Kasperite Parish – Preferred Modeleditor
Mystery – this article has disappeared. Will investigate and hopefully re-instate it. In the meantime, apologies for any inconvenience caused.
Some time later: mystery unsolved. However, click here to read other article on the topic…
Ditto Salford Diocese: 150 parishes to be reduced to 75, property deal sought with property developers. [Some very large presbyteries which could be utilised for charitable purposes as we did in days of old.] Presently an odd diocese out, having no permanent deacons, bishop foresees such to be the answer, coupled to even greater lay participation. Where a single priest is currently serving three congregations, Celebration of Mass [if that what it might be] can only be perfunctory. Only one diocesan Sunday TLM, plus one SSPX Mass in the diocese. Several Tridentine leaning clergy in the diocese, unfortunately with three in one church [Oratorians]. So far, no overtures to Traditional Orders as in Lancaster [Preston – btw: 4 Sunday TLMs within circa 4 miles SSPX incl.]; Liverpool and Shrewsbury. Celibacy and marriage clergy the next moves and the emergence of Mrs. Proudys. We are witnessing the collapse of the diocesan structure in the E&W and presumably Scotland, I can only speak of Galloway in such respect and that of longstanding. God help us all.
“Celibacy and marriage clergy the next moves”
I think that is what the next Synod is going to be on, I read that somewhere, that the Pope wants the next Synod to look at married clergy. That will be just terrible. I’m afraid married clergy would change the relationship between priests and parishioners, very greatly. I couldn’t feel the same trust in a priest who was married.
“I’m afraid married clergy would change the relationship between priests and parishioners, very greatly.
I couldn’t agree more. Absolutely.
We could probably say “ditto every diocese!” There seems to be a policy of letting priestly vocations slide and putting lay people in charge of parishes. It’s completely mad. If people won’t bother going to Sunday Mass when it’s under pain of mortal sin, what makes the bishops think they’ll bother to attend a lay-led service that cannot be obligatory?
At first sight one is tempted to dismiss what is going on in Hallam as embarassed concilarists looking for a fig leaf. After all, the grand rhetoric of renewal which attended the introduction of ‘reforms’ mandated, or supposedly mandated, by ‘the’ Council have turned to porridge. The natural temptation of those who let themselves be seduced by them is to put a positive spin on some very un-positive developments.
But things are actually worse than they may seem at first sight. For the people eulogising the heretic Kasper actually believe in their hearts that the developments they have caused, i.e. clergyless parishes, are actually a good thing. Not only because they may hasten the demise of priestly celibacy (with Francis anything is possible), but because these people are of a Protestant mindset and deeply resent that there should be any ecclesial mediation beyond the Bible. Their ecu-mania has blinded them to sacramentality as the fundamental category in Catholicism, and so, to them, it matters not a whiff if parishes do not have priests.
It is not so much that the chickens are coming home to roost. The have come home, and they are roosting. I refuse to speak any longer about the crisis in the Church. There is no crisis. The crisis has passed. (In medical parlance, remember, a crisis is a turning point, for better of worse, in the course of an acute illness or fever.). The body ecclesial has taken a turn for the worse and the fever must be left to play out to its logical and theological conclusion. History, after all, gives us the great example of the Church in North Africa. Once upon a time it was the premier Catholic civilization, giving rise even to a genius like Augustine. A few centuries later it was reduced to dust. Maybe Britain (and Europe) is facing the same fate as her repudiation of the true faith will see her left to hedonistic atheists and Muslims. There will always be a Catholic remnant, of course.
That is not to say that we should sit passively by and let the Church be reduced to rubble, saying, as we traditonalists are wont, ‘Well, we told you so.’ No, we have to do our bit in force of the prophetical mission which we received at baptism and through the medium of prayer whose power we are too often given to underestimating. Hence why I am so keen in a regularisation of the position of the FSSPX.
We must pray that God will raise up new saints in our midst to do His will and at the same time offer ourselves to become those saints. But let us be under no illusion. The time when the crisis could be ‘fixed’ is long past. It is no longer a question of opening the bonnet and a few turns of the spanner, but one of a complete dismantling and reassembling, i.e. of wholesale conversion.
Trouble is, we have a confounding factor. Francis. He praised the heretic Kasper right from the first moments of his pontificate. Kasper was appointed to both Synods on the family and would have worked his even much more successfully than he did were it not for the bishops of Africa and the Oriental Catholic Churches, to say nothing of not a few heroic bishops from Europe and the U.S.A. Francis will be only too ready to cover the backs of the modernists in Hallam and elsewhere, thanking them for their courage innovation and reprimanding traditional Catholics for the audacity to believe tha the Church should be anything other than a field hospital.
Of course, the Church should have the feel of a field hospital about her, but in the battle between her and the world, not in sterile internecine conflicts which are the fruit of disunity and as such leave the door open to the devil.
” I refuse to speak any longer about the crisis in the Church. There is no crisis. The crisis has passed. (In medical parlance, remember, a crisis is a turning point, for better of worse, in the course of an acute illness or fever.). The body ecclesial has taken a turn for the worse and the fever must be left to play out to its logical and theological conclusion.”
I completely understand your point, but the fact is, that if we view this past 60 years in the light of the entire 2,000 history of the Church and from the perspective of eternity, this horrendous state of affairs amounts, I would suggest, to nothing more than a blip.
It is in this way that we can surely bring younger Catholics to understand what Our Lady warned of at Fatima – that the Church (and world) would take a diabolical turn for the worse (as you put it) – that there would be a diabolical disorientation when everything would be upside down. That God sent His Mother to warn us of this forthcoming crisis/turning point/diabolical disorientation, is in itself a reminder that this is not “the Church” – there IS no “new” Church. There are churchmen who are doing the work of the Devil and while it is true to say, as I have said myself often and as others have said on this thread, these diabolically inspired churchmen actually believe that they are in the right (Kasperites spring to mind) that does not take away, one iota, from the responsibility they bear before God for taking the faithful down the manifestly wrong road, undermining and even seeking to overturn Christ’s own words, and the divine Law.
So, I stick with the term “crisis” but explain it in the context you give. In other words, I agree with you and I disagree.
Maybe I’ve got liberal blood in my veins after all 😯
I take your point, and I suppose that, in a sense, the history of the Church is a history of crises.
