Calling All Bishops With Backbone…

Calling All Bishops With Backbone…

ArchbishopLengaCatholic Truth followed up a tip-off, published by a visitor to our blog, that the Archbishop of Glasgow had announced to his priests that if Part Two of the Synod on the Family continued in the same scandalous vein as the first part, then he wouldn’t be [remaining]  as Archbishop of Glasgow.  We checked around and found priests in Glasgow  willing to  confirm that our blog informant was on the button.  Thus, it appears to be the case that the Archbishop of Glasgow, to his credit, is prepared to resign rather than go along with the shocking “pastoral” care proposed by the Kasper Camp.   We are now delighted to report that another Archbishop has shown himself to have sufficient backbone to speak out very publicly on (quote) “the current crisis in the Church”.  Below, is his Open Letter, taken from the Rorate Caeli website

RORATE EXCLUSIVE: Open letter by Archbishop on the crisis in the Church ‘It is difficult to believe that Pope Benedict XVI freely renounced his ministry as successor of Peter.’ ‘I am forced to resort to this public means of expression because I fear that any other method would be greeted by a brick wall of silence and disregard.’ ‘… increasingly evident that the Vatican through the Secretariat of State has taken the course of political correctness.’

Rorate Caeli has obtained an exclusive copy of the English version of a rare open letter from an Archbishop on the crisis of the Church. 

The letter, written by His Excellency Archbishop Jan Pawel Lenga, bishop emeritus of the Diocese of Karaganda, Kazakhstan, hopefully will serve as a much-needed wake-up call to Catholics who have buried their heads in the sand for far too long.

Let us pray more of his brother bishops will have the faith — and the backbone — to stand up and be heard before there’s nothing left to defend.

***

Reflections on some current problems of the crisis of the Catholic Church

I had the experience of living with priests who were in Stalinist prisons and camps and who nevertheless remained faithful to the Church. During the time of persecution they fulfilled with love their priestly duty in preaching Catholic doctrine thereby leading a dignified life in the imitation of Christ, their heavenly Master.

I completed my priestly studies in an underground Seminary in the Soviet Union. I was ordained a priest secretly during the night by a pious bishop who himself suffered for the sake of the faith. In the first year of my priesthood I had the experience of being expelled from Tadzhikistan by the KGB.

Subsequently, during my thirty-year stay in Kazakhstan, I served 10 years as priest, caring for faithful people in 81 localities. Then I served 20 years as bishop, initially as bishop of five states in Central Asia with a total area of around four million square kilometers.

In my ministry as a bishop I had contact with Pope Saint John Paul II, with many bishops, priests and faithful in different countries and under different circumstances. I was member of some assemblies of the Synod of Bishops in the Vatican which covered themes such as “Asia” and “The Eucharist”.

This experience as well as others give me the basis to express my opinion on the current crisis of the Catholic Church. These are my convictions and they are dictated by my love of the Church and by the desire for her authentic renewal in Christ. I am forced to resort to this public means of expression because I fear that any other method would be greeted by a brick wall of silence and disregard. 

I am aware of possible reactions to my open letter. But at the same time the voice of my conscience will not allow me to remain silent, while the work of God is being slandered. Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church and showed us in word and deed how one should fulfill the will of God. The apostles to whom He bestowed authority in the Church, fulfilled with zeal the duty entrusted to them, suffering for the sake of the truth which had to be preached, since they “obeyed God rather than men”.

Unfortunately in our days it is increasingly evident that the Vatican through the Secretariat of State has taken the course of political correctness. Some Nuncios have become propagators of liberalism and modernism. They have acquired expertise in the principle “sub secreto Pontificio”, by which one manipulates and silences the mouths of the bishops. And that what the Nuncio tells them appears as it would be almost certainly the wish of the Pope. With such methods one separates the bishops from one another to the effect that the bishops of a country can no longer speak with one voice in the spirit of Christ and His Church in defending faith and morals. This means that, in order not to fall into disfavour with the Nuncio some bishops accept their recommendations, which are sometimes based on nothing other than on their own words. Instead of zealously spreading the faith, courageously preaching the doctrine of Christ, standing firm in the defense of truth and of morals, the meetings of the Bishops’ Conferences often deal with issues which are foreign to the nature of the duties of the successors of the apostles.  

