Same-Sex Vote: Priests For YES – Resign!
Fr Adrian Egan (above) published a letter in the Irish Times, 30 April, in which he asserted his intention to vote YES in the same-sex marriage referendum to take place in Ireland on 22nd May. Click on the photo to read his letter, published on a new website called Priests For Yes – I mean, can it get any worse? Brazen priests boasting about their support for unnatural and immoral sexual behaviour, basing their opinions on a childish understanding of “love” and “equality”.
Then another priest, Fr Brian O’Fearraigh, announced (to his congregation at Mass) that he, too, would be voting YES. It’s not a Church matter, it’s a state matter was his crackpot defence. What was that about “diabolical disorientation”? You bet… For if the Devil isn’t working in these priests, I can’t think what’s driving them – definitely not logic, theology, scripture or even elementary knowledge of the natural moral law. Here’s the report from the Irish Examiner – brace yourself…
“In voting Yes we are saying that the state will be recognising and cherishing all of it’s citizens regardless of their sexual orientation or who they are,” said Fr O’Fearraigh. 
Fr O’Fearraigh said that his conscience is clear with regard his decision, regardless of the fact that his bishop, Bishop of Raphoe Philip Boyce, had publically declared he would be voting No.
“The reality of same-sex marriage is a reality that in no way threatens me or in no way offends me as an individual, as a priest and ultimately as a citizen of this state.”
Barry Jones, a spokesperson for StandUp4Marriage, a group advocating a No vote was speaking on the same station to Greg Hughes and said that the referendum was “a matter for every individual, it’s as simple as that, and that is a matter for him whatever way he wants to vote. It certainly sounds to me that he [Fr O Fearraigh] is misguided”.
The referendum takes place on May 22. Source – note, includes short audio clip of Fr O’Fearraigh defending his indefensible position.
Comment
We’ve had a number of threads to discuss the forthcoming referendum in Ireland. This thread is not about that. It’s about the following:
1) how come these priests have no awareness of the nature and purpose of conscience?
2) why is their Superior/Bishop not insisting that they resign from active priestly ministry? Do you think they should resign?
3) What should Catholics do if their priest publicly announces his intention to vote for same-sex marriage or otherwise publicly attacks dogma or morals? I once told a priest after Mass that if he did that again, I would publicly correct him. Should we do that, even though, I’m told, technically it’s against the law of the land. Does anyone care?
Finally….
The key question MUST be asked and answered: is it possible for a Catholic priest to “disagree” with God’s natural moral order and undermine the Church by handing over guardianship of God’s objective moral law to the State? Is that possible? And still remain in a position of influence over the Catholic people, to feed them stones instead of bread? What does Canon Law have to say on the matter?
Comments (236)
Sick
Sent from my iPad
I totally agree – it is completely sick. These priests are heading for Hell and taking others with them, people who think no priest would do that. The one who has told his people that it’s the state’s business not the Church’s should be dismissed from office immediately. He’s either ignorant or lying and either way he is no fit person to be in the priesthood.
I suppose if they are that way inclined themselves they will see nothing wrong with sodomy.
The Donegal priest reckons he isn’t threatened in any way by same sex “marriage”.
I don’t suppose he was threatened either with the murder of his own young fellow countrywoman in Glasgow recently but that hardly makes it acceptable.
As the song says, it’s a most distressful country.
I’m ashamed to be “off the Irish”.
Frankier,
I don’t feel ashamed to be of Irish stock but I do feel disappointed that there are so few speaking out about this. The Irish gave the world missionaries in the past but now is in need for being catechized themselves. It’s so sad.
I don’t know what Canon Law says about this but I can’t see how anyone who votes for sodomy can continue as a priest. I can’t even understand why they would want to.
The trouble with Canon Law is that it is vague in terms of speaking of serious or gave offences etc and doesn’t spell out particular offences in this context.
It seems to me that if a priest publicly contradicts God’s moral law and announce to the world that he is voting for evil, then he is ipso facto excommunicated. It’s proving very difficult, though, to get a canon lawyer to confirm that.
Here’s an interesting snippet from a Catholic News Agency report quoting Cardinal Pell on the forthcoming Synod, Part II, in which he insists that Catholic teaching on marriage/adultery etc will be re-stated… what he says applies to these priests, as well:
“If there are no consequences for doing something wrong, then “we send the wrong message, and that’s not merciful in the long run.”
Using the example of a ship stranded at sea, the cardinal noted how “some people have been saying the role of the Church is to help those people who are in the life boats.”
Although reaching them is important, a bigger concern for the Church now “is to guide the big ships, the liners, so that they’re not shipwrecked, so that they don’t need to get into the lifeboats.”
“We defend through the law that which we value; and to deny that will increase the decline and the slide in the wrong direction.” Source
Canon law shouldn’t enter into it when God’s law is being broken.
This is a problem that can be sorted out relatively easily. All that is required is to fill in a couple of forms, with P45 stamped at the top of the pages, with the particulars of these two individuals and send them on to the required addresses.
Any replies from them can be treated like junk mail. Sent unread to the
blue bin.
They should be able to get other jobs from some of their many new found friends who have managed to get to the top of the tree in almost every type of industry known to man.
Comment deleted.
Your nasty, ignorant post is now binned. Do not submit comments here again – they are already marked for immediate deletion. Occasionally, I allow idiotic posts through in order to correct some major error – as with the daft woman who misquoted Leviticus. But there is just nothing in your post to correct – it’s all off the wall baloney. Enjoy your blogging career – somewhere else. You are not going to be published here. End of.
Frankier,
It’s these dissenters/apostates who should be ashamed of letting down their once-great Catholic nation. What a judgment awaits them.
It is incredible!
Never thought I would say thank God for the D U P. whatever else we may think of them at least they are not for having Sodomites run their part of Ireland. I personally have only been over to Ireland once for 4 days it was 4 days to long.
Yes, it is definitely all part of the ‘diabolical disorientation’ which Sister Lucia of Fatima warned about. Here in Westminster the Cardinal publicly celebrated Mass yesterday for a notorious dissenting ‘LGBT’ group https://www.facebook.com/pages/LGBT-Catholics-Westminster/149420788463271?sk=timeline&ref=page_internal
Fr. Joaquin Alonso RIP (official archivist of Fatima, 1965—1981) once said:- In the period preceding the great triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, terrible things are to happen. These form the content of the third part of the Secret. What are they? If “in Portugal the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved,”…it can be clearly deduced from this that in other parts of the Church these dogmas are going to become obscure or even lost altogether…. well, the Faith is definitely obscured in Westminster, no doubt about it.
WF,
That’s utterly shameful of Cardinal Nichols – as you explained clearly on another thread, this demonstrates his human respect, more anxious to be in the fashion of supporting “gay rights” than preaching the truth. What a terrible judgments awaits him and others like him.
Whom the Gods wish to destroy they first make mad.
With bells on! Truly mad!
“Whom the Gods wish to destroy they first make mad”. Does this mean Scotland is the maddest country? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11596667/Scotland-tops-gay-rights-league-for-Europe.html
WF,
Without the proverbial doubt – Scotland is EASILY the maddest country. By far. Sadly.
Madame Editor,
You have not excepted yourself for some reason. It must be due to your modesty.
We know that you hold a Certificate of Sanity issued to you by your General Practitioner.
Not from my GP but you’re right – I’m one of the few people, and probably the only one on this blog, who has a certificate to say that I’m of sane mind!
Long story, folks, don’t ask.
As G.K. Chesterton once said:
From the great Gales of Ireland Are the men that God made mad, for all their wars are merry And all their songs are sad.
I remember a program on TV where an MP was asked why he was against same-sex marriage. His answer was short. “I am a Roman Catholic” This answer was all that was needed. He does not have to know the whys or wherefores, he is not guided by his own feelings, he is a follower of Jesus Christ who has more knowledge in the subject than he has and teaches through his Church. What these priests are doing is taking on scripture and the words of Jesus Himself. They play to the gallery of popularity rather than embracing the humility of Christ. The world of the homosexual is not an easy one and we know that lasting partnerships are rare and what they are doing is encouraging homosexuality and the misery that that life leads to. They are ver ignorant of the Gospel and their own vocation.
I should have added that the best way to deal with a priest is not to challenge him but to just stand up for a few seconds then walk out. He cannot come back at you and you will have made your point. I have done this about three times in my parish once the modernists wanted me banned but what I achieved was interest and other Catholics explained why they should have followed me. The standard answer is that your are uncharitable. You can speak the truth but only in a charitable way. But Truth is truth and the pretence that we are only awaiting the time when a charitable catholic announces it is gobble gook.
That is so admirable, John Kearney. I get so emotional when I hear appalling things like this this from a priest that I don’t think I’d make it to the door steadily enough if I tried to walk out with the necessary dignity.
John Kearney
allow me to echo Christina’s reply to your recent posts. As you say Truth is truth. The church teaches that homosexual ACTS are wrong (many men may have inclinations that they will not act upon; we cannot judge what is in the soul alone) because such acts violate even the natural law. The Redemptorists, to which congregation Fr. Egan has belonged for the past 40 years or so, have entirely lost their way morally and theologically, in ireland at least,if not worldwide. And to think that they were once known as the “fire and brimstone brigade”. Fr. Egan received his formation at a time in the late 70s or early 80s when a new type of Redemptorist was coming from the seminary; a type that was content to blend into to contemporary culture and were obviously trained to preach about the great mercy of God at the expense of and isolated from His justice. Fr. Tony Flannery is also from this era.
1) how come these priests have no awareness of the nature and purpose of conscience?
Most probably sinfully poor formation in the wake of the “new springtime” of V2 and its questionable theology.
2) why is their Superior/Bishop not insisting that they resign from active priestly ministry? Do you think they should resign?
Their Superior/Bishop is either in agreement with them/ doesn’t really care for the welfare of his flock or is pandering to the “spirit of the world”. He is probably more afraid of the temporal consequences of speaking out than the eternal ones of keeping silence. Too much human respect.
3) What should Catholics do if their priest publicly announces his intention to vote for same-sex marriage or otherwise publicly attacks dogma or morals? I once told a priest after Mass that if he did that again, I would publicly correct him. Should we do that, even though, I’m told, technically it’s against the law of the land. Does anyone care?
If the priest cannot be corrected publically, he could be written to and told of his errors. I would also be highlighting his errors among my friends and aquaintances. I am afraid that writing to the bishop would fall on deaf ears; nevertheless it could be done as we have a duty to correct error. Personally I do not attend missions run by the Redemptorists any more (I no longer attend the NOM, anyway). I have had enough listening to their errors. Invincible ignorance is no defence in the case of a priest, bishop, cardinal, pope or layman who persists in spreading error. Such clergy should be avoided to maintain the health of the soul, just as we would avoid a person who was physically contagious.
Finally….
The key question MUST be asked and answered: is it possible for a Catholic priest to “disagree” with God’s natural moral order and undermine the Church by handing over guardianship of God’s objective moral law to the State? Is that possible? And still remain in a position of influence over the Catholic people, to feed them stones instead of bread? What does Canon Law have to say on the matter?
I have sent the link to this thread to the Donegal diocesan office, to be passed to the Bishop and the priest, Fr Brian O’Fearraigh. I’ve not had time to email it to the smiler posted on the new website, Fr Egan, but will do although he doesn’t want his email address given out, so I’ll just send it to the nameless person who answered my initial enquiry (asking for Fr Egan’s email address!) Doesn’t make for easy dialogue, when the promoters of “dialogue” and “tolerance” don’t want to be contactable!
Editor
You should try delivering it c/o his local Sodomites headquarters.
John Kearney,
Is the politician of whom you are thinking Jacob Rees-Mogg? He was on ‘Have I got News For You’ and he said at the time that ‘I take my whip from the Roman [sic] Catholic Church’. As JK said, that’s all is needed. I am a Catholic, I believe EVERYTHING the Mother Church teaches, end of. No further discussion needed. I am not my own man. I acknowledge the Church to be founded by Christ Jesus, and His Church on Earth is my conscience.
All,
Anyway, you do not need a degree in moral theology to know that marriage is a indissoluble sacrament instituted by Christ. The Sacrament of Matrimony unites a Christian man and his wife in lawful marriage, and according to the Baltimore Catechism, the chief ends of the sacrament are:
Q. 1010. What are the chief ends of the Sacrament of Matrimony?
A. The chief ends of the Sacrament of matrimony are:
1. To enable the husband and wife to aid each other in securing the salvation of their souls;
2. To propagate or keep up the existence of the human race by bringing children into the world to serve God;
3. To prevent sins against the holy virtue of purity by faithfully obeying the laws of the marriage state.
No mention of same sex marriage there, eh? Likewise, Genesis 2:24 says, ‘Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh’. Also, Our Lord said in Matthew 19:4-7, ‘Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, Made them male and female? And he said: For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder’.
I hope scientists invent time machines, because I want to go back to 1750, and ask an illiterate Irish peasant his views on the sacraments, because I’ll get a better answer than what those barmy priests can offer.
I want editor to write an open letter to their bishops. If she does I’ll add my John Hancock!
A new website for Priests for Yes? And these priests are brazenly publishing their dissent in the name of charity and equality, tolerance and mercy. It is Evil. The insane ones at least have no control over their reason, these priests don’t have that excuse. Poor formation? Undoubtedly, but they also have the means to correct their culpable stupidity.
I do believe these priests should resign and if they don’t do so voluntarily, they ought to be forced out by their bishops, most of whom should be resigning themselves but we don’t have a pope who will see to that because he is busy peddling mercy which without justice is simply license to do whatever makes you happy/fulfilled/whole.
I do think some form of protest is necessary when the priest publicly attacks morals and dogma and in this case- telling the congregation how he will vote in defiance of church teaching. I like John Kearney’s response- to stand up for a few seconds and then walk out. A few years ago, when the pedophilia scandal erupted in the US, during the sermon, an elderly gentleman did something similar, he stood up and said something and walked out. We couldn’t hear what he said from our pew, but we got his point- he disagreed with the priest.
I agree, The key question MUST be asked and answered: is it possible for a Catholic priest to “disagree” with God’s natural moral order and undermine the Church by handing over guardianship of God’s objective moral law to the State? Is that possible? And still remain in a position of influence over the Catholic people, to feed them stones instead of bread? Who will answer that? It requires applying Catholic principles/Church teaching to judge behavior . Is it really charity to allow souls to be damned for eternity because we want them to feel ‘loved’ and ‘accepted’ in the here and now?
It`s like giving an alcoholic a drink to make him feel better at that particular time.
Frankier,
Exactly!
Jobstears,
” Is it really charity to allow souls to be damned for eternity because we want them to feel ‘loved’ and ‘accepted’ in the here and now?”
You got it in a nutshell. Answer: nope!
Jobstears,
IMHO the best protest that priest’s parishioners could make is to never return to that parish again and tell him why.
This is horrifying. I am certain that these priests must be automatically excommunicated.
If Archbishop Lefebvre could be excommunicated for consecrating four bishops at a time of crisis, then surely priests to publicly say they will vote to change God’s law on marriage, are automatically excommunicated. I thought St Thomas Aquinas said that to deny a single teaching means we excommunicate ourselves.
Is there any way to find out if these priests are automatically excommunicated, even if there is no announcement about it?
Fidelis,
Father Michael Rodriguez argues that such priests automatically excommunicate themselves – click here
I removed the original link following an email from a reader who pointed out that that website had links to Church Militant TV and the very nasty Fr Paul Nicholson. The above link leads to the same report on Fr Rodriguez anyway, so nothing lost, peace of mind gained! Don’t want to be advertising Voris & Co.
I remember the great sermon this heroic priest made about same-sex practices and the sacrament of marriage and how he was then sent off to a far off parish by his bishop.
It is the feast of St. Rita of Cascia on the 22nd May – the patroness of hopeless cases.
