Trump: Are Pro-Lifers Inconsistent?

Trump: Are Pro-Lifers Inconsistent?

I hesitate to wade into the fever swamp that has arisen over the past few days over the question of whether women who have abortions should face prosecution. (A question that is, as a friend suggested to me earlier this morning, the “ultimate gotcha question” for abortion advocates to pose to politicians running on a pro-life platform.)      animatedteacher2

 

And yet…and yet

I’ve made no secret that I have serious problems with the way the pro-life movement handles certain aspects of the decades-long war. I’ve written about the problem with abortion politics, and the need for us to demand, unequivocally, intellectual honesty (read: scientific truth) about abortion. In 2015, I went to the March for Life and interviewed marchers on the street about why they still come after 42 years with no major successes. I keep trying to understand what we’re doing wrong. I keep trying to understand why we seek a political solution to an inherently moral problem.

And now pro-lifers are up in arms because, when pressed repeatedly by Chris Matthews, Donald Trump said that women who seek abortions should face “some form of punishment.”

This isn’t a post about Donald Trump. It’s a post about us. About how we think, about how we approach this topic, about why we fail to win even the debates over abortion, which should be a slam dunk.

You see, fellow pro-lifers, we have very little credibility. We say abortion is murder, but then we often actlike it isn’t.

In today’s world, it’s almost impossible not to know someone who has had an abortion, or helped someone else get one. Many of us even have these people among our circle of loved ones. Family members. Friends. We live with the knowledge of this horror marring the past of those closest to us. That abortion is a sin of murder is indisputable. That murder is (in a civic sense) a crime is also indisputable.

But when someone that such a crime should be punished, the very loudest voices arguing that abortion is a crime turn their ire on the person saying it.

The fog of cognitive dissonance we have had to live with for over 40 years on this issue no doubt mitigates individual culpability to a degree. But it is neither illogical nor absurd to suggest that, in the event that abortion were outlawed, there should be some criminal penalty levied against the mother who seeks one.

I’m not motivated at all to prosecute all the hurt, even broken women, who have been led into this error by force or deception. But jurisprudence demands that we be consistent, not arbitrary. And the reason this issue is being discussed right now was a question of jurisprudence – and policy moving forward.

The pro-life movement is nauseatingly dishonest when it comes to certain issues. Think of all the pro-lifers who admit exceptions in the case of rape and incest.

Really? So it’s murder except when it reaches a certain level of discomfort? Tell me more.

There are not a few women who are victims of abortion, flat out — coerced into an action they want no part of. There are others who are both perpetrator AND victim — women who make the choice freely, but are deeply conflicted over it, and who likely would not make such a terrible choice if it were not so readily available, or if they knew they had better options. And there are some who, as hard as it is to understand, are callous and bloodthirsty. These last are proud of the abortions they’ve had.

This spectrum, like any human action, has a diverse set of factors that must be taken into account when assessing culpability, both morally and legally. Not least is the near-total societal approval for this heinous act.

But if a day came when abortion was again outlawed, such circumstances would require the assessment of criminal penalties for those found guilty of what would then be a criminal violation of the law. I’m not anticipating or arguing for Nuremberg trials for past abortions here. That would be impossible and unwise. I’m talking about the fact that a broken law necessitates consequences — for the purposes of restitution, rehabilitation, or simply the satisfaction of justice. Even addicts, who may well have a morally limited freedom because of their addiction, are still arrested and prosecuted when caught using illegal substances.

We have to make sense in how we approach this. Nobody should be shouted down for bringing the logical consequences of a desired change in the law on abortion to the table — least of all those who are advocating for that very change to the law. I understand that there are many emotions involved, and not a few such advocates are too close to this issue for comfort, having been guilty at some point in their lives of abortion themselves.

