General Discussion (9)
If there’s something of interest in the news that’s not covered in one of the topic threads, or you have a question to ask, a comment you’d like to make about anything under the sun, more or less, this is the thread for you. However, please check first, to ensure that you haven’t missed a topic thread or another thread where it would be appropriate to post your comment. Readers have occasionally gone straight to the General Discussion thread to post news that is already the topic of a thread or to ask a question that is already being discussed elsewhere. So, do your Sherlock Holmes before posting here, please and thank you!
Feel free, also, to share your favourite spiritual reading books, prayers and devotions. Whatever. Enjoy!
To read General Discussion Thread (1) click here (2) click here (3) click here (4) click here (5) click here (6) click here (7) click here (8) click here
Comments (545)
OK folks, this is what’s left of the free books:- If you want any of them (just paying the P&P) please email westminsterfly@btinternet.com and let me have your details, then send cheque for the P&P to Editor at Catholic Truth (with a note saying that the cheque is for books). Thanks. WF.
Quantity Title Author
5 A landscape with Dragons Michael O’Brien
1 The Ceremonies of the Roman Rite Described Fortesque – O’Connell
1 Holy Bible (St James)
1 The Pope’s Armada Gordon Urquhart
1 Women Priests and other Fantasies Rev.Vincent Michel
1 Three Popes and a Cardinal Malachi Martin
1 The Way of Divine Love Sr Josefa Menendez
1 St Thomas Aquinas Jacques Maritain
1 Not the Whole Truth John Cardinal Heenan
1 Apologia Pro Vita Sua John Cardinal Newman
1 The Catholic Church through the Ages Martin P. Harney SJ
1 St Emile de Rodat Trans. By Gaetan Bernoville
1 The Divine Armoury of Holy Scripture Kenelm Vaughan
1 set In Conversation with God Vols I – VII Francis Fernandez
1 Catholic London Douglas Newton
1 Emmaus Denis McBride
1 Life of Mons R H Benson Vol 2 C C Martindale SJ
1 Jean de Brebeuf Joseph P Donnelly SJ
1 The Whole Truth about Fatima Vol 2 Frere Michel de la St. Trinite
1 Witnesses to Jesus M. Malinski
1 When God made the World (Childs book) David Hunter
1 Butlers Lives of the Saints (Concise Ed) Forward by Basil Cardinal Hume
1 A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture
1 St Ignatius of Loyola Leonard Von Matt & Hugo Rahner
1 St Theresa and Lisieux a Photo Documentary Pierre Descouvement & Helmuth Nils Loose
1 John Paul II Fatima Pilgrim a Photo Documentary
1 The Holy Land Photo Book
1 Cause of the Canonisation of the Blessed Martyrs of England and Wales, Official Presentation
of the Documents on Martyrdom and Cult to the Sacred Congregation of Rites Historical Section Archdiocese of Westminster
1 small Missal 1930
1 small Missal 1956
Daily Missal 1937
1 Missal 1952
Note: I’ve had an email this morning from a reader who comments on the link posted on the previous General Discussion thread about the child found dead on the beach in the migrant crisis: the reader warns us that “the ‘independent’ news source you link to is affiliated to the French National Front…”
I promised to post his message here, to help us to be on our guard against possibly subversive agendas when following links to apparently “independent” news.
Editor, I understand that you had to pass on this warning. However, since your correspondent reads this blog, perhaps he would substantiate his claim. Also I am interested in the implication (if I read it aright) that one should assume the NF’s claims to be less trustworthy than those of the PC-saturated media. In any case, the claim, whatever its source, that these boat-people had been settled in Turkey for three years and were not immediately fleeing Syria, can be truly independently checked. Propagandists are not usually quite so careless!
Christina,
“the claim, whatever its source, that these boat-people had been settled in Turkey for three years and were not immediately fleeing Syria, can be truly independently checked.”
I haven’t spent long Googling, but I can’t find anything to suggest that the boat-people had been in Turkey for three years. I would dearly love to have a good source for that because, I, too, am uneasy and a bit suspicious about this sudden “migrant crisis”.
If you have a link you could post, that would be great. Thanks, Christina. In the meantime, I will keep Googling as well.
The whole thing gets murkier by the minute:- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3230422/Abdullah-Kurdi-people-smuggler-migrant.html
Prayers of reparation are needed for this horrific sacrilege:- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858087/Burglars-urinate-in-holy-water-at-Sunderland-church.html The First Nine Fridays and First Five Saturdays reparational devotions are more important than ever now.
There really are some low lives in society.
Very well said, Christina. Spot on.
If Editor’s correspondent has something to say, in refuting and correcting falsehoods, I’m sure we would all benefit.
In the absence of clarification, I’m guessing that the following link, which I posted on the previous general discussion thread on September 9, at 9.13pm, is the one in question:
http://galliawatch.blogspot.ie/
I did add the following comments:
“It isn’t a religious blog as such, and readers here may need to exercise discretion and judgement at times, but it’s fair to say that from what I recall, in large part, the much needed defence of Christian Civilisation is given a boost. While the blog deals with French news, the lessons apply across the West. The regular updates on the ongoing squabbles between members of the Le Pen family and other political stories may not be of interest to everyone, but much of the content offers a very welcome and informative alternative to the Alinsky-spirited agitprop drivel that passes for mainstream news and journalism across lands whose culture is rooted in Christian civilisation.”
If someone “affiliated to the French National Front” were to express the view that France, the Eldest Daughter of the Church, can boast of a glorious Catholic past, with many great saints and a proud role in the Church Militant’s fight for the Kingship of Christ; if that person were to declare that for more than two centuries France, under the yoke of its secular powers, has wallowed in the ever deepening abyss of a satanically inspired revolt against God; if that person were to declare that France will be chastised greatly before playing a leading role in the victory of the Immaculate Heart of Mary over the forces of satan, are such words to be declared inadmissible?
Surely such a dismissal would be childish stupidity, a logical fallacy. I’m happy to trust that most bloggers here are wise and prudent enough to come to mature, reliable judgements on any evidence they are presented with.
On the current migration headline story, readers might be interested in the following evidence (with very informative links embedded). For anyone who might be worried, the only mention of a French man is the Michelin chef on duty at Calais to cater for the culinary tastes, or demands, of the migrants.
https://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/hungarian-bishop-pope-wrong-muslim-refugee-crisis-actually-invasion-of-europe/
There is also some detailed treatment of “that” photograph of the tragic death of a young boy contained in one of the links within the above.
Like I say, people have to form their own opinions on this one. Let’s not have them made for us.
Leo, Christina et al,
To be fair, the reader in question is more a reader of our newsletter, not a regular blog reader, at least, not as far as I know. I’ve discovered that not everyone is a fan of blogging, which, personally, I think ought to be a criminal, if not a capital, offence!
Allow me to clarify the context of his remark… I happened to be in email contact about something else with this reader and in the context of a previous conversation about “independent new sources” I sent him the link to the discussion on the migrants – his reply was literally a one-liner pointing out the link to the French National Front with a “just be careful” warning. He was NOT condemning the information outright. I ought to make that clear.
Yes, the relentlessly one-sided unsupported stories and unchallenged versions of “reality” being pushed out by the BBC and others are way out in front as regards being shamelessly biased. At present Russia Today is far more believable on practically any topic, As regards the French National Front they are probably closer to the Christian West than any of the UK political parties.
For example, the BBC claim the Hungarians are mistreating the migrants by throwing food parcels at them. However, as these savages have no concept of queuing, the strong young men barge to the front, and women and children are at the back. To get the parcels to women and children the parcels have to be thrown over the heads of the men.
But that does not suit the MSM message that all migrants are victims.
Nor does the MSM mention the fact that the migrants leave a trail of filth, mess and destruction in their wake across Europe.
Coming here soon fully supported by Archbishop Tartaglia.
Andrew
I totally agree with your views on the BBC and the MSM. Probably a truer picture is in this video.
http://www.infowars.com/migrant-crisis-the-footage-the-media-refuses-to-broadcast
Thanks for the link. While the BBC are lying, with the rest of the MSM, and lying very effectively I now think that their approach has become standard across all news. “Suppressio Veri, Suggestio Falsi”, seems to work quite well.
Read this – now Archbishop Cushley (Edinburgh) is fighting for a place on the “I’ll-give-a-refugee-a-home” bandwagon. And note the joint letter from the “religious leaders” mentioned at the end, with its rebuke for the use of “dehumanising language” – a reference, no doubt, to David Cameron’s use of the word “swarm”. Talk about making mountains out of molehills, fiddling while Rome burns blah blah.
Doesn’t the archbishop realise that this sort of “follow the crowd” behaviour only serves to demean him in the eyes of thinking Catholics (and no doubt others, as well)?
After all, Pope Francis has made showers and heavens knows what else, available to the “regular homeless” in Rome, not just refugees, so what is the archbishop et al going to do about the homeless in Edinburgh? Is he going to offer shelter, showers, accommodation, whatever, to them? Oh wait – they’re not hitting the headlines, so no. Probably not.
Gimme strength.
I see elementary geography isn’t a requirement to be an archbishop. “Scotland is a big country…” Er, no it isn’t, your Grace – look at a map! It really doesn’t inspire confidence, does it?
CD,
I suppose it seems big after Vatican City!
I wrote to Archbishop Cushley somem time ago and received an anodyne reply. We are lumbered with pusillanimous nonentities for bishops. I have criticised them for supping with the devil while failing to take a long spoon but they, alas, have joined the celeb culture. They will not criticise the Government in case they stop being asked to dinner.
I had thought that comparative religion was included in the training of a priest and that they would therefor have gleaned some understanding of islam, maybe even the historical context. All they seem to see are those views held in common such as being anti abortion. Hence they have allowed muslims access to Catholic schools. A pathetic surrender to the secular multiculti vision of Councils and the jobsworths who run them. Worse, a betrayal of, and an insult to those Catholics of the late 19th century who paid taxes to support State schools and also put up the money to create Catholic schools.
The bishops seem to unable or unwilling to understand that two men may agree that electricity is a good thing. But one man thinks it is good because he wants to heat his home. The second man thinks it is good because he wants to use it to electrocute the first man.
Archbishop Tartaglia’s letter ends “The love of Christ compels us”, however that love surely does not compel us to deliver the Church into the hands of our mortal and spiritual enemies.
Glasgow is the main destination in Scotland, apparently.
http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/refugee-towns-345884.jpg
Constantine,
That Glasgow is the main destination in Scotland for refugees made me smile and reminded me of a newspaper report some years ago, when I lived in England; colleagues had great fun at my expense telling me about a newspaper report on asylum seekers who had been told they were going to be sent to Scotland. They kicked up a fuss and said they would appeal. My colleagues thoroughly enjoyed pointing out to me that even asylum seekers from dictatorships would sooner return to face torture and death than move to Scotland 😀
Now, if I’d had the same PC outlook as the barrister who put the face of a colleague on the front page of the tabloid press for describing her photo as “stunning” (not in my opinion, by the way) I could have acted the wounded animal and screamed “racism!” I could also, perhaps, have sued the asylum seekers for the same “crime” and now be worth my weight in gold. If only I hadn’t signed up for Scottish Slimmers. Ach well… 😀
I bet all the Kurds who came here twenty-odd years ago would flatly refuse to leave Scotland and go to live in England now. Even Polish people I know in Edinburgh say they would not even go back to Poland.
As for the Syrian refugees, I think Glasgow may be the main hub rather before subsequent dispersal, if that is the right word, to various places in Scotland, e.g. 475 Catholic parishes and 1500 Church of Scotland parishes. We can’t leave it all to Germany and Sweden, surely.
Trying to find help:
We’ve just launched a thread on the “migrant crisis” – so perhaps better to post comments on the subject of the refugees on that thread from now on.
Neither is any basic grasp of science a prerequisite for the occupation of St Peter’s chair.
See recent and past agitprop of the Marxist global warming scam.
I know I’m risking being labelled even “dumber” than the dumb blonde on the other thread, but I really don’t get this constant referring to “Marxism” in the various issues e.g. climate change/global warming/homosexuality etc. After all, there isn’t a political party in the UK or USA as far as I’m aware, that isn’t pushing these things. How come it’s “Marxism” or “Socialism” to blame? I just don’t see it, sorry. Is David Cameron a Marxist? They’re not even socialist in the sense of helping the poor, they’re all into austerity (for the poor, not for themselves) so I really have to ask for help in understanding this fixation with labelling everything “Marxist”.
I agree with you – I dislike this use of “Marxism” because it makes people who are natural Labour voters feel as if they’re doing something wrong. I followed the advice on this blog and spoilt my paper at the election but I am a natural Labour voter and would never vote for any other party – poor people don’t usually! I’m disappointed that they have become so politically correct, pro-abortion etc. but then so have all the others. That’s why I spoilt my ballot paper and will go on doing that until things change really radically.
I think it is more accurate to speak of “godlessness” because that applies to all the parties right now. It’s because they’re godless that they are believers in climate change, abortion, sodomy, polygamy (the Green party leader said she had no problem with it!) and the rest. Some people will argue that that’s what they mean, Marxism is godless, but so is the unfettered free market economy.
I agree with you, all the main political parties, including the Conservatives, can be considered ‘culturally Marxist’, ‘Godless’ as you put it.
It is American right wing hyperbole. They probably don’t know what ‘Marxism’ and ‘Socialism’ are. The Fox News types would probably accuse Chris Ferrara and John Vennari as ‘socialists’ in as much as they reject the neo-conservative, neo-liberal establishment in the US, which American neo-Catholics frequently confuse with orthodox Catholicism.
Maybe Pope Francis should go to Africa BEFORE the Synod, not afterwards!
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-officially-confirms-pope-francis-visit-to-africa-in-november-23580/
If I remember rightly, the Africans were not part of the Kasper group at the first part of the synod last year.
Michaela and Nicky,
My definition of Marxism comes from Collins Consise.
“The economic and political theory originated by Karl Marx and Freidrich Engels, holding that human institutions are ecomically determined, the class struggle is the agency of historical change, and communism will ultimately replace capitalism”
If you subscribe to that notion well good luck.
My interpretation of atheistic communism is the suppression of free speech, the confiscation of my neighbours goods, and the denial of human rights.
And it only works until the powers that be run out of others people’s money.
Does that ring any socialist bells?
I think your Collins definition is the problem. Not many people I know who think of themselves as socialists would subscribe to the beliefs defined by Collins as “Marxism” but they think of socialism as a fairer way to do politics, one that doesn’t just focus on greed and acquisition. I don’t want communism to replace capitalism but I want something to replace the way capitalism is calling the shots in politics right now. I don’t see how any Catholic can subscribe to unfettered capitalism (which is what we’ve basically got in Britain today) any more than we can subscribe to communism.
As for your comment about free speech – well, it’s not atheistic communism that’s suppressing free speech here in Britain. It’s every political party, right, left and centre, with the Conservative capitalist government leading the way in making very strict laws about what we can and cannot say. It’s only a matter of time before we have a Kim Davis thrown in jail here in Britain.
So no your description of the denial of free speech etc doesn’t ring any socialist bells. It rings bells that include the succession of “progressive liberal” political parties and governments that we’ve had for years now, all of them desperate to show that they’re centre-ground or right wing. None of them want to be “lefty” socialists – including the Labour party. LOL !
Nicky et al,
We do our level best to avoid party politics here and all discussions to push us to the “left” or to the “right” are unhelpful. Our concern is with right and wrong, truth and error, not political theories, so please avoid introducing these themes into our discussions as it can be distracting and cause animosity. As someone has correctly said above (I skimmed earlier, meant to respond but got side-tracked, so can’t recall who said what exactly) but as someone said, our concern is with the Godlessness around us, and it is certainly sometimes (often, even) germane to our conversations to highlight the fact that our politicians are Godless, but there the politics element ends for us.
There are plenty of political blogs out there – and the majority of newspapers reporting on politicians and their various machinations (in all directions!) have discussion facilities appended – for anyone who wishes to debate political theories.
On this blog, we have quite enough to do reflecting on the damage being inflicted on the Church during the current crisis of faith and authority – which makes the geo-political and economic mess around us, almost seem like a well-ordered state of affairs! 😀
Nicky, I beg to differ. The prevailing system at the moment is not capitalism, but corporatism.
There is a very big difference between the two which very few seem to appreciate.
Waterside4,
“My interpretation of atheistic communism is the suppression of free speech, the confiscation of my neighbours goods, and the denial of human rights.”
If these were the essential marks of atheistic Communism then we would have to concede that National Socialism under Hitler was a Communist regime. I think it is more likely that the identifiers you highlight as unique to Communism are rather secondary evils applicable to any and all godless despotic ideologies.
Atheistic Communism is different in that it is completely diabolic in origin; the religion of Anti-Christ. Regardless of all pretended political and economic aims, it exists solely to eradicate Christianity from the face of the earth by whatever means it can. Hence the seeming contradiction between Soviet era Communism (still in vogue in North Korea) and modern Chinese Communism/Capitalism. This evil ideology can adapt itself to any set of circumstances because it has only that single aim in view, despite all rhetoric to the contrary.
In this sense we can truly say that Communism has subjugated the world, just as its theoreticians and proponents predicted it would, by the spreading of lies and myths such as evolutionism. Marx, for example, very quickly recognised the anti-Scripture potential in Charles Darwin’s “Origin of the Species” and adapted it to become a principle tenet of Marxism. It says everything that this Marxist adaptation, which contradicts the established laws of science, not to mention recorded history, is the doctrine held and taught today in all the former Christian countries of the West and elsewhere, a feat that could not have been imagined just 60 years ago. Once it is established that man is less the Creation of God than the offspring of a distant monkey species, then it is an easy step to replace the Divine Law with the law of the jungle and survival of the fittest.
Religious ecumenism also works along these lines, though in relation to the origin of religious faith, which it is claimed evolves within the consciousness of man (immanentism). It is little recognised today that during the 1930s, 40s and 50s, at the very height of religious persecution in Soviet Bloc countries, the Kremlin was presenting itself to the world as the great champion of ecumenical and inter-religious dialogue. Yes, prior to Vatican II, Soviet Russia was the principle peddler of ecumenism, recognising, as it did, that such a programme, mixing religious truth with error, would assuredly result in confusion, indifference and finally atheism. How accurate was that assessment!
We should never seek to distinguish between Bolshevism, Communism and Marxism as though they were spearate entities, for they are all tentacles of the same beast, applied and/or retracted in accordance with circumstances. Think of it in terms of the political parties that dominate all the countries of the Western world today. In our own country, for example, we have Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem and SNP, each proposing a different agenda for the betterment of society, yet all united in the same counter-Christian objectives. It is this common atheism, becoming more and more aggressive, that betrays the truth that Britain, like so many other apparently diverse political nations, is in reality a one-party country of different shades of Red.
As for the myth that Communism is of the people and for the people, this does not chime with the fact that the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution in Russia was financed by international banks. Nor does it fit with the history of Britain’s most notorious Russian spies, men of privileged background and luminaries of our top universities.
The problem today is that so few people look beneath the social economic programmes and promises of political parties to discover what they stand for morally and religiously. For most, the only thing that matters is personal economic gain. Hence, the once honourable political system in this country has deteriorated in our day to a handful of atheistic parties vying with each other for power on the shallow basis of who can offer the people the most attractive economic bribes.
Well did Pope Pius IX (I believe) predict that in whatever country Communism takes root, that country will very quickly find itself morally, spiritually and financially bankrupt. This is the tragedy unfolding all over Europe before our eyes today, just as Our Lady of Fatima warned.
Athanasius,
Thank you for such a profound post which all of us would do well to re-read and meditate.
Concerning Soviet Communism, I remember admiring a beautiful white church in the centre of Moscow when I visited the city a few years ago. Our guide told me that it is a contemporary reconstruction, down to the last detail, of the ancient church which stood on the site before Stalin had it destroyed. Why did he destroy it? In order to build a public lavatory in its place. And where were the latrines? By design, precisely in the place where the altar once stood. That brought the diabolical nature of communism home to me in a way that will never leave me.
It is beyond belief the extent to which Europe has adopted a social democratic consensus in which almost every political party is practically athiest. Just think. The leader of Britain’s so-called Conservatibe Party was reported the other day as referring to those opposed to homosexual marriage as Neanderthals. This is the same Conservative Party whose official policy is not to extend grammar schools.
Unfortunately, the leaders of the Catholic Church have been singularly slow in joining up the dots. Most of them believed that we were basking in a spring sun of the Holy Spirit, a new dawn, when actually it was a blood-red dragon which was looming on the horizon. Now that the truth is becoming ever more evident with each year that passes, they prefer to keep their heads in the sand by seeking to accommodate the Gospel to the prevailing wind. Trouble is, the source of the prevailing wind will never be placated.
Thank you Athanasius for a masterful summation on the state of post Vatican 2 society.
I particularly endorse your view of all parties (political and religious note dear Editor) vying with each other in the race to the bottom.
Thanks Nicky for your input.
My main point being that in order to have a socialist utopia, someone e.g. wage earners in real jobs will have to finance it. See the crazy economics emanating from the pretend parliament in Holyrood – who is going to pay for never never land?
Finally my abiding memory of my 73rd year on this earth is of our Holy Father not only holding a hammer and sickle crucifix but sporting a similar abomination around his neck.
Which bit of communism is he endorsing?
Thank you, Athanasius for that really excellent post, which sets out so well and succinctly the diabolical source and spirit of Marxism.
Readers here hardly need to be reminded that Archbishop Lefebvre understood very well the ongoing, unprecedented evils perpetrated in the world by Communism. The Archbishop would rightly say: “The refusal of this pastoral Council (Vatican II) to issue any official condemnation of Communism alone suffices to disgrace it for all time, when one thinks of the tens of millions of martyrs, of people having their personalities scientifically destroyed in the psychiatric hospitals, serving as guinea-pigs for all sorts of experiments.”- Letter to Friends and Benefactors, No. 9, Quoted from Pope John’s Council, p. 245.