My refusal of the term in the present context is dictated by my view that things can somehow be brought back, when in point of fact there has been a paradigm shift.
I respectfully beg to differ. All things are possible to God. It is His Church and He, despite appearances, is still very much in charge. The storm will pass and calm will be restored in God’s good time, even if, like the disciples on the road to Emmaus, all seems lost. Our Lord’s greatest victory was when he died on the Cross, and yet to all around it looked like complete failure. The Mystical Body, presently undergoing its agony, will rise again in greater splendour than before.
Surely, if we concede that “things cannot be brought back”, we are effectively saying that Christ has broken His promise to be with the Church until the end of time, that the gates of Hell have, indeed, prevailed against her? Or am I misunderstanding your meaning (I hope!)?
Certainly, humanly speaking it is virtually impossible to see a way out of the mess created by the past 50 years, especially the mess caused during the current pontificate, but isn’t that precisely why we must cling to that divine promise and, for our own part, resist the scandals and attacks on Christ’s Mystical Body which are currently being inflicted by the person holding the highest office in the Church?
There has, indeed, been a paradigm shift – Satan seems to be winning the day. It is very tempting, I agree, to think that all is lost (or, as we used to say as children in Glasgow, give up because “the game’s a bogey”!)
Your description of the history of the Church as a history of crises is fair, but it’s sort of “the glass half empty” view; the history of the Church is also one of great holiness, saintly popes (a priest pointed out to me recently that even the notorious Alexander VI, exercised strong governance over the Church, despite his own personal weaknesses and sins) And when the Church did suffer crises, God raised up marvellous saints, living edifying and apostolic lives, as testimony to the truth of His promise to be with His Church always, in every crisis, until the end of time.
I think it’s important that we not lose sight of the “blip” theory. Yes, this terrible pontiff has taken the Church further into the diabolical disorientation prophesied by Our Lady through the Fatima seer, Sr Lucia. But even this paradigm shift will be put right in due course. For nothing, as we know, is impossible to God, and just as we must see the hand of Satan in the attacks on Catholic Tradition coming from within the Church, so we must see the hand of God in the robust resistance to this “paradigm shift” around the world. Many solid Catholic priests, some bishops, such as Bishop Schneider, and thoroughly knowledgeable Catholic laity (especially in the USA – think John Vennari, Michael Matt and Christopher Ferrara, not to mention Rod Pead of Christian Order here in the UK) are fighting hard to expose the errors and heresies in all that is being thrown at us from the highest levels in the Church. We report on and link to these excellent responses in defence of the Faith, in order to remind ourselves that this shocking state of affairs WILL pass. We have Our Lord’s own promise – the gates of Hell will never prevail.
Here endeth the lesson!
“For the people eulogising the heretic Kasper actually believe in their hearts that the developments they have caused, i.e. clergyless parishes, are actually a good thing”
I believe that is very true. I’ve heard priests saying in homilies that the Holy Spirit is allowing the Church to become smaller, so it is purer and so that the laity can fulfil their true role. It’s incredible. It makes you wonder what they think of Jesus’ command to “go out into the whole world, baptising them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”
How can there be Exposition of The Blessed Sacrament and communion services if there is no one to consecrate the host?
The reason there is a shortage of priests is because there is a shortage of churchgoers. I would assume that there would still be as big a shortage of priests if the celibacy rule was changed, except maybe for the ones who would come crawling back who have previously abandoned the priesthood for marriage and are now sick of “civvy street”.
The reason there is a shortage of priests is because there is a shortage of churchgoers.
Yes. And why is there a shortage of practising Catholics? Because if you refuse to hand on the faith systematically through proper catechetics; if you treat the homily as a ‘turn’; if you don’t celebrate the Mass as if you believe that you are in persona Christi; if you celebrate Mass as if you were just reading rather than performing; if you separate Christ’s and the Church’s commands from Christ; if you separate Christ from his bride; if you are afraid of beauty and order, not just in your personal life, but especially as they pertain to the liturgy; if you speak and teach about Christ not as an end in himself but as a means, e.g.to greater social justice; if you do not believe that Christ, and only Christ, is the way, the truth, and the life, then people are going to look for something else.
Why turn out of bed of a Sunday to be told that you are doing something which those who have stayed in bed are doing implicity, and, if you object, be told again that you are suffering from older brother’s syndrome (cf. parable of the prodigal son).
The Protestant churches allow married ministers and they have plenty of problems so even if the unfaithful priests who left to marry returned, it wouldn’t be easy for them, see the article below. It’s a true saying, to be careful what you wish for!
You make a very good point. I once met a Church of Scotland minister’s wife who was soon to be his “ex-wife” – despite having a toddler son, they were getting divorced, so abandoning celibacy is no guarantee of a life of sunshine and roses. In fact, if the C of S experience is anything to go by, married ministers brings its own whole set of problems; I have a vague memory of a friend pointing out an advertisement for counselling in the Presbyterian magazine Life & Work, specifically targeting ministers and their wives.
To help us understand this we could perhaps compare it to the difference between preparing, cooking and then enjoying a meal together as opposed to microwaving a ready meal.
Once upon a time such inanity was the preserve of Anglicans. But note that it is all about us; never about Him. And therein lies the origin of the whole debacle.
God help us , because two world wars ,dearth of priests , paganism of the sixties , spirit of the world has had its affect., Jesus promised he would not abandon his church
True; what the Reformation and the “spirit of this world” (as you put it) didn’t achieve, Papa Francis seems determined to bring about – the end of Catholicism as we know it. Still, as you say, Jesus promised to remain with His Church until the end of time and that is what should give us confidence in the future.
This Fr. Peter McGuire, doubtless a protege of Bishop Ralph, is absolutely imbued with the spirit of Protestantism. From his description of the priest as a presider at Mass, to the equating of the Mass itself with a meal, and all those cringe-worthy references to lay “ministries,” is it any wonder that God is not blessing such places with vocations?
A terrible judgment awaits these destroyers of our holy religion if they don’t quickly snap themselves out of their indifference and open their eyes to the heresies and liturgical abuses they are presently nurturing. They have no right to abuse their power in this way, placing numberless souls in danger of losing the faith altogether.
