to Franco Freda, Italy’s most notorious neo-fascist terrorist.

    Derek Holland published ‘The Political Soldier’ (1984) as a manifesto of the new NF elite of racial nationalism to counter “the forces of Evil swamping the entire globe in an ocean of Filth, Corruption and Treason.”

    Both the global dark age and the past failures of the NF could only be remedied by the Political Soldier, a “New Type of Man.”

    Holland evoked Codreanu’s Legionary Movement of the Romanian Iron Guard, with its cult of death, as the outstanding example of political soldiery in the twentieth century: “[Men] willing to sacrifice anything and everything for the victory of their Ideal.”

    The Islamic Revolutionary Guards of Iran were also cited as fanatical, spiritual warriors with a similar contempt for death. Evola’s anti-modernity and warrior ethics of the “Holy War” led the NF “Political Soldiers,” like their Italian models, to embrace pro-Islamic positions, with public support for the anti- Western, national revolutionary regimes of Muammar Qaddafi and Rûhollâh Khomeini in Libya and Iran.

    By the end of 1989, Nick Griffin, Derek Holland and the Italians had finally left the NF to establish the International Third Position (ITP).

    August 9, 2013 at 12:21 am
    • 3littleshepherds

      Thanks for the info.

      Of course it’s absolutely contradictory to be inspired by Evola and to also be a Traditional Catholic. How did the writer determine that there was a connection between Fiore and Evola?

      Also you mentioned in the videos you posted that one might recognize Evola in the imagery. How? Sometimes I can see in the nomenclature of far right wingers what sounds like the occult, but other than the blatant pagan ceremonies of the 1930-40’s films I don’t know how to recognize it.

      August 9, 2013 at 4:24 pm
  • spiritustempore


    Fiore is known to have met and associated closely with Julius Evola – he’s often referred to as one of Evola’s disciples.

    Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke covered the subject in ‘Black Sun’, also this book, ‘Social and Political Thought of Julius Evola’ by Paul Furlong (Fiore is mentioned several times in the book in association with Evola’s ideas….here on Page 16:-

    Also this, from Gornahoor Press, with which Fiore has links:-

    August 9, 2013 at 9:21 pm
  • sixupman

    A question:

    Ex Fatima Prayer – “…… the most precious Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ really and truly present in every tabernacle of the world, …….. .”.

    Can we still hold that to be true as to tabernacles?

    August 10, 2013 at 9:58 am
    • editor


      We have to presume that it is true. After all, we presume it is true in traditionalist chapels, don’t we?

      None of us is equipped to make such judgments, so we must presume that every tabernacle in the world contains the Blessed Sacrament.

      Indeed, a very recent report is circulating in which Our Lord Himself seems to be telling us not to worry about this matter of the Real Presence.
      Click here to read about a possible Eucharistic Miracle in Mexico…

      August 10, 2013 at 2:08 pm
  • 3littleshepherds

    St. Philomena was martyred on this day. Tomorrow, August 11, is her feast day. The Universal Living Rosary Association is a wonderful way to honor her and will bring you incredible graces.
    Can someone post a link for the Living Rosary?

    August 10, 2013 at 4:12 pm
  • Marietta-Anne


    Is this the link you mean?

    August 10, 2013 at 4:17 pm
  • gabriel syme

    Did anyone else see these comments made by Pope Francis regarding the Eastern Orthodox Liturgy:

    In the Orthodox Churches they have kept that pristine liturgy, so beautiful. We have lost a bit the sense of adoration. They keep, they praise God, they adore God, they sing, time doesn’t count. God is the center, and this is a richness that I would like to say on this occasion in which you ask me this question. Once, speaking of the Western Church, of Western Europe, especially the Church that has grown most, they said this phrase to me: “Lux ex oriente, ex occidente luxus.” Consumerism, wellbeing, have done us so much harm. Instead you keep this beauty of God at the center, the reference. When one reads Dostoyevsky – I believe that for us all he must be an author to read and reread, because he has wisdom – one perceives what the Russian spirit is, the Eastern spirit. It’s something that will do us so much good. We are in need of this renewal, of this fresh air of the East, of this light of the East. John Paul II wrote it in his Letter. But so many times the luxus of the West makes us lose the horizon. I don’t know, it came to me to say this. Thank you.”

    Might this offer hope / encouragement regarding the concern over Pope Francis views on the traditional Catholic liturgy?

    August 10, 2013 at 8:40 pm
    • editor

      Gabriel Syme,

      I would like to think that the answer to your concluding question is “yes” but I can’t help wondering if the Pope tends to give the “right” (expected) response to any given audience. Time will tell.

      August 10, 2013 at 9:10 pm
    • Athanasius

      Gabriel Syme,

      I too would like to hope this reflects the Pope’s yearning for the more Traditional liturgy of the Church. Perhaps that’s why he’s moved Mgr. Pozzo back to Ecclesia Dei. I’m a bit wary of his reference to Dostoyevsky, though. He was a troubled soul!

      August 10, 2013 at 9:42 pm
  • Soggy Flannel Wringer

    There will be no consecration of Ireland to the Immaculate Heart.

    What a joke.

    There’ll be a consecration to the Immaculate Heart on the 15th, but it won’t be Ireland itself that’s consecrated, and only one bishop in Ireland will be doing a consecration.

    So what ever it is he’ll be doing, it will be generally pointless.

    August 12, 2013 at 9:46 am
    • editor

      I just have to say “hi” to anyone with the courage to choose Soggy Flannel Wringer for their username.

      You are my type of guy!

      PS agree about the “joke” – in fact, it’s worse; it is really quite an insult to Our Lady.

      August 16, 2013 at 11:14 pm
  • Athanasius

    Soggy Flannel Wringer,

    I agree! This is typical of the hierarchy in Ireland – faithless and gutless. It may sound harsh but it’s true. The Bishops of the Philippines put them to shame.

    August 12, 2013 at 10:45 am
  • 3littleshepherds

    Prayer for the intercession of His Grace Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre

    O Lord Jesus Christ, King of Kings, we implore Thee in Thy Divine Kindness to finally bring to light the holiness and justice of Thy humble servant, Marcel Lefebvre. His earthly life was met with ignominy and scorn, in pattern to Thee, and all for Thee, O Christ, for Whom he so valiantly fought, and Whose rights and Kingship he defended. We beg Thee to manifest his holy intercession for us by granting us the petition we ask in his name, (that of…) O Mary, Immaculate Queen and Mediatrix of all graces, please obtain for us from thy Divine Son that special grace by which thy servant Marcel may be honored and glorified with the title of Saint.

    Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory be.

    August 12, 2013 at 4:02 pm
  • gabriel syme

    “In October, at the Vatican, Pope Francis will consecrate the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary”

    August 13, 2013 at 10:56 am
  • Eileenanne

    When I come on to the blog I often see from the number of comments that there have been additions since I last looked. However, they are not always at the end of the thread. While the “Reply” function is useful in many ways, I often cannot find where new contributions have been made, especially in a very long thread like this. Is there a way of jumping to the new posts that I just haven’t figured out yet, or do others have the same difficulty?

    August 14, 2013 at 9:28 am
    • editor


      This is really only an issue when a thread goes beyond the first page. After 100 (I think) comments a thread automatically goes onto page 2, and then clicking on the link on the sidebar doesn’t work. I will check with the support people at WordPress but I’m guessing that’s just one of the downsides of having such a lengthy thread of more than one page. It is annoying, so I will check if there is a way round it.

      August 14, 2013 at 9:39 am
      • editor


        Earlier today I checked with the support people about this, and they investigated briefly, before telling me they would add this to the “WordPress Project” where, I presume, they deal with new problems arising from the software as they are brought to their attention. Apparently it is something to do with the JavaScript and when a thread goes onto a second page, the default kicks in and the thread returns to top. So, there is nothing we can do about it at the moment.

        At least we know it’s in hand. Patience, folks!

        August 16, 2013 at 11:12 pm
  • Crossraguel

    An observation which I was going to post on the Help thread, though I didn’t seem to have a comment box to do so.

    I presume the limit for the number of replies to individual posts has been lifted or significantly extended. Almost exclusively reading threads via a mobile device, after the first few replies it simply becomes unreadable, since the narrower comment first splits larger words, then becomes a column of meaningless letters.

    August 14, 2013 at 12:06 pm
    • editor


      This is a case of “can’t win.”

      When the blog was originally set up, we allowed only three replies. Then we started getting complaints that there was no REPLY button at certain posts, so I decided to lift the limit and allow the maximum, ten replies.

      Now, you tell me that it becomes unreadable via your mobile.

      So, what do I do? Cater for mobiles OR put computers at the top of the list?

      Personally, I refuse to use my mobile for anything except making phone calls and texting where necessary (detest texting).

      But, it seems a lot of people use their phones for the internet as well.

      If nobody states any preference, then, I will reduce the number of replies to five – as a compromise to suit, I hope, Crossraguel and other mobile device bloggers.

      Over to thee and thou…

      August 14, 2013 at 3:03 pm
    • 3littleshepherds

      Can you download the WordPress App to your phone? It’s a really cool free app. Then you can follow Catholic Truth, the reader is excellent! On my phone it takes a little while to load the threads but it’s really easy to read. No more single column of letters. Plus you’re suppose to be able to comment in the reader.

      August 14, 2013 at 5:49 pm
      • 3littleshepherds

        I tried posting in the reader and it worked well. I could actually edit my post which I’ve never been able to do before on my phone. I’ve always just closed my eyes and pushed post because I couldn’t scroll back in the comment box.
        Also with this app all of the long thread’s comments are on one page. You can post anywhere by tapping on someone’s comment.

        August 14, 2013 at 8:56 pm
  • 3littleshepherds

    I was going to post this for the Feast of The Assumption but the thread is closed. (I’m in a different time zone)

    Act of Love to Mary
    I love thee, O Mary, with all the love of
    The Eternal Father Who has created thee so lovely. I love thee, O Mary, with all the love of The Word Who became incarnate in Thy bosom. I love thee, O Mary, with all the love of The Holy Ghost whose temple thou hast become. I love thee O Mary, with all the love of The angels and the saints, with all the love of St. Joachim, St. Anne, St. Joseph and St. John.
    In all the places of The earth where a soul tells thee she loves thee I unite myself to this soul, O Mary, and to all the Ave Marias that shall be said in the entire universe. Amen.

    August 16, 2013 at 12:17 am
  • pewcatholic

    Have just read updated ‘About Us’ page. What’s a Glasgow kiss?

    August 16, 2013 at 6:18 pm
    • editor


      THIS is a Glasgow Kiss… I can’t properly hear the very brief dialogue but I don’t think it offends in the “crudity” category – I sincerely hope not since I’ve just linked to it on the About Us page!

      August 16, 2013 at 6:57 pm
      • pewcatholic

        Hmm. Maybe I’m in the right diocese after all.

        August 16, 2013 at 9:03 pm
  • Magdalene

    As I understand it, a Glasgow Kiss is ‘Wan wi the heid’.

    August 16, 2013 at 9:56 pm
  • Yorkshire Rose

    CUSTODY OF THE TONGUE! What do we understand by this term, and where do we, as Catholics, fail in its practice? After-Mass chat (gossip) often includes very uncharitable comments about others. The ‘anti-child’ mentality is commonplace. I know many people who feel this is more prevalent among trad Catholics than others. Why is this so, and what can we do about it?

    August 18, 2013 at 11:56 am
    • editor

      The best thing to do, Yorkshire Rose, is not to participate in any such uncharitable talk. Lead by example. And if you struggle with such silence, then offer it up for the Holy Souls to whom, I know, you have a great devotion.

      Of course, if any kind of uncharitable remark is made directly to you about others, it would be brave and commendable were you to defend that person, especially parents of young children, but if you are not directly involved and merely aware of this lack of charity, silence, offered up for the good of souls, is, I think the best way forward.

      August 18, 2013 at 2:25 pm
  • Yorkshire Rose

    Thank you for that. Good advice indeed. However, my intention in mentioning this problem is to draw more attention to it in general. The children at Mass issue has been discussed recently, and I would now like to make known a solution which others might like to copy.

    A few ladies in a Mass group observed a couple of Mothers struggling to cope and ‘under attack’ from uncharitable persons. They decided to offer their help to the Mothers concerned each Sunday. The offer was readily accepted and now several children have a ‘minder’ at Mass who helps them with their prayers and leads them to Communion. The Mothers can then devote their time to the younger offspring and also say their own prayers. The difference has been truly amazing.

    I would like to suggest that this practice is adopted in other places, and also encouraged by the Priests. I have heard of many families (nationwide) who have left Society Mass Centres because of the uncharitable treatment they received. Some now attend LMS centres where they get on just fine. Why does it happen in Society Mass Centres, and can the Priests do more maybe?

    August 18, 2013 at 5:24 pm
    • Josephine

      Yorkshire Rose,

      I can see that seems a good idea but I remember when we were all taken together as children to sit at the front with a teacher from school who had us repeat prayers after her, at various times, usually before and after Holy Communion. My own view is that the children should be with their parents, attending Mass as a family. Maybe your idea would be a good temporary arrangement but with a view to getting them to sit at peace with their families.

      August 18, 2013 at 5:30 pm
      • Yorkshire Rose

        Well, those days are long gone! And they are not coming back. With a large family – 10 or 12 children of varying ages – it can be a real problem for a lone Mother. Some people do not have a Catholic husband to come with them and help, so they are under even more pressure.

        Then, in a rented hall or room, it is often not possible for a family to sit together – and that’s when it gets critical! Without proper benches and kneelers, it is difficult for even adults to sit and kneel properly. Regular hall chairs do not lend themselves to this purpose. This is a situation where the Mother of a large family will need help and support from those around her.

        August 18, 2013 at 5:50 pm
  • Magdalene

    Yorkshire Rose,

    I think your solution is a wonderful idea. Having suffered the lack of charity you describe when I was a young mother, I have nothing but sympathy when I see young mums trying to cope. How awful for them if, after trying their best and struggling (and it is a struggle!!) to get young children washed and dressed and ready for Mass, they are met with hostility when they finally get to church. Those children are the future of our church. I intend to mention your suggestion to a group of women in my parish and hopefully we can reach out and help.

    August 18, 2013 at 7:52 pm
    • Yorkshire Rose

      Hello Magdalene, thank you for your comments. Well, I have only recently come to realize what a common problem this is for people; and one that seems to remain unnoticed by laypeople and priests.

      Certainly, mention the formula to others as I am sure it will help. For a harassed Mother to know that there are a few ‘child-friendly’ people in the congregation who will ‘mind’ one of their children is such a great relief. They then relax and can follow Mass better, and everyone benefits. The ladies who have been helping in this way state that they ‘lose nothing’ even though they are unable to follow Mass ‘word perfect’. Their attention is given to the children (whose Angels look upon God) and in so doing gain much more as a result.

      I have seen it work and I can recommend it.

      August 18, 2013 at 10:22 pm
  • Augustine

    Just testing whether I can post…

    August 18, 2013 at 8:02 pm
  • Ignatius1970

    Testing, testing 1…2 😉

    August 18, 2013 at 10:15 pm
  • editor

    Augustine and Ignatius,

    “Testing” is the understatement of the year. The pair of you are testing in the extreme!

    1) Ignatius, you need an avatar

    2) Both of you need to get posting – start by reading the letter from the Liverpool reader about the scandal of the heretic priest invited to preach to pilgrims coming to venerate a priest-martyr. You couldn’t make it up. Make no comment, please on the idiocy of the exchanges with the atheists. Ignore ,ignore, ignore and stick with the topic. Please and thank you…

    August 18, 2013 at 10:25 pm
  • Magdalene

    May I share this with you –

    No matter how far away from God you are, turn to him, seek him, love him and you will find peace

    God invites everyone; he wishes to love everyone into his Kingdom. Our relationship with God is manifested primarily in the way we relate to other human beings. We meet God when we meet one another across the divisions of our churches: we exclude God when we refuse to communicate with one another.

    We can never merit God ‘s love by our own unaided efforts. “Think of the love that the Father has lavished on us, by letting us be called God’s children; and that is what we are.” (John3:1) Since we are God’s children then as a Father He wants us whole and happy and if we are not, He wants to heal us.

    We have tended to forget the all-embracing healing love of God the Father in our ministry of healing, and have seen it as a kind of divine love that does not penetrate our ordinary world and lives. We have played down Christ’s revelation of His Father as someone to bring us healing. Why? After all, it is His Father’s will that we are made whole. We emphasise instead the pagan notion of a pagan God who sends suffering as a punishment for our sins, so that Christ became His Father’s and our scapegoat for our sins. Why? We have come to look on suffering as a means of ‘meriting’ or ‘gaining’ the Father’s love, as if He did not love us enough already for who we are. Why do we do this when we are part of His loved creation? It is because it is a sin not grace, death not life, fear not love which dominates our religious thinking.

    Remember God has sent his Holy Spirit to help you, so open your mind and heart each day to the Holy Spirit who is your companion. Begin your day with a quiet awareness of the Holy Spirit in your life. You will soon become aware of a type of inner peace which you have never experienced before.

    August 19, 2013 at 11:29 pm
  • gabriel syme

    Regarding the discussion of unruly children being allowed to disrupt mass, whatever happened to the idea of “cry baby chapels”. Where I grew up (St Augustines, Coatbridge) has one of these at the back. It was essentially a glass box inside which families with young kids could sit. They could make as much noise as they wanted in there, and yet no-one outside could hear it. The mass proceedings were piped in via speakers on the wall.

    The worst example of behaviour during mass I have seen was in St Aloysius Garnethill. A group of adults were present with a very young child. One of the adults, a young women in her 20s, kept taking the child out to the side an letting her run about. This caused a frequent, repeated distraction and the lowest point came when the child was allowed to use the all souls side-chapel as a playground, while the woman sat on the ground twiddling her thumbs. Neither could have been less interested in the mass.

    I was quite angry over this (a failure on my own part) and wondered why they even brought the young child, if they werent going to teach her to behave.

    It eventually struck me that the child was brought along purely to keep the young adult woman occupied during mass, just as some parents brings toys for their children.

    August 20, 2013 at 10:36 am
    • editor

      Gabriel Syme,

      I never liked those cry chapels for the very reason you later give – that children should be taught to behave at Mass, not taken to a place where they can freely make noise. Teaching takes time and patience, and the co-operation of the wider community. I have little patience (with great respect) for adults who complain about children at Mass. Obviously, children who are truly unruly, running about as you describe, or screaming should be taken out by their parents and helped to calm down, but I am very sceptical about those adults who go on about this issue, certainly where I go to Mass where there is NOT a major problem as some have suggested; my patience is limited, not least because some years ago I offered to switch places with one of those complainants (I sit at the very front) so that he would not suffer the distractions of which he complained – but he refused my offer.

      I think it is dreadful to make families with small children feel unwelcome. I understand your expressions of annoyance – that is understandable in the situation you describe, and certainly the adult you describe playing with the child should be shot at dawn, but I think she is probably in a minority. Generally speaking, parents try to keep their children quiet and it is no easy task with toddlers. I like to try to be understanding of parents, certainly where I go to Mass where they have to be up at crack of dawn with long journeys to get to the Traditional Mass, and the last thing they need is a squad of daft bachelors and spinsters lecturing them on the desirability of corporal punishment. As more than one parent has said to me “damned if we do, damned if we don’t – everybody’s an expert on child-rearing especially those who don’t have any.” Spot on.

      August 20, 2013 at 11:12 am
      • gabriel syme

        Hi editor,

        I agree with what you say, I think that is a realistic, fair and balanced atttitude.

        You are dead right that families with young children should not feel unwelcome – such families are the lifeblood of the parishes.

        Babies are naturally noisy creatures, and there is nothing wrong with crying / gurguling / hooting and their other repetorie of noises. This is just babies being babies.

        The only thing I resent is parents making children the centre of attention or encouraging them to play. Instead they should be encouraged to take an interest on what the priest is doing or saying.

        I like it that at St Andrews parents remove very noisy kids for a short while, if they are not for calming down. I have also been impressed that many kids there are sporting childrens missals, or other child-orientated religious books. These can provide an activity but one which is very relevant / appropriate and also has learning outcomes. This is much more appropriate than giving them toys.

        I think the schemes which have been discussed – where other parishioners “lend a hand” to parents – are an excellent idea.

        Certainly, as someone who is in future likely to be a father bringing (God willing) children to mass on his own, I would certainly appreciate such support.

        PS – interested about what you say about families travelling far to reach Church. Is it fair to say that the Glasgow Church supports the west of Scotland, not just Glasgow?

        August 20, 2013 at 12:32 pm
      • Yorkshire Rose

        Yes, all fair comments. Babies and toddlers – they will make noise and for them I feel ‘cry chapels’ are one answer. However, most trad Mass centres would not have the room to install these unfortunately.

        Children’s Mass Books are fine, but an adult needs to help the child follow them. Now, if you have a Mother with a babe in arms, a toddler, and a couple of 6 or 7yr olds who start fidgeting – just what can she do? That’s when help is needed.

        (Another solution – put the ‘old fogies’ in a fenced-off area! And no tea & bikkies if they misbehave)

        August 20, 2013 at 12:44 pm
  • Yorkshire Rose

    CHILDREN AT MASS. Thank you all for your most constructive comments. The reason I have brought the subject to light is that I do know of a couple of families recently who have had terrible problems. I have since learnt of others in the past who also had difficulties, and left Mass centres. Now, our first concern here MUST BE FOR THE LOSS OF YOUNG SOULS, and my aim is to make everyone MORE AWARE and more compassionate! I will just highlight the salient points and if these could be borne in mind and also passed onto others for their information.

    1. This formula has been put into practice in a Mass Centre and it is WORKING WELL. A few ladies have offered to ‘mind’ a child at Mass (there is a large family and only one Catholic parent). The atmosphere has calmed down and all the tension has disappeared. These ladies’ good example has resulted in others being ‘more attentive’ to the family. (One little girl was coughing and sneezing and an elderly gent found a pack of tissues for her!) The ladies concerned really look forward to caring for their ‘charges’ and helping them recite their children’s prayers.

    2. REALLY ASTONISHING! A couple of the ‘elders’ who had previously been complaining bitterly and committing ‘SINS OF THE TONGUE’ (right after Communion), have now stopped doing this and seem to have realised the gravity of their attitude. Kind words and smiles have replaced this.

    3. Now, all this has been achieved by one person caring about another’s problem and deciding to DO something about it. So, I am really talking about a ‘change in attitude’.

    4. Most families have to now cope with:

    a) A long journey to Mass.
    b) Mass Centres can vary from a roomy church, to a cramp, grubby little hall. In the latter, there’s no choice about seating, as everyone is squashed in like sardines. (Cabin Fever!)
    c) More than 3 children require help with supervision – one person cannot do it alone.
    d) Nowadays, children are surrounded by noise and chaos, even at school. So, it is extremely difficult for them to ‘switch off’ and sit quietly.

