Fatima: Russia Converted…Evidence Overwhelming – Joanna Bogle…
Father Gruner Insulted
One of our readers in England emailed me a link to a disgraceful article penned by Joanna Bogle on her blog. To say that she’s been nasty about Father Nicholas Gruner, well known Fatima priest, is to say that she’s remained silent about the dissenting priests who make up the apostate Association of Catholic Priests in Ireland and every other dissident priest you care to name. Oops! She has! Remained silent, I mean. Her (very posh) ire is reserved, it seems, for the one priest in the entire world who has not failed to publicly promote the Fatima Message in its entirety, despite the unpopularity he suffers as a result.
The Useful Idiots of Vatican II
Lenin, it was, who coined the term “useful idiots” to describe those who went along with and even sought to spread “The Party” ignorant of the fact that it militated against their own best interests.
In his book, The Great Façade (of Catholicism) Christopher Ferrara applied the term to Catholics who, during the current crisis in the Church, accept and spread the Vatican party line on just about everything, Fatima included.
But Joanna Bogle, who describes herself as a “Catholic journalist and author”, just has to be the Vatican II Useful Idiot Par Excellence. No offence intended, of course. Just saying…
Quoting the reader who sent me the links to Joanna’s latest attacks on Father Gruner: she seems to have an obsession with this priest. He angers her, as I’ve already intimated, in a way that all the dissenters in the Church put together, don’t.
Cardinal Burke Attacks Father Gruner
In a recent rant, she could scarcely contain her excitement, her utter jubilation, because no less than Cardinal Burke agrees with her about Father Gruner: on her blog, she quotes him, as follows, from their private correspondence:
“Now – and this is important: Catholics need to know the truth about things (Ed: but only when it suits Auntie Joanna). Cardinal Raymond Leo Buke, prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura, wrote to me on September 24th:
‘You are correct that there is much confusion about the message of Our Lady of Fatima, caused especially by Father Nicholas Gruner, a priest who is not in good standing in the Church, and that this confusion is harmful to many good people who are being led astray about the important message of Our Lady of Fatima.'”
Well, I think Fr Gruner will be very interested, not to say puzzled, to read that he’s not a priest in good standing, after all. Not that it’s anything to boast about these days; all sorts of dissenters remain “in good standing” – there’s Monsignor (there was no physical resurrection, no physical Real Presence) Loftus, for example, and Bishop Conry, Arundel & Brighton (conscientious contraception’s just fine and dandy with me…) springs to mind, along with a couple of dozen others whom I could name off the top of my head. Quicker just to recommend any edition of The Tablet – which was sold and promoted, by invitation, at one of Joanna’s daft exhibitions somewhere in darkest London some years ago, take note.
To belittle the Message of Fatima under any pretext, is to attack Our Lady. It is to peddle lies about Fatima. So if you wish to read the source of this latest attack on Our Lady of Fatima under the guise of a nasty attack on Father Gruner – click on the picture of Joanna Bogle…
Now I could – but won’t – quote from correspondence I’ve received myself from a Cardinal in the Vatican, whose opinion on the combined episcopates of the UK is somewhat at variance with the breathlessly gushing views of Mrs Bogle, who is the original Pollyanna with bells on: always something to be glad about… I suspect, had I mentioned Fr Gruner, “my” cardinal would have been at least as supportive of him as Cardinal Burke has been hostile. But, then, who cares what Cardinal Burke thinks about anything? Did he, or did he not, promise Daphne McLeod to address one of her conferences and then, at the last minute, cancel due to his apparent weakness of character-through-to-downright- cowardice in the face of criticism from the Church establishment in England? Suffice to say, I value Cardinal Burke’s opinion of Father Gruner about as much as I’d value (multiple child-killer) Ian Brady’s opinion of high court judges were it ever to reach the public record.