Let us not pretend that priestless parishes was not the vision of the revolutionaries of Vatican II; it has long been their vision, and now they are on the verge of killing off whatever remains of Catholicism in the dioceses and parishes, both liturgically and morally. These men are truly wolves in the clothing of sheep.
From the very beginning of the so-called “conciliar reform” there has been a quite deliberate obscuring between the ordained celibate priesthood and the non-Sacramental priesthood of the people. They have so muddied the waters that now they pretend that both are essentially manifestations of the same thing. They even contort the early Christian practices to push the lie. Satan has always desired the death of the Mass and the sacred priesthood. Well in these men, these Judas’s, he has almost accomplished his task, even if he will not ultimately succeed.
Why don’t they just admit with humility and sorrow that they have departed from the truth and caused two generations of the faithful to depart from it also, resulting in a catastrophe, an apostasy, unheard of in the 2000 year history of the Church? Why don’t they get on their knees before Our Lord in repentance and do what must be done, restore the old faith, the true faith of our fathers handed down, and finally consign their heathen gymnastics, their so-called “New Pentecost” to the dustbin of history. If only they could see the harm they have done to the faith, and continue to do by their faithless indifference to truth. If only they understood what judgment awaits them as squanderers of the precious treasure that was given them for safekeeping. If Fr. McGuire is typical of the priests of the future, then may God grant us fewer priests! The faithful will have to content themselves with the rosary until these Kasperite heretics are finally purged from Church, as they would have been just 60 years ago.
It is a debacle of the first magnitude. But I have a funny feeling–nothwithstanding the seemingly overwhelming evidence to the contrary–that not everything is going to go their way. Nor should it.
Indeed! Despite all their efforts to destroy the faith, Our Lord continues to confound them with holy vocations to the more Traditional side of the Church. They will never succeed in their betrayal of the Church. A full restoration of all things iin Christ is assured, but only after the time allotted to these faithless men, these so-called reformers, has ended.
And yet, with an enthusiastic, caring Bishop, there are dioceses which are actually growing and find that there is not a shortage of vocations. Priests are available in the wide world. The bishop should be out looking for priests in other countries. There is a surplus of priests in some of the dioceses in India. I cannot name which of them has a surplus now because I forget and yet a priest from India who was visiting my parish here in Western Australia told me that his bishop was encoraging his priests to take time off outside the diocese because he could not support the number that he had. Any bishop who is selling off churches is failing in his ministry to the faithful.
The Galloway Diocese here in Scotland has been waiting for over a year now for 3 priests from India but we are now being told that they have failed their English exams to allow them into the country.
I find this hard to believe and feel there must be another reason.
That’s really funny because if they could speak the Queen’s English, nobody in Galloway would understand a word! LOL!
If you look at the ration of serving priests in Scotland to the number parishes and to the number of nominal Catholics, it would certainly seem that we are in the grip of a major crisis in vocations. But if you look at the ratio of serving priests to practising Catholics, the numbers are no where near as bad.
Of course, this is only part of the story. The other side of the coin is the high rate of lapses among the faithful.
I agree with that because I once heard a priest saying that for the number of laity there are now, we have plenty of priests. People forget that when they talk about priest shortages.
If that is true, then it will still be necessary to shut parishes or leave some with no priest as the people are spread among more or less the same number of parishes as when there were more priests.
Yes of course it is necessary to shut parishes. Either that or the same priest travels round a group . The answer is NOT to have lay people pretending to be priests and prancing around sanctuaries manhandling Our Lord!
You’re right! And the Bishops need to renounce their Modernism and restore Tradition to their diocese if they wish to stem further deterioration. If they continue as they are in their utter religious indifference, then parishes will eventually deplete all the way back to the catacombs, wherein only the truly faithful will remain.
“So, what is it going to take for these modernist bishops to admit that they have lost their moorings? ”
Modernist Bishops and Priests do not teach the Faith, the older ones lost theirs long ago. What we have now is what many of us feared, a “new Church” preaching a “new” religion as Bishop Schneider stated, ….. “at the same time, invented new sacraments to reflect the new religion” ..
It is absolutely the fact that we are living in a de facto schism, with those who are exercising influence in the Church today, effectively destroying it, humanly speaking, and replacing everything that is “Catholic” with a counterfeit version.
But they can’t win; in the end, they lose. That has to be our consolation.
“every time the disciples saw evidence of the divinity of Jesus, as soon as they realised they were in the presence of God, they fell to their knees in adoration. Worth reflecting on this if you are a defender of standing to receive Communion in the hand, or if you are in the habit of offering nothing more than a slight nod of the head as you pass the Tabernacle. “
That is a very piercing comment from the blog introduction. It is really something to think that the disciples who were actually with Jesus on earth, fell to their knees every time they realised he was divine. That’s overwhelming evidence by itself that the custom of kneeling for Holy Communion is the right one.
The following interview with Cardinal Kasper is published on the 1P5 blog. Although it is not about the Kasperite model of parishes, I think it is of interest on this thread, since it seems the Pope agrees with him on turning everything on its head in the Church – not just parish structures!
Kasper: Pope Intends “Not to Preserve Everything as it has Been”
BY MAIKE HICKSON ON APRIL 23, 2016 FEATURED, NEWS
On 22 April, Cardinal Walter Kasper gave yet another interview about Pope Francis and his reforms. This time, he spoke with the German regional newspaper Aachener Zeitung. In this interview, the German cardinal made some candid — indeed, bold — statements which are very important in the context of the current situation of the Catholic Church.
Kasper speaks about the further Church-reform plans of Pope Francis and his intention “not to preserve everything as it has been of old.” With Pope Francis, “things are not any more so abstract and permeated with suspicion, as it was the case in earlier times” within the Church. When asked whether there is also a new tone within the Church, Kasper answers: “Yes, a new tone.” He also responds in a more positive way to the question as to whether the German Bishops’ Conference now have a “tail wind” and says: “Certainly.” And he continues, in the context of the question about “remarried” divorcees, by saying that Pope Francis has agreed with him about making some “humane decisions.” The German cardinal recounts how he once told Pope Francis about a priest whom he knew who had decided not to forbid a “remarried” mother to receive Holy Communion on the day of the First Holy Communion of her daughter. Cardinal Kasper himself concurred with that priest’s decision, saying: “That priest was fully right.” About his further conversation with the pope, he added these words: “I told this to the pope and he confirmed my attitude [with the following words]: ‘That is where the pastor has to make the decision.’” Kasper concludes: “There is now a tail wind to help solve such situations in a humane way.”