Ireland needs some help with this vote on SSM so I would like to suggest that we to start a novena on the 13th May for the voters to come out and vote against this
potential iniquitous law. I will try to find the novena to St. Rita.
Clotilde,
Well spotted that there is time to do a novena beginning on 13th May and ending on 22nd. Yes, that would be great if you could find us the novena to St Rita of Cascia and post it here. Some devils are only cast out by fasting and prayer and this, sad to say, seems to be one of them.
I’ve just seen your suggestion and because there’s only a couple of hours left of the 13th, I Googled and found the novena to St Rita, which we could pray until the 22nd for the Irish referendum vote because it does look like a hopeless cause. It’s being treated as a foregone conclusion that the vote will be in favour of gay “marriage”. Here is the link to the novena anyway
http://www.prayerbook.com/Prayers/Rita/rita.htm
There was a time when a body wondered: what if the Bishops were to be told about these iniquities? Then a body realised they knew and didn’t see the need to act. Then a body wondered: what if the Nuncio knew? He did but didn’t act. Then a body thought: aha! What if the head of the CDf knew? He did and didn’t act. Then a body thought: Got it! The Pope must be informed. He was and didn’t act. Now, why not? Because they are all in it together and our only recourse is to the SSPX.
There is nowhere else to achieve safety. To attend their poisonous services (N.O.) is to put one’s soul at risk. We have decided to take all our family, all eight of them, out of this novus ordo minefield in order to preserve their souls. As we said to our eldest, it’s like the frog in the water. Put him into hot water and he’ll soon jump out. Put him into cold water and gradually heat it up. He’ll happily acquiesce! And that’s precisely what has happened to Catholics these past 50 years; they have sleepwalked into apostasy. May God help us all!
Crofterlady,
How did your eight children react to the news that they were going to stop attending the NO? I presume some are older and so it must have been a shock to them?
Margaret Mary, The reactions were a mixture of understanding (older ones) and shock (younger ones). The older ones knew it was the right course of action but the younger ones were confused. We have always, since about 1998, gone on and on about the way the parish was going. Every Sunday without fail my husband had to take the catechists to task until we finally removed our children from their poison and did it ourselves.
So there never was a “eureka” moment in our home rather it was always part of their lives. They themselves identified heresies at Mass etc., and I remember one Sunday whilst abroad, the priest invented the words of Consecration and our eldest son (12 years old) protested and we all left. Nobody else seemed to notice!
Because Mass attendance was drummed into them from birth it’s very difficult for them to NOT attend. One daughter said: ” The Mass is the Mass however badly it’s said and if it is available, we should go”. So you see, MM, it is very upsetting all around. I don’t think they realise that it is affecting their Faith. They rarely seem to pray earnestly during Mass but nudge each other when heresies are spoken. It almost seems like they are waiting for something to nudge about!
When we are somewhere where a Tridentine Mass is available (whoever says it) we make a huge effort to get there. I notice, (and I AM NOT just saying this) that they are more respectful and prayerful.
There are priests trained in and willing to say the TLM but the bishop won’t encourage or even liberally allow this. There are always “conditions”! They care more about the rules and regulations than they do about souls.
To conclude, our children have stayed moral and upright DESPITE our pastors and NOT because of them! They’ll answer before Almighty God.
He’s living up to his name, it seems.
Ultimately, this should be regarded as being no different from priests advocating theft or murder.
It is not ridiculous to behold, that there are priests publicly spouting views in opposition to Catholic doctrine; though this should hardly come as a surprise to anyone even remotely informed as to the state of the Church.
These kind of overtly attention-seeking, heretical antics have reached as high as the Bishops Conference of Germany.
Of course these men should resign, but they will not – because their understanding of their identity and role is fundamentally different from that of the genuine Catholic priest. Rather than priests, these men understand themselves as social workers with divine mandate.
The Bishops wont do anything because their main role today is simply to consume oxygen and occupy space; the notion of governing their dioceses and protecting the faithful has long since gone out of fashion, for most of them.
The Games a Bogey . These so called men “certainly can’t call them Catholic Priests “are obviously of a Homosexual origin and are voting for Worldly pleasures . To vote for the sin of Sodomy is surely a step to far and it’s their chance of getting to involve more of their Homosexual buddies on a more friendlier basis . Surely their Bishops have to step in and absolve them from their priestly duties they just want to have their cake and eat it at the same time. When they were talking that Homosexual Marriage garbage did they explain how these unions will be consummated. What was it our Lord said “It would be better if a millstone be hung around their necks and that they be cast into the deepest part of the Ocean”. Over and down and out.
FOOF,
Although it is, obviously, a possibility, the shocking support of these priests for homosexual activity doesn’t necessarily mean that they are homosexually active themselves. I do, in general, tend to think that it can’t be possible, surely, for someone who is right thinking to condone such evil unless they are guilty of it themselves, but – as WF pointed out on another thread when the same insinuation was made about Cardinal Nichols due to his support for the “gay” lifestyle and his celebration of a “gay Mass” – it is just as likely that they are followers of fashion, that this sort of support for homosexuality is merely another form of human respect, wanting to be thought “with it” and “cool” and “tolerant” blah blah. Weakness of character, in other words, with a massive dose of ignorance thrown in for good measure. Their support for this “lifestyle” reveals massive ignorance of the serious issues surrounding homosexuality and their consciences are manifestly un-informed. Culpable ignorance, however, is sinful and in a matter as serious as the natural moral order, undoubtedly gravely, mortally sinful. These priests need our prayers as well as our fraternal and very firm correction.
Your remark about “how these unions will be consummated” goes to the heart of all of this – I notice that nobody ever speaks of what homosexuals actually DO and I wonder how many of these “enlightened” and “progressive” (as in progressive cancer) priests have ever visited a “gay” website and seen the porn depicted there, which appears to be a normal and accepted part of the lifestyle, along with the crudity of language. I considered publishing some of this stuff in our June newsletter, so visited one of these websites. I couldn’t stomach it and got out of there in double-quick time. Utter filth.
So, these priests are not necessarily homosexually active themselves, although it is always a possibility since they are clearly not repulsed by it, as right thinking people are, but it is just as likely that, as WF said on another thread, they have simply fallen prey to human respect and want to be seen as “tolerant”, blissfully, it seems, unaware that, this “lifestyle” is unhealthy, not just for the soul but for the body as well, and unaware, too, that their “tolerance” for it is a false charity, based on nothing more than propaganda.
There are leaders and there are those who need to be lead. These priests fall into the latter.
They are the type that stands back at the beginning to see how things are going to pan out before they make their move and then they join the crowd.
They find it easier this way: less hassle and a good way to make yourself popular.
I never ever smoked despite the fact that most of the people I knew smoked, even at school. I
was never influenced by what other people (the majority did). I wasn’t being stubborn or awkward, I just didn’t allow myself to be manipulated by anyone else.
I am the type of person that governments don’t like. These type of priests ARE the darlings of the lawmakers.
Franker,
Well said. Absolutely, well said.
You describe, precisely, the weakness of character that we are witnessing all around us. Following the crowd; much easier than doing the right thing – at least if you care about the opinion of others. Like you, I don’t give a toss.
So, in case I forget to mention it, when I read your post, I thought to myself…
Well said!
Editor
I agree with your reply (obviously).
Seriously, and I don’t wish to be uncharitable, but I can’t get myself to understand the craze that started after Princess Di died when everyone began laying flowers at every opportunity that arose in a show of “emotion” for complete strangers.
As for the candles . It’s not all that long ago (well, before VAT 2) that Catholics were laughed at for lighting candles. Now they are all the rage.
If I went to an abortion clinic with a bouquet of flowers or a candle I would probably get lynched.
Sorry if I have strayed from the topic.
I’m from Donegal myself although I don’t know this Priest , I do know a good few from around the diocese. What I have observed over time is the fact that there is a clear line of cleavage emerging between the Priests with a strong Marian devotion and those who have not.The Priests who show love and veneration for The Blessed Virgin Mary are clearly the ones who possess a true sense of the supernatural and it shows.
Unfortunately there are some priests in the diocese that are actively attacking the faith as a matter of mission. promoting liberation theology, celtic (pagan) spirituallity , distorting the scriptures , denying the reality of the miracles of Christ and the historical truths of our faith. They try to bring God down to earth, instead of raising our minds and souls to God. Please pray for them.
As a matter of interest the Bishop of the diocese is Dr Philip Boyce, a Carmelite who has on at least two occasions met with Sr Lucia at the Carmel in Coimbre, Portugal.
Tommy, that’s very interesting indeed. And good for us to hear on the eve of the Feast of Our Lady of Fatima (there will be a thread going up to mark the Feast, folks, so hold off posting any links until you can do so on that thread. Please and thank you… or, putting it another way – that’s an order 😀 )
I found a quote today from Pius XII which I think applies to these priests today:
“Catholics who profess and particularly those who defend and spread the materialistic and anti-Christian doctrine of the Communists, ipso facto, as apostates from the Catholic Faith, incur excommunication.” (quoted in Fatima in Twilight, with original source footnoted.)
If these two priests – and the others to whom you refer “that are actively attacking the faith…” – do not incur automatic excommunication, then I’d like to meet the priest who does. And recommend that he invoke discrimination laws to challenge his accuser(s).
It’s ludicrous to think that priests like Father Gruner, RIP, and Archbishop Lefebvre, are bad-mouthed around the world and labelled as “disobedient”, suspended, excommunicated for the crime of adhering to the entirety of the Catholic Faith while those clergy who are openly attacking it, remain “priests in good standing.”
They’re certainly NOT in good standing with God – of that we may be absolutely certain.
I’m very interested that Bishop Boyce met with Sr Lucia twice – it’s incredible, then, that he did not issue a much stronger statement (of intent to take action against his shameless and faithless priest) rather than the woolly diplomatic speak reported in the Irish press.
Exactly Frankier. During the (yawn) election campaign Nigel Farage said in an interview that older people disapproved of homosexual behaviour because ‘that is the way they were brought up’.
Which puts paid to the forlorn hope, expressed on our General Election thread, that he was just being prudent, keeping his powder dry, until after they had some MPs in Parliament.
Hi Editor, just to answer your question earlier about bishop Boyce.
He is well loved and respected by the better priests and despised by the
liberal crowd.His timidity has allowed these bold as brass modernists to roll over him. Having personally confronted them I know how they try to
intimadate anyone who would stand up to them. No excuse for the bishop though. Those priests should have been suspended.His governance has been weak on this and on other important issues.
Tommy,
Thank you for that. For some reason that I can’t work out, your comments are going into moderation. This happens from time to time, but it seems to always, or often, happen to your comments and I don’t want you to think you are being singled out for moderation – that’s not the case. I’ll check our settings to see if I can fix it, but it won’t be today, unfortunately, as I’m going to be away from my computer a lot, but asap, will look into it.
In the meantime, thank you for this clarification about Bishop Boyce’s timid natural disposition – it seems to be a common problem among bishops who appear to share a difficulty in communicating with others and who, to a man, want to avoid conflict at any cost. I do not understand why they accept episcopal office when they must know that they really do want a quiet life. Any kind of management post with responsibility – and authority – over others, is designed to END the quiet life!
Thanks Ed. Well said.
I just thought I would alert everyone to the voting poll on the website homepage because the pro-homosexuals are obviously targeting it, as it keeps showing a lead for the liberals.
I think we should all make sure they don’t win!
Don’t worry about the voting poll. It shows that the so called “liberals” are visiting our site (as if we didn’t know!) I just smile when I see the results – the polls are not scientific anyway, just popular polls and it’s interesting to see how hard the libs will work to have their say and skew the vote in their favour.
In fact, they are working much harder than the many neo-Catholics who visit our site and who refrained from signing the Open Letter about Mgr Loftus. They’ve shown that they hate Catholic Truth more than they love the Faith, incredibly.
However, thank you for your concern – much appreciated, but don’t let it bother you. It doesn’t bother me, one iota!
The fact is, there is no question that the two priests under discussion on this thread have placed themselves outside of the Church. Not a shred of doubt about it. The fact that their bishop has chosen not to act to correct them and to protect the people in their pastoral care, is seriously negligent
A little Hymn I wrote to Saint Patrick to protect Ireland again in her hour of need.
Patrick.
From a far off distant land you came among us,
You heard the cry of Erin in the night,
And to the Emerald Isle came swiftly sailing,
From darkness you brought us to the light.
Patrick, Saint Patrick, Erin’s still calling,
Dear Saint of Ireland,
Bless us this morning.
From your mansion in heaven with the angels,
And Our Lady, Mother Mary, Queen of all,
Remind Her of Her children in Erin,
Where Saint Patrick, you answered God’s call.
Patrick, Saint Patrick, Erin’s still calling,
Dear Saint of Ireland,
Bless us this morning.
Great words but it doesn’t go with the tune Hail Glorious St Patrick – I’ve just tried it! LOL!
I just hope St Patrick hears the words and does what he can to bring Erin to her senses on 22 May.
I think your daughter is just being honest, it’s true that most young people don’t see any issue with homosexuality. They’ve been brainwashed.
Is there not something buried ìn canon law tomes that would confirm that these priests are automatically excommunicated. ..???
If Archbishop Lefebvre got excommunicated for consecrating bishops, even though the Pope recognised that he did really need bishops….but it was petty politics of if and when they could get round to granting him the permission to go ahead and consecrate….exasperated by the Vatican shilly shallying over dates the Archbishop went ahead and confered the “fulness” of the priesthood on the bishops he consecrated. …this was a sacramental act….a valid act…though illicitly carried out…these men are truly Catholic Bishops….no one not even the Popes have denied this.
These Irish priests are publicly calling for the corruption of one of the seven sacraments….if they talk like this and vote accordingly. …then it is only a matter of time …if some of them haven’t already done it by now. …that homosexual “marriages” are conducted openly in “Catholic” churches…..
Surely this would mean automatic excommunication…..???
Crouchback,
I think they must be automatically excommunicated if they don’t believe in the authority of the Church to pronounce on the moral law. How can anybody say they don’t accept God’s teaching on anything and still be in the Church?
One poster here in Ireland says “Vote Yes,because Marriage matters”.On the contrary,it should say “Vote No,because Marriage matters.The link below shows there is some sense out there.
http://www.hoganstand.com/Tipperary/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=236935
Tirrey,
That’s good news about the celebrity NO voter but only one?
Got this e-mail from Citizen Go:
“In the context of the rapidly approaching referendum on same-sex marriage in Ireland on 22nd May (next Friday!), people around the world should be made aware that this push for same-sex marriage in Ireland has not at all been a “home-grown” phenomenon, but, rather, a carefully-orchestrated and massively well-funded assault on the natural family, coming from private American funding.
Over the last 13 years, Atlantic Philanthropies, an American organisation, has donated €735 Million to causes in Ireland. And, according to their own website, roughly €25 Million of that money has been earmarked for the promotion of LGBT interests in Ireland.”
Therese.
I don’t believe that any amount of money will have influence on how a person votes, unless the cash is going straight into their bank accounts.
The Irish managed to support abortion without any form of bribe.
Frankier,
A very good point. Of course the funding of these campaigns aimed at the useful idiots among us, will make a difference to those of very weak faith. People who have been undernourished spiritually and liturgically for over 50 years now, with a moral education provided by RTE and the Irish Times, are easy prey for the LGBT campaigners.
The homosexual lobby is committed to its immoral cause with activists who are filled with an enthusiasm to match the early Christians. Unfortunately, the 21st century doubting Thomases are no match for these activists, because they are either falling by the wayside, faithless to the core, or jumping on the nearest bandwagon, at every turn.
God help Ireland in the days leading up to this diabolical referendum.
I do Frankier. People are enormously influenced by the media, and by peer pressure. The amount of propaganda which has flooded all of the media in the last two decades (at least) has had a huge effect on how people view homosexuality, and this propaganda has cost many millions to disseminate.
