Catholic Schools – The End?editor
A CATHOLIC primary is set to become the first school to switch denominations in order to stay open.
Sacred Heart RC Primary School, in Lynwood Road, Blackburn, will now come under the direction of the Cidari Trust, which is run by the Diocese of Black-burn, from September.
Talks between the Dioceses of Blackburn and Salf-ord are believed to have lasted almost six months.
Parents of pupils at the school have received a letter from the governors inf-orming them of the news.
A spokesman for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Salford said it was thought it was the first time such a change in status, from one denomination to the other, had taken place.
He said the decision had been taken because falling numbers of Catholic pupils on the roll meant the school, which currently has 189 pupils, was ‘no longer fulfilling its responsibility’ to its ‘Trust Deed’ as a Roman Catholic school.
Nick Kennedy, chairman of governors, said: “This decision secures the future of the school which is wonderful. The school has been struggling for its future for five, or six, years now. Click here to read more
On BBC Radio 2 news yesterday afternoon, the Catholic spokesman was quoted as reassuring parents that there wouldn’t be any real difference in the RE curriculum. That will come as no surprise to any regular Catholic Truth blogger.
So, what now – will other Catholic schools (both primary and secondary) follow suit? Already, some years ago, over 90% of pupils in a Catholic primary school in the south side of Glasgow were Muslims. Shouldn’t the authorities jump before they’re pushed – it is time to admit defeat and allow the Catholic schools in the central belt of Scotland to join the huge number of parishes due for closure? What’s the point of keeping them if the majority of pupils are not from practising Catholic homes or if the majority belong to another religion altogether?
When I recall the dances, spring fairs, Christmas bazaars, tombolas, raffles and whist drives that hard-working Catholic parents organised and supported in order to raise money for the building of Catholic schools, it grieves me to see how these schools are now no longer allowed to teach the Faith due to the presence of non-Catholic pupils.
I think of the martyrs, who gave their lives rather than compromise their beliefs, and yet our bishops, who are not even being asked to spill blood let alone sacrifice their lives, have lain down and allowed our schools to fail in their main purpose.
Those who are seeking to undermine and indeed banish the Kingship of Christ seem to be having a field day in terms of their successes, but all down history there are examples of these “victories” and of how their leaders have been humbled whenever God saw fit.
Let us not lose heart. Christ knows what is happening and He hears our prayers and takes note of our efforts to fight. He will not let us down.
Recite the rosary for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, wear the brown scapular, and put your trust in the Sacred Heart of Jesus. Keep up the fight and do not be seduced into joining that growing band of choristers whose anthem is “Sidewards Christian soldiers”.
I completely concur with your assessment of our wimpish bishops. If they had been doing their job this situation would never have arisen where a Catholic school is handed over to an Anglican body. The fact that the parents are OK with it, as the school is “saved” tells us what the apostasy looks like in that diocese.
The parents are more concerned to keep the school because of its academic reputation and don’t care about the loss of the Catholic ethos etc. Shame on the lot of them.
That is something that shocks me, the academic reputation being more important that the teaching of the Catholic faith. There are generations lost to the faith now, that is very clear. I wonder if any of the bishops has a guilty conscience at all or are they all completely blind to what they’ve done?
Indeed, the Diocese of Salford has been, by some unknown wit, referred to as the ‘dead see’. I can tell you that in 2012, there was a Catholic population in Salford of 282,300, with Sunday Mass attendance of 50,000. That is the sorry state that the Salford Diocese is in.
That is actually a good attendance in this day and age.
In Ireland, the land of atheists and filthy comedians, that would be under 9,000 for a similar number.
That’s surprising. I would like to know the stats for Mass attendance per diocese in Ireland, if possible.
I wouldn’t know but I am going by what my brother heard a
(Dublin?) priest say on the radio.
He said that only around 3% of his parishioners attended Mass and he wasn`t unduly concerned about it.
That is the reason only 3% turn up. Because people like him haven`t been too concerned in doing their job for the past
Any other industry = the bullet.