One can observe at all levels of the Church an obvious decrease of the “sacrum”. The “spirit of the world” feeds the shepherds. The sinners give the Church the instructions for how she has to serve them. In their embarrassment the Pastors are silent on the current problems and abandon the sheep while they are feeding themselves. The world is tempted by the devil and opposes the doctrine of Christ. Nevertheless the Pastors are obliged to teach the whole truth about God and men “in season and out”.

However, during the reign of the last holy Popes one could observe in the Church the greatest disorder concerning the purity of the doctrine and the sacredness of the liturgy, in which Jesus Christ is not paid the visible honour which he is due. In not a few Bishop’s Conferences the best bishops are “persona non grata”. Where are apologists of our days, who would announce to men in a clear and comprehensible manner the threat of the risk of loss of faith and salvation?

In our days the voice of the majority of the bishops rather resembles the silence of the lambs in the face of furious wolves, the faithful are left like defenseless sheep. Christ was recognized by men as one who spoke and worked, as one, who had power and this power He bestowed upon His apostles. In today’s world the bishops must liberate themselves from all worldly bonds and – after they have done penance – convert to Christ so that strengthened by the Holy Spirit they may announce Christ as the one and only Saviour. Ultimately one must give account to God for all that was done and for all what wasn’t done.

In my opinion the weak voice of many bishops is a consequence of the fact, that in the process of the appointment of new bishops the candidates are insufficiently examined with regard to their doubtless steadfastness and fearlessness in the defense of the faith, with regard to their fidelity to the centuries-old traditions of the Church and their personal piety. In the issue of the appointment of new bishops and even cardinals it is becoming increasingly apparent that sometimes preference is given to those who share a particular ideology or to some groupings which are alien to the Church and which have commissioned the appointment of a particular candidate. Furthermore it appears that sometimes consideration is given also to the favour of the mass media which usually makes a mockery of holy candidates painting a negative picture of them, whereas the candidates who in a lesser degree own the spirit of Christ are praised as open and modern. On the other side the candidates who excel in apostolic zeal, have courage in proclaiming the doctrine of Christ and show love for all that is holy and sacred, are deliberately eliminated.

 A Nuncio once told me: “It’s a pity that the Pope [John Paul II] does not participate personally in the appointment of the bishops. The Pope tried to change something in the Roman Curia, however he has not succeeded. He becomes older and things resume their usual former course”.

At the beginning of the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI, I wrote a letter to him in which I begged him to appoint holy bishops. I reported to him the story of a German layman who in the face of the degradation of the Church in his country after the Second Vatican Council, remained faithful to Christ and gathered young people for adoration and prayer. This man had been close to death and when he learned about the election of the new Pope he said: “When Pope Benedict will use his pontificate solely for the purpose to appoint worthy, good and faithful bishops, he will have fulfilled his task”.

Unfortunately, it is obvious that, Pope Benedict XVI has often not succeeded in this issue. It is difficult to believe that Pope Benedict XVI freely renounced his ministry as successor of Peter. Pope Benedict XVI was the head of the Church, his entourage however has barely translated his teachings into life, bypassed them often in silence or has rather obstructed his initiatives for an authentic reform of the Church, of the liturgy, of the manner to administer Holy Communion. In view of a great secrecy in the Vatican for many bishops it was realistically impossible to help the Pope in his duty as head and governor of the whole Church.

It will not be superfluous to remind my brothers in the episcopacy of an affirmation made by an Italian masonic lodge from the year 1820: “Our work is a work of a hundred years. Let us leave the elder people and let us go to the youth. The seminarians will become priests with our liberal ideas. We shall not flatter ourselves with false hopes. We will not make the Pope a Freemason. However liberal bishops, who will work in the entourage of the Pope, will propose to him in the task of governing the Church such thoughts and ideas which are advantageous for us and the Pope will implement them into life”. This intention of the Freemasons is being implemented more and more openly, not only thanks to the declared enemies of the Church but with the connivance of false witnesses who occupy some high hierarchical office in the Church. It is not without reason that Blessed Paul VI said: “The spirit of Satan penetrated through a crack inside the Church”. I think that this crack has become in our days quite wide and the devil uses all forces in order to subvert the Church of Christ. To avoid this, it is necessary to return to the precise and clear proclamation of the Gospel on all levels of ecclesiastical ministry, for the Church possesses all power and grace which Christ gave to her: “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go therefore, and teach all nations. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and I am with you always unto the end of the world” (Mt 28, 18-20), “the truth will set you free” (John 8, 32) and “let your word be Yes, yes; No, no: for whatsoever is more than these comes of evil” (Mt 5, 37). The Church cannot adapt herself to the spirit of this world, but must transform the world to the spirit of Christ.

