Pope: It’s Great To See The Church In Turmoil (paraphrasing… slightly)

Pope: It’s Great To See The Church In Turmoil (paraphrasing… slightly)

PopeFrancispensivecroppedVatican City, Dec 7, 2014 / 11:04 am (CNA/EWTN News).- In an interview with the Argentine daily “La Nacion” published Sunday, Pope Francis spoke on a variety of topics, giving specific attention to the ongoing reform of the Roman Curia, and some of the resistance he’s facing. “I am not worried. It all seems normal to me; if there were no difference of opinions, that wouldn’t be normal,” the Pope told Elisabetta Piqué in an interview published in La Nacion Dec. 7.

“Resistance is now evident. And that is a good sign for me, getting the resistance out into the open, no stealthy mumbling when there is disagreement. It’s healthy to get things out into the open, it’s very healthy.”

With topics ranging from his health to future travels and birthday plans, the Roman Pontiff spent most of the 50 minute interview talking about his plan of reform for the Roman Curia, which he said will be an ongoing process that extends beyond the projected finish date of 2015. The Bishop of Rome revealed that he had no expectations regarding the “cleansing process” of the Curia before starting, because “I expected to go back to Buenos Aires.” “After that, well, I don´t know. You see, God is good to me, he’s bestowed on me a healthy dose of unawareness. I just do what I have to do.”

Pope Francis responded to the fact that nearly 21 months after he was elected to as Bishop of Rome, differing opinions are beginning to surface more clearly regarding some of the changes he is implementing. However, the Roman Pontiff said that facing resistance isn’t something to be afraid of, because “to me, resistance means different points of view, not something dirty.” Resistance, he said, “is connected to some decisions I may occasionally take, I will concede that. Of course, some decisions are more of the economic type, and others are more pastoral.”

The Roman Pontiff also addressed comments suggesting that the “honeymoon is over” due to divisions that surfaced during the Synod on the Family held in October, saying that the issue was not so much the Pope as it was differing pastoral positions. This is evident and can be clearly seen by looking at the widespread enthusiasm with which his final speech was accepted, he said.

In regards to media buzz during the synod due to comments by Cardinal Raymond Burke suggesting that the Church is like “a ship without a rudder,” the Pope said that “those expressions strike me as odd.” “I am not aware of anybody using them. The media quote them,” he said, admitting that “until I can ask the people involved ‘have you said this?’ I will have brotherly doubts.”   CardinalBurkesmall

The Bishop of Rome also addressed the appointment of Cardinal Burke as Patron of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, following his six years serving as prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura. Announced shortly after the synod, the decision has drawn speculation from all sides, with many contributing the move to the cardinal’s comments during the synod as well as his staunchly conservative viewpoints on Church doctrine.

Pope Francis said that sometime before the synod Cardinal Burke had asked what he would be doing, since his position as prefect of the Signatura was not confirmed. The Roman Pontiff responded by asking for some time while the Council of Nine cardinals assisting him in Church reform thought about their legal restructuring. “I told him nothing had been done about it yet and that it was being considered. After that the issue of the Order of Malta cropped up and we needed a smart American who would know how to get around and I thought of him for that position,” the Pope said. “I suggested this to him long before the synod,” he continued, explaining that he wanted the announcement to be made after the synod was over so that the cardinal could participate in the discussions. As chaplain of Malta Cardinal Burke would not have been able to be present, he explained. “He thanked me in very good terms and accepted my offer, I even think he liked it. Because he is a man that gets around a lot, he does a lot of travelling and would surely be busy there. It is therefore not true that I removed him because of how he had behaved in the synod.”

The Roman Pontiff also spoke of the continuing reform of the Roman Curia, saying that it’s a slow process and “We’re tackling it little by little.” Pope Francis referred to the restructuring of the Institute for Religious Works, also called the Vatican Bank. He said that it is “operating beautifully” and that they did “quite a good job there.” He revealed that when he was elected Pope he had been planning to retire, and that once he moved to the Vatican he had to start his plans again from scratch, and that everything was new for him. “From the start I said to myself: ‘Jorge, don’t change, just keep on being yourself, because to change at your age would be to make a fool of yourself.’” “That´s why I’ve always kept on doing what I used to do in Buenos Aires. Perhaps even making my old mistakes. But I prefer it like this, to be myself.”  Source


I have to admit, I wouldn’t know where to begin to comment on the above.  So, let’s hear it – what do YOU think of this latest papal interview? 

Comments (33)

  • Bernadette Milliken


    Sent from my iPad

    Ed: a little more detail in your first comment on our blog would be useful! As it is, I’m not sure whether it is something in the papal interview to which you refer or whether you think our reporting it is “evil”! We await your clarification 😀

    December 7, 2014 at 9:13 pm
  • Athanasius

    I read this interview in full earlier today. Like all the statements of Pope Francis, I was left wondering what exactly his game plan is. With the greatest respect, this Pontiff is a bit of a riddler. I also thought he was evasive about Cardinal Burke’s move and the reason for it. I accept the Pope’s word that the Cardinal’s move had “nothing to do with his behaviour” at the Synod, but he did not say if it had anything to do with His Eminence’ part in authoring a book that challenged Cardinal Kasper’s heresy, or the overall stature of this prelate in opposing further liberal reforms. Cardinal Burke’s transfer was a very public demotion and humiliation; there was more to it than the Pope is revealing.

    As regards the Synod itself. His Holiness appeared to be proposing once again that the Church’s defined moral teaching, the unchangeable teaching, should be less rigidly applied by making marriage annulments easier to obtain for such reasons as one or both parties admitting that they did not fully comprehend the commitment they were making when they took vows before God. This is just divorce by the back door. He also tried to put a different spin on that infamous synodal statement about loving homosexuals by saying that it referred to parents concerned about homosexually inclined offspring. This was definitely not what the liberals in the Synod were promoting!

    Then there was the bit about the divorced and remarried. Pope Francis says that Traditionally these people are made to feel excommunicated (practically speaking), which he feels is wrong. So he wants to change things in order that they can do readings at Mass, be Godparents, teach “Sunday school” (?), etc., all of which things are presently forbidden to those living in unrepented mortal sin. He doesn’t mention sin or its consequences on the soul, just people and their comfort. In this respect, he is completely lost as to why the Church imposed such censures on those who dissent from her moral teaching. They were imposed in order to bring the sinner to repentance so that their soul can be saved in eternity. But Pope Francis is more concerned with human feelings than immortal souls, this comes across again and again in his comments. He seems to ignore the supernatural altogether and even believes that the Holy Ghost is the driving force behind this Synod which is discussing ways to get around what the Holy Ghost has already established as infallible truth. If his ideas ever get into mainstream pastoral practice then it is only a matter of time till the divorced and remarried, the homosexually active, cohabiting couples, etc., will be admitted to Holy Communion, or at the very least made to feel perfectly safe in their sinful living. It’s actually not merciful pastorality at all, it’s a huge lie in the making and an abomination before Our Lord.

    One final point. I noted how the Pope spoke of a young cohabiting couple he entered into conversation with. They said to him that they were finally getting married and the Pope says he responded with “but are you sure you’re ready?”

    What! Shouldn’t he have said ‘yes, get married as soon as you can to prevent any further possibility of mortal sin, and make sure you go to confession before taking your vows. Instead, he seems to be offering them the possibility to continue living in sin until they think their ready for marriage. This is incredible and it’s straight from the Pope’s own mouth!

    Anyway, His Holiness says that he’s just going to continue as Pope the way he handled matters in Buenos Aires, mistakes and all. Well, he practically eradicated the Traditional Catholic Faith from Buenos Aires, so hang on tight!

    December 8, 2014 at 12:17 am
  • Margaret Mary


    Thanks for that great analysis of the Pope’s latest interview which I found quite disgraceful.

    Your final example, of him asking the cohabiting couple if they were sure they were ready to get married, just confirms my feeling that he is a very arrogant person. That is the sort of thing people say to make themselves seem very open minded and liberal. This pope doesn’t even try to hide his liberalism. How depressing and saddening.

    I have just posted on the Immaculate Conception thread and I have already offered a special prayer for Pope Francis. IMHO, we could all offer today especially for him, to see the error of his ways.

    December 8, 2014 at 9:48 am
    • Athanasius

      Margaret Mary

      I pray always for the Pope that Almighty God will free him from the Modernism that enslaves his mind, but today is a particularly ‘must pray’ day for the Holy Father. Good suggestion!

      December 8, 2014 at 11:30 am
      • Fidelis

        I agree and have just posted on the Feast Day thread that I am praying the “O Mary conceived without sin” prayer that you posted all day for Pope Francis.

        December 8, 2014 at 12:59 pm
  • JARay

    I am prepared to allow this Pope the possibility that he is really out of his depth and doesn’t know it. I am sure that he has nowhere near the skills and knowledge of Benedict either in Theology or Pastoral ability. He blunders on and thinks that creating a mess is a good thing. He has said as much. Whatever blame can be attributed to his antics for the state of the Church is something which he will have to account for to God Himself. However, it makes me weep when I consider just what he is doing in his tactless blunderings.

    December 8, 2014 at 12:19 pm
    • Fidelis


      “However, it makes me weep when I consider just what he is doing in his tactless blunderings.”

      Me, too. It is really heart-breaking to see the damage this pope is causing to the Mystical Body of Christ.

      December 8, 2014 at 1:00 pm
    • Petrus

      I used to think the pope was out of his depth and didn’t really have the intelligence to be able to carry out his role of Pope properly. However, I’ve now come to the conclusion that things are a lot more sinister.

      Athanasius pointed out that the Pope must be intelligent to have completed the rigorous Jesuit training. I also believe he is a pharmacist. This Pope is no dumbo!

      December 9, 2014 at 6:28 am
  • jobstears

    I don’t know whether the Pope is terribly simple or simply arrogant! Since when has it been a mark of humility to broadcast to the world that you are so pleased with yourself that you see no need to change?

    I agree with Athanasius that this pope “doesn’t mention sin or its consequences on the soul, just people and their comfort”. All he seems to want to do is make everybody comfortable in the here and now as if it is for this world that we were created!

    Maybe this Pope like John Paul II, does not believe there are souls in hell.

    December 8, 2014 at 1:11 pm
  • damselofthefaith

    Has it ever occurred to anyone that this is the Pope that the Masons have been waiting for? He preaches naturalism, as well as the errors of the French Revolution that came out of the Second Vatican Council, Liberty, Fraternity, and Equality. Little to no Catholicism is ever preached by him, true. It is all about making this world a paradise.

    It’s unprecedented. There has never been a Pope like this. The Popes have always guarded and taught the Deposit of Faith for the salvation of souls. What’s frightening about this is how many souls the Pope is responsible for and the God-given duty that he has to save their souls…

    December 8, 2014 at 1:26 pm
    • Athanasius


      Some sedevacantists have claimed that the Popes since Vatican II are Freemasons, but your analysis is actually the correct one.

      The Popes since Vatican II have not been Freemasons but they think like Freemasons and they follow the Freemasonic vision of a paradise on earth. Every ecumenist and inter-religious promoter, whether he is aware of the fact or not, does the work of a Communist and a Freemason. He does not do the work of the Holy Ghost. This is the “diabolical disorientation” of today, Lucifer disguised as an angel of light preaching a new Gospel that is pure naturalism!

      That’s why, on this great Feast of Our Lady, we must pray more intensely for the Holy Father, as little Jacinta of Fatima did, so that His Holiness, like in the miracle of St. Peter’s deliverance from Herod’s prison, recounted in Acts, may be released from the chains of Modernist thought that bind him and blind him.

      December 8, 2014 at 2:05 pm
      • Lily


        That is exactly what is foretold in the Alta Vendita, that the Freemasons knew they would never get a pope to sign up as a Mason but they could get one to be so liberal that he was actually doing their bidding without even realising it.
        The Altar Vendita is a must-read for every Catholic living during the papacy of Pope Francis, because that is exactly what is happening today. http://www.tanbooks.com/doct/destroy_church.htm

        December 8, 2014 at 4:24 pm
      • damselofthefaith

        I’m not sure the origins of this quote, but I thought of it for the topic at hand. I believe it was a letter written by a Freemason in the 19th century on their plans to infiltrate the Church:

        “Now then, in order to ensure a pope in the required proportions, we must first of all prepare a generation worthy of the kingdom of which we dream… Let the clergy move forward under your banner (the Masonic banner) always believing they are advancing under the banner of the Apostolic Keys. Cast your net like Simon Bar Jonas, spread it to the bottom of sacristies, seminaries, and convents. You will have finished a revolution dressed in the Pope’s triple crown and cape, carrying the cross and the flag, a revolution that will need only a small stimulus to set fire to the four corners of the earth.”

        “A generation worthy.” Indeed. Whole nations have lost the Faith for a few generations now. This generation spoken of is a generation that makes itself god and seeks to pull God down off his throne to appease man, to “comfort” man by making him feel good about his sinful life. Is that not what the Pope is doing? As a matter of fact, that appears to be his one and only goal. Heaven is now earth. The Pope wants to turn earth into heaven. I have never heard him preach authentic, Catholic Doctrine. One looks for bread but is instead given stones, given feel-good nonsense that any Protestant pastor would have no problem with. And many lost souls in the Church glorify it because they know not the Faith. The Faith used to be glorious, doctrine and dogma used to be taught, the Sacraments used to be frequented with the utmost devotion, the greatest adoration and reverence used to be shown towards the Blessed Sacrament, Heaven used to be striven for and Hell used to be avoided. But now, it has all been lost and forgotten, except for a few groups here and there, most notably and the most hated because of their truth, the SSPX. The Catholic Faith has been replaced with a naturalized, Protestant religion, doing the bidding of Freemasonry, that has no dogma, doctrine or discipline. This is the sad state of affairs in the Church, until God most mercifully wishes to shorten these days for the sake of the elect.

        On the French Revolution, that infamous Cardinal Leo Joseph Suenens said: “Vatican II is the French Revolution in the Church.”

        December 8, 2014 at 6:44 pm
      • damselofthefaith

        From Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum (On the Immaculate Conception) by Pope Pius X:

        “What truly is the point of departure of the enemies of religion for the sowing of the great and serious errors by which the faith of so many is shaken? They begin by denying that man has fallen by sin and been cast down from his former position. Hence they regard as mere fables original sin and the evils that were its consequence. Humanity vitiated in its source vitiated in its turn the whole race of man; and thus was evil introduced amongst men and the necessity for a Redeemer involved. All this rejected it is easy to understand that no place is left for Christ, for the Church, for grace or for anything that is above and beyond nature; in one word the whole edifice of faith is shaken from top to bottom.

        But let people believe and confess that the Virgin Mary has been from the first moment of her conception preserved from all stain; and it is straightway necessary that they should admit both original sin and the rehabilitation of the human race by Jesus Christ, the Gospel, and the Church and the law of suffering. By virtue of this Rationalism and Materialism is torn up by the roots and destroyed, and there remains to Christian wisdom the glory of having to guard and protect the truth. It is moreover a vice common to the enemies of the faith of our time especially that they repudiate and proclaim the necessity of repudiating all respect and obedience for the authority of the Church, and even of any human power, in the idea that it will thus be more easy to make an end of faith.

        Here we have the origin of Anarchism, than which nothing is more pernicious and pestilent to the order of things whether natural or supernatural. Now this plague, which is equally fatal to society at large and to Christianity, finds its ruin in the dogma of the Immaculate Conception by the obligation which it imposes of recognizing in the Church a power before which not only has the will to bow, but the intelligence to subject itself. It is from a subjection of the reason of this sort that Christian people sing thus the praise of the Mother of God: “Thou art all fair, O Mary, and the stain of original sin is not in thee.” (Mass of Immac. Concep.) And thus once again is justified what the Church attributes to this august Virgin that she has exterminated all heresies in the world.”

        December 8, 2014 at 7:54 pm
      • Athanasius


        It was Cardinal Suenens who illicitly introduced Communion in the hand into the Church and ensured the spread of that forbidden practice. How very telling!

        December 8, 2014 at 9:17 pm
  • Athanasius


    Yes, it applies to all the reforming and innovative Popes since Vatican II, although Pope Francis is by far the most obvious. The root of the problem is that all these Pontiffs went off course when they were young students. They started to read the works of non-Catholic theologians and philosophers whose writings were censured by the Church. They wanted to discover something new and ended up giving the Church a new French Revolution!

    December 8, 2014 at 4:56 pm
  • Frankier

    The Cardinal Burke situation reminds me of the football managers who dread getting the backing of their boards since it always leads to the bullet before the next game.

    December 8, 2014 at 5:23 pm
  • Theresa Rose

    On this feast of the Immaculate Conception, I thought that I had read something to the effect that the pontificate of Pope Francis had been consecrated to Our Lady of Fatima early last year. But it seems this is not so. Pope Francis seems to have asked Cardinal Policarpo, Patriarch of Lisbon to carry out this consecration. Cardinal Policarpo from what is says here in this article, is no friend of Fatima.


    Why did Pope Francis himself not consecrate his pontificate to Our Lady of Fatima. Even better, why did he not command the Bishops to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary?
    What is to be lost?

    December 8, 2014 at 9:49 pm
    • editor

      Theresa Rose,

      That was a very interesting read indeed, especially the exchange between Cardinal Policarpo and the young people of the SSPX. Priceless! So much for dialogue!

      December 9, 2014 at 12:22 am
  • Attono

    It is said that God writes straight with crooked lines. It is also said that God’s ways are not our ways. That been said, is it possible that Pope Francis is an instrument of God, whereby he finds himself down a blind alley one day with his back to the wall, and the only way out is to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary?. I’m not saying this is the case, just scratching my head and ……wondering.

    December 9, 2014 at 12:30 pm
    • Athanasius


      It may well be that Pope Francis will one day find himself in such a situation. One thing is certain, if he ever becomes convinced that the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is necessary, then no one will deter him from performing heaven’s request. He’s that kind of man. At the moment, though, all indicators point to a Pontiff who is completely blinded to the crisis of Faith in the Church and has no real interest in Fatima.

      December 9, 2014 at 1:01 pm
    • editor


      That is almost certainly what will happen, it’s what has more or less been prophesied by Our Lady (“the Holy Father WILL consecrate Russia but it will be late”). Just how much later can it get, I find myself asking over and over again.

      However, I wouldn’t class that as Pope Francis being “an instrument of God”, more that he is brought to his senses by whatever chastisement comes, and either thinks of it himself, or it is put to him as a possible (long overdue) action to appease Heaven. Won’t change the fact that he, like his immediate predecessors, has to answer at his judgment for the horrendous state of both the world and the Church as a result of the diabolical crisis we’ve been suffering for so many years now, the solution to which every pontiff since 1960 has had at his fingertips. So simple to achieve; no excuses for doubting Our Lady’s promise of peace – except their own lack of divine and Catholic faith. At least Pope Benedict admitted openly that he was “too much of a rationalist” to believe that such a simple act of consecration could bring world peace. The rest of them made no excuses, gave no reasons for their refusal to obey Our Lady of Fatima.

      So, scratch your head again and wonder even more – at the sheer audacity of these modern popes.

      December 9, 2014 at 10:54 pm
  • jobstears


    I did not know Pope Benedict admitted he was “too much of a rationalist” to believe that consecrating Russia to Our Lady, as She asked, could bring world peace! Incredible!

    December 10, 2014 at 2:37 am
    • editor


      It incredible, I know. I believe he said that in the book length interview – the same one where he spoke about prostitutes using condoms. Unbelievable stuff. I meant to buy that book but have just not gotten around to it, would you believe!

      December 10, 2014 at 8:15 pm
  • Attono


    Yes, all very perplexing. It’s as if they are in deepest Sahara, (which they are), and all they see around them are beautiful meadows laden with luscious vegetation, and bountiful fruit of every kind,in all it’s rich diversity, to pick and chose whatever takes your fancy. Didn’t Sister Lucy mention a malady known as D.D?.

    So yes, I’ll scratch and scratch,
    What’s left of the thatch,
    And ponder and wonder,
    ‘Till it all falls asunder.

    December 10, 2014 at 7:35 pm
    • editor


      Yes, Sister Lucy did, indeed, speak of a terrible disease known as DD !

      I’m not sure that it (Diabolical Disorientation) lends itself to the world of poetry but if anyone can do it, you can!

      December 10, 2014 at 8:17 pm
  • Steve

    How is jungmann received in traditional circles in the liturgy is he modernist

    December 10, 2014 at 9:52 pm
    • editor


      Jungmann was a leading light at Vatican II. What do you think?

      December 17, 2014 at 12:15 am
  • Vova Borjomi

    Comment removed. Please do not make any such unfounded allegations against Pope Francis or anyone else. We don’t DO “unfounded allegations” here, please and thank you.

    December 11, 2014 at 7:52 am
  • editor

    The following extract from a recent homily of Pope Francis’ is, in my view, utterly astonishing. He accuses the Church of the kind of baloney that is usually peddled by ignorant Protestants…

    Pope Francis recalled how “Pius XII freed us from the very heavy cross that was the Eucharistic fast”:

    “But some of you might remember. You couldn’t even drink a drop of water. Not even that! And to brush your teeth, it had to be done in such a way that you didn’t swallow the water. But I myself as a young boy went to confession for having made the Communion, because I thought a drop of water had gone in. Is it true or no? It’s true. When Pius XII changed the discipline: ‘Ah, heresy! No! He touched the discipline of the Church.’ Read the entire homily report here

    Now, I remember well the 24 hour fast before Holy Communion prior to the Second Vatican Catastrophe and the one exception was that we could drink water right up to the very moment of reception, so either the Church in Argentine went out on a limb with that one and made up its own ridiculous rules, or the Pope – to give him the benefit of the massive doubt in my mind – far from making up a tall story, is suffering from a flawed memory.

    And he must have had a fairly easy life if he thought the fast “a very heavy cross”. The more I read from this pontiff’s lips, the less I trust him. I’ll put it no stronger than that at the present time, but he is pushing my buttons, so watch this space…

    December 17, 2014 at 12:11 am
    • damselofthefaith

      It seems the Pope has no concept of sacrifice. And what a meager sacrifice the midnight fast was.

      If we understood what the Holy Eucharist really was, what would we not do to receive Him?

      It truly boggles the mind, this denigration of what our forefathers passed down to us for generations. But, it’s nothing to the Pope. Unprecedented to have to say but it’s the truth, judging by his words and actions.

      That One World Religion without dogma, doctrine and discipline is becoming more apparent by the day…

      December 17, 2014 at 2:53 am
      • editor


        Yes, and really, the fasting was from midnight the night before receiving Holy Communion. So it just meant waiting until after Mass for breakfast. In my working life, I knew many people who skipped breakfast and came to work unfed, where they would then have a drink of tea or coffee and nothing else until lunchtime. They clearly didn’t see their fasting as any kind of cross, let alone “a heavy cross”.

        December 17, 2014 at 9:45 am
  • Spiritus

    I still keep the midnight fast on Sunday, and I am sure that many other Traditional Catholics would be the same. It is a very small sacrifice to make for such a great gift. I would always try to fast on Ember days and on the eve of the great feasts as was the practice before V2. Sadly the concept of self sacrifice is very rare in our overindulged world.

    December 18, 2014 at 9:52 am

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