No wonder Ireland is now among the top ten atheist countries in the world.
Backwards Christian soldiers more likely.
More chance of spilling a wee tot of whiskey than blood.
Give it another ten years and it will not be a CofE school that we hand over to but a mosque.
I think you’re spot on. Indeed, on the radio news yesterday, where I first heard about this school, it was reported that a majority of pupils are from the Muslim community.
We seem to be making progress, not content with quoting Lutheran-based biblical translations, we have bloggers quoting Anglican hymns. Like a mighty tortoise moves the church of God, brethren we are treading, where we’ve always trod!
What people in Scotland might not grasp is that, whereas the financial treatment of Catholic (and a very few Episcopalian and Jewish) denominational schools in Scotland is extremely generous, the English system is significantly less so. Scottish Catholics have not contributed one penny-piece, be it by jumble sales or whist drives, to their schools since 1918: salaries and capital expenditure are fully covered. 100%. In England, however, both the indigenous Catholic Church and the Catholic Church have to contribute to capital upkeep and development. Where there are very few children of the original foundation present, trustees are duty-bound to consider whether continuing expenditure is wise or appropriate.
In Great Britain, the Catholic Church is a church of immigrants (be they Irish, Polish, Italian or Lithuanian), who moved to poor areas to better themselves. As they have prospered, they moved on from these areas to be replaced by the next wave of immigrants (be they Muslim, Hindu or whatever). In such a situation the Catholic authorities are duty bound to get the best settlement possible for the earlier investments and to safeguard continuity of the employment of staff and the education of children. Since it falls to the Church of England as the Catholic Church in England to maintain a residual ‘Christian presence in every community’, it is entirely appropriate for the Anglican diocese to find a solution appropriate for the present (and future) residents of the parish. Given the legal complexity of all this, the authorities – and one imagines the National Society must have had a hand in it – deserve congratulations on such an expeditious settlement.
Why be a sourpuss?
“Since it falls to the Church of England as the Catholic Church in England to maintain a residual ‘Christian presence in every community’,”
Keep repeating this nonsense about the C.of E. being Catholic if it makes you happy but no matter how many times you say it, it will never make it true. I rather suspect that you are just saying it to wind people up and therefore you are a typical Anglican. They could start a fight in an empty church.
“[Anglicans] could start a fight in an empty church.”
And all because they can’t find one that’s full 😀
I know a lad (bless him) who maintains that the CofE and Catholics are fully part of the same Church founded by Jesus Christ, and that it is only the ‘obstinacy’ of Catholics that prevents true unity. I fail to see how Our Lord had the CofE in mind when He said to St. Peter (who became the first Pope) ‘Tu es Petrus, and upon this Rock, I build my Church’. I don’t think Our Lord had Henry VIIIs illegitimate divorce in mind. The Church of Rome was created by Christ, the CofE was created by a sexual deviate and megalomaniac King in the 1530s. Also, Anglican ministers are nothing more than glorified social workers as, according the Leo XIII, their orders are ‘absolutely null and uterly void’. Anglicans have no viable Apostolic succession. The entire communion is a pestiferous mindset.
You may know a lad (bless him) who blames the ‘obstinacy’ of one denomination but disunity is down to good old-fashioned sin, our fallen (if redeemed) nature. Our Lord’s prayer was that we all be one, that the world may believe, but, while the sinful pride of bishops of Rome caused the eleventh-century schism, the Orthodox do their bit to keep the fires smouldering. Again, the obduracy of the present senior bishop of Rome derailed Anglican / Roman-Catholic* talks but the Anglican side was too quick to write the whole thing off as not worth the bother. [*Note to censor: the official Vatican body is “Commissione Mista Internazionale anglicana – cattolica romana” (ARCIC), so be careful whose meaning you seek to misrepresent in deleting the ‘Roman’ in Chiesa cattolica romana].
What is rather more bothersome however is such gems as “Henry VIIIs illegitimate divorce” – any budding historian should know Scarisbrick on the case in law and Elton on the elaborate legalism. You may think Henry was a sexual ‘deviate’ (he seems actually to have been no less heterosexual than Cardinal Wolsey or Cardinal Beaton, and a tad more heterosexual than at least one other Scottish cardinal) but, ‘deviate’ or not, he is entitled to his genitive apostrophe on “VIII’s”. Your ‘deviate’ does not impress. The noun is ‘deviant’.
The wooden spoon, however, goes to “He said to St. Peter (who became the first Pope) ‘Tu es Petrus, and upon this Rock, I build my Church’”. So you think a first-century Jew spoke a bizarre mixture of Medieval Latin and Modern English? ‘Build’, present simple not future simple? A Rock not a rock? A Greek writer merely recalled one of the Lord’s little witticisms – a pun which also works in Greek (or Latin or French). So how exactly do you argue this tag is the foundation charter for jurisdiction over the whole of Christendom? Why, if you think it vital, is the point not in John, in the other synoptic gospels or in the rest of the NT? What is your documentation for a ‘Pope’ Peter? How exactly do you suppose the primacy of honour due the apostolic church of Peter and Paul, becomes the jurisdiction of a bishop in the Lateran?
So, Catholic Convert, the respectful submission is: learn to write English, quote accurately and avoid risible opinions. It was once possible to amble about St Giles and strike a pose as The Amusing Recusant but, these days, the Stonyhurst crowd are setting up internet groups to expose abusers and the Old Gregorians are telling amusing anecdotes of that run-away monk being pursued by Interpol”: gives a whole new meaning to ‘Ealing Comedy’. The church catholic can use good historians but half-baked tribal bigotry, expressed in imperfect English will be lucky to get you a 2:2. It is easy enough to play to a Lefebrist gallery here but, from what one sees, most of that lot can neither construe the Scriptures in Latin nor quote them accurately in English. Write as if to impress the Master of Magdalene (the ‘pestiferous’ communion’s representative at Benedict XVI’s last synod). You never know who you will end up getting as your external examiner. I can think of a lad (bless him) who has a lot to learn.
You are correct when you commented about disunity being brought about by the sinfulness of mankind, but needless to say, it was Henry VIII who separated from Rome, due to his desire to divorce his first wife. A Church cannot be founded on a divorce. Catholicism was founded by Jesus Christ. I will quote Matthew 16:18-
‘Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven’- Douay-Rheims Bible.
St Peter became the first Bishop of Rome, with every Pope, up to and including Pope Francis as his successors. How can you deny historical fact? The Church of England, as with all other Protestant Churches, is not, never has been and never will be a legitimately ordained Church. The Church of England was founded for the benefit of man, not to give glory to God. To quote Cardinal Joseph MacRory: “The Protestant Church in Ireland – and the same is true of the Protestant Church anywhere – is not only not the rightful representative of the early Irish Church, but it is not even a part of the Church of Christ”. He was referring to the particular Irish situation, but it can be generalised. Indeed St Cyprian said: “You cannot have God for your Father if youdo not have the Church for your mother”. Protestants therefore are not true Christians, as true faith can only be found in the Deposit of Faith, that is to say, the Catholic Church. That is why the CofE recognises divorce and remarriage and homosexual partnerships. The Church of England was anti-marriage to start with, so the CofE is just bringing things to their logical conclusion. I also fail to see how I am giving ‘risible opinions’. If you are referring to my reference of H.H Pope Leo XIII concerning the validity of Anglican orders, I suggest that you have a read of Apostolicae Curae, when the Pope stated that Anglican orders are “absolutely null and utterly void”. Hence, why I referred to Anglican ministers and ministeresses as glorified social workers.
I personally have never attended a Mass said by a Priest of the SSPX, so I am not part of ‘that’ particular ‘traditionalist’ crowd. I hear Mass said in English, so I am hardly a rabid supporter of Archbishop Lefebvre.