But these emotions cloud our logic, and mar our credibility as advocates for the unborn. We must not allow this to happen. It’s incredibly damaging to the cause.  Source

But today, in many people's consciences, the perception of its gravity has become progressively obscured. The acceptance of abortion in the popular mind, in behaviour and even in law itself, is a telling sign of an extremely dangerous crisis of the moral sense, which is becoming more and more incapable of distinguishing between good and evil, even when the fundamental right to life is at stake. Given such a grave situation, we need now more than ever to have the courage to look the truth in the eye and to call things by their proper name, without yielding to convenient compromises or to the temptation of self-deception. In this regard the reproach of the Prophet is extremely straightforward: "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness" (Is 5:20). Especially in the case of abortion there is a widespread use of ambiguous terminology, such as "interruption of pregnancy", which tends to hide abortion's true nature and to attenuate its seriousness in public opinion. Perhaps this linguistic phenomenon is itself a symptom of an uneasiness of conscience. But no word has the power to change the reality of things: procured abortion is the deliberate and direct killing, by whatever means it is carried out, of a human being in the initial phase of his or her existence, extending from conception to birth. The moral gravity of procured abortion is apparent in all its truth if we recognize that we are dealing with murder... (Pope John Paul II: Evangelium Vitae #58
But today, in many people’s consciences, the perception of its gravity has become progressively obscured. The acceptance of abortion in the popular mind, in behaviour and even in law itself, is a telling sign of an extremely dangerous crisis of the moral sense, which is becoming more and more incapable of distinguishing between good and evil, even when the fundamental right to life is at stake. Given such a grave situation, we need now more than ever to have the courage to look the truth in the eye and to call things by their proper name, without yielding to convenient compromises or to the temptation of self-deception. In this regard the reproach of the Prophet is extremely straightforward: “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness” (Is 5:20). Especially in the case of abortion there is a widespread use of ambiguous terminology, such as “interruption of pregnancy”, which tends to hide abortion’s true nature and to attenuate its seriousness in public opinion. Perhaps this linguistic phenomenon is itself a symptom of an uneasiness of conscience. But no word has the power to change the reality of things: procured abortion is the deliberate and direct killing, by whatever means it is carried out, of a human being in the initial phase of his or her existence, extending from conception to birth.
The moral gravity of procured abortion is apparent in all its truth if we recognize that we are dealing with murder…   (Pope John Paul II: Evangelium Vitae #58)

 

Comment:

Like the author of the blog 1P5, I do not want this thread to be hijacked into a discussion on the controversial American politician Donald Trump. He serves our purpose only by providing a context for us in which to consider the apparent inconsistency of the pro-life movement, which seeks to repeal a law legalising abortion, only to argue that it is one class of murder which should not be punishable by law. 

Doesn’t make sense – does it?  Or does it? 

 

Comments (156)

  • Clotide

    Please see below details of the Billings training course which is helpful for those who wish to know more about fertility and topics related.

    Please forward on if you know anyone who might be interested in attending this.

    From: info@fertilitycare.org.uk
    To: info@fertilitycare.org.uk
    Subject: Information Day – Saturday, 23rd April 2016, 11am – 2pm
    Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 09:36:28 +0100

    We are having a “Drop-In” Information Day here at Newton Place on Saturday, 23rd April 2016 from 11am – 2pm for anyone interested in finding out more about The Billings Ovulation Method® Teacher Training Course in September/October 2016 in Dundee or about the method itself.

    If you want to pop in for a cup of tea/coffee, you are most welcome. Please also encourage anyone you think might be interested to come along too (clients perhaps?) and if you have a local parish, you could ask your priest to advertise it too. (I will put a sample for bulletins at the end).

    April 4, 2016 at 10:15 pm
    • Margaret Mary

      Clotide,

      I would not recommend any of these Billings courses these days because I’ve learned from a friend who is an instructor, that they treat it like “Catholic contraception” without sticking to the Church’s teaching that NFP may only be used for a limited time in serious circumstances. When I pointed that out to my NFP instructor friend, she was amazed and said she had never heard that before. Since then, I’ve stopped recommending these courses to people because it can mislead them into thinking they can decide not to have children or to have only a couple, as long as they use NFP and not the pill or other contraceptive. It should only be taught to couples who understand and abide by the teaching of the Church.