Overwhelming evidence that Russia has been converted
Like all those who believe that, because Russia is “in the world” and popes have consecrated the world to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart, everything is as it should be and all’s well with our war-torn, disaster ridden, child abusing, murderous, inter-faith, multicultural, anti-Catholic world, Mrs Bogle has ducked the challenge of demonstrating to the rest of us where on earth (literally) we can find the period of peace promised by Our Lady after the Consecration of Russia carried out, as she asked, by the Pope in union with all the bishops of the world. I, for one, would like to buy a house there. Soon.
Kid yourself not, Joanna Bogle is not going to be worrying about daft details like that. Not at all. “The Vatican” says it’s all been done to order and that’s good enough for dear old Mrs Bogle, who was made a Dame of St Gregory by Pope Benedict – loyalty to the party line does, it seems, pay off, at least in this world. Ever the Queen of Superlatives, she posted the announcement of this worldly honour on her blog, adding: I am overwhelmed and can’t write any more at the moment… So was I – couldn’t believe it. Where’s MY dame-hood or whatever it’s called? And when it comes, as come it surely must (or I’ll cause a fuss) will Fr Tim Finigan so beloved of the neo-Catholic majority come onto this blog to write his congratulations to me, as he did on Auntie Joanna’s blog: adding that the award is “richly deserved”? No, I don’t think so either. Signed, Shocked & Disappointed, Glasgow…
Incredibly, Mrs Bogle continues her attack on Fr Gruner as follows: “The Fatimists have found the going a bit difficult in recent years (because) evidence of Russia’s conversion, which Mary promised would happen after the consecration, is now overwhelming.” Read more here (and try not to laugh)
Fatima: The Bogle Brush-off – A response…
Christopher Ferrara, the well known American lawyer, penned a first class response to Jeff Mirus of Catholic Culture, one of the better known “useful idiots” in the USA recently and since every word of it applies equally to Joanna Bogle, we suggest you read it. Like Joanna Bogle, Jeff Mirus believes that those of us who seek the Consecration of Russia and publication of the missing part of the Third Secret, are a mere lunatic fringe. Here’s an extract referring to the Third Secret: Ferrara writes –
“Knowing less than nothing about this subject, Mirus (Bogle) would be unaware that the “fringe” conspiracy theorist Archbishop Pietro Sambi, who was merely the Papal Nuncio to the United States, recognized the strength of the case for a missing text. The “fringe” journalist Robert Moynihan, editor of the “fringe” publication Inside the Vatican, reported as follows on a conversation he had with the Archbishop not long before his death concerning my “fringe” book The Secret Still Hidden, wherein I marshal the abundant proofs for the existence of a missing text:
We were discussing the Third Secret of Fatima, the allegations that the Vatican has not published the entire text of the Third Secret as revealed to Sister Lucia, and the response of Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican Secretary of State, in a book where Bertone states that there is nothing more to be revealed. Sambi said, “Excuse me.” He got up, went out of the room, and came back with a book. “Here,” he said. “Do you know this book? You should read it.” It was Christopher Ferrara’s The Secret Still Hidden.
“Wait,” I said. “You are the Pope’s representative in the US, and you are urging me to read a book that questions what the Secretary of State wrote?” Sambi replied, “All I am saying is that there are interesting things worth reading in this book. And in the end, we are all after the truth, aren’t we? The truth is the important thing…”
Yes, the truth is the important thing. But not for Jeffrey Mirus (or Joanna Bogle). END. Source
I’m reliably informed that hubby, (Mr Bogle) is of a quite different mindset to his wife on certain matters ecclesiastical. If he’s reading this, and would like to contribute to our “Fly on the Wall” series of reports, we’d love to hear from him. Well, you can’t blame a girl for trying…
Fatima: The Bogle Brigade Brush Off – what can we do about it?