Therese
Any Catholic who is influenced by the media or peer pressure to vote for something that should be naturally repugnant to them isn’t worthy of being called Catholic.
There will be plenty of Catholics voting yes who never ever bother about reading a paper or listening to the news.
At the end of the day the media only print what their readers or listeners wish to see or hear. That’s how they sell their products.
Oh I agree Frankier, with bells on. However, the fact that American “Philanthropies” is willing to give 25 million dollars to promote the homosexual agenda in a foreign country is a point worthy of note.
Franker,
the irish never “supported abortion”. It was foisted onto us by our Godless political leaders. We never got an opportunity to say we do want abortion or we don’t want abortion. The question was always put in the fomat “do you want some abortion or more abortion” if you know what I mean. It was never a straight Yes or No. Even if the Irish had voted to outlaw abortion completely, the government would just re-run the referendum because they got the “wrong” answer! They did it with the Nice and Lisbon treaties because they didn’t like the answer they got the first time. Anyway, most people do not seem to care about God’s law anymore; the average Catholic in Ireland just sees money coming and he’ll vote for anything. It is very disheartening for those of us who are trying very hard to defeat the devil’s minions to face such apathy from fellow Catholics and downright hatred of the Church from the Irish media.
Editor
As I have stated on another thread, in 1969 the song Je t’aime was at the top of Ireland’s charts when the rest of the world had it banned.
If ten times as much money was spent trying to get them to go back to the Church it wouldn’t influence them one little bit.
About fifteen years ago I visited the Church in the village where my father was born and the priest announced that although the village population had doubled in the previous few years (5 years) his congregation had halved.
I remember also visiting Knock around the same time and seeing filthy, double-meaning car window stickers for sale among the rosary beads and medals.
Ireland is virtually an atheistic country now.
N O T I C E …
A reader rang this evening to ask me to announce an opportunity for those within reach of Glasgow to pray for Ireland before the Blessed Sacrament on the eve of the Referendum.
The Thursday night Traditional Latin Mass in Balornock tomorrow night, 21st May, at 6.15pm will be followed by Benediction and Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament.
The Blessed Sacrament will be exposed until midnight, to allow people to visit and spend time in prayer for Ireland as Catholics prepare to go to the polls to vote in the referendum on Friday.
Here’s the address for those who may not know the parish:
Immaculate Heart of Mary
162 Broomfield Road
Balornock
Glasgow
G21 3UE
Editor,
much thanks is due to your reader organising reparation. I hope that it makes a difference. There’s a general election in Ireland next year…. hopefully Fine Gael and Labour will be wiped out.
Spiritus,
There was a very good turnout considering the event was arranged quite quickly only last night. And it was beautiful. Peaceful Mass, Benediction and Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, usual Benediction hymns (Latin) and the “Come Holy Spirit…” This was followed by a short “Evening Prayer” and then silent adoration.
I was unable to stay until midnight but did manage a Holy Hour so if there’s a NO vote, that’ll be why 😀 Otherwise, I’ll switch my intention to wiping out Fine Gael and Labour next year !
I have just put a link on the homepage showing the lengths the YES campaign is going to get votes – actually bringing people over from the UK in boats! I also put the following video on the homepage, as we need Our Lady’s intercession urgently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B91RUv2lI8
God bless Ireland tomorrow – as never before…
… bringing people over in boats… Yes, I heard allright that the airports were very busy with returning emigrants returning to cast their votes. I have never heard of that happening before. Hopefully, most of them will be “NO” votes!!
I am praying very hard for Ireland today and hope the vote goes the right way. I think there is a campaign by the Yes people to get votes from the Irish in the UK, so I don’t think the returning voters will be No votes. It’s so terribly sad.
I still think, as a cock-eyed optimist, that we may be in for a pleasant surprise. But if not, I will want to emigrate to another planet. This one will be past hope.
Pew Catholic,
I sincerely hope you are correct. I really do. I’m hearing that it is likely to be very close but my sources are not at all confident it will be the result we want.
St Patrick and all the other saints of Ireland will have to pull out all the stops tomorrow.
Mars, here I come!
This report from the USA is of interest today – note the quote from GK Chesterton: “Don’t ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”
I will be away from my computer quite a bit today, but will be keeping an eye on the referendum vote when I’m here. Let’s all pray very hard for a faithful (to God’s Moral Law) vote today.
Our Lady of Knock, pray for us.
Your Excellencies and Lordships,
“It is an error to believe that Christ did not teach a determined body of doctrine applicable to all times and to all men”.
Those are the wise and prophetic words of St. Pius X, the great crusader against modernism and liberalism. Not only did they condemn the sinister and insidious enemy in the early 20th century, but they serve as a condemnation of the prevailing modernism today. It is as if he saw a portent of worse things to come. We are living this today, with the crisis in the Church, in terms of the loss of faith, collapse in vocations and terminal decline in morals and Mass attendance. It is also abominable that many Catholic support grave moral evils such as abortion, contraception and homosexual relationships, and the custodians of the faith, such as yourselves, apparently do very little to expound the faith in its beauty. This leads many to think that you secretly support the above aberrations, as you condone them through your silence. Much is spoken of ‘mercy’ in these days of confusion, but this is misguided mercy. A major obligation on Catholics is to admonish sinners, the third spiritual work of mercy. This does not mean to confirm people in their sin, but to help them repent and find the love of God. When it comes to politicians, a proud class of people, a good way to make them repent would be to excommunicate them. Being ‘cut off’ from the Church will help them realise the gravity of their sins and bring their lives into conformity with God’s will, and bring them back on to the road of salvation. Also, many Priests in Ireland are currently supporting same sex ‘marriages’ and denigrating the Church’s teaching from the pulpit. They must be defrocked to send the message to other heretical Priests.
Likewise, manifest public sinners, according to canon law, are barred from receiving holy communion. Canon 915 says the following: ‘Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion’. Therefore, it is obvious for all to see that Irish politicians are persevering in manifest grave sin by voting against God’s law, and it would be an act of mercy to excommunicate them, temporarily, until they convert back to the faith.
Likewise, I fail to see how Catholics in Ireland can, in good conscience, vote for these unions, when the Church’s teaching in crystal clear. Therefore, it seems to me the Priests have neglected teaching the Faith, as have the Bishops. The Baltimore Catechism states that matrimony is the ‘Sacrament which unites a Christian man and woman in lawful marriage’, and the ends of marriage are ‘(1.) To enable the husband and wife to aid each other in securing the salvation of their souls, (2.) To propagate or keep up the existence of the human race by bringing children into the world to serve God (3.) To prevent sins against the holy virtue of purity by faithfully obeying the laws of the marriage state’. It is impossible for homosexuals to attain to any of these things whilst they live in sin. Likewise, Our Lord Himself said in Mark 10:6-10, ‘But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife. And they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder’. This shows that God ordained marriage for men and women to be joined in an indissoluble union, to the exclusion of all others.
Finally, I feel much of the blame for the loss of faith must be laid at the feet of the Pope and his post-1958 predecessors, who have seriously neglected their divinely ordained duties in terms of Ireland and elsewhere, through teaching the faith. This laxity has reached new lows under Pope Francis, who is a major heretic, denied the faith on numerous occasions (i.e. with atheists, birth control, denouncing abortion, ecumenism, no salvation outside the Church), tolerated dissent, such as with the case of the Bishop of Antwerp, who said ‘we’ must recognise some form of same sex union within the Church. As Cardinal Mario Luigi Ciappi, the Papal Theologian between 1955-88 said, regarding Our Lady’s prophecies at Fatima in 1917, “In the Third Secret, it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.” This has clearly come into fruition.
I implore Your Excellencies and Lordships to defend Ireland from this satanic onslaught, teach the faith faithfully and without any whittling down and finally, as a matter of grave urgency, do not make the same mistake as the Kings of France, and consecrate Ireland to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and Immaculate Heart of Mary, because as Our Lady sat at Fatima, ‘in the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph’.
Please be assured of a remembrance in my daily prayers for yourselves and for Ireland.
God bless you
Signed,
Alarmed and Concerned,
Huddersfied
That’s a great letter.
I am also praying for Ireland especially today. It would be great if Pew Catholic is proved right.
Overwhelmingly Yes.
If God decides he has had enough I would feel safer nearer to Trident than to Ireland.
Time, I think, to get back my UK passport.
The “No” campaign have conceded defeat.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/11625847/Irish-gay-marriage-referendum-No-campaigners-concede-defeat.html
There’s also a link in that report to another report of Ruth Davison, leader of the Conservatives in Scotland, saying she wants to marry her girlfriend in Ireland. It’s all very depressing.
That is really depressing. I couldn’t believe people travelled back to Ireland simply to vote YES. Evil knows no bounds, I guess.
This is just heartbreaking! What has happened to Ireland that so many, presumably mostly baptised Catholics can support such an aberration? Where is the catechesis? What do they understand marriage to be? Next they will be declaring gay union a sacrament! Nothing would now surprise me.
Did not quite understand how your blog works. Please use this name instead of my own full name. Thanks
Editor: I changed your name as requested. I could do this because you are a first visitor (first of many contributions, I hope) but because you used your real name to log in, you will need to change it in your dashboard before you comment again.
To do this, (1) log in as usual (2) click on “My Profile” (3) scroll to where it says “show name publicly as” and type in Christiana (4) remember to “save changes” and ‘Christiana’ will show through in future every time you comment. Unless you change it in My Profile, your log in name will show publicly. If you struggle, I can do it for you but would need your password, which you could email to editor@catholictruthscotland.com.
It’s really not difficult, though, so have a bash!
Well, it’s looking quite certain that the vote for gay marriage has gone through. It’s sad but not surprising- Ireland hasn’t been a Catholic country for decades. It demonstrates just how far removed we are from any kind of all proper understanding of what marriage is and what its primary purpose is, namely for the generation of new life.
The No campaign was quite pathetic, but in fairness, they had an impossible task. They had to argue against gay marriage without bringing morality into the debate. If anyone were to have argued that gay marriage should not be allowed because it’s not marriage and homosexual acts are gravely sinful and contradict nature, they would have been lynched. So they had to base the argument on the stability of family life, which while valid, isn’t going to stand up in the public debate. If the privileges of the married state are severed from their natural ends, and human sexuality becomes nothing more than self-gratification, then there is no real reason why gay people should not get married. It’s really just the logical progression of a disordered belief about marriage. So effectively they had to argue against equality and in favour of discrimination, a point that the Yes campaign was not slow to exploit.
As I said, this is sad news, but predicted. It doesn’t change anything in terms of the decline of Christendom- that’s been happening for centuries anyway. Like everywhere else, it only applies to civil marriage. The Church won’t be forced to recognise these relationships as marriage (yet), and I don’t really care if gay people want to play houses. Of greater concern to me is that this comes during the same week as a young Christian family is being crucified in the north for refusing to make a cake that contained an explicitly blatant political slogan in favour of gay marriage. This is where we are headed. They didn’t refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding- apparently they have done that before. This family was deliberately targeted because they were openly Christian, and now they have been dragged through the courts and publicly vilified.
And the north of Ireland doesn’t even [allow] gay marriage as yet. The only good thing to have come from Partition.
Alex,
“The No campaign was quite pathetic, but in fairness, they had an impossible task. They had to argue against gay marriage without bringing morality into the debate”
And why was that? Allow me to answer my own question…
It was due to the disgraceful dereliction of episcopal duty by Ireland’s bishops who from the get-go refused to speak out dutifully as shepherds protecting their flocks. They clearly cared more about what the Irish Times thought of them that about the terrible Judgment ahead of them. They are – without a doubt – on a fast track to Hell, no question about it. Being apostates, though, that won’t figure in their rationale.
Instead of clearly stating that this is a moral issue, and that the Church, not the State, is the God-given guardian of the Moral Law, so that numpties like Fr Brian O’Fearraigh wouldn’t make a fool of himself by announcing that it is a state not a Church matter and thus leading souls astray and giving his vote to evil, the Bishops weakly said “reflect before you vote to change the definition of marriage.” Oh, very profound. Very stirring. Really made me think that did – NOT!
It certainly looks like they got what they wanted. The people reflected and decided to go with the flow. After all, it’s difficult enough for most people to go against the crowd when their eternal salvation depends on it, but if it’s a matter of opinion and public opinion says it’s a good thing and the bishops say next to nothing and when they do speak, talk rubbish, then what other result really could we expect? There’s been no Catholic education to speak of during the past fifty odd years, poorly trained and ill-formed clergy and wimps for Bishops. Rumour has it that activists for the NO camp use meet for coffee in the nearest telephone box, and debated whether to apologise to the Bishops for opposing “equality” in Ireland.
No wonder supporters were flown in a boated in from all over the place – a national party! Who’d want to miss that?
For the first time since 21 February, I have experienced, today, “happiness” that my mother is no longer on this earth, or, more accurately, “relief”. Not a day has gone by but I think of her and I don’t mind admitting that I am struggling to get used to life without her; tears are seldom far away when she comes to mind. But today, as I watched the shocking scenes of jubilation on the TV news and listened to one strange looking (possibly “transgender”) commentator acknowledging that Ireland WAS once a Catholic country, having now “moved on”, I felt relieved that my beloved mother, so proud of being Irish, who dearly loved Ireland, did not live to see this treachery.
What on earth is it going to take for this pontiff to obey Our Lady and consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart so that we can see all of this evil overturned?
Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us. Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.
The Church was unable to take the moral high ground due to scandal, and shame, child abuse.
That abuse was largely historical and committed by men, and women, born, formed, and raised, before The Second Vatican Council.
In the case of priests, they were selected and trained, and ordained, before The Council, as were The Hierarchy who covered it up.
The Church of old has reaped what it has sown.
Only the cleansed, and renewed, Church that flows from The Council can alter the situation for the better, but it will take time.
Irish Eyes,
I take issue with your claim that the abuse pre-dates Vatican II, at least most of it doesn’t. I copied this article from the well know Scots journalist, Gerald Warner, giving the facts.
The Obama principle that a crisis is too good to waste is clearly being applied in the case of the clerical child abuse scandal in Ireland. A spin is being put on the shocking revelations in the report on abuse in the archdiocese of Dublin to implicate the “pre-Conciliar” Catholic Church in the wrongdoings of post-Vatican II pederasts. In the process, the name of a good man has been dragged into the cesspit, for political purposes.
The Most Reverend John Charles McQuaid, Archbishop of Dublin (1940-1972) was a great Catholic prelate. Under his pastoral leadership, the numbers of clergy and religious increased by more than 50 per cent, he created over 60 new parishes and built over 80 new churches and 350 schools. But he was a Vatican II sceptic who implemented reform conservatively, in accordance with what would now be called the “hermeneutic of continuity”. So he is a bogey figure to radicals.
Most unjustly, his name has been dragged into this scandal. The official Commission’s Report states: “During the period under review, there were four Archbishops – Archbishops McQuaid, Ryan, McNamara and Connell.” Not so. The “period under review” is set out in the Commission’s Terms of Reference as “the period 1 January 1975 to 1 May 2004”. Archbishop McQuaid retired in 1972. The Report very misleadingly claims that by 1987 three Archbishops – McQuaid, Ryan and McNamara – had between them complaints against 17 priests.
But only one of them, the anonymous “Father Edmondus”, was suspect during McQuaid’s watch and even the report concedes that, of the 320 complaints relating to those priests, only three dated back to the McQuaid era, presumably against “Father Edmondus” and in a period prior to that covered by the Commission’s Terms of Reference. On the basis of that isolated allegation they attempt to align Archbishop McQuaid with his negligent successors.