On the use of the word Marxism in discussion here, I might just add that if the militant Marxism of Lenin, Stalin, Mao and their various evil offspring and sub-contractor thugs throughout the world might be called a flamethrower, then the “soft” version, the cultural Marxism pervading the West by means of the “long march through the institutions”, can be described as carbon monoxide: less violent, and insidious, but fatal nonetheless. Nobody needs instruction on the one of the most pervasive and toxic manifestations of cultural Marxism; “political correctness”.
Please excuse me for reposting this link (previously on the Kim Davis thread) but it is relevant to this discussion. It deals with one of the most successful vectors of cultural Marxism in the West, the Frankfurt School.
http://www.cfnews.org.uk/PEP.htm#1
Here is a flavour. As an aside, I’m not sure what is meant by the first on the eleven enumerated points below, since racism is a disgusting moral evil, totally contrary to Christian doctrine, but the remainder are thought provoking, to say the least.
QUOTE:
“Basically, the Frankfurt School believed that as long as an individual had the belief – or even the hope of belief – that his divine gift of reason could solve the problems facing society, then that society would never reach the state of hopelessness and alienation that they considered necessary to provoke socialist revolution. Their task, therefore, was as swiftly as possible to undermine the Judaeo-Christian legacy. To do this they called for the most negative destructive criticism possible of every sphere of life which would be designed to de-stabilize society and bring down what they saw as the ‘oppressive’ order. Their policies, they hoped, would spread like a virus—‘continuing the work of the Western Marxists by other means’ as one of their members noted.
“To further the advance of their ‘quiet’ cultural revolution – but giving us no ideas about their plans for the future – the School recommended (among other things):
1. The creation of racism offences.
2. Continual change to create confusion
3. The teaching of sex and homosexuality to children
4. The undermining of schools’ and teachers’ authority
5. Huge immigration to destroy identity.
6. The promotion of excessive drinking
7. Emptying of churches
8. An unreliable legal system with bias against victims of crime
9. Dependency on the state or state benefits
10. Control and dumbing down of media
11. Encouraging the breakdown of the family
“One of the main ideas of the Frankfurt School was to exploit Freud’s idea of ‘pansexualism’ – the search for pleasure, the exploitation of the differences between the sexes, the overthrowing of traditional relationships between men and women. To further their aims they would:
“• attack the authority of the father, deny the specific roles of father and mother, and wrest away from families their rights as primary educators of their children.
• abolish differences in the education of boys and girls
• abolish all forms of male dominance – hence the presence of women in the armed forces
• declare women to be an ‘oppressed class’ and men as ‘oppressors’
Munzenberg summed up the Frankfurt School’s long-term operation thus: ‘We will make the West so corrupt that it stinks.’
“The School believed there were two types of revolution: (a) political and (b) cultural. Cultural revolution demolishes from within. ‘Modern forms of subjection are marked by mildness’. They saw it as a long-term project and kept their sights clearly focused on the family, education, media, sex and popular culture.”
END QUOTE
David Cameron has probably been called a few names by plenty of people, but “Marxist” wouldn’t be the first the spring to mind. Nevertheless, if readers scroll down to section in the article entitled “Big Society”, they will read the following:
“And now in Britain we see the influence of the Frankfurt School edging even further forwards in the form of the Alinsky-inspired ‘Big Society’.
Yet another ‘transformational Marxist’, Saul Alinsky (1909-1972) was a radical Chicago activist – idolized by Barack Obama – who had made a study of Antonio Gramsci’s blueprint for social transformation and avidly promoted the Frankfurt School’s strategy of the ‘long march through the institutions’.”
“And so it was that in the UK in 2009 that David Cameron, apparently mesmerised by his friend Barack Obama, announced that he would help push forward the decades-long march by endorsing the Alinsky programme by creating a ‘neighbourhood army’ of 5,000 full-time professional ‘community organisers’. Could he possibly have realised what he was doing?”
Whatever else, the above is rather thought stimulating.
On the general question of Communism’s more “silent” attacks on Western Civilisation, the following excerpt of an interview with KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov is also worth reading.
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/brainwashing/2007/bezmenov.htm
(if required there should be a Zoom option available (plus sign), by clicking on the three horizontal lines in the top right hand corner of the link)
Notice the Soviet obsession with ideological subversion and psychological warfare, with 15-20 years regarded as sufficient time cause decisive damage to a nation. It’s hard to avoid thinking of the five decades of post Conciliar “New Springtime” that the Church has endured.
There are also a few youtube videos featuring Bezmenov that should prove a bit of an eye opener.
According to the Italian Communist Antonio Gramsci (1891-1937), a leading agent of cultural Marxism, Christianity must be secularised, and Western morals and culture corrupted in order for the “peaceful” achievement of the Communist Revolution’s aims. Gramsci said, “Socialism is precisely the religion that must overwhelm Christianity.” Control of the Western mind is effected by controlling the media, changing the meaning of words, and destabilising society through corruption. With society thus “deconstructed”, the mind is confused and more open to collaboration with the enemy. (see Perestroika, by Anatoliy Golitsyn (another Soviet defector), pp 116-117)
The words of Hilaire Belloc in his 1920 book Europe and the Faith come into ever more stark relief with each passing week:
“Europe will return to the Faith or Europe will perish”.
Can’t really get more succinct than that.
It seems like most issues we deal with on this blog are linked to the rejection of the Social Kingship of Christ and the message of Our Lady at Fatima.
The subject of this discussion is just another example of the errors of Russia. Think of what we would have been spared if Our Lady’s instruction 86 years ago about the Consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart by the Pope and bishops of the world had been implemented.
And so the wait goes on. Indeed it is getting late.
This document is very revealing:-
http://uscl.info/edoc/doc.php?doc_id=89&action=inline.
Westminsterfly
I have just finished reading the document you posted, it is indeed very revealing and frightening. One can see the times mentioned towards the end of the document are almost here.
Thank you for taking the time to post it.
Waterside4,
Yes, that hammer and sickle crucifix was about as blasphemous an object as it is possible to imagine. That Pope Francis received the horrible thing with gratitude and wore it around his neck just beggars belief. Pius XII must have been spinning in his grave. We can only guess the global outrage, and rightly so, had a Jewish Rabbi instead been presented with a Star of David superimposed on a Nazi Swastika.
The question for us is this: Was that image supposed to represent the subjugation of Communism by Christ Crucified, or was it intended to represent the subjugation of Christ’s Holy Church by Communism? I think the answer is self evident given the present state of the world and what we now know about Soviet infiltration of the seminaries in the 1940s, 50s and 60s, and the subsequent “revolution in cope and mitre” that occurred in the Church post Vatican II. This was the first and most important application of Soviet ‘Glasnost’ and ‘Perestroika’ (Openness and Restructuring), the success of which was absolutely essential if the second phase, the unchallenged subjugation of all Western nations under atheistic socialism, was to be realised. In other words, the Church first had to be silenced if Communist duplicity was to succeed in enslaving the entire world under its godless yoke. Tragically, Pope Francis unwittingly received and wore the Communist badge of victory.
Leo,
Your comments about the Frankfurt school are indeed revealing; they compliment what the Popes since Pius IX and, as you point out, Archbishop Lefebvre, made known to us about the dark forces presently at work in the Church and in the world.
I noted your questioning of the rationale behind the Frankfurt school’s “creation of racism offences,” since, as you correctly state, racism is already abhorrent to Christians and completely at odds with the message of the Gospel.
But perhaps the Frankfurt school was not referring to racism as most understand and despise it. Perhaps they meant that they would make it a racist offence to so much as question mass inter-culturation. How often have we heard a politician being shouted down as racist, for example, for merely stating the obvious that our small country cannot support mass immigration?
And we see all the time this encroaching political correctness which has been carried to such loony levels as the banning of hot cross buns in a particular city because the cross shape on the bun was considered by one overpaid brainless bureaucrat as potentially offensive to Muslims. I remember a Muslim woman being interviewed on camera at the time of the ban, saying that she wished people would stop telling her what is and is not offensive to her. “I liked my hot cross buns,” she declared.
It’s a similar thing with those who oppose the homosexual lifestyle on moral/religious grounds, they are immediately labelled “homophobes” to silence them. I rather think this is what the Frankfurt school had in mind.
Bishop Morlino, Bishop of Madison USA, who only a short time ago (early August) in his diocesan newspaper warned people to “have nothing to do with the SSPX” has issued an apology of sorts.
He claims that he didnt personally write the “have nothing to do with them” line and indeed asked for it to be removed when he was reviewing the drafts. But, somehow, his wishes were not heeded and it got into the final published article. Apparently. See this link for the original article:
http://www.madisoncatholicherald.org/bishopscolumns/5803-society-of-st-pius-x.html
So that is how all this happened, allegedly.
But now he has apologised for that line and says he has never felt that way about the SSPX.
Strange that he did not flag up that words had been mis-attitubted to him until some 6 weeks afterwards, coincidentally (I am sure) just after Pope Francis confirmed the SSPX ability to absolve sins.
One would almost figure that, rather than being misquoted and wishing to address that, Morlino felt he had been made to look a fool after Francis’ declaration and is now frantically backtracking.
See here for the video in which he explains and apologises:
http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2015/09/sspx-apologizes-retracts-line-about-sspx.html
(my only complaint about the video is that the EWTN presenter absurdly describes the SSPX as a “breakaway group” – in a segment where a Bishop is apologising for casting similar aspersions).
Athanasius
Thank you for taking the trouble to post those comments about the Frankfurt Schools and the “creation of racism offenses”. I think your explanation makes perfect sense, and I agree completely.
In these days of all pervasive PC tyranny, it appears that the legal system is to deployed as just one more weapon in taking down Western Civilisation.
Just reading the list of Glasgow schools where the most violence and exclusions have taken place.Nearly fell out the bed at the laughable comment from the education guy.PARENTS NEED TO TAKE MORE RESPONSIBILITY.THERE ISNT ENOUGH DISCIPLINE.Think he would best discuss this with the do gooders who have told us parents what we can and cannot do with our own children.I think you reap what you sow comes to mind.
Morgana,
Well said. This is definitely a case of wanting to have their cake and eat it.
I came across this video of an abortion survivor’s testimony in the efforts of some Ámerican pro-lifers to defund Planned Parenthood following the exposure of their black market in selling the body parts of aborted babies.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EjHWxFbah8?feature=player_embedded&w=640&h=360%5D
Wow! What a video. Very powerful.
Helen,
It really is very powerful. Let’s hope the efforts to defund that evil organisation Planned Parenthood, pay off.
I should think you’ll find this very interesting, from Joses Martin of ‘Mighty Motion Pictures’……
‘To everyone who helped make HUSH happen,
Thank you so much for your important role in this film.
The film is completed and our World Premiere is in Hollywood at La Femme Women’s Film Festival, Thursday October 15.
It’s powerful, it’s controversial, and we believe the film has real potential to spark a new level of thought provoking, open conversation across political boundaries on the topic of abortion and women’s reproductive health.
You are welcome to come to the screening if you are able to attend. Any help you can give promoting the event in the LA area, or spreading word about the film as a whole, is certainly appreciated!
From here we will be looking for theatrical, television and non broadcast distribution for the film so that hopefully it can be available for viewing in your area soon. We’ll try to keep you up to date but until then, you can see and share the trailer at http://www.hushfilm.com follow the films progress on facebook at http://www.facebook.com/hushdoc
and Twitter at Twitter.com/Hush_film’
Enough to give Hillary Clinton et al a heart attack!
Look at this!
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-us-house-votes-to-defund-planned-parenthood
Editor,
This is one you might like to keep your beedy eye on:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html
Thought: if it looks, walks and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck.
Prognosticum,
I think I’m going to have to add a bit to our T & C (About Us) section, to make clear that we do not encourage discussion of party politics or their leaders on this blog. It is quite clear that there is NO politician in the land, that any Catholic with a conscience could possibly vote into power, given the fact that they all hold to immoral views on just about everything, from sex-education for small children, to same-sex “marriage”, so which leader is worse in his personal life than any other leader, really is of no interest to us. Just pray for them, don’t vote for them has (in my view) to be our mindset.
Before elections we usually have a thread which is really designed to remind us that there is no political party which is not offensive to God, and thus we have to think extremely carefully before voting for any of them, but generally speaking, we try to keep our discussions party-political-free.
Since it’s five years to the next General Election, I, therefore, won’t be “keeping any eye” on the situation covered in the article you linked because, frankly, I don’t expect much of any politician, and certainly not in the arena of personal morality. Judgmental? You bet!
I’m leaving that particular link to underline what I’ve said here but I would ask you and other bloggers to desist from posting party-political material here – unless it’s something like X party is now opposed to abortion/same-sex “marriage” blah blah.
Thank you.
Well, that’s me told.
Over and out.
Message received and understood 😀
However, Prognosticum, if you’d witnessed previous occasions on this blog when we went all “party political” you would be cutting me a little slack. The only thing we didn’t have to deal with, was blood, for obvious reasons!
So, let’s keep it general and let’s keep it focused on higher things. That way, we’ll all enjoy the chat!
I’ve been working on the October newsletter all day, racing to get it ready for the printer, so I’m seeing not a lot of news, general or otherwise, on the blog. Will do my best to post a fresh topic later this evening.
I understand, but I wasn’t intending to put a party political spin on this development. I do agree that most of our politicians are much of a muchness–even if I was pleasantly surprised by the recent vote of assisted suicide–but what I would have been hitting up is the vast discrepancy between public perception and private reality in our politics, which is another manifestation of the father of lies. Christ was just the opposite, because what you saw and heard was what you got.
The unintended consequence of this book will be to teach people–especially young people–that it is ok to lie and dissimulate. If the PM can do it, then why not I?
We are truly in an era of the blind leaving the blind.
As I said I do understand your concerns, as well as the effort that running this blog and editing thenewsletter must entail.
So, no hard feelings on my part.
Prognosticum,
I realised that you weren’t meaning to open up a party political discussion, but past experience has taught me that the minute someone mentions a particular party, someone else comes on to promote another and so on and so forth, blah blah and before you know it, the knives are out, metaphorically speaking!
Regarding your latest post – I completely agree with every word. To my amazement, the contents of that book have been on the BBC news today, so wonders will never cease. I really did presume it would be given the silent treatment. So, wonders, as I say, will never…
Some of you folks may have received your hard copy of the latest Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice Newsletter. It can be also be downloaded here http://proecclesia.com/Flock/FLOCK-2015-3-Autumn.pdf
Here’s a taster of its contents…
‘The stench of sodomy is destroying the Church from the lowest pew to the Vatican. Countless souls are going to hell because of this vice, a vice so awful that even the Devil, having tempted men into committing this mortal sin, looks away in disgust. Unless these poor, wretched, souls confess and receive absolution and amend their lives they will be eternally damned.
There, Your Excellencies, Your Holinessses, Reverend Fathers, we’ve said it now so you don’t have to. Now you can go back to what you were doing and not have to worry any longer about preaching against this vice. You can continue with your photo-ops, your meetings with the high and the mighty, you can revel in all the good press you will receive from the media and sodomite-friendly politicians, and you don’t need to be bothered with telling anyone they are living in a state of mortal sin. We’ll do that for you.
We laymen, writers, bloggers, and people in the pew … we’ll relieve you of your duty to teach since you apparently aren’t terribly interested in doing so. Don’t preach sermons telling Catholics that contraception, abortion and sodomy are destroying souls and destroying countries. That’s not your job. Your job is to train altar girls, and make sure we’re all participating at what you call a Mass and things like that. We’ll take the hits, the lawsuits, the persecutions, the destruction of our livelihoods (perhaps even our lives, I guess) the opprobrium of the media and everyone else.
We bakers and photographers will see our businesses ruined, our reputations torn to shreds, our bank accounts disappear simply for the pleasure of relieving you of the burden to teach faith and morals. And you don’t even have to visit us in jail if you don’t want to.
We’ll watch our own churches shun us, our former Catholic friends abandon us and our pastors studiously ignore us. We accept this because we know you don’t wish to get your hands dirty by teaching the Faith. You can continue to golf, go to the movies, sit on your thrones, smell your sheep, get interviewed on TV, and receive the goodwill of impostors, heretics, blasphemers and haters of Christ. Don’t worry; we’ll do your fighting for you. You have more important things to do. You have to scurry to Rome and share a glass of wine with the cowards who connive with our oppressors. You have to worry about the environment, about not saying anything Christ-like that might offend rabbis or Hindus (Heaven forbid that you try to convert them!), there are meetings with Happy Clubs and Happy Organizations you must address.
You must extol diversity and welcoming. This is what you must do. So please don’t trouble yourselves about having anything to do with Catholicism. Continue to sit on your collective rumps and enjoy the cheers of the crowd. Because, as I said, I guess we’ll have to do your job for you’.
Brilliant!
I’m not so keen on the Flock since Daphne resigned. I find the new articles are a bit crude, although I got to the very last paragraph before finding one this time. Things are improving in that department!
Oh not so bad MM. Wolves do sit on their rumps.😁
BTW the news this am was inevitable given the enthusiastic public embrace of sodomy, lesbianism, same-sex ‘marriage’, IVF, and so on – women are opting for ‘virgin births’. Not long ago such a possibility was in the more unlikely realms of science fiction.
Click here to read an incredible report about Planned Parenthood’s plans to sue the pro-lifers (“criminals”) who exposed their sale of baby body parts industry. Truly, astonishing stuff.
When did the SSPX in Scotland last organise a pilgrimage to a historical Scottish (or UK) Catholic site?
I note the SSPX and LMS in England are often on pilgrimages, places like Walsingham, York or Ely.
I appreciate the Priests are very busy as it is, (especially given recent issues), but surely one such event per year could be achieved – even if led by a visiting priest, or lay organised* (*in the “Spirit of Vatican II”, of course – haha! 😉 )
Gabriel Syme,
Is that a volunteer I see before me? 😀
Editor, I’d be very glad to help out if possible – do you anticipate it would be a popular idea?
Gabriel Syme,
Organising anything takes time and energy; never having organised a pilgrimage, I’m not sure of my ground, but generally speaking, I’d suggest that if you are willing to take it on,, I’d firstly sound out people in the tearoom to see how many would be interested. I think there WOULD be quite a bit of interest.
From that exercise you would no doubt find someone who would help you and thereafter go to details such as day, pilgrimage site, practicalities (do they bring their own food? Cafes? etc); will you need a priest to attend [unless you want a NO pilgrimage, I’d imagine you would need to invite a priest. Remember, although the SSPX priests are busy driving here, there and everywhere, and may not be free to help, Fr Morris in Balornock is, I’m told, very zealous and will be likely to say “yes”, if he can, to any invitations to such an event.
Once it is all drafted out on a page, so to speak, contact CT and we will publicise it as would other Catholic outlets such as Christian Order, I have no doubt. Plan well in advance to give people time to find out about it and book.
After stage 1 (tearoom chat – I’ll be happy to discuss it with you) you can take it from there, decide whether to go ahead or not. “Maybe aye, maybe naw as they say in downtown Glasgow 😀
Known Catholic dissenters shamefully have signed the petition against the de-funding of Planned Parenthood. Click here to read all about it.
A disgrace. I was surprised not to see the likes of Nancy Pelosi among the names listed. Last I heard she was trying to avoid the issue by repeatedly claiming she “had not seen” the explosive PP videos.
Here’s another snippet from the latest edition of ‘The Flock’, with regard to habitual sin…..
As an antidote to all the talk of [false] “mercy” currently flying around Rome, I
enthusiastically recommend the Sermons of St. Alphonsus Liguori; Sermon
XLI, On the Abuse of Divine Mercy is specially apt; Pope Francis could do no
better then to read it prayerfully. The following is a quote from Section 2:
“When you intend to commit sin, who, I ask, promises you mercy from
God? Certainly God does not promise it. It is the devil that promises it,
that you may lose God and be damned. “Beware”, says St. John Chrysostom,
“never to attend to that dog who promises the mercy of God.” If,
beloved sinners, you have hitherto offended God, hope and tremble: if you
desire to give up sin, and if you detest it, hope; because God promises pardon
to all who repent of the evil they have done. But if you intend to continue
in your sinful course, tremble lest God should wait no longer for you,
but cast you into hell. Why does God wait for sinners? Is it that they may
continue to insult Him? No; He waits for them that they may renounce sin,
and that He may thus have pity on them, and forgive them. “Therefore the
Lord waiteth, that He may have mercy on you” -Isaiah 30:18. But when
He sees that the time which he gave them to weep over their past iniquities
is spent in multiplying their sins, He begins to inflict chastisement, and He
cuts them off in the state of sin, that, by dying, they may cease to offend
Him. Then He calls against them the very time He had given them for re-
pentance. “He hath called against me the time” – Lamentations 1:15.
“The very time”, says St. Gregory, “comes to judge.”
When Chrysostom uses the pejorative “that dog”, it is far from random name-calling.
He is referencing the “dog that returneth to his vomit” from Proverbs 26
and 2 Peter 2. The dog that eats his own vomit; the sow that was washed who
returns to wallow in mud mingled with her own faeces, that is “mire”, is the unrepentant
sinner who has no intention of STOPPING THEIR SINFUL ACTIVITY.
One more quote from section 5 of St. Alphonsus’ sermon:
“St. Bernard says that the confidence which sinners have in God’s goodness,
when they commit sin, procures for them not a blessing, but a malediction
from the Lord. O deceitful hope, which sends so many Christians
to hell! They do not hope for the pardon of sins of which they repent; but
they hope that though they continue to sin, God will have mercy upon
them; and thus they make the mercy of God serve as a motive for continuing
to offend Him”.
Could one describe more accurately the Francis/Kasper proposal to admit couples
living in adultery to Holy Communion?……
I trust many regulars to this blog will agree that there is no ‘freedom from sin’ this side of the grave – in our thoughts, in our words, in what we do and in what we fail to do. One could be tempted to despondency, reading the words of St. Alphonsus above. A priest once told me that ‘God doesn’t expect us to be sinless in this life’. Any thoughts on the matter?
Pat McKay,
I remember those quotes from St Alphonsus’ sermon from when they were published in the Catholic Truth newsletter. I think it was the Education page and it was giving extracts from St Alphonsus’ sermon on mercy and sin, and very different it was from Pope Francis’ idea of mercy and sin. It is terrifying but it’s more charitable to say it straight than to tell lies and pretend that God condones sin in any way.