Kasper also says in this interview with regard to the admittance of “remarried” divorcees to the Sacraments: “The door is open. … There is also some freedom for the individual bishops and bishops’ conferences. … Not all Catholics think the way we Germans think.” And he concludes: “Here [in Germany,]something can be permissible which is forbidden in Africa. Therefore, the pope gives freedom for different situations and future developments.”
In other parts of the interview, Kasper also shows how much the pope has supported him. For example, he recounts how Pope Francis – after he praised Kasper publicly on the first Sunday after his election to the throne of Peter – told him: “I made propaganda for you!” Kasper also recounts that it was he himself who was able to convince the pope to accept the honor of receiving the Charlemagne Prize (one of the most prestigious European prizes). Kasper says: “He [Francis] shortly thereafter then further responded with these words to the question from a journalist as to why he had accepted this prize: ‘That is because of the stubbornness of Cardinal Kasper.’”
Cardinal Kasper – who himself was a member of the controversial Sankt Gallen Group – admits in this interview that, during the 2013 Conclave, Cardinal Bergoglio had once been “certainly for me also a potential candidate [for the papacy].” And he then adds that some cardinals during the Conclave had some prior mutual agreements as to who should be elected: “Some agreed in advance [about the one for whom to vote]; that is not forbidden.” Nevertheless, Kasper purportedly opposes the idea of “real factions” during a Conclave.
However, this new statement by Kasper is in opposition to what Paul Badde, a German Rome expert, had to say about such advance agreements or arrangements during a Conclave, as it had then just been revealed concerning the progressive Sankt Gallen Group itself. As I reported back on 24 October 2015:
Badde also said that, afterwards [i.e., after hearing about the activities of the Sankt Gallen Group], he had made a report about this matter, saying, in part, that this conduct clearly “violates the instruction Universi Dominici Gregis promulgated by the deceased pope [John Paul II] who, already in 1996, had put into it his new and strict rules according to which there are to be, in no way, any internal negotiations either before or during the Conclave concerning the election of the successor of a pope.”
When speaking about the ongoing reforms of Pope Francis, Cardinal Kasper does admit that there is some resistance within the Curia. He continues: “If in your editorial office everything would be [suddenly]turned upside down, there also would be some resistance.” It is important to note that this audacious cardinal also openly admits here that Pope Francis is doing just that with the Catholic Church, namely turning everything upside down. (As the pope once said in Southern America: “Make a mess!”)
Kasper proceeds to explain a little more about the methods of the pope’s reform: “He changes many things – but not only structurally. He aims especially at the mentality. Only if that [mentality]changes, will structural reforms bear fruit. But that takes time. Francis is working on it.” This acute and illuminating comment might also now be read in light of a quote just published a few days ago by the Rome Correspondent Edward Pentin in the context of Amoris Laetitia itself:
“It’s very Gramscian,” said one Church philosophy scholar, referring to the 20th-century Italian Marxist who advocated spreading Communist ideology through cultural infiltration. “The defiance of traditional orthopraxy is also an attack on orthodoxy, for every principled change of practice necessarily entails a change in principles.”
As many know, the Gramscian strategic approach (deftly invented by the Italian Communist Antonio Gramsci) was to gain political influence by slowly changing the culture – or, in the words of Kasper, the overall mentality. In Kasper’s eyes, the pope especially wants “to change the face of the Church – not its essence. He wants a more humane, a merciful face of the Church.” Source – 1P5
You ask “what, in your opinion, will it take to restore the Diocese of Hallam to true Catholicity?”
Short answer – Divine Intervention!
Kasperite Parish – Preferred Model?
For the Germans, perhaps – for any true catholic absolutely not!
It does however, seem to be a step in trying to cope with the destructive effects of the great apostasy warned about in The Second Epistle of St. Paul to the Thessalonians.
Not to worry though! If there are no priests, perhaps an Imam or Rabbi will suffice since according to Pope Francis “we are all Gods children”
Check this out to see how far the rot has spread.
Ludicrous! That “House of One” is, of course, the logical conclusion of all the senseless ecumenical and inter-faith activities. That really is setting up a new religion.
Bishop Schneider lays into Kaspar and his gang
Reading that Lifesitenews report with the direct quotes from Bishop Schneider, I think we may expect (hopefully) a hard-hitting official response to the Exhortation from Bishop Schneider, when it comes.
a hard-hitting official response to the Exhortation from Bishop Schneider, when it comes.
Here below is a link to an English translation of Bishosp Schneider’s official response to the exhortation. It was originally published in Italian, in “Corrispondenza Romana”.
I have just had a look at this link and it is interesting re the call to ‘the simple faithful” to protect the faith. The trouble is, as ever, that the simple faithful have not had the necessary catechesis to spot the errors or the theological knowledge or even vocabulary to refute them. For the most part any way.
I was distracted by another article/interview on the same site with apparently intelligent US college students being confronted by a white male interviewer who suggests to them, for research purposes, that he is a Chinese female. The subject is not really relevant to this thread but there was a conclusion that maybe is: ‘If you stand for nothing then you will fall for anything.’
For we like sheep have gone astray…!
“The trouble is, as ever, that the simple faithful have not had the necessary catechesis to spot the errors or the theological knowledge or even vocabulary to refute them. “
Absolutely spot on. That IS the problem – the key problem, in fact, in trying to deal with this crisis. Even Cardinal Winning came to acknowledge, eventually, that there was no use blaming parents (of children in Catholic schools) for their children’s lapsation since they, the parents, hadn’t been taught the Faith either. Several generations now and still counting, have not been taught the true Catholic Faith but only the 60 year old version of it.
At the risk of repeating myself, WHAT a terrible judgment awaits all those involved with the Vatican II project – especially its architects; all those at the top and the clergy who were complicit, in bad conscience, for the ongoing devastation within the Church.
The issue now is compounded by poorly educated and ill-informed priests. I’ve been in the situation where I’ve tried to explain Church teaching and a priest has said, ” First I’ve heard of that!” The whole thing is a mess. The only informed Catholics these days are those who teach themselves….using the Catholic Truth newsletter and blog, of course!