Revealingly, the Report says: “As is shown in Chapter 4, canon law appears to have fallen into disuse and disrespect during the mid 20th century.” Yes; and we all know why – the post-Vatican II anarchic denunciations of “legalism”, of “oppressive” sexual morality and Church teaching generally, promoted by the modernists. As regards implementing canon law against abusers, the Report concedes that Archbishop McQuaid “set the processes in motion but did not complete them [difficult to do when you are dead]. Archbishops Ryan and McNamara do not seem to have ever applied the canon law.”
Well, who ever did, in the trendy, let-it-all-hang-out 1970s and 1980s? The image that has sedulously been propagated is of Irish child abuse perpetrated by priests in soutanes and birettas, cowled monks muttering Latin incantations and nuns in starched wimples and mediaeval habits.
On the contrary, the nightmare orgy of relentless mortal sin recorded in this report was committed by modern priests, with a strip of white celluloid in place of a Roman collar – if they deigned to wear clerical dress – devastating their church sanctuaries as badly as they devastated childrem’s lives, abolishing all the devotions such as Benediction, the Rosary, regular confession, devotion to saints, etc that had sustained Irish faith for centuries. One priest admitted to abusing over 100 children. For that he was indulged; but if he had celebrated the Latin Tridentine Mass his feet would not have touched the ground.
The BBC (to turn to light relief) has exploited this scandal in a style that vindicates its claim to have succeeded Pravda as the leading disseminator of disinformation. A radical priest was produced on Radio 4 to testify that an excessively strict code of sexual morality in the Church was to blame: one shudders to think what excesses would have been committed if the code had been more lax.
Was clerical celibacy the problem? prompted a BBC interviewer. Of course it was. We all know that what a priestly abuser of boys (and this is mainly a homosexual scandal – the Report records a ratio of 2.3 boy victims to 1 girl) needs is a wife – ask any of the Anglican vicars who have provided a living to the red-top tabloids for generations.
Let us set the record straight. This filthy abomination was a scandal of the post-Vatican II, open-windows, relevant, touchy-feely (often, it seems, inappropriately so) Catholic Church. So let the ecumaniacs, the liturgical animators, the Easter People take ownership of it and desist from blackening the reputation of a decent prelate and, by implication, of the unchanging Church that sustained Ireland through centuries of oppression.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geraldwarner/100018182/lets-get-it-straight-irish-child-abuse-was-perpetrated-by-the-trendy-modern-post-vatican-ii-catholic-church/
You are correct in saying that the Church is reaping what She has down, but I disagree that the pre Conciliar hierarchy is wholly to blame. I think theost conciliar hierarchy is at least equally to blame, if not more so. The demise of the Church on Ireland, like everywhere else has come about because of a betrayal of the Faith, first and foremost. The clerical abuse scandals are disgraceful, but they are sins against the flesh. Our Lord made it clear that so s against the flesh can be forgiven quite easily with due contrition; however, what we have seen since V2 has been a loss of Faith which is a sin against the Holy Spirit, and that’s a great deal more difficult to forgive.
I remember when they legalised same sex marriage in Scotland, the cardinal there spoke out stronger than most against it- certainly a lot stronger than his Irish counterparts. The next thing you know, he’s in the papers having been involved in gay scandals while teaching in a seminary. He opened his mouth, so they dug the dirt on him and destroyed his reputation. The same would have happened if the Irish bishops were to have said anything stronger than what they did. And it is an open secret that there is a very high proportion of !an who struggle with same aex attraction in the priesthood.
Editor,
I’m sorry for your troubles. It reminds me of a prophesy that in the end times the living would envy the dead. But I’m not despondent about it. Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart will triumph.
Irish Eyess
The abuse in the Church was committed mainly by men who were never ever
called to the priesthood.
They were child abusers who found an almost foolproof occupation to indulge their filthy ways and took advantage of the situation.
The abusers in Ireland were mainly Irish citizens: sons, brothers, uncles and sometimes fathers of fellow Irishmen. They weren`t strangers who invaded the country.
Until today I wondered how such a small country could produce so many homosexual (it is only homosexuals who interfere with boys) perverts but after the scenes on todays TV news channels I found the answer.
It seems to me that everyone who voted yes was either homosexual or lesbian.
They`ll be selling see-through, high-viz jackets next for the construction workers and high heeled, peep-toe wellingtons for the farmers in the fashionable stores in Dublin.
All joking aside, the scenes in Ireland today were pathetic, to put it mildly.
You say it will take time to cleanse and renew the Church. Maybe they could practice first by cleansing and renewing the entire country except, of course, the Christian North.
Vote DUP, I say 🙂
Frankier I couldn’t agree with you more I would definitely vote D U P if I were in N I . Also the Church should come out and state Maggies cry (we are not for turning ) Can always mind the late Richard Harris being asked questions about his faith his answer was ( I would rather die a bad Catholic than see them change the rules ) He knew as we know that the words of scripture watered down are not worth speaking. Also agree with you that it seems a country steeped in Homosexuals. How long before a vote that the sexes of children be not named till they reach puberty ? Sounds grotesque but I honestly feel that’s the road that this society is now heading . After all who a few years ago would have envisioned us even discussing same sex whatever you want to call it -it’s certainly never marriage .
Can understand your feelings, used to be proud of Irish blood but lost that long ago . I know it’s a different subject, but when 10 men were starving themselves to death for a principle their so called country men in Eire done nothing . What does it profit a man if he gains The Whole World and suffers the loss of his soul. Only been in Ireland once for 4 days although it was in the 1980s it was 4 days to long. God Bless.
FOOF
I agree entirely with what you say and more.
There wasn’t all that many took to the boats or planes when fellow countrymen were fighting for their civil rights.
A couple of packets of crisps and a few bandages thrown over the border was their contribution. They didn’t want the Red Cross to be involved though. They only operate in Third World countries you know, not in a modern Ireland.
A few months ago I heard a Coleen from just over the border saying on RTE that they “didn’t really know what was happening in The North”.
It’s a bit like me saying I don’t know what is happening upstairs in my own house.
If truth be told, they didn’t want to know.
Gerry Adams and McGuiness allowed a Member of Parliament to die and then dived into politics themselves with the result we had their horrible
SF representative on TV yesterday (McDonald) in virtual ecstasy over
the legalising of Sodomy.
Don’t get me started.
I would agree that most people in the South are ambivalent about about the North. They know more about England than they do about the northern part of their own country.
I don’t live in Ireland any more, and I’ve never actually lived in the North, but if I did live there now, I would indeed be in a predicament at election time. I can hear my grandparents turn in their graves at the thought of voting for a Unionist party, but they are the only ones who come anywhere close to adhering to the natural law.
That really shows up the state of Catholicism today.
Irish Eyess,
You’ve been listening too much to the secular media. You think exactly as the Church’s enemies have programmed you to think, a very common failing in Post-Vatican II Catholics.
The only cleansing Vatican II has achieved is the cleansing of Catholics of their former faith, piety and holy zeal. This “renewed” Church you speak of doesn’t exist because the Mystical Body of Christ is forever spotless and immaculate, never requiring renewal. If you knew the teaching of the Popes up to the Council you would know that what you suggest is both blasphemous and heretical. Churchmen can certainly fall into very serious sin, as Judas did, but Churchmen are not the Church!!
I should also add that the majority of child-abusing clerics in Ireland, as elsewhere, though their numbers are relatively small in comparison to the numbers of priests worldwide, were trained and ordained post-Vatican II, not pre-Vatican II. There would certainly have been no Catholic voting in favour of “gay marriage” in the old Ireland, that’s for sure. So what does that tell you about the “cleansed” and “renewed” Church of Vatican II?
And as regards those “women” of the Church you mention, assuming you refer to the Magdalene Sisters, you really should read “Cathy’s Real Story” by Hermann Kelly. It is very important to study the evidence as it actually exists (objectively), not as the Church’s enemies present it!
“The only cleansing Vatican II has achieved is the cleansing of Catholics of their former faith, piety and holy zeal.” Spot on Athanasius. Spot on, too, Fidelis. Anybody who thinks the Church is in a better place today than it was before Vatican II is in denial.
Blinkers off Irish Eyes.
Or as Peter Mullan presented (or directed) it.
Diarmuid Martin, the archbishop of Dublin, said the Church in Ireland needed to reconnect with young people and needs a reality check.
What a fool.
The oldest error in the book, to think must change with the times.
I lay the blame for this disaster, squarely at the foot of Vatican II.
It has produced a generation of lukewarm parents (and clergy) who have been largely uncatechized and poor role models for their children, who have grown up as thorough liberals who find it fashionable to be atheistic or agnostic.
———————————-
“Fool” is right, Summa. Such a whining bunch of ninnies: ‘I can’t tell people how to vote’, be damned! Yes you can, Archbishop, and you must tell Catholics in no uncertain terms, especially politicians like Kenny and his Northern counterparts like Adams, MacGuinness and McDonnell et al, that they cannot receive Communion until they have repented of their sins in the Confessional and say so publicly that they reject the absurdity of ‘gay marriage’ and proclaim marriage between one man one woman. Some hope of ++Martin and his cohort of spineless cowards ever doing that. They follow Francis think – catechesis bad – pastoral good. ‘Oh, if only we had been more pastoral than dogmatic we could have avoided all this.’ V2 inversions mean conversions?
“To Ireland in the Coming Times”: When the penny drops that the pastoral symphony hasn’t worked what will modernists resort to then?
The Church actually tell people how to vote in something like this. This wasn’t the Scottish referendum, where there was no clear cut Catholic answer, and we were free to make our own mind up. This is a moral issue and the Church has a responsibility to direct us on moral issues. I am not in a position to pass judgement on the conscience of another Catholic, but objectively, it would have been an occasion of sin to vote Yes in this referendum. At best there might have been an argument to abstain, given that the referendum was illegitimate to begin with- the state has no authority to legislate on marriage, merely recognise it. But even at that, Archbishop Martin is completely wrong.
Summa,.
“Fool” is an understatement. My options, however, are unprintable.
I found out from friends after Mass this morning that at least two bishops have encouraged the YES vote. The Bishop of Derry – see here, although I’ve yet to learn the name of Bishop Judas No. 2.
No wonder the YES campaign won – with priests, people (and quite likely Bishops) voting for this evil, it’s a wonder anyone voted NO.
Clearly, the Bishop of Derry doesn’t believe in Hell – what a shock he’s going to get!
What a frightful insult to Our Lord and His Blessed Mother. It would have been a tragedy if this had been imposed by the politicians, but it is beyond tragedy that it was passed by popular vote. It’s no great surprise the bishops didn’t speak out as they have gone AWOL now for a long time. The sun rose over Ireland this morning, people went about their normal business, the football and hurling championship has begun, but make no mistake about it, it is not the same country. Ireland is changed forever, it has turned it’s back on past generations, generations that stood firm through dungeon, fire, and sword. At the end of the day, and when all is said and done, one and a quarter million Irish men and women young and old, in privacy took pencil in hand and said yes we support same sex marriage. And that ladies and gentlemen is a tragedy of tragedies.
That this passed by popular vote is really the greatest tragedy of all. In most countries gay marriage has passed either through the courts or the legislature, so it could be argued that the population is exonerated to a degree. The government has almost forced this through. In fact, in Scotland, the government staged a pretend consultation before legalising it. The majority of respondents were against, but the government went ahead and legalised it anyway. With Ireland there is no such excuse.
Ed. A wonder that the YES campaign won…
….With all that leadership coming from Rome on the issue about standing firm with the Faith!!!
I’m scratching my head, I tell ye!
Summa,
Me, too! Something else I’m scratching my head about is…
For some reason, your post and that of Prognosticum (who is not a first time blogger – comes here from time to time) went into moderation. I can see no reason for it, so apologies to each of you for the delay in posting your most enlightening comment(s) !
If Roosevelt could call the attack on Pearl Harbour ‘a day that will live in infamy’, how much more so does that phrase now apply to May 23rd 2015 for the Irish Free (to do what you will) State? Only in this instance, we’d have to multiply it by the power of infinity.
Though written more than a century ago, Padraig Pearse’s poem ‘I am Ireland’ aptly describes the current state of the land of Saints and Scholars:
I am Ireland
I am older than the Old Woman of Beare
Great is my glory
I who gave birth to Cúchulainn the Brave
Great is my shame
My own children have sold their mother
I am Ireland
I am lonelier than the Old Woman of Beare
Words cannot express the sadness I feel for Ireland, land of my ancestors. It’s hard to believe the utter weakness of the Irish hierarchy and their utter dereliction of duty towards their flock. If I had my way I would defrock most of them and replace them with traditional priests and bishops: there are still some around.
By voting “yes” people put themselves outside the Church and the authorities should have said: “Vote ‘yes’ and you are excommunicated!” That would have sorted them!
I wonder how people feel as they go to Mass this Pentecost Sunday, if they do go, how do they square voting yes with their conscience or have they been so confused that they thought to vote no would mean they were discriminating against homosexuals. It is such a mess! I am sure that the clergy have not even tried to make people understand the impossibility of gay marriage.
Christiana,
Just when I was wondering if we’d get mixed up between Christina and your good self, I saw your avatar! No chance of any mix-up now! Great avatar! I’m off to find my sunglasses!
On topic: the fact is, the Faith has not been taught in Ireland (as here) for over 50 years, so the majority who voted in that referendum, have never been taught Catholicism and do not understand the Church’s moral teaching and its divine roots.
What happened in Ireland on Friday – described by one scandalous commentator as a “good Friday” – is the fruit of many years of (literally) NON-Catholic (lack of) education in (so-called) Catholic schools. If you get my drift!
I’ve just had an uncharitable thought ……..but rather than pray it away,I’m going to indulge it so:
As today is the Feast of Pentecost, a day noted for its strong winds, is there any chance of Enda Kenny, the next time he leaves his no doubt modest Prime Ministerial residence, being swept up into a whirlwind and dumped on Rockall with just a bit of seaweed to sustain him? Then, is there any chance that three days later, as luck would have it, he gets picked up by a passing Russian trawler whose crew (not big fans of Eurovision) are one hand short on their six month non-stop fishing run to Vladivostok (via the Arctic Circle)?
Ah, that was cathartic.
We should kill all the sodomites like it says in the bible – Leviticus 18:22. If the editor does not support, publicize and actively take part in the immediate killing of these sodomites then he is as culpable as a sodomite and should also be put to death.
Most people here are just spouting off opinion, GOD does not have opinions he has law and action. You are all going to burn unless you kill now as GOD commanded. It is written, it is clear, if you don’t then you will burn in hell – all of you.
Editor replies:
No – emphatically – we must NOT “kill all the sodomites”: the Book of Leviticus 18:22 prohibits homo-sexual activity, but makes no mention of killing them, and although Leviticus 20:13 does speak about putting to death “a man who lies with a man as with a woman” (i.e. engages in homo-sexual activity), the verses before and after call on the death sentence for others engaging in unnatural sexual activity (incest and bestiality) so the death sentence was not reserved for homosexuals. In any event, we do not literally apply such verses – they have been overtaken by the New Testament, which fulfilled the Old Law. Leviticus, is a book written specifically for the ancient Hebrews, because it treats primarily of the rituals, ceremonies etc applicable to the Hebrew priests and Levites. It really has no application in Christianity, to the best of my memory, although it’s quite some time since I’ve studied it.
As for “editor” – “he” is a “she”, I’ll have you know. Now, I suggest, with respect, that you calm down and pray for great graces for everyone who voted YES in the Irish referendum. That’s definitely more Christ-like behaviour than threatening to kill them – and me! No true Christian wishes anyone to end up in Hell, so we must do all in our power to pray for repentance for those responsible for engaging in, and legalising this evil. It really does NOT help, though, to quote Leviticus. St Paul lists categories of sinners who risk Hell and he includes “sodomites”, yes, but also others who misuse God’s gift of sexuality; fornicators, adulterers, you name it. So, please keep calm, pray and do what you can to educate people about this terrible evil swamping our society. But hold off doling out death sentences. That really is a wee bit too much like being the “judge, jury and executioner” – without the trial first! 😀
Please don’t kill the Editor! She and the blog are the last forces of sanity in a world which has gone totally bananas!