It is obvious that in the Vatican there is a tendency to give in more and more to the noise of the mass media. It is not infrequent that in the name of an incomprehensible quiet and calm the best sons and servants are sacrificed in order to appease the mass media. The enemies of the Church however don’t hand over their faithful servants even when their actions are evidently bad. 

When we wish to remain faithful to Christ in word and deed, He Himself will find the means to transform the hearts and souls of men and the world as well will be changed at the appropriate time.

In times of the crisis of the Church God has often used for her true renewal the sacrifices, the tears and the prayers of those children and servants of the Church who in the eyes of the world and of the ecclesiastical bureaucracy were considered insignificant or were persecuted and marginalized because of their fidelity to Christ. I believe that in our difficult time this law of Christ is being realized and that the Church will renew herself thanks to the faithful inner renewal of each of us.

January 1st  2015, Solemnity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God 

+ Jan Pawel Lenga

Comment…

Are there likely to be many more bishops with backbone coming forward now, folks?  Tell us your thoughts.  

Comments (104)

  • dominiemary

    Was this before his heart attack? Or more recent?

    February 11, 2015 at 7:24 pm
    • editor

      DominieMary,

      Way before his heart attack. The talk of being prepared to go to prison over homosexual issue was before he was even Archbishop of Glasgow – when he was appointed Bishop of Paisley. We’ve reported it all and more in our newsletter over the years. Which is why it drives me crazy when, at the slightest sign of a bishop doing the right thing, everyone falls over themselves to say “faithful bishop, well done”. It’s like knowing that Dr Shipman murdered over 200 of his patients and then hearing from one (survivor!) that he once correctly diagnosed her headache. Who cares?

      Having said that, I do agree, credit where it’s due. He’s apparently said he will not thole the same shenanigans at next year’s Synod, and since he’s a known supporter of Cardinal Burke, and may take strength from his courageous example, I’m very pleased about his apparent decision not to remain silent if the Kasper Camp continue in the same vein and with the same support of the pontiff, as happened at the first part of the Synod. “Well done, faithful Archbishop T”, I will say! 😀

      February 11, 2015 at 8:26 pm
      • Petrus

        Editor,

        I couldn’t agree more. Well done to His Grace for hinting that he will take a stand.

        However, Archbishop Tartaglia must hold up his hands and recognise the part he has played over the years. He went along with the Modernist mission of modern churchmen (how’s that for alliteration?) for years without opening his mouth and that same silence is what has allowed the more rampant Modernists to run amok, most recently at the Synod.

        I really hope that this is Archbishop Tartaglia “waking up”, but we are a long way from counting him as one of the faithful bishops.

        February 11, 2015 at 9:29 pm
  • Spero

    I do not feel any encouragement from anything I hear relating to Bishop Robson, who was held in high regard by Cardinal O’Brien. I think he knew, or surmised the goings on that were going on, in a certain way( but maybe not the ‘gay” way,) but still he played the field. Maybe he has had a conversion and that is possible, but trust has been broken.
    Archbishop Cushley is a diplomat. He will smile and try to be all things to all men. I don’t think anyone will ever know which side he will land on until, if ever, decision time confronts him. I wouldn’t bet my shirt on him, that’s for sure.

    February 11, 2015 at 8:18 pm
  • Christina

    As I’m just a lowly Sassenach, I’m a bit bewildered about the lop-sided attention being paid to part of the lead article (together with a lengthy diversion about the rights and wrongs of priests spilling beans), while +Jan Pawel Lenga’s awesome open letter is receiving relatively little.

    I don’t know if bloggers have seen this yet https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2015/02/11/bishop-athanasius-schneider-we-must-create-groups-of-true-catholics/, but I think that things are very definitely looking up (pun unintended).