Well, there’s absolutely no point in wasting time composing a comment to post on Auntie Joanna’s blog – anyone who disagrees with her just disappears into cyberspace. I know – I’ve tried in the past. You can, however, email her to give away a generous piece of your mind. [email protected]
Above all, however, we must all pray hard for Fr Gruner. It’s the faithful priests like him, who will not compromise with the modernist stranglehold on the Church at the present time, including the Fatima cover-up, who are persecuted and bullied, insulted and calumniated far and wide. Our Lady of Fatima, Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for him.
As for Joanna and the rest of the Bogle Brigade – pray to St Jude.
Comments (41)
Joanna Bogle is a disgrace. The very way she speaks about Father Gruner, by his surname, no title and “Grunerites” shows a complete disregard for the fact that he is an ordained priest. If she read the book Fatima Priest she’d soon find out that Father Gruner is incardinated in a diocese so he is a priest in good standing.
It’s interesting that she was made a Dame of St Gregory, given that she is very much into this sort of thing. She advertises for women to be nominated for the award of “Catholic Woman of the Year” in the Catholic press every year, showing her liking for worldly recognition. So it makes me wonder how she came to get that award (Dame of St Gregory) as somebody she knows and who knows her, must surely have put her name forward, knowing it would be right up her street.
I don’t think anybody should take her too seriously. She is not well informed at all, and that man in America likewise to say that Our Lady is not the Vicar of Christ so can’t tell the Pope to consecrate Russia, which is more or less what he said. The pair of them are shallow thinkers and not informed at all on Fatima.
This is all classic Joanna Bogle. She read a book recently on Fatima by Fr Andrew Apostoli (another Vatican secretary-of-state party-line effort) and suddenly she’s a world class expert. Anyone who has made a serious in-depth attempt to study the message of Fatima over many years, and has come to a different conclusion from Joanna, is airily dismissed as a ‘conspiracy theorist’. Even the well-known Italian journalist Antonio Socci started out to discredit the ‘Fatimists’ and ended up supporting their position. But the point is that he actually made the effort to find out what these so-called ‘Fatimists’ were saying, and he had the good grace to admit that he had been wrong to oppose them, when the evidence became overwhelming. But if you’re waiting for Joanna to buckle down to serious research, which could result in her having to do a volte-face, don’t hold your breath. This would involve having to confront some unpleasant truths about the state of the Church, but Joanna appears to live in a deluded ‘glorious new Catholic springtime’, divorced from the ecclesiastical reality experienced by so many of us. As for her take on the fact that Russia is converting, she needs to read the recent Christian Order article about the true state of Russia (part two of that article is in the next edition).
Her attacks on the Fatima Network and Fr Gruner are mischievous because she slings around wild accusations without ever substantiating them. Comments from Cardinals in private correspondence do not count – again, when the charges made have absolutely no substantiation. As for Fr Gruner being / not being in ‘good standing’ – whatever that means these days – I refer Joanna and everyone else to this article:- http://www.fatima.org/apostolate/defense/notsusvir.asp But Joanna will just dismiss it, because to sit down and refute all the hard facts and all the evidence in this piece would be impossible for her, so best to dismiss it all as ‘conspiracy theory nonsense’ and then rush back to the new springtime comfort zone.
Whenever she makes these dilettantish attacks – which are becoming more frequent and furious – her fundamental lack of knowledge on the issues surrounding Fatima becomes more painfully obvious each time. I’m sure many would be prepared to take her more seriously, if she actually took a specific example, a book for instance, like this one http://www.secretstillhidden.com or an article written by someone who opposes her views on Fatima, and gave a scholarly piece-by-piece refutation of the facts and solid evidence, using facts and solid evidence that she has mustered. But she can’t do this, so she resorts to name-calling and sneering.
I think it is part of her wider dissatisfaction with traditional Catholicism, about which she has made occasional side-swipes on her blog and in articles. So until Joanna actually comes up with some hard facts to dispute the hard facts put forward by Fr Gruner and his Fatima Network, she can be safely ignored. If she ever moved outside her small coterie of Ordinariate and other hangers-on, she would see the bigger picture.