    N.B. There is absolutely NO point in people going on about “…well, in moi day…” Those days are long gone, and they are not coming back. In the past, life was calm and orderly. Now, it is a war zone and we all have to help each other as best we can. The Devil will exploit this situation to his advantage, and in the case of a Mass Group, he will be trying desperately to drive children and families away from their Faith. We can either help him or hinder him. And this applies to Priests as well as the laity.

    Finally, St Therese, in the silent enclosure of Carmel, faced exactly this problem. An elderly Nun always made a lot of noise in chapel and it made St Therese very cross indeed. Rattling of rosary beads, turning of pages, coughing and spluttering! However, one day, she decided to offer up these terrible distractions and thereby earned great merit. We can do the same.

    August 20, 2013 at 12:10 pm
  • gabriel syme

    I am experencing a gremlin / bug on the site, its not a big deal, but just mentioning it for the webmasters info:

    The first time I try to post after logging in, I always get a screen saying “sorry that message could not be posted”. This always leads to the text I have typed being lost. This happens every time I log in.

    Of course, I am wise to it now and so always copy what I have typed, meaning I can simply re-paste it and carry on, after the error occurs.

    Not a complaint – just letting you know!

    August 20, 2013 at 12:41 pm
    • Miles Immaculatae

      Me to. I have not been able to post with my WordPress account and my avatar for a while.

      August 20, 2013 at 5:03 pm
    • editor

      Gabriel Syme

      Would you give me the following information, which the support staff say I need in order to work out what the problem is here (you are not the first to have that comment message)

      1) would you send me a copy of one of your rejected comments
      2) Tell me which thread you were typing the comment on
      3) possibly help if you could specify if you were replying to a particular blogger, who, at what time his/her post, so it can be tracked.


      August 20, 2013 at 5:28 pm
    • Augustine

      I’ve tried posting again but with no luck. So I have no idea whether this comment will get through…

      August 23, 2013 at 9:12 pm
  • Petrus


    I couldn’t agree more with what you say. I don’t think it is a problem in our church. Certainly babies cry, but most parents are sensible and take the baby out if they are making a huge noise. However, mothers (and fathers) shouldn’t feel the need to get up and go out the second the baby starts making a noise.

    What IS a big problem is that despite polite requests from the priests, a number of people continue to sit at the end of a row right net to the aisle. Instead of moving up, the expect mothers, fathers and young children to clamber over them. I think this is outrageous and is much more of a hassle, not to mention uncharitable, than any behaviour I’ve ever witnessed by a child.

    I’d also like to say a word about corporal punishment. I am not against a parents’ right to smack their child. I have smacked my own children. However, if a parent is doing their job properly then the need to smack a child should be very rare. Some children do not respond well to smacking, so a “one sized it’s all” approach is inappropriate.

    An effective parent/teacher should command respect without the need to resort to smacking. I believe that children naturally love a parent/teacher who is firm, but fair. Having said that, smacking is a means of discipline that can be effective, but it’s use should be rare.

    August 20, 2013 at 5:43 pm
    • Yorkshire Rose

      Well, nowadays if a parent is found to have smacked a child, they can risk being prosecuted by Social Services and their children taken away from them! It HAS happened to people. The children can then be ‘re-homed’ in foster care or even adopted with no appeal by the parents possible. Even the best of parents are too fearful of using smacking, as it can be misconstrued and backfire badly on them. As I said, nothing is normal nowadays – we are in a war zone, and the simple remedies of the past cannot be applied now.

      August 20, 2013 at 5:53 pm
      • Petrus

        Yorkshire Rose,

        It is legal for a parent to use reasonable force.

        August 20, 2013 at 6:06 pm
      • editor


        That’s my 90 year old mother’s excuse anyway but I’ve warned her – once the bruises start showing I’m phoning ChildLine…

        August 20, 2013 at 6:59 pm
      • Yorkshire Rose

        Ah well now. What is ‘reasonable force’? The Law these days can’t seem to agree what reasonable force a householder can use against a violent thug who breaks into their home at the dead of night; so they will certainly struggle in judging a parent who gives a sharp smack on the legs to a kid.

        The general tendency is to condemn parents who smack, and that makes people afraid and very reluctant to do so.

        SS seem to go from one extreme to the other. On the one hand, they are too hard on parents who use a limited amount of corporal punishment. And on the other hand, they often ignore or overlook the most dreadful cruelty and abuse. There have been several cases in the news recently. Then one hears the dreaded “lessons must be learned”… I have been listening to that one since the early 70’s, and lessons are NEVER learned!

        August 20, 2013 at 7:07 pm
      • editor

        I think you can rest assured, Yorkshire Rose, that Petrus would not be drawing the attention of the authorities. He adores his little boys and is unlikely to administer anything but the lightest of “smacks”.

        August 20, 2013 at 7:12 pm
      • Yorkshire Rose

        Ah, I’m sure that’s right. It’s just that I want to make the point that many parents feel intimidated these days about even modest amounts of chastisement of children. Their confidence is undermined I feel. I have heard of cases where a kid says something at school and it is misinterpreted and reported to SS unnecessarily.

        On occasion, I’ve seen a child with a parent in a supermarket and they are in absolute hysterics. Yelling their guts out and nearly turning purple. The parent just ignores the child and I am quite certain it is because they are simply too afraid to administer the much-need sharp smack to ‘break’ the hysterics. Oh, it really is a dreadful spectacle, and no-one dares intervene in case it brings recriminations.

        August 20, 2013 at 7:23 pm
      • editor

        Yorkshire Rose,

        I agree – you are absolutely correct there – there is a real fear of recriminations in this era of “children’s rights”.

        Not that my mother cares – she says “Phone ChildLine – see if I care…”

        What’s she LIKE?!

        August 20, 2013 at 7:36 pm
  • editor

    Unbelievably, Pope Francis is set to announce the dates of the canonisation of Pope John XXIII and Pope John Paul II – click here to read more

    August 20, 2013 at 11:01 pm
    • gabriel syme

      It is a real mistake for Francis to waive the usual devils advocate examination for these cases. It shatters the credibility of the whole affair and strongly suggests that the canonisation is ideology-driven.

      August 22, 2013 at 12:40 pm
  • Miles Immaculatae

    Catholic Herald columnist and blogger William Oddie has written an attack against what he calls ‘ultra-traditional extremists’.

    It’s a typical neo-Catholic rant. He accuses us of being ‘Protestant’ etc.

    It’s worth reading (available on the website). It is a fierce condemnation of the ‘Fatimist’ position.

    August 21, 2013 at 4:09 pm
    • editor

      Miles Immaculatae,

      I’ll look for that link asap – thanks for the tip off. Next time, bring us the direct link or risk being called a numpty!

      August 22, 2013 at 12:17 am
      • gabriel syme

        I saw your rebuttal of Oddies article on the Catholic Herald Website, Editor.

        You made good points, especially regarding the problems of consecrating the world, as opposed to specifically Russia.

        (Your comparisons with the consecration of a specific church, or the baptism of a specific infant, were very useful).

        I often read the Herald (though less so, of late) but I have never been a fan of Oddie, he is quite the little Englander (an Anglican convert I believe).

        August 22, 2013 at 1:01 pm
      • editor

        Thanks Gabriel Syme, I first heard Fr Gruner give the example of a church consecration – he made that point very well in one of his talks in Rome, that a bishop will consecrate THIS church not every church in the world, etc. Makes it very clear.

        William Oddie is a very confused man indeed, God help him.

        I posted the article by John Salza on there which explains why Russia must be named in the Consecration. I thought I’d post it here as well for the benefit of our bloggers.

        August 22, 2013 at 10:04 pm
  • WurdeSmythe

    I heard Fr. Gruner at a conference a few years ago in which he mentioned the number of innocents killed in the WWII death camps. He said it wasn’t his area of specialty and he didn’t know the facts well enough to speak on it; he then went on a sidebar for several minutes duration about how if the six million number were false, declaring it to be true was a great problem. It was odd that he would speak for so long about something that he’d just said he didn’t know much about; it was odd that he expounded on the problem of fraud only regarding one camp of the discussion and not the other. I found the entire lengthy, unbalanced sidebar so off-putting that I haven’t bothered to listen to Fr. Gruner since; I’ll take my Fatima news from sources less inclined to serve as mouthpieces for revisionists. That Father is now serving as apologist for Fiore I’ll take as confirmation of my previous decision to look to other sources.

    August 21, 2013 at 5:17 pm
    • editor


      I’m really disappointed to read your thoughts on this. I believe that Fr Gruner is being used by the people around him who are involved in this geo-political stuff and I’m sorry that he appears not to realise this.

      However, I have very good reasons for saying that I believe Fr Gruner is a privileged soul – I hesitate to use the word “saint” because he’s still alive and the devil doesn’t give up trying until fifteen minutes after we’re dead (according to, I think, St Francis de Sales – somebody said it anyway, it’s not my long awaited original thought!)

      If you ever make it to Scotland I’ll fill you in on the detail, but I really do hold Fr Gruner in the highest regard. Like you, however, I’m very disappointed that he seems to be getting mixed up with political zealots.

      August 22, 2013 at 12:16 am
  • Magdalene

    Ms Editor,

    I would be really grateful if you could clarify something for me.

    You have made it abundantly clear that you will not tolerate rudeness or nastiness towards any atheist on this site, even if their comments are insulting to Catholics or, worse, to God himself.. However, your letter to Bishop Wiliams was extremely blunt and, to my mind, rude at points. If we are expected to extend respect to atheists, should it not be extended to everyone? Otherwise there are double standards.

    August 21, 2013 at 10:43 pm
    • editor


      Thank you for the opportunity to answer such an important question. “Double standards”? Moi? Nay! Before I begin, however, do try to imagine what kind of reply you’d get if you demanded that the Blog Editor of any of the Catholic or secular newspapers explain why he is enforcing the rules of their respective blogs. I can tell you, they’d suggest you sling your hook! I, however, am pleased to respond to your terrific comment. Here goeth…

      Firstly, I have never said that I will not tolerate rudeness or nastiness only to atheists. Nobody should be nasty or rude to anyone. I would be amazed if any Catholic thinks there is ever a case for being nasty or rude. In fact, my first warnings were to the atheist. As for any nastiness towards the Church or God Himself, believe me when I see anything that fits into that category, I delete it, with a bold type reprimand. Due to our policy not to moderate posts, these go online before I see them but the minute I see them, I delete anything approaching blasphemy. I have just deleted a post in moderation from a new atheist seeking to comment on the Pope Francis thread. It was facetious. Not blasphemous. Still, she’s gone. Finito.

      Back to the atheist Arkenaten: she ignored my several requests to stick to the topic. I warned her more than once that I would be forced to moderate her posts. Then, to my dismay, I read posts from Catholic bloggers responding to her which were very far removed from the kind of response I would have expected from them – including certain responses to me which fitted into the category of “darn cheek”. Noticeably, these respondents did not comment on the topic. That was very revealing indeed. Suggested they really wanted to enjoy a good fight. Not at all acceptable, here, I’m afraid.

      Even after my request to ignore the atheist’s posts they continued – not to try to answer her questions or respond to her points calmly and in a spirit of charity, (any such posts were NOT removed) but in a tit-for-tat exchange to see who could be the most unpleasant. And further, even when I pointed out that I would remove the responses to the atheist as well as her comments if all persisted – they did persist. The “Darn Cheek” file grows thicker by the second. Irritating, not least because I happen to know that those self-same bloggers would not – for a second – dream of tolerating such contempt from me, were our roles reversed.

      Being forthright and plain speaking is a different thing from being rude and nasty – I was very forthright in my comments to the atheist. Do you think I should have blacklisted the atheist for ignoring my instructions, while allowing the Catholic bloggers to do the same with impunity? Really? Would that have been fair?

      I do not believe that my letter to Bishop Williams was rude at all. Not remotely. One reader remarked on the phone that we are now at the stage where it is just not possible to be too forthright to bishops. We’ve done the deferential bit and it doesn’t work. If, however, you wish to quote me anything in my letter that you consider to be rude or nasty, I will be interested in your opinion.

      However before you go looking for a quote, please remember that there is a massive difference between a heretical priest and his episcopal supporters, and an atheist. An ocean of difference.

      The Church has always tolerated sinners, and she has always sought converts; but the Church has never tolerated heresy and never will . The exhortation of St Francis de Sales to use a spoonful of honey rather than a barrel load of vinegar, refers to our efforts to win converts – NOT to our dealings with heretics and dissenters. He does not spare their feelings one bit.

      Consider this, too: our elementary Christian vocation is to be a prophetic voice in the world. In our times, due to the unprecedented crisis in the Church, we are forced to exercise that prophetic voice to speak to our very worldly and faithless bishops. Sometimes, the prophetic voice is severe because to spare the feelings of negligent clergy and hierarchy, when they are responsible for leading thousands of souls astray (as Bishop Williams is doing – how many will attend that pilgrimage from across the Archdiocese of Liverpool and perhaps beyond?) is to fiddle while Rome burns.

      To sum up then: you are right in that we should extend courtesy to all. We should not be personally nasty to anyone. I was not personally nasty to Bishop Williams. He may be a very nice, personable man. Just as my GP may be a very nice personable man. However, if my GP proves to be a negligent doctor, dishing out dangerous advice to members of my family, I will tell him in no uncertain terms that he needs to gerragrip, act like a professional doctor and stop damaging the health of his patients. Ditto, regarding religious, moral and spiritual matters, I will speak plainly to any priest or bishop who writes the kind of scandalous letter to me that Bishop Williams of Liverpool wrote. My remarks were directed to him in his capacity as Apostolic Administrator of the Archdiocese of Liverpool – not as “Tom Williams” a nice man who has annoyed me a little and so I’ll hit out at him. Can you see the difference? Of course, you may be able to write a much better, much more effective letter than mine, maybe have him withdraw the invite to Fr Kelly. Go ahead, and feel free to post a copy on the blog. I’d love to read it and I’ll be delighted if you are successful. However, I know I’m not going to be “delighted” because the Bishop made clear his commitment to heresy. THAT, Magdalene, requires a severe reproof from someone and guess who drew the short straw?

      Now, I hope I’ve explained my position clearly enough – with your co-operation I would like to leave the issue of the excommunicated atheist aside now. I really do think that the rules of the blog are very basic, very few, clearly explained and entirely Catholic, but if anyone feels that they are unacceptable, and they can’t blog here any more, I will accept their decision and leave them in peace. I have a number of commitments in addition to this blog, website and newsletter, so I am unable to keep going over this unfortunate business. The Catholic Truth position is simple: anyone who wishes to blog here is welcome to do so as long as they respect our very simple rules.

      God bless you.

      August 22, 2013 at 12:05 am
      • Magdalene


        Thank you for taking the time and trouble to reply……….at such length…….and so late at night!

        May God bless you too.

        August 22, 2013 at 11:43 am
      • editor

        Pleasure, Magdalene. Thank you.

        August 22, 2013 at 6:40 pm
  • gabriel syme

    Scotland is to get a new religious community:

    The Dominican Sisters of St Celia (founded 1860) – popularly called Nashville Dominicans, on account of their Tennesse (US) base – are sending four Sisters to take up residence in Greyfriars Convent in the Diocese of Aberdeen.

    They replace the Sisters of Mercy, who left in 2010.

    The Dominican Sisters are faithful and orthodox and they even look like nuns ought to look. (Compare them to the casually-dressed, bolshy and dissenting geriatrics of the LCWR, whom the media vaunt). According to blogger Fr Z, the Dominicans get many vocations on account of this.

    I dont know much about the Sisters of Mercy, but if they have had to pack it up, that suggests no vocations, which in turn suggests they are a failing order which has lost its way.

    Good luck to the Dominican Sisters and let us pray they succeed where their predecessors failed.

    As Fr Z puts it:

    “They can expand because they have vocations.

    They have vocations because they are faithful to the Church and their identity.

    It’s not rocket science.”

    They have already updated their webpage to include their new presence in Scotland, see here:

    I think Scotland is the 3rd base which this expanding Order now has outside of the USA – the others being Syndey, Australia, and Rome, Italy.

    August 22, 2013 at 12:35 pm
    • gabriel syme

      @ Editor

      Hi there – on another thread (I forget which, sorry) you asked me to give specific details of a post affected by the bug I mentioned before.

      My post above, about the new religious community, is a post that was affected by it – see above for the date and time. It was my first post on the site today, and – like every first attempted post, after logging in – I got an error message “Sorry this message could not be posted” when trying to post.

      Hope this helps!

      August 22, 2013 at 12:46 pm
      • editor

        Gabriel Syme,

        WordPress staff are working on your problem to see if they can fix it. They ask me for browser information – just in case it’s required, so when you find a minute, please let me know which browser you use – is it Internet Explorer?

        August 22, 2013 at 10:02 pm
    • Eileenanne

      They seem to be involved mainly in teaching. Do you know if thats that what they are going to do in Scotland?

      August 22, 2013 at 2:24 pm
      • gabriel syme

        Hi Eileenanne,

        I found more info at the Catholic Herald. These snippets are from there:

        “Writing in the magazine, Light of the North, the Sisters announced: “Sister Anna Christi, Sister Amelda Ann, Sister Nicholas Marie and Sister Christiana… will be available to assist in the formation of youth and adults in the Catholic faith; in sponsoring retreats and catechetical courses and offering pastoral assistance in local parishes.

        “Catholic education and the Christian formation of children, young people and adults have remained the principal mission or apostolate of the Dominican sisters of St Cecilia. Although at 153 years we are relatively ‘young’ compared to centuries-old Scotland our congregation is linked to the 800-year history of the Dominican order as a whole.

        “As of this August our community numbers almost 300 and we are privileged to send sisters out from Nashville to serve in 19 dioceses in the US and four in additional countries – Italy, Australia, Canada and, beginning this August, Scotland.”

        So it seems they will be mostly involved in Catechesis and faith development.

        Note that they are also active abroad in Canada, as per the quote, I was wrong to say their only non-US locations were Scotland, Australia and Italy.

        I wish ++Tartaglia would organise some “proper” nuns for the Glasgow area.

        A few years back the Franciscan Sisters of the Renewal (another floruishing US order) made a succesful plant in Leeds, UK. Hopefully these Dominican sisters will be just as succesful in Scotland.

        August 22, 2013 at 3:29 pm
      • Josephine

        Gabriel Syme,

        I had a look at their website in the link you gave earlier and it looks like they are using the novus ordo Mass not the Tridentine rite. Having said that, they seem to be receiving on the tongue, although not kneeling. So I don’t see Archbishop Tartaglia having any objections to them coming to Glasgow. If the liberal Bishop Gilbert has accepted them in Aberdeen, they will be able to enter other Scottish dioceses, no problem, IMHO.

        It is very nice to see them in proper habits, and their website looks good. It will be interesting to see if they flourish here.

        August 22, 2013 at 10:59 pm
      • gabriel syme

        Hi Josephine,

        Yes I noticed that too, they are pictured using the new mass.

        Still, with their habits etc I think they are a step in the right direction, compared to what has passed for nuns in Scotland in recent decades.

        I know two elderly nuns in Scotland – both of them are lovely people, but you wouldnt know either of them was a nun. They look like a couple of dishevelled old ladies off the street.

        So, while perhaps not perfect, I think (hope) this is a step in the right direction!

        August 23, 2013 at 9:46 am
  • gabriel syme

    On BBC radio this morning:

    Mario Conti (boo, hiss) has written to The Tablet (boo, hiss) to accuse the disgraced Cardinal O’Brien of blocking an investigation into abuse in Scottish Catholic institutions.

    Apparently, other Bishops wanted an enquiry, but O’Brien blocked it.

    The BBC acknowledged that the Bishops were therefore split on this matter. However, the piece soon descended into the usual arrogant picking over the Church, in a way that other institutions do no suffer in the media.

    Conti himself was accused of doing this to scapegoat O’Brien. Conti also mentioned “the English Benedictines” in his letter (which is accurate) but again he was attacked as trying to dodge blame.

    The presenter herself claimed O’Brien blocked the move because he himself was part of the abuse – which is not actually true, his case (while still disgraceful) is somewhat different.

    The idiot presenter also managed to mash Mario Contis two names into one and refered to him (after stuttering and stammering for about a minute) as Archbishop “Monty”.

    This shows the BBC doesnt really care for fact or truth, its just using this as a smokescreen to deflect attentiuon from its own litany of child abuse.

    August 23, 2013 at 9:39 am
    • editor

      Gabriel Syme,

      I’ve just seen this reported on the 11 O’clock BBC TV news (which I get to see when shackled to my ironing board!) Apparently all the bishops agreed to an enquiry, then O’Brien changed his mind. So, we’re off again, more scandal – with all sorts of speculation as to why the enquiry was first agreed and then blocked by the Cardinal.

      “Archbishop Monty” – now why didn’t I think of that? Priceless!

      August 23, 2013 at 11:30 am
      • Augustine

        Well, it beats “Auntie Mary” which the Archbishop was called behind his back by some of his priests.

        August 23, 2013 at 9:16 pm
      • editor

        I’ve now posted a thread on this latest media frenzy – they (including the “intellectual” Tablet) appear not to know the full extent of either individual bishops or the “Bishops’ Conference”. All comments on this subject on that thread now, please and thank you, folks. Click here to comment on Conti’s False Claim…

        August 23, 2013 at 9:24 pm
  • Josephine

    This is an interesting development, a change in the rite of baptism to firm up the meaning of “Church”

    August 24, 2013 at 10:29 pm
  • Holy Muffin

    Good Catholic jokes anyone?

    Here’s one:

    Why can’t Anglicans play chess…

    … they can’t tell a bishop from a queen.

    ha ha ha

    August 26, 2013 at 1:55 am
    • gabriel syme

      Thats a good one, I have heard that before.

      Q: What the difference between a Catholic and a Baptist?

      A: A Catholic will acknowledge you in the off-license.

      BOOM BOOM!

      (This obviously plays on the fact that Baptists are simply a religious form of Alcoholics Anonymous).

      August 26, 2013 at 12:41 pm
      • Holy Muffin

        A Jesuit and a Franciscan of the Immaculate are having a conversation in a piazza in Rome. Then a poor Italian boy comes up to them and asks them if he could get an iPad if he prays a novena.

        The Fransican of the Immaculate says, what’s an iPad? The Jesuit says, what’s a novena?

        August 26, 2013 at 2:07 pm
  • catholicconvert1

    I too am pleased about the Dominican Nuns in Scotland. The Dominican Monks are in the process, I believe, of founding an Abbey in the Netherlands of all places. There’s hope for Gomorrah yet!

    However, did you read in the Catholic Herald about Pope Francis meaning Nikolaus Schneider, the Chief Layman of the Evangelical ‘Church’ of Germany? Read this, the third and fourth paragraphs will make you vomit. As if Protestants even share the same beliefs about the Holy Eucharist. For them Our Lord is not substantially present, there is no Eucharistic Miracle and it not a sacrifice, with no victim. Just…. don’t get me started.