    February 11, 2015 at 10:02 pm
    • editor

      Christina,

      I’ve been hoping someone would single out sentences/key points from the Archbishop’s letter, but nobody has done so, which is very disappointing, so far.

      Which parts of it struck you as being of particular interest or importance?

      February 11, 2015 at 10:26 pm
    • Laura

      Christina,

      I’m not really sure that the archbishop’s letter is all that “awesome”. He does say some important things, but he also talks of the recent “holy popes” and he talks about the bishops’ conferences dealing with issues, instead of pointing out that these conferences have usurped the role of the individual bishop who is supposed to preach the doctrine and defend it in his own diocese.

      I did like these parts of his letter, where he says:

      “Unfortunately in our days it is increasingly evident that the Vatican through the Secretariat of State has taken the course of political correctness… ”

      Also:

      “The “spirit of the world” feeds the shepherds. The sinners give the Church the instructions for how she has to serve them. In their embarrassment the Pastors are silent on the current problems and abandon the sheep while they are feeding themselves.”

      That’s very good and needed to be said especially after the Synod, but do we know if this bishop goes along with the novus ordo etc? I’m not really convinced that he’s a traditional bishop just because of this letter.

      February 12, 2015 at 12:07 am
      • editor

        I think we can take it for granted that the Archbishop was saying the novus ordo and accepting what was going on in the name of Vatican II, but the key thing is that bishops like him are at last speaking out, albeit as a result of the Synod, not Vatican II. It will take them longer to see the connection between the two.

        It is, in fact, because he is “mainstream” that his letter will have an impact on those who would (and do) write off anything said by a bishop like the SSPX Superior General, because, well “he would say that, wouldn’t he” is their (unthinking) response.

        Archbishop Lenga is to be commended for speaking out and he deserves our support. I liked the quotes you highlighted, summarising the dilemma for the papolatrists today. That “the Pastors” – especially the Supreme Pastor – “are silent on the current problems” and, in fact, being led by the sinners, is a hugely important problem for a bishop to highlight.

        If we were into the “roses” and “raspberries” awards popular in certain other publications, he’d be receiving the CT roses award – definitely!

        February 12, 2015 at 12:47 pm
      • Jobstears

        Editor,

        I can’t get italics in wordpress! Looked it up, but it was no help. :'(

        I thought the Archbishop’s letter was beyond outstanding! This, for me described the Synod, “The “spirit of the world” feeds the shepherds. The sinners give the Church the instructions for how she has to serve them”. Succinct. Precise.

        The Archbishop’s observation that the Vatican “sacrifices the best sons and servants”, is very astute, except I would add that they are sacrificed to quiet, not just the media, but also,and perhaps more importantly, the modernists/ masons in the hierarchy. These faithful souls are the stumbling blocks. Look what they did to Archbishop Lefevbre!

        February 12, 2015 at 3:05 pm
  • Christina

    Editor, I didn’t mean to offend, although you’re right to reprimand me by implying that I should have commented on Abp. Jan Pawel Lenga’s letter myself instead of complaining that no-one else had! Mea culpa. To be honest, I didn’t see the thread until there were many posts about it, and I was riveted by the contents of the letter (i.e.gob-smacked and speechless) and, while still speechless, a bit curious as to why it had been largely overlooked.

    I’m not struck by the importance or interest of any ‘parts’ in particular, but rather by the entire thrust of the letter, aimed as it is at the Vatican Secretariat of State, and therefore at Abp. Pietro Parolin (Pope Francis’s ‘man’ – appointed immediately upon his election) together with the eight ‘papal advisors’.

    The analysis and description of the wholesale and worldwide corruption of the hierarchy from the top (i.e.the Secretariat of State) down, and the machinery and manipulation whereby this has been accomplished, are startling and frightening, especially when Abp Lenga recalls the Freemasonic affirmation of 1920 in connection with this:

    The seminarians will become priests with our liberal ideas. We shall not flatter ourselves with false hopes. We will not make the Pope a Freemason. However liberal bishops, who will work in the entourage of the Pope, will propose to him in the task of governing the Church such thoughts and ideas which are advantageous for us and the Pope will implement them into life.

    Traditional Catholics are all well aware that there is an unprecedented and dreadful crisis in the Church, but I have never seen the reasons for its rapid spread suggested and described so convincingly, and nor have I understood fully the part that earlier Freemasonry would play in the present-day ‘diabolical disorientation’ of the Church.