      April 4, 2016 at 11:17 pm
      • Clotide

        Margaret Mary

        One needs to attend this course to find out that it is much more than teaching about how not to have children.
        There is a whole lot about understanding what it is to have a really loving relationship with a husband in a true marriage and I would not accept one persons point of view. It certainly depends on who takes the course. I know two teachers who have 11 children between them.

        Far better to abide by the churches teachings this way than to take contraceptive advice from the medical profession. They know very little about how fertility works and cause dire destruction and suffering in the lives of many women with their kind of advice.

        April 5, 2016 at 1:06 pm
      • editor

        Clotide,

        I am very concerned that you posted the advert for the Billings Course.

        Firstly, it is off topic. This thread is about whether or not the Abortion Act should be repealed and once illegal again, should there be penalties for those involved in procuring an abortion. That has been made very clear to Fr Arthur and has been a cause of comment on here a number of times, yet you posted an off topic advertisement in any case. I am surprised and one other emotion that I won’t spell out here. I would ask bloggers to ignore this distraction and stick to the topic. I am getting a bit tired of having to say that.

        For the record, Catholic Truth does NOT recommend attendance at any Billings course without first questioning the instructors to ascertain that they do know and accept the Church’s teaching that the natural methods may only be used as a temporary measure for very good reason. It is not, as MM has rightly said, to be taught (as I’ve seen it taught) as an alternative to contraception.

        April 5, 2016 at 10:27 pm
  • RCA Victor

    I would like to highlight something Athanasius posted near the beginning of this discussion, by pointing out that abortion is not a cause, but an effect. An effect of the demolition of the Social Reign of Christ the King, to be exact, which is, among other things, the demolition of the influence of the Catholic Church on society. So I do not believe there will be any major “political victories” on abortion until the real cause of this mass murder is corrected – though the expose on the sale of baby parts by Planned Parenthood has resulted, in the USA, in the withdrawal of some state (but not federal) funds from this work of the Devil.

    That said, if legislation were restored outlawing this crime against God and humanity, then I do agree that the women who seek abortions should face legal consequences.

    April 5, 2016 at 1:03 am
  • Summa

    It saddens me to read some of the comments on here from a Catholic Priest although it should not surprise me. Editor has repeatedly asked Fr Arthur to state whether abortion law should be reintroduced and finally we had a grudging …well it won’t make any difference… type answer even though he wishes it was.
    What kind of leadership is that? Wet rag leadership? In the Church today, there is a general attitude of pragmatism. Nothing is inviolable. We cannot upset the population. All that came before must be seen in a new light.
    Bunkum! This is nothing more than breeding ground for heresy.

    April 5, 2016 at 1:32 am
  • John Kearney

    Editor

    When a thousand voices say you are only killing a foetus and only one voice say it is a baby who is a distraught young lady going to believe? That is the point in the situation the girl does not start a debate she only wants a solution. And abortion is the will of the country and probably her family. What you have to do is not take your own Faith and your own standards and believe they should be present in the girl. She does not see things they way you see things. Yet through this debate we have been concentrating on the law and punishment when we should be approaching it from the eyes of Christ. We should be looking at the girl like Jesus looked at the woman taken in Adultery. He did not hand her out a penance but simply said “Go and sin no more. Was he wrong in this? Should he have asked her to atone? We are called as Christians to open our hearts to sinners not demonise them. Finally all those who attacked Fr Arthur what are they doing actively about abortion? Perhaps I should not ask that question but did Jesus not speak something about not seeing the mote in your brothers eye when the beam is in your own. .

    April 5, 2016 at 10:16 am
    • Petrus

      John

      You can bet your bottom dollar the girl will think more carefully about which “solution” (what an awful way to describe an abortion – reminds me of the Nazis “Final Solution”) to choose if one is likely to land her in prison

      April 5, 2016 at 10:27 am
      • Fr Arthur

        Petrus

        Our Prisons are full of people who have, in addition to dealing with major psychological problems, addictions, and the deprivations and hardships of Prison Life , also have to do Thinking Skills Courses. That is they have to learn to think!

