Is This Priest Really In Good Standing?
A women’s ordination group will hold their annual meeting in a Catholic church for the first time in their history.
Catholic Women’s Ordination (CWO), which was founded in 1993, announced in their latest newsletter that their next annual gathering is due to take place at St Nicholas of Tolentino Church in Bristol.
They described the news that the gathering was taking place in a Catholic church for the first time as “historic” adding that their meeting, on 4 October, will focus on the theme of women in the diaconate.
“This appears to be a subject in the air at present and poses the question: could it be opened to women in the future and if so would members of CWO support the idea?” the newsletter stated.
The question of whether women could be ordained deacons has long been discussed and was recently advocated by then Archbishop of Freiburg and Chairman of the German Bishops’ Conference, Robert Zollitsch, who suggested a specific office of deacon for women.
Fr Richard McKay, the parish priest of St Nicholas Tolentino, said he was happy for the parish to host the meeting and personally supported the ordination of women.
“I understand not everyone would agree – that’s not a problem. But I do think it is a problem that you are not allowed to debate and discuss the matter.”
In 1994 Pope John Paul II said that the Church had no authority to ordain women and that this view “is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.”
On women’s ordination Pope Francis has said: “the Church has spoken and says no … that door is closed.” Source
Comment
Fr McKay opines that “it’s not a problem” if people disagree with him on the ordination of women. Wrong. It’s a huge problem. Or rather, he’s the problem. I will send him the link to this thread, in the hope that he comes on to explain why we should regard HIM as a “priest in good standing” when he’s disowned definitive Catholic teaching on male-only priesthood, while SSPX priests – who’ve never denied a single doctrine of the Faith – are in an “irregular situation”, falsely labelled “schismatics”. Just curious…
Comments (42)
I can’t say I’m in the slightest surprised at this priest opening his church premises to radical feminists. The modernists are emboldened now, since Pope Francis was elected, and they know they will not be brought to book for their dissent. The Bishop in Clifton is not exactly a dyed in the wool traditionalist.
It’s laughable though that if Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice wanted to use that same church for one of their conferences, they’d be sent packing.
Lily,
“…if Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice wanted to use that same church for one of their conferences, they’d be sent packing.”
Very good point. Maybe I should contact Daphne McLeod and suggest she puts in a request.
Lily,
Bishop Declan Lang (Clifton) is an out and out liberal. He’s never going to disagree with Fr McKay.
Take a look at this old Rorate Caeli blog. It takes some believing
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/07/fancy-being-chief-executive-of-clifton.html
There are a lot of Catholics who, at one time thought the SSPX were off the wall. Now quite a few have come to the conclusion themselves that it’s not them who are the schismatics.
It’s worth thinking about this, too: if that priest doesn’t accept Catholic teaching on the priesthood being reserved for men, then what else doesn’t he believe? I could make a list and it would contain all the “controversial” issues.
Nicky,
Excellent point. No prizes for guessing what would be on that list.
Equality does not apply to the Priesthood.It is a calling from God.The Church is of Supernatural origin.What part of “Do not have the authority”doesn’t he understand.
Tirrey,
It’s the false belief that the priesthood is a means of being “in power” that kick started the daft women’s ordination movement in the first place. Instead of priests pointing out what you have pointed out – that it’s nothing to do with being in a position of human power but is a calling from God to men, which the Church does not have the authority to change, instead of saying that, these weak and poorly formed priests go along with the revolution acting the part of the useful idiots.
As you say – “what part of ‘the Church does not have the authority…'” does Fr McKay not understand?
At a wild guess, I’d say “none of it” – priests in the aftermath of Vatican II have not been properly formed or taught. They have only a superficial grasp of the nature and purpose of the Church – in fact, they’ve been so MAL-formed, most of them, that they think the Church’s purpose is to make the world a better place. I once heard a young priest say at Mass one Christmas, that “Christ came to earth to show solidarity with the poor.” Gimme strength, I thought. And not one head turned in that congregation. Nobody, literally, turned a hair. I know that for a fact, because my head was turning in all directions to see if anyone was remotely surprised at his heresy. So I know, not one person in that congregation turned a hair. It’s unbelievable how fast the Church has collapsed around us this past fifty years.
How anyone can dismiss Fatima as “a private revelation” when the truth of it is smacking us in the mouth day and daily, just amazes me. Moi is amazed.
Is he in good standing with the disoriented Church? Apparently. Is he in good standing with God? Not hardly.
GreatPretender51,
That’s it in a nutshell – he is in good standing with his “liberal” bishop and the rest of the disoriented Church, as you so cleverly describe it, but not with God.
I made that very point in my email to Fr McKay, when I contacted him with the link to this thread.
Not that he’s likely to take up my invitation to (essentially) come on here and defend himself.
I mean, how DOES one defend the indefensible?
For the neo-Catholic, superficial unity is the mark that supersedes all else: faith, reason, truth, tradition, revelation, Catholicism. So yes, according to their premise, this priest is in good-standing, and the SSPX remain not so.
In holding these ideas of false unity and false obedience, it is the neo-Catholics who are the true “ideologues”, as Pope Francis puts it.
Well said, Miles Immaculatae.
Or, put another way…
Spot on ❗
“On women’s ordination Pope Francis has said: “the Church has spoken and says no … that door is closed.”
At least the Pope is standing over that teaching and not giving any false hopes. We should give credit where it’s due.
My personal experience of Clifton Diocese is that Fr, McKay is one of many with the same pre-disposition toward anti-Magisterium opinions – not to mention the plethora of ‘pretend clergy’!
The fact is, the majority of Catholics, even those who practise, hold views that mean they would like changes — ones that would change the face of Catholicism. The ordination of women is just one of them. That is how it is. I hear it all the time, and so will you unless you mix in very select circles.
I have always found it the height of arrogance for people who do not suscribe to a Church’s beliefs, to presume that therefore the same truths should be altered to accommodate what they believe.
I”ve always thought they should do the decent thing and find a church that teaches what they want to hear.
Many priests and lay people of the archdiocese of St Andrews and Edinburgh have been openly saying and agitating for change for a long time now, and could do so with impunity because of the Cardinal’s position, which meant he was either in agreement, or compromised so that they could do or say what they liked.
But now, people perceive that there is a POPE who seems to be giving them carte blanche to openly demand changes so things can only get ————— worse!
I only hope and pray this pope disappoints the liberals.
Incidentally there is a good explanation of liberal. traditional etc. a little while ago on the “Catholic Collar and Tie blog” .
“I”ve always thought they should do the decent thing and find a church that teaches what they want to hear.”
And so say all of us! I couldn’t agree more, Spero. I wish they would disappear to some Protestant church because they are just causing division in ours. That priest, Fr McKay, should be carpeted by his bishop but it sounds like he’s just as bad. I definitely would not attend his Masses if I was in that parish. He won’t just be preaching heresy about ordination but about plenty of other things as well. God help parents trying to raise children as Catholics these days with all these priests passing off their own opinions as Catholic teaching. They should be ashamed.
Spero,
That’s all very interesting, especially about the Archdiocese of St Andrew’s & Edinburgh. Very interesting indeed. I’m sure things are going on – similar to what is reported here about Bristol – but we just don’t get to hear about them, due to the fact that the culprits keep a low profile. But for how much longer? The dissenters are getting ever more brazen thanks to the “Francis Factor”. It never ceases to amaze me how the accusers of Cardinal O’Brien have not been publicly named which suggests media complicity. They’d sooner enjoy the knowledge that homosexually active priests are at work in (destroying) the Church than enjoy the satisfaction of a scoop. Interesting.
Must check out that blog you mention – Catholic Collar and Tie – but not tonight or I’ll be late for my weekend pubbing and clubbing 😀
You don’t seem the type.
Miles Immaculatae,
You must have missed the Politically Correct class on the day they did ‘Stereotyping’.
Slim, glamorous, etc etc – Of course I’m the type 🙄
Of course, of course, slim, glamorous. I forgot. In fact you’re exactly the type who frequents discotheques.
I don’t understand why these people don’t go and join one of the thousands of religions that would cater for their every need.. Priests like this Fr McKay should be bulleted on the spot. I have seen good men being paid off for being five minutes late for work yet these disobedient r4tbags seem to be untouchable.
No wonder the churches are emptying rapidly.
An American Opus dei Priest, Fr John McCloskey said that all Catholics who disagree with Church teaching should leave the Church. Wise words, but who in the hierarchy will listen?
A thought has been formulating in my mind about this and I have been slow to say it to anyone, but I’m getting more and more worried about these priests who do not think twice about denying doctrine. It makes me wonder how their Masses can be properly valid Masses. How can we be sure they really believe in the Mass, transubstantiation etc. if they pick and choose which doctrines are important and which are not?
At ordinations, don’t priests promise to uphold Church teaching? Surely, if they know they will renege on this, and if in the future they do, would this not render their ordination invalid?
Catholic Convert,
No. It just makes them faithless individuals who lack integrity. That’s all 😥
Maybe in a similar style to the ordinariate, the Anglicans could have a branch for Catholics who want to be more like Anglicans then maybe we could be rid of these clowns! It’s amazing that the liberal left just ignore whatever their ‘man of the year’ says that they don’t like. Somehow they see Pope Francis as a liberal reformer but he has all reminded us that the Church has spoken on this matter and that the door is closed!!!!
Fidelis – technically even if a priest didn’t personally believe in transubstantiation, it would still occur and the mass would be valid…. Maybe you should read up on the idea of Ex Opere operato
Thanks Nolite Timere, I will definitely read up on Ex Opere operato.
I think you’ve misunderstood what you mean by ex opere operato. It refers to the moral worthiness of the minister of the sacrament. Whereas, belief in transubstantiation relates to the sacramental ‘intention’.
For this reason, the validity of Masses offered by priests who do not believe in transubstantiation is dubious: intention is inherent to validity, along with matter and form.
This (dissenting) individual is of great concern to me. If he holds heretical opinions on women priests, than I’ll bet you a dollar to a doughnut he holds heretical views on other issues. I’ve always found from personal experience that ‘catholics’ who support women priests are also likely to support abortion rights and homosexual marriage. I want to know how these (men) got through the seminary? How old is this priest? John Paul II and Benedict XVI (in particular) cracked down on liberalism in seminaries, so this man obviously feigned conservatism or false obedience in the seminary.
I’ve said this a thousand times: Heretical Catholics can receive communion, but people who are to be received into the Church (in 3 months) and who are devoted to Church teaching can’t. They make me sick, actually. Even the liberal Pope Francis is against women priests, so what planet must this moron in Bristol be on?
Catholic Convert,
I’ve had to make a few changes to your post at 10.26pm – please, as I’ve asked before, be careful to observe the house rules. No personal remarks except in the most playful, humorous spirit. It really doesn’t help your argument one little bit. The case against dissenters is cast iron – why weaken it by making unpleasant personal remarks?
Behave yourself 🙄
Yes’m.
Heretical Catholics can’t receive Holy Communion. They compound their sin by doing so. The Church doesn’t affirm their decision to do so.
I had a look at the Tablet website again just now and noticed that the Letters Extra are free to read. I thought this one was notable, and I hope it will not be thought “off topic” if I post it here, but it’s headed “Lonely Priests” and I wondered if it throws any light on why priests start to lose faith and become dissenters, and I say that while agreeing that the seminary formation of the past fifty or more years leaves an awful lot to be desired. http://www.thetablet.co.uk/letters-extra/2/226/0/lonely-priests
Nicky,
Busy people don’t have much time to feel lonely, but I remember a friend of mine once told me that the first year of her marriage was the loneliest of her life. And it was all downhill from there…
Loneliness isn’t solved by having people around but it’s one of the major arguments of the pro-married priests lobby that priests would be more rounded human beings, less lonely or not lonely at all, if only they were free to marry.
The divorce rates in the Protestant churches where they allow married clergy, proves the lie of that particular argument, not that this fact (or anything else) will convince the secular minds which fail to understand the supernatural aspect of the celibate priesthood.
I once met one of the Anglican former priest-converts down south, in England, and he was unmarried. He said that, even as an Anglican, he understood that celibacy and priesthood are inextricably bound up.
We didn’t discuss it, but I’m certain he also understood that male-only priesthood is essential and cannot be changed by the Church. I’ve lost touch with him now or I’d send his phone number to the disgraceful Fr McKay.
