General Discussion (11)

General Discussion (11)

If there’s something of interest in the news that’s not covered in one of the topic threads, or you have a question to ask, a comment you’d like to  make about anything under the sun, more or less, this is the thread for you. However, please check first, to ensure that you haven’t missed a topic thread or another thread where it would be appropriate to post your comment, as the GD discussion threads fills up very quickly.  Readers, all too often, go straight to the General Discussion thread to post news that is already the topic of a thread or to ask a question that is already being discussed elsewhere. So, do your Sherlock Holmes – at the very least check the side-bar – before posting here, please and thank you!

Join in the conversation
Join in the conversation

Feel free, also, to share your favourite spiritual reading books, prayers and devotions. Whatever.   Enjoy! 

To read previous 10 General Discussion Threads, click on the links listed below.
(1)
click here  (2) click here  (3) click here  (4) click here  (5) click here
(6) click here 
(7) click here  (8) click here (9) click here (10) click here

Comments (486)

  • Fidelis

    Helen,

    My understanding is that contraception is part of the moral order and is unchangeable. So the Church is just repeating that moral teaching which has always been believed by Christians. It was only challenged in very recent history.

    I thought this article might help you – I don’t think it’s what you call a dogma, but it is infallible teaching that it is immoral to use contraception.
    https://www.ewtn.com/library/Theology/AUTHUMVT.HTM

    July 11, 2016 at 5:54 pm
  • Helen

    Thanks Fidelis. I always knew it was morally wrong but found it hard to explain. That quote from St. Peter where it says: “always be ready to account for the hope that is in you” has always bothered me. Made me feel guilty not to be prepared to be able to do just that.

    July 13, 2016 at 6:10 pm
  • Christina

    Does anyone know anything about John Horvat and his organisation? Stuff comes by email, all of it good, like this, but I don’t know how I came to be on the mailing list.

    http://www.returntoorder.org/2014/07/saint-thomas-say-immigration-2/

    July 14, 2016 at 1:22 am
    • editor

      Christina,

      That seems to be a very good article on St Thomas Aquinas and immigration, but in the biography section, we read the following:

      “Mr. Horvat is vice president and a member of the board of directors for the American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property (TFP), head of the TFP Commission for American studies, a TFP Sedes Sapientiae Institute instructor, and webmaster of the American TFP website (www.tfp.org). Additionally, Mr. Horvat is a member of the Association of Christian Economists, The Philadelphia Society, the National Association of Scholars, and the Catholic Writers Guild, as well as an Acton University participant.

      His research began in 1986 when he was invited by Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, founder of the Brazilian TFP, to study the crisis of modern economy and to prepare a conservative response. Mr. Horvat continues studying and writing and is now one of the most sought after experts on the subject.”

      If you check out our recent thread on the Tradition, Family, Property (TFP) organisation, I think you will agree that, generally speaking, they ought to be avoided. I have unsubscribed from the America Needs Fatima group which is run by the TFP, for example, and would not, personally, purchase any of their works.

      July 14, 2016 at 9:04 am
  • Summa

    After my short stay in Glasgow recently, I have to say that the parish has a cracking wee tea stall, absurdly inexpensive… but what happened to the legendary soup? 🙂

    July 14, 2016 at 2:44 am
    • editor

      Summa,

      It was great to see you there and to meet your wife and mother in law.

      We’ve never had soup in all the years I’ve been going to the Glasgow chapel. Only tea, coffee, biscuits and crisps. The Edinburgh chapel serves a variety of hot dishes, probably including soup, so I maybe you’ve been there at some point, and your memory is playing tricks?

      July 14, 2016 at 8:55 am
      • Summa

        I must have read it somewhere. Perhaps it was the Edinburgh parish. Soup and a roll. That’s the reason I came! I had a perfectly good Clown Mass lined up too. If only I had known 😇

        July 14, 2016 at 9:44 am
      • Fidelis

        Summa,

        LOL! You can always go to y our Clown Mass next week! I wonder if they do soup and a roll? LOL!

        July 14, 2016 at 10:27 am
  • Gerontius

    Right on time for Pope Francis’ upcoming Lutheran buffoonery!

    Here’s the latest bilge concerning the women priests brigade.

    http://eponymousflower.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/excommunicated-priestesses-invited-to.html

    The pernicious fruits of Ecumenism are ripening.

    These people would actually dare to put woman in front of our Blessed Mother. Iv’e long suspected that the reason Russia hasn’t been Consecrated to Her Immaculate Heart is due to that Modernist abomination known as Ecumenism.

    July 15, 2016 at 3:36 pm
    • Margaret Mary

      Gerontius,

      I agree about ecumenism being at the root of the women priests movement. I am appalled (but not surprised) that the Vatican is willing to meet with reps from that movement. It’s pointless to take their petition, because the excommunications can’t be lifted while they cling to their heresy, but it’ll make a good headline in the liberal press. LOL!

      July 15, 2016 at 4:26 pm
  • Spero

    There have been Cardinals speaking out on Amoris Laetitia and other matters. In this blog itself Cardinals Burke, Brandmuller, and Caffara are given, as examples of Cardinals saying openly what they believe.
    Now Cardinal Sara is advocating what will be dear to the hearts of bloggers here.
    It cannot be easy, in the present climate, to fly your colours. Is there more to be lost in terms of influence, than there us to be gained! You may be relegated to the third division. And then some!
    I can think of an outspoken blogger priest who seems to have ‘disappeared’ off the radar.
    Father Ray Blake now has been critical of Cardinal Nicholls. Brave priest! His blog posts are among the best going, I think; personal, thoughtful, accurate.
    I’d hate them to ‘disappear’. What influence would he have then? Would WE do anything then on his behalf?
    It’s not easy in the present stranglehold being exerted ruthlessly on the Church, for priests at any level to take ‘them’ on.
    I’m not sure I’d have the courage. Maybe some of you are.
    Let’s hope and pray that when the chips are finally down, there are priests and lay people who have the courage to walk away from the heresy.

    July 15, 2016 at 6:06 pm
    • RCA Victor

      Spero,

      It cannot be easy to fly your colours…

      I’ve been thinking lately about the sentence that introduces the Third Secret: “In Portugal, the dogma of the faith will be preserved, etc.” I’m wondering if the “Spanish” priests who write for the Denzinger-Bergoglio site, albeit anonymously, are fulfilling that prophecy (and thus whether they are really Spanish, or perhaps Portuguese). Here is their rationale on the English site for remaining anonymous:

      Why have we chosen to remain anonymous? Well, just like our Spanish counterparts, we do not want to give our Bishops problems. It is already not easy to be a Bishop these days… With their consent, but shielding them from any possible repression, we happily make time for this translation – between already too many pastoral obligations – out of love for the Church and for the good of souls.

      At any rate, their excellent analysis of one of the more outrageous statements in AL: https://en.denzingerbergoglio.com/the-church-does-not-disregard-the-constructive-elements-in-those-situations-which-do-not-yet-or-no-longer-correspond-to-her-teaching-on-marriage/#Francis

      July 16, 2016 at 5:46 pm
    • editor

      Spero,

      Fr Ray Blake hasn’t gone anywhere. His blog is where it always is – right here !

      I’ve just paid a flying visit and pleased to see that he lists the “Traditional Latin Mass” with no mention of “Extraordinary Form” that I can see, so that’s both unusual and wonderful, latter due to former! He obviously knows that it’s a huge mistake to use the language of the enemy!

      Your argument about whether by “outing” themselves the sound priests (? how many? Not many in Scotland, be assured) somehow diminish their influence.

      Well, there has to be a prudential judgment made by individual priests, I suppose, but my own gut feeling is that if more priests stand up to be counted, it could only be a good thing, and that Divine Providence would protect them, with that one hundred fold reward for those who put Christ first, before anything else, including the good opinion of their bishop.

      July 18, 2016 at 12:48 am
      • RCA Victor

        Editor,

        I wasn’t sure if I should post this on the “Two Religions” thread, but I continue to wonder about the Third Secret phrase, “In Portugal the dogma of the faith will be preserved, etc.”

        Ignoring my reply to Spero for a moment, why Portugal, when it has been the SSPX, internationally, that has been preserving the dogma of the faith?

        July 18, 2016 at 2:25 pm
      • editor

        RCA Victor,

        My own theory about that phrase is as follows:

        Our Lady spoke of Portugal because that is where she appeared to the children.

        However, I