        How many people, whether married or single, think of their life options before they have sex, and more especially how many were too immature, or pressured. to have sex when psychologically and physically they were not ready for it.

        April 5, 2016 at 10:50 am
      • Therese

        Fr Arthur

        How many Catholics, whether married or single, think of their life options before they have sex…? How often are Catholics educated from the pulpit in such matters (and NO, I don’t mean sex education)? How often are they reminded of Church teaching, and how much encouragement are they given to educate themselves on the consequences of contraception and abortion? How often are parents reminded of their duties towards their children in this regard?

        We know very well that the “country” as a whole never gets any spiritual education,so we don’t need to be told that, thanks. It’s blitheringly obvious. Those “shepherds” who have so neglected their duty to instruct/remind their flocks of these basic truths are guilty of much. No more excuses, please.

        April 5, 2016 at 12:35 pm
      • Fr Arthur

        Therese

        I assume you have research to show your conclusions?

        When did you ask other people who have sinned, in whatever way, were you not told that what you did was sinful?

        I can say I have touched upon all these hot topics in sermons, and discussed them with individuals in confession.

        Evidence suggests that even when proper counsel is given people still have a tendency to sin. I think it is called “concupiscence” but I bow to your superior knowledge no doubt built upon both in your market research, and the hours you have spent “hearing” confessions.

        April 5, 2016 at 12:42 pm
      • editor

        Therese,

        Well said. I see the ridiculous question asking for research evidence! Heavens above. Soon, dear Lord, may I wake up from this nightmare.

        One of my former students told me, at aged 25, that after all his years in Catholic education he’d never once heard Hell mentioned and purity was something people looked for in their whites when the washing machine rolled to a halt.

        Gimme strength!

        April 5, 2016 at 10:32 pm
  • Therese

    Fr Arthur

    That’s very gracious of you; yes, I have done years of research,trying to find a church where orthodox Catholic morality is spoken from the pulpit. Very little luck there. Many years of conversations with badly taught “Catholics”, (the young I talk to have never been taught the Faith to any useful degree); all of this informs me of the devastating lack of understanding of the Faith. All of the young Catholics I have spoken to and worked with see nothing wrong with “shacking up”, contraception, immodest dress and talk etc. When I ask them if they were not taught about these things at the “Catholic” schools they attended, they inform me that they haven’t. It goes without saying that they were never taught from the pulpit.

    I’m extremely glad to hear that you talk of such things in sermons, Fr Arthur; I don’t say you are unique, but you are certainly very rare. If you don’t see that, then I’m forced to the conclusion that you haven’t done your research adequately.

    April 5, 2016 at 3:26 pm
    • Fr Arthur

      I feel sure The Church says that the first, and primary, teachers of children are their parents, and neither the Parish or School can replace that role, or make up for what is lacking. For the tripartite system each of the players must undertake take their primary role.

      Further , for example, in preaching to a typical Sunday congregation in a Church a priest would struggle always find language appropriate to the maturity, and learning skills, of every age group on delicate topics. Therefore Christian sex education is most probably best left to the parents of children.

      In my experience of working with couples who want to get married, but are living together, I find that if I challenged them they don’t say I was never taught it was wrong but it is…(insert whatever decade)…… and everyone is doing it.

      Just as I have had women post abortion break down in tears, I have countless parents do so as they wonder where they, not The Church, or School, have gone wrong as we “taught them right and wrong”. When are some parents going to stop blaming “The Church” and “The School”, and recognise some of them have failed their children. However, many more have done their job, and they must learn to recognise their children were not raised in a vacuum and cannot be immunised against societal pressures.

      To return to the central point of this thread not all women who have had abortions willingly became pregnant, nor sought an abortion. Many have been taught it is “just a few cells”, or it is a woman’s right to choose, etc, and that abortion is just another form of contraception. Many are already vulnerable women, and when the harsh reality of what they have done is realised they are traumatised, and sorry. I don’t know any Gospel where Jesus said add trauma to trauma, but he did say come to me and I will give you rest.

