Since we’ve not yet discussed the promised papal encyclical on the environment, I thought this might be an interesting introductory discussion – this is the first time I’ve re-blogged a post. Looks interesting. Share your thoughts…
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Comments (41)
I realise that the photo on the blog article is of Pope John Paul II, not Pope Francis, and I left a comment to alert Steve to that, presumably, mistake. I am unable to replace the photo, so can’t be helped.
The blog article has this near the end:
“Earth is the mother of us all, (I don’t know how sister got in there), and the mother of us all never forgives and will destroy us if we are not good stewards. How do we understand this as Catholics? As sentimental environmentalists, it all sounds “nice” and fits with the pantheist beliefs of many environmentalists, but does not make coherent sense to Catholics. The Blessed Mother is our Mother. Has that changed?”
It looks like it has changed, if the pope is saying the earth is our mother and will destroy us. How can we make sense of any of this environment stuff as Catholics? Are we not supposed to trust God to take care of the creation?
The Church has constantly taught we are stewards of creation and we should care for it. However, we are destroying it and endangering ourselves, and future generations. The Pope is making this same important point.
It’s New Age stuff to talk about Mother Earth. I don’t think the pope should speak like that.
CS,
Can you make sense of the Mother Earth, Sister Earth baloney the popes has come away with? Do you believe the earth is “our mother/sister”?
I think whether we say Mother or Sister earth is irrelevant. The earth has no gender, and if it did both Mother and Sister are feminine and so the same point is made.
What matters more is God is Our Father, and we are members of Mother Church.
Petrus
Having replied already I then decided to look what the first St Francis said:
“Be praised, my Lord, through our sister Mother Earth,
who feeds us and rules us,
and produces various fruits with colored flowers and herbs”
There it is our Sister Mother earth. Pope Francis is in good company. Or is St Francis not a true Saint who offers and exemplary life, and teachings, for us to follow.
Common Sense,
Please provide examples of constant Church teaching about us being stewards of Creation. I know Magisterial teaching pretty well, but I’ve never heard that one before. You really need to start backing up these wild statements with facts, otherwise you’ll be written off as a nut.
Josephine,
I wouldn’t even try to make sense of this nonsense. It IS nonsense.
“The earth which is the mother for all, demands our respect and non-violence or worse the arrogance the masters”, I could not make sense of this.
Maybe it’s time the Pope looked for a new ghostwriter!
To be honest, I don’t think it is worth trying to understand it. It’s good to discuss it, because it is so off the wall it is untrue, but it’s so far removed from what the Pope should be discussing and so far removed from anything that remotely resembles Catholic teaching. He’s truly lost the place and is becoming a liability.
I see that the photo of Pope JP II has been replaced by another picture, but hasn’t appeared here. My first attempt at re-blogging has put me off completely!
I think the Pope should be more concerned about the destruction of souls.
Britain and America have been making a tidy enough job of destroying the earth, especially in the Middle East, over the past few years so maybe he should comment on that.
I think Jesus showed he had, and we should have, care for body and soul.
Further to preach about God to exploited people, in exploited lands, and not seek to help them or to end the abuse of the earth is hardly a way of witnessing to The Gospel, is it?
Frankier,
It would certainly be very helpful if the Pope even uttered the word Middle-East! He won’t acknowledge the Christian martyrs, do you think he will mention uranium tipped bombs that have poisoned Mother Earth/Gaia/ Sister, in that region? Will he address the issue of the hideous birth defects that have resulted from it?
…..’Will there be enough food to eat?….Will there be enough water to drink?….Will there be enough air to breathe?’…..These are the things that pagans worry about, as Holy Scriptures tell us.
However, when I uttered this in the workplace it was almost another boxing gloves occasion. Thank God I’m retired, I no longer have to rub shoulders with ‘wise-ass’ numbskulls, who believe everything the mainstream media pumps at them.