Also, when you referred to ‘Roman Catholic’ in the ARCIC, we do not recognise the ‘Roman’. We are Catholic on this blog. We do not recognise post-reformation branch theory. There is only one universal Church. I’m disgusted at the ARCIC, but given the ‘diabolical disorientation’ prophesied by the Blessed Virgin Mary at Fatima in 1917, the authorities in Rome will put up with anything. Ecumenism is nothing more than a sop to give non-Churches a false sense of legitimacy.
So why are the Catholic schools in the more affluent areas not full to overflowing if Catholics have become so well off, moved and left their empty schools to the Muslims?
As for not paying one penny piece since 1918, you could have fooled me.
Here’s silly me who is paying over £50 per week in rates alone, not to mention paying other taxes every time I move, eat, sleep or drink, thinking I was actually contributing to society. No wonder Ms McDowell thinks I’m half-cracked.
Surely our MPs aren’t stealing all our cash.
Thanks anyway, doctor, for enlightening me.
By the way, if you could send me your address I might send you some blunt saws to be sharpened. I might get you to do my wits also.
The delay is making some sort of reply to your comments was not intended to be rude – work has got this annoying habit of getting in the way of blogging.
It would take an expert on immigrant demography to answer your key question, but it is a fair guess that the great-grandchildren of the miscellaneous Italian, Polish and Irish peasants who brought their foreign religion along with them to nineteenth-century Scotland have adapted their reproductive behaviour to the norms (and technology) of the indigenous population. In many ways the process of assimilation has been a sad loss – it seems that hardly any of the Lithuanian congregations now know their ancestors’ native language.
But UK tax doctrine steadfastly rejects any notion of hypothecation so your GBP 50 per week in rates is to general purposes, not your own denomination’s schools. The 1918 system means that denominational schools are an economic inefficiency, bussing children past the ‘wrong’ school to separate buildings and also make the non-denominational schools less efficient. Most Scots understand the ‘deal’ as the price Labour thought worth paying to buy the Irish vote and you would be hard put to argue that the immigrant communities paid more into the system than they drew out.
The real beneficiaries are of course those teachers who have ring-fenced job opportunities in return for sharpening the wits of the denominational denizens of the central belt. An old saw.
Was the pre-reformation Catholic Church in England and Scotland etc, the one that the CofE claims to represent, a ‘foreign religion’? It is a shame that Catholics adapted their reproductive norms in line with the shameless Protestant population, because if they hadn’t you would probably be extinct, as the Catholics would have outbred you all.
I wouldn’t be surprised if you were a disciple of Ian Paisley. I can almost smell the orange from here.
Why is the Diocese of Salford scratching its head? Is this, the terminal decline of Catholic schools, not a consequence of the massive and crushing loss of faith since Vatican II and the suppression of the TLM? It’s shameful that we have to allow non-Catholics into Catholic schools, because it leads directly to a weakening and contamination of the Catholic faith and mindset. Teachers daren’t teach the true faith because a) they hardly know it and b) they couldn’t teach it due to political correctness and fear of ‘offending’ or showing a lack of ‘respect’ to minorities. They are only Catholic in all but name. It might be best for them all (not just Catholic) to be secularised, and then faithful parents can withdraw them from sex education etc, because as people have said on this blog, there is little difference between ordinary state schools and faith schools.
I waver between what you say which is closing down all Catholic schools since they’re not working anyway, and keeping them in the hope that when the crisis is over they can be returned to full health, because it might be hard to get them back if we let them go. I don’t know what to think about this but I do sympathise a lot with your suggestion to close them down. The children might be “safer” in non-denominational schools. It’s a tough one to call.
I think the decision won’t be ours to make for much longer – they’ll have to close due to lack of pupils. Catholics are contracepting themselves out of existence, literally.
When the crisis is over, Russia will have been consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, therefore, the true faith will have been restored, and the world will have been converted, hence all schools will be Catholic schools. It won’t be hard to ‘get them back’.
If Russia was converted tomorrow and there was a period of peace Our Lady would still not get the credit despite it being well forecast. .
Too many of the so called world leaders would be lining up to take the credit, like Thatcher and Regan with the fall of communism (although it didn`t fall far) and the Berlin wall.
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if the students, under this new regime, actually learn more about Christianity than they do under the current pathetic excuse for a Catholic education – though this being the Church of England, I’m sure there will be plenty of New World Order propaganda mixed in with it, including environmental extremism and “tolerance” of homosexuality.
But really, since this school is already de facto non-Catholic because of the make-up of the student body and because the Catholic Faith has been all but abandoned within the mainstream Church, this is really merely a rubber stamp procedure from de facto to de jure.
The Great Apostasy continues.
You took the words out of my mouth. The C of E are OK with homosexuality, not even sticking to their opposition to same sex marriages so God help those children. They’re also going to see female vicars around the place and speaking in assemblies etc. It’s completely incredible that not a voice of concern has been heard among any of the staff or parents. As you say, the Great Apostasy continues.
I wonder, when the CofE goes even more crazy and permits wimmin bishops (as far as the term goes given their invalid orders) would the Pope meet a female Archbishop of Canterbury, and refer to her as ‘sister Bishop’? Barmier things have happened……right?
Just wondering what you would call a female “bishop”: Your Feminency”?
What a brilliant suggestion!
Then they could lead the Church Milicent, What? What? What?
“The Church Milicent” – love it!
Good question, GP. Er…..I’d probably call a female ‘bishop’ the same thing I call all women-‘luv’!!!
Works for me – and I might even look forward to kissing her ring! (Unless she was a lesbian, which she probably will be).
If she was a lesbian she might enjoy it!!!!
The problem is one brought up often in this thread and in others before; there are schools which are Catholic in name only. Yet to give up completely on Catholic schools is a big step.Will things change in the future? What about the schools that are doing a good job of imparting the faith?
A few weeks ago in the SCO Professor Finn is reported as having said ” that no matter what percentage of a school’s roll, or it’s teachers for that matter, is or is not Catholic, it does not make the school less Catholic.”
So is he implying that no matter what, even if there are no Catholic teachers, for instance, the school is authentically Catholic? I don’t understand this reasoning.
What then makes the school less Catholic?
So even when the Catholic faith is not observed within the school, is it still Catholic?
So is it so long as the exam results are good, uniforms are smart, discipline is reasonable and charitable efforts are encouraged ( as they are in ALL schools) then that makes them acceptably Catholic?
No use querying the statements by the way: only a certain number of letters from dissatisfied readers are published!
Since the local churches are far from being “Catholic” the schools can scarcely be 100% Catholic.
While we have the new Mass, new Catechism, new Rosary, blah blah, we cannot have fully Catholic schools. And that’s true even if every teacher and every pupil is Catholic.
Catholic schools have always depended on non-Catholic teachers to function. That was true from the beginning and in times past it wasn’t a problem because the non-Catholic staff had sufficient integrity to agree not to undermine the Catholic ethos. Nowadays, the alleged Catholics are the ones undermining the ethos, with a few notable exceptions and those notable exceptions are often persecuted for their trouble – by their Head Teachers and/or their RE overlords in the dioceses.
I’d have had more respect for the diocese in question on this thread if they’d simply closed the school down and left parents to choose where to send their children. To publicise a shift to “another denomination” (as if the Anglican Church is no different from the Catholic Church) is a scandal. Just one more, admittedly, but a scandal nonetheless, given the several generations now of parents who have not been taught the Faith themselves and who will neither grasp the significance of the situation, nor fully (if at all) comprehend the issues. They’ll accept the fob-off that a vague Christianity is still on offer, just as it was on offer in the Catholic school – and the nonsense of it all won’t really register with them. Ignorance, they say, is bliss – although it’s no defence in law. Memo: reflect on Judgement Day…
Neo-Catholics (CINOs – Catholics in Name Only) don’t believe in Judgment Day, so I propose we find something with immediate and disastrous consequences for them to reflect on. After all, in a society based on instant gratification, we should have instant punishment as well.