There’s a saying that goes “Cometh the time, cometh the man”
Bishop Schneider is one of the few Bishops who says what needs saying, when it needs saying. How I wish we had him here – selfish? perhaps, but most of western Christianity needs someone like him. Maybe he will be our next Pope – before Our Lord is forced to activate His Justice.
‘I have just had a look at this link and it is interesting re the call to ‘the simple faithful” to protect the faith. The trouble is, as ever, that the simple faithful have not had the necessary catechesis to spot the errors or the theological knowledge or even vocabulary to refute them. For the most part any way’.
Editor has beaten me to it, but exactly. Bp. Schneider talks about the laity saving the Church during the Arian crisis, but I can’t believe he is seriously suggesting any similarity between the ‘simple’ laity then and now. The simple laity then lived in a simpler world, many were uneducated, but they had learned the truths of the faith simply and thoroughly. The intelligentsia inherited and used the disputatious methods of the thinkers and philosophers of the Graeco-Roman world, a succession of philosophers who operated over a 1,000-year period from the middle of the first millennium BC to the middle of the first millennium AD. By challenging and disputing revealed truth, they undermined and lost their own faith in the divinity of Jesus Christ. Understandably the simple laity, unequipped to follow them into the disputatious groves of Academe held fast to the simple faith they had received.
Today’s laity are altogether different. Uncatechised indeed, but full of their own self-importance and self-delusion through an ‘all must have prizes’ minimalist secular education, they are bombarded daily with every manner of Godless rubbish and filth, are so often pawns in the deadly PC game, and, thanks to 50+ years of diabolical disorientation are without the spiritual defences of the laity of the time of Arius.
Much as I admire Bishop Schneider and others who have spoken up, I am getting sick of their trying to pass the buck to ‘the simple laity’. THEY have been chosen to lead the sheep and it’s about time they started doing so collectively. Rant over. Oh not quite. It’s becoming daily clearer to me who is piloting the Church, and Kasper is proudly claiming, to my ears anyway, that it ain’t his admirer Pope Francis.😬
His justice is already activated in a great clerical loss of Faith and crucifixion of the Mystical Body. We hope now for mercy and a resurrection of all things in Christ!
I concur entirely with your comment as being applied to current societal conditions, but since “the mystery of iniquity” is now growing exponentially and wars are a consequence of sin , then………
gonnae no dae that, gonnae no use big wurrrrds like exponentially cos some ae us dinnae no whit they meeeeeeeeen…Away yersel!
Ach, ah wiz jist showin’ aff. Av jist geed masel a hunner lines fur beein a buffoon!
Am away tae sit oan ra naughty step!
Och well, if ye were jist showin’ aff, that’s OK. Ah thought ye might be expectin an answer tae that expony stuff 😉
Oh yes, global war is almost certain if things continue as they are. We can already see the West and Russia at loggerheads again. But global nuclear war is a walk in the park in comparison with a global loss of souls.
Eny mer a this and am sendin ye bayth to get sum ay they electrocution lessons!
And as Vianney would say (if he wisnae away enjoying himself the lazy….) “you can say that about the electrocution lessons without any fear of contraception”!
OK, I’m going to return to speaking proper, although I’m not sure I like your altitude…
The attitude stems from the slight you gave me when I sent you that beautifully crafted chair for Christmas and you refused to sit on it and plug it in!
A L T I T U D E … Athanasius… A L T I T U D E (check it out!)
Yes, that chair does look lovely and one of these days I WILL plug it in – around about the same time that Pope Francis reaches for the microphone on his next flight!
A reader has emailed me this link and asks for comments.
I replied that I had heard of a similar situation some years ago, when a Scots priest took up a new appointment and was approached by some women who told him they were in the habit of having their own Eucharistic Service on the priest’s day off and they wanted to do the same for the new priest plus offered him another day off. He turned them down saying he always offered Mass every day even on his day off. Astonishingly, the women then told him that they really preferred their own Eucharistic Service. So, this story, from Fr Hunwicke’s blog, is no surprise to me. What about you?
Nope! I’m not in the slightest surprised as this was the end game of the so-called reformers, i.e., Protestantism.
I agree with you, it is the endgame of the so called reformers, i.e. Protestantism. I still cannot get over the fact that women would prefer their own Eucharistic Service.
About 4 years ago while chatting to an 88 year old woman, she related the incident of the day her parish priest phoned her. For whatever reason he could not be there to say the Novus Ordo Mass. There was no time to cancel either.
His instructions were to continue with what in fact was a lay person led service. If this lady when the time came, would open the Tabernacle, then distribute the Hosts to whoever was present. He named another lady, if she would lead the prayers and read out the Epistle and Gospel of the day. If remember correctly she was one of a small group of lay people termed “Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers”.
Despite feeling is was not right about opening the Tabernacle in the first place she did carry out the priest’s instructions. Yet, she referred to the service as a Mass. Was it simply a thoughtless slip of the tongue? Maybe. But it is definitely shows the depth of confusion that abounds. Needless say I had to remind this woman that what she was present at – was certainly no Mass by any means of the imagination.
I once attended a one-off ‘indult’ evening Mass which seemed to have an unexpectedly large congregation pre-Mass, with an unusually large concentration in the front three rows. After a minute or two I realised that these were Anglicans who had been frequenting this Catholic Church in a group for a while. During Mass they seemed restless, and afterwards there was a near riot! Their beef? They’d come to do their own lay thing for the feast (of St. George), and didn’t want THAT (the Mass) instead! Perhaps their own old Anglican parish had become a bit too ‘high’ for them and they reckoned that they could be more protestant as ‘Catholics’ than they could as Anglicans! Mad.
Yes, I noticed the “altitude” mistake but it was too late to take back my comment. Should’ve gone to you know where! As regards the Pope’s in-flights of fancy, I live in fear that he will one day grab the mic and burst into song. I imagine he would probably bellow out a re-work of ‘start spreadin’ the news’, with a reform of the New York, New York chorus to Novus Ordo, Novus Ordo.
Athanasius, following the bit of fun recently with another Frankie hit, I thought I’d have a go at this one. However, when I looked at the lyrics I found that they fit pretty well just the way they are.😁
Come to think of it, you’re absolutely right. It’s almost as if the lyrics were written with Pope Francis in mind. I hadn’t really though of that when I made the comparison.