The official party-line outfit ‘World Apostolate of Fatima’ in this country is run by a couple of elderly gentlemen, who, like Joanna, seem to spend a lot of their time being uncharitable about Fr Gruner. ‘WAF’ is far from being a vibrant force for the future. Most of the Catholics that I know – and I have contact with many – young and old, simply do not buy the ‘WAF’ party line on Fatima. Whether or not fully paid up members of the Fatima Network, they just don’t believe the Consecration has been done, nor do they believe the full Secret has been released. Even the magazine ‘Inside the Vatican’ – hardly a trad conspiracy theory mag – has published an article which confirms that people just don’t accept what has been foisted on them:- http://www.renewamerica.com/images/columns/081210abbott.pdf
But, I fear common sense will not prevail now. For whatever reason (perhaps hubby is more supportive of the Fatima Network?) Joanna is clearly very angry about this issue, and it is, as Editor’s correspondent pointed out, becoming somewhat obsessive, so the attacks will continue. Please pray for her.
Westminster Fly,
You are right – common sense will not prevail because Joanna is determined to hate the apostolate of Father Gruner, possibly, as you say, because her husband is on the other side of the argument. I’ve heard that theirs is a house divided because of his traditionalism and her modernism. It’s painful enough seeing that in the wider Church but within the same home it must be excruciating
Joanna Bogle’s blog on Fr Gruner and “Grunerites” is one of the most uncharitable and therefore one of the most unCatholic works I’ve ever read. I don’t think she’ll apologise for her comments, though, but it may undo some of the damage she’s doing to Father’s apostolate, by giving her this publicity.
Well said Westminster Fly. There is little more to be said and it must be a difficult situation for both Joanna and her husband Jamie when they disagree on such fundamentals. They do need our prayers.
I have been reading the updated booklet about Fr, Gruner “Fatima Priest” by Francis Alban and Christopher F which brings together the history and reasearch of the messages of Our Lady of Fatima and how the Vatican have tripped themselves up by refuting their own statements. The comments made by Pope Benedict xvi during a homily on May 13, declared
“One would be deceiving himself who thinks that the prophetic mission of Fatima is concluded” contradicts the party line as sold to us by Cardinal Bertone and Sodano and whom Pope benedict was alluding to when he made this statement because they had tried to promote the idea that the secret had been published and put to rest. Pope Benedict made this declaration during the Mass at the the Fatima Shrine in front of a crowd of 500,000 souls and to millions through television.
God Bless Fr. Gruner for all he has done to keep this topic in front of the Church and the Vatican
Clotilde
“I have been reading the updated booklet about Fr, Gruner “Fatima Priest” by Francis Alban and Christopher F which brings together the history and reasearch of the messages of Our Lady of Fatima”
Is this a different version from the one which is on the Catholic Truth website, and if so, do you have a link, is it still downloadable for free online?
I feel a duty to keep as up to date as possible with the Fatima issues to be able to answer the enemies of Fatima, like Joanna Bogle, so would appreciate any more details you have.
Lily,
This booklet is just a supplement that will appear in a soon-to-be published edition of Fatima Priest, bringing the previous, 2000 edition up to date in which
Fr. Gruners position has been vindicated….. I receive my mailings from the Fatima Center in Canada. Maybe try emailing- [email protected] for news about the publication.
I don’t see very much charity or fraternal correction on either side
Jon,
What do you mean? I can’t see any lack of charity here – Joanna Bogle has bad mouthed a good priest and not just once, by the sounds of it. As Westminster Fly has said, she hasn’t studied the facts. Therefore, it is fair comment for us to point out that she is wrong. What’s uncharitable about that?
Nutty as a fruit cake – despite her degree studies at that school of misfits, Maryvle.