About “thoughts” on the priest who said “God doesn’t expect us to be sinless in this life” – that is scandalous. If he didn’t expect us to be sinless he wouldn’t have given priests the power to absolve us from sin and he wouldn’t have said “be ye perfect as your heavenly father is perfect.”
Fidelis,
I like your take on ‘telling it as it is’. It reminds me of an old Ukrainian saying…
‘It is better to have the bitter truth, than the sweetest of lies’.
I’m not sure if this is the right link. Its about a Swedish midwife who will not take part in abortions.
European law upholds her right to opt out but she is being victimised for her stand. Please pray for her.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/418499/ask-swedish-pro-life-midwife-about-her-countrys-reputation-tolerance-jacob-rudolffson
There is a SPUC conference in Glasgow at the Mercure Hotel from 9.30 to 4pm. I should have posted this info earlier but all welcome if you are in Glasgow.
This is a petition regarding the midwife that Clotilde mentions:
http://www.citizengo.org/en/30148-swedish-midwife-should-be-allow-conscientious-objection-opt-out-abortion?tc=ty&tcid=16435098
Forgot to give the date of conference . It is tomorrow and should be very interesting as several speakers on a range of subjects. Only £15 with lunch and refreshments included…so if you are free tomorrow, all welcome.
Madame Editor,
I find myself having renewed misgivings about parts of the 1983 Code of Canon Law and I seek reassurance from others who may be able to put my mind at rest.
To provide three examples: I am told by an SSPX priest that I need not confess to having inadvertently taken flesh meat on a Friday, that I need not confess to having failed to fast and abstain on Ember days and that I need not confess to having missed Mass on the Holy days of the Epiphany, the Ascension or Corpus Christi (as long as I attended Mass on the substituting Sunday) as all of these are no longer regarded under Canon Law (1983) as sins. They do not impinge on Faith or Morals and so the SSPX is content to abide by them.
Am I being over-scrupulous in continuing to avoid these (former?) sins or should I lighten up in the interests of the remaining in communion with the SSPX?
Leprechaun,
All the things you list are subject to change at the discretion of the Church authorities. There was never any divine revelation to say we had to abstain from flesh meat or attend Mass on the Feast of the Epiphany et al.
Regarding the Friday fast – the Church law is that we should make a sacrifice of some kind on Fridays; the authorities no longer specify what that sacrifice should be – we can continue to abstain from meat or do something else that is a real sacrifice for us. Preferably that nobody else knows about, according to the Gospel injunction not to let our right hand know what our left hand is doing in the matter of almsgiving (self-sacrifice). We have to vigilantly guard against spiritual pride in the matter of speaking about our spiritual lives and practices. In monasteries, for example, it was always (who knows these days!) a serious fault for the monks and nuns to speak about such things. For someone to reveal an act of self-sacrifice, was seen as a sure sign of pride.
The same applies to holy days of obligation – the Church has always had the authority to change these, add to them, subtract from them, for whatever reason, without there being any sin involved.
So, to answer your question – I would say that to worry about these being “former sins” is definitely over-scrupulous. There is nothing to stop you abstaining from flesh meat on Fridays and ember days, there is nothing to stop you from attending Mass on all the former holy days of obligation, nothing at all. But if you can’t observe the above or choose not to, there is no sin involved.
For something to be a “sin” remember, it has to be offensive to God. If the Church dispenses us from any or all of the above, which the authorities are entitled to do, there is, obviously, no sin. These are all “Church” rules, subject to change.
Madame Editor,
This is just like the old days, when a blogger could ask a question or seek reassurance on an issue of concern, and be sure of receiving an authoritative and orthodox answer from someone. Yes, I know they still can, but nonetheless it was a heart-warming experience.
I am grateful to you.
God bless this blog and all who paddle along in her.
Pleasure is all mine, Leprechaun. Glad to be of a little assistance.
Catholic Truth at your service!
N O T I C E . . .
Would all contributors note that everything relating to the Synod, should now be posted on the Synod Special thread, please and thank you!
Has anyone come across this shocking piece by the liberal blogger Damian Thompson?
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/09/pope-francis-drops-a-bombshell-catholics-can-receive-absolution-from-dissident-sspx-priests/
I’m particularly amused by this piece of garbage:
“Many ordinary Catholics are worried by Francis’s apparent willingness to countenance a softening of the Church’s line on divorce and homosexuality. I seriously doubt whether many Lefebvrists recognise him as the real Pope. In theory, the ‘full communion’ to which Francis refers shouldn’t be beyond reach: Rome recognises the orders of SSPX clergy, which it doesn’t in the case of Anglicans. In practice, the SSPXenjoy not being full members of the post-Vatican II Church – which is why every time a big concession is made, such as the restoration of the old Latin liturgy, they move the goalposts. Personally I would rather they were out than in, especially the French lot. I prefer my incense without a whiff of Vichy. (The only point in their favour is that they don’t stage grisly ‘folk Masses’; I nearly apostatised after attending one on Sunday.)”
What a mixed up guy he is!
Petrus,
Thanks for that. It’s actually dated 1st September, but guess who is first to comment and it didn’t go to moderation! He’ll not be a happy boy when he reads what I’ve penned – I copied it to paste here, thinking it may never see the light of the Spectator blog. In case it’s removed, here it is – I’m none too polite in it, so don’t be too shocked… In any event, I refuse to resign, at least until Sebb Platter (or whatever his name is) resigns from FIFA…
MY COMMENT ON THE SPECTATOR BLOG…
Whoever told Damian Thomson that he is qualified to comment on Catholic issues, should be shot at dawn. Preferably yesterday.
He hasn’t got the proverbial clue. If he read up a bit more on Catholic (recent) prophecies, Church-approved, not the “oddball” variety, he would know that – as long ago as the 17th century – Our Lady foretold the crisis in the Church in our times, and promised that her Son would “send a prelate to restore the priestly spirit”. The only prelate who turned up in the twentieth century and did his best to restore the priesthood, was Archbishop Lefebvre with his SSPX priestly society.
Thompson is a dumpling. He wanted Archbishop Nichols to be rewarded with a red hat for nothing more important than organising the papal visit of the day (Pope Benedict) so well, that it went off smoothly. What a plonker.
So his views on the SSPX are about as important to informed Catholics as his opinion on the weather. Or, as it’s called these enlightened days, climate change.
That he objects to fully believing priests being “allowed” to absolve in Confession for the so-called “Year of Mercy” by a Pope who hasn’t a Catholic thought in his head, while priests living with their homosexual partners and working within the Vatican walls are classed as being “in good standing” , tells us all we need to know about Thompson’s intelligence, never mind his (lack of) Catholicity.
Gerragrip! END.
It’s the way I tell ’em… 😀
Does anyone else have an opinion on Christina Gallagher the Irish seer.I have just been reading on The House Of Prayer Achil site that Our Lady gave her a message saying “I want the Irish people to be my messengers for the world”. I don’t believe any off this and what’s more why would Our Lady choose the Irish who have all but given up religion.If she was a credible seer surely the church authorities would have looked into it.
Morgana,
Christina Gallagher is NOT an authentic seer. All of my Irish contacts are agreed on that. As we keep saying on this blog, please ignore all such claims to visions and messages which do not have the seal of the Church’s approval.
We need nothing except Fatima now, and those inter-related major approved apparitions, such as Quito (17th century, foretelling the 20th century crisis) and Akita in Japan in 1973, which is, in my humble opinion, the gist of the suppressed part of the Third Secret of Fatima which should have been revealed in 1960 – recall “cardinals will oppose cardinals and bishops against bishops” for example.
All the rest – ignore. They are misguided souls, through to diabolical hoaxes – Medjugorje springs to mind in the latter category.
I don’t believe that our Lady has been appearing to her I just thought it was strange if she wants people to believe her why she would have said our Lady chose the Irish.I only believe the apparitions authenticated by the church which contain the true message from real seers.
Perhaps those of us who can afford would consider this appeal?
http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2058-so-do-you-want-the-remnant-to-survive-yes-it-s-that-bad
Crofterlady,
I read that at the Remnant and I do hope they survive, but I noticed that they pay a stipend to their writers and I’m sure that’s a full time job for Michael Matt so he will need a salary. I think these apostolates should be purely apostolates, and people should do them part time. Maybe others will disagree and I’m not even sure I am right myself, but that was my gut reaction on reading the appeal. Chris Ferrara is a working attorney, I’m sure I’m right in saying, so he must be doing the writing part time, why not Mr Matt?
Michaela,
Generally speaking, I agree with you that apostolates should be apostolates and no money, apart from necessary expenses, should ever change hands.
However, The Remnant is a fortnightly broadsheet newspaper and it must take a huge amount of work to keep writing it, editing it, publishing it and distributing it worldwide. Nobody could do that part-time. It takes me all of my time to produce our relatively short, bi-monthly newsletter, never mind a two weekly broadsheet newspaper. Add to that the daily upkeep of their website and blog, and there’s no question that a married man with a wife and family to keep would need to make this his full time employment and his means to earning a living. I’m quite sure their home accommodation will be modest and that there are no private jets in the back garden!
So, I think The Remnant appeal is to be supported, by any of us who can afford to do so. If we ever hear of Michael Matt and his family enjoying month long holidays in the Bahamas, we can think again!
Crofterlady
Thank you for posting that link about the appeal on behalf of the Remnant.
Other intending donors please note that the telephone number is required (as are all the fields) and that it needs to be in the local form (as you would give it to a nearby colleague) and not in the International form. So no “+” sign or twin leading zeros because such numbers will not be recognised.
The Remnant is worth every penny we can afford to contribute. Michael Matt has done a great and selfless job with his apostolate for decades without asking for help, now he needs our support. I for one will see what I can manage to send. Large or small, all donations will count equally before God.
Leprechaun & Athanasius,
I have no doubt that your generosity towards The Remnant will be much appreciated – Michael Matt has put his heart and soul into the work of reporting on the crisis and educating us all in the Faith through The Remnant, so it is wonderful to see such a generous response to the appeal to keep it going – the same applies to the generous souls who have pledged money on The Remnant blog, some of whom, at least, are far from being millionaires, judging by their comments. God will richly reward their kindness.
Thank you Crofterlady for alerting us to this appeal.
Madame Editor,
I was pleasantly surprised to see how few pounds it cost me to donate my fistful of dollars.
I say this to encourage the others.
Leprechaun,
That’s just typical of your good luck. Not like this fellow (?sister?) countrywoman of yours, Mrs O’Reilly, who said:
‘I’m the unluckiest person in the whole world. I bought a non-stick pan and can’t get the label off.’
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
Editor,
As you say, we must support the likes of the Remnant, not to mention Catholic Truth and the Athanasius Foundation Fund, when things get financially tough. Of course you do realise that my donation to Michael means no Christmas present for you this year. Ach well, what do you want with a few diamond trinkets anyway!! I’ll get you a nice card with Christmas rhymes and a sanity clause!
Seriously though, I do hope others can manage to contribute a little something to the Remnant.
Athanasius,
I’m not falling for any of your blarney any more – last time you promised me a “diamond trinket” – a ring, to be precise – I didn’t realise you meant you’d text me a new ringtone for my mobile phone. Honestly, what’s a gal gotta do to get a bit of respect around here? 😀
And I endorse your exhortation to others to “contribute a little something to the Remnant” – and then give the rest to me, marked for the Editor’s New Outfit & Hairdo Fund…
Editor,
What do you give to the woman who has it all? Absolutely right, nothing! I’ve always loved that great get out clause “it’s the thought that counts”. The amount of money I’ve saved is incredible. Not that I have much money in the first place. In the past people have seen a fat wallet and automatically assumed that I’m loaded. It got so bad that I had to remove the picture of my relative with the hump!
Hilarious!
Athanasius,
Your talk of wallets reminds me of an Irish busker who had successfully gathered quite a crowd around him, and concluded his act by saying: “Now, I want you each to take out your wallet, get out a €5 note, put it in your pocket and then pass your wallet to me”.
Many a true word is spoken in jest, but the hard copy of the Remnant gets read and passed around for others to read, and it really does matter that it should be kept going, especially in view of any potential interference with the contents of the Internet by those who would seek to introduce censorship.
Leprechaun,
Very good and oh so true.
An Italian Prelate, a Msgr. Lorenzo Ghizzoni, seems to have had a significant change of heart regarding the SSPX. A local newspaper attributes his move to the fact that Francis has recognised the legitimacy of SSPX confessions, claiming this has prompted a new stance from the Italian Episcopate.
http://eponymousflower.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/sspx-clergy-invited-to-help-in-ravenna.html
Has anyone else seen the report and shocking video at Lifesitenews of the feminists attacking men protecting the cathedral?
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/violent-mob-of-pro-abort-feminists-tries-to-burn-down-cathedral-attacks-pra?utm_source=LifePetitions+petition+signers&utm_campaign=acb3ba973a-Cathedral_to_LifePetitions10_14_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c5c75ce940-acb3ba973a-399330205
Thank you, Gabriel, for posting that story from the Eponymous Flower website. Very interesting indeed.
The following two links from the Remnant should likewise prove helpful to anyone who has to deal with any pertinacious propagators of the “SSPX is in schism” slander. I know a lot of this is very familiar, but the mallet headed calumniators appear to be very, very reluctant to admit their persistent injustice and error, as well as the fact of grave matter concerning the eight commandment.
The second link should prove particularly useful, and informative where needs be, as it is a very comprehensive presentation and rebuttal by the excellent Chris Jackson.
http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/2090-the-staggering-implications-of-pope-francis-year-of-mercy-concession-to-the-sspx
http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/traditional-catholic-answers/item/2043-is-the-sspx-in-schism-a-point-by-point-rebuttal-to-cmtv-s-catholi-schism-video
N O T I C E . . .
I am delighted to announce, on behalf of Gabriel Syme, that he is now the proud father of a lovely little baby girl. She was born on Saturday, and both mother and baby are doing very well.
I know that you will all join me in praying for God’s blessing on this little family.
Great news from Gabriel Syme. All the best for mother and daughter. Praying for you all.
Congratulations! Deo gratias!
Thank you Editor and everyone for the kind wishes and prayers!
Our baby is certainly a big change in our household – an amazing and beautiful change. She is a real blessing and we are very thankful for her.
We are fortunate that she is very healthy – I can personally attest that her vocal cords and bowels are all working magnificently 😉
She came into the world with a good shock of hair already, (likely more than her father in fact!), which made me recall the very hairs of your head are all numbered. She is so tiny, beautiful and soft – a small miracle! 🙂
Gabriel Syme,
We’re all truly delighted about your baby daughter. So much so that I think I can safely volunteer some babysitters for you, and that without any fear of contraception 😀
Petrus for starters, because he is the most experienced of us all with the next generation, although I’ve heard that one word from him, and the kids do exactly what they like… Kidding Petrus!
Second up, Leo… Since Leo has a way with words, he can read her extra-long stories for infants which are guaranteed to put her to sleep in minutes 😀 Kidding Leo!
Pat McKay, Crofterlady, Fidelis and Therese have agreed to work shifts on weekends so that your good wife and yourself can join me pubbing and clubbing as usual – mustn’t let the child rule the roost; that’s what all the baby (and teens!) psychology books say, so see you both, same time, same place on Saturday night… NOT kidding, folks!
In the meantime, we pray (and sing!) thank Heavens for little girls…
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRnbtRPC6v4?feature=player_detailpage&w=640&h=360%5D
Editor
I’m still meditating on Gabriel ‘ s mention of the biblical “every hair on your head has been counted”. Our Lord doesn’t really need to spend a long time on me, does He?
Seriously, congratulations again, Gabriel!
Gabriel and Mrs. Syme,
Congratulations to you both and thanks be to God.
What names have you chosen for your little girl, and if none yet, what names might the bloggers suggest?
Gabriel,
My congrats as well – how wonderful to have a new baby, a daughter! I entrust her to Our dear Lady’s care.
Wonderful! Every child brought into the world is a blessing upon it.
Congratulations Gabriel Syme and to your good wife too! May God bless you all!
How lovely to have some good news for a change! Congratulations to Gabriel and his wife.
Reported in The Remnant:
Finally, after waiting in vain for bishops to confront the Pope regarding his inversion of priorities in Laudato Si, his deserving rebuke came from a female Romanian doctor at the Synod.
Sometimes in history, when men in the Church are too cowardly to do their duty, God shames them by calling a woman to do it for them. St. Joan of Arc and St. Catherine of Sienna come to mind. Her family having suffered persecution by the Communists, this Catholic woman was not intimidated at all by the presence of the Pope and told him precisely what all of us wish we could have. I only hope that this rebuke acts to convict him and all likeminded “progressive” prelates of the scandal their acts have inflicted on the Church and to start carrying out the purpose of their offices.
As Lifesite News reports, Dr. Anca-Maria Cernea, Doctor at the Center for Diagnosis and Treatment-Victor Babes and President of the Association of Catholic Doctors of Bucharest (Romania) made the following speech to the Synod last Friday:
Your Holiness, Synod Fathers, Brothers and Sisters, I represent the Association of Catholic Doctors from Bucharest.
I am from the Romanian Greek Catholic Church.
My father was a Christian political leader, who was imprisoned by the communists for 17 years. My parents were engaged to marry, but their wedding took place 17 years later.
My mother waited all those years for my father, although she didn’t even know if he was still alive. They have been heroically faithful to God and to their engagement.
Their example shows that God’s grace can overcame terrible social circumstances and material poverty.
We, as Catholic doctors, defending life and family, can see this is, first of all, a spiritual battle.
Material poverty and consumerism are not the primary cause of the family crisis.
The primary cause of the sexual and cultural revolution is ideological. Our Lady of Fatima has said that Russia’s errors would spread all over the world.
It was first done under a violent form, classical Marxism, by killing tens of millions.
Now it’s being done mostly by cultural Marxism. There is continuity from Lenin’s sex revolution, through Gramsci and the Frankfurt school, to the current-day gay-rights and gender ideology.
Classical Marxism pretended to redesign society, through violent take-over of property.
Now the revolution goes deeper; it pretends to redefine family, sex identity and human nature.
This ideology calls itself progressive. But it is nothing else than the ancient serpent’s offer, for man to take control, to replace God, to arrange salvation here, in this world.
It’s an error of religious nature, it’s Gnosticism.
It’s the task of the shepherds to recognize it, and warn the flock against this danger.
“Seek ye therefore first the Kingdom of God, and His justice, and all these things shall be added unto you.”
The Church’s mission is to save souls. Evil, in this world, comes from sin. Not from income disparity or “climate change”. The solution is: Evangelization. Conversion.
Not an ever increasing government control. Not a world government. These are nowadays the main agents imposing cultural Marxism to our nations, under the form of population control, reproductive health, gay rights, gender education, and so on.
What the world needs nowadays is not limitation of freedom, but real freedom, liberation from sin. Salvation.
Our Church was suppressed by the soviet occupation. But none of our 12 bishops betrayed their communion with the Holy Father. Our Church survived thanks to our bishops’ determination and example in resisting prisons and terror.
Our bishops asked the community not to follow the world. Not to cooperate with the communists.
Now we need Rome to tell the world: “Repent of your sins and turn to God for the Kingdom of Heaven is near”.
Not only us, the Catholic laity, but also many Christian Orthodox are anxiously praying for this Synod. Because, as they say, if the Catholic Church gives in to the spirit of this world, it is going to be very difficult for all the other Christians to resist it.
Therese,
What are you LIKE?
Crofterlady has already posted the link to the above brave doctor’s address to Papa Francis on the Synod thread. Take your porridge in the mornings, wummin, and you’ll see the difference it makes 😀
Oops. There’s only so much I can read in one day y’know. I see my mistake – I should check out this blog first. Mea culpa x 3.
Therese,
Worry not – you know the old saying, which is very true, that “repetition is the mother of education”.
Still, don’t forget the porridge – it’s one sure way to waken you up in the morning… or so they tell me! I’m a Corn Flakes & Nuts gal, myself. And they also say that it shows – especially the nuts, but I’m not really!
Has anyone heard how Fr Dunn is getting on?
Frankier,
Yes, I’ve heard that Father Dunn was discharged from hospital recently and is making slow but good progress in his recovery. Let’s all remember him in our prayers, as I believe he is suffering quite a bit from the physical injuries sustained in the accident.
Editor
Thanks for that information. I will say a wee prayer for him.
Thank you, Editor, for the information!
I am glad to hear that he is recovering, even if it is slowly…
I still pray at your request to his intention.
Here is some pleasant, uplifting news – a nice change from the heterodox rubbish billowing out of the current sham synod:
The SSPX have admitted 53 new first year seminarians in their seminaries for year 2015-16, as well as 10 young men as postulants to become SSPX brothers. Additionally, 49 young men have entered the pre-seminary stage, where they will study the humanities in advance of their seminary training starting proper.
http://www.dici.org/en/news/society-of-saint-pius-x-53-new-seminarians-for-2015-2016/
This analysis (below) from a blogger discusses the good news and also notes that, in his last year as Archbishop Of Buenos Aires, Jorge Bergoglio only had 28 men studying in his seminary – a two thirds drop off from the numbers he inherited when taking the role in 1997.
https://sarmaticusblog.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/years-of-plenty-for-sspx-continue/
Madame Editor,
Am I alone in being a little confused about being invited to “offer up devotions for the intentions of the pope” when his intentions are clearly so different from those that the Traditional Church would expect them to be?
I came across some guidance about what is meant by “the pope’s intentions” and I thought other bloggers might find it a useful clarification between the apparent meaning and of the real meaning.
The advice is also linked to the gaining of indulgences for November’s Month of the Holy Souls and it may be viewed at this link:
proecclesia.com/image_intentions_indulgences.jpg
I hope others find it helpful.
Thanks Leprechaun – I have found it helpful.
Madame Editor,
Click here to get a forward view of the SSPX Mass schedules for November and December 2015.
It might interest those who are making plans for catering for the family on Christmas day.