Pew Catholic,
A compliment at last! I knew if I hung around here long enough, it would pay off 😀
Here’s what Pope Gregory XVI has to say in response to the foolish words of Archbishop Diarmuid Martin and his liberal like:
“To use the words of the Fathers of Trent, it is certain that the Church ‘was instructed by Jesus Christ and His Apostles and that all truth was daily taught it by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.’ Therefore, it is obviously absurd and injurious to propose a certain ‘restoration and regeneration’ for her as though necessary for her safety and growth, as if she could be considered subject to defect or obscuration or other misfortune. Indeed these authors of novelties consider that a ‘foundation may be laid of a new human institution,’ and what Cyprian detested may come to pass, that what was a divine thing ‘may become a human Church’…” (Encyclical Mirari Vos, 1832).
Very disappointed with the result,but not surprised.the Irish have been falling over themselves,to accept this evil.Archbishop Martin may have left something on Eccles blog.
We have voted for Liberty to commit Sin unashamedly,Equality of good and Evil,Fraternity with the devil.
On this Pentecost Sunday of Irish shame, I must say after 73 years on this mortal coil I have seen it all, or maybe have had enough.
In these moments of turmoil I usually express my feeling best in doggerel verse. Here is verse one.
GLOCA MORA
How are things going in Gloca Mora
Now twinned with Sodom and Gomorrah,
Are you awaiting fire and brimstone
An epithet on Ireland’s headstone,
For Saints and Scholars you were once famed
For counter nature you are now proclaimed.
Patrick Healy
24th May 2015
Pat
What about this and I haven’t even had a pint yet?
How are things in Gloca Mora?
Oh much the same as old Gomorrah.
The Irish now have had their say
But what a price they’ll have to pay.
They’ve voted yes for sodomy
which almost rhymes with comedy
But this is not a thing to cheer
I’d rather have a pint of beer.
So here is what Oor Rab would say
If he were still alive today.
Auld Eire’s a place where nane surpasses
For effete men and butch like lasses. 💔
Pat
Just in case you are wondering what I am on about.
A poet who was born about ten minutes journey from where I live
wrote about his home town.
Auld Ayr whom ne’er a toon surpasses
For honest men and Bonnie lasses.
Although there is another local, less glamorous version.
To understand fully what is happening in this world right now, the Irish apostasy being just the latest (incredible) installment, I suggest a refresher read of the twinned prophecies of Our Lady of Quito and Fatima, found here:http://www.traditioninaction.org/OLGS/A001olgs%20fat.htm.
How far sighted Pope St. Pius X was when he wrote this prayer:
Queen of the most holy rosary, in these times of brazen impiety manifest thy power with the signs of thine ancient victories, and from thy throne, whence thou dost dispense pardon and graces,mercifully regard the Church of thy Son, his Vicar on earth, and every order of the clergy and laity, who are sore oppressed in the mighty conflict. Do thou, who art the powerful vanquisher of all heresies, hasten the hour of mercy, even though the hour of God’s justice is every day provoked by the countless sins of men. For me who am the least of men, kneeling before thee in supplication, do thou obtain the grace I need to live righteously upon earth and to reign among the just in heaven, the while in company with all faithful Christians throughout the world, I salute thee as Queen of the most holy rosary.
Queen of the most holy rosary, pray for us.
Our Lady has promised us that at the very moment when all appears to be lost, that will signify the hour of her triumph. That triumph is imminent, despite appearances!
When a civilisation is on the decline, two things happen:
1. they legislate in favour of their vices;
2. they listen to what actors say offstage.
I think that all of us here feel cut to the heart by what has happened in Ireland. I know that I, upon hearing the result, which I fully expected, I thought immediately of Our Lord’s words: When the Son of Man comes, will he find faith upon the earth?
Ireland is a train crash of a country in many respects. First of all, it is in the thrawl of a huge inferiority complex in regard of its ‘modern’ ‘partners’ on continental Europe. We only need to recall how it voted no to the Lisbon Treaty in 2008, only to overturn the vote a year later, Brussels having laid a pistol to its head. And it is in pursuit of modernity that the country has enthusiastically embraced modernity’s principal shibboleth, i.e. an aggressive secularism of which the worship of Sodom is one the principal aspects.
Of course the Church in Ireland has its responsibilities. I for one have never been inspired by either clergy or bishops in Ireland. While I am sure that there will be some notable exceptions amonst priests and religious (although I can’t think of any off hand), the Bishops, with the Archbishop of Dublin at their head, are an uninspiring bunch, well versed only in the delivery of platitudes about the Second Vatican Council. Collectively they look (if the younger generation of readers will excuse me) like a bunch of British Rail ticket collectors, and this with all due respect to British Rail ticket collectors, such as that are left. Archbishop Martin in particular is haunted by what he sees–and I believe him to be sincere, if wrong in this– as pre-Vatican II triumphalism, which he sees as his duty to decapitate whenever it raises its ugly head. And then there is the whole question of the clergy sexual abuse scandals which have completely robbed the Church of her prophetical dimension.
The referndum is a judgement on the Church in Ireland, but it is also a wake-up call to the rest of us.
What to do? I’m just a part of the problem who also wants to be part of the solution, but I suggest the following:
Bishops and priests: 1) Become well versed in Sacred Scripture, the Fathers and the Church’s authentic Magisterium, even if it means studying late into the night. You are, after all, teachers, and you can only teach (honestly) what you know. 2) Stop selling Our Lord short when called to address ecumenical questions or questions of interrigious dialogue. Do not be embarassed that Christianity is the true religion and the Catholic Church is the one, true Church. Rather, reoice in this. 3) Learn to preach and celebrate the liturgy in a manner worthy of the Church of Christ. (To this end, you would be well advised to read the rubrics of the 1962 Roman Missal, or an earlier version.) 4) be faithful to your promise to pray the Divine Office, remembering those who do not pray. 5) Remember that you are an alter Christus. Christ wasn’t a scruff. He was well turned out and had exquisite manners. Remember, a scruffy appearance or the manners of a navvie might just turn away a vocation. 6) Never become inebriated. Sobriety is the first defende against the Devil.
Laity: 1) Pray for bishops and priests unceasingly. 2) Try to help them in their ministry, not by aping them in a clerical fashion, but by assisting them as the good women of the Gospel assisted Our Lord. 3) do not gossip about bishops or priests. 4) Try to be informed as possible about you faith. 5) Read Sacred Scripture daily and study the Catechism. 6) develop a healthy prayer life.
All: 1) pray the Rosary every day. 2) Nurture a deep devotion to Our Lady and St Joseph. 3) Pray the Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel daily. 4) Invoke the help of the sainsts; 5) become friends of the Holy Souls of Prgatory. St. Theresa of Avila said that she always obtained the favours she asked of God through the intercession of the Holy Souls of Purgatory.
Prognosticum
I agree with ALMOST everything you say except your nasty remark about the navvie.
I worked with many “navvies” on building sites and almost to a man they we’re the salt of the earth. In fact Ireland could be doing with a few thousand of them right now?
They didn’t dress up since it isn’t all that easy to dig tunnels with a dinner suit on but that didn’t degrade them (us) in any way.
I know you mean well, understand that, but your statement reminds me of the time my daughter brought a (Veritas) book back from school and there was a one page illustration showing men digging a hole in the road. The caption below was to warn children to beware of men in dirty raincoats, or words to that effect.
In hindsight, it seems to me that the ones to beware were the ones who wrote the book.
For the record, the conversations on building sites can actually be educational
and thoroughly enjoyable and if it wasn’t for the obvious dangers also very safe for children.
In fact, I would say a lot safer than the Veritas headquarters.
Otherwise, Prognasticum, well said.
Sorry Ed if I have strayed a little.
That’s all excellent advice, Prognosticum, but it is all good Catholic advice and finds an echo only in Catholic hearts. Those to whom you would speak are indeed in thrall – to post-Vatican II modernism, and so to the Devil – that is carrying the Church to the very brink of destruction. This Pope’s election was like a tidal wave in this process.
I was horrified by the Irish vote, but after the first shock had worn off I went back, via a Google search of ‘…who am I to judge?’, through the reports of many of the speeches he has made since the very day of his election about the ‘new direction’ in which he wanted to take the Church. The Irish bishops, the main body of Irish priests and the hapless religiously-illiterate laity are following him like lemmings, and in this light (or darkness), the Irish referendum result is not really surprising. The responsibility for it goes right back to where the buck stops. Our Lady of Good Success, pray for us. Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.
The next thing we can expect will be the re-writing of the Wedding Vows. After all, how can a same-sex ‘couple’ pledge to ‘honour each other as MAN and WIFE for the rest of their lives’ or to ‘accept children lovingly from God’??
Everything will now be turned upside down, to pander after a tiny minority of the population. And to hell with the rest of us!
Pat, it’s easy, draw lots to see who gets to wear the wedding dress.
And with regard to the children issue, well that can be overcome with the ‘aid’ of IVF and much restructuring of one (or perhaps both) of the males!
The NHS will be happy to oblige, politicians will ensure plenty of funding is available for this at the expense of palliative care for the terminally-ill.
Still, we mustn’t grumble…..
Christina and Pat McKay,
For some reason that I cannot work out, your posts went into moderation. I can only apologise for the delay in releasing them. This has already happened today to someone else, so it is really puzzling. I’m keeping my email alert on, so that I can release them as soon as possible if it happens again.
Pat, I know that you sometimes have an avatar and sometimes not, so if you use a different email address from when you organised your avatar, the mystery man avatar will show. Also, if you use a new email address you will go into moderation as a first time user. Best to stick to the same log in details (preferably with the avatar! Makes it easier to find your posts and prettier to look at that the grey mystery image!)
The Archbishop of Dublin seems to be on the ball. He is saying The Church must re-double its efforts, and reach out to this new generation and educate them. Who could disagree with that.
The Church is hurting because of past hurts it has caused, and not because of a leadership formed by The Council, and led by The Successor of St Peter.
Er… what about “the leadership formed by the Council of Trent” and the other past Councils of the Church and the Successor Of St Peter who led THOSE Councils – which unlike Vatican II issued binding, dogmatic teaching?
The Referendum was lost because The Church lacked credibility because of abuse largely committed by people born, formed, and ordained, or professed, before The Council, They either committed the abuse or covered it up.
The New Evangelisation and a renewed Church are the answer.
Irish Eyes,
Time will show you eventually how wrong you are to claim that “The New Evangelisation and a renewed Church are the answer.”
The Referendum was lost because the Church that Christ founded has been corrupted by people who were led astray by the outcomes of the Second Vatican Council. The Catholic faith has not been taught in schools for more than a generation. The parents of today’s children were not taught to love the Blessed Virgin Mary, nor what a precious gift the faith is, and consequently they are in no position to teach it to their own children, nor they in turn to their children.
God’s grace is not present in the post-Vatican II Irish population and as a result, insults like this decision get through unchallenged – even by those shepherds whose very vocation it should be to defend the faith.
No, Irish Eyes. The answer is to seek out those centres of Tradition where the faith is still taught and practised, and to join in the prayers for the Consecration of Russia. Only then will the world come to its senses.
Irish Eyes
Why does the Church always have to take the blame for the child abuse? When are some of the parents going to take responsibility?
If the Irish were so sophisticated after Vatican 2 why did the majority of them not notice something fishy was going on?
Surely the children involved must have shown the same symptoms as a bullied child. How did abusers get access to children so easily?
And how did young men still allow themselves to be abused by elderly and often frail members of the clergy for years after it began? Some of them must have went voluntarily. I don’t think they were actually dragged out of their homes.
Do the people who voted yes last week not realise that they were making it a lot simpler for child abusers to get acces to children through adoption now? A lot of abusers may have been caught but there must be plenty more from where they came from that still haven’t started yet
At least the yes vote gives them another choice. Instead of entering the priesthood they can ” marry” and have as many children as they
wish. Instead of going looking now it will all be legal and above board and the victims delivered like a parcel to their own home.
Surely we’ll hear no more about the Irish child scandals after Friday’s
result since it has watered the offence down to nothing more serious than spitting in the street.
It is odd you do not know that in every land, and every faith, the issue of child abuse has gone unnoticed.
Even now parents cannot know if their child is being bullied, abused, or is, for example, anorexic.
To equate homosexuality with child abuse, and I am not taking a pro-gay stance, means you are ignoring the fact that most abuse takes place in overtly heterosexual homes, undertaken by overtly heterosexual men, or in schools, and clubs, and uniformed organisation. It is exactly such ignorance, on your part, that played into the claims for a call for equality, and tolerance. It is also means that society, and more especially people like you, will ignore the places where abuse actually takes place, and by whom.
It is the same false claim for equality, and human rights, that have led to calls for female ordination, and other such nonsensical niceties, but whilst ever you beat false claimants with sticks irrationally, and illogically, wielded you do their work for them..
Frankier
Can I add, that if ever you have had to listen directly to adult survivors of any abuse you will know the claim they must of enjoyed it, or wanted it, because they didn’t stop it you would hang your head in shame, and weep when you see their physical scars, through self harm, or hear of the psychological trauma, or learn of their ongoing addictions to drugs and alcohol, as they tried to “self medicate”.
Irish Eyes,
Did you know that there was more abuse of children in State run institutions than in any of the Church institutions?
I wonder why that’s never raised in the media?
I am always puzzled when a Catholic (I presume you are a Catholic) keeps raising the child abuse scandals in Ireland when, awful as they were, absolutely shameful, they were a small minority.
I am raising the issue solely because every sensible observer/commentator says that is the issue they has most scarred, or damaged, the reputation of The Church, and its claim to be a moral authority.
It featured in practically every news report about The Church in the lead up to The Referendum, and every one after.
\if you read my other posts you will read such observations as “most abuse takes place in overtly heterosexual homes, undertaken by overtly heterosexual men, or in schools, and clubs, and uniformed organisation” and “in every land, and every faith, the issue of child abuse has gone unnoticed”.
Just saying!
Irish
I don’t deny there are many sad cases who would have had no way of stopping it but there was a programme
on TV about the subject where a young man asked his aunt who was looking after him not to let him go with the priest.
When the priest arrived he eventually asked the lady if he could take X to show him his new organ. The aunt immediately agreed.
If I remember correctly that same priest was eventually jailed. The aunt should have suffered the same fate.
Either the child di not explicitly explain the problem, or the aunt did not believe him.
The lack of belief of children can be seen in the cases of Saville, Rochdale, Rotherham etc. It does not speak to the culpability of any child.
Irish
Surely it should have been enough for the child, as you call him, although he wasn’t exactly a child, to tell the aunt that he didn’t want to go with priest.
Even if the priest was going to feed him with sweets he didn’t want to go and that should have been good enough.
Anyway, the priest already had a reputation.
As you are commenting on a report/programme I have not seen I can’t give a definitive reply. However, the fact the Aunt had the final word suggests he was still a minor, and the Aunt presumably thought she knew best, and was perhaps glad not to have to child mind him for a while.
In a typical Parish where a priest has been found guilty of abuse half the parishioners will want to lynch him and the other half will still believe he is falsely accused.
The “child” was surely speaking in a context in which such cries were not heard, and if they were heard not always believed.
With all due respect Irish but you are proving me correct, by your statements, that a lot of the Irish are to blame themselves for the abuse of their children.
Whether a child was a minor or not, the boy was actually about 15, surely his wishes should have been granted. Even if the aunt was one of the 50% who didn`t believe the stories about the priest, the fact that he was
so desperate to take the boy “to show him his organ”, whatever that meant, should have made the aunt suspicious.
So, by your own admission, the fact that half the folk believed and the other half didn`t means at least half of the families were party to their own child`s abuse.
Anyway, I don`t wish to comment further.