    August 26, 2013 at 11:30 am
  • crofterlady August 26, 2013 at 11:38 am
  • Margaret Mary

    “If you liked the run up to the US attack on Iraq, with the lurid fictional tales of mobile chemical weapons labs and Saddam’s nukes, you will love “Iraq, The Sequel”, currently unfolding in Syria. It is everything the interventionists have been hoping for: a heady brew of Kosovo, Iraq, and Libya all rolled into one. The possibility for an infinitely more toxic conflagration is exponentially higher, to boot, adding for the interventionists much excitement to the mix.”,-the-sequel,-in-syria.aspx

    I’d be very interested to know what other bloggers think of this interpretation of the fighting in Syria

    August 26, 2013 at 4:25 pm
    • crofterlady

      Margaret Mary, I’ve just seen your question. I think the whole Syria scenario is very sinister indeed. Now why would the USA, UK etc., invade a country because approx. 400 of its citizens have been killed (sad though it is)? Over 1000 Egyptian citizens were murdered by their own military recently and the outcry from same countries is deafening. No, I think the aforementioned countries WANT to invade Syria for different reasons, probably for its strategic position geographically. If they do invade, Russia and Iran will probably intervene and then perhaps Our Lady’s promises at Fatima will be realised. However, I don’t really understand what’s in it for Russia. Anybody any ideas?

      August 28, 2013 at 4:43 pm
  • catholicconvert1

    I am fed up of reading that after Vatican Two many of the old devotions have died out. Please could you tell a few examples of these ‘old’ devotions?

    Also, what are the old hymns? Some of these modern hymns are banal. Last Sunday at Mass, the entrance hymn was to the tune of the German National Anthem. We’ve had shine Jesus Shine. I don’t mind ‘Be Still for the presence…’, ‘Abide with me’ or ‘Praise my Soul…’ But there’s only so much trash I can take. That being said the hymn ‘Mary Immaculate’ or ‘Salve Regina’ are good.


    August 27, 2013 at 3:17 pm
    • Miles Immaculatae

      Saints who were universally revered among the faithful such as Saint Philomena, Saint Christopher, Saint Barbara et al. were stripped of their sainthood by various conciliar Pontiffs. The affection held in the hearts of many for the illustriously esteemed Philomena, which blosomed in such a relatively short time after the declaration of sanctity is remarkable. This previously unknown virgin and martyr of ancient times was venerated by popes and saints (le Cure d’Ars, Leo XIII), and a great number gave witness to the miracles given them through this wonderworker.

      Ironic that the same men who did away with saints like these are among the two Pontiffs due to be canonised (John XXIII)

      August 27, 2013 at 8:29 pm
  • Miles Immaculatae

    Could someone here explain to me what the ‘Universal Living Rosary Association’ is? Additionally, I would like to know how it differs from the Rosary Confraternity. What would be a legitimate traditional avenue in becoming attached with both/ either of these?

    Is there a traditional Blue Army I could join? The original one has lost its way. Would it be recommend instead that I privately fulfil the promises of the Blue Army and avoid formally enrolling? I have the same idea about the Militia Immaculata, perhaps there is a traditional chapter of this as well?

    August 27, 2013 at 8:34 pm
    • Margaret Mary

      Miles Immaculatae,

      I don’t usually enrol for these sorts of things but I know a friend of mine is enrolled in the Living Rosary and he is very fussy about only joining good groups.

      I wouldn’t have anything to do with the Blue Army because they are wrong on Fatima. I also avoid reading anything from the America Needs Fatima and Britain Needs Fatima sources, as they are all mixed up about Fatima and toe the party line.

      August 28, 2013 at 10:04 am
  • catholicconvert1

    Hold on, how can a Saint be decanonised?

    August 27, 2013 at 8:37 pm
    • Miles Immaculatae


      I believe the actual term is ‘cult suppressed’.

      I don’t understand how it works. Hopefully someone here can fill you in.

      August 27, 2013 at 9:48 pm
      • Margaret Mary

        I don’t really know about this but I think it’s just that these saints have been removed from the calendar to make room for newer saints. I don’t think their cult has been suppressed. As far as I know, it’s just a practical thing to do with fitting in new saints on the calendar.

        August 28, 2013 at 10:05 am
  • crofterlady

    As we all predicted:

    August 28, 2013 at 5:52 pm
  • catholicconvert1

    Personally, I don’t see how the Church of England can refuse because I think that as the Established Church, it is obliged to perform marriages for those whom the government allows. Their gay ‘wedding’ will not be blessed by God because homosexuality is an abomination in His eyes, as well as the fact that the Anglican don’t have valid sacraments. Is it also true that Catholic Churches and Priests etc have diplomatic immunity or something similar due to them being subject to the Holy See?
    However, enough of Protestants. Are you not concerned about clerical celibacy? In Africa there are Priests who live with women, rape nuns, have secret marriages and families, because in tribal cultures respect is accorded by the amount of children. Although, I hasten to add that this is not widespread or common, but did gain notoriety in rural areas. Perhaps clerical celibacy might be brought in line with the Eastern Rite Churches, with celibate Bishops ordained from the ranks of celibate Monks and Priests.
    That all being said let me give you some statistics to do with the Priesthood:
    413,418 Priests- up from 410,593 in each continent, an increase of 2,825, and an increase of 8,360 since 2002
    Permanent Deacons- 41,000 in 2012, up from 29,000 in 2001
    Male religious- 54,665- increase of 436
    Seminarians- 120,616- increased from 112,244 in 2001, or 8,373

    August 28, 2013 at 8:34 pm
  • Crossraguel

    Archbishop Pietro Parolin is new Secretary of State:

    Any opinions?

    August 31, 2013 at 1:34 pm
  • Miles Immaculatae August 31, 2013 at 7:33 pm
  • Miles Immaculatae August 31, 2013 at 7:34 pm
  • Augustine

    I’m concerned to hear that the offices of in Vienna has been raided by Austrian police:

    Combined with the arrest of the parents of yet another homeschooling family in Germany this is very ominous for Catholics, and Christians in general, across Europe.

    September 2, 2013 at 12:03 pm
    • Lily


      I’ve just read your link and this is very sinister:

      “Vienna ( A number of days ago in Vienna, police executed a search warrant on the facilities of the internet website “”. This was reported on Saturday by the “Kronen” news. According to the report, it was directed against two priests from Lower Austria and Vienna. The charges are serious. According to “Krone” it was related to an article with radical right as well as anti-Jewish and homophobic contents, which had been published on websites “” and “”.

      It’s just like we always knew – anything which is not “pro” homosexual is “homophobic”.

      What about the “anti-Jewish” charge? I’ve not seen all of the Gloria TV videos by a long chalk but don’t recall anything that is “anti-Jewish” – does this mean we are to suppress the Gospel accounts of Jesus’s passion and death? Is telling that, “anti-Jewish”? Does history have to be re-written along PC lines?

      September 2, 2013 at 12:23 pm
  • Augustine

    I’m afraid that we are looking at the “anti-Semitic” card being used much more aggressively against traditional Catholics in the near future. A number of neo-Catholic apologists have insinuated that ‘supersessionism’ (the entirely Scriptural and orthodox position that with the Cross the Mosaic Covenant was abrogated) is somehow “anti-Semitic”.

    I honestly think over the next decade we may be entering into a period when neo-Catholics start denouncing traditional Catholics to law enforcement agencies. Perhaps out of a desire to avert attention from themselves.

    In this video Michael Matt and Christopher Ferrara discuss the raid on

    September 2, 2013 at 12:49 pm
    • sixupman

      “Oh dear” – vying for the understatement of the month, if not the year?

      September 3, 2013 at 10:07 am
    • editor


      Thanks for linking that unbelievable article. I just couldn’t resist throwing in a few comments. How incredibly ignorant people are, even at this stage in the crisis. One blogger didn’t “get it” asking how could any cardinal not be 100% orthodox. When he eventually arrives in Planet Earth he’ll realise that most of them are closer to being 100% dissenters than 70% orthodox!

      With every word Pope Francis utters, my concern about his pontificate increases. I truly thought I’d reached the top of my “Gimme strength” file with Pope John Paul II. This one is, if anything, much worse.

      St Francis, pray for him. Our Lady of Fatima pray for him.

      Sixupman – understatement, no question!

      September 3, 2013 at 10:28 am
  • Augustine

    It’s like two different religions meeting: the non-infallible utterances of the Pope vs the deposit of faith. And the deposit of faith isn’t coming out very well of it…

    September 3, 2013 at 10:38 am
    • editor

      And here’s the latest – Cardinal Bertone, for so long part of the Vatican machinery, hits out at the “crows and vipers” therein… Source

      September 3, 2013 at 10:55 am
  • Miles Immaculatae

    Maybe they’ll canonise him? Marini that is.

    I’m only joking. I’ve been told before not to write such things here. I don’t know who reads this blog and it might give some people ideas.

    September 3, 2013 at 4:26 pm
  • catholicconvert1

    The other day I was asked a question about what the Catholic Church’s view is on Salvation.

    I told them that ‘Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus still stands and was affirmed by Vatican II, and that the Mystical Body of Christ and the Catholic Church are one and the same, as stated by Pius XII in Mysticis Corporis and affirmed by Paul VI. I said that anyone who knows Catholicism to be true and yet refused to enter it or remain in it could not be saved.

    However, I did mention exceptions such as:

    Invincible ignorance- where an individual who has never heard of Christ and His Church, but lives according to the Natural Law inscribed on every man’s heart, and sincerely strives to find God and the Truth, they may achieve Salvation. This was stated by Pius IX. Although in our World we cannot know who knows the Natural Law and who abides by it outside the Church.

    Baptism of Desire- where someone i.e a Catechumen, who wants to be a Catholic but dies beforehand can achieve Salvation.

    Baptism of Blood- anyone who dies unbaptised, but dies as a Martyr for Christ, will achieve Salvation as their blood serves as the Baptismal Waters.

    I was also asked if other Religions possess some truth, to which I responded by saying yes, but this belief must be shared by the Church, i.e Jewish beliefs on God, and Islamic views on Mary.

    Lastly, I was asked if Catholics and Muslims worship the same God. I said yes, because it is the God of Abraham, although Islam is a false way of worshipping Him.

    Please tell me if I am correct.


    September 4, 2013 at 1:35 pm
    • editor


      You are correct right down to your paragraph about other religions.

      There is no other religion which possesses the fullness of the truth. Anything which is true in any other religion, is to be found in Catholicism – but none of the errors in other religions are found in Catholicism. Since the Jews do not believe in the Trinitarian God, their beliefs about God are not the same as that taught by the Catholic Church. Similarly, Islamic views on Mary contain error – e.g. they believe that Our Lady is part of the Trinity. So, while they honour her as a holy woman, they do so for the wrong reason!

      And no, Catholics and Muslims do NOT worship the same God. Again, they do not believe that Christ was/is God. And Christ said “Before Abraham was, I am” – so it’s not good enough to say that Muslims worship “the God of Abraham”. To worship “the God of Abraham” we must recognise Christ, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, as having existed before Abraham. That is, we must recognise the divinity of Christ – He is God.

      Catholics worship God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. That is entirely different from both Judaism and Islam.

      Hope this is clear enough.

      September 5, 2013 at 10:54 pm
  • kentigern2013

    Comment removed.

    September 5, 2013 at 6:55 pm
    • editor

      Comment removed

      September 5, 2013 at 7:38 pm
    • Petrus

      Comment removed

      September 5, 2013 at 7:40 pm
      • editor

        Comment removed.