I’m not surprised either but tragic. What worries me too is the effect on people of goodwill who imbibe that garbage week after week. Really the average Catholic today is completely different to his forebears in belief.
It seems that Bishop Peter Brignall of Wrexham Diocese in Wales will be closing 22 out of the 62 Catholic Churches. There is no mention of course about lay led Eucharistic services.
Years ago, in reference to our friends the baby-killers, I called this effort to democratize and Luther-ize the Church, and to eliminate the priesthood through the so-called “universal priesthood of all believers,” “Planned Fatherhood.” The holy priesthood has always been the target of choice for the Devil and his minions.
The ever-accelerating process of “reform” (that is, destruction) calls to mind two things: one, the Parable of the Unjust Steward, and two, an astute observation by St. Pius X in Pascendi. The “reformers” are the children of this world (in this case, those who worship human respect), who are wiser than the children of light (those who hold fast to the Faith), and sure enough, they have outmaneuvered us at every turn – with one exception, Archbishop Lefebvre and the SSPX. The passage in Pascendi remarks on the untiring zeal and devious resourcefulness of the Modernists.
However, I think there are two different motivations for this zeal (I would even call it a messianic zeal): one, the zeal of those (i.e. Freemasons and Communists) who directly serve the Devil, and thus who hate the Church and sleeplessly plot for her destruction. That zeal is based on hatred. Two, the zeal of the useful idiots who think they know what is best for the Church – better than Our Lord, the Apostles, the Fathers and Doctors of the Church and all the saints. This zeal is based on pride.
The second type of zeal is much more difficult, in my opinion, to remedy, because it is exactly like the zeal of the Communists, whose collective eye, fixed upon an illusory Utopia, rationalizes and excuses the butchery of millions and the destruction of civilization as merely a temporary and necessary phase which will result, some day, in the establishment of a paradise on earth (the “dictatorship of the proletariat.”) The Kaspers, Bergoglios and Schonborns of the Church, like the Communists, are not fazed one bit by all the obvious results of their “reforms” – no, their response to empty churches, empty seminaries, widespread confusion and heresy is that their “reforms” haven’t gone far enough! More are needed to arrive at this new, healthy Church!
It seems to me that the only thing that can cause the scales to fall from their eyes is the Consecration of Russia. Which will, perhaps, be precipitated by an attack on Rome by ISIS (or, perhaps, the Consecration will come first).
Since ISIS have said openly that their chief target is Rome, I think you’re onto something there!
Especially since His Holiness is so keen on wheeling Trojan horses into Rome. I really think the plans of ISIS must be well advanced by now, and that we don’t have long to wait. Actually I was offered a trip to Rome this year, and refused because I truly fear the worst.
What an excellent post. Many thanks indeed
I can only echo Gerontius – excellent. (Is Editor paying you extra??)
Thanks, but I’m still waiting for that extra zero in my paycheck…..
Other parishioners may be more suited to lay leadership of liturgy and parishes should look out for people with these special talents.
The word liturgy used to be beautiful to me, and now, in the ‘new church’, bandied about by the likes of Kasper and McGuire, and sadly our current Pope, it makes me cringe. Its sacredness was jealously guarded and preserved in the ‘liturgical books’, its forms and words to be scrupulously followed in the fitting worship and service of Almighty God. The word’s derivation from its Greek root is probably unfortunate, as it has enabled every modernist since Vat.II to corrupt its traditional meaning so that it is now thought of as the ever-changing, changeable work of the ‘people of God’, more often than not, for the ‘people of God’. So this article cheered me up. I’ve wanted to see this chapel for many years, and wonder, if anyone has seen it, if it is as beautiful as it sounds.
Yep, Christina, it’s still there and it’s a little gem. The original artist (Italian prisoner of war) even returned many years later to titivate it as it was getting tatty. It’s on the little island of Lambholm.
The Emeritus Archbishop of Glasgow once said a TLM there, I believe. The beauty of the situation is that, like the wonderful St. Magnus Cathedral in Kirkwall, the Council owns the buildings and the modern mob cant’t ruin either building! Another plus point is that anyone (including the SSPX) can and do have services there.
On reading the article I concluded at the end that I had been there, done it, and have the T-shirt.
I was under Bishop Hollis of Portsmouth who is now styled the Emeritus Bishop. Suddenly as all of you know in the seventies there was suddenly a shortage of young men entering the Seminary. As the priests became old, the Bishop wringing his hands rather than ask what has gone wrong, He decided on a Pastoral Plan and consulted the laity. At Mass were were given a form and closed questions were asked, just a yes or no answer about different things. The Result was a document Go and Bear Fruit which we were all to get excited about, although in the document the bishop lamented that there was still people in the diocese who would stay in the safety of their huts rather than move out to a beautiful place somewhere. It was no use answering that perhaps if he is leading I much prefer my safe little hut since that was beauty enough for me.
Anyway the enthusiastic parishioners were chosen and went to a meeting which was wonderful. There were then meetings in which an expert demonstrated Pastoral Areas, a grouping of parishes that could be run by two priests living within the Area. We would all sort of become one parish. Of course there would be more Liturgy of the Word Services to help the priests on a Sunday. Someone, a spoil sport, mentioned bringing in ‘foreign priests’ but this was not welcomed. Anyway yet again great things were going to happen in the Diocese under the Holy Spirit, for humility was always involved. But suddenly with the influx of immigrants from all over the world including Europe the Pastoral Plan was not viable. Although not mentioned the numbers attending Mass had fallen drastically and even I was considering that with so few practising Catholics maybe two priests were enough. But suddenly a failing Church was revived and with the immigrants came priests from Africa and Europe and it was at last really safe for me to leave my hut.
Hallam of course is a differ end matter. Who is going to go there?
I taught in Portsmouth Diocese at one point in my young(er) life. It could never be described as “safe” – spiritually it was the most dangerous diocese in the land, and I remember saying so many times. Bishop Hollis? Least said etc.
John, your answer from Sheffield City Council’s own report!
‘Ethnicity and diversity
Sheffield is an ethnically diverse city, with around 19% of its population from black or minority ethnic groups.
The largest of those groups is the Pakistani community.’