I think poor Catholics both at home, and abroad, especially in the developing world, and in regions scarred by conflict pose the same questions. They can be seen as not words of despair, or of lack of faith in God, but a cry from the heart based on real human fear and difficulties.
[nasty ageist comment removed]
It is not unreasonable to contrast what you have written with the words of Pope St John Paul:
“13. It cannot be said that these various religious, human, economic and technical initiatives have been in vain, for they have succeeded in achieving certain results. But in general, taking into account the various factors, one cannot deny that the present situation of the world, from the point of view of development, offers a rather negative impression.
For this reason, I wish to call attention to a number of general indicators, without excluding other specific ones. Without going into an analysis of figures and statistics, it is sufficient to face squarely the reality of an innumerable multitude of people – children, adults and the elderly – in other words, real and unique human persons, who are suffering under the intolerable burden of poverty. There are many millions who are deprived of hope due to the fact that, in many parts of the world, their situation has noticeably worsened. Before these tragedies of total indigence and need, in which so many of our brothers and sisters are living, it is the Lord Jesus himself who comes to question us (cf. Mt 25:31-46).”
CS,
You disagree with everyone else on this blog… What is it you’re trying to prove?
I am usually very pro-life, but would be happy to make an exception in your case. So, when are you having yourself put down?
Other bloggers in favour, say a resounding AYE.
Ed: I’ll take the final three sentences as a bit of fun, but on the edge, Patrick! No personal remarks UNLESS meant jocularly and these are on the edge, so take care. I can’t delete personal remarks from those who appear to be trolls and then permit them in the posts of regular bloggers. That wouldn’t be fair and, if you could see my hair these days, you’d know that I’m getting “fairer” by the nano-second 😀
CS,
How do you define poverty? Mother Teresa said the poor in the West were more to pitied than the poor she tended in the developing countries because her poor had hope – you see, they were only materially impoverished; in the West, Mother Teresa saw a spiritual poverty which was worse. There have always been poor people and there always will be, but the despair you speak of, is the hallmark of spiritual poverty.
So, how is the Pope trying to meet this need?
You talk of the poor in regions scarred by conflict- let’s see what the Pope has done for them: has he said one word about the Nigerian school children abducted by Boko Haram? Is he doing anything about the Catholic mother languishing in a Pakistani jail, the mother who wrote to him begging for help? Is he strengthening the Christians who are suffering for the Faith and being exterminated for it in the Middle East?
Has he offered one word of sympathy to them? I am thoroughly ashamed of his cowardice.
Good Lord, this “Mother Earth” stuff from “Moon Brother Francis” is embarrassing. Its like the kind of post-Christian gaia / zen trash which comes out of the LCWR in the USA.
All bloggers,
This is a must read!
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/02/rorate-exclusive-open-letter-by.html#more
Athanasius,
That is an outstanding letter! Thank you for the link.
Much needed after reading the latest nonsense with which the pope is embarrassing Catholics- thinking ones, that is.
I’m interested in the part where the Archbishop says that Pope Benedict didn’t abdicate of his own volition. Surely that has enormous repercussions?
Thanks for that alert, Athanasius. I also had an alert via email but not had a chance to read it yet. I get the feeling, though that this deserves a thread of its own, so perhaps hold fire, folks, until I can organise that – a little later tonight. I have a feeling we can connect it to our very own Archbishop of Glasgow, according to some of his clergy, so, hang fire!
Thanks.
Editor,
Will do.
Thanks. I’ve just posted the new thread.
How soon before we revert to the worship of Gaia? Since Mother Earth is so unforgiving, are we going to abandon the Mass to offer libations to satisfy the powers of the Earth?