    (The papal nuncios) have acquired expertise in the principle “sub secreto Pontificio”, by which one manipulates and silences the mouths of the bishops. And that what the Nuncio tells them appears as it would be almost certainly the wish of the Pope. With such methods one separates the bishops from one another to the effect that the bishops of a country can no longer speak with one voice in the spirit of Christ and His Church in defending faith and morals..

    Abp. Lenga speaks with the same voice as Abp. Schneider, which is why I gave the link above. I think that there is real hope for us and for the whole Church here. .

    February 12, 2015 at 12:41 am
    • editor

      You didn’t offend, Christina, not at all.

      I was also struck by the Archbishop’s quote – with which we are all familiar – about the role of freemasonry in bringing about the current crisis, although disappointed that he didn’t include the quote about the Freemason’s hope for a pope who – while not a Freemason himself, they recognised the unlikelihood of that – would, nevertheless, march under their banner. I’d have liked him to include that quote – in fact, I haven’t got the Alta Vendita in front of me right now, but I wonder if what he quoted is, in fact, an adaption of that quote changed to “liberal bishops in the entourage of the Pope” instead of the quote directly referring to the pope. I could be mis-remembering this and don’t have time to double check right now, but, whatever, it was great to see him quoting that stated goal of Freemasonry.

      Thanks for the link to Bishop Schneider’s latest gem – I will read that more carefully later.

      February 12, 2015 at 12:52 pm
  • Christina

    Laura, you posted while I was composing (I’m very slow). With respect, and a willingness to be corrected, I think you have misunderstood what Abp. Lenga is saying about bishops’ conferences when you say … and he talks about the bishops’ conferences dealing with issues, instead of pointing out that these conferences have usurped the role of the individual bishop who is supposed to preach the doctrine and defend it in his own diocese.

    In fact he clearly demonstrates what has happened to bishops in their conferences when he says Instead of zealously spreading the faith, courageously preaching the doctrine of Christ, standing firm in the defense of truth and of morals, the meetings of the Bishops’ Conferences often deal with issues which are foreign to the nature of the duties of the successors of the apostles. Thus he is stating quite clearly what the bishops, in conference or not, should be doing, and he blames the papal nuncios, who have become ‘the propagators of liberalism and modernism’ for the fall of whole hierarchies. He also says of the bishops the Pastors are obliged to teach the whole truth about God and men “in season and out”, which, read in the context of the whole paragraph, reveals that Abp. Lenga considers the duty of the individual bishop is to his own flock and not to a bishops’ conference,

    As for ‘holy popes’, I took that as somewhat tongue-in-cheek in the context in which the goings on in those popes’ reigns are described!

    (This isn’t addressed to Laura) I won’t be thanked for saying it, but I think that some traditional Catholics, and especially some of those who, like myself, almost always attend SSPX chapels, are forever suspicious of any prelate in the ‘mainstream’ who speaks out in the way that Cardinal Burke, Abps Schneider and Lenga, and others have done and are doing. I think that such men deserve our prayers, encouragement and active help rather than criticism. Cardinal Burke’s case has shown us what putting ones head above the parapet means for a prelate, and the Church is crying out for others with his courage. I think that she just might be getting some at last.

    February 12, 2015 at 1:50 am
    • editor

      Christina,

      I’ll respond only to your final paragraph, not addressed to Laura but to the rest of us…

      I don’t think that it’s so much being “suspicious” of any “prelate in the mainstream who speaks out in the way that Cardinal Burke, Archpb Scheiner and Lenga” have done. I think it may be a feeling that they each have their own particular “problem” with what is going on in the Church and speak out about that, but refuse to acknowledge the elephant in the room – the Council and its aftermath per se, notably the Mass.

      So, Cardinal Burke, for example, allowed himself to be “persuaded” to withdraw from a Pro Ecclesia conference in London because they were regarded as critical of the bishops. Even though he knew they were in the right at the time, in their concerns about Catholic schools (not even the Mass was an issue – just Catholic schools) Yet now he is hitting the headlines with his protest about the Synod – and rightly so. It’s the fact that there is a certain inconsistency with hese “mainstream” bishops, that I think makes certain “traditional” Catholics say, well, that’s good in so far as it goes but I’m not going to celebrate just yet.”

      That’s my tuppence worth on that subject, but – be assured – I believe we should thank and encourage these “mainstream” bishops for speaking out. It will surely make the more intelligent among the pew Catholics think more critically about what is going on in their parishes and diocese. It might even make them realise that we are not the wacky ones after all 😀

      February 12, 2015 at 1:04 pm
  • Fr.DuffyFighting69th

    We desperately need an American Bishop or Archbishop to speak out against the rising tide of Apostasy. Are their any with the faith, courage and fortitude to do that? Or are they more concerned with their careers, comforts and titles?

    February 12, 2015 at 12:43 pm
    • Athanasius

      Fr.DuffyFighting69th,

      I think Cardinal Burke is up front on that score, and becoming more so as time goes on. He has great influence with the American bishops. I feel sure that Our Lord will inspire others.

      February 12, 2015 at 2:05 pm
    • editor

      Just looking at your username, I’m not sure if you are a priest (don’t tell us if you don’t want to do so) or a layman who is fighting on behalf of a persecuted priest. Or if you’d just had one too many glasses of the hard stuff when you signed up!

      Whatever, you at least have Cardinal Burke speaking out. Over here in not so sunny Scotland, we haven’t got a single priest or prelate publicly speaking about the crisis in the Church. We’re hoping that will change if Part Two of what one of our readers terms Sin Synod goes according to the Kasper Plan.

      February 12, 2015 at 3:06 pm
  • Jobstears

    Fr.DuffyFighting69th,

    I agree, we desperately need a bishop or archbishop with a backbone!

    I don’t see any action on the part of the laity either (and Michael Voris in my book, is part of the diabolical confusion in the Church). Very few know enough to be concerned- so long as we appear charitable and in union with our separated brethren, we are ‘living’ the gospel and walking with the Lord. Any problem with Communion in the hand? Nope. Communion Services? Certainly not, it’s a chance for the laity to be involved.

    How many bishops will stand with Cardinal Burke? I know a lot of priests who would, but their bishops? I don’t know. The folks at this site seem to be hopeful, we will see. http://www.newoxfordreview.org/note.jsp?did=0514-notes-tables

    On the brighter side, the parishes that offer the TLM see more parishioners attending that Mass than the NO.

    February 12, 2015 at 2:30 pm
  • Lockton Mawby

    Sorry I am a total noob at computers, yes this is Lockton Mawby, editor please use only my name as I am using a relatives email and computer, I scribed a long heartfelt reply to the kind comment, then it just disappeared?

    February 12, 2015 at 3:10 pm
    • Jobstears

      Lockton Mawby,

      My sympathies! That happens to me, too! If you write your comment (if it is a long one) in word and then copy it into your post, it would save you the trouble of rewriting.

      February 12, 2015 at 3:30 pm
    • editor

      What a pity – I will now change your other post to Lockton… and I would suggest (having suffered the same thing – a lengthy post disappearing, thanks to WordPress shenanigans) that you get into the habit of typing your comments in Word to save them and then posting on the blog. You can then delete the Word copy if you wish. It is infuriating to lose a post, as I know myself. So I urge you to type in Word first, save and then copy and paste on the blog.

      February 12, 2015 at 4:04 pm
  • John Kearney

    I rejoice that the Archbishop of Glasgow has spoke out on the Synod and supported Church teaching. I was beginning to believe that the changes we are seeing, the slow restoration of the Faith in England, would not happen in Scotland. One little cog can start turning a big wheel and if he receives support who knows it may encourage him to go further.

    February 18, 2015 at 12:36 pm
    • editor

      John

      He hasn’t spoken out. He made a remark to his priests.

      February 18, 2015 at 1:00 pm
  • gabriel syme

    “The idea that would consist in placing the Magisterium in a nice box by detaching it from pastoral practice — which could evolve according to the circumstances, fads, and passions — is a form of heresy, a dangerous schizophrenic pathology. I affirm solemnly that the Church of Africa will firmly oppose every rebellion against the teaching of Christ and the Magisterium.”

    – Cardinal Sarah

    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/02/important-cardinal-sarah-detachment-of.html

    February 21, 2015 at 4:35 pm

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