        September 5, 2013 at 8:29 pm
  • kentigern2013

    Comment removed

    September 5, 2013 at 8:50 pm
    • editor

      Comment removed

      September 5, 2013 at 9:22 pm
      • kentigern2013

        Comment removed

        September 5, 2013 at 10:31 pm
  • Petrus

    Comment removed

    September 5, 2013 at 9:41 pm
  • editor

    N O T I C E . . .

    Kentigern is part of the resistance (to nothing) movement, the rebellion against Bishop Fellay of the SSPX.

    We want no part of that silly rebellion and will not advertise their meetings in any way, shape or form. To do so is to put the Faith of vulnerable or unsuspecting souls at risk.

    All comments relating to Kentigern’s original advertisement, have therefore been removed – my own included.

    This subject is now closed. Anyone wishing to make further comment, please do so privately to me, by email at

    Thank you.

    September 5, 2013 at 10:38 pm
  • gabriel syme

    Here are some news links I thought may be of interest to readers (apologies if not!):

    A Syrian Carmelite nun says she thinks that the Syrian gas attacks were faked and also describes the current situation in Syria. Previously a blogger (Josephine?) posted an article about the need for “false flags” to give the Americans excuses to start wars. The blog also links to an Israeli newspaper which covers the story too.

    “The Australian” newspaper claims Liberation Theology is to make a come back. You need an account to log into the Australian Site, but the article is in full at this link:

    (I think this story is just mischief making, though the article quotes a priest.)

    September 6, 2013 at 11:35 am
    • Augustine

      If the US starts a war it will be on behalf of a certain nation in the Middle East. The US could reap no conceivable benefit from such a war, but it will be the blood of the poorest US citizens that will be spilled.

      September 6, 2013 at 2:09 pm
  • Augustine

    This is a very revealing video by Michael Voris:

    It is clear that mainstream Catholic media in the US sees his apostolate as a great threat to their Modernist hegemony. Certainly, Mr Voris does not locate the ultimate responsibility for the crisis in the Church where it belongs – i.e. in the negligence by the post-Vatican II Popes – but, nevertheless, I think what he is doing is very good. How many Catholics have been able to see through the Potemkin’s Village of the ‘modern Church’ thanks to his exposure of corruption and dirty-dealing by the various hierarchies? Many, I think.

    So, while I think his answer to the question about Pope John Paul II’s horrible act at Togoville in 1985 that it was a “mistake” was a cop out (and it was I who asked the question), I got the impression afterwards that this is a man who sincerely loves the Church and who is not in it for the money. I was touched by how shy he actually is when you speak to him one-to-one.

    September 6, 2013 at 10:30 pm
    • editor

      I’ll watch this tomorrow, Augustine, but in any case I agree that Michael is doing good work and I firmly believe it won’t be long until he finishes the journey and starts laying the blame where it really belongs – and recognising the role of the SSPX in restoring the priesthood. Our Lady of Good Success, pray for Michael…

      September 6, 2013 at 11:33 pm
      • Augustine

        I wouldn’t be surprised since the irregular status of the SSPX was not the result of “prideful disobedience” but of machinations by Modernist bishops.

        September 7, 2013 at 9:13 am
  • Miles Immaculatae

    The ‘High Church’ neo-Catholic Fr Ray Blake shoots his own foot:

    10th August it’s dated. I don’t read his blog, some of the readers here may have seen this already:

    The trouble with the poor? Hmm, I think the traditional view is their lack of money.

    September 7, 2013 at 12:10 am
  • Miles Immaculatae

    I recant, I recant!

    September 7, 2013 at 11:20 pm
  • Augustine

    This is not going to be seen at all three pages into General Discussion, but it deserves to be recorded somehow:

    Hungary has begun to issue debt-free money and has even asked the IMF to close its Hungarian office.

    Back in the 1930’s ordinary people knew about this stuff (viz the loaded financial system) and there were Social Credit discussion groups all over the country, including one at Bath Street in Glasgow, where workers and professors met together to discuss the ideas of the Scotsman CH Douglas. But tell someone in 2013 that most money is created out of nothing and they look at you as if you were mad. It gets worse, if you then explain that this very fact means that, over the long term, our current financial system throws most people into debt peonage to the banks and dependency on State-largesse.

    This is a hugely interesting development and we should expect silence from the mainstream media on this until it can’t be sat on any more and then we’ll start hearing reports about the “far right” Hungarian government that needs to be isolated etc.

    I know. I know. Money and financial stuff is ‘boring’. But seriously with a debt-free money system Hungary has the best shot at implementing Catholic social teaching since Austria – the quadragesimo state – under Engelbert Dollfuss in the 1930’s.

    September 7, 2013 at 11:43 pm
  • Theresa Rose

    This article in one of Scotland’s daily newspapers with screaming headlines:-
    “Parents outrage as extremist religious cult hand out creationist books and preach to children at Scottish school”.

    The volunteers from the U.S. Church of Christ, seem to be part of the school chaplaincy in one particular primary school for about 8 years, though I have never heard of them before.

    Parents are angered because they believe that their young children are being brainwashed. This group are handing out books rubbishing evolution and preaching homosexuality is a sin.

    They have been reporting back to their base in the U.S. stating that out of a population of 5.1 million in Scotland, there are only 700 practising Christians. That is news to me. Anyone wish to comment?

    September 8, 2013 at 9:52 pm
    • Bakewell Slice

      Perhaps they mean only 700 Scottish residents will be lifted up in the ‘Rapture’?

      September 8, 2013 at 10:46 pm
  • Josephine

    I won’t be doing any Christmas shopping at Toys R Us this year, now that they’ve gone PC
    This report is disgraceful IMHO

    September 9, 2013 at 8:09 pm
    • Eileenanne

      Why does it matter? Surely you can decide what the children you shop for would like without someone else’s opinion on whether it is a boys’ toy or a girls’ toy?

      September 9, 2013 at 8:57 pm
      • Josephine


        It matters because it’s part of a general dumbing down of gender differences. It may seem unimportant but it’s one more step along the road to “no mums, no dads, just parents” etc.

        Also, is it terribly “uncool” to think that it’s OK to give girls “stereotype” toys like toy kitchen appliances, ironing boards, dolls & prams etc) and boys “stereotype” toys like cowboy outfits, guns, train sets etc? There was never any law against allowing boys/girls to play with the opposite gender toys, but it’s this conscious effort to blank out differences between boys and girls that I think is part of a bigger agenda. It is all part of the “sexual equality” mentality which has caused chaos in our society IMHO.

        Last word – it’s not “someone else’s opinion” on whether it’s a boy or girl’s toy. Everyone knows that historically boys and girls played with specific type toys. The equality lobby want to break through that, as part (I think) of their bigger agenda to dumb down the differences between the sexes.

        September 9, 2013 at 11:22 pm
      • Eileenanne


        Have a wee look at this if you have time, especially the part towards the end about the magnetic words.

        I certainly don’t want my granddaughter brainwashed into thinking that littel girls have to be pink and fluffy princesses and nothing else. Have a look at a toy catalogue or an online store and see how heavily that idea is currently being pushed to people buying for girls. SOOOOOO much pink!!!! Even Lego now has a “girls’ range”. I don’t know about your children, but my son and daughter shared the same box of Lego. Neither grew up with any gender confusion.

        In nurseries and playgroups, there is usually a wide selection of toys from which children can choose freely. SOME girls will play exclusively with dolls and domestic items. SOME boys will stick to the cars and trains. But I have seen a fair number of girls play with the vehicles and and lots of boys enjoy the home corner. I see no reason to label toys and tell either children or shoppers what is suitable for each sex. Let the children choose what interests them. (Except that I would not allow either sex to have toy guns.)

        September 10, 2013 at 11:41 am
      • gabriel syme

        I agree Josephine, those who seek to blur the lines between genders and also those who seek to blur the lines between sexuality etc.

        The worst thing is, whilst enforcing their own views on children, they do not practice what they preach. How typical of modern secular demagogues.

        For example, people say its bad to say that a toy pram is a girls toy, but yet they dont complain about the large array of female-only business and political institutions, or female-only gyms and other amenities, or female-only car insurance (recently altered by EU rules) or female-orientated newspaper sections etc etc.

        It seems to me that modern feminism is no more than a stage for hypocrites to glorify themselves upon.

        I think I would prefer educational type toys for any gender of child I may have*, but I do think its good to have some things as “boys toys” and some as “girls toys”. Children should be allowed to enjoy and celebrate who they are, just as adults should. Little girls like being little girls, and the same goes for little boys.

        (*Though if I ever have a son, he will be raised on a diet of plastic soldiers, toy guns and Commando comics, just as I was!)

        I do not like the vague and empty modern replacements for traditional societal identities and family structures. They mostly seem to be promoted by feminists and homosexuals, both of whom feel inadequate when stood next to traditional structures (which are, after all, not inventions but rather “reality”).

        September 10, 2013 at 12:30 pm
      • Eileenanne

        My main concern is about little girls being virtually forced by the aggressive pinkness of their toys (and clothes and furniture and accessories) into the idea that fluffy candyfloss princesses is all they should aspire to becoming. Do have a look at some catalogues or shops and see what I mean. Is that what you want for any daughter you may have? I hope not. I am already concerned that you would allow a son to have guns. I don’t want to have to pray that you have no children at all, so I am hoping that was a joke.

        As to educational toys – ALL play is educational. but I would be more inclined to buy a toy if it were labelled “Not educational – just for fun”!

        September 10, 2013 at 12:44 pm
      • Eileenanne

        Gabriel Syme,
        Imagine you have boy and girl twins at some time in the future. Sometimes your son plays with his sister’s dolls and sometimes your daughter plays with her brother’s cars and trains. (I am not going to suggest she plays with the guns as I really hope there won’t be any :-))
        Would you intervene or let them get on with it?

        September 10, 2013 at 12:48 pm
      • gabriel syme


        Theres nothing wrong with a little girl playing with cars or trains. Modes of transport are not gender-specific.

        But I would be concerned if a little boy wanted to play with girls dolls.

        Children of either gender might be interested or excited at the possiblity of (eg) a toy car race – but I am not sure what attractions there are for a (right thinking) boy in playing with girls dolls?

        Is he attracted by the pretty dresses, or does he enjoy styling the dollys hair? Alarm Bells.

        Much better that a young lad is out in the rain, crawling through the mud with a plastic rifle clutched to his chest, as he attempts to close with – and ‘kill’ – the boys from the next street along.

        Toys maketh the man!

        If he must have dolls, then he will have military dolls* – but he wont call them dolls, rather “action figures”.

        (*I had some “action man” figures myself as a boy, with suitably masculine outfits: Waffen-SS Pea dot camoflage etc).

        My own opinion is that masculinity is much maligned and has been systematically undermined for generations now. The effect of feminisation on both the Catholic Church and general society has been completely dismal.

        September 10, 2013 at 2:22 pm
      • gabriel syme

        the idea that fluffy candyfloss princesses is all they should aspire to becoming.

        I agree with you here. To be feminine does not necessarily mean to be sugar and spice and all things nice, nor sickly pink.

        But many girls (indeed women) DO like pink and cuddly things though, we should not marginalise them nor deny them what they want.

        I am already concerned that you would allow a son to have guns

        Why should a boy not have toy guns?

        Does this squeamishness extend also to (eg) a plastic sword or a toy bow-and-arrow? If not, why not?

        What about a water pistol?

        Violence is part of reality, I think its much better to educate children about it, (including through play), so that they naturally identify it as undesireable and can tell the difference between (eg) a fun childs game of cowboys and indians and a tragic school shooting.

        I think to educate children is always much better than to mollycoddle them, or to put ones head in the sand regarding reality.

        I don’t want to have to pray that you have no children at all, so I am hoping that was a joke.

        That must be the least Christian sentiment I have heard since the poster on Catholic answers who “hoped the SSPX would be excommunicated”, so I am hoping your comment was a joke!

        ALL play is educational

        I disagree here. That statement would probably have held traditionally, but not in the modern age with (eg) kids able to play often meaningless video games on their own and with much material aimed at kids being essentially anti-thought propaganda from the state.

        September 10, 2013 at 2:38 pm
      • Eileenanne

        One form of children’s play is acting out adult roles. Exactly why, then, is it inappropriate for a boy to play with a doll?

        Toy vehicles should not be gender specific – I agree – but if you look in a toy shop, the only ones in the “girls’ section” will be the pink ones!

        September 10, 2013 at 3:38 pm
      • editor


        On every occasion that I’ve ever taken my nieces and nephews into toy stores, I have noticed (and pointed out to anyone with a pair of ears) how the boys head straight for the cowboy suits and guns, cars and fire engines etc. and the girls look for the dolls and prams. That is without any coaching or encouragement. I can think of a number of occasions when I’ve taken children who are still toddlers, not been “brainwashed” into a store with a promise of something of their choice so show me what you’d like and we’ll see if we can manage it. NEVER has a boy chosen a doll or a girl chosen a gun. NEVER. They have always chosen – completely independently and instinctively it seems – toys traditionally associated with their own gender.

        That doesn’t meant they don’t interchange toys at home – of course! I’ve taken aim myself with my brothers’ guns many a time! But if Santa had left me one, I’d have been puzzled and annoyed – why would he do that, when I’d have preferred something, er, pink and fluffy!

        September 10, 2013 at 5:18 pm
      • Eileenanne


        I don’t expect you or the children needed the toys to be labelled “for boys” or “for girls” in order to decide what to buy. All the store is doing is remove those unnecessary labels. It will STILL be for parents or other gift givers to decide which toys are appropriate for the children they buy for. I see nothing sinister in removing those labels. FAR more sinister is the way girls are ptalked into the fluffy pink princess role by the way toys are marketed to them. Did you get a chance to read the link I gave Josephine?
        The last part about the magnetic words illustrates my point very well.

        I am also rather surprised that both you and Gabriel Syme think toy guns are suitable for children. I didn’t think ANYONE still thought that way. Many parents – rightly in my view – would not allow their children to come and play with a friend who had such things in their home.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:57 pm
      • editor


        I’ve just been speaking to a young mother of two small boys. She said she made the decision to allow her boys to play with toy guns – but not with pellets (I didn’t know toy guns routinely had pellets in them – I definitely wouldn’t like that, and she said the same, and she always removes the pellets and gives them the guns empty. When I was young – cough cough – we just had small toy guns that when you pulled the trigger, went “click! )

        The young mother I’ve just spoken to said she took the decision deliberately, in the cold light of disapproval from friends who hold your view, because she wanted her boys to be normal and to learn (as Gabriel says) that these things can be highly dangerous in real life etc.

        What concerns her much more, she said, is that, having gone to all the trouble to remove her children from school in order to home-school so that she could protect her boys from sex-education, she now has them coming in from playing with neighbours’ offspring with stories of how the girls are asking to kiss them, and giving them information about sexual matters that they have no business knowing themselves. .

        Toy guns Vs early sexualisation? No contest.

        I think common sense should prevail, Eileenanne. Just because the PC Brigade think removing toy guns from the play pen will stop violence and war, doesn’t mean it’s true. The same PC Brigade has the blessing of all the main political players today – and just writhe as you watch Obama itching to bomb Syria. Trust me, toy guns make not a jot of difference to world peace. The Consecration of Russia will, however, if the Pope ever gets down to it instead of putting his misplaced trust the UN .

        Mixing issues, I know – but I’m just the messenger, remember and you know what they say about messengers, don’t you – they should not be shot!

        N O T I C E . .

        Since nobody responded to my questions about the length of the pages, I’ve gone ahead and changed the settings so that there is no limit to comments and it’s up to me now to keep an eye and move onto a fresh thread after 500 comments, as we used to do. That means all the General Discussion comments can be reached directly from the sidebar. Hope this pleases everyone. But if not, too bad, folks!

        September 10, 2013 at 8:01 pm
      • Eileenanne

        Actually the discussion was not about gender neutral toys but about gender neutral labelling. Different thing.

        September 10, 2013 at 6:58 pm
      • editor


        A typo-type error. You know what I mean… I did say the “signage” would soon be changed to specify toys that were “gay” or “transgender”. Being picked up on a “slip of the tongue” really does use up the space on this already three page thread. I’m inclined to think the old way of just letting the one page grow to 500 was better than these single pages.

        I’ll check if it’s still possible to do that – or do the rest of you prefer the 100 length pages?

        September 10, 2013 at 7:06 pm
      • Eileenanne

        Editor said “Toy guns Vs early sexualisation? No contest. “

        A false dichotomy if ever there was one. I am firmly opposed to both of these.

        September 11, 2013 at 1:56 pm
      • editor

        Gabriel Syme,

        I’ve been reading through the exchange between Eileenanne and yourself about gender neutral toys and I have to say that I agree with you on this despite (or maybe because) of a memory from my childhood when, after agreeing to play at “houses” one of my brothers insisted on being “mother”. My sister and I were livid! I now realise, all these years on, that he’d obviously decided that since father went out to work every day, staying at home would be the easier part! “I knew it”, I thought, when he chose “Lazy” for his Confirmation name!

        There is a clear agenda here in this move to adopt gender neutral signage at Toys R Us. It’s only a small thing in itself, and isolated, it wouldn’t mean anything. But put together with the entire “LGBT” agenda, it means a lot.

        Put it together, for example, with the language changes – where soon we won’t know a “mum” from a “dad” or a “wife” from a “husband” etc. and you can begin to see what is going on. How soon before we have “transgender” toys? “gay” toys? What’s the bet that the signage will change again – this time, to specify which is which.

        We do have to be vigilant about this. Very much so unless we want children growing up thinking it doesn’t matter whether someone is a boy, girl, man, woman, “gay” or “transgender” person – it’s all the same (check out the nearest toy shop!)

        I do a lot of Christmas shopping for the many children in my extended family – I’m doing none of it at Toys R Us from now on.

        September 10, 2013 at 5:10 pm
  • catholicconvert1


    Thanks for the clarification about salvation. Please would you explain this from the Catechism:

    841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

    Surely this must have been believed either explicitly or implicitly by the pre-Conciliar Church, or is this a Vatican II falsification? Surely the Church’s doctrine on salvation and who may achieve it as I described applies to them, even in the post-Vatican II Church?

    Lastly to clarify, are Orthodox ‘invisible’ or ‘spiritual’ members of the Catholic Church due to their Church having valid Priests, Episcopacy and Sacraments?


    September 9, 2013 at 8:19 pm
    • Josephine


      I’d say that quote (841) from the Catechism must be an error. The Muslims don’t worship the same God as we do. I can only presume that they believe God created the world and so they can be said to share the same belief as us about creation but how confusing is that quote?

      September 9, 2013 at 8:25 pm
  • catholicconvert1

    …Or it could possibly mean that they worship the same God, but based around false belief, or with the similarities, i.e Monotheism? I wish they would take this out of the Catechism, not only does it confuse people, it also lessens the Sacrifice of Christ. I might get a big fat black marker pen and ink out the offensive parts. Would you?


    September 9, 2013 at 8:53 pm
    • Josephine

      I agree with you that that statement should not be in the Catechism. It is not just confusing it’s a scandalous statement, misleading people.

      September 9, 2013 at 11:25 pm
  • catholicconvert1


    As I am a staunch Catholic integralist and believe that all Catholic majority states should have the Church as it’s State Religion, and be governed according to Catholic dogma, please would you explain ‘Corporatism’ for me? All other explanations are so convoluted. I wonder why Ireland or Poland had Catholicism as the State Religion? I know Ireland had ‘Special recognition’ until 1973 as say, the Dominican Republic or Peru etc have today.

    Do any of the Irish people on this blog know if Liam Cosgrave is a practising Catholic and supportive of Church teaching?


    September 9, 2013 at 8:58 pm
  • gabriel syme

    An interesting article from Damian Thompson, about “Music Sacra Scotland” an organisation led by James McMillan seeking to restore beauty and dignity to Church music in Scotland. (ie trying to repopularise gregorian chant, as opposed to the criminal and protestant musical dross served up over the last half-century).

    The article also mentions the fact that ++Tartaglia is giving his backing.

    On Sunday, I attended Scotland national pilgrimage at Carfin Grotto. Despite growing up reasonably close by, it was the first time I had ever been to the Grotto (aged 35). (I am a member of an organisation which was helping out on the day.)

    When I was walking in, there were two women openly holding tambourines near the main entrance. My heart sank. I couldnt believe we had travelled out here for this. We dont expect much from the Novus Ordo generally, but tambourines always represent a real low.

    But I was wrong – not only were the tambourines not beaten in anger, (so why they were present, I do not know), but ++Targtaglia himself sang both the Kyrie (Greek) and the Creed (mode III). (Sadly they still went back to a “TV advert jingle” version of the Gloria inbetween these).

    The Archbishop was no Julio Inglesias (!) but his standard was certainly good for someone of his background, where traditional church music will not have featured prominently. I am sure it took a bit of courage to do that, there must have been approx 1,000 people present. I was amazed and delighted he did this, I couldnt imagine any of his recent predecessors doing the same.

    Hopefully this signals a welcome change in direction for Catholic music and culture in Scotland. Hopefully it also signals that people like James McMillan have influence in ++Tartaglias court and also that the new Archbishop is not so anti-tradition & anti-latin as his predecessor was.

    I was also interested to read in the link that Damian Thompson is a director of the Scottish Catholic Observer (think its part of the same media group as the Catholic Herald). I may well write to him to complain about his continued employment (in the Observer) of the two-faced apostate, Kevin McKenna.

    September 10, 2013 at 10:11 am
    • editor

      Gabriel Syme,

      “Hopefully it also signals that people like James McMillan have influence in ++Tartaglias court and also that the new Archbishop is not so anti-tradition & anti-latin as his predecessor was”

      If only.

      Some years ago, James McMillan made a point of correcting a front page report in the Herald (Glasgow Herald as was) in which Catholic Truth was named alongside James MacMillan in relation to the “return” of the Traditional Latin Mass – the paper featured the provision of a TLM in Sacred Heart and the front page story highlighted the division in the Archdiocese of Glasgow caused by Summorum Pontificum.

      In the next day’s paper, a letter from James MacMillan was published in which he sought to distance himself from the TLM and the traditionalist movement in general, emphasising that he attended his local parish novus ordo, with which he was quite happy. He stressed that his interest is limited to music. A great help in the fight for the restoration of the traditional Catholic Faith – NOT!

      As we’ve said before on this blog, Gabriel Syme, any improvement they can make to the novus ordo is welcome: but only as a preparation for the restoration of the ancient Mass – with or without the music. I’d sooner attend one low Traditional Latin Mass without hearing a single note of music, Gregorian chant or anything else, than a well performed hybrid novus ordo. End of.