Ps: If the coding fails to work, just wait a few more days for the Newsletter which will contain the same information.
Leprechaun (and others)
FYI – I found the mass schedule link above does not work “as is”, it brings up a page saying “Sorry, the file you have requested does not exist.”
However, on that “does not exist” page – if one goes to the browser address bar, it can be seen that the address ends with “/view/”
If “/view/” is deleted manually, such that the address then ends with a “U” – and then return is pressed – then the address does work and the mass schedule can then be seen.
Hope this helps!
For the benefit of attendees of St Andrews, Glasgow, notable mass times are:
Monday 2nd Nov (All Souls) – 6.30pm
Tuesday 8th Dec (Immaculate Conception) – 6.30pm
Christmas day – 10.30am
Gabriel,
Many thanks for your suggestion..
I could not see why the link failed, so I am grateful to you.
No problem Leprechaun!
I confess it was a complete fluke that I discovered how to make it work!
And thanks to you for posting it in the first place, it was very useful.
Whilst on retreat this past July, I came across a book by Fr. Stephen DeLallo, SSPX, entitled “The Sword of Christendom.” It is out of print, but the wonderful ladies who run our parish bookstore found me a used copy. However, two different people, one of them my priest, have since told me that one of Fr. DeLallo’s books was withdrawn from circulation because it had errors in it. Does anyone know if it was the book I purchased (which, by the way, is excellent)? And if so, what are the errors?
Christmasliszt,
Your post made curious and I googled and found a forum discussion claiming that “The Sword of Christendom” had been “taken out of print years ago”.
It does not say specifically what the issue was, but it seems to have been something relating to how the book regarded Judaism.
(I will not link to the forum directly as it promotes “the resistance” – but I googled “Fr. Stephen DeLallo book removed” and it was the second result given).
Thank you GS – there is quite a bit of information in the book about the Jews’ involvement in Freemasonry, capitalism and communism, but none of it appeared to be distorted. In fact, I’ve come across much of it before.
I’m not aware of what problems the resistant crowd said “Sword of Christendom” had, so I can’t comment on that specifically; I do know that in the States the book was popular and widely read in the U.S. for years. I’m also aware that some of the clerics in the resistance were (in my view) unfair critics of Fr. DeLallo’s writings for years, including when they were still with the SSPX; for my part, I’d go the extra mile to confirm anything that source says about Fr. DeLallo’s books.
A timely reminder for everyone(with All Souls feast day on Monday) An indulgence is granted the Christian faithful who devoutly visit a cemetery and pray, even if only mentally, for the dead.
This indulgence is a PLENARY one from November1st through to November8th and can be gained on each one of these days . On the other days of the year this indulgence is a partial one.
This indulgence is only applicable to the souls in purgatory.
A few paragraphs down: “The appalling record of the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales provides a particularly disturbing example of the way in which the rights of parents and children are being attacked from the within the Church.” The article goes on to document some of the scandalous behavior of Cardinal Nichols: https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/94-of-synod-fathers-voted-to-undermine-parental-rights-at-synod
I wonder if anyone has read this article in the Remnant Newspaper.
http://www.remnant.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2127-apocalypse-now-another-great-sign-rises-in-the-heavens
It is true that the 3 wise kings followed the star in the sky at the time that Our Lord was born in Bethlehem. So if in 2016 there signs in the sky that continues into 2017. What then? Will we see the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary? Or, will it be something else?
I saw it, Theresa Rose. Very interesting indeed, but scary also. It seems like 2017 may well be the bigee.
Sorry, the link should read:
http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2127-apocalypse-now-another-great-sign-rises-in-the-heavens
Well that’s very scary, and answers the question I asked on the Holy Souls’ Thread about whether, given the loss of holiness in the Church, the Chastisement is near. This reminds me that Malachi Martin repeatedly said “Look at the sky”.
I had thought it scary too. Our Lady warned Sister Lucia that when she saw strange light in the sky, World War II was about to commence. The world is in a far worse state now that it was back then.
So the only think can do is pray the Rosary, so that the Pope will consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
I have a question regarding Original Sin, specifically the guilt which the Church teaches was transferred to us from Adam. The Jewish Faith and the Orthodox Faith both reject the doctrine of Original Sin, with the latter believing that the consequences of the ‘Ancestral Sin’ are primarily death, sickness, suffering and a disordered will (including concupiscence). The Orthodox teach that only Adam and Eve were guilty as this was their own sin, not ours.
During my Biblical studies, I have noticed that the guilt of Original Sin is never mentioned. In Genesis 3: 16-20 God tells Adam and Eve what the consequences will be, and guilt does not seem to be one of them, only death, suffering etc:
‘To the woman also he said: I will multiply thy sorrows, and thy conceptions: in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband’ s power, and he shall have dominion over thee. And to Adam he said: Because thou hast hearkened to the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat, cursed is the earth in thy work; with labour and toil shalt thou eat thereof all the days of thy life. Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herbs of the earth. In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth, out of which thou wast taken: for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return’.
Likewise, Ezekiel 18: 18-20 emphatically states that we do not inherit sin from our parents:
‘As for his father, because he oppressed and offered violence to his brother, and wrought evil in the midst of his people, behold he is dead in his own iniquity. And you say: Why hath not the son borne the iniquity of his father? Verily, because the son hath wrought judgment and justice, hath kept all my commandments, and done them, living, he shall live. The soul that sinneth, the same shall die: the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, and the father shall not bear the iniquity of the son: the justice of the just shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him’.
However, the texts commonly used to prove this doctrine are 1 Corinthians 15:22 (‘And as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive’.) and Romans 5:12-21 (‘Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned’.) ‘In whom’ is a mistranslation. In the original Greek it states ‘eph ho’, which means ‘because of’, not ‘in whom’. Saying that all have sinned in Adam is quite different than saying that all sinned because of him. In the book ‘God and Evil: The Case for God in a World Filled with Pain’, it states ‘indeed, Biblical scholars have pointed out that Augustine wrongly interpreted this text- that is, he took the ‘in quo’ (from the Greek eph ho) to mean “in whom (i.e. Adam)” instead of “in that” or “because of”‘. This book also quotes Biblical scholar Douglas Moo who says:
‘Perhaps, indeed, Paul has not provided us with enough data to make a definite decision; and we should probably be content with the conclusion that Paul affirms the reality of a solidarity of all humanity with Adam in his sin without being able to explain the exact nature of that union’.
In the Knox Bible it states in Latin, ‘Propterea sicut per unum hominem peccatum in hunc mundum intravit, et per peccatum mors, et ita in omnes homines mors pertransiit, in quo omnes peccaverunt’.
However, this is translated as ‘Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and thus to all men the death did pass through, for that all have sinned’. This does not say ‘in whom’. Knox’s translation states the following, ‘It was through one man that guilt came into the world; and, since death came owing to guilt, death was handed on to all mankind by one man. (All alike were guilty men’. Likewise, in the Romans quote, where it consistently says ‘sin’, Monsignor Knox translates it as ‘guilt’, even though peccatum in English means sin, fault, error or transgression.
St. Thomas Aquinas says this, “An individual can be considered either as an individual or as part of a whole, a member of a society . . . . Considered in the second way an act can be his although he has not done it himself, nor has it been done by his free will but by the rest of the society or by its head, the nation being considered as doing what the prince does. For a society is considered as a single man of whom the individuals are the different members (St. Paul, 1 Corinthians 12). Thus the multitude of men who receive their human nature from Adam is to be considered as a single community or rather as a single body . . . . If the man, whose privation of original justice is due to Adam, is considered as a private person, this privation is not his ‘fault’, for a fault is essentially voluntary. If, however, we consider him as a member of the family of Adam, as if all men were only one man, then his privation partakes of the nature of sin on account of its voluntary origin, which is the actual sin of Adam” (De Malo, iv, 1)”.
Augustine himself stated “there can be no sin that is not voluntary, the learned and the ignorant admit this evident truth”. How can this be. Does Original Sin not contradict free-will and our God given personal freedom? The Catechism states, ‘Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin – an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence”.
Where does this leave babies who die prior to Baptism? Augustine said they go to Hell and Aquinas said they go to Limbo. I do not believe in either of these. Our Lord said ‘But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such’.
CC 5th Session of the Council of Trent, 2:
‘If anyone asserts that the prevarication of Adam injured himself alone, and not his posterity; and that the holiness and justice received of God, which he lost, he lost for himself alone and not for us also; or that he, being defiled by the sin of disobedience, HAS ONLY DIFFUSED DEATH AND PAINS OF THE BODY, INTO THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE, BUT NOT SIN ALSO, WHICH IS THE DEATH OF THE SOUL; let him be anathema.’ (My emphasis).
The Catholic Church, not the Jewish or Orthodox religions, possesses all truth, and is the one ark of salvation for all. She infallibly defined this doctrine, and many others, long before modern biblical scholarship led many into heresy. Earlier on this blog you quoted Orthodox heresy in opposition to Catholic truth. Your soul is in mortal danger if you persist on this path.
I am not denying Catholic Truth (far from it), I am merely using my God-given intelligence to enquire and to think. I didn’t know that was a sin. Trust me, I am NOT entertaining the heresies of the Orthodox, but it doesn’t harm to compare.
However, what do you have to say on Limbo?
CC it might well be a sin to use your ‘God-given intelligence’ to enquire into doctrines long defined by the Church which are ‘mysteries of faith’ and must be accepted by faith. Enquiring into them, especially by studying the sources you mention is to expose yourself to the danger of losing your faith and so is an occasion of sin wilfully entered into. Also, we should beware of the sin of pride if we think our intelligence is so great that it will effectively arm us against all the temptations of the evil one against faith.
The condemned heresy of Pelagius has been resurrected as one of the most evil fruits of Vat.II, with the teaching of the infamous Karl Rahner outdoing Pelagius himself. Arising from modernist liberalism, indifferentism and evolutionism, modern Pelagianism explains much about the current state of the Church, for without original sin the Redemption was unnecessary, and the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is meaningless. The edifice of the faith, in short, collapses.
I agree completely. I would say that to compare Catholic doctrine to the heresies of false religions may well be a sin.
I’ve seen Catholic Convert quote extensively from Scripture before. He mentions his study of Scripture. I’d like to know what and where he studied. It is not allowed for us to interpret Scripture privately. If Catholic Convert wants to do that, there are plenty of Protestant denominations that will welcome you with open arms. Submit yourself to the Church – the sole interpreter of Scripture.
Petrus,
Thanks for responding. There is nothing wrong with healthy study and inquiry with regards to a belief or doctrine. I was not using the Jews or Orthodox to form my beliefs, just merely to see what they believe. Nobody in privately judging and nobody is converting to Orthodoxy. My study would be unhealthy if the aim was to convert to another faith. I studied the Douay Rheims Bible, and this is the Bible I quoted above, apart from where I explicitly quoted the Knox Version in English, Greek and Latin.
What you are doing, though, is interpreting Scripture privately. Banned.
Sent from my Samsung device
But surely everyone who reads the Bible on their own (which I would hope Catholics do regularly) interprets scripture privately? How can they, to a greater or lesser degree, do otherwise?
That cannot, and should not, be “banned”.
I don’t know about you, but I’ve found that generally those with the strongest faith are those who have thought about what they believe in, how it applies to their lives and to the lives of those around them, in the context of today’s world.
Personally, there are various points I struggle with in the Bible, not least the punishments set out in the Torah. Are we to follow them to the letter? If not, why not? I cannot find where Jesus says we should not obey the Law, but I find contradictions with what He preached.
Perhaps that makes me a bad Catholic, or more likely a worse one.
But I do believe that questioning these points, thinking through the issues, makes my faith stronger, not weaker.
And without questioning, probing, resolving, there would be no advances in theology, which would make it a totally dead subject. And I sincerely hope that never happens.
I think you’re barking up the wrong tree with this. It is fine to ask questions in order to gain a greater understanding of the Faith. However, if we study scripture and conclude by comparing Catholicism to False Religions, we know we have gone a step too far.
Sent from my Samsung device
Andrew,
If you find contradictions in what Jesus (God) preached in the Scriptural texts, then you really should seek immediate guidance from a trusted priest/theologian in the matter. I don’t think you are fully aware of the seriousness of your statement. To say that Jesus taught contradictory doctrines is tantamount to blasphemy.
As for private interpretation of the Bible, this is absolutely forbidden to all Catholics. Perhaps what you really meant to say was private reflection on the Scriptural texts in the light of Church teaching, the Church having sole authority from God to interpret divine revelation.
Private interpretation is the error of the Protestants and that’s why there are more than 250 Protestant sects all interpreting the Biblical texts in different ways. They too find contradictions in the teachings of Jesus, as elsewhere in the Bilbe. Why? Because they interpret by their own limited lights rather than by the explanations of the great Doctors, saints and Popes throughout history, who were far more graced by God to interpret than they. It’s a form of intellectual and spiritual pride.
My advice to you, then, is that you disabuse yourself of the notion that you are free to interpret Sacred Scripture in any way, shape or form. You are not free to do so. We Catholics believe all of divine revelation, not by human reason alone but by the God-given gift of Faith, which readily accepts without question the mysteries revealed by God, “who can neither deceive nor be deceived”.
When you have this kind of unquestioning faith, having consulted a little more the writings of the Church’s sainted Scripture scholars, you will cease to “struggle” with all those apparent contradictions in the Scriptural texts, I assure you.
Incidentally, all that theological “questioning, probing, resolving” you speak of in relation to Sacred Scripture was done and settled by the Church a long, long time ago. Sacred Scripture is not open to some kind of evolutionary process of re-interpretation to suit different ages. St. Pius X condemned any such suggestion in his Encyclical Pascendi. Whatever ongoing theological studies of the Bible are permitted by the Holy See, say for a deeper understanding of already revealed and accepted truths, are carried out by qualified theologians chosen and graced for the task, not by unqualified lay people.
CC
I earnestly recommend you study carefully the Catholic Encyclopedia entry on this subject: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11312a.htm
If you read my post above, you will have noticed that I have indeed quoted St Thomas Aquinas from the link which you so graciously provided. God bless you. Nobody is denying Original Sin.
CC,
It seems to me that you’re confusing yourself with all this Bible study; a classic error of the Protestants!
The quotations you provide, particularly those of Aquinas and Augustine have to be read in context with what the Catholic Church has always taught. For example, you quote Augustine as having written that unbaptised babies go to Hell. What you fail to understand is that the Hell he refers to is not the Hell of the damned. Only unrepented actual mortal sin can send a soul to this place of eternal misery. God is not unjust!
So, when Augustine speaks of Hell in the sense quoted he speaks of two regions known as Purgatory and Limbo, called Hell only by the fact that the sous who reside there are deprived of the beatific vision (temporarily in the case of Purgatory).The great difference between these places and Hell proper, is that there is immense charity and joy (amidst the sufferings) in Purgatory and perfect peace and natural happiness in Limbo.
Now, when you say that you do not believe in Hell or Limbo I assume you mean in the context of what the two Doctors wrote concenring unbaptised babies. I’ll take it you’re not denying the Hell of the damned, the existence of which Our Lord referred to many times in the Gospels.
Even so, your denial of Limbo is very worrying and it raises a great difficulty for you. If Limbo does not exist then where did God send the souls of the just of the Old Testament before Our Lord opened the gates of heaven? You see the problem that arises?
No soul entered into heaven before the Redemption, so they must have resided somewhere and that somewhere was Limbo. This is now the place where unbaptised babies go in all cases where baptism before death was possible but not sought. I make this latter distinction because I am aware of Catholic parents who have lost babies before formal baptism could be administered. In such cases the desire was there but not the time, which may well be sufficient for heaven in the eyes of God (see baptism of desire).
At any rate, Our Lord made it perfectly clear that nothing imperfect can enter into heaven. This means that babies under the age of reason who die with the stain of Original Sin on their souls cannot enter heaven (baptism of desire excepted). And since they do not merit the Hell of the damned either, God has very graciously provided for them a place of eternal natural happiness and peace. It makes perfect sense really, just like all Catholic doctrine of the ages.
The Roman Catholic Church has effectively buried the concept of limbo, the place where centuries of tradition and teaching held that babies who die without baptism went.
In a long-awaited document, the Church’s International Theological Commission said limbo reflected an “unduly restrictive view of salvation”.
The 41-page document was published on Friday by Origins, the documentary service of the U.S.-based Catholic News Service, which is part of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Pope Benedict, himself a top theologian who before his election in 2005 expressed doubts about limbo, authorized the publication of the document, called “The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die Without Being Baptised”.
The verdict that limbo could now rest in peace had been expected for years. The document was seen as most likely the final word since limbo was never part of Church doctrine, even though it was taught to Catholics well into the 20th century.
“The conclusion of this study is that there are theological and liturgical reasons to hope that infants who die without baptism may be saved and brought into eternal happiness even if there is not an explicit teaching on this question found in revelation,” it said.
“There are reasons to hope that God will save these infants precisely because it was not possible (to baptize them).”
The Church teaches that baptism removes original sin which stains all souls since the fall from grace in the Garden of Eden.
“NO NEGATION OF BAPTISM”
The document stressed that its conclusions should not be interpreted as questioning original sin or “used to negate the necessity of baptism or delay the conferral of the sacrament”.
Limbo, which comes from the Latin word meaning “border” or “edge”, was considered by medieval theologians to be a state or place reserved for the unbaptized dead, including good people who lived before the coming of Christ.
“People find it increasingly difficult to accept that God is just and merciful if he excludes infants, who have no personal sins, from eternal happiness, whether they are Christian or non-Christian,” the document said.
It said the study was made all the more pressing because “the number of nonbaptised infants has grown considerably, and therefore the reflection on the possibility of salvation for these infants has become urgent”.
The commission’s conclusions had been widely expected.
In writings before his election as Pope in 2005, the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger made it clear he believed the concept of limbo should be abandoned because it was “only a theological hypothesis” and “never a defined truth of faith”.
In the Divine Comedy, Dante placed virtuous pagans and great classical philosophers, including Plato and Socrates, in limbo. The Catholic Church’s official catechism, issued in 1992 after decades of work, dropped the mention of limbo.
Read more at Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2007/04/20/us-pope-limbo-idUSL2028721620070420#ZHLJYSK9aKOay4T1.99
Perplexed
The theological speculations, omissions and representations of post-Vatican II liberal Churchmen are non authoritive writings and utternaces that are by no means weighty enough to unteach the Church’s traditional doctrine on the existence of Limbo. As I said previously, if Limbo is non-existent then what becomes of the souls of the just who died before the Redemption.
Athanasius
Well said. And what is the point of Baptising newborn babies of they are admitted to Heaven anyway?
Sent from my Samsung device
Athanasius,
Regarding what Augustine said, the source I used said ‘Hell’, there was no Hell of the Damned or otherwise mentioned. It did not dawn on me at the time. I definitely DO believe in the Hell of the Damned. You have misinterpreted what I said regarding my belief in Hell or Limbo. I believe in the Hell where sinners go, and I also believe in Limbo as mentioned in the Bible, where Lazarus (the beggar) went. However, Our Lord states that in order to enter we must become as little children, and He also said, as I quoted above, ‘But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such’.
I deny the existence of Limbo for unborn children, aborted babies and those babies who die before baptism. The Church has denounced and repudiated the doctrine. We cannot place boundaries or limits on the infinite mercy of God. As the Psalmist says, ‘Because with the Lord there is mercy: and with him plentiful redemption’. As the document quoted by Perplexed says, this view on Limbo is an ‘unduly restrictive view of salvation’ and ‘people find it increasingly difficult to accept that God is just and merciful if he excludes infants, who have no personal sins, from eternal happiness, whether they are Christian or non-Christian’.
Catholic Convert
Where has “the Church” denounced Limbo? Utter garbage. Only the official Magisterium can “denounce”. Please provide a source to show that the Church has denounced Limbo?
Sent from my Samsung device
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html
This is an interesting document but it does not “denounce or repudiate” Limbo. It is another opinion.
Sent from my Samsung device
You read, understood and digested that document of the magisterium in…TWO minutes??!!! WOW!
It’s the opinion of a theological commission, not an act of the Magisterium lol.
I’ve read it many times. Nothing new I’m afraid.
Sent from my Samsung device
Perplexed
It takes a lot more than a single document of a non-authoritative theological commission to negate Catholic doctrine! The same people who wrote that document will tell you, likewise contrary to Catholic teaching, that it is fine for Catholics to participate in non-Catholic acts of worship. As the Americans are wont to say – Go figure!
CC
I did not misinterpret what you said about Hell and Limbo. If you read my comment again you will note that I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Your statement about belief in Hell and Limbo was not clear, but I assumed and concluded that you meant only in regards to children. I’m very pleased to read your clarification that you do, in fact, believe in the Hell of the damned.
Your understanding of Limbo remains obscure, however. You write that you do believe in Limbo, but only in the Limbo of the just where Lazarus and the other Old Testament saints were detained prior to the Redemption. It does not apparently seem reasonable to you that Almighty God would have created a similar place of peace and rest for unbaptised children.
In this respect you are very much a man of your time, viewing matters more from a natural, emotional mindset than from a supernatural one. In the days before liberalism took hold on this unfortunate world men of the Church understood the absolute perfection of God and the impossibility therefore of anything imperfect being admitted eternally to His heavenly presence. Hence the doctrine on Purgatory and Limbo, which latter, incidentally, has not been formally repudiated by the Church in our day as you claim.
Churchmen today have certainly attempted to undermine the doctrine of Limbo, just as they have undermined the importance of heroic virtue for canonisation with a new fast track process that has seen one Pope canonise more saints in his pontificate than all his predecessors together back to to St. Peter. But this is not repudiation, it is imprudence.
Of course I agree with you, and with them, that the mercy of God is infinite; hence the Church’s teaching on invincible ignorance, baptism of blood and baptism of desire. However, God’s mercy can never conflict with His justice, as a denial of the Limbo of infants suggests.
the Original Sin of our first parents was so grevious an offence against God that it closed the gates of heaven forever to all mortal men, children not excepted. It took the price of the blood of the Son of God to reverse that divine and eternal sentence and to reopen heaven. By your reasoning, however, we would have to conclude that children from the time of Adam have not been in need of Christ’s redeeming sacrifice because God is too merciful to exclude unbaptised children from heaven. In other words, your promotion of divine mercy apart from divine justice leads to the heresy that children up to the age of reason are not dependent for their salvation on the Redemption of Christ through baptism. This is completely contrary to the Church’s perennial insistence on immediate baptism.