My point was/is that whether or not they believe in Judgment Day they will have to face it. With bells on.
That’s terrible about the primary school. It’s not a surprise to any of us though is it?
You titled it “Catholic Schools – The End?” I want to draw your attention to this article. I hope you don.t mind but it is related.
Apparently the Catholic Bishops of E&W released a statement assuring MP’s they will NOT be refused Holy Communion for voting for ‘same sex marriage ‘.
This is seismic! surely? This marks the end for me!
Thank you for the link, Burt.
“Well said” Bishop Philip Egan. More power to your elbow, your Eminence.
Taking a leaf from GreatPretender51’s Book of Wit, perhaps our other bishops should be referred to as “their Leminences” after the lemmings racing towards the cliff top?
You’re getting too witty for my own good – “their Leminences”? Love it!
I was posing the question, “is it the end of Catholic schools?” – not “the (absolute) end” of everything. We might well know more about that after 27th April !
Yes, someone posted that news earlier about some numpty called Greg Somebody (probably on the General Discussion thread) – a layman employee of the Bishops Conference, if my memory serves me correctly, who wrote to the MPs and told them to ignore Bishop Egan. What an arrogant pup (Greg, not Bishop Egan!)
I’m reliably but discreetly informed, by those in the know, that Bishop Egan is not treated too nicely by his brother bishops. Having heard some off the record accounts of the nastiness he faces from those charlatans, please understand that my belief that bishops are not due “respect” just because they are bishops, is doubly reinforced and sealed with cellotape. Those who don’t like it, can lump it. With bells on 😀
Apologies, I didn’t realise it had already been discussed elsewhere on the site. I knew what you mean’t about the end of Catholic schools, but I feel that if the report is correct that the bishops have authorized such a statement that it means that the conference of bishops is endorsing mortal sin.
It means the Novus Ordo Church has reached a new low in England & Wales. Meaning Catholicism is almost at an end here.
Not the end of the world. By the way…what’s happening April 27?
I understand. Things do keep reaching a new low.
About April 27th – we’re emphatically NOT going to discuss that here so please do not comment but I was referring to the forthcoming canonisations of Popes John XXIII and Pope John Paul II.
Please do not comment, Burt, or anyone else, on the forthcoming canonisations. We’ve already had one rumpus on this blog due to discussing that topic a while back when they were first announced. We’re holding back publication of the newsletter, due in April but held over until May so that we can report on the event in such a manner that scandal is minimised.
We will definitely be discussing the canonisations on 27th, so please do not think we are ducking the issues. This is not the time, though, so, please do not comment here. Suffice to say that if they go ahead, and while divine intervention is a possibility it is not the normal way God deals with things, then we will truly have reached a new low.
You can say “agreed” if you wish, Burt, but nothing more – please and thank you!
AGREED! and I agree with you about the…………………………. 😀
I knew you would! 😉
I think the dork you are looking for is Greg Pope. I’ve emailed Conor Burns MP for attacking Bishop Egan. When Burnsy replies I’ll put my email on here, along with his (probably) weasely response. I went at him with both barrels.
Well Leprechaun, the way they have stabbed Bishop Egan in the back, and the way they are acting as wolves not shepherds, how about “their Enemyences”? I think this treachery has reached a new low. But it all goes back to the great betrayal of robbing us of the true Mass.
Ed: Catholic Convert, you know the rules about crudity. Even relatively mild crudity isn’t allowed here. Think of it as reparation for the major crudities that are part and parcel of life around us and then do a bit of talking to yourself along the lines: “Behave yourself, Catholic Convert… Editor will get you in the end…” 😀
Still spurred on by GreatPretender’s success with embedding a picture in a thread, I seek to make more tests. If they result in links to pictures rather than actual pictures please remove them directly to spare my blushes.
WordPress is now declining to accept further attempts on the grounds of duplication.
Ed: WordPress can be a pain, Leprechaun, but keep trying – I will delete posts where the experiment didn’t work, worry not.