Talking of mocking surnames, i.e Grunerites. I was at my one on one RCIA class today, and I enquired about ‘Subsistit in’ and ‘Subsistit est’. He said that the first means the Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church and the latter meant the Church subsists in and is the Catholic Church, but that fundamentally they mean the same. But I mentioned what the Traditionalists say about this, and that narked him. He said ‘well, you’re either converting to proper Catholicism or the Tridentinite sect’. He say that you are Protestants because a) you are protesting and reject infallible council documents and b) you reject the authority of the Pope. He said one could get more sense out of Ian Paisley than Bishop Fellay. Er, well, I’m pretty sure the ‘Tridentinites’ recognise Papal authority so…… help me out.
Are you a Protestant, Ed?
Catholic Convert,
You know I’m not a Protestant. How do you know? Because the bishops don’t like me! 🙂
CC1
I dare say that Joanna Bogle has a view too on whether or not the Documents emanating from the Second Vatican Council are infallible at all at all.
St. Thomas Aquinas tells us that it is a fundamental law of logic that something cannot be itself and the opposite of itself. Those documents may have been “signed off” and, according to Modernist Rome, they are “required belief” as far as we are concerned. But they were never promulgated as infallible. So they cannot be both infallible and fallible at the same time.
Unless Mrs Bogle knows different, of course?
Er, I AM still on the “Good, clean fun” thread am I not? or a meringue Madame Editor?
Leprechaun,
Well said. Nobody can “sign off” documents which turn Catholic doctrine on its head and claim them to be infallible. As you say, it’s a fundamental law of logic. How can previously condemned ideas (such as ecumenism) suddenly become infallible and binding on Catholics. I repeat – well said.
You are NOT a meringue, leprechaun, although you are the crème de la crème!
🙂
Evidence of Russia’s conversion is overwhelming? That will be news to the Russians. I used to say it when I read her column in the Catholic Times, and I’ll say it again here – the woman needs help.
There is an idea being spread that Russia is now more sympathetic to Catholicism, so I’d like to know if they have changed their rules about clergy – the last I heard, only Catholic priests had restricted entry and required a licence of some kind. Does anyone know if that is still the case? If so, it would certain disprove Joanna’s theory.
Margaret Mary.
No, they are not more sympathetic to Catholicism and the rules haven’t changed. See Chris Ferrara’s ‘Conversion of Russia’ updates:- http://www.fatimaperspectives.com/cr/toccr.asp I think you’ll find that this idea is being spread by wishful thinkers – or ‘useful idiots’ as Editor described them. Also, try and see the article on Russia in the latest Christian Order (sadly not online yet)
Joanna Bogle should be thoroughly ashamed of herself, to treat such good priest as Fr Gruner with such contempt.
Personally, I have always felt that she is more comfortable with Anglicanism than Catholicism. Reading her writings on the Ordinariate has only confirmed my view. I’m sure a conversation with her on the subject would reveal that she doesn’t think there’s much difference between the two.
Funny you should say that about Joanna and Anglicanism – I was thinking exactly that today. Well, after all, she does say in the blurb on her blog, about herself “She relishes the new translation of the Mass, the Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham, her own excellent local Catholic parish, traditional hymns (especially, perhaps, Anglican ones) . . . “
How very disappointing to read Joanna’s article. I am really disappointed that she’s been so unkind about him. You might think he’s wrong but that is no excuse to disrespect his priesthood.
I hope she reads this blog and changes her mind about him – I know people who have met him and think he’s a living saint.
Joanna, the fount of all Catholic erudition, apologies? You will have a very very long wait!
Dyed hair. Always a sign of vanity……And, with vanity come more serious faults? pride.
Crofterlady,
I don’t think that is necessarily true. Is colouring hair any more vain than wearing make up or painting fingernails?
Joanna can be fairly criticised for her modernist beliefs so I don’t think it’s necessary to talk about her appearance.
My great aunt (a nun) told us the following story: A Belgian cardinal once said to a dolled up widow sitting next to him at a dinner party: “Madame, are you looking for a husband ?” To which she replied: “Certainly not!” Then why Madame, continued the cardinal, are you dressed like a Christmas tree?”
Vanity, vanity, all is vanity.
Crofterlady,
You are so different from my Mom. The first thing she’d say is, “That woman needs lipstick.”
Once our priest, who was old, stopped her and said, “You’re wearing lipstick.” She said,
“Father, everyone says I look pale if I don’t.” Father thought for a minute and said, “It’s okay. My mother wore lipstick.”
That’s such an old fashioned idea, that women only dress up to catch a husband. Are we not supposed to make the best of our appearance which is God’s creation? I am totally objective – I don’t dye my hair, paint my nails or wear lipstick! I know what you’re thinking – I must be a natural beauty or very ugly!
I forgot “wear make-up”!
His Eminence Cardinal William Henry O’Connell, Archbishop of Boston between 1907-44 and once counselled his Priests to refuse Holy Communion to women wearing lipstick, as he considered it to be irreverent. Now, if only more Church leaders spoke like this. You see women wearing high heeled boots, hotpants and miniskirts to Mass. Women should wear Mantillas, or another suitable head covering in Church.
I think it was my mom’s generation, which was well dressed. She thought one should dress like Queen Elizabeth. Although she almost always wore black to Mass.
A point I forgot to make earlier – note that Joanna talks about Grunerites and singles out Fr Gruner as if this were a one-man crusade. Let’s not forget there are rafts of books and articles out there by other authors, disputing the official version of Fatima. Antonio Socci, Christopher Ferrara, John Salza, Robert Sungenis, Mark Fellowes, to name a few.
Westminster Fly,
Mrs Bogle is unlikely to have a go at those authors, given that MR Bogle hobnobs with them at conferences etc. Add to that the fact that he’s a divorce lawyer and I think we can safely say that Mrs B will not be having a go at any of the “guilty” parties on your list…
A reader in England who has had difficulty registering for this blog, emailed the following comment which he asked me to post on his behalf:
The ‘Catholic’ Herald or the Fr Finegan blog or something at the weekend had pics of Joanna Bogle) with some youngsters, boldly referring to her left, right and centre as ‘Dame’.
In fact, it was confirmed by Royal Decree here just a couple or three years ago that ‘foreign’ titles may not be used here, nor foreign decorations worn. Since her husband is such a fan of orders/titles/uniforms etc, even more can the Scots Law (dating from Canon Law) maxim apply – Ignorantia iurem neminem excuset. (basically, ignorance of a law is no excuse for breaking it…..)
Ed: how often have I heard THAT when being handed a parking ticket!
Jings – I initially mistook the Joanna Bogle picture on the home-page for Ann Widdicombe!
ha ha! That’s good! I can see the resemblance!
I just paid a visit to Joanna Bogle’s blog and this is a comment from her at the end, which shows the site is moderated:
“If you write a much MUCH shorter version – you can leave in all the bits in which you are rude about me, if you like, but shorten all the other bits – I might be able to publish your Comment. No promises, but concentrate on brevity and let’s see if it works…”
Please Editor close this thread. Having read through it I truly find Nothing edifying or charitable about the comments being made on any posts. Especially I find most uncharitable and unchristian comments on the personal situation and home life of Mrs Bogle. This is pure malicious gossip and absolutely nothing to do with a legitimate debate. Insulting the individual, whether that individual has insulted another herself or not does nothing to edify or promote Christian Charity. This in turn may be seen by others as who are not catholic and cause scandal and harm to the church. I am rather surprised that you as Editor did not step in earlier to prevent such lack of Christian charity. The comments made about Mrs Bogle on a personal basis and about her private situation being posted in this way demean Your blog, and call into question the integrity of yourself as Editor and those who have participated in making such comments. A very very poor show Editor
Chasdom,
What would make a welcome change would be for you to come on here to make a positive contribution, not just to attack us, my unworthy self in particular. Heavens, you’ve not even posted a joke on the Fun thread, to date. Sheer nerve.
There is absolutely NOTHING on this blog about Joanna Bogle that is not already in the public domain. Not a word. And I’ve just read through every comment and can find nothing uncharitable. One jokey reference to hair colouring was taken up by another blogger, who mildly objected, saying something to the effect that Joanna could be criticised for her attitude/statements but no need to mention appearance. So, I reject your criticisms out of hand and I’ll pass on your advice to close this thread, thank you very much. It’ll be closed, like every other October thread, at the end of the month. Anyone who doesn’t like it, needn’t read it.
Catholic Truth wishes to place on record, this vicious attack on the character and person of Father Gruner, coming from someone who has been awarded a papal honour. She is internationally known and respected within the neo-Catholic community (not to mention the Anglicans). She is doing immense damage to the Fatima apostolate, not just by her attacks on Father Gruner, but by her unconscionable advocacy of the World Apostolate of Fatima or whatever it’s called, a group which is NOT spreading the authentic Message of Fatima, but instead, leading people astray with false information.
So, feel free to skip this thread if it upsets your conscience in any way. I respect those who have taken time to express their disgust at Mrs Bogle’s latest nasty attack on Fr Gruner and consider the kind of criticisms you have made to be both unthinking and untrue.
Finally, two things:
1) I sent the link to this thread to Joanna Bogle to ensure that she is aware of our discussion. We are not going behind her back.
2) Your comment was posted here. Anytime I’ve submitted a comment to her, for publication on her blog, it’s been binned. And my comments always focused on the topic of her blog, not on her personal shortcomings. You should try criticising HER as you’ve criticised me one of these days and watch your post disappear into cyberspace.
Well said Editor. The only things that are ‘unedifying and uncharitable’ are Mrs Bogle’s ill-informed and relentless attacks on those who promote the full Fatima message, which I believe are motivated by personal reasons, that I won’t go into here. Suffice to say that I think she wants to present herself and those close to her as bastions of mainstream ecclesiastical acceptability, and so attacks anything which she feels may threaten that, or which she personally considers to be ‘extreme’ – whether it is, in reality, extreme or not. I think Joanna is her own Pope in that regard. Whatever she personally disapproves of, for whatever reason, ergo, is WRONG and must be stopped.
Well, she’s picked the wrong target this time, as people are NOT going to stop insisting on the full Fatima message, just because she’s got a bee in her bonnet about it. I am quite sure that she will pursue this vendetta publicly and privately, enlisting the support of anyone she can, clerical or lay, and try and cower as many people as possible with her hectoring – but do not be bullied by her, and in whatever forum she attacks those who promote the full Fatima message, we must write in and set the record straight. Stand firm and keep re-presenting the facts http://www.fatima.org . The full Fatima message is too crucially important to be suffocated by the likes of Joanna Bogle.
Papal Dames obviously aren’t quite what they used to be. I had read the first twenty or so comments on this thread before reading the link to Mrs Bogle’s blog. I wasn’t exactly expecting a gushing forth of luv towards Father Gruner’s Fatima Apostolate, but neither was I prepared for the sheer disrespectful, ignorant nastiness of it all, including the comments thread. Surely, no regular here is going to object to a full and frank exchange of views, once facts, reason and respect are evident. That said, the comments I read about Father Gruner really do plumb the depths.
Maybe someday, Mrs Bogle will have the good grace to apologise for this shameful attack on the reputation of a good and holy priest. One of the bloggers over there asked her about the Ronald Knox Bible translation. Well, the good Dame could start by reading James 3:6.
In less serious matters than the character assassination of a holy priest and the Message of Our Lady at Fatima, a policy of barely contained indifference towards utterances such as Mrs Bogle’s might be no harm. Reliance on such ad hominem attacks rather that facts and reasoned argument are usually a giveaway. I think we should take them as a concession towards the justification of Father Gruner’s Apostolate.
As Mgr. Rudolf Graber, Bishop of Regensburg, wrote thirty nine years ago:
“What happened over 1600 years ago is repeating itself today, but with two or three differences: Alexandria is the whole Universal Church, the stability of which is being shaken, and what was undertaken at that time by means of physical force and cruelty is now being transferred to a different level. Exile is replaced by banishment into the silence of being ignored; killing, by assassination of character.” – Athanasius and the Church of Our Times, p. 23.
I’m mindful of the respect due to the office of one of the princes of the Church, but Cardinal Burke has let himself down very badly, in my eyes. Allowing, at a stretch, for the dubious possibility that the Cardinal is badly briefed on the long running, and utterly unjust persecution of Father Gruner, his other reported comments demonstrate an extraordinary and woeful attitude towards the promotion of Our Lady’s message at Fatima. The time for towing the discredited Party Line passed long ago.
Would His Eminence care to explain why exactly Hans Kung is still a priest in good standing, with faculties, as I read a few months ago? Would he care to comment on the standing of the German episcopal porn barons?
I’m also mindful once again of the words of St. Basil the Great at the height of Arianism:
“Only one offense is now vigorously punished, an accurate observance of our fathers’ traditions. For this cause the pious are driven from their countries and transported into the deserts.” Epistles of St. Basil, n. 243
If Mrs Bogle was to read the Catholic Truth Newsletter and follow the advice of Westminster Fly and Clothilde on reading material, she might be saved from parading her ignorance in public, to the benefit of her readers. Maybe we should make allowance for the present Pontificate. Many of the neocons and false friends of Fatima appear to be doing such contortions in the process of defending the indefensible that the supply of blood to their brains appears to have been impeded.
Pope Francis’ recent ceremony did not mention the words Consecration or Immaculate Heart of Mary, let alone Russia. As has been regularly pointed out on this blog, Pope John Paul himself, who did no less than six Consecrations or entrustments, made clear on 25 March 1984 that Russia had not yet been consecrated. For slow learners and the ignorant, here’s a useful teaching aid:
http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr83/lf173insert.pdf
So, what are we to make of Mrs Bogle’s assertion that the evidence of “Russia’s conversion…is now overwhelming”. Well it’s a point of view; a point of view that flies in the face of all the repeatedly presented evidence. Taking just one example, it’s a point of view that is totally contradicted by the evidence of Father Joaquin Alonso, probably the foremost Fatima expert of the 20th century, who had many interviews with Sister Lucy. In 1976 he wrote:
“…we should affirm that Lucia always thought that the ‘conversion’ of Russia is not to be limited to the return of the Russian people to the Orthodox Christian religion, rejecting the Marxist atheism of the Soviets, but rather, it refers purely, plainly and simply to the total, integral conversion of Russia to the one true Church of Christ, the Roman Catholic Church.” – quoted on page 271 of The Devil’s Final Battle, edited by Father Paul Kramer.
Such is the Conciliar madness engulfing the Church at present, that the foremost and most outspoken defender of Christian civilisation in the world today appears to be the KGB man who leads Russia. A number of commentators have made the observation that Russia is possibly being materially prepared for the great work of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. I’m inclined to agree with them. But please, can we be spared this baseless and foolish talk about “conversion” having happened.
If anyone isn’t aware of what Father Gruner is up against, this recounting of his recent experience at the Vatican should open their eyes, if not boggle their minds. This is like something out of Stasiland.
I wonder if Cardinal Burke has any comments to make.
http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/477a274fa3719f96ef3924ab8fa6bc3a-152.html
Leo,
Thank you very much for post of your recent posts. I know you’re swamped right now with day job work, so these two extremely informative posts are very welcome.
I’ve yet to study the videos on the link from your latest post, but will do so asap. Looks very interesting indeed and I do know that Fr Gruner is persecuted big time. His persecutors have no shame. It’s such a pity that Joanna Bogle has chosen to add her name to the list
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