      April 5, 2016 at 5:13 pm
      • Petrus

        Father,

        I think theres some merit in what you say. However, A true Catholic educator knows that the whole package has to be there – the school, parish and home. There needs to be consistency.

        Sadly, this is what is lacking. The revolution in the Church caused the breakdown of this triangulation. Priests stopped preaching the Faith in all situations, schools stopped teaching the Faith and the home stopped following the moral law.

        April 5, 2016 at 5:54 pm
  • Clotide

    I knew nothing about abortion until I got involved in pro-life work and counselling. A priest asked me if I would like to go along to a meeting where I saw the abortion slides, which opened up my eyes in a big way.

    The only mis-guided guidance young people receive in school seems to be how to avoid becoming pregnant with none of the pitfalls either moral or physical so is it any wonder we have so many girls and women who try to take what they are brainwashed into thinking is the easy way out.

    I would say that at least 9 out of 10 women who go for an abortion do not want to go down this road but are pushed by husbands, boyfriends, family, friends and doctors. Time and again they have said if they had been offered help or known what was going to happen to them they would not have made that choice.
    They are threatened with losing their partner/husband, job, a home, and so on until they make up their minds to agree. Needless to say they still very often break up their relationships because thay can’t face the father again for allowing it to happen. Their self-esteem and worthiness are shattered because they have done this terrible thing which they will never be able to forget. They will not be able to carry on working and develop phobias and serious mental problems.The woman will often feel suicidal. (Sweden, where abortion rates are high, has the highest rates of suicide amongst women)

    Women are told lies by pro-aborts nurses and doctors who say it is only a piece of tissue and there is nothing to worry about. When they do eventually see the ‘products of the uterus’ (as they are called euphemistically by medical staff) they are utterly devastated especially when they are given a powerful drug designed to kill the baby and expel its body. The mother takes the tablets -Mifepristone- herself, and is fully aware of the effects that the drugs are having on her body as they happen. If the baby is aborted at home this can be very traumatic for the mother (or father) particularly as she will deal with the body of her child and all that it implies. This drug can be taken up to 9 weeks with 3 visits to the hospital or clinic.

    As a post-abortion counsellor I have listened to women who have given up their studies, given up work and another who was taken into a psychiatric hospital.
    These women need to ask God for forgiveness and to forgive themselves which is often the hardest thing to do. They also need to forgive all who forced them to make this ‘choice’ It sometimes takes a long time but the victims of this crime they have committed against God, the child and themselves can be healed.

    We want to end abortion and only through prayer and education will there be any changes to the law. The law must be changed but the important thing now since abortion is so easily avalable and seen as a right must be to teach the truth behind the facts.
    Several efforts in parliament have been made to change the law and at least reduce the time limit but each attempt has made the law more liberal.
    The prayers from the 40days for life especially in the US have succeeded in closing down many clinics and centres. If you are interested in finding out more you can log into the 40daysforlife site to read about the closures in America.

    How many folk know that the the so-called Catholic version of the facts of life called ‘God’s Loving Plan’ refers to a series of lessons called ‘Living and Growing’ which was produced many years ago by Channel 4. (It is completely out of date anyway) Some of the content is explicit and pornagraphic and it uses words which you would not like to use in front of children. (or ever as far as I’m concerned) This syllabus above has been approved by the Catholic bishops and is being used in some Catholic schools.

    April 5, 2016 at 4:51 pm
    • Fr Arthur

      Thank You Clotilde. There is much in what you say that any sane rational Catholic would take to heart.

      Thank God to The Missionaries of Mercy sent specifically to reconcile these women who often have been failed by others, and are broken and in despair.

      April 5, 2016 at 5:17 pm
    • WurdeSmythe

      I would say that at least 9 out of 10 women who go for an abortion do not want to go down this road but are pushed by husbands, boyfriends, family, friends and doctors.

      Similarly, one woman I came across who regretted her abortion reported that the men in her life said they would “be there” for her if she got an abortion, but nobody ever told her they would “be there” if she opted to keep the child.