With you, it is pointless.
Irish Eyes,
What do you mean by “overtly heterosexual homes”?
There are more people cohabiting and in more than one relationship, so when you study the cases, the abuse is very seldom done by a natural parent. There are some cases but hardly any. Most abuses are carried out by a step parent or boyfriend of the child’s mother.
The difference between abuse done by ~”straight” people and homosexuals is because the homos tend to repeat abuse the same child.
The biological parent is usually living with a person of the opposite sex who abuses their children, or , of course, it is the birth parent who has committed the abuse on their own child.
As for your second claim. there is no evidence for that, and you should distinguish between a paedophile, who may be gay or straight, and an heterosexual who , has says with an adult of the same sex.
Likewise, concern about adoption by Gay people has never been argued on the basis of a sexual risk to the child, but because marriage is understood to be between a man and a woman. open to children and that the child should benefit from the complementary roles of the parents. That is why interviews with “No” campaigners who spoke of possible child abuse played directly into the hands of “Yes” campaigners. Or as I put it elsewhere “whilst ever you beat false claimants with sticks irrationally, and illogically, wielded you do their work for them”.
Irish
In case you haven’t noticed, a homosexual act on a young boy can only be carried out by a homosexual.
I will repeat again, I can’t understand how boys of around 14 or 15 kept getting molested after years of abuse and I still feel at least some of the parents, out of thousands if we are to believe all the stories, should have noticed. Not only that, most young adults are fitter and stronger than elderly men,
so it wouldn’t have been too difficult to fend them off, especially with a pair of winkle pickers.
There’s a vast difference between a child with anorexia and one being molested. It is more difficult to spot something natural that one is born with than a sudden frightening thing like molestation. If a dog gave a child a bite that child would never go back near the dog.
I went onto the altar when I was about 9 years of age, if a priest had touched me then I would never have went back near him and would have told my parents why.
Anyway, after Friday, the Irish can’t complain any more about abuse. They have given the go-ahead for more of the same and that includes yourself if you voted yes.
You say that in every land and every faith it has gone unnoticed. That reminds me of the Austrian women whose husband built a bunker under his house, kept his daughter prisoner in it, fathered a few children by her and his wife never noticed.
She must have been a TV addict, maybe so are the Irish.
People caught up in an abusive relationship, of any kind, often cannot walk away because their emotions are so conflicted and confused. Many women end up dead for the same reason.
If adult women, with years of knowledge and experience, can’t walk away why would a child? Likewise if you don’t fully understand something and/or you do not know its is not the norm why would you walk away?
You really do need to listen to victims.
Further, may I once again you need to learn the distinguish between homosexuality, between consenting adults, and the abuse of children which can be an action of male and females, who most often are heterosexual.
To repeat, to hear No campaigners equate homosexuality with child abuse was a gift to the Yes campaign, and fitted in with the notion the No Campaigners were irrational, ignorant, intolerant bigots.
Again I would counsel you not to repeat your nonsense to victims of abuse.
Irish eyes,
(1) What credible evidence do you have to substantiate your claim regarding the identity of those who committed the bulk of abuse in Church institutions? (For what its worth, I am sure there have always been some bad eggs in the priesthood and religious.)
(2) Do you not see that it has been the “renewal” of Vatican II which has led Ireland precisely to the place she finds herself today? ++Martin said it himself, the majority of Yes voters are people who have been through ~13 years of so-called Catholic schooling?
It is unavoidable to accept that the direction taken in the wake if Vatican II has been generally catastrophic for the Church. By any measure or statistic you would care to mention, this is the reality.
It is not so much a “renewal” the Church needs – we already have all the tools and knowledge necessary at our disposal – than it is the clergy, in particular Bishops, “getting the finger out” to use a well-known phrase.
Reagrding what ++Martin said about yes voters and Catholic schools; I also went through 13 years of Catholic school (in Scotland) and the only worthwhile fruit of this was being able to say a Hail Mary, an Our Father and being able to describe the nativity story. We could have covered that in a single afternoon – it is criminal how the Church wastes its educational privileges.
Ironically one of the main activities I remember from RE in secondary school was writing a mock letter to an imaginary ‘gay’ friend, to tell them it was Ok to be ‘gay’ and that you would always be their friend. Catholic doctine was not mentioned at all in relation to this exercise, or indeed ever. And now the Bishops shake their heads and claim to be surprised and baffled as to the quagmire they have led the faithful into?
Many modern Bishops are incompetents, if not actual saboteurs.
Read what reports and statistics are published throughout the British Isles, and indeed the world.
That sounds like evasion to me; can you not link to one?
Irish ayes (rather than naws)
The only problem is that this new generation are mostly atheists or, at the very best, three-visits-in-a-lifetime Catholics.
Why should practising Catholics who are willing to abide by the rules of not only the Church but of God Himself have to sit back and watch this so called “new generation” get whatever they want?
As for this new generation lark: every single day brings a new generation, so do the regulations have to change daily?
My answer to anyone, including yourself, is that if they are not happy with the rules then go onto the Internet and pick any one of the thousands of religions that have conditions that suit them but please don’t join the masons or the orange order. They would soon give them short shrift if they shoved their noses into their affairs.
Tell the Archbishop of Dublin the next time you see him that the ball he is on will soon be burst and lying on the slates. He never bothered to educate the present generation so I wish him well with the new one.
Better tell him to start tomorrow before it gets too late.
If the Archbishop is so on the ball, why did he not step out to educate his flock before they went in to vote? Is he on record saying to vote YES would be morally unacceptable (heaven forbid he use the word ‘sin’)?
I think the way the Irish voted reflects badly on the bishops who failed abysmally in their duty to teach and guide those entrusted to them. Whether they were born before, during or after the infamous Council hardly matters because they failed to do their duty before God. No Catholic should have voted YES. That they did says a lot about the Irish bishops and this Successor of St. Peter who set the example of sitting on the fence and refusing to teach. Some charity.
Any one who knows Ireland, will know that Ireland has followed every trend coming out of The USA for decades. Most US States have “legalised” Gay “Marriage”, and many, likewise, Cannabis. (Watch this space.)
However, an added problem has been failings in the historical Church led, and served, by people born, and formed, and mostly ordained, before The Council.
If The Church had played hard ball the Yes vote would be higher!
I think I heard one “expert” say abortion is the next item on the agenda.
A renewed Church must seek to educate the masses, and evangelise, and acting with humility.
Irish
So the Church played softball to lower the yes vote from 85% to 62%.
Well done to them. At least they succeeded.
No, The Church recognised that to walk anything other than humbly would be counter productive, and make things even worse.
The majority of votes lost can be laid at the feet of those who equated homosexuality with child abuse, and do not argue a case rationally based on sound principles, about what constitutes marriage.
Irish
You talk of the majority of votes lost. Lost to who?
Surely those who equated homosexuality with child abuse voted no and if so that should have meant votes lost to those in favour of same sex “marriage”. So how did they win?
It is precisely because some “No” voters equated homosexuality with child abuse, something of which the Church was considered, by some, to be guilty of, others voted yes with an easy conscience.
The only way to defend marriage is to consistently argue its purpose, ordained by God: a lifelong union between one man and one woman, and always open to children. Any other line, and accusation, was counterproductive.
It was a mistake to link the issue of children with a vote on Gay “marriage”, Regardless of any vote on gay “marriage” gay people were already being given to right to foster, and adopt children. .Likewise to argue that children benefit from stable homes, which flow from marriage, and to be raised leaning from, the God given, complementary nature, of man and woman is a more positive approach that falsely impugning child abuse is an homosexual activity.
The best way to foster the false claims of a perceived minority is to give them the appearance of being more roundly marginalised, vilified, and attacked.
Some “No” Campaigners muddied the waters of a campaign that should have resulted in a completely different result.
Oh, and lets not forget that the John Jay report (and others) highlighted that the abuse in Church institutions was overwhelmingly (>80%) homosexual in nature.
votes lost can be laid at the feet of those who equated homosexuality with child abuse
It would be wrong to suggest that every person with homosexual inclinations is a threat to children, but one cannot overlook the significant and long-standing evidence linking homosexuality and pederasty / paedophilia.
To give some brief examples:
– paedophile groups were openly part of the UK “gay rights” movement until the 1980s (when the movement decided to sanitise its image). The Guardian newspaper sympathetically covered pro-paedophilia speeches at “gay rights” conferences in the 1970s. Google “Paedophile Action for LIberation” (PAL) and “Paedophile Information Exchange” (PIE). These were the groups whioch formed part of the UK “gay rights” movement. Most of their members went on to be arrested, but not before they mingled with and influenced “gay rights” campaigners.
– UK “gay rights” doyen Peter Tatchell has often spoken and written sympathetically about paedohilia / pederasty. He believes something called “intergenerational sex” exists and that it is beneficial and even desirable to children. Tatchell is against the very concept of a sexual age of consent existing in law at all.
– the “gay rights” movement has continually sought to lower and/or abolish to sexual age of conset.
– The existence of the North American organisation “NAMBLA” (North American Man Boy Love Association) where homosexual men campaign for their supposed right to (what they call) sex with boys.
To overlook this evidence is very short sighted, if it doesnt constitute actual denial.
Take the blindfold off your Irish eyes and read the reply Athanasius made to you at 8.13pm on 23rd and the other replies which, with ample evidence, demolished your incredibly mistaken view that pre-Vat.II priests were responsible for the child abuse horror. Instead of engaging honestly in this conversation, you are another troll, constantly hopping about like a demented grasshopper with one non-sequitur after another. Precisely what kind of education of the masses do you think the ‘renewed Church’ should give? Should it be based on the Commandments of God, the clear teaching of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Gospels and 2000 years of Catholic tradition? Or should it wipe that slate clean and be based on the Modernist heresy, embraced by popes and prelates since Vat.II, which has emptied the churches and led directly to such scandals as this Irish referendum vote? When they preach God’s mercy without His justice, why should Catholics not wallow in sin like everyone else?
Christina,
Well said. I had concerns about Irish Eyes from the start and meant to keep a close eye on his posts for fear he is the reincarnation of another troll (who appears here under various usernames) who never takes account of the evidence provided and goes on and on, around in circles.
Hence, when the posts from various bloggers kept going into moderation, I began to wonder if I’d followed my gut instinct to put him straight into moderation and others were going into the moderation box due to using his username. I’ve just checked again, however, and no, I didn’t do that. So the mystery of the moderated posts continues…
However, I’m going to check later and if I find that Irish Eyes is continuing his circular discussion (which leads nowhere) I WILL place his username into moderation. Hence, avoid using it, or you will all end up there! Well, since most of you are going there anyway, I don’t suppose it’ll matter too much!
So, don’t test my patience, IE. Just don’t.
The majority of my posts have been about why I think The Church had to be seen to be humble, and why “No” campaigners scored an own goal it making the referendum about child abuse and homosexuality rather than a wholehearted explanation and exploration of what marriage is.
The Referendum was not about sex, or child abuse, but Marriage. Every statement by the No campaigners should have been on topic.
Some “NO” campaigners by going on about child abuse, and gay sex, gave a gift to the Yes campaign as they fuelled the narrative that The Church is bigoted and intolerant and oppressive. The Referendum was not about sex, but marriage. Some heterosexual people cannot have children, even if they are married, and many abuse children.
The Church is not anti-gay. It says simply the only moral/proper sexual activity is sexual intercourse within marriage, open to children.
Irish Eyes,
Not having seen any of the NO campaign material, I have to take your word for it that their approach was misguided.
However, I think it’s rather simplistic to say that they should have stuck with arguing that marriage is as you describe it (correctly) in your closing paragraph because that definition of marriage is precisely what was being challenged. I presume that the NO campaigners were trying to find an angle which might give the voters good reason to think twice. If they included mention of homosexuality and child abuse and the link thereof, on their material, they must have cited cold facts (otherwise they’d have suffered the same fate as the bakery couple – Asher – and ended up in court.) And it is impossible to argue with cold facts. I’m told, though, that the NO posters were torn down and that the campaign was not given anything like the publicity of the YES vote, so perhaps a lot of people missed the facts being provided by the NO campaign.
In any case, the real reason why the YES campaign won, is that the Faith has been lost in Ireland and when the Faith goes, the morals quickly follow. Where there is no fear of God, anything goes.
The trouble with Archbishop Martin’s response to the result, is that while he recognises the failure of Catholic education in that those young people voting for same-sex “marriage” had been through 12 years of Catholic schooling, he says nothing about “renewing” the schools, that is, re-educating the teachers and insisting on fully believing staff passing on the traditional Catholic faith and explaining the nature and purpose of the natural – God-given – moral law. God has been replaced by democratic vote, and the youngsters don’t even know it.
Until the Archbishop shows signs of grasping that fact, and not, as seems to be the case, continuing down the “we must conform the Church to the wishes and wiles of youth and other worldly people” then Ireland will continue apace as a secular humanist, entirely apostate nation.
N O T I C E . . .
Unfortunately, I have to be away from my computer a lot today, so please be aware that, if as happened yesterday, posts went into moderation for no apparent reason, they’ll have to wait there until I see them, probably later this evening. So far today all posts are going straight onto the blog so perhaps the problem has righted itself. If only we could say the same for the crisis in the Church!
In every country of the world the majority of cases of child abuse within The Church are historical, and were undertaken by people mostly ordained before The Council.
Irish Eyes,
If you keep repeating falsehoods which have already been corrected – in this case by Athanasius when you first appeared on our blog – then your posts will be moderated and all such repetitions deleted. Even Archbishop Martin of Dublin admitted in an interview on Newsnight on publication of one of the reports into child abuse in Ireland, when pressed by Jeremy Paxman to give a timeline for this abuse by priests (has it always happened? When did it begin? Was it the twenties, thirties, forties…?) snapped “the sixties.”
So, stop flogging a dead horse. There may have been some cases prior to Vatican II and some men who were ordained prior to Vatican II but remember, it was the men who were ordained prior to Vatican II who ditched the Mass that the saints and martyrs loved and gave their lives for, some by blood, and thus contributed to the massive withdrawal of grace from the Church that we are witnessing today.
I will check all of your posts on my return this evening and if you have repeated the above entirely misleading information, then you will find yourself looking for another platform for your errors. You will not find a welcome here.
If it began in the sixties, why are most of the alleged abusers dead, or in the 70”s, 80’s, or 90’s when imprisoned?
A comment in a Paxman interview is not evidence. Read the reports!
Look at the statistics published in the British Isles and elsewhere.
Of two of the most prominent cases in Ireland, Ledwith (ordained in 1967) and Smyth (became a religious in 1945).
My argument is not that all abuse happened before The Council, but that it was a significant problem before The Council.
It is because of the abuse issue The Church lacks, currently, credibility on some issues.
Irish Eyes,
I simply do not have the time to trawl looking for the Murphy Report – I took a few minutes to do so just now (to refresh my memory – already read it, and the Ryan Report on publication) but the actual Commission page was useless – every link was broken. All I could find was this press release, ahead of publication of Murphy…
Dublin Archdiocese Commission of Investigation
21 Fitzwilliam Square
Dublin 2
Press Release
Dublin Commission welcomes publication of its report
The Dublin Archdiocese Commission of Investigation welcomes the imminent publication of its report into the handling of clerical child sexual abuse in the Archdiocese of Dublin over the period 1975 to 2004.
The Commission started its work at the end of March 2006 and issued its report to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in July 2009.
The Commission regrets that, due to circumstances outside its control, it is not possible to have the full report published at this time. As is clear from the judgment of Mr Justice Gilligan issued on 19 November, decisions were made by the DPP after the report was delivered to the Minister and those decisions could not have been taken into account by the Commission in its report.
The Commission realises that a number of people will be disappointed to discover that, because of recent directions by the High Court, the parts of the report relating to them are not being published.
The Commission wishes to assure those people that such publication will eventually occur as this is a requirement of the legislation governing all Commissions of Investigation. The Commission recognises that the complainants concerned are likely to suffer the greatest disappointment. However, it should be noted that there are also people in Church and State authorities about whose actions a full picture is not available because of the present exclusions.
For three and a half years the Commission has been in possession of extremely sensitive information which it has guarded carefully. It is a cause of great regret to the Commission, therefore, that the report, or parts of it, were leaked to a newspaper last weekend. The Commission considers that those responsible for the leak clearly took no account of the distress that its partial publication could cause to the complainants and to those whose actions are subjected to scrutiny in the report. END.
Now, the Murphy Report did record some cases from the 40’s, but its remit – as you can see above – was limited to 1975 – 2004.
If you can post link(s) proving differently, go ahead, although the child abuse scandal is not, in fact, the subject of this thread.
I would agree with you that the NO campaign made a mistake by focusing on child abuse – I have never heard that from anyone else, but take your word for it, which is why I’ve allowed these comments to stand. We’re almost at the end of May now and all the month’s threads will be closing anyway, but I would be delighted if we could discuss the apostasy which is at the root of the shocking YES voting priests and negligent bishops who should NOT have allowed themselves to be cowed into silence because of the child abuse scandal.
Back to the NO campaign for a second – the problem seems to be the very same problem prevalent in the pro-life movement – everyone’s terrified to mention God. God, and His Law, His natural moral law, His design for human beings, is THE reason why two men and two women must not engage in unnatural sexual activity. Careful planning of their campaign, with that key message at its centre, really should have been their strategy. Things just might have taken off and turned out differently – but if God sees that we don’t really need Him, then He tends to leave us to our own devices. Hence the failure of the pro-life movement to really make a meaningful difference in terms of overturning the abortion law, and the sorry result in Ireland last weekend, in the same-sex “marriage” referendum.
As for that Jeremy Paxman Newsnight interview – you’d have to ask Archbishop Martin why he snapped “60’s” at Jeremy Paxman when he listed the decades from 1920, I have no idea. But that is what he said. I saw the interview with my own eyes, and I only wish that I’d recorded it. I was taken by surprise, not knowing that he was scheduled to appear on the show.
Anyway, we can certainly agree that the abusers, whenever they were born, brought great shame on Christ’s Church. I notice you mention “Fr” Brendan Smyth – if I’d time I would try to dig out a YouTube video – he’s bound to be up there, somewhere, because when I saw him on the news, in camera close-up, those were two of the most evil eyes I have ever seen in my entire life. Utter evil as he (appeared to attempt to) kick the camera-man or reporter or whoever was out of camera shot. I’m not saying he was evil – obviously, he did evil things but we’re prohibited from judging the disposition of any soul, even of those we might regard as obviously evil. But the look coming out of those eyes was, in fact, evil. I couldn’t help thinking: “a soul possessed”, although, I repeat, I cannot possibly know and mustn’t judge.
Editor, I’m inserting this with apologies, as you have now dealt with the person I’m referring to. I started to make my comment this morning, but I was interrupted, and think that it may still be useful because of this person’s pertinacious refusal to accept correction on the subject of clerical sexual abuse. Said person wrote above:-
The majority of my posts have been about why I think The Church had to be seen to be humble, and why “No” campaigners scored an own goal it making the referendum about child abuse
This is demonstrably untrue. At about the time he made this false claim only 3 of his more recent posts had dealt with the campaign, whereas 13, including 1 – 8, had been entirely about ‘priestly sexual abuse’ which is clearly his misinformed preoccupation.
Three times he told bloggers to ‘read the reports and statistics’ without citation, and he still did not provide one when the omission was pointed out.
Probably the most thorough report made into this subject is to be found here:-
http://www.uk.sagepub.com/bartol3e/study/articles/Terry.pdf
It does not make for pleasant reading, but it gives the lie to the Vat.II-brainwashed, modernist, slanderous rubbish that has been regurgitated in this thread.
In this far-reaching study, undertaken in the USA, it emerged that of the 4% of priests who had allegations of abuse made against them, 57% had only 1 allegation made (which reduces the 4% to 2%) and the study states:-
Those with only one allegation of abuse were more likely than those with more allegations to have a female victim and have a victim in the 15 to 17 year old age range. There is no clear reason why this group of men stopped their abusive behaviour; reporting often happened many years after the abuse took place, and it appears that they were better able to ‘self-correct’.
So, a heterosexual priest is tempted, breaks his vow of celibacy, falls into mortal sin and ‘self-corrects’ after his fall – i.e. repents, and the grace of God was subsequently sufficient for him. It seems clear enough to me. Nevertheless he is included, together with ephebophiles and paedophiles etc., in the tally of abusers. I’m not making excuses for anyone, but statistics such as this lead one to a more balanced view of the abuse crisis in the Church than that reported endlessly in the media and seized on by modernist enemies and denigrators of the pre-conciliar Church.
The study also shows that, with there being an average of 11 years between ordination and a first abusive act, and with the abuse peaking in the 70s and 80s, it was NOT priests ordained in the years before Vat.II who formed the majority of abusers. And one further point, the study showed that the overwhelming majority of abusers were ephebophiles, and of the paedophiles the majority abused boys. Conclusions? .
Christina,
Thank you for that very detailed and helpful response.
As I said in an earlier post of mine, I’m always puzzled when a Catholic wishes to focus on the child abuse cases and take the worst view, ignoring the facts.
Again, thank you for your thoroughly academic post, which is factual and measured.
The report was about priests in The USA, and not Ireland, or worldwide. It was limited to a specific period, and, of course, the further back we go evidence will be scant. It notes too the priest that sparked a Jphn Geoghan, and he was ordained in 1962. Smyth, in Ireland, began in 1945.
Irish Eyes,
You have ignored my instruction to stick to the topic, which is NOT child abuse. I’ve explained why I have permitted the posts on this topic so far, but you’ve been answered and ignored the facts. You focus on Christina’s report to discount it, and ignore the press released published by the Murphy Commission in which they record the fact that, contrary to what you say, the period under review in the Murphy Report was 1975-2004 – i.e. NOT prior to Vatican II. You just won’t put on your listening ears.
In any event, your posts are now going to moderation and no more posts on this subject will be released. I see that Athanasius has made the key point that it is no excuse to vote for the evil of same-sex “marriage” on the grounds that priests, however few, however many, abused children. That’s apples and oranges.
So, let that matter drop and focus on the apostasy in Ireland which has seen entire generations since Vatican II, ignorant of the divine origins, nature and purpose of the Catholic Church. THAT is the topic here. Only posts from you which focus on that topic, will be released. You’ve had plenty of warning, so please do not put my resolve to the test.
Now I’ll get emails from the Brainless Bunch telling me I’m a bad woman for censoring Irish Eyes, that I don’t let people express their views if they “disagree” with me. Gimme strength!
Editor
It is illogical, and a tad unjust, to say a commentator cannot reply to replies addressed to them.
Nowhere, have I said there can be a justification for the voting outcome. Indeed the outcome saddens and offends me. By every measure it is wrong.
However if the Church, because of her own actions, or rather the actions of a minority, handled badly, ceases to be an authentic voice then people may be not hear the right message. That is not exactly, a new insight, or rocket science.
I lived in hope, that the NO camp would win by at least a small margin.
Editor: good try but you are not fooling anyone here. The replies to which YOU wish to reply, are the replies correcting your errors. However, your replies NEVER acknowledge a fact, just as even in this latest post you do not acknowledge that, contrary to what you insisted, the Murphy Report focused on the years 1975-2004. Anyway, that’s now water under that famous bridge in Dublin. Say nothing more on that topic, or your posts will not be released. Your remark about maybe the Church in Ireland not being the authentic voice is a bit puzzling – the Church is the authentic voice of Christ, so if the Bishops had faithfully expounded Catholic teaching/moral norms, they could not be criticised and only an idiot thinks that an institution loses moral authority or its right to speak in an area of its “expertise” because of the sins or crimes of some of its members. Where would that leave the City of London? Clowns. I mean, the idiots who think that are clowns, not (necessarily) the geniuses in the City of London…
Now, you have set out your position clearly above, so that is why I am releasing this post, drawing a line under the previous circular arguments about child abuse, and I will release all of your posts which deal with the topic of apostasy in Ireland, which is THE reason for the child abuse, and THE reason for the failure of Catholic education in pulpit and school, and THE reason for the self-evident loss of Catholic faith of the bishops and many, if not most, priests.
Here’s a letter which appeared in the Irish Times, post-referendum, applauding the schools – a letter which underlines the failure of those with responsibility for Catholic education – ultimately the Bishops – to teach the truths of the Faith and moral truths, even adequately, never mind with conviction:
The breadth of the margin of victory for the Yes side in the same-sex marriage referendum will come as no surprise to the professional teaching community in Ireland. The majority of voters between the ages of 18 years and 30 years – and that is a sizeable proportion of the population – have been schooled in a system where the tenets of fairness and equality of access for all are recognised and guaranteed. Long gone are the days when anxiety and fear – fear of failure, fear of asking the wrong questions – fulfilled a role in the school curriculum. The modern Irish school system continues to play an important part in eradicating discrimination and in promoting democratically chosen collective goals. – COLIN QUIGLEY,
See? Not a mention of child abuse or any other scandal. Just a statement of apostasy. So, stick to the topic, Irish Eyes, which is NOT child abuse. You’ve made your point, now move on, please and thank you. I will not be responding in this way to future posts – they will either be released because they are on topic, or deleted if more of the same old same old. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say, so don’t complain if you waste time writing comments that are not published here.
Editor
In TV Interviews etc. “No Campaigners, and supporters. Emphasised safeguarding children, and NOT what Marriage is.
Likewise, a prominent No Campaigner went on to, after the result was announced, the campaign will continue on the issue of children.
If the argument is based on child abuse, when gay people are not seen to be causing that, and paedophilia is an entirely different problem, NO Campaigners are shooting themselves in the foot, whilst also managing to score an own goal.
I don’t think The Archbishop was stalking about Catholic Education, as such, but a New Evangelisation. Just as with extremism, of other kinds, the messages that are running contrary to that of The Church are coming from peers, and online, and other cultures. (Most of what Ireland is suffering has been imported from The USA!)
Irish Eyes,
I’ve answered the first part of your post above, re. the NO campaign approach.
You wrote:
“I don’t think The Archbishop was talking about Catholic Education, as such, but a New Evangelisation.”
Of COURSE he was talking about Catholic education – the schools have manifestly failed if 62% of the population can vote for two men to be allowed to “marry” each other and two women to “marry” each other, and a “transgender” person (who looked and sounded ridiculous) be invited to speak for the YES campaign live on TV as the results unfolded.
The Archbishop clearly knows that his schools have failed; and anyway, you can’t have a “new evangelisation” until you have an “old” one first.
These people have never been taught the Faith. They – manifestly – can’t tell the difference between a dogma and a dog’s dinner. God help them. And God help those dreadful, negligent through to apostate Bishops, at their Judgment. God HELP them.
Irish Eyes,
Do not attempt to justify the apostasy of so many Irish Catholics (yes voters) on the basis that they have been scandalised by clerical sexual abuse. That’s only a lame excuse for bad Catholics to join forces with the enemies of the Church, but it will hold no water with God.
Any Irish Catholic who voted for “gay marriage” is now in a state of mortal sin, regardless of whether or not the spineless Irish episcopate declares so formally. The Commandments of God are clear, the moral teaching of the Church is clear and irreformable and the laws of nature are clear. No amount of phoney argument can change these divinely revealed truths.
On the issue of mortal sin, I think you are wrong.
On the issue of the referendum, it is a tragic result.
The Hierarchy, were not spineless but pragmatic, and they realised a different approach would be even more counter-productive.
I know many liturgical conservative, and outwardly orthodox, who are engaged in acts of fornication, and often drug taking etc.
If they voted against God’s law in the full knowledge and with full consent of their will, then that has to be a mortal sin. I agree with Athanasius on that.
Your statement about the Hierarchy is mind-boggling. I couldn’t help wondering what the martyrs must be thinking, and why did they not realise that they should have been “pragmatic”
I can’t see the point of your last sentence – what has that got to do with anything, are you saying you are surprised that “liturgically conservative and outwardly orthodox” Catholics are sinners sin, like everyone else – what is the connection between that sentence and priests and bishops voting for same-sex “marriage”? Sorry if I’m being slow on the uptake but I don’t see the point you are trying to make.
Madame Editor,
The results of the Irish Referendum on same-sex marriage are now out, with 62% in favour.
And what does Archbishop Diarmuid Martin have to say on the subject?
“We (the Church) have to stop and have a reality check, not move into denial of the realities.”
That sounds to me awfully like throwing in the towel. Is he really saying that the Church must accept the waywardness of the world rather than fight for what God wills? If that is the case, can we next expect him to be questioning the need for the Church at all?
This seems very much like a re-run of the state of the world prior to Noah’s time, when God wiped the slate clean and started all over again. Is He again about to vent His wrath on us all, and, if so, is 2017 the year in which He will do it?
We were warned that there would be earthquakes (there have been two in Nepal, one in Japan and one in Kent – all within the space of a few weeks), and that we would be unable to tell the Seasons one from another (here we are late in May and the temperatures are still only in the mid-teens), and it is clear that morality no longer seems to count for anything.
Truly, mankind is in a mess and Divine Intervention is justified. In the meantime, we must all let our virtue shine as brightly as we can in order to give others the courage to join us.
O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.
Talk about a can of worms…..
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marriage/effects_of_ssm_2012/SSM_Mass_2012.pdf
As Leprechaun mentioned up above, God and nature are crying out for revenge (or words to that effect). Witness:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-32872846
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-32877631
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32877215
Ed, I’m on the naughty seat in moderation again.
Ed: no, that’s not the case (needless to say!) Just about everyone is going into moderation (except I notice the jammy Crofterlady) and I’m not sure why. I can’t investigate it via WordPress Support until late tomorrow or Wednesday, so I’m afraid you’re just all going to have to be patient until I can release the posts. Tomorrow will be difficult because I’ll be away from my computer most of the day, so I can only apologise and promise to get it looked into asap.
They wouldn’t DARE put ME in moderation!!
Got it in one!
The irish have lost the plot.
I am confident there is nothing irish youth would not vote for, just as long as it had been on MTV and some trendy celebrities had sent tweets about it. The clincher, of course, would be if the Church had spoken against it.
I am going to write to Pope Francis to see if he has still got that red clown nose he proudly posed for a picture with. If he does, he should sent it to the incompetents currently running the church in ireland. They are more worthy of it than he, at least for now.
I always thought the term “Primate of all Ireland” referred to the most prominent Bishop, but after this farce which shows just how competent Irish Bishops are, I think its far more appropriate used in the sense that primate = some kind of monkey.
(But who are we Scots to talk? Pick any novus ordo parish in Scotland and conduct an anonymous poll about gay marriage and i would be surprised if the irish result was not duplicated time and again. I knew several Catholics in Scotland who refused to sign the anti-‘gay marriage’ petition because they had homosexual friends or colleagues).
The saddest thing to see in Ireland was the media coverage of a wild eyed, mentally ill man, dressed as a woman, shrieking with delight in a street in Dublin. People such as this need help, not encouragement.
Thinking back to the Easter Rebellion in Ireland, I wonder if the men and women would have been so prepared to go to their death in the GPO, if they knew Ireland would sink to these levels less than one century later.
The one consolation is the thought that some people might make their way to SSPX chapels as a result of this.
Gabriel Syme,
A classic post! Well said.
Only one thing: notwithstanding your friends who refused to sign (I presume you mean) the Scottish Government consultation on same-sex “marriage”, the fact is that well over 60% of the Scots voted against legalising same-sex “marriage” not once, but twice. The Government ignored that of course and went ahead anyway, but it’s interesting that the population here, in a Protestant country, had more of an instinctive moral sense that the “Catholics” across the water.
Gabriel
People, like the atheist McGillivan for example, keep quoting the Irish Constitution to try and convince everyone that the men in the GPO (and his Mayo granny) fought for this type of freedom. So I wonder if this would include the right for people to marry anything that moved.
I may be wrong but was the real issue not a vote to change the Constitution to legalise, rather than give outright permission, for sodomites to “marry”?
Crofterlady above…… and the implication, as advanced by the lying bbc, is that all these natural and cyclical weather events are due to Man Made Global Warming?
Which our current Pontiff is about to soon declare an article of faith – allegedly.
Yes, waterside, and here’s more of it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32877936
It’s a bit like what somebody said (? Hitler): if you say something often enough and loudly enough, people will believe it.
In the Church we are told about “the renewal” and the “new Springtime” and all that baloney when the evidence all around us screams that the opposite is true! And people believe it.
We are told that Russia is no longer a threat; the Berlin wall is down; the satellite countries such as Latvia have been freed etc. (Tell that to the Ukraine).
The Emperor’s new clothes springs to mind……………..
Fidelity always to the Deposit of faith,is only common sense.Irish eyes should of seen this,and they should have voted accordingly.
CROFTERLADY,
Yes I heard that on the biased BBC this morning.
I am not too sure if we are singing from the same hymn book, but just to nail my colours to the mast, I am a fully paid up member of the MMCAGW (man made catastrophic anthropogenic global warming) agnostic club.
Did you perchance also hear about the great NATO exercise inside the Artcic circle.
See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-26627368
A bit like a bunch of school kids playing with chemicals in the school lab when teacher just nipped out for a sanity infusion.
Yes, it’s at the bottom of the article linked above.
I often read things on the BBC website and when I try to show my husband some hours later, they’ve gone! Ominous.
Were it just a case of being ‘open-minded’ that would be bad enough. But there is a real evil here and a threat to hundreds of little children. Again were it just a case of being brought up by same sex couples and missing the love of a Father and Mother that would be bad enough. But we have the horrendous fact that in order to have their children many men are turning to surrugacy and a child will be brought up in an environment with two men and never knowing who her mother is. We have example after example coming forward of this. Last week in the Daily Mail we had another tale of a devoted man and man both having surrogated children at the same time and calling them twins. They also have two other surrogated children. What chance have these children of a normal life? And it is certain that they will join thousands of young people who seek out their natural mother when they grow up. Dear Bishop you are unworthy of your position. Then we have in Britain the rise of demand for recognition of three partner marriage. In America this is now becoming a way of life called Polyamory and there was a report recently in the Washington Post. It is now ‘normal’ for many children growing up there. And it is among these children you will find the greatest enemies of Gay Marriage. The Bishop of Derry is a fool and an idiot and I say this because I am angry and my anger is just.
Just back from a walk down a little quiet road that I often frequent. A beautiful evening, not a sign of man or beast. All that greeted me was the wild flowers lining both sides of the road, each trying to out do the other in beauty and splendour, yet all in perfect harmony,thereby giving glory to their Creator by fulfilling the role allotted to them. And them there was the singing of the birds. Never in all my life have I heard singing like it. A symphony of sounds, so different in scope and pitch but yet again in perfect harmony. Then a terrible thought struck me. It’s as if they knew the dastardly deed
that had been done, and were pouring their little hearts out to their Creator, to appease His anger.
It’s as if they were saying, “look we’re faithful, we,re singing like we never sang before, we,re praising You the only way we can, the way You Yourself ordained it. Even the flowers seemed to respond and I swear they had reached a little closer to heaven as I made my way back. A great sense of forlorn and unease overcame me. Ireland what have you done?. ‘
Haunted as I still am after watching the coverage of the crowd celebrating in the courtyard of Dublin castle (some of the footage was really quite disturbing and should surely have only been shown after the watershed,if at all) following the announcement of the same-sex marriage referendum result, one of the thoughts that struck me after seeing those scenes of rejoicing (and I use the word ‘rejoicing’ not in the sense of ‘Emmanuel shall come to thee’ but rather in the sense of when Thatcher exclaimed “Just rejoice” when those two bald men were all set to really start properly fighting for that South Atlantic Comb) was this: How hollow and fleeting their ‘victory’ will prove to be and that every last man,woman and I-don’t-know-what-I-am-but-if-today’s-a-Tuesday-I’m-leaning-towards-the-distaff-side of them will inevitably eventually echo the last words of Julian the Apostate -“Vicisti, Galilaee” (Thou hast conquered,O Galilaean).
Comment removed. Off topic.
Ireland is also the home of my ancestors and to whom I owe a great depth of gratitude for passing me on the faith, something the young Irish people will be denied.
Whilst there was a dumbing down of the faith as I was growing up, especially in my secondary Catholic school, run by nuns,I did not learn anything about the richness, doctrine and history of the faith, I had the early formative years in my primary school where the catechism was taught and we had mass and confession every Wednesday in the nearby school and processions with regular devotions – this was the “True Catholicism”
Jesus Christ tells us to “Watch & Pray”, so many of us do not know the faith, which is why we have this situation in Ireland and around the world, we can only fight for what we love and can only love what we know.
Even if the devil has won this battle, but God has won the war.
Our Lady Of Good Success Quito, Ecuador, approved by the church, which very few Catholic have heard about this apparition reminds us at the very moment “when the evil will appear triumphant and when the authority abuses my power.” This would “mark the arrival of my hour, when I, in a marvelous way, will dethrone the proud and accursed Satan, trampling him under my feet and fettering him in the infernal abyss.
Readers can find out all about Our Lady of Good Success’s prophecies on the link on this web-site.
Lets re-double our efforts, rosaries, devotions and await this great triumph!
God bless you all,
Anne
Looking forward from this disaster, we have hardly begun to realise the full implications for Ireland.
Schools. All schools.
Sex education/human relationships education will no doubt be loaded with a completely skewed position because of so called ‘equity’.
The liberals will demand that the curriculum equally balances the legal status of ‘marriage’ as is understood by the State.
Therefore children in Ireland will be learning in their text books about multiple choices for their lives with full equity shown to every possible combination.
Man-Woman
Man-Man
Woman-Woman
Imagine little Aoife coming home and asking Mammy and Daddy what lifestyle they will choose.
I wonder how many of those so called progressives will be swallowing their own vomit?
Unfortunately, the worm has turned to Australia and there seems to be a renewed push for this abomination, as a result of the Irish referendum, to be legalised as in some way equitable to Marriage between a man and woman as is the natural God ordained plan.
I have already told my daughter that my Grand-son only 1yr will have to be home-schooled as the potential loss of a child’s soul for all eternity outweighs everything.
God bless,
Anne
Anne,
I don’t know, obviously, in which part of the world you (and your daughter) live but if she is in the Scottish central belt, you could let her know that there are home-schooling Catholic families who would welcome her and help her. I’m sure that’s true world-wide – I just happen to live in the central belt and know some of the home-educators! It’s a pity that parents have to think seriously about doing this, but it’s a serious option these days.
It’s terrible that parents are faced with this problem. At one time you could take your child out of sex education and give certain instructions about what they were not to see or hear in classrooms but now you would risk being arrested for “homophobia” or under the Scottish system of Named Person, even have your children removed to save them from your “extremist views”. It’s a terrible time to be a parent.
Anne,
There are groups of homeschoolers all over the country, some Catholic, some Christian and some secular.
There is also a very good SSPX school in Hampshire, boarding and day. Today, I spoke to a East European family of 8 who are moving nearby so to as avail of the only (it seems) Catholic school left in the country. They are utterly appalled at both the schools and the Masses here. Herewith the link:
http://www.sspx.co.uk/page_school.htm
There are two very interesting pieces on the Irish referendum result currently published on the Rorate Caeli website.
The first is a short commentary on why the four sins that cry to Heaven for vengeance, may not be the most serious sins – click here to read that one and here to read a “post-mortem examination” of Ireland post-referendum.
Plenty of food for thought in both items. As the Archbishop of Dublin might say – reflect!
I see Andy Burnham has stated that the Catholic Church needs to be brought into the 21st century after the Irish referendum results.
I would have thought that he would have been more concerned about the British establishment being brought into the 20th century even if he wishes ever to be Prime Minister.
He’s firing at an easy / popular target (for the British media) in order to distract attention from the utter shambles the Labour party is in across the UK.
Maybe also trying to win support of the powerful homosexual lobby for a leadership bid, given his dinosaur trade-union backers are ever less popular in society and in the labour party.
He’s an idiot and it wont work.
Hes a practicing Catholic too
An Internet search shows that he is a practising Catholic, quelle surprise!
Gabriel
I think he’ll need a bit more practice before he gets the hang of it.
I AM surprised. The usual expression is a ’devout’ Catholic’ – as in that Fine Gael devout Catholic, interviewed on BBC news, who voted ‘yes’ because he loves his simpering sodomite son.
“The usual expression is a ’devout’ Catholic’ – as in that Fine Gael devout Catholic, interviewed on BBC news, who voted ‘yes’ because he loves his simpering sodomite son.”
LOL!
Ireland has been over-run by mini anti-Christs. already we’re see’ing a push for the liberalisation of abortion,euthanasia and just yesterday a call to out-law reasonable chastisement of children in the home.
I think that this country has placed itself under a curse, given that we have ignored Our Lords Divine warning “WHAT GOD HAS PUT TOGETHER LET NO MAN PUT ASUNDER”.
It maybe that Irelands apostasy was foretold at Knock. According to a well informed friend who has studied the story in detail over many years that one of the curious things about knock was that none of the visionaries actually stayed to the end of the apparition!
May Our Blessed Lady intercede for us all.
Tommy,
I thought the curious thing about Knock was that Our Lady remained silent throughout. I remember thinking that, given the reputation of the Irish for talking people to death, Our Lady probably couldn’t get a word in, but whatever, you are right to invoke her intercession now. How Ireland needs it.
Tommy
For whatever reason Our Lady came to Knock it certainly wasn’t for the craic or she would have said knock,knock.
Your right about the propensity of the Irish to talk plenty, however there were far too many voices silent during the present fiasco.
Tommy
Maybe it should now read “What God will put asunder is what (Irish) men put together”.
Frankier,
I like it – that’s clever, is that, as they say in the north of England!
Why are Catholics devout, even the turncoats, when Protestants are staunch?
I read on a self-confessed, Irish-immigrant-from-Scotland, atheist`s blog the other day where Mary McAleese (the one who brought peace to Ireland all on her own) is a “devout” Catholic who voted yes.
Would the word devout along with Catholic not be an oxymoron when used describing these people, or would moron suffice?
Frankier,
“Moron” – defined as fool/stupid – would suffice. With rainbow ribbons attached…
Frankier,
I think it could all boil down to severe confusion surrounding the simple difference between upper and lower case letters.
The reason blockheads like McAleese and Burnham (and Keith Vaz and Iain Duncan Smith among many others in Britain along with stunpolls like Kerry and Biden in the U.S.) say and do such pitiable things is because they take a catholic view (as in universal or general) of life which holds that anyone can do what they like “so long as it doesn’t hurt other people” as opposed to a Catholic view which sees everything ‘sub specie aeternitatis’ (under the aspect of eternity).
There’s that proverb that starts ‘For want of a nail, the shoe was lost’. Well for these wretches, they may find that for want of an infant school-level grasp of the implications of one of the most basic rules of written English,they could end up experiencing a lot of ‘discomfort’.
Spudeater,
Well said. Especially the “sub specie” bit and the “For want of a nail” bit. Yes, definitely well said 😀
Why are Catholics devout, even the turncoats, when Protestants are staunch?
I love it Frankier!. That hadn’t struck me before, and ‘staunch’ is such a little-used word in other senses anyway. Apparently (I’ve looked it up of course!) it means very loyal and committed and also (of a ship) watertight. As it originates via the Middle English word meaning ‘watertight’ from Old French ‘estanche’ meaning ‘dried up’, ‘weary’, then I assume Protestants are a rather tired, sorry bunch but at least they don’t suffer from eneuresis.
Anyway, all is not doom and gloom. This morning the BEEB gave both Catholics and catholics a rest and started on the Methodists.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32909444
Oops, sorry Ed. I hadn’t read back to where you gave the final no-longer-to-be-off-topic-in-this-direction warning. I’ll put myself on the naughty step.
Christina,
You’re forgiven – that was too good to ignore so thank you for posting it. As you say, if the BBC is giving us a rest, it’s headline news!
Here’s more headline news – Cardinal Burke (what on EARTH would we do without him these days?) really slaps Ireland hard for doing what even the pre-Christian pagans didn’t do – read here…
Only for Pope Francis speaking out the yes vote would have been much bigger. He did speak out didn’t he, or was it just a dream I had?.
Attono,
If Pope Francis was in it, it’s a nightmare – and no, he shockingly did NOT speak out.
I had a thought today and since that’s not a regular occurrence, I decided to share it here.
When I read somewhere the phrase that “Ireland has been lost to the Church” it made me think of Our Lady’s Fatima warnings that whole nations will be annihilated – which I, like most people I suppose, have always taken to mean geographically off the map. Father Gruner, RIP, used to say that it was the only part of the Fatima message that we know, not to have been fulfilled. If, however, the “annihilation” refers to the loss of whole nations (like Ireland) to the Faith, then that would clearly put Ireland and her faithless bishops and yes-voting priests in the frame as perhaps the first nation to fulfil the Fatima prophecy of nations that will be annihilated.
Is there anybody out there who thinks I’ve got a point? Am a genius? Or simply, as usual, crackers. SPEAK!
Editor,
You may be crackers, but if by that you mean cream crackers with cheese, it is a lovely way to be crackers so to speak. I think you may well be right in what you said. I think the Irish suffer from an inferiority complex, always looking across the water to see what other’s think of us. The writing was on the wall a few years ago when we sent a turkey to the Eurovision Song Contest.
Attono,
I never thought I would see the day when I would be thrilled to be told I’m crackers. Thank you! And I LOVE cream cheese!
You are now moving up the pay scale fast, Attono!
If soldiers in the First World War wanting to be sent back home could affectionately refer to Britain as Blighty, perhaps from now on John Bull’s Other Island should be unaffectionately referred to as Blighted – and I’m not referring to the pestilence that devastated the potato crop in the mid 19th Century. The situation now makes the Famine look positively benign. Blighty and Blighted – has a certain ring to it.
I know boasting is generally to be frowned upon but I got one of Ed.’s much coveted smiley emoticons. As Lydia from the Acts of the Apostles might have said after converting, “I can dye happy!”
Spudeater
“As Lydia from the Acts of the Apostles might have said after converting, “I can dye happy!”
Hilarious! Love it! And for good measure…
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
Spudeater,
If one emoticon from Editor is sufficient to make you ‘dye happy’, what do you think Editor is trying to say with 6 smiley emoticons??????
You’re a genius Ed. Would “In Portugal the dogma of the faith will always be preserved etc.” tend to indicate that ‘annihilation’ might mean the loss of faith?
Christina,
You are right! Editor is a genius!! Annihilation might very well mean loss of faith.
In which case, nations are destroying themselves at an alarming rate.
Would you say the warning of Our Lady at La Salette that there would be a time when we wouldn’t have the Mass, could mean the time of the NO mass?
I don’t know, but I’ve very often wondered. When I occasionally had to go to an NO Mass that was particularly bad, the words ‘abomination of desolation’ used to come unbidden into my mind, but I always tried to push them away.
Psst. Why haven’t we both gone up the pay scale?
You have! You have! I was just coming in to say both Christina and Jobstears have SHOT up the payscale! I was beginning to think nobody would ever realise my genius! At last you two have proven me wrong! And of all the things that I’m glad to be wrong about, it’s that I’m NOT a genius – if you get my drift 😀
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