No, the truth remains as always that a place of eternal natural happiness called Limbo exists for those inculpable infant souls who die unbaptised. This was the conclusion of Augustine, Aquinas and other Doctors, Saints and Popes before Vatican II That God created such a place for unbaptised children as an alternative to the Hell of the damned, far from undermining His infinite mercy, extols it.
And, as I stated earlier, there may well be even greater mercy shown to those babies whose parents desired formal baptism for their child but had not the time to arrange it before death.
Athanasius, some time ago on this blog I posted a long piece about the topic that you have been addressing here. As usual you have given a flawless and complete exposition that only the wilfully blind, faithless, theologically uninstructed or immature could fail to find convincing. So far be it from me to presume to add anything to what you have said, but perhaps I might suggest a different way of looking at it, the way that enabled my fourteen-year-old self to see that the liimbo of infants is a logical necessity, and that makes the ramblings of those with what you aptly describe as a ‘natural emotional mindset’, theological commissions included, be seen as the wishful-thinking modernist nonsense it is.
Our first parents were created with both natural and supernatural life (called also sanctifying grace). Natural life enabled them to live upon the earth. They were entitled to this as creatures. Supernatural life, over and above natural life, was a free gift of God that enabled them also to live in heaven, which is to enjoy the Beatific Vision, seeing God face to face as He is.
A common figurative expression is to find oneself ‘out of one’s element’. Literally it would mean, for example, being plunged into the deep sea, where, being equipped only with air-breathing lungs, one would be unable to survive. In the same way, a man lacking supernatural life is incapable of living in the ‘element’ of heaven, of seeing God face to face as He is.
Adam and Eve, by their disobedience, lost sanctifying grace and so were unable to pass it on to their children, all of whom are born without sanctifying grace and who remain without the ability to enjoy the Beatific Vision unless it is regained, thanks to Christ’s redemptive act, through the Sacrament of Baptism. But in no way does the condition of the damned resemble that of unbaptised infants. The former have possessed supernatural life and lost it, know they have lost it through their own fault and suffer the pain of loss (hell) for all eternity. The latter, never having possessed supernatural life, but guiltless of sin, cannot suffer the pain of loss, and so must be happy for all eternity. Hence the limbo of infants is a logical necessity and modernist arguments against it are totally spurious.
Christina,
Yours is about as concise a defence of the doctrine on Limbo that I’ve read. Surely that one post, if nothing else, will make Catholic Convert reconsider his position. At any rate, I thank you for it.
Catholicconvert
I deny the existence of Limbo for unborn children, aborted babies and those babies who die before baptism
Where do you think these souls go, then? If they go straight to Heaven, why is abortion such a grave sin? Is the abortionist sending them directly to a better place?
Just wait long enough, Therese, and we’ll see the true worth and value of abortionists recognised and some may be invited to the Vatican for a papal hug!
Athanasius would my understanding of your above post be correct in that parents who already stated they would be having their baby baptised while still pregnant and you would expect that this would be the desire of all Catholic parents to be there may be a possibility that God would consider entry to heaven .
I once asked a Traditional priest this question and he said that Baptism of Desire has to come from the person who is desiring. However, we cannot limit the mercy of God.
Sent from my Samsung device
Morgana
Since a baby cannot of itself make a free choice as to whether or not to be baptised, it is for the parents to desire the Sacrament on the baby’s behalf. This being the case, it occurs to me that the desire being present, should the baby die before formal baptism is administered, the mercy of God accepts the desire in its stead.
This has never been explicitly defined by the Church in relation to infants, I hasten to add. However, the doctrine on baptism of desire does render it a serious possibility.
It’s also worth considering that if a person falls into mortal sin but truly repents of it and desires to confess, his sin is already forgiven by God even before he reaches the confessional. Of course this teaching of the Church by no means dispenses a person in mortal sin from the absolute obligation to receive Sacramental absolution at the earliest opportunity. Rather, it demonstrates the infinite mercy of God towards truly repentent sinners, lest they die before Sacramental Confession can be obtained. In other words, the repentent sinner is forgiven by desire for absolution even before he receives it formally in the Sacrament.
We can surely hope therefore that the same principle of mercy applies in cases where infant baptism is desired by parents, but baby dies before the Sacrament is formally administered.
Catholic Convert, I’d love to help out here but I am on my way to the airport (one hour away) to pick up my daughter. Perhaps Athanasius, Petrus or Leo or anybody could oblige?
Catholic Convert
I am on my phone and running out the door. I would read the papal encyclical “Deus Providentissimus” on how we should study scripture:
http://w2.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18111893_providentissimus-deus.html
NOTICE
editor apologises for her continued absence due to technical problems. She hopes to have these resolved tomorrow and looks forward to returning.
May I ask prayers for Fr. Daniel Cooper (SSPX) who has just undergone a bone marrow transplant. I was quite shocked to read of Father’s illness on the SSPX website as he is quite young and always appeared robust.
Father has preached many sermons and conferences on the Mass and devotion to Our Lady, etc. Here is a flavour of his preaching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWGlB2SaoJM
Please pray that Our Lord will restore him soon to full health.
Of course, Athanasius, I will pray for him.
Me too. Our Lady, help of the sick, pray for him.
Crofterlady and Christina,
Thank you both for your very charitable prayers for Fr. Cooper.
My cousin told me today that there is a sort of “schism” up there in the northern isles. It seems a whole ton of people have left the parish and the conservatives have gone “right” whilst the evangelical wing have gone to the C of E. Is there no end in sight?!
For this ignorant Sassenach, what’s all that about, Helen?
Christina, I don’t know exactly what it’s all about. My cousin has gone offshore for a 3 week stint but I’ll ask him on his return. He did say that the parish wasn’t Catholic.
Helen,
If it happens that any of those disenchanted souls from that non-Catholic parish decide to spend a few days on Stronsay to contemplate their next steps, or, indeed, if any of our bloggers and lurkers are considering passing a few days there, there is a regular Sunday morning Traditional Latin Mass offered at 9.00am and contact details with a useful location photograph can be found here at this link:
http://sspx.co.uk/page_chapel_stronsay.htm
Fr. Nicholas Mary would be only too pleased for the opportunity to cast his net to gather up any lost souls.
Leprechaun, are those priests not outside the mainstream church? Another thing, how on earth would people get there?
Helen
The community split. Some decided to capitulate to Rome with acceptance of all its modernist ideas and they are based on Papa Stronsay as a diocesan outpost of the conciliar Church (a.k.a. the mainstream church).
Fr. Nicholas Mary decided to remain true to Tradition and to stay with the SSPX, and it is to his Apostolate that the web link refers. May God reward him.
As for how you would get there, I think it would easier than getting to Papa Stronsay, not that you would ever wish to go there anyway. You can take the plane or the ferry and there are two b&b establishments in Whitehall village.
Helen, the C of E doesn’t exist in Scotland. Perhaps your cousin means the Scottish Episcopal Church. They have a similar worship to the C of E but as an Episcopalian friend of mine says, “we may be in communion with the Church of England but we are certainly not part of it.”
In Scotland they were usually referred to as the “High English Church” but the piskies themselves hate that term and though it is the third largest Church in the country it is tiny with just over 34,000 members.
Vianney, I always mischievously refer to Episcopalians as “Church of England”, mainly to get a rise out of them 😛 haha!
(works every time!)
I believe they are also planning to ‘solemnise’ homosexual ‘marriages’.
NOTICE
Editor’s technical problems are more serious than first thought. She will therefore be absent from the blog for a little longer.
I think we’ll see even more of this rubbish as the synod results bear “fruit”!
http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/a606cc47d40fea966396166e9ddac686-490.html
CROFTERLADY,
There are no limits on how far some people will go to get a cheap laugh from their friends by escapades such as the one your link instances.
My stock response to those who make it clear that they value their friends more highly than they value God, is to ask them whether those same friends will be at their elbow as their advocates at the hour of their death. No matter what their spiritual state, they all seem to know the answer.
Helen,
Fr. Nicholas has a small guest house which is for rent based on what you can afford. It is very modern and comfortable and recommend it for a wee retreat. (weather permitting!)
Paddy Riley
No garden of Eden is Ireland today
It’s closed by the new “marriage” bill,
They’ve turned to the left in the darkest of day
And crawled halfway up the dunghill;
I know you will like it
When God we rebuff
And made “marriage” equal for all
Oh the grass is all burned around Ballyjamesduff
With that brimstone and fire in a squall
The UN agenda got rid of ‘that’ stuff
Any man can pretend he’s a she
Come back Paddy Riley and marry James Duff
Come home Paddy Riley to me.
My mother once told me it’s a sin to suborn
A nation to sell their birthright
I looked to the pagans who treat us with scorn
And welcomed their ways with delight
Most newborn nations find it is real tough
They fight with their backs to the wall
Not so Mise Eire- she had the right stuff
Her faith was a beacon for all
With this referendum it’s gone with a puff
Well financed from over the sea
Please come back Paddy Riley and marry James Duff
Come back Paddy Riley.
Patrick Healy
Not sure if such a subversive piece of plagiarised (from Percy French) doggerel has a place in such an august blog.
Expecting detention from our hostess.
Waterside,
It has a place all right but I can’t resist warning against falling for the myth that the referendum was won by the YES campaign because of foreign money. Is there a foreign coin, from a shekel to a dollar to a euro, to the humble old UK pound, that would, no matter the amount on offer, cause you to doubt a word of your divine and Catholic Faith? Cause you to vote to legalise mortally sinful behaviour?
The blame lies squarely with the crisis in the Church, caused and presided over by the hierarchy in the first instance, and then with the complicity of the clergy and allegedly educated laity passing on false doctrine and morals in schools. Forget about the funds. That’s a side issue. Or put another way….
There was a young man from Killarney,
Who fell for the American blarney, “money talks” (in this case, it talked rubbish);
He decided to vote YES
Till he heard a preacher say “Joe” (cos that was his name)
If you do that you’ll end up in Hell and regret it, please take it from me;
So, he voted NO instead and says he only hopes Heaven is all it’s cracked up to be!
Lesson 1: never blame the USA advertising – the blame lies within the Church, beginning at the top
Lesson 2: Editor ought to stick to her day job!
Madame Editor,
As this is the thread for everything, permit me to add a light-hearted item in these storm-ridden helmless days:
It is a limerick, as you have alluded to your liking for them:
There was a young man from Dun Laoghaire
Who put forward the interesting thaoghaire
That the shortage of verse
In the language of Erse
Was because it made poets so waoghaire.
[Anon. – but brilliant].
The Salesians have bit the dust. Spread the word: http://www.onepeterfive.com/salesian-missions-promote-masturbation-contraception/
Dreadful, but sadly not surprising. Their magazine ‘Don Bosco Today’ has illustrated their modernist, ever-increasing corruption of youth for many years now.
Prayers please for the souls who have died in yet another disgraceful what appears to be a terrorist attack in Paris may God have mercy on their souls
Morgana,
You just beat me to it. Terrible scenes on the TV news reports.
The warnings of our Blessed Mother at Fatima are being realised before the unseeng eyes of the world. I don’t expect it will be long before there are scenes like this, but worse, filling our screens from Rome – the stated target of ISIS. Will it be Benedict or Francis fleeing over the bodies of murdered priests?
I noted that predictably some reporters were more concerned with worrying that the Muslims in France might be ‘victimised’ rather than with the visible horror and anguish of innocent victims and the countless lives changed for ever. May God have mercy on the dead, and grant them eternal rest. And may the Holy Ghost console the suffering and bereaved, and enlighten the remnants of the Christian world.
I agree, about the terrible scenes on the TV news today. And yes, may God have mercy on the souls of the dead.
Christina,
It does make one wonder if this is part of the chastisements that Our Lady spoke of at Fatima, if the Consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart was not carried out by the Pope and Bishops. The Consecration will be done, but that it will be late – that too she also said.
I note too what you say about reporters being more concerned about Muslims in France might be ‘victimised’ rather than about those who have died in this terrorist attack,
I happened to have a look at the Remnant Newspaper, prior to coming onto this thread. I thought this link to a book written by a Russian in 2006 about Muslims overrunning Europe totally, in effect imposing Sharia Law. And this because of the failure of the Catholic Church of teaching and preaching Catholic Doctrine.
http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/books/the-mosque-of-notre-dame-detail
Now the book is a piece of fiction. Could we really see Sharia Law becoming a fact?
Theresa Rose, I do think that the Chastisement is already upon us, and what we have just seen in Paris indicates what we might expect. Given that ISIS has declared in literature and on social media that it is going soon to destroy Rome, as, they say in one propaganda report, ‘it is the cradle of Western civilisation’ – i.e. Christianity. Paris shows us, God help us, on a smaller scale, how it will be done. Home-grown Islamists, their numbers augmented by those entering Europe among the legitimate refugees, will repeat what has happened in Paris, but they will be in greater numbers. They have boasted, again in social media, speaking of Rome, ‘We are already on your streets’, and so they are – as I saw for myself last time I was in Rome. Pope Francis even praises them repeatedly and invites his Muslim friends into the Vatican. It would be difficult for me not to see the vision of the Third Secret prefigured in the scene in the Bataclan – the bishop in white passing over the bodies of his murdered priests. One thing used to puzzle me in the vision – the shooting of arrows – and then one day on TV there was a short report of how women ISIS fighters were being taught how to use the crossbow.
Revelation, both scriptural and private revelation approved by the Church, points to such events before the end times. The revelations at Fatima, Quito and Akita are well-known, but there is a great deal more, declared ‘worthy of belief’ that is less so, and that builds a frighteningly imminent picture for our own time. I am not sure what part the worst Pope in the history of the Church plays in all this, and I prefer not to think too deeply about it. But I do think that ISIS will have its way in Rome, and in my mind I see a very aged Benedict as the ‘bishop in white’. I hope my known fertile imagination is overdoing it! We can only pray to Our Lady of Fatima that the Consecration ‘which will be late’ will not come after the full working out of the Third Secret.
As for Sharia Law on our streets, well it is already on the streets of many ghettos in towns of this and other European countries, but of course we are not allowed to mention this. Of the steady rise in the proportion of Muslims to ‘white British’ in some of our most ‘diverse’ towns and cities, 68% of the increase is due to the high birth rate of the Muslim population. As Catholics we should encourage having large families for the building up of the Mystical Body of Christ, but I don’t think the Muslim ideal that every woman must have seven children, at least, to build up the diabolical kingdom of a false God whose adherents are the enemies of Christ is quite in the same league, and should not be praised as one of the values common to Christianity and Islam. I believe, as I think many of our American friends do, that Europe will be overcome by Islam, and the train-wreck that is the Middle-East will hasten it more than we could have imagined a few years ago.
PS- thanks for the link to the book’ I’ve sent off for it!
Christina,
I don’t think I would like to read that book and if this is a portrait of the future I hope that by that time, I will have gone to my eternal reward. How about reading” Russian Sunrise” I’ve forgotten the author as have lent it to someone.
Its about the flowering of Russia as a Catholic country after the consecration of Russia by the Pope.
A lovely and optimistic story.
Will do Clothilde. I need a bit of optimism after reading all that private revelation!
Clotilde,
How about Bruce W. Walters, M.D. as the author?
If anyone is likely to be in the area for the following on Saturday 28 November at 11.00 in Newcastle upon Tyne, please do. I would be happy to offer accommodation to those travelling from afar!
Bishop Peter Doyle of Northampton has agreed to come to the Diocese to share with us some of his reflections on the Synod on the Family which he recently participated in as one of the delegates from the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales. Bishop Peter will offer some reflections on the Synod and will then be available to answer questions.
Therese,
Were it not for the fact that I’m way behind with the next newsletter (and a couple of other commitments) due to a series of events (not least my battle with my internet connection) I’d be heading for that meeting.
I’d urge others who can make it, to go along if only to ask Bishop Doyle if he really thinks Our Lord got it wrong about the indissolubility of “marriage” and why he thinks Jesus used the word “adultery” to describe the “remarried” when Cardinal Kasper so strongly disapproves.
Then take a photo for our next edition!
PS – Therese your offer of accommodation for anyone who might attend from afar, is most kind, and well beyond the call of duty. Thank you for your generosity. If nobody takes up your offer, I hope you will manage to submit a report, long or short, anything goes, for inclusion in the next newsletter. It won’t make the December issue but we will find room for it in the next one – February 2016. Make his new year “special”!
Will do Editor – provided I’m not in prison for inciting a riot!!!!
Therese,
We’ll visit you, worry not!
Websites are reporting that Rome has made a new proposal to the SSPX, regarding the resolution of the unusual canonical status of the Society.
Franz Schmidberger, SSPX Superior of the German District, has confirmed the existence of the proposal but says it is still subject to clarification – indeed there appears to be no details of the proposal available to the public yet. The SSPX Superior of the Swiss District has also confirmed news of the proposal.
This is unsurprising news, given the recent trend of developments – such as the Society receiving an official (local) recognition in Argentina, Bishop Schneider saying there is ‘no weighty reason’ why the Society should not be accepted “as is” (following his visits to SSPX seminaries), and Pope Francis’ own comments on SSPX absolutions.
http://eponymousflower.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/rome-makes-new-proposal-to-sspx.html
http://cathcon.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/rome-makes-new-proposal-to-sspx.html?m=1
Gabriel Syme,
Many thanks for this very interesting news about the SSPX proposal. I had a quick tour of the Eponymous Flower blog comments and it is just so irritating to see those “the SSPX must steer clear of Rome” comments with only one that I can recall saying that they were needed, more than ever, “inside the walls” so to speak. NOT, I hasten to add, through agreeing to any acceptance of Modernist beliefs – there is no way Bishop Fellay would do that – but since there are more priests (think Father Clovis) and bishops like Bishop Schneider and Cardinal Burke speaking out now, my guess if the powers-that-be are thinking “Shucks, what’s a couple more?!”
The key thing is that we wouldn’t have to have these endless conversations with people who want to be convinced that they won’t be classed as schismatics if they attend Society Masses. That’s the key thing, it seems to me.
Obviously, if this news is confirmed, we’ll launch a blog thread on it. In the meantime, one lives in hope!
Editor
I predict that the so-called Resistance, in response to this news, will once again crank up its scurrilous propaganda machine to renew their character assassination of Bishop Fellay. These people are as malicious, sardonic and arrogant as NovusOrdoWatch, and equally as good at twisting words to produce phantasms of “evidence.” Moreover, it is laughable that they imagine themselves to possess a superior fidelity to Abp. Lefebvre’s mission, when in fact they have adopted the attitude of schismatics. I’ve been praying Rosaries for their destruction for many months now.
Christmasliszt
VERY well said – I completely agree, although I’m sure those Rosaries were really offered for the conversion of said “resisters” and not their (literal!) destruction. I’m nit-picking!
Yes, you’ve really said it all there. With bells on. With ribbons trailing. Well said. VERY well said!
Editor,
Good point, I meant its destruction as an organization – though I doubt that any converted priests would be allowed back into the Society. Maybe after publicly scourging themselves for six months? 🙂 Apparently, though, there is some considerable cash behind this nefarious group, as one of our priests was offered $40,000 USD a couple of years ago to jump ship and join the Dark Side.
Editor I agree with you on both points – that (i) we can trust Bishop Fellay to be careful and prudent and (ii) that we should also wait for official news about this development from the Society, before accepting it as true.
Gabriel Syme,
At least five notches up the pay scale for you; agreeing with moi is always a wise move in the battle for promotion on here!
In all seriousness, I found it very sad to read the nasty remarks made about Bishop Fellay when the Resistance (to nothing) nonsense first began, and when, in conversation with one of their number, to hear him described as “a rat”. I was utterly appalled.
So, let’s hope and pray that Bishop Fellay is spared more of that sort of nastiness, and that something good comes from this latest proposal.
Just think, for example, of the hard time Archbishop Tartaglia would have trying to refuse the use of one of his many empty churches to the SSPX if their status were to be regularised. Roll on!
Editor
I couldn’t agree more. There’s something really wrong with that attitude “steer clear of Rome”. It’s the Modernist errors we should be steering clear of. A true Catholic has a love of “Rome”. A true Catholic also has the charity to correct the errors of others. That’s why it is so important for Bishop Fellay to be trusted and to carry on doing what he is doing.
Sent from my Samsung device
Petrus,
Well said. A true Catholic does, indeed, have a love of “Rome”. I’m thinking of having T shirts printed to read “Keep calm and trust Bishop Fellay” 😀
Of course, to maximise the “Resistance” market, I could have some printed with “at least a little” added! 😀
Have plenty of tissues nearby if you read the story of this remarkable Catholic couple
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/lessons-of-love-to-be-learned-in-the-life-of-chiara-corbella-petrillo-a-mov
John
That is a most beautiful and moving story – thank you very much for posting it.
Shocking, though, that Italian hospitals/doctors were so ready to offer abortions. Absolutely shocking. There is every likelihood that those same doctors would attend Mass (albeit novus ordo) and approach for Holy Communion. Incredible, that the sense of sin and shame has been all but obliterated in so many Catholic souls, to the point where they can engage in any of the four sins that cry to Heaven for vengeance, and think nothing of it – all in a day’s work, in the case of the wilful murder of unborn babies. Shame on them.
Just in case all our bloggers have spent the day in bed, with the covers over their head, yet another bunch of murdering members of “the religion of peace” have stormed an hotel in Mali and slaughtered anyone who could not recite passages from the koran.
This is the little booklet which our present Holy Father kissed last year.
The followers of this “religion”, we are constantly reminded by the Biased BBC, are in no way connected with these extremist who carry out such atrocities.
The Irish President of America Barack Hussein O’Barma, tells us that ISIS, or whatever name they go under today, are not a threat and are contained. He tells us that the greatest threat the world faces is – Man Made Global Warming.
This is despite the fact that over 30,000 innocents have been raped, tortured, converted, beheaded and kidnapped this year by adherents of mohammed.
Compare that to not one – NOT ONE – certified person who has ever died from the beneficial effects of non existent global warming. Compare this to the excess 40,000 winter deaths in the UK in 2013/14, because they could not heat their homes due to paying for Alec Salmond’s wind mills. Compare this to the one million Germans who were disconnected from the grid because they could not afford to pay their exorbitant electricity bills, which have shot up due to the proliferation of useless wind mills which they must, by law,subside.
Then I read the following and is at any wonder my Irish blood is boiling.
http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/leader-of-irish-bishops-hosts-meeting-in-lead-up-to-paris-climate-summit/
With Catholics slaughtered, with not a word to oppose so called gay (government) “marriage”
with not a word about the slaughter of the innocents in Paris, this idiot Arch Bishop hosts a meeting about Global Warming.
I rest my case.
Waterside4,
This crazy belief in man made climate change is truly diabolical. The money being spent on this baloney is just beyond all reason. Not surprising, though, that the Irish (and other) bishops prioritise it – they are about as Catholic as Abdelhamid Abaaoud.
It is very interesting indeed that there is still a concerted effort by the powers-that-be to distance Islam from the terrorism being perpetrated in its name, and it is little short of astonishing to see the sheep-like acceptance of this propaganda, with the majority of the population condemning “Islamophobia” – the label attached to anyone who happens to suggest that there may be a connection. The minute anyone in any discussion departs from the PC line, that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam, the howls of derision and accusations (of “Islamophobia”) pour out.
And that includes so-called Catholic politicians who think nothing of blasting the Church in public, without any qualification (it’s just all bad, all priests are abusers, for example) while jumping to the defence of Islam at every opportunity, always insisting that “moderate” Muslims are in the majority and these terrorists, if they are Muslims at all, are a tiny minority.
Really, Our Lady must be invoked, as she has requested, through the Consecration of Russia if all of this madness is to end.
One interesting fact. For a couple of days now, I have been giving thought to the possibility of bringing the issue of Fatima and the Consecration to the media. How best to catch their interest and see if we could get some publicity for it. I was thinking how astonishing it is that no major outlets have picked up the story of Fatima and come to the obvious conclusion that – if nothing else – it is worth a try. After all, if the Pope and Bishops offer that five minutes prayer and world peace does not descend, look at the fun they could have ridiculing the Church. Won’t happen of course, we know that. But they don’t. Anyway, just when I was settling down at my computer this morning to get on with the December newsletter, dangerously close to being overdue, I received an email with a link to an article in the National Geographic Magazine, clearly on the subject of a Marion apparition, entitled something to the effect of “Mary…The most powerful woman in the world” and I thought “Brilliant, somebody’s beat me to it.” When I clicked on the link, this much lauded, we must pay attention, article, was about Medjugorje – not Fatima.
The Devil is working hard. We need to work harder.
Editor,
Perhaps you could arrange an interview on the BBC, joining with someone from Father Gruner’s staff, or with one of his regular conference speakers, to discuss both the apparitions themselves and the cover-up? Which might then be followed by a newspaper article, which might then be followed by….
Christmasliszt
Well, I doubt they’d want me and I doubt that I’d be much use. In fact, when I was interviewed by the BBC journalist/correspondent, whatever his title, Alan Little, on the occasion of Pope Benedict’s visit, I gave him material on Fatima, and urged him to do a documentary on it, stressing that the only reliable source IS the Fatima Center, Father Gruner RIP, I assured him, would be more than willing to co-operate. He promised to look into it, and since he had already produced reports on Medjugorje, and because I am certain that he is a man of some integrity (affirmed by another journalist who said he stood out for integrity at the BBC – not too difficult, I suppose you could say!) I’m disappointed that nothing seems to have come of those conversations.
Will keep our thinking caps on, though. Might work (for thee, if not for me!)
Absolutely bang on!! I couldn’t agree more. The media, the government and the World need to know about the apparitions and the content of the three secrets and the apparitions at Tuy and Pontavedra, as well as the other prophecies. How anybody could not be convinced regarding the veracity of the Fatima Apparitions, especially where they relate to Russia, is beyond little old me. The Fatima Apparitions brought me to the Church. How could three illiterate shepherd children make up something like this, and the truth they spoke, on behalf of Our Blessed Lady is far superior to the teachings of any theologian.
I agree also regarding Islam. Anyone who says that this religion is peaceful is, pardon the expression, a dunce. This horde conquered Jerusalem and the Holy Land, Constantinople, the Iberian Peninsula and a large section of Eastern Europe, slaughtering Christians and destroying/ desecrating Churches as they went. Here is an article that might interest you:
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2015/may/nun-islam-is-isis-whoever-says-otherwise-is-a-liar/
http://dailycaller.com/2015/03/16/is-the-islamic-state-islamic-of-course-it-is/
Whilst not wishing to monopolise this estimable blog site, most readers will be aware that I am deeply in to the greatest scientific fraud since Galileo, as we “are out of here” first thing in the morrow for 3 weeks of boiling sunshine in Paphos, here is one more link that ALL Catholics should read.
It is ample proof of the demonic degradation of our once proud Catholic faith.
As (most) of your bloggers will know, the upcoming gathering of crooks and hangers on in Paris in a few weeks for the great Global Warming jamboree, is inspired by the Malthusians who advocate abortion and genocide to “solve” a non existent problem of over population.
It is beyond belief that the main cheer leaders for the IPPC is (my) erstwhile Holy Catholic Church.
If anyone thinks I am exaggerating just look at the gallery of croziered crooks who are calling for “action to save the planet from global warming”
http://www.cfact.org/2015/11/11/on-climate-change-catholic-leaders-must-belive-in-miracles
What this means is that ALL bishops must have signed up (on your behalf) for the greatest scam in history.
It is a promise to keep the approximate 3 billion poor souls throughout the world in abject poverty.
Those who do not have access to real electricity, who cook and heat their mud cabins with dried dung and sticks, who die of malaria due to lack of DDT, who defecate in the open, who do not have access to clean drinking water, and who are not allowed to use their abundant supply of coal and oil to drag themselves into the nineteenth century.
The only one who must be laughing at us all the way to Hades – apart from the Ayatollahs – is Auld Nick.
Tut, Waterside. Global warming is what is causing ISIS to commit all these atrocities. I saw Prince Charles say so on a news-clip yestereve.
I note that the Bishops Conference (Scotland) has today released its report regarding its Implementation of the McLellan Commission recommendations.
http://www.bcos.org.uk/Portals/0/McLellan/Implementation%20Plan%20(Final%20Version).pdf
I have been scanning the report and was shocked at this inclusion, on pg 5 of the pdf file:
“5.iii The one religious congregation which has not voluntarily agreed to abide by the policies and practices of the “Awareness and Safety” manual must agree to adhere to these principles”
Perhaps a long shot, but does anyone know which religious congregation has “not voluntarily agreed” to adhere to the safety manual, and why?
Gabriel Syme,
It’s a wonder they didn’t name the congregation refusing to abide by the policies…
I’ve no idea which congregation that might be, so await news from the Grapevine with much interest!
Gabriel, that link doesn’t work. Can you post the text if you have saved it?
Thanks for letting me know Helen, I dont know what happened but the “.pdf” suffix which is part of the address has somehow escaped being part of the link I posted above.
I found that, on the error page which appears if the link is clicked, adding “.pdf” to the end of the address will make it work.
Or if you go to the Bishops hompage, the report is currently in a prominent front page position; this is the homepage:
http://www.bcos.org.uk
(I would post the report contents but it is 8 pages worth and so likely “too much” for a single post here – I might fall foul of Editor and we cant have that! Also, it is in a ‘report format’ which doesnt copy and past well).
I expect some other readers have seen this announcement from Carmel Books:
http://carmelbooks.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/important-notice.html
Bascially, the SSPX is giving up ownership of the Book seller (which continues with a new owner) and this is said to be as a result of the implementation of “austerity measures”.
I was quite curious about this – is the UK district struggling financially?
It was only in the summer of this year that the district purchased High Grange House, adjacent to St Michaels School in England, as a base for the Oblate Sisters. I expect that was a significant investment and it seems odd that, after such an outlay, “austerity measures” are required.
Why would such a property be acquired if the financial climate was difficult, or is it because of the purchase that money is tight?
I am in no way questioning the judgement of those responsible for finance – rather, I’m just curious as I thought Carmel Books was be a source of useful income for the District and if austerity is required, then why jettison a source of income? Or could it be that the business was proving a financial burden somehow?
Also, the announcement mentions a new District newsletter, Ite Missa Est. Does anyone know how to access this new newsletter – I usually read the newsletters via the UK district website, but (as far as I can see) there has been no new newsletter uploaded since the old format September-October edition (there were some news updates provided by Fr Brucciani).
Gabriel Syme,
In response to your enquiry whether anybody can update you about the SSPX Newsletter following the September-October edition, the November-December issue was meant to be replaced with the first issue of a new Newsletter Ite Missa Est from the desk of Fr. Robert Brucciani (District Superior) and consequently no files were made available for the updating of the Newsletter you usually read.
Unfortunately, the publication of the first edition of Ite Missa Est has been delayed and consequently we find ourselves in no man’s land with no Newsletter at all at all.
However, there is a copy of the prototype Ite Missa Est
which can be viewed at this link here if you have GoogleDrive:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzNXXt0ppu4-aFFuMWdlNWx4ZEU/view
Ps: For the information of Madame Editor, who only wants one Christmas card only (thank you Madame Editor but you really should not bother just for me) there are no SSPX Christmas cards this year as the ordering of them got overlooked in the change over between DS’s.
If the above link (November 23, 2015 at 3:26 pm) to the prototype Ite Missa Est does not work, please try it again but with the last 5 characters ( /view ) removed.
It seems to be something to do with whether or not you have got GoogleDrive on your computer.
Linked very easily to the new newsletter an excellent read
Superb, thanks for that Leprechaun. The link worked for me.
I am very impressed with the new format and I am printing a copy as I type.
It looks like its the idea to move to a style of publication similar to the US district’s “Angelus” magazine (to which I subscribe).
Thanks again.
I forgot to ask Leprechaun: is it the long term plan that copies of the new newsletter will be available for purchase from each SSPX location and / or a mail subscription service?
Gabrielle Syme,
My understanding is that the Ite Missa Est takes about a hundred man hours to write and is costly to print and so a suggested donation of £1 per issue will apply. The online version will be free to download and each edition will be archived for future reference.
I would expect hard copies to be available at the chapels but cannot tell you if they will be available by a mail subscription as it would be necessary to include postage and packing in the cost, and also there would be the need to maintain a mailing list and subscription database.
I will see if I can find out anything more.
Gabriel Syme,
The news about Carmel Books is intriguing.
Unless my memory is playing tricks, Michael Fishwick was one of those who formed the “resistance” group, opposed to Bishop Fellay whom they, laughably, regard as a Modernist.
It may be that the new District Superior is having a clear out, removing the rebels, but then again, I may be wrong. Mr Fishwick may have split from the resistance, I really don’t know, haven’t bothered trying to keep track of that nonsense.
Anyway, thank you for that update, which I’d have missed, otherwise. All very interesting.
I have always found Mr Fishwick very amenable and pleasant, and does a great job running Carmel Books. However, in these two Searchlight Magazine articles, he is mentioned as having far right links:
http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/archive/neo-nazis-the-catholic-church-and-council-property
http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/archive/fascists-join-catholic-traditionalists-at-london-conference
Can anyone verify this? I don’t want to make any defamatory statements. This is an innocent enquiry.
Hi CC,
I agree that Mr Fishwick is always very helpful and pleasant. Like you I had also come across those links but was reassured by the part saying:
We understand that Fr Morgan has been instructed to tell Fishwick to refrain from any public comment about the Society’s affairs and to cease political activity if he wants to keep his job at Carmel Books.
So it would seem that, if he was indeed associated with controversial politics, then it is part of his past.
(And, of course, we should remember that “Searchlight” is not a centre-ground organisation and is heavily associated with trade-unions and the far left, groupings which traditionally are no friends of Catholicism).
I bet the congregation that didn’t sign up is the monks on Papastronsay.
Interesting Helen – why do you think it could be them? I had not even considered them and figured it would be one of the failing orders full of groovy elderly members stuck in the 60s!
It will be interesting to find out anyway.
Gabriel, It’s just a feeling I have as they are certainly not treated like other orders. They seem only to be used when the SSPX rear their heads! Also, I looked up this site and they are not listed!
http://www.religiousordersscotland.org/ourstandard.asp?pageid=81
Fr Hunwicke (Anglican Ordinariate) reports on the latest ‘magic circle’ antics from England:
The Bishops’ Conference [of England and Wales] … ”
” … requests that the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei review the prayer Pro Conversione Iudaeorum in the Solemn Liturgy of Good Friday in the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, in the light of the understanding in Nostra Aetate of the relationship between the Catholic Church and Judaism”.
…………………
I find it extraordinary that whoever originated this move is unaware that the current (as from 2008) form of that Prayer comes directly from the pen of Benedict XVI himself
…………………..
A Conspiracy Theorist would probably wonder if this is part of an attempt to get rolling a movement for dismantling the Magisterium (and dishonouring the memory) of Benedict XVI; and for derailing the current rather promising rapprochement, under the direction of Pope Francis, between the Vatican and the SSPX
http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/the-bishops-conference-of-england-and.html
Gabriel Syme
Very interesting. I was highly sceptical of the Ordinariate but the more I read about them, the more I think they could be useful allies!
Sent from my Samsung device
I agree Petrus. Fr John Hunwicke is an impressive man, it was a real boon for the Catholic Church that someone of his calibre decided to cross the Tiber.
I occasionally read his blog and, from a few previous articles, it seems clear he is sympathetic towards the SSPX and Archbishop Lefebvre. He has reviewed some of ++Lefebvres writing and pointed out the obvious absurdity shown by comparing the treatment of the SSPX by some Prelates, with the glorification of protestantism from the same. (He seems to have been forced to remove some of his posts regarding ++Lefebvre, notably his initial commentaries on “They have uncrowned Him”).
Although I have no direct experience of them, my impression of Anglican Ordinariate Catholics is that they are more orthodox than much of the novus ordo world and their liturgies are superior to the novus ordo too.
I know Fr Hunwicke does much to help the Latim Mass Society in England, as a celebrant and also teacher of both latin liturgy and language. In Scotland, I understand that Una Voce view the Ordinariate as useful allies too (though the Ordinariate is small in Scotland).
The Ordinariate does have a superior liturgy, no doubt. After all, they are former Anglo-Catholics, who are no stranger to a Roman Chasuble, or even a Fiddleback. Some even use Gregorian Chant and celebrate Benediction. Obviously for them and their compatriots the 39 Articles aren’t worth the paper they are written on.
Spending 3 weeks here in roasting purgatory of Pafos near St Paul’s (scourging) pillar.
Missing Scottish cold. My arthritic toes (son and heir says it’s gout), are cured by this awful Global Warming.
Mrs Waterside’ s arthritic neck and back are miraculously cured as well.
No wonder Aprohedity liked it here.
As usual much impressed by the standard of comments from all contributors on here.
I regret I do not posses such an academic level of excellence as exemplified by the rest.
Keeping my nose to the ground as I am apt to do, a piece on Irish tv website made me look up, as it
proves how far down to Hades the land of my birth has gone.
It is not so much the article exemplifies my point, but the whole tenure of the writers propaganda is reminiscent of the Popes propagagation of the great Mann Made Gobal Warming scam
In other words we are supposed to feel guilty/sympathetic to their twisted version of the truth.
http://www.rate.ie/news/special-reports/2015/1124/748829-blog
Are you OK Waterside? Has the global warming overheated the brain? Links featuring, inter alia, ads for itchy dog skin problems are a bit off topic tha knows.
Christina,
I’m at that age now, where I thought I’d missed something and didn’t like to say! Thank you for that!
Well spotted Christina, it was just a test to see if anyone reads my rubbish.
You are correct as always, and a big mae culpa.
The temp here in Cyprus has dropped down to 21c. So hopefully me auld heid will be a bit cooler today.
I left a bit off the end of the link. Try the new one below for an inkling of the current state of Irish religious degeneration and the authors angle on same.
http://www.rte.ie/news/special-reports/2015/1124/748829-blog-limerick-school-religion/
Waterside,
Mr Drury, being English, must know perfectly well that in England RE is (or certainly was when I was teaching there) compulsory, so his child would NOT have been able to opt out.
Enjoy your holiday – sounds punishing!
A Happy and Blessed Thanksgiving to everyone at Catholic Truth! Let us give thanks to God for our great and glorious Catholic Faith.
DOTF,
Many thanks for your Thanksgiving greetings to us, even though we don’t celebrate the day, except in spirit with our American friends. Yes, we do, indeed, unite in giving thanks for our wonderful Catholic Faith.
Enjoy your celebrations and don’t be a stranger – we need you here… big time! I took a quick look at your own excellent blog the other day, but haven’t had time to comment anywhere (including here) for days due to being late with our bi-monthly newsletter. It’s now at the printers, so am catching up with the website and blog at last and delighted to see you here, alive and kicking.
God bless and, once again, Happy Thanksgiving!
Gabriel Syme and others,
The new SSPX Newsletter, Ite Missa Est, can now be obtained on subscription for anyone who is not able to pick up a copy from an SSPX Chapel or Mass Centre and who prefers a ready-made hard copy rather than printing one out.
The link below points to a form for taking out a 6 monthly subscription:
http://sspx.co.uk/image_IME_subscription_form.jpg
It can be printed out and snail-mailed to the address quoted, or it can be scanned and e-mailed using the address which is also quoted.
This link can also be found on the SSPX website on the “District Superior’s Letter” page.
Thanks for that Leprechaun, much appreciated.
So the options are either buy a hardcopy from SSPX Chapels or subscribe via paper mail?
I will definitely be reading this – I have found SSPX publications are a good read.
Madame Editor,
Heigh ho. It is one of those days . . .
Forgive me for making so many references to the SSPX revised format Newsletter Ite Missa Est but the prototype has now been superseded by the definitive version, and I am told that hard copies will be available for sale this coming week-end.
Here is a link to the finished version for November-December:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzNXXt0ppu4-aXJaZVRDaHpyeUE/view
Ps: The post above refers to a link but in fact all that is necessary is to do a left mouse click on the form itself.
Sorry for all the quesitons Leprechaun – is the intent that people can download each issue for free, or alternatively purchase a hardcopy? (I will probably do the latter).
Gabriel Syme,
Not a problem at all.
It can be downloaded for free, or bought for a £1, or subscribed to for 6 months at £18 including P&P.
At 56 pages long it should keep you occupied for quite a while.
Thanks!
While on the subject of good SSPX reading, the following link gives details of a great new site on the life and works of Archbishop Lefebvre, to be launched on November 29. I’m looking forward to it.
http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/launch-new-site-marcel-lefebvre-12629
Thank you for that alert Athanasius, I look forward to the website launch.
I read the new SSPX newsletter and was very edified to see Fr. Brucciani joining a vigil outside on of those clinics! That is great news.
He has also designated a day for the White Flower appeal. Now that is very good news. I know that many members of SPUC are attending the SSPX Mass in London and surrounding areas. I have just read an excellent article in ‘The Fatima Crusader’ by Stasia Vogel called,” The War against Life”
It puts the case for all to work for the end of abortion and how it has resulted from the changes in the church’s teachings over thelast 50 years.
I will have a go at downloading it but not right now.
A quote from John Kennedy, seven days before he was assassinated,
“There is a plot in this country, to enslave every man and woman and child. Before I leave this high and noble office I intend to expose this plot”
Margaret,
That IS good news about the new District Superior being at a vigil outside an abortion clinic. Wonderful.
I’m not so sure about the White Flower appeal – that was in place before Fr Brucciani’s arrival, but due to the ambivalent (to say the least) attitude of SPUC to sex education in schools, I would prefer our support went to Abort67.
Anyway, a big welcome to Fr Brucciani – he seems to be full of energy and ideas.
Can you explain what you mean by the ambivalent attitude to sex-ed in schools. I think that you may be out of date on this and SPUCs teachings. Have you looked at their web-site? SPUC Scotland has had a big change in personnel too and doing great things.
SPUC in London have fought relentlessly fought against the so called womens reproductive rights at the UN with success and supported the African and Indian Bishops in keeping them out of these countries.
Clotilde,
Well, when I appeared on The Big Questions a couple of years ago, I was seated beside a young girl who was there to represent SPUC. She wasn’t ambivalent at all, but said they gave the safe-sex message in schools (not a verbatim quote but that was the sense of it.)
I later rang SPUC and the person I spoke to on the phone said they were aware of this, had had other complaints. They were looking into it, but I couldn’t get a straight answer about what their approach was in schools. So, I moved from thinking that SPUC were in favour of the safe-sex message to giving them the benefit of any doubt there may be that wasn’t obvious to me, and considered them to be ambivalent.
I’ve not visited their site for a while, so I’m glad to take your word for it that they are now clearly against sex-education in schools. However, apart from Catholic schools where they may be trying to keep up the appearance of giving the Church’s message on this, I can’t see them being given a platform in non-denominational schools and they are, remember, a non-denominational organisation.
I have met one young man who now works for SPUC (London, I think) who is a traditional Mass-goer, so perhaps, as you say, things have improved and if so, I’m very glad to hear it.
Madame Editor,
Hear hear to your welcome for Fr. Brucciani as the new District Superior.
He is very proactive about keeping the faithful in the picture with developments and issues concerning the SSPX District (GB and Scandinavia). He does this with a new e-mail service to Friends and Benefactors, and he invites the faithful to submit their e-mail addresses to him in order to get on his list and participate in the updates.
He asks them to e-mail him at district.uk@fsspx.email
It might help to include “Friends and benefactors e-mail subscription list” in the subject line.
Ps: The Advent Sunday launch of Ite Missa Est is an unusually big edition and a suggested donation for it is £2.00 – buy one, if only for a souvenir.
Leprechaun,
Yes, Fr. Brucciani is certainly getting to grips with SSPX affairs in the UK. May Our Lord bless his efforts abundantly. Hopefully, we can all make the effort to help out a little more financially in the coming year. It’s a big District to run and the present income and outgoing money figures are way too negatively disproportionate
John Smeaton on the Synod on the Family’s final report
October 26, 2015October 29, 2015
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John Smeaton, co-founder of Voice of the Family, was interviewed this morning on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, about Voice of the Family’s deep concerns about the final report of the Ordinary Synod on the Family which has just concluded in Rome.
His interview can be listened to above or on Voice of the Family’s new YouTube channel.
Here are the concerns which Mr Smeaton raised about a number of issues in the Synod’s final report, including on the question of whether or not divorced and “remarried” Catholics could receive Holy Communion:
Catholic teaching on marriage and the Holy Eucharist and its reception
1. Catholics believe, because Jesus Christ Himself taught, that marriage is indissoluble and, Jesus taught, if someone divorces or puts away their spouse and marries another, he or she commits adultery – which is considered a mortal sin, the kind of serious sin by which one cuts oneself off from God’s love. (Matthew, 19)
2. Catholics believe, because Jesus Christ Himself taught, that in going to Holy Communion we receive the body of Jesus Christ, God Himself: we receive life and the promise of eternal life. (John, 6:54)
3. Finally, Catholics believe the teaching of St Paul that if a person eats and drinks the body and blood of Jesus Christ unworthily, we don’t receive life or grace, we eat and drink judgement to ourselves “not discerning the body of the Lord”. (Corinthians: 1,11.29)
Mercy
4. Catholics believe that the whole of the teaching of Jesus Christ is about mercy including the demands of the Gospel: God’s commandments which Jesus announced or confirmed. Catholics believe that Christ’s message is not just for a select few. We believe that everyone receives from Christ the grace to live in the way God wants us to live.
5. Catholic teaching is not that following Christ is easy. Christ taught that we have to carry our cross and He promises that He will give us the help we need to carry that cross.
6. I know lots of ordinary Catholics both in my family life and through my work. I know women and men who’ve been deserted by their spouse for another person and either left alone with children or left alone without their children. If that deserted spouse were then to see their wife or husband with a new partner, receiving the Body of Christ in Communion, that sends the message to everyone, including the children, that marriage is not indissoluble after all. This is destructive of the truth about marriage. It’s also damaging psychologically and spiritually, not least for the children.
7. Jesus Christ told the woman found in sin, who was perhaps caught up very deeply in a way of life which appeared to be impossible to escape: Go and sin no more.
The Pope
8. I believe, as all Catholics believe, that the Pope is Peter, the rock Christ chose on which to build His Church. The Pope serves the unchangeable truth of Christ’s teaching. The Pope is not the master but the servant of the truth. The difficulty for Catholics with this particular document from the Synod of Bishops is that it doesn’t properly reflect Catholic teaching: It’s ambiguous and confusing.
Other aspects of the final report
9. The Church teaches that certain actions are wrong in themselves – or “intrinsically evil” as the Catechism of the Catholic Church puts it: such things as contraception or in vitro fertilisation. This is not made unambiguously clear in the Synod document. This shows a lack of mercy because it denies Catholics the truth about right and wrong. It denies Catholics the knowledge they need to exercise true freedom, freedom from sin.
Text agreed by the Synod on Communion for the divorced and civilly remarried
10. Paragraphs 84 – 86 are not clear and the way is left open to bishops opposed to Catholic teaching in this area to give the green light to sacrilegious communion. The paragraphs refer to “exclusion” practised in liturgy and of priests accompanying interested parties on a path of discernment according to the teaching of the church and the orientations of the bishop. Catholic teaching, however, is that the truly merciful opening to Holy Communion with all mortal sins, not just sins against marriage, is repentance and a firm purpose of amendment. Confession does not provide Catholics with a license to sin: it provides grace to repent and amend one’s life.
Why is a pro-life leader engaging in work on the Family Synod?
11. Many pro-life campaigners are Catholics, many are not Catholics. Whether or not we’re Catholics evidence indicates that two things most protect unborn children: those are laws against abortion and the institution of marriage. Goverment data show that unborn children are 4 to 5 times less likely to be killed by abortion if they are conceived within marriage. Catholic teaching, the teaching of Jesus Christ, upholds the indissolubility of marriage. We must defend our Catholic faith against all ambiguous or misleading representations in order to defend the human and Divine institution which most protects unborn children.
John Smeaton speaks out clearly on the Church’s teachings
Clothilde,
The issue was not about John Smeaton speaking out clearly, or otherwise, on the Church’s teachings. The issue was about what SPUC representatives say on the subject of sexual behaviour in schools. I’ve paid a flying visit to the new site, which is certainly impressive, but can find nothing at all on the matter of sex-education now – what was there previously has been removed.
Perhaps they are no longer accepting invitations to speak in schools, which is definitely preferable to implicitly (or in the case of the girl on The Big Questions) explicitly supporting the safe-sex message. Of course they should be leading the battle against sex-education but the pro-life movement in general tries to play down its Catholic roots in the hope of not offending the non-Catholics among them. Big mistake. If we tell God we don’t need Him, He leaves us to our own devices. Hence the lamentable failure of the pro-life movement in general, to make any real difference – they all appear to accept that the law is the law and it’s here to stay, with the exception of Abort67.
I suspect that the SSPX continues to permit the White Flower Appeal because a member of their congregation (in London I think) works for SPUC. Personally, I would prefer to support Abort67 (and have told said member of London SSPX congregation!) because Abort67 appears to be the only activists really making a difference in the matter of abortion. John Smeaton, at least when I was receiving his daily bulletins, which I don’t any longer, was focusing on other issues, mainly homosexuality, so I had the impression that they were giving up on the abortion fight, to a greater or lesser extent. I know people who used to support them financially who stopped doing so some years ago because they felt the money was being squandered on things like glossy literature.
Anyway, maybe their new upbeat website is signalling a return to what they were set up to do – fight for the unborn child, without apology. Here’s hoping.
The problem is, immoral sex education is a pro – life issue. Therefore, it is a dereliction of duty for SPUC to avoid it .
Sent from my Samsung device
“The Catholic Church’s pastoral ministry, when it practices mercy, must begin by remedying the poverty of ignorance, by giving souls the expression of the truth that will save them.” – Bp. Bernard Fellay
Recently Cardinal Marx in Germany said that the German synod wouldn’t wait for Rome to make a pronouncement on the matters that the Synod addressed. If Cardinal Marx meant that the bishops of the German hierarchy needed no direction from the Synod because they intended to do what the Church has always done and taught, then there would be no cause for concern. What the Cardinal is clearly indicating, however, is that the Germans are for the Germans and have no desire or need to be subject to anything originating south of the Alps. This line of thinking does have a well-established German pedigree – it started in a public way not quite 500 years ago in Wittenberg.
Catholics who find themselves in irregular living conditions are obliged to adjust their situation to conform to what Christ obliges; our Lord said that those shepherds who teach another Gospel are hirelings and wolves in sheep’s clothing. It is false to say that it is too much to ask divorced and remarried couples to stop living as husband and wife, as this example illustrates.
Nearly 20 years ago my wife and I converted to Catholicism; after two years she apostatized and reverted to Protestantism, then divorced me for being a traditional Catholic. The marriage is valid and a sacrament; there are no grounds for an annulment; for over 15 years I’ve lived the life of a single man while honoring my wedding vow. I should be glad for a drop of compassion from Cardinal Marx and his confreres, but I am cautious about being optimistic. If I were permitted to ask His Eminence a question, it might be, “Would someone please do me the kindness of explaining why it is too much to ask someone to remain celibate after divorce?” I’d be glad to hear a meaningful answer from the progressive crowd.
One grows weary of hearing talk about clemency for the divorced and remarried with seldom a word of consideration for those Catholics who keep their wedding vow of fidelity after being deserted by a spouse. How benevolent is it for the progressive shepherds to come up with pronouncements that vitiate the efforts of the faithful who’ve struggled to carry their cross – who honor their wedding vow and live a celibate life in a world that hates and ridicules purity?
The Kingdom of God is worth every sacrifice. A spiritu fornicationis, Domine, libera nos.
Benedicamus Domino!
Wurdesmythe
Well said – a million times over.
Your account of your own situation reminded me of a conversation I had some years ago with one of our readers who lives outside of Scotland – I say that to protect her identity, as I’ve heard, sadly, more than one similar story, although this one is easily the worst. Her husband was a parish activist and had an affair with another parish activist (gives a whole new and decidedly unsavoury meaning to the laity being actively involved).
Anyway, after a very long married life, her husband eventually abandoned our reader and their grown up children, to go and live with his new “partner”, while remaining in the parish.
Unbelievably, the adulterers continued with their parish work and – can you imagine this, because it knocked me for six when I first heard it – this abandoned wife had to sit in the pew at Mass and listen to her priest publicly thanking the pair for all they were doing to build up (!) the parish community.
The rot is very deep right now. It is hard enough for those of us born and raised as Catholics and for someone like myself, unmarried, who doesn’t have to suffer as that lovely abandoned wife had to suffer but it must be twice, at least, as hard for someone like yourself, Wurdesmythe, a convert.
You might take comfort in the knowledge that, as the great St Teresa of Avila said, by permitting such suffering to an individual, God is treating them/you as a very strong soul. Not sure those were her exact words, but that’s what she meant 😀
One last thing: Cardinal Marx, Kasper and all the rest who approved that Final Document, with its recommendation to permit adulterers to receive Communion, (“case by case” is tantamount to saying “go ahead”) assuming that it is accepted by Pope Francis, will, each of them, (and the Pope) share in the guilt of the sin of those who are living in adultery and compounding their sin by receiving sacrilegious Communions. Those who think this is all over if and when the Pope publishes his sympathetic Exhortation are absolutely wrong; it won’t be over until Judgment Day, at which time they really will come to understand the truth about God’s mercy.
Our benighted president, quite at home in the French Revolution and the Paris Commune, and quite uncomfortable with the Western Civilization created by the Catholic Church: [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIKC1AaJci8&w=560&h=315%5D
RCA Victor,
Obama is becoming ever more widely regarded as one of the worst-ever USA Presidents, right across the population in America – or so I hear…
The die-hard Obama cultists are still imbibing the Kool-Aid. The population of America, on the other hand, is of a mixed mind – and it depends on how one defines the population: the 30 million or so illegal immigrants from central and south America adore him because he clearly wants them to bypass all existing law and attain citizenship overnight – a great coup for the Democratics (akin to Labour in your neighborhood), who will acquire a much larger constituency with the snap of a finger.
I used to be a regular supporter of spuc. I stopped supporting them at the time of the redefinition of marriage debate and legislation. The spuc website gave two definitions of marriage – one for the muslims and one for the rest of us. I attend the London sspx church and I am appalled that they still support spuc.
Nora Day
That’s very interesting. I hope you share that information with your priest when you can – I think they ought to be fully aware that some of us are taken aback that they are permitting a collection for SPUC.
My reading list isn’t getting any shorter….but I keep getting older….http://www.pcpbooks.net/prestashop/index.php?id_product=89105&controller=product
RCA VICTOR
Thank you for the link but the cost of P&P to bring books over to the UK is often greater than the cost of the book itself.
Not that that would matter to someone as rich as Victor Borge.
As requested, I’ve included a few notes from the public meeting which took place with Bishop Doyle in Newcastle yesterday. About 100 people attended, the vast majority (judging by their comments and or silence) appearing to be in tune with modernism. The people in front of us were Guardian and Tablet readers, and from the rather loud conversations around us before the start there was a general touchy feely/pink and fluffy/management speak flavour. Lots of “interfacing”, “touching base”, “walking the pathway” blah blah. My heart sank.
Bishop Doyle, who was most courteous and pleasant, began by saying that he would break his report into 2 sections, in between which he would take questions. He explained the group in which he was placed, which comprised delegates from various countries. He said that “one can’t say anything about marriage and the family without lighting the blue touch paper”. He said that there had been many “hugely touching personal stories” from invited speakers, and his group was tasked with finding “a bridge to make connections – how do we find a language to speak of marriage between a man and a woman?”. “How can we uphold the teaching of the Church and yet have compassion….” They discussed the challenges, vocation and mission of the family. He then produced an “intervention” which was to be put forward from his group. One sentence of this caught my attention: “Loving parents rarely exclude errant children from the family table..” He said that he did experience some irritation with those “conservative” members of his group, but must remember that they too loved the Church. [ This is of course an extremely abbreviated report.]
He then asked for questions. I said that I was afraid that he would find me, too, irritating, because I was astonished that he would equate loving parents not allowing their naughty children to eat at table, with grave sinners being allowed to receive Holy Communion – if that was what he meant? I also asked if adultery and serious sexual sin were no longer mortal sins?
Bishop Doyle said that if I would wait until the end he hoped that my questions would be answered, which I was quite happy to do.
He then discussed the Process, and mentioned that Pope Francis had told delegates not to worry as “I’m responsible for unity in the Church…”
They discussed how we are to “accompany those who are having difficulties”… There was no question of any doctrinal change – the real problem was the “issue of accompaniment, however the final document prepared did not state whether public sinners should – or should not – receive Holy Communion.
Responding to a question from the floor, the Bishop stated that homosexuality was “too complex” an issue to discuss in the time left – this needed considerable study, BUT we must always keep the “principle of accompaniment” to the fore.
Questions from the floor included:
the place of ‘wimmin’ in the Church, and how they could do so much more…. (this received applause – especially from the priest sitting next to the lady who spoke)
“How can celibate priests talk convincingly about marriage…”
“Isn’t it time for marriage priests…”
“People at the meeting had family members who had broken families – they’ve been abandoned by the Church… what can we do to bring them back…”
“Pope Francis is the best thing since sliced bread….”
My brother posed the following to the Bishop: the Prodigal Son left the mire and the pigs and returned to his father rather than remaining and dying in misery and having his body (ie, his soul) cast into the pit. He returned, begged and received forgiveness. That is all we are asked to do. Much is made of the mercy of God (which is, of course, agreed). However, the same Jesus who offered salvation also proclaimed (in a rather authoritarian way) that those who refused to leave their sins would be condemned thus: “depart from Me ye cursed into the fires of hell prepared for the devil and his angels”. Bishop Doyle demurred from the term “authoritarian”, preferring “authoritative”.
To say that we felt isolated and estranged from the rest of the people in the Cathedral would be an understatement. There was one other person who spoke like a Catholic (about the evil of pornography and the Church’s response to this plague), and he was a young man whom I recognised as attending the Latin Mass.
One final point. Bishop Doyle stated that for many years he had no real conception of what personal holiness was – it was only when he found a personal relationship with Jesus that he discovered this!!! I noticed that he, along with the noisy neighbours behind me, spoke of Mary, and Jesus. This may be a small point to some, but it sets my hackles up when people refer to “Mary” rather than to The Blessed Virgin, and “Jesus”, rather than to Our Blessed Lord. I find it unwarrantably familiar, and, dare I say it, Protestant. But no doubt I’m being irritating again.
Therese.
That’s a great report and the bishops saying your questions will be answered later is just typical. That’s what they do when they don’t want to answer.
I think it’s great that you and your brother challenged at the meeting. That’s what they are not used to, IMHO.
Glad you’re back Margaret Mary – I’ve missed you!
Therese,
That was a brilliant piece of apostolic work on your part, your brother’s part and the young man whom you recognised as attending the TLM. Fantastic.
The Bishop’s fob off with an assurance that your questions would be answered (in due course) is a classic strategy, a tactic to avoid answering. I’ve seen it so often at in-service courses as a teacher. I would now insist, as nicely as possible, on an answer upfront. One in particular such in-service day stands out in my memory. It was an in-service course for Heads of RE and parish catechists, to discuss the then new Catechism of the Catholic Church. A priest from the Catholic Education Service (England) led the day and used a flip board and pen to write up our questions – can’t recall all the details but I remember a couple of us asked some “awkward” questions about how the CCC would affect teaching programmes since the CCC carried a clear statement that this was the text now, the official text, for teachers and priests in teaching the Faith and it reiterated quite a few doctrines that had been noticeable by their absence from teaching programmes and textbooks in recent years – for example: Original Sin.
The list grew and grew, and, remember, the priest (Fr Andrew something…slips my mind right now but I know it well) told us at the outset that these questions would be used to lead us through the day.
Yet, when the list was complete (with many contributions from the two or three of us who were orthodox) he said he would return to it before the end of the day. Never did, of course! The rest of the story of that particular in-service day makes rivetting reading but I’ll keep it for another time! See, we can all play at that game!
So, well done for not letting the modernists go unchallenged.
The Bishop’s comment about homosexuality being a “complex” issue is a disgrace. Either, Doctor of the Church, St Peter Damien got it right or he got it wrong. In which case, he ought to be de-canonised and his title of Doctor removed.
As for the Bishop’s comments about personal holiness – unbelievable. Obviously, he does not believe that Christ is to be found in His Church, in the Sacraments. We need to pin these people down to spell out precisely what IS the nature of this “personal relationship” with Jesus, because if it’s what it sounds like – a kind of sugary, nice feelings when in church or a feeling of exhilaration when singing or listening to Shine Jesus Shine, that’s pure and undiluted Protestantism. There is no relationship with Jesus at all, not remotely, in someone who is not one hundred per cent committed to Christ’s teaching and the authority of His Church. None. Zero. Zilch. There may be an emotional attachment to this nice man called Jesus, but nothing more. That’s not a “relationship” with the Son of God – that’s downright silly.
Anyway, Therese, great work and thank you so much for posting that report here. I wish I could have been there, but you did so well that I can answer that last question from the floor – it’s not Pope Francis who is the best thing since sliced bread but our Therese!
Brilliant – with bells on, Therese! Cheque in post!
I thought this was very interesting news. The Scottish Government is trying to bury all information that would show the dangers of the Named Person Scheme. http://www.cfnews.org.uk/CF_News_2114.htm#5b
The Belfast High Court has ruled that Northern Ireland abortion law is “incompatible with human rights”.
Currently, termination of pregnancy is only allowed if a woman’s life is at risk or there is a permanent or serious risk to her mental or physical health.
The Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission (NIHRC) brought the case to extend abortion to cases of serious foetal malformation, rape or incest.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34963159
Gabriel Syme,
I saw that on the TV news earlier – just shameful the lengths the pro-abortionists will go in order to achieve their aim.
Please can someone tell me if we can have the certainty that we are saved? I was always under the impression that presuming upon our salvation was a sin. However, in my Bible study, I have come across certain quotations from Scripture that would contradict this:
1 John 5:11-14- And this is the testimony, that God hath given to us eternal life. And this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son, hath life. He that hath not the Son, hath not life. These things I write to you, that you may know that you have eternal life, you who believe in the name of the Son of God.
John 3:16-17- For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.
Acts 16:31-32- But they said: Believe in the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Romans 10:9-10- For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
John 10:27-29- My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them life everlasting; and they shall not perish for ever, and no man shall pluck them out of my hand.
Given what these Scriptures say, can we be certain that we have salvation from God?
Catholic Convert,
Of course we have the certainly of salvation – if we are keeping God’s law and remain faithful to His teachings which come to us through the Church. There is no guarantee of salvation for anyone else. That’s a given. We are warned by God Himself that His ways are not our ways, and so we follow the examples of the great saints who kept a healthy “fear of the Lord” in order to avoid presuming that we will go straight to Heaven.
Perhaps this short article will clarify the matter for you.
I notice that you fixate on Scripture and do not appear to research, cite or quote from the Fathers of the Church. Remember, Scripture requires interpretation and as St Augustine put it, “I would not believe in the Scriptures if I did not first believe in the authority of the Catholic Church” [which gave us the Scriptures, remember.]
Tradition and Scripture have equal weight within the Church. Check both when you are confused. That way, you will cultivate a Catholic sense. At present, you appear to go in for private interpretation – which is an entirely Protestant custom.
CC1,
In support of Editor’s advice (“Of course we have the certainly of salvation – if we are keeping God’s law and remain faithful to His teachings which come to us through the Church.”), I heartily recommend this sobering monograph by St. Leonard of Port Maurice, “The Little Number of Those Who Are Saved”: https://olrl.org/snt_docs/fewness.shtml
RCA Victor,
We published that sermon of St Leonard in our newsletter not so long ago. Sobering, indeed.
Here’s some more news to verify the success of the “reforms” of Vatican II. Not only do we not have a single seminary left, but check out the fate of the former St Peter’s, Cardross – click here to read more…
Here’s some very good news indeed – Father Gruner’s last book, Crucial Truths To Save Your Soul, is now available to read, free, online. Click here
Madam Editor,
Your latest newsletter on sins of impurity is really sobering stuff. It reminded me of one of my favourite hymns – ‘Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence’.
A really haunting rendition of this can be found here, the stuff of goose-bumps….
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-4nuLjkIPk?feature=player_detailpage&w=640&h=360%5D
Pat McKay,
That is very haunting. I’ve never heard of it before.
We never hear any talk about impurity any more right enough. I think it’s not “cool” to preach or teach about it these days now that everything is legal in the eyes of the state. No wonder Catholic youth are going off the rails like everyone else in their age group.
Canon Fee (former pp of St. Bede’s, South Shields) once told me…..’impurity is like poison in the soul’….
Amen to that.
Pat,
Thank you for that – haunting it is, and “the stuff of goose-bumps”…
A Catholic friend once told me that even if the Pope is the Anti-Christ, we still have to obey him. Is this correct? I never heard of this before until my friend mentioned it.
CC,
Did it not occur to you to ask your friend just how likely it is that an “anti-Christ” would exhort us all to follow Christ’s teaching and the natural moral law? NOT REMOTELY LIKELY. Won’t happen. He or she clearly doesn’t have a logical mind. I hope he’s not teaching Maths!
And as we have said on this blog, ad naseum (but you still don’t seem to get it – maybe doesn’t spring to mind but train yourself so that it does) no Catholic is, or ever has been or ever will be, obliged to accept false teaching even if it comes from a pope. And since no “anti-Christ” is ever going to promote the teaching of Christ but will obviously do the opposite, the problem doesn’t arise.
It really is very simple.
Ed, fortunately for all, I don’t teach Maths, but I did kinda get the impression that this Pope, via HIS recent Synod, was pushing a bit for a wee departure from Christ’s teaching and the natural moral law. Just saying. 😕
Christina,
And I have “just said” – a million times – that unless and until we get a pope who imposes his heresy formally on the Church, we cannot claim that Christ has failed in His promise to protect His Church from error. He never claimed to protect individual popes from believing whatever they choose, but He promised to protect the rest of us from the false teaching of bad popes.
Not really sure how I can make it any clearer. I think my reply to CC was very clear on the key point that when asked if we are obliged to accept the teaching of an anti-Christ, the obvious answer has to be that we are not obliged to accept false teaching from anyone, popes and anti-Christs included.
If I am still not making myself clear, please do not hesitate to say so and I will insist on access to the Forth Road Bridge – not by car, just to jump off!
Ed, now that’s an empty promise if ever there was one. You know very well that the Forth Road Bridge is closed 😀.
Christina,
Very funny. But if you notice, I did say I would “insist” on access to the Forth Road Bridge (deep down hoping they would refuse, I have to admit!)
Still, keep trying, our Christina. One of these days you just MIGHT catch me out, Cappa Magna notwithstanding 😀
Editor, the Forth Bridge is out of bounds. Just saying…
Helen, the Forth Bridge is open, it’s the Forth Road Bridge that’s closed.
Vianney,
Also, the Kincardine Bridge is still open – LOL!
Helen,
I refer you to my response to Christina – you lot just keep on trying and trying to catch me out. When will you realise it’s a losing through to lost battle?
Anyway, I had a call from my solicitor today telling me that if I wanted to buy the Forth Road Bridge he could get it for me for a song. I’ve applied for singing lessons 😀
Editor, the Forth Bridge is still open if that’s any use to you.
Vianney,
With friends like you, who needs enemies 😯
Before you launched into an uncharacteristic rant, you may, or may not have noticed the three key words, ”is this correct’. Now, when my friend mentioned it, I thought at the time, ‘this sounds strange, has she ever read the Book of Revelation, and what happens to the Beast and his followers?’ Obviously I know that we can’t obey him you tatey, if he’s the anti-Christ, my own common-sense dictated that, I just wondered if there was an obscure pre-Vatican II doctrine that I hadn’t heard of.
CC,
Why is it, that every time any blogger here, myself included, gives an answer to a question that may be or may not be forthright, we’re accused of delivering a “rant”? It’s a daft word to use anyway, because it is defined as “speaking or shouting” in a passionate way. Not writing. Given your tendency to literally interpret the Scriptures, I thought I’d mention that. No thanks required. All part of the service. Seriously, though, if you don’t like the answer to a question, just say so. Don’t say it’s a rant, ‘cos that’s daft. And anyway, for the record, if I want to rant, I’ll rant. Big time.
Now, I did see your question: “is this correct”… You need to read my answer/rant again, as I think I made clear that YOUR response to such questions needs to be embedded in your brain, so that you needn’t come here and risk being ranted at, so to speak (ungrammatically). As soon as someone says “do you need to obey the pope if….” Your default position/reply MUST be – the only time we are required to obey any pope is when he is teaching what Christians have always believed, at all times, for two thousand years, and that everywhere. Any apparent “new” dogma, must be (and to date always has been) traceable to what has always been believed and a good, relatively recent, example of that is the dogma of the Assumption of Our Lady. We published a very long article on this some years ago so if you have a bit of time on your hands, see if you can find it in our archives (Newsletter page, click downward arrow and go and make a cup of tea while it downloads – takes a bit of time, as there is a lot of content in there…)
Telling adulterers that they can take the “mercy” of God for granted and approach for Holy Communion is a total break with what Christians have always believed, at all times, everywhere. So, we must resist such false teaching, as earlier Christians resisted false teaching. That answer needs to be embedded in your brain CC, otherwise, you’ll allow your friends to sow seeds of doubt in your mind. No adjective, note, before “mind” – I’m trying to be kind during Advent – back to normal after Christmas 😀
CC
It’s fairly well accepted that Anti-Christ will not be a Pope, he will be a secular individual who will apear from obscurity claiming to be divine. Anyway, that’s for the end of the world, which is not now.
Athanasius,
That’s interesting. How do you know that? I’m interested to learn more about this “anti-Christ”.
Lily,
I’ve been reading the Catholic encyclopaedia on the anti-Christ after reading your question to Athanasius. The Protestant websites have loads of stuff but it’s always hard to know what is reliable and what is not, so I thought I would post the link to the Catholic site. It’s quite basic.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01559a.htm
Fidelis, the last bullet point on that link alarmed me!
Christina,
Don’t let that last bullet point alarm you, it was quoted as an erroneous Protestant proposition.
The theory of a Papal-Antichrist simply doesn’t stand up, and there are two reasons for this. The first is that a Papal-Antichrist would give the lie to Our Lord who promised that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church. The second, more practical, reason is that Antichrist could hardly claim to be the real Christ if he assumed the role of Christ’s Vicar on earth. The Papal-Antichrist theory is a total nonsense.
Thanks Athanasius, I should have read it more carefully first time 😕.
Christina,
Yes, I’ve made that mistake a few times myself!
Hi catholicconvert
I think your friend was just using hyperbole to make a point. Was she being negative about you criticizing the Pope?
3littleshepherds,
You could have a point. But that would be a “Beast”(ly) thing for her to do!!
Athanasius
I envy you because you’re laughing and I don’t get it. I’m thinking it’s a pun. I’m from Texas you know.
Nothing wrong with Texas – they have great hats there!
3LittleShepherds, I recall you were one (or three!) of our best bloggers some time ago but other duties called, and you’ve now signed up with a different email address since you don’t have your lovely avatar. The avatar is attached to the email address you use when you choose your avatar, so I suggest you either return to using the previous log in details and email address or else find that picture and visit http://en.gravatar.com/ again.
Great to have you back – we missed you!
3littleshepherds,
Just ignore me, it’s my strange Scottish sense of humour.
Hi 3littleshepherds,
I echo what Editor has said – great to see you back on the blog!
🙂
Hi Gabriel!
Thank you very much. I remember this blog is especially cheery at Christmas with all of the caroling and eggnog, jokes and fun. So I’m looking forward to that.
Editor
Thank you. If only the ladies wouldn’t wear their cowboy hats to Mass!
Athanasius
We should start to use the word “beastley” over here. It says it all. How do say this word in latin?
Lily
No one really knows a lot about this individual. What is known with some certainty is that he will ape Our Lord in as much as he will appear from obscurity claiming to be the true Son of God. The difference between him and Our Saviour however is that he will not be truly incarnate of Satan, since incarnation is impossible to all but God. Rather, he will be a mere mortal, the illegitimate son of a false virgin, who will be FULLY possessed by Satan.
He will almost certainly be Jewish in lineage in order to convince the masses that he is the fulfillment of the Scriptural prophecies. No Biblical scholar, Jew or Gentile, would accept a non-Jewish Messiah! He will perform wonders that will convince a global majority of his divinity, but these apparent miracles will be superficial displays limited to the angelic order, way short of the divine power. Still, they will be enough, as I say, to cause the majority to believe in him.
Once accepted, he will reign over the world in the most brutal manner, especially as regards those who refuse to worship him. He will put an end to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and persecute Christians to death, and all who refuse his mark, that is, the sign of his number on forehead or right arm, will be forbidden from buying or selling even basic food to stay alive.
As Our Lord had many forerunners; the Prophets, Patriarchs and Saints, each displaying particular virtues that would be collective and magnified in He who is their source, so Anti-Christ has had his forerunners in the most brutal despots of history. He will combine within himself all their wickedness and more, magnified to a degree of evil never before witnessed on earth.
Furthermore, though he will claim divinity for himself, seating himself in the Temple of God, “as if he were God,” his reign will be entirely secular. I think even this basic understanding of Anti-Christ rules out a future Pope as candidate.
Still, we shouldn’t think too much about this future event because at the end of the present crisis in the Church and the world we know that Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart will triumph and a period of peace will be granted. Only following that undefined period of peace will Anti-Christ arise, the world will again fall into apostasy and then the end will come for all at the judgment of the last day.
Athanasius,
That’s all really very interesting. I am pleased to read your final words, though, because that’s what I always think when people speak about the anti-Christ – that Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart will triumph. That keeps the hope alive. I agree with you that we shouldn’t think too much about the anti-Christ in the future. I know some people worry about it but that’s wrong. Great post, thank you for it.
Here’s the latest on the Named Person scheme. It just gets worser and worser!
No thread dedicated to the Jubilee Year of Divine Mercy? Wonderful atmosphere in Rome for the opening ceremony, pity you won’t join us, but…the door is always open.
No, silly, the door’s NOT always open. Google, Holy Door, Jubilee Year, blah blah.
We didn’t launch a thread yet on the Year of Mercy (I’m sure we had one before when it was first announced) because we kinda thought the feast of the Immaculate Conception showed God’s mercy to perfection, so to speak, but then we’re all different.
And there’s not much mercy for the critics of Papa Francis – there are already calls on day one of this “Year of Mercy” for them to be excommunicated. Laugh? I thought I’d never start.
Editor
If Pope Francis excommunicates all his critics, who will be left for him to deride as self-absorbed, Promethean neo-Pelagians? Fundamentalists? Pharisees? Triumphalists? Gnostics? Moralistic quibblers? Catholics? (OK I tried to sneak that last one in there…)
Silly me, indeed, by the ‘door’ I meant the door of God’s mercy is always open, not the actual holy door(s) of the Jubilee Year. Sorry for the confusion!
Perplexed,
We’ve posted a thread on the Year of Mercy (see, your wish is my command!) so feel free to contribute over there at “No Mercy For Critics of Pope Francis”
And I thought I would post a suggested avatar from you – this is how, rightly or wrongly, I think of your good self…
https://giftsandcollectiblesgalore.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/question-mark-face.gif
Caption to read: “How can I catch out these Catholic Truth people on this topic?”
Just a thought!
It’s fantastic, how do I add it?? You don’t really think I’m out to catch you out, do you?
Perplexed,
First save the picture onto your computer where you will be able to locate it when required in the process To save, right click on the picture above and select “Save picture as…” then select your pictures folder or in whatever folder you want to save it.
Secondly, visit https://en.gravatar.com/
Thirdly, follow the simple instructions, download your picture when instructed and, if it is the same as last time I used it, you will be presented with two versions in front of you, one on the right with downward/upward etc arrows to allow you to make sure the picture is the way you want it to look on the blog (i.e. without the head cut off, that sort of thing!) The version right in front of you changes as you adjust the arrows, so that you can keep checking it. You will be asked to confirm that this is the avatar you wish to keep to which you reply in the affirmative.
That avatar will then be attached to the email address which you used at Gravatar, so make sure you don’t forget to use the same email when you log in here – otherwise the avatar won’t appear.
Then log in here again, and post a comment (TEST will do… or CT is great, long live CT!) and you will see that your avatar is there. It won’t show until you click “post comment”.
Note: you can also just click on “change avatar” in your dashboard, where you have the Mystery Man avatar in the top right hand corner. That will take you through to Gravatar and you can begin the process there. It really only takes minutes.
And to answer your question, well, when you (and you’re not the only one) seem to only come on to criticise our humble selves without engaging in meaningful conversation – e.g. not answering questions but throwing out a criticism and then disappearing – what else are we to think? Let’s hope that changes now – a new avatar, a new beginning. You know it makes sense 😀
Hi, Editor! I have tried several times to apply the avatar, but wordpress says my e-mail blocks some of their e-mails, so…I’ve given up, but it’s on my desktop!
Just one question I want to ask you before Christmas: is there anything at all about the post-Vatican II Church that meets with the wholehearted approval of the Catholic Truth
community?
Perplexed,
I’m disappointed about the avatar, I can’t understand that. Can only suggest that you invent a new email address just for this site and use that to log in/attach avatar. OR, just a thought, have you tried clicking on the Dashboard Mystery Man, where it says “change avatar” (or words to that effect) and that will take you right through to where you need to be at Gravatar. That might be easier.
To answer your question, is there anything about the post-Vatican II Church that meets with our wholehearted approval – of course there is! We approve of everything, but everything that was taught prior to Vatican II and continues to hold good. That is, the entire deposit of the Faith. We approve wholeheartedly of that – and that’s what matters, init?
Does than answer your question? Or, put another way, howzaboutthatthen? 😀
I don’t know if anyone ever reads the blog of Lawrence England, whom I believe is a parishioner of Fr Ray Blake? I look in occasionally.
He has had me in fits of laughter recently with his humorous coverage of Francis, which provides much needed comic relief.
Some recent examples:
Solemn Litany of Pope Francis
(Some of my favourite excerpts from it:)
Pope Francis, converter of the Papacy, Ora Pro Nobis
Scourge of self-absorbed, neo-promethean pelagians, Ora Pro Nobis
Remedy of religious with hearts as sour as vinegar, Ora Pro Nobis
Hope of Heretics, Ora Pro Nobis
Elation of Masons, Ora Pro Nobis
Arch Enemy of those who would sit in the chair of Moses, Ora Pro Nobis
Ceaseless adherent of the up-thumb, Ora Pro Nobis
Jack-in-the-box of the God of surprises, Ora Pro Nobis
http://thatthebonesyouhavecrushedmaythrill.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/solemn-litany-of-pope-francis.html
Papal Plane Joke
(The link includes a pic of Francis grasping a microphone, during one his notorious aeroplane interviews)
Q: Whats the difference between Pope Francis and the military?
A: When the military drop bombshells from 35,000 feet, they strive to use precision and limit collatoral damage!
http://thatthebonesyouhavecrushedmaythrill.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/papal-plane-joke.html
Papal Insults Decoded in the Light Show
Captions for pics from the recent “St Peter’s Basilica Light Show”
http://thatthebonesyouhavecrushedmaythrill.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/papal-insults-decoded-in-light-show.html
Laurence England can be sooo funny. I liked his Mr. Men synod characters. We have some of these books at home and I don’t think I’ll ever be able to read them in the same light! I’ll always associate Mr. Brave with Bishop Schneider and Mr. Tickle with Cardinal Kasper!
I would like to ask prayers for Fr. Anthony Wingerden (SSPX) who suffered a badly broken shoulder and some cuts and bruises in an accident yesterday. Father has a very great devotion to Our Lady and her rosary, so it was no coincidence that the devil tried to wipe him out on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception.
Please also remember Fr. John McLaughlin in your prayers, who now has so many additional duties to assume while Fr. Wingerden recovers.
Athanasius,
Thank you for that alert. I’ll certainly be keeping Father Wingerden in my prayers, for what they are worth.
Athanasius,
Thank you for that information. I will offer prayers for both these good priests who are worth so much.
Susan and I are in Walsingham so we will offer our prayers for the intentions of both fathers Wingerden and McLoughlin.
Thank you all for your promise of prayers, I’m sure our two priests will be extremely grateful.
Athanasius,
Please find here an update on the progress of Fr. Wingerden:
Thanks for that, Leprechaun. Much appreciated.
Leprechaun,
Thank you for this update.
I visited Fr. Wingerden in hospital tonight and he is, as Fr. McLaughlin said, doing well. He still has a way to go however, much pain and discomfort yet to bear. He is very much resigned to God’s will and is bearing his cross with great patience. I told him of people’s prayers for him and he asked me to express his gratitude to all for their great kindness.
Hello Editor,
Is this avatar blurry on a computer screen? It works out okay in it’s large form.
3LittleShepherds,
It’s a very clear avatar – brilliant. I take it you have created it yourself, as it’s a new one on me. Excellent.
Editor
Thanks. I tried a few transparent children of Fatima kind of projected onto St. Peter’s but I chose this one instead. Gravatar cropped off most of the basilica, I don’t think I proportioned it very well.
I have some questions about being late for mass, I would appreciate any advice:
I was late for mass last Sunday, due to the weather. I had been “caught out” by a severe frost and it took me ages to defrost the car (I could barely even get the car doors open, at first!). And so I was late.
When I arrived, there were a few people standing at the door. At first I joined them, presuming no seats were available. But then other latecomers appeared, who went inside and so I did so too (it turned out there were some seats available).
When we entered, if memory serves, the priest was reading announcements (prior to his homily etc) and so the mass was not technically in progress.
Latterly I wondered – was this wrong? Were the people outside other latecomers who decided to stand at the door so as to not disturb those inside, out of respect? Is this the correct thing to do if one is late for mass? (it is exceptionally rare that I am late, in my defence).
I was just concerned it was crass or disrespectful of me to enter like this, though I tried to avoid making noise etc.
It turned out I was much later than I estimated I would be – the priest had already finished the (latin) gospel and was doing the announcements and homily form the pulpit. He did read the epistle and gospel again in English.
My understanding was that, to fulfil your mass obligation, you had to hear the epistle and gospel – does this mean during the latin mass itself, or does it also count if you hear it in English from the pulpit?
Sorry if these are silly questions. I grew up in the novus ordo Church and the main danger about arriving late there is that you might be trampled by all the early-leavers coming the other way haha! 😉
Gabriel Syme,
We were always taught that if we missed the Gospel, we had missed Mass.
However, you didn’t miss the Gospel (that you missed the original Latin reading is irrelevant).
The thing is, in any case, these are not normal times, so the normal rules are – of necessity – much more flexible. I had the same problem with de-icing my car, last Sunday, although I made it in time, but if I hadn’t, I would not have worried about it because while we have an obligation to attend Sunday Mass, the diocesan authorities have an obligation to provide Masses for us, and in all the confusion today, the bishops, since they are refusing to train priests to provide Traditional Masses in our local parishes, hold the responsibility for those of us who are unable to fulfil our obligation. We have good theological reasons for taking a conscientious stand about not attending the novus ordo, given that two of the most senior prelates said on its introduction, that it “departs from Catholic theology of the Mass, both in its whole and its parts.” Even if I were so late that I’d missed the Gospel, assuming that I was not late deliberately or through careless inattention to the time, I would consider myself to have attended Mass, and would make a point of reading the Epistle and Gospel privately later.
About the people at the back. Some may have been late and not wanted to cause disruption, but there is one young family where the parents stay in the porch because they feel their children (all very young) might distract the congregation. They travel a long way to attend the Mass and probably just get in with minutes to spare, or a little late, which adds to their concerns about disrupting the peace.
But, be assured, it’s not at all disrespectful to enter late. It’s difficult getting to the Society chapels these days – the Glasgow chapel is in an awkward place for parking, for starters, and those coming by public transport have quite a bit to walk, all uphill (from all directions!) So, please never feel that you have to wait at the back. You are likely to have to step over people to get a seat, as most people on the end of the rows seem to be (literally!) attached to their seat at the end of the row, but, apart from that, you should be able to find a seat, even if you are unavoidably late.
Laughed at your concluding paragraph, but must correct one thing: there’s no such thing as a silly question. Except on some of the TV quiz shows which I gave up watching because, well, they DO ask the silliest questions. I know that because I knew none of the answers! 😀
Thanks a million Editor!
For one thing, I have learned to check the forecast before going to bed on a saturday night!
Your teachers had it wrong, Ed. To fulfil the obligation of hearing Mass, one had to be present for the Offertory, the Consecration and the priest’s Communion. The Gospel belongs to the Mass of the catechumens, none of which was essential to the Sacrifice.
Some years ago when working in London, I sometimes took the opportunity to attend 1:00pm Mass at St. Charles Borromeo (Ogle St.) on weekdays.
My jaw still drops in disbelief at some of the things I witnessed there. For example, the same faces would drift in off the street, just in time for Holy Communion. As soon as they had received Communion, they were off out again. Now, according to the Catholicism in which I was brought up, one had to be present for the entire Liturgy and wouldn’t have dreamed of leaving the church while the celebrant was still on the altar.
I’m sure the pp must have been aware of this, yet no word of reproach from him. He was quite happy to entertain it.
Pat McKay,
I know exactly what you mean. I’ve seen that lots of times, people leaving right after Communion. I think priests are very afraid to confront issues, they just go along to get along most of the time. It’s very bad example for the young people in the churches so they really should speak about staying for the whole of Mass and praying while there and not going up for Communion if you are in a state of mortal sin.
I remember a priest in the main church in Portobello stating that on Sundays you should be at Mass from beginning to end (and by end he meant the last verse of the final hymn.) He said that while the Church said that you had to be present for the Gospel and the priests Communion in order to fulfil the Sunday obligation, this was only meant as an exception for those who worked on Sundays, like nurses, firemen etc. and was not meant as a common practice.
Vianney, see my comment to Ed above. The obligatory part begins with the Offertory. Not that anyone would dream of deliberately missing any of the Mass, but it’s useful to know this if you cannot help being late as Gabriel Syme was.
Pat McKay, I think weekday Masses are different. Those coming in for Communion may have been office or shop workers on their lunch break and not able to attend the entire Mass. I remember that at the lunch time Mass in Edinburgh Cathedral the priest would distribute Holy Communion before beginning Mass. This was for workers who couldn’t stay for the entire Mass while the retired etc, would receive during Mass.
Vianney, I was an office worker myself in nearby Great Portland St. These weekday Masses only lasted about 20 minutes. To my mind, it just wouldn’t be worth attending if I couldn’t spare a mere 20 minutes out of a one-hour lunch-break.
To drift in for Holy Communion and then go straight out again surely is unethical, to say the least.
Well I was brought up to believe that a body should be present for the whole Mass. However, we were taught that, in extremis, we should be present for the Offertory, the Consecration and the Priest’s Holy Communion. That’s the whole sacrifice i.e. the victim offered, the sacrifice and the consummation. Only saying. Also, in Ireland, farmers who couldn’t attend the entire Mass used to kneel in the porch for the Consecration before continuing to market. To conclude, Cardinal Mindszenty used to say the Consecration only , in secret, when he had the necessary species.
I meant to say that the said Cardinal Mindszenty was in a communist prison.