      April 6, 2016 at 9:30 pm
  • westminsterfly

    Fr Arthur
    Your second sentence – I’m not sure I really understand what you mean. Pope Francis is sending out 1,000 priests to absolve sins that every parish priest can already absolve, according to this video: http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/remnant-television/item/2316-the-missionaries-of-mercy-coming-soon-to-a-theater-near-you If priests can already absolve the sin of abortion, what is ‘specific’ about the ones being sent out by Pope Francis?

    April 5, 2016 at 5:54 pm
    • Fr Arthur

      The right to absolve for abortion is not universally granted to all priests, and it is listed as a sin reserved to The Holy See. However, priests in some countries, including England and Wales, who can validly and licitly absolve sins, have had that faculty for decades.

      May I quote this:

      “Abortion A person who actually procures an abortion incurs a latae se ntentiae excommunication (1398). Automatic excommunication for abortion (CIC 1398) applies not only to the woman who has the abortion, but to “all those who commit this crime with knowledge of the penalty attached, and [this] includes those accomplices without whose help the crime would not have been committed” ( Evangelium Vitae 62).
      No one is automatically excommunicated for any offense if, without any fault of his own, he was unaware that he was violating a law (CIC 1323:2) or that a penalty was attached to the law (CIC 1324:1:9). The same applies if one was a minor, had the imperfect use of reason, was forced through grave or relatively grave fear, was forced through serious inconvenience, or in certain other circumstances (CIC 1324).
      A latae sententiae penalty is one that follows ipso facto or automatically, by force of the law itself, when a law is broken. A penalty that binds a guilty party only after there has been a trial and judgment is known as a ferendae sententiae (meaning “sentence to be passed”) penalty. “

      April 5, 2016 at 6:18 pm
  • catholicconvert1

    Of course pro-lifers are in many cases inconsistent, because they have no qualms in supporting the grave moral evils of contraception, which limit the number of children and prevent the pro-creation of the human race and contradict the Divine Commandment issued by God in the earliest days of Creation in Genesis 1:28-

    ‘And God blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and all living creatures that move upon the earth’.

    I remember Editor appeared on Big Questions with a young lady from SPUC and she was less than equivocal concerning contraceptives. Likewise, contraception creates the circumstances for abortion. If a condom splits and the woman is impregnated then that baby becomes an accident. This mentality gives the ‘couple’ the ‘justification’ to butcher the poor and defenceless infant.

    Abortion is a most abominable crime and as Petrus said, it is one of the most depraved. Not only does a mother participate in the murder of her child, she also denies it the possibility of receiving the Sacrament of Baptism. Thus, the baby still bears the stain and guilt of Original Sin, and is consigned to an eternity in Limbo. Whilst Limbo is a place of bliss, the baby is deprived of the Beatific Vision. To think that a mother could murder her unborn offspring! As Mother Teresa said-

    ‘if a mother can kill her own child- what is left for me to kill you and you to kill me- there is nothing in between’. She also wisely stated: ‘the so-called right to abortion has pitted mothers against their children and women against men. It has sown violence and discord at the heart of the most intimate human relationships’.

    Pope Pius XI of sacred memory also said in his 1931 Encyclical Casti Connubii, condemning both contraception and abortion-

    ‘Since, therefore, the conjugal act is destined primarily by nature for the begetting of children, those who in exercising it deliberately frustrate its natural power and purpose sin against nature and commit a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious. Small wonder, therefore, if Holy Writ bears witness that the Divine Majesty regards with greatest detestation this horrible crime and at times has punished it with death. As St. Augustine notes, “Intercourse even with one’s legitimate wife is unlawful and wicked where the conception of the offspring is prevented. Onan, the son of Juda, did this and the Lord killed him for it.”

    ‘All of which agrees with the stern words of the Bishop of Hippo in denouncing those wicked parents who seek to remain childless, and failing in this, are not ashamed to put their offspring to death: “Sometimes this lustful cruelty or cruel lust goes so far as to seek to procure a baneful sterility, and if this fails the foetus conceived in the womb is in one way or another smothered or evacuated, in the desire to destroy the offspring before it has life, or if it already lives in the womb, to kill it before it is born. If both man and woman are party to such practices they are not spouses at all; and if from the first they have carried on thus they have come together not for honest wedlock, but for impure gratification; if both are not party to these deeds, I make bold to say that either the one makes herself a mistress of the husband, or the other simply the paramour of his wife.”