I think it is now time for all traditional organisations and blogs to make a request to hold a meeting in Richard McKay’s parish hall to discuss Catholic Teaching. I do not use the title Reverend Father as he does not use it on his blog. http://www.tolentino.org.uk/index.php/father-richard-mckay. Neither does he dress like a priest. It is a very smug blog in which he boasts of his Scottish background. In typical Glasgow fashion, it is time to give him laldy.
Thank you Madam Editor and blog posters for highlighting these dissenters. These dissenters really need to leave the Church and go and join the anglicans where they would feel more at home..
Perhaps we need an online petition to be sent to the Bishops to have these dissident organisations banned from Church premises.
Charles-
‘Neither does he dress like a priest’.
If I see another Priest in civvies, i’ll scream!!!!
Here’s a thought…..
You know these flash mobs we here about popping up all over the place, what about flash mobs of Catholics meeting at “Novus Ordo” masses and saying the Rosary during Mass…..nothing noisy or disruptive, just quietly kneeling near the front with rosary beads on show, eyes shut, concentrating on “participation” by saying the rosary ……how would the Fr McKays of this world react to that……???
Been away and nearly missed this important thread. Very interesting indeed. But if I comment further I’ll have my head bitten off! 🙁
Pew Catholic,
As any informed Catholic should know, the Church has definitively ruled on women’s ordination – it cannot be done, to put it as simply and clearly as possible, so anyone who thinks it can be done and enables dissenters to pursue their cause, as Fr McKay is doing, is manifestly opposing the will of God.
Having your “head bitten off” by moi, is nothing to what will happen to you at your judgment if you continue to play with this particular fire 🙄
One thing I admire about this blog is that unlike Father Z and his ‘yes’ chorus (why does he bother with comments?) you let the dissenters speak, even if they then get blasted!
Spot on, Pew Catholic!
As any half decent teacher will tell you, an educator has to allow the questions in order to give the answers. We just can’t change the answers to suit the questioner! Anyway, you wouldn’t suit the collar – trust me. Not with a sunny smile like yours 😀
This CWO mob are beyond a joke. They probably think of themselves as radical revolutionaries. They probably think they are advancing Vatican II. In reality they are exceptionally self-absorbed and deluded individuals, so caught up in their own importance that they are unable to “let go” of this most-flogged of dead horses.
(“self-absorbed and deluded” – I am turning into Pope Francis, haha!)
Popes remind us, regular as clockwork, that the priesthood is reserved to men. One wonders what it would take to get the message through?
The irony is, most of the people involved in these CWO & similar schemes are not even Catholics (or should I say “not even quasi-Catholic”). Most seem to be Anglican-Feminists. I once saw a Catholic women’s ordination web-page, advertising that membership was ecumenical, which I thought was very rich. I emailed them to ask:
– how many of their members were actually Catholic?
– did they expect to be taken seriously by anyone, other than themselves?
I did not receive the courtesy of a reply, which was telling.
As for this “Richard McKay” character – how generous and gracious of him to concede that its “not a problem” for Catholics to uphold the teachings of the Church. Very gracious indeed.
He says its “a problem” to be unable to discuss and debate things. This seems to be code which implies that things can only ever resolved in favour of liberals/modernists. If tradition / orthodoxy wins, then it doesn’t really win, rather we just have more “discussion and debate”.
His stance here also seems to deny the ability of Popes to define the faith. It seems that Popes cannot make definitive statements, to be upheld by the faithful, given how problematic McKay finds resolution.
I expect McKays motivation here has been that most pressing of concerns to the majority of “modern” priests, to demonstrate how “cool” and “funky” they are via flouting the basics of Catholicism.
The fact that. among prelates, only Arch-ninny of Freiburg, Robert Zoltisch, has advocated any kind of female clergy should tell one all one needs to know. If Robert Zoltisch is advocating ABC, then ABC is the last thing on earth we want!
Gabriel Syme,
I think there is something in what you say about certain clergy wanting to be seen as “cool and funky” but they really need to compare that short-lived prize with the probability of being “hot and bothered” for all eternity. 🙄
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