Is that hut for sale?😕
The word ‘safe’ was being used sarcastically by the Hollis mob. Christina, we have in portsmuth had as great number ob Polish people settle, and they almost doubled the numbers in many parishes. However the bishop has many enemies among the clergy who still are loyal to Hollis who still is active when he can in the diocese.
Your final paragraph explains much!
I’ve had a letter from the reader who sparked this topic thread, and he is keen for me to inform bloggers of correspondence published in the Universe about the fact that the Bishop of Hallam has put a stop to recruiting priests from overseas, preferring instead to promote the “Kasperite model” – I will type out his excellent letter in full below, but please note that I am very late in closing the April threads and will be doing so within the next couple of days so if anyone has any comment to make, please do so without delay:
LETTER FROM LIAM JENKINSON, ROTHERHAM, PUBLISHED IN THE UNIVERSE, 6 May, 2016…
In a bold and brave counter-cultural move, Bishop Rawsthorne of Hallam dealt with the shortage of priests by recruiting them from Poland, India and Nigeria.
However, our current bishop has put a stop to such recruitment stating that “something more radical is required.” By this he means priest-less liturgies, no sacramental provision, etc. This change of policy was preceded by a so-called consultation, but none of the issues raised by the laity were discussed or responded to.
The announcement by the bishops of Salford, Wrexham and now Hallam have been described elsewhere as Orwellian newspear, episcopal-babble.
The priests from abroad who now work in the Hallam Diocese are deeply loved and respected by their parish communities. Asked why the Nigerian clergy came here, one of their number replied with deep humility: “it’s pay back time. The Irish missionaries brought us the faith and we are delighted to bring it back to the British Isles.”
I have spent a lifetime in personnel management and as director of a training agency and these announcements and decisions by the respective bishops show a lack of knowledge of even the most rudimentary concepts of manpower and succession planning. Members of the Hallam laity are continuing to mount a vigorous campaign against these plans to deny us the priests we need and I would advise other dioceses to do the same.
The calibre of the priests from abroad in Hallam is itself a major indictment of the policy of not recruiting from abroad. Furthermore, it is a classical example of double standards when we are encouraged to welcome refugees but at the same time refuse to recruit priests from abroad. Since there seems to be no logical explanation for the Universal Church NOT to bring priests from around the world to our shores, one must assume that this is a policy generated by the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales.
One Polish priest, who has worked in this country for six years, exclaimed: “When I first came to England I believed in the Universal Catholic Church, but I now see that a fence has been erected against the recruitment of Polish priests to the UK.”
Like many others, I would like someone from the episcopate to explain just what is going on when we are closing churches because of a priestly shortage when a representative of the Nigerian clergy has stated that there are 400 priests available to serve 100 parishes in one diocese in Nigeria, and that many of them are ready, willing and able to come to work in the UK. A Polish priest has made similar comments about his own diocese in Poland. Liam Jenkinson, Rotherham.
Excellent letter. Could it be that the priests from overseas are a tad more keen on orthodoxy than the home-grown “vocations”? Just sayin’ …
OR, just as likely, it could be simply that the Bishop is an apostate, and just wants to re-make the Church in his own image and likeness, with the laity running the show just for the sake of giving the appearance of an “involved”
faithfulfaithless… and “lively liturgies”. Just a thought. Just sayin’… You’ll get my drift…
A diocesan priest friend relative to the clergy shortage and parish closures opined: “they could get priests from parts of Europe, but will not, they would be too Catholic.” He is 60 years ordained next week.
For latest see June issue of Hallam news pages 2, 4 & 10.
Editor: Welcome, Liam! I had already looked for the June edition of the Hallam News but it is not yet online. Click here to reach their homepage. I suspect it will take a few days (perhaps even beginning of June) before they post their June edition. As it happens, the June edition of Catholic Truth is in the post (and features the Hallam Diocese on the front page!) We will be posting that in the next couple of days, so we will be early with our June edition. Hallam needs to get with the Catholic Truth programme… in all senses!
Agreed. Pope Pius X1 said “The first and obvious duty the priest owes to the world about him is service to the truth, the whole truth, the unmasking and refutation of error in whatever form or disguise it conceals itself. To fail in this would be not only treason against God and your vocation but a crime against the true welfare of your people and your fatherland”. A theme of commentary on the Hallam situation emphasized the absence of parishioners as well as priests. A factor with regard to the absence of parishioners is the low birth rate. What follows is an extract from a submission I have suggested for publication following my initial published letter:
1. The birth rate is below replacement level in the Western World.
2.Natural Family Planning is wrong unless used for a justifiable reason.
3.Many so called contraceptives are actually abortifacients. Vatican guidelines on Morality of conjugal life, handbook for confessors, pontifical council for the family pages 16 & 17, section 5 state “a specific and more serious moral evil is present in the use of means which have an abortive effect, impeding the implantation of the embryo which has just been fertilised or even causing its expulsion in an early stage of pregnancy” thus IUDS, hormonal birth control including progestin only pill, injections, norplant, Implamon, the patch, vaginal ring, emergency contraception and the pill cause abortion and their use is forbidden by church’s teaching.
In this context Nazism was defined by Pope John Paul II as a manifestation of the anti-Christ and Jews etc. were killed by chemical pellets being inserted in the roof of the death chambers. An east European Cardinal, a prisoner of both the Nazis and the communists stated that contraception and abortion would finish of the work that Hitler had begun in the death camps. When couples use hormonal birth control they repeat the process that Hitler began when a pill is dropped in to a woman’s body which kills their child. From the pulpit there is perennial silence on these subjects. Many priests seem unaware of there own policy guidelines and some of them don’t even agree with them. I have heard one sermon on the subject in fifty years of church attendance. The devil hates every conception which is made in the image and likeness of God because it has a destiny of eternal life which Satan cannot share.
For decades on these and many other issues the church has suffered from the twin evils of obscurantism and the ‘smoke of Satan’ which has entered the church. Thus the recent synod on the Family never mentioned abortifacients etc. and there was little reference to the blessing of children. Instead we got a treatise on the evil fruits of contraception such as divorce etc.
Cardinal Biffi in a Lenten meditation given to Benedict XVI stated the anti-Christ is likely to be ‘a pacifist, ecologist and ecumenist’. He further stated that the antichrist was not necessarily a person but ‘the reduction of Christianity to an ideology’ and he criticised a tendency of some Catholics to promote vague spiritual goals, rather than focussing on the importance of Christ’s sacrifice.