    Consequentially, if a woman commits the abominable crime of abortion, it is entirely logical to call for her punishment. However, desire for true justice must also be tempered with mercy and if a woman aborts due to rape, mental illness or familial pressure (i.e. boys are preferred in some cultures), then it must be recognised that these are extreme and abnormal situations. The sternest punishment must be received by the doctor who performed the murder itself. Indeed, I would go so far as to call for the death penalty.

    April 5, 2016 at 6:43 pm
  • Wendy Walker

    https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153656792786939/?fref=nf

    hideous video of Polish females walking out of Church because Priest spoke against abortion

    April 6, 2016 at 12:43 pm
    • catholicconvert1

      Dear Wendy,

      Thank you so much for that video. How dare those women walk out of Church during the homily, showing disrespect, contempt and hatred towards our Holy Mother the Church, Our Lord present in the Most Blessed Sacrament and the Priest. Diabolical. How dare those women speak against the so-called ‘torture’ of women and ‘dignity, health and security’ of women. They are torturers of their babies and they destroy the dignity, health and security of their babies. I can think of nothing more undignified than having a doctor invade your womb and butcher the precious life within. Abortion is a form of rape.

      Here’s another video: https://www.lifesitenews.com/pulse/ben-shapiro-reveals-sorry-state-of-college-students-pro-abortion-logic

      Maybe Catholic Truth could send a collective electronic letter to the Archbishop of Gniezno, Msgr. Jozef Kowalczyk to consecrate Poland the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart. Let’s face it, Poland is the only Catholic country remaining in Europe, if not the World.

      April 7, 2016 at 6:16 pm
      • Therese

        CC

        I’m astonished that you consider Poland to be a Catholic country.

        April 11, 2016 at 2:43 pm
  • Spero

    Well, I consider Poland a Catholic country.

    When one is in a city which offers eight Masses on Sunday and several ( if not all ) of these Masses are packed with those of every age group, demonstrating a reverence that is inspiring, it is reason to think Poland is still Catholic.

    The hierarchy is in the main still orthodox and this has been expressed in statements made.

    The Polish people still live and breathe Catholicism. When a people is deprived of the Faith for so long, it becomes so much dearer to them.

    Now as to whether this will last, that is quite another question. The secular West’s influence is all around. Many Poles return from their time in the U K and elsewhere with a watered down Catholicism and this is having a great effect. Material plentifullness blots out the supernatural.

    So I don’t know if the Poles will keep the faith. But they are much more Catholic than any people I’ve ever encountered ( my experience might be limited)

    Am I off topic, editor? I’m answering Therese. So please blame her and CC. Thank you.

    April 11, 2016 at 7:24 pm
    • editor

      Spero,

      Not off topic although it would have been interesting if you had included your reaction to the Poles walking out of Mass because the priest upheld Catholic teaching on morals. I know you wouldn’t approve of that, not remotely. I do take your point about the influence of the secular UK on them, etc, but it doesn’t speak well for the spiritual, religious and moral formation of those who could walk out of a Mass because the priest was upholding the sanctity of life in the womb. No amount of secular influence would prompt a properly formed (i.e. REAL) Catholic to do that.

      April 15, 2016 at 10:13 am
  • Therese

    Spero

    I’d better not reply to you as I can’t bear to be in the dog house yet again.

    April 11, 2016 at 7:57 pm
    • editor

      Therese,

      Watch it! You’ll end up in the dog house if you don’t watch it! I don’t like it when folks cast aspirins on my administrative character!