This encyclical, I’m sure, will do untold damage. A good friend of mine is a Catholic who is woefully ignorant on fundamental matters regarding her Faith, but sends copious amounts of emails to me and other people about ‘green’ issues / ‘climate change’ etc. She supports Greenpeace in spite of their alarming track record (incidentally, a Greenpeace activist stated that climate change deniers should be beheaded – see story here:- http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/01/25/greenpeace-activist-calls-for-climate-change-deniers-to-be-beheaded – no point in me going for a haircut in the near future then!). Sadly, my friend has seized on this forthcoming Papal encyclical to show me the ‘error of my ways’ and that the Church is going to support all these theories. In spite of recent headlines like this:- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6679082/Climate-change-this-is-the-worst-scientific-scandal-of-our-generation.html The Pope should NOT be supporting dubious science. It will only bring the Church into disrepute. I recommend this article:- http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/b6314a5ab62c7e7133a7701ce04f5e29-328.html
Far be it for me to defend pope Francis, but for once I do think he makes some very valid points. Creation was given to humanity for our benefit, and if we are good custodians of nature, it will provide for all of our material needs. Nature is how God created it, and going against that will only lead to our own ruin. Many aspects of they way we live today are completely unnatural and are killing us, poisoning the Earth for future generations. That can’t be God’s plan for how we use the gifts he has given us.
I don’t tend to read to much into the “Mother Earth” stuff. The word “mother” can be applied to many different things in different contexts. I don’t think Francis intended it as a slight to Our Lady.
Alex F,
As Westminster Fly has made the point so well in the post above yours, I won’t belabour the point but Pope Francis has no right whatsoever to lend his support to the “green movement”. He’s not just saying we should all be good girls and boys and take care not to drop litter (big deal) he’s lending his support to what WF correctly describes as “dubious science” I would add “dubious to say the least”. The whole thing is a hoax, a lie, and a lie driven by the population control movement.
Past pontiffs with higher intellects and a tad more savvy (to put it mildly) than Pope Francis would have seen through it a mile away and kept their mouths shut. Keeping his mouth shut seems to be this Pope’s major personal challenge.
I read something somewhere recently that seemed to cover all this worrying about earthy provisions, what was it again… Oh yes…. to paraphrase, “Do not worry about what you are to wear, or what you are to eat…The pagans worry about these things…Look at the lilies of the field… the sparrows… your heavenly Father takes care of them… how much more, then will He take care of you. Your Father in Heaven knows that you need all of these things. Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven and all these other things will be given to you…”
Divine Providence – will that get a mention in the papal encyclical on picking up the litter and recycling the rubbish?
This report was on Fox News both Pope Saint John Paul, and Benedict are renowned as holy men, and intellectual giants. Francis is following their lead:
“APAL PRECEDENT
Francis is extending the work of his predecessors. Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI both spoke of environmental protection as an urgent moral concern and placed the issue the context of church social teaching on helping the poor and promoting the common good.
In 1990, John Paul II said Catholics had a special religious obligation to protect God’s creation from damage caused by “industrial waste, the burning of fossil fuels, unrestricted deforestation” and other practices. Benedict was dubbed “the Green Pope,” for his frequent calls to stop ecological devastation and his efforts to bring solar power to the Vatican city-state. “Can we remain indifferent before the problems associated with such realities as climate change?” Benedict said in 2010.
Both pontiffs advocated for conservation as part of a “culture of life” that includes ending abortion. Francis has done the same in his remarks, decrying a “culture of waste” that devalues human life”
Yes. If a pope can’t speak on environmental issues I don’t know who can. Environmental mismanagement affects firstly and hardest the poorest in society, making it very much a social issue, and popes have always spoken on social issues. Leo XII wrote Rerum Novarum on the terrible conditions the working classes were living in at the time, and still do in many countries.
Exactly, Editor, exactly. Responsible stewardship of creation is one thing, the ‘green’ movement is quite another, as you say, based on population control (and stealth taxes). People need to read Matthew 6:25 and meditate upon it. The earth is, and always will be, finite. We cannot prolong it a moment longer than God wills. Souls are more important than soil.
See what Fr Gruner has to say about ecological thrust for population control and the infamous ‘Georgia Guidestones’:-
http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr107/cr107.pdf
“This is part of the Message of Fatima – we are targeted for destruction, and only Our Lady can save us. We’re going to be killed if Her requests are not heeded in time. I’m talking about both Catholics and Protestants, because the enemies of God want to destroy every remembrance of the Name of Jesus Christ on this earth.
To do this, they plan to kill us, obviously. These plans are published for anyone to see. I’m not trying to be dramatic or sensational, or to scare people needlessly. Maybe some people are unnerved by this part of the Message, and simply find it too horrible to think about. But the fact is that there is an enormous granite monument (more than six meters, almost 20 feet, high) on Highway 77, about seven miles outside of Elberton, Georgia, called the Georgia Guidestones, announcing this. That monument very publicly calls for the reduction of the world’s population to less than one-half of a billion people. In other words, more than 6.5 BILLION people will have to be done away with (according to these diabolical authors of the Georgia Guidestones) in order to make “room for nature” in the coming “Age of Reason,” in which humanity will exist within a balanced ecology. This is the
plan of too many of our world leaders – even those who don’t speak about it so openly. It’s hard to conceive of this sort of monstrous thinking, which tries to justify genocidal murder on the basis of the well-being of the environment. It is also very stupid thinking, but it is certainly true that followers of satan do think that way because, as we know from Sacred Scripture,“Iniquity has lied to itself.”
Matthew 6:25 is Jesus telling us not to worry unduly about our material needs, not that we don’t have to work for a living, and it’s not an invitation to be careless with the gifts God has given us.
I didn’t actually write anything about anthropogenic global warming in my post. Whether or not you believe the arguments of its proponents, there is more to caring for the environment than just that one issue, and there are more important issues than picking up dog litter. It won’t seem so trivial to the generation coming after us if they can’t drink tap water because in our greed, we have polluted it. Neither will it seem so trivial when our generation is a bit older and we go blind and have our legs chopped off because of type II diabetes caused by a sedate lifestyle and an insanely unhealthy diet. Yes, God will help us, but we also have to play our part.
I agree with what some people have said about pantheism and the so-called green movement, but that is not to say that they don’t have a point on anything, and many of them have done a lot of research on environmental issues. On the question of supposed over-population, the matter has been discussed at length on a different thread on this blog. However, it could be argued that God has created a world where there is more than enough to go around, but we have to look at our lifestyle.
Alex F,
It is the teaching of the Church that one soul in a state of grace is more precious in the sight of God than the entire created universe.
This being so, it is surely incumbent upon Pope Francis to speak out more vigorously against sin and religious error, particularly in our time, than to fixate on all these worldly matters that consume his mind and fill his locutions, including environmentalism.
It appears tragically that we have a Pope in Francis who is far more occupied with natural than supernatural issues. That may be good news for “mother earth”, but it spells disaster for Mother Church and her children!
Alex F – many people do lead very unhealthy lifestyles which lead to type II diabetes and other diseases, but it is NOT the role of the Supreme Pontiff to make declarations about this, any more than it is the role of nutritionists or health experts to counsel us about spiritual matters pertaining to our eternal salvation. What next? The Pope donning lycra and jogging around St Peter’s Square while extolling the virtues of 5 fruit and veg a day? The General Medical Council issuing encyclicals about the rosary? This is part of a wider problem that has become prevalent in the Church at all levels – the clergy taking on roles which are proper to the laity, and vice versa.
WF,
Well said and spot on. The fact that lay people see absolutely nothing wrong with a Pope spouting the party line on “green issues” while the Church is falling apart around him, and Christians are being massacred in the Middle East (about which Papa Francis has maintained a shameful silence) really does tell us all we need to know about the state of the Church and the laity at the present time. At the Second Vatican Council, one cardinal was able to say in the (very brief) discussion about Catholic education that never have we had such an educated laity. No more. Vatican III will have to spend a heck of a lot of time on how to re-educate the faithful beginning with the very basics – the nature of both the Church and the papacy …
I agree that it is disgraceful that Francis has said next to nothing on the awful things that are happening in the Middle East.
The General Medical Council might do a better job writing encyclicals on the rosary than the current crop of churchmen we’re blessed with!
Seriously, though, I can see what people are saying when about popes speaking about “safe” matters that have the respectability of the world, while ignoring supposedly more important issues in terms of religion. I do agree that Francis is careful not to say anything that will upset the modern world too much, and as Catholics, we could do with firmer guidance on spiritual matters. From that perspective, ecology is a “safe” subject.
The point I am making is that it is the pope’s place to speak about social matters, and the misuse of the environment generally comes about through greed, which is a sin, and hits the poorest and most marginalised in our society the hardest. I say that as someone who is no fan of Francis, but credit where it’s due.
Yes Athanasius. I suspect such people are fixated on the things of earth because they don’t really believe in eternal life (or eternal death). And I’ve noticed their ‘green’ credentials usually only go so far. Certainly with the ones I know, when the creed of the green movement impinges a little ,too close for comfort on their materialistic lifestyles (e.g. having ‘high carbon footprints’ from a couple of holidays jetting abroad each year) they conveniently forget it.
I keep telling them that if Russia isn’t consecrated, then there may not be a whole lot of environment left to worry about: ‘whole nations will be annihilated’, but while they wholeheartedly believe green propaganda, they treat the Fatima message with grave suspicion. Anyway, I stand by what I said. It is not the duty or the role of the Pope to take sides, or make pronouncements, on scientific issues which are far from proven and open to revision at any time.
WF,
Your comment about the way the people will believe anything alleged by the green movement (proving that they really ARE green) yet be sceptical about Fatima, reminded me of this comment from G.K. Chesterton:
“The modern mind will accept nothing on authority, but will accept anything on no authority. Say that the Bible or the Pope says so and it will be dismissed without further examination. But preface your remark with “I think I heard somewhere,” or, try but fail to remember the name of some professor who might have said “such-and-such,” and it will be immediately accepted as an unshakable fact.”
So true – why are people so … oops, that would be a comment for the “Is the UK Population Thick” thread, so won’t use the word here!
Which reminds me… I’ll be closing down the January threads later today so anyone who wishes to catch up, make a final comment on any of those, be warned.
This just came in from Holy Family Apostolate and is relevant:-
“I’ve Starved Species Greater Than You”; CNN Airs Creepy Anti-Human PSA
CNN is airing a creepy anti-human PSA which features Julia Roberts as the voice of “Mother Nature” bragging about how she has “starved species greater than you.”
The commercial is the work of Conservation International, an environmental organization that has received criticism for its links with corporations such as BP, Cargill, Chevron, Monsanto and Shell. The company was also embarrassed when it fell for a prank in which reporters posed as representatives of an international arms dealer looking to improve their “green” profile.
The PSA is part of the group’s ‘Nature is Speaking’ series, which also features the likes of Kevin Spacey, Robert Redford and Harrison Ford.
In the ad, the voice of “Mother Nature” sets itself up as adversarial to humans, noting, “I’ve been here for over four and a half billion years, 22,500 times longer than you, I don’t really need people.”
“I have fed species greater than you and I have starved species greater than you,” states Roberts as her tone becomes more aggressive. “My oceans, my soil, my flowing streams, my forests, they all can take you or leave you.”
The PSA ends with the text “nature doesn’t need people” to the backdrop of the earth in space. The ad aired yesterday on CNN at the end of the network’s flagship Amanpour global affairs program.
One wonders just exactly what the organization considers to be a “greater” species than human beings. Last time I checked, dinosaurs didn’t paint the Sistine Chapel, travel to the moon, invent the internal combustion engine or create the Internet.
http://www.infowars.com/ive-starved-species-greater-than-you-cnn-airs-creepy-anti-human-psa/print
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