General Discussion (3) …

General Discussion (3) …

The General Discussion thread will always remain at the top of the page.  Links to previous discussion thread appended.   New articles, newest first, will appear below…

If there’s something of interest in the news that’s not covered in one of the topic threads, or you have a question to ask, a comment you’d like to make about anything under the sun, more or less, this is the thread for you. However, please check first, to ensure that you haven’t missed a topic thread. Readers have occasionally gone straight to the General Discussion thread to post news that is already the topic of a thread or to ask a question that is already being discussed elsewhere. So, do your Sherlock Holmes before posting here, please and thank you!

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Enjoy!

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Comments (501)

  • Lionel (Paris)

    Liturgy: for a sound and balanced initiation and liturgical formation (ZENIT 21 février 2014)
    Paris, 22nd February 2014
    Peut-être vaudrait-il mieux que l’on commence par enseigner le catéchisme de l’Église catholique aux générations postconciliaires? Benoît XVI a rédigé et publié un “COMPENDIUM ABRÉGÉ PRATIQUE OFFICIEL DU CATHÉCHISME DE L’ÉGLISE CATHOLIQUE”, lequel a vite été enterré et l’on n’en a plus entendu parler… Les Autorités de l’Église préfèrent-elles les élucubrations des dirigeants et adeptes de la secte “néocatéchuménale”? lesquels se prennent en toute modestie pour “le Chemin, la Vérité et la Vie”, autrement dit, pour Jésus-Christ Lui-même… Beaucoup de jeunes vont communier sans même savoir ce qu’est l’Eucharistie; ils croient probablement qu’il s’agit seulement d’un pain bénit que l’on partage, un peu comme quand on prend l’apéritif…
    Je descends de la Basilique du Sacré Cœur et j’ai constaté que toutes les religieuses réunies à Montmartre communient debout et dans la main.
    Si l’on veut vraiment ré-évangéliser les populations, il faudrait absolument réintroduire le “sens du sacré”.
    La “désacralisation”, imposée par les évêques réunis en Concile, a ruiné la liturgie et la Messe célébrée dans le rite dit “ordinaire” ne l’est pas avec le respect dû au Seigneur Tout Puissant, chacun n’en faisant qu’à sa tête!…
    Ce sont les mêmes personnes traitant les traditionalistes de schismatiques, qui méprisent l’Autorité Souveraine du Saint Père en ne tenant aucun compte de ses directives ni de celles des Dicastères. Jamais, la parabole de la paille et de la poutre n’a été aussi bien illustrée: “pourquoi vois-tu la paille qui est dans l’œil de ton frère et n’aperçois-tu pas la poutre qui est dans ton œil à toi?” (Évangile de Luc, 6, 41)!…
    Avant de procéder à “l’unité des chrétiens de toute obédience”, ne vaudrait-il pas mieux restaurer “l’unité parmi nous, les catholiques”, en cessant de scandaliser notre entourage? comme cela se passe sans interruption depuis un demi-siècle.

    TRANSLATION:

    Perhaps would it be better that one begins by teaching the catechism of the Catholic Church to the post-conciliar generations? Benedict XVI wrote and published a “PRACTICAL COMPENDIUM OF THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH” which was quickly buried and no one has heard anything anymore… Would the Authorities of the Church rather prefer the rantings of the sectarian leaders and followers of the “Neocatechumenal” sect? who, in all modesty, think they are “the Way and the Truth and the Life”(John 14:1-12), in other words, Jesus Christ Himself… Many young people will receive communion without even knowing what the Eucharist is, they probably believe that it is just a blessed bread that we share, like when you take a drink…
    I come down from the Basilica of the Sacred Heart and I found that all the nuns gathered in Montmartre receive communion standing and in the hand.
    If one really wants to re-evangelize the people, it would be essential to reintroduce the “sense of the sacred”.
    The “desecration” imposed by the bishops assembled in council, has ruined the liturgy and the Mass celebrated in the rite called “ordinary” is not with due respect to the Almighty Lord, each one making what his head commands!…
    These are the same people treating the traditionalists schismatic, who despise the Sovereign Authority of the Holy Father in ignoring His instructions and those of the Congregations. Never, the parable of the mote and the beam was so well illustrated: “why beholdest thou the amote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?” (Gospel of Luke , 6, 41)!…
    Before proceeding to “the unity of Christians of all denominations”, would it not be better to restore “unity among us, Catholics” by ceasing to scandalize our environment? as it has happened continuously for half a century.