I was uplifted by repeated comments by fellow bloggers that the gates of Hell would never prevail. Our Lady of Good Success said ‘that when all seems lost She will intervene’. So lets all press on under the inspired leadership of the editor!
For the Latest Update on Hallam please see Catholic Herald May 27th Page 16
Thank you Liam – I’ll catch up with that on Sunday.
I’ve just been reading the Herald and Mr Jenkinson is named in the article on page 16. The most interesting thing about it is the quote from a bishop (Drainey of Middlesbrough) explaining that the real reason they don’t want priests from overseas is that they are too dogmatic. Quote: “Some foreign priests working in Britain tend to be too dogmatic about the Church’s moral rightness on just about everything. That’s not how we do things here.”
Good on Liam Jenkinson for raising the issue of priest shortage and publicising the fact that the Hallam Bishop refuses to recruit foreign priests – thanks to the Bishop of Middlesbrough we now know why.
The letter you published on the shortage of priests in the Hallam diocese has resulted in an article in the Catholic Hearld, thanks to you! Dialogue in the last few weeks means I now have to change my approach to another factor in this debate in Hallam. This is a factor I had hoped would be dealt with “in house” to avoid scandal for the church locally. However this has not happened as recent dialogue has proved.
Throughout my working life within the Civil Service Employment Department and in private industry I have had to tackle racism. The worst examples was in the Employment Exchange where I started work. There was a policy there where details of vacancies with some employers had the letters N/C in red ink written on them-that meant no coloureds were to be sent to that employer. A company in private industry where I worked had a culture of racism which I had to deal with using some very radical methods. Over the 40 years I learned first hand about the way racism particularly manifests itself in the UK- It was covert, it was insidious, it was evil and it was SUBTLE making it more difficult to detect and deal with. Dialogue with all levels in a hierarchy eventually surfaced the issues and an action plan was then produced to facilitate remedial action.
Some time ago I raised with the Bishop and Vicar General of the Hallam diocese the following issues:
1) An Irish priest with over 40 years experience told me there had been discrimination against Irish priests for decades only one had ever been given a position of responsibility in the diocese and that had been done in a sop to placate the considerable number of Irish priests working in the diocese.
2) Comments from “English” priests in recent times and I quote them verbatim, as given to me personally and by others I trust. “Nigerian priests are only here to get out of Nigeria- and who wouldn’t want to get out.”
“Nigerian priests can’t be trusted with money.”
“We’ve just been lucky in getting “good” Nigerian priests ( implying, of course, falsely, that the rest aren’t good!)
“We will soon be overrun with Nigerian priests.”
Worst of all a senior cleric who undoubtedly has the Bishop’s ear “African priests aren’t properly formed.” In any sacrament who in the early stages is “properly formed”? With vast experience of appraisal of performance of employees I can state categorically this is not true of the African priests in our diocese. From my past experience of racism however it is a classic category of MYTH and I have learned that a myth subtly promoted and used is the “coat hanger” on which the worst manifestations of prejudice and racism are promulgated.
“Many Polish priests don’t have a real vocation they just join the priesthood for a career.”
“Polish priests just become priests for the money.”
“Polish priests working here just work here to get out of Poland.”
I could list more dialogue in a similar vein but it would be repetitious. I will simply say that as well as being a factor in the non recruitment of priests from abroad this racism manifests itself in the ill treatment of foreign priests already working here. The response to these and other issues is woeful and passive aggressive -“pretend it is not happening and it will go away.” The latest spin the diocese where priests “run” two or even three parishes is that we don’t have a shortage of priests and masses. I will be prepared to give further details of any interested party but no the Catholic Association for Racial Justice with whom I have also raised the issue. Their formal response was “They would not get involved but would continue to promote racial justice.” From my past in depth experience a classic “quangoland” response from a classic “quango” who don’t want to rock the hierarchical not as with so many others.
Finally St Francis de Sales said “He hated duplicity as he hated death”. Pope St Felix III said “Not to oppose error is to approve it and not to defend truth is to suppress it.” St Thomas Aquinas said “It’s one thing to suffer injustices committed against oneself following Christ’s injunction to turn the other cheek, it is quite another to do nothing while other people suffer injustice.”
Mr William.J.Jenkinson M.C.I.P.D
158 East Bawtry road
158 East Bawtry Road
I’m afraid what I take from your post after reading the Catholic Herald article to which Michaela refers, and has quoted, is not “racism” but a hatred of the Faith.
They don’t want priests from Nigeria, not because they’re from Nigeria but because they’re orthodox – not “liberal”. Ditto Poland; ditto Ireland, and, in fact, ditto Any Town, Anywhere, The World.
The hilarious thing is, these priests, while they may be “orthodox” in terms of the extremes of liberalism with which the Church is permeated today, are highly unlikely to be “traditional” – but you tell me: are these foreign priests offering (or seeking to offer) the Traditional Latin Mass? See what I mean? I was present, not long ago, at a novus ordo offered by an African priest and it was as happy clappy as any other novus ordo Mass. I can’t remember what he said in his homily, so I presume it was heresy free, but he asked for applause for this, that and t’other,so if he is typically “orthodox”, that just means that he is not contradicting the more obvious essential tenets of the Faith. It doesn’t mean he/they are raving traditionalists.
So, while I would wholeheartedly agree that if what you have reported really does betray “racism”, that would be very serious indeed, and would send them running for cover if it were to be reported in a secular context as opposed to “merely” the Catholic Truth blog. I suspect, however, that the seeming “racism” hides the deeper, real reason for the antipathy towards these priests, that they are rather more orthodox in their beliefs that the rest of the clergy in any given diocese. THAT, I have no trouble believing – not for a second.
For the benefit of new bloggers like Liam, I should mention that we are in the habit of closing threads at the end of each month. I’m very late in closing the March and April threads (since we’re nearly at the end of May!) so apologies for that, but my tardiness has at least allowed us to catch up with the correspondence about the Diocese of Hallam. Thank you for that, Liam.
The General Discussion thread is always available if there are any developments, but for now, it’s goodbye to Hallam, with a sincere thank you to all who contributed to this important thread – especially Liam!
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