      There is a group of (I think) young people involved in this musical enterprise and I wish them well. However, it’s no surprise to me that Archbishop Tartaglia is behind what they are doing which is essentially to create a kind of hybrid Mass, a cross between the novus ordo and the TLM – which is never going to work. Archbishop Tartaglia is so clearly a Modernist that it matters little whether he is less anti-Latin than his predecessor. He’s an ecumenist. He cannot BE a “traditionalist”. It’s that simple. He has studied in Latin, I’m told, is fluent in writing and reading it – whatever. If he hates the Traditional Latin Mass what difference does that make? I speak and write fluent English but my views on the novus ordo are unprintable…

      Don’t be fooled, Gabriel Syme. Archbishop Tartaglia will support all and any changes to the novus ordo – even a bit of Latin here and there – anything to fend off the day when the TLM is fully restored. Personally, I have no patience with the one foot in (the novus ordo) camp and the other foot in the (“traditional”) camp. Those who wish to attend the novus ordo should do so and enjoy their new and getting newer by the day Mass but without trying to convince those of us who know better, that what is now on offer is the best thing since sliced bread. I don’t care how much Gregorian Chant they include in the novus ordo. I won’t be moseying along – no chance!

      September 10, 2013 at 5:45 pm
      • gabriel syme

        As we’ve said before on this blog, Gabriel Syme, any improvement they can make to the novus ordo is welcome: but only as a preparation for the restoration of the ancient Mass


        a kind of hybrid Mass, a cross between the novus ordo and the TLM – which is never going to work

        Certainly, its not a permanent solution, but surely this must have some value in that it awakens people – who are now largely ignorant – to the existence of traditional liturgy and practice?

        How else will people – who have no great knowledge, or connections who could help them – first learn of / be drawn to tradition?

        He’s an ecumenist. He cannot BE a “traditionalist”.

        Agreed, and an excellent point.

        I speak and write fluent English but my views on the novus ordo are unprintable


        Archbishop Tartaglia will support all and any changes to the novus ordo – even a bit of Latin here and there – anything to fend off the day when the TLM is fully restored

        Do you think that its his motivation? If it is, I am sure he will find it to be counter-productive!

        I don’t care how much Gregorian Chant they include in the novus ordo. I won’t be moseying along – no chance!

        Which is fair enough – I went along to Carfin mainly (i) to help the organisation I am a member of and (ii) I was curious about seeing the Grotto, having never been.

        I guess I thought the Bishops efforts at chanting were a welcome surprise / move in the right direction.

        September 11, 2013 at 12:38 pm
  • gabriel syme

    I found out recently that St Marys Church in Saltcoats is to host a latin mass, at 10am Monday 16th September. The celebrant is a Fr Ross Crichton. Its no good for me (I will at at work, on the opposite coast) but good to see that the traditional mass is continuing to spread; hopefully it will become a regular fixture out there.

    September 10, 2013 at 10:27 am
    • editor

      Gabriel Syme,

      This is no doubt one of the Mass offered here and there on this day and that day – on every day except Sundays, in fact – arranged by the Una Voce group. Otherwise known as the “Don’t Rock the Boat Brigade”.

      Their members will travel to Saltcoats from all over the place to “support” this latest conquered parish, and they’ll thank the bishop ever so humbly for “allowing” them this great favour, instead of demanding Sunday Masses where they live, so that they / we can fulfil our Sunday obligation by attending the TLM locally. Nobody is obliged to attend Mass on weekdays. We ARE obliged on Sundays. We don’t need “regular fixtures” on weekdays – we need regular Sunday Masses.

      Una Voce is no threat to the bishops who throw them these occasional crumbs to keep the illusion of co-operation up and running. Indeed, in my opinion, not that anyone’s asking, Una Voce do not deserve support at all. Not least because their own Chairman or whatever his title is, fulfils HIS Sunday obligation by attending the novus ordo in St Aloysius, Glasgow! Oh and do you know why that is, Gabriel? Because he likes the music!

      James MacMillan – job done!

      September 10, 2013 at 5:53 pm
      • sixupman

        Una Voce/LMS [not railway] : “… crumbs from the master’s table”!

        September 10, 2013 at 6:12 pm
  • gabriel syme

    Seems like more bad news regarding the Francsicans of the Immaculate:

    “The Apostolic Commissioner for the Franciscans of the Immaculate has appointed Father Alfonso Bruno as the new Secretary General of the Order”

    “Father Alfonso Bruno is Known for His Aversion to Traditional Catholics and the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate Conception”

    September 10, 2013 at 12:40 pm
  • catholicconvert1


    Regarding Muslims worshipping the same God, I found this answer to a similar question to mine by Fr. Vincent Serpa, a Jesuit:

    ‘Granted, Muslims do not believe in the Trinity as we do. Nor do Jews. Yet we all believe in a Supreme Being who created and governs the universe. When St. Paul learned that the Greeks worshipped an unknown god (Acts 17:23), he identified that god as our God. Muslims worship the one God to the degree that they know him—which in our view, is a very limited knowledge’.

    What do you think?


    September 10, 2013 at 4:19 pm
  • sixupman

    Catholic Convert: “Supreme Being” a term. along with others, utilised by the Masonic element within the CofE – I heard with my own ears at Carlisle Cathedral Evensong. {it is a long story!]

    September 10, 2013 at 6:16 pm
  • editor

    N O T I C E . .

    Since nobody responded to my questions about the length of the pages, I’ve gone ahead and changed the settings so that there is no limit to comments and it’s up to me now to keep an eye and move onto a fresh thread after 500 comments, as we used to do. That means all the General Discussion comments can be reached directly from the sidebar. Hope this pleases everyone. But if not, too bad, folks!

    September 10, 2013 at 8:08 pm
  • Petrus

    We do not worship the same “god” as Muslims. You cannot reject the Trinity and worship the true God. You cannot reject Christ and still believe in God. I can’t stand this baloney “We are all children of Abraham”. No, we’re not. Remember what Holy Scripture says in John 8:56:

    “[56] Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad. [57] The Jews therefore said to him: Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? [58] Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am. [59] They took up stones therefore to cast at him. But Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.”

    Abraham saw Christ and was glad. Therefore, he would have had nothing to do with Islam.

    September 10, 2013 at 9:14 pm
  • Nicky


    “Abraham saw Christ and was glad. Therefore, he would have had nothing to do with Islam.”

    Those few words say it all, so thanks for them. That one Bible quote is all we need to prove that we do not worship the same God as Muslims. Why are the clergy so keen to pretend that we do?

    September 11, 2013 at 12:54 am
  • catholicconvert1

    So, what did the Church say before Vatican 2 regarding Jews and Muslims? What do Traditionalist Catechisms state on this? In a subsequent paragraph it says ‘non-Christians search for the True God amongst shadows and images’. Is this hokum as well?

    I think the Vatican should employ the Editor to write a new Catechism i.e one that makes sense.


    September 11, 2013 at 1:29 pm
  • Thurifer

    According to the news media, the Pope has apparently told atheists that it’s okay to not believe in God. If he did say that then it’s pure heresy.

    Expressing the belief that it was important for Christians to engage in “a sincere and rigorous dialogue” with atheists, Francis recalled Scalfari had asked him whether God forgave those “who do not believe and do not seek to believe”.

    “Given – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits, if He is approached with a sincere and repentant heart,” the pope wrote, “the question for those who do not believe in God is to abide by their own conscience. There is sin, also for those who have no faith, in going against one’s conscience. Listening to it and abiding by it means making up one’s mind about what is good and evil.”

    September 12, 2013 at 2:33 am
  • catholicconvert1

    I think the Vatican corrected the Pope on this latest wheeze. Although that being said, would an invincibly ignorant Atheist have a chance of salvation? I still really don’t understand invincible ignorance, would someone who had heard of the Catholic Church and Jesus, but still did not gain the truth of it get to Heaven? Is invincible ignorance actually in the Bible? I know that Baptism of Desire and Blood are explicitly mentioned but the other is not.

    September 12, 2013 at 12:11 pm
  • Miles Immaculatae September 12, 2013 at 12:33 pm
    • Miles Immaculatae

      In all seriousness though, here is some real urgent and important news from Rome:

      The recent prayer gathering in Saint Peters Square of Muslims and Catholics. I am scandalised by this.

      Last night on BBC news I saw an excellent report from Jeremy Bowen. He was broadcasting from the very centre of combat itself. He was in a Christian city. I have forgotten the name. He reported that the Christians were horrified when their home was taken by the oppositional forces. They caused havoc. The majority of Christians in Syria support Assad! They consider the opposition the be essentially a jihadist movement.

      The arguments against supporting these people get stronger everyday. Now is not a helpful time to be supporting inter-faith reachout with Islam.

      September 12, 2013 at 1:07 pm
    • Eileenanne

      … it’s supposed to be confidential… ” said Carlos Samaria,…

      So why is he blabbing to the media? Maintaining confidentiality seems to be a dying art.

      But how wonderful for the Pope to have had hand made shoes for the last 40 years. Such a luxury!

      September 14, 2013 at 2:59 pm
  • catholicconvert1

    I think the city is called ‘Malloulah’, forgive the spelling. Seven people there were taken by Al-Nusra and threatened to be beheaded unless they converted to Islam, and they desecrated Churches and smashed up statues of Our Lady. The Pope must put his flat feet down and say no. I might become a Sedevacantist until ‘Papa Jorge’ departs. I can’t cope with this Satanic influence anymore. You don’t get this in the Orthodox Church. How can Catholic and Muslims hold a prayer gathering, they’ll pray to Allah and the Catholics will pray to the Trinity.

    September 12, 2013 at 1:50 pm
    • Miles Immaculatae

      “The Pope must put his flat feet down and say no.”lol

      Is there not an SSPX chapel near where you live?

      September 12, 2013 at 3:10 pm
  • catholicconvert1

    Can someone tell me what ‘Corporatism’ is, as employed in the economic policy of Engelbert Dollfuss and Antonio D’Oliveira Salazar?

    September 12, 2013 at 2:06 pm
    • Augustine

      I can’t speak about Salazaar but Austria under Dollfuss became known as the quadragesimo state after the papal encyclical Quadragesimo Anno.

      I lived in Austria for 3 years when i was younger and I read little good about Dollfuss. But reading Fr Messner’s book opened my eyes to what a truly Catholic tried to under very difficult circumstances.

      One of the most revealing things that I have read about Dollfuss was in the biography of Dietrich von Hildebrand by his wife, Alice, which recounts that the Austrioan leader said the following on meeting Dr von Hildebrand:

      “For me the fight against National Socialism is essentially a fight in defence of the Christian conception of the world. Whereas Hitler wants to revive the old Germanic paganism, I want to revive the Christian Middle Ages”.

      September 13, 2013 at 4:46 pm
  • gabriel syme

    I figure the thread about Irelands terrible abortion law will be closed by now, so posting here. It seems that, even if most/all of the Irish Bishops are hopeless, they still have some decent priests:

    One deputy told the Sunday Independent: “I was approached by one priest recently and was told very clearly not to go to him looking for Communion that Sunday, as I would be refused.”

    September 12, 2013 at 2:58 pm
  • catholicconvert1

    What do these morons expect, a basket of muffins? I hope the Priests keep on pillorying them, as these politicians have no shame. We are confronted with a situation where we have a weak pope, weak Bishops and even weaker priests. But we’ve got to ‘luuuuve’ everybody. Yeah, right.

    September 12, 2013 at 3:13 pm
  • catholicconvert1

    I see the ‘church’ of Wales has approved women bishops. They were never priests in the first place so they will only be adding another layer to the fancy dress. Another pickled herring on the smorgasbord of Protestant heresy.

    September 12, 2013 at 5:32 pm