    February 23, 2014 at 4:27 pm
    • editor

      Lionel – absolutely correct. The crisis in the Church needs to be overcome before there can be a united Christendom. The Church is already “united” (unity was bequeathed by Our Lord at the beginning) but all those who have dissented and stepped outside, must return, and they must return to the one, true Church of Christ; not the ecumenical counterfeit Church being presented to the public at large today.

      February 23, 2014 at 5:13 pm
      • Lionel (Paris)

        Dear Editor,
        Thank you very much! you perfectly clarified my thought…
        That is exactly what I implied.
        May God Almighty bless you! LD

        February 23, 2014 at 10:45 pm
      • editor

        Thank you Lionel.

        Bededog has asked me to post this video link

        February 24, 2014 at 8:04 pm
  • editor

    Cardinal Vincent Nichols:

    Vatican Radio) Cardinal Vincent Nichols of Westminster says attention to the poor is one of his top priorities for ministry and he announced he’ll be chairing a second international conference in the Vatican on combatting human trafficking.
    (Ed: is this not something for the politicians to deal with? Or is he seeking converts from among the traffickers?)

    Speaking at a press conference on Monday following the consistory in which he received his red hat from Pope Francis, Archbishop Nichols said creative engagement with the business world and a focus on parish life were his other two top concerns.
    (Ed: “creative engagement with the business world? What the heck does that mean? Again, unless he’s seeking converts, what’s the business world to do with him? Is this an excuse to hobnob with the “great and the not-so-good” in order to sympathise over the plight of the poor? Can’t see him persuading business men to part with their millions, can you?)

    Philippa Hitchen reports: 00:04:47:35 Addressing a packed press conference at the Venerable English College, the oldest English institution in the Eternal City, Cardinal Nichols spoke about the strong sense of universal Church he’d experienced over the past weekend and preceding days of discussions with his brother cardinals. He talked at length about their deliberations on family life which will be at the heart of the next Synod of Bishops in October, stressing the need for greater pastoral care for those in difficult family situations. ‘That debate was characterized by a keen awareness of the distress of many people….’
    (Ed: is this another reference to those who are “distressed” because canon law prohibits those who live in a situation of manifest public sin from receiving Holy Communion? )

    Announcing his three priorities as parish life, creative engagement with business and attention to the poor, the new cardinal said he’d be chairing a conference in the Vatican in April focused on the work the Church in the UK has been doing to combat human trafficking ‘This conference brings together Church leaders and law enforcement officers from around the world….
    (Ed: this is sounding more and more like a wing of the nearest political party.)

    Cardinal Nichols also answered questions about ecumenical relations, (Ed: no show without punch) about a recent UN report on clerical sex abuse (Ed: I wonder if he condemns it or skirted around the issue in diplomat speak?) and about ministry to England’s gay and lesbian Catholic community.(Ed: defending the indefensible again)

    Asked what kind of reforms he expects Pope Francis to introduce, the cardinal said he sees this pontificate in terms of a radical renewal which challenges each and every member of the Church…. ‘I think he’s a Pope of startling radical renewal of the Church……’
    (Ed: that’s the problem. )

    February 25, 2014 at 8:41 am
    • Lionel (Paris)

      Dear Editor,
      C’est la samba autour des décombres!…
      This is the samba around the ruins!…

      February 25, 2014 at 9:14 am
  • Miles Immaculatae

    Avoid Michael Voris and Church Militant TV.

    He has publicly warned people not to read literature by Mr Christopher Ferrarar, Mr Michael Matt and Mr John Vennari. He compares theirs and similar outlets and literature to “pornography” and “sedevacantism”!

    It is our judgment (on what authority?) that most Catholics (‘idiot’ Catholics like us no doubt, who don’t own tailored suits or have a Bachelor of Sacred Theology degree, of which having one he is very eager to make known) should not read articles and essays such as those above by Christopher A. Ferrara and John Vennari, nor similarly themed articles and essays available elsewhere. We also believe that such articles and essays should not be published anywhere for public consumption but, rather, reserved for those capable of reading such without risk of damaging their faith in the Church and the Vicar of Christ. We make these recommendations for the same reasons that we discourage people from visiting sedevacantist and pornography web sites: they are potential occasions of sin (emphasis added) — Michael Voris

    Original source: http://angelqueen.org/2014/02/25/voris-warns-fans-do-not-read-j-vennari-or-m-matt/

    He has pretty much disowned the Fatima Center, Catholic Family News and the Remnant. Three of the most influential traditional lobbies in the English speaking world. In doing so he has shot himself in the foot, I can’t see him lasting much longer. I don’t use this term very often, but he is a neo-Traditionalist. The ‘high-church’ variant of neo-Catholicism, an unpleasant hybrid I’m sure you’ll agree.

    I am not surprised. For a while now I have gotten fed up with Voris’ hypocrisy. He prides himself and his enterprise for being ‘manly’ and ‘courageous’ for criticising the hierarchy and the modernist establishment. And imploring people to do the same, or else risk losing their manhood or being cowards. But since by his silence he has castrated himself his bravado accounts for nothing. He has not once mentioned anything about the disorientation coming from the See of Peter. Not once. I have a theory why this is. He is too closely associated with Fr Edward Perrone, parish priest of the Assumption Grotto Catholic Church in Detroit. A traditional Mass centre. Here’s what Fr Perrone says:

    Here I believe is a key to understanding the atypical papal acts of Pope Francis. He’s trying to teach the Church that charity has to be a truly human and Christian response to neighbor and not mere good talk or the writing of a check. God who is Love became man in Christ doing the works of love; so must a Christian act, in love. When people criticize the Pope for this or that odd thing he may do, failing to comprehend the example and lessons of charity he’s offering, one wonders about such a person’s spiritual life. Attacking another’s real or perceived faults can be but one other effective way to divert attention away from one’s own personal defects.

    Ludicrous.

    Original source: http://www.harvestingthefruit.com/understanding-the-atypical-papal-acts-of-pope-francis/

    I have been displeased with CMTV for some time. The content is repetitive and bland. We all know the American bishops are bent. Can he go a little deeper? His analysis of the crisis is superficial.

    February 25, 2014 at 3:43 pm
    • gabriel syme

      Avoid Michael Voris and Church Militant TV.

      He has publicly warned people not to read literature by Mr Christopher Ferrarar, Mr Michael Matt and Mr John Vennari.
      ———————————-

      I apologise if I am wrong, but I do wonder if that angel-queen link is an attack on Voris.

      Christopher Ferrara was a guest on one of Voris’ shows (mic’d-up) in August 2013. The show was about the difference between conservative and traditional. The blurb said Voris “welcomes” Mr Ferrara. (I didn’t see/hear the show myself).

      Could Voris really have changed his opinion about Ferrara, so strongly and so quickly?

      The angel-queen link does not give a link to the Voris web page it claims to quote. That’s a bit dodgy in my opinion and severely undermines the credibility of the claims.

      It also claims in the headline that Voris attacked Michael Matt, but Mr Matt is not even mentioned in the main article, only Ferrara and another man, Vennari, (who I have never heard of).

      I would not accept the claims against Voris, unless we can see it on one of his own websites. I would advise taking the angel-queen claims with a heavy dollop of salt.

      February 25, 2014 at 4:31 pm
      • gabriel syme

        Also, in September 2013, Voris shared a stage with Ferrara at the “Catholic Identity” Conference in America.

        I cant see how – in just 6 months or so -Voris could go from giving Ferrara airtime and publicly sharing a platform with him, to comparing his output to pornography and – having done so much to help promote Ferrara – suddenly warn people against him.

        February 25, 2014 at 4:38 pm
      • Miles Immaculatae

        I know he did.

        February 25, 2014 at 8:46 pm
      • Miles Immaculatae

        I am sorry if you have been positive about Voris and are now disillusioned. I once felt the same, indeed, he helped me a lot in the past. I must be grateful for that.

        February 25, 2014 at 9:19 pm
      • Miles Immaculatae

        It is not an attack on Voris.

        Angelqueen is a respectable blogger, not inclined to vitriol. She certainly wouldn’t fabricate direct speech and attribute it to someone else.

        She has done nothing but quote exactly what CMTV themselves have said. Although she does say

        Hat tip to ECS and others, years back, who called this Opie Dopie-funded “newsman” out…

        But then I agree with her. I remember what Voris used to be like. He said the documents of Vatican II were beautiful. He was very much in the neo-Catholic camp. I thought he was evolving, but unless he retracts, this is as far he will go. And that is not enough.

        http://www.churchmilitant.tv/faq/papalcriticism.php

        That fact Voris has previously endorsed people from whom he now disassociates suggests a betrayal. Such an action demonstrates the conviction underlying what he has said. Betrayal is not an unfair word, bearing in mind these persons gave Voris credibility to a wider audience, including many of us, and this benefited him and his business, and he should be grateful for that.

        One ought to include John Salza and Robert Sungenis in this list, as they have freely contributed to the advancement of Voris’ enterprise as well.

        CMTV mention similarly themed articles and essays available elsewhere, so we can reasonably and fairly include Michael Matt. I don’t think that is dishonest.

        Based on what CMTV has said, it can be deduced that they are now opposed to specific views of Louis Verrecchio even. He is losing all his friends. If he carries on like this, as I said, it will be the end of him.

        This is a sudden turnaround, as you say, but no less of a turnaround.

        One thing Voris’ new adversaries all have in common is that they promote the true message of Fatima. All of them. Voris has never done this, at least not beyond a superficial level, i.e. he has never once mentioned ‘consecration of Russia’, ‘chastisement’, ‘third secret’ and this makes me very suspicious.

        How can someone who sets themselves up as an apostle against the crisis not make Fatima the primary centre of their activity?

        I regret having given Voris the benefit of the doubt.

        February 25, 2014 at 9:14 pm
      • Miles Immaculatae

        I have just learned that Voris is financed by Marc Brammer, the owner of ChurchMilitant.TV. I was under the impression Voris owned this enterprise, but it transpires Voris’ own company (Saint Michael’s Media) is contracted by Brammer.

        Brammer is also a business developer, and a member of Opus Dei.

        I am afraid Voris has now lost all credibility for me. I have had experience with Opus Dei centres, members and literature. I am a former co-operator (a non-member), and my spiritual director for three years was a member of the Priestly Society of the Holy Cross (the clerical branch). All I will say, is that I am not a fan of Opus Dei, not one bit.

        I wish I had known this.

        I affirm what I say above. Avoid Michael Voris and Church militant TV.

        Original Source:

        http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120213/NEWS05/202130357/Views-on-provocative-Real-Catholic-TV-station-anger-Detroit-archdiocese-and-others

        February 25, 2014 at 10:40 pm
      • Miles Immaculatae

        It gets worse…

        I have just learned that the priest who led Michael Voris’ cruise ship retreat last year was non other that Fr Paul Nicholson. (‘Year of Faith Retreat at Sea – 2013’)

        Fr Nicholson was the author of this video, wherein he exercises fratricidal hatred of the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X:

        February 25, 2014 at 11:04 pm
      • Miles Immaculatae

        I have just learned that Fr Nicholson is an Opus Dei priest.

        The plot thickens.

        http://www.opusdeiblogs.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=77&Itemid=108

        It makes you wonder what kind of polemics regarding the Society that Opus Dei teaches to its members.

        February 26, 2014 at 12:17 am
  • perpetuafelicitas

    Miles Immaculate,
    Can you expand more on why you are not a fan of Opus Dei?
    Have you only come to this conclusion about Michael Voris since his statement on not criticising the Pope?

    February 25, 2014 at 11:01 pm
    • Miles Immaculatae

      I have been dissatisfied with CMTV for a while, so no, it wasn’t just his recent silence RE: the Pope. The point I make is that I have given up with patience, i.e. the idea Michael Voris should be given time to evolve since he is a Traditionalist at heart really and he is just finding his way on the journey, like we all have. This was not a foolish position to take. I have seen Voris evolve since 2009 and I had hopes it would continue. He has also, as I mention above, received support from some prominent Traditional laymen. I firmly believe we should be supportive to those who are disorientated, because I was once one of them, and people can evolve, like I did. But I hold no such hope for Voris any more. He has chosen his side. I consider him part of the problem.

      I would prefer not to discuss my views on Opus Dei, as I say, I don’t like them.

      February 25, 2014 at 11:12 pm
      • editor

        Miles Immaculatae,

        Until I read the actual statement on the Church Militant TV website myself, I just couldn’t believe what I was reading here. Thank you for alerting us to this sad turn of events, Miles. A reader did send me the Angelqueen link by email earlier, but the full implications of it didn’t really hit home at the time.

        I am totally stunned by this. I don’t see every Voris video, but the ones which caught my eye – in recent times – have been impressive. I saw him going from a firm declaration that RealCatholicTV (as they were at that time) would never enter the “Mass debate” to being outspoken about liturgical abuses and what appeared to me to be a preference for the TLM.

        Perhaps the same thing will happen in this case. Maybe he’ll go from “no public criticism of the Pope” (which is to sin by omission, in that we have a prophetic duty to warn others of spiritual danger) to being outspoken about the errors of Pope Francis as they arise (which they do by the nano-second.)

        I can’t express my disappointment sufficiently. I’ve been trying to use his videos more often recently – but no more. And to call the SSPX “soft sedevacantists”?! Unbelievable.

        I can’t help thinking that this may be a fear of losing financial support. Perhaps his drift towards Catholic Tradition rang alarm bells in the heads of his financial backers.

        How very sad, if that is the case. Throughout history, it seems, the problem of the thirty pieces of silver is never far from the surface.

        REMINDER …

        This comment is number 493, and I’ll be closing this thread when it reaches 500, so be aware of this and try not to be cut off in mid-sentence!

        February 25, 2014 at 11:38 pm
      • Miles Immaculatae

        You madam, are an ecclesiastical pornographer!

        February 26, 2014 at 12:22 am
  • pewcatholic

    So Michael Voris is linked to Opus Dei. Thanks, Miles, for this information. I was beginning to like Voris, but no longer. My personal experience of Opus Dei leads me to distrust anything they sponsor. Ah well, back to the drawing-board …

    Hope I make it before the shutters come down, Editor! 🙂

    February 26, 2014 at 12:14 am
    • editor

      You just did, Pew Catholic!

      February 26, 2014 at 9:30 am
  • Miles Immaculatae

    Cardinal Burke, long hailed as one of the Traditional Cardinals, and the most Traditional bishop in the United States, has recently released this article in defence of Pope Francis:

    http://www.osservatoreromano.va/en/news/popes-radical-call-new-evangelization#.Uw00nvl_vmY

    Cardinal Burke supports CMTV. In fact, he is one of the very, very few American bishops who does. He might even be the only bishop.

    http://www.catholic.org/prwire/headline.php?ID=4636

    As the Americans say, go figure!

    February 26, 2014 at 12:34 am
  • 3littleshepherds

    I do think it’s odd that the Fatima Center is running a Lyndon Larouche video and the Socci opinions.

    February 26, 2014 at 3:34 am
  • editor

    I’m about to close down this thread now, folks, so continue over on General Discussion page no. 4…

    February 26, 2014 at 9:31 am
  • Miles Immaculatae

    Update on Church Militant TV:

    Another SSPX supporter has emailed CMTV and has received a response from Simon Rafe of CMTV. Rafe’s responses are in bold:

    Dear REMOVED,

    > Pope Benedict XVI
    > does not agree with your assessment of the SSPX.

    Our assessment of the status of the SSPX is that they are invited to discover the path to full communion and that their ministers have no canonical standing and cannot legitimately exercise any ministry. These are the exact words of Pope Benedict XVI.

    > Thirdly, I am troubled by the close relationship Churchmilitant has with
    > Father Paul Nicholson.

    ChurchMilitant.TV has no formal, public association with Fr Nicholson – he is a personal friend of many of our staff, and previously appeared in a show on our site. Fr Nicholson is an excellent and holy priest, and his statements on the SSPX are superb and entirely accurate. Having personally participated in some of the discussions on his Facebook page about this, I find nothing in error with his statements and – speaking personally – much evidence for a general lack of charity from SSPX supporters.

    All of your other points are ones addressed in the statement you have read and disagreed with. There is nothing more to be said.

    God bless,

    Simon

    February 26, 2014 at 9:31 am

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