      In short, Therese, I don’t think I like your altitude 😀

      April 15, 2016 at 10:16 am
  • Wendy Walker

    Please forgive me if this comment isnt the usual Pro Life one but in a way it is becaus e the E U is so pro death ..therby it affects us

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/660228/EU-Referendum-2016-Leaflet-Row-How-to-Send-Back-Return-Downing-Street

    If you dont like the EU then this is for you and if you like it please share it let our voices be heard
    thank you

    April 15, 2016 at 9:51 am
    • Michaela

      Wendy,

      Even if some people wanted to vote “yes” in the referendum, they could use the envelopes to send a picture of an aborted baby or some pro-life literature. Just a suggestion!

      April 15, 2016 at 10:30 am
  • Wendy Walker

    A very brilliant idea .Michaela..and a message for pro abortionists everywhere ..splended might make MR Cameron think as well

    April 15, 2016 at 3:16 pm
  • Wendy Walker

    https://www.change.org/p/chief-superintendent-belinda-davies-access-to-safe-legal-abortions-in-cardiff-and-actions-of-40-days-for-life

    I would like you to read this vile petition from rabid pro abortionists they are trying to stop Cardiff 40 Days For LIfe …these people have harrassed the peaceful .Prayerful Pro LIfe Group in a horrific way
    they even dressed one man as Jesus to ridicule them …
    How much longer will Pro LIfers have to suffer such things ?

    April 15, 2016 at 6:01 pm
  • Wendy Walker

    Yesterday I was speaking to a very devout friend who does not have a computer he was saying about the dilemma of voting in or out of the EU..he had read in one Catholic magazine its in the best interest for us to stay in …I pointed out that given the E U stance on reproductive wrongs ,homosexuality ,abortion ,sex ed ..prostitution ,euthanasia your answer is there .
    It should be a Moral issue as well as Financial etc

    April 16, 2016 at 11:55 am
    • editor

      Wendy,

      That linked report is just confirmation of what I’ve written above (12.03 pm) – that the Catholic Faith and Morals are not uppermost in this Pope’s mind. He is very much earth-bound. Watching him shaking hands with the migrants on TV news this morning, with reports that he is taking ten of them back to Vatican City with him (?***!!!!) just says it all. He won’t be trying to influence these members of false religions, to lead them to the truths of the Catholic religion – the only true religion. Far from it. He just wants to contribute to giving them a better life in this world. I’m convinced that if any of us asked him “what about the next world?” he would reply: “next world? What next world?”

      That, Wendy, is my considered opinion! But we’re stuck with him – for now.

      April 16, 2016 at 12:09 pm
    • Nicky

      So does Cardinal NIchols give a strong signal that Catholics should vote for IN.
      In The Tablet he is quoted –

      Cardinal Vincent Nichols has warned that it would be harder for the UK to face socio-economic problems if it left the European Union.

      Speaking at a press conference in London on Friday, the day that the Leave and Remain groups began to campaign in earnest, the Cardinal said that the Catholic instinct was “to look for the whole”.

      The Bishops Conference of England and Wales today put out an effectively neutral statement on the EU Referendum, calling on Catholics to pray before they voted.

      That statement said that the human person, not economics, was at the heart of the debate.

      While the bishops acknowledged “the profoundly religious roots of European nations” and that “Europe has a two thousand year-old Christian culture”, they also noted “the justifiable concerns that many people have in relation to the European Union”.

      But speaking in a personal capacity, Cardinal Nichols said that there was a long tradition within Catholicism “of holding things together”.

      “Once you start down the path of division, that almost inevitably leads to further division. Once it becomes your solution it becomes a frequent solution,” he said

      I had to laugh at the comment about “holding things together” and “not starting down the path of division” given the chaos in the Church after the division caused by Vatican II which he backs. I often find myself saying “do these men hear themselves?” .

      April 16, 2016 at 5:20 pm
  • WENDY WALKER

    Tragically your spot on who could believe it ??/…I bet he has his telescope ready every night to receive The Martians he so longs for.and go for a ride in their space ship possible to the next World ….. jokes aside this man is the leader of millions of Catholics and he is not nourishing any ones Soul is he ?……….what gift he is to the satanic and far left loonies ..very very scary indeed

    April 16, 2016 at 5:19 pm

Comments are closed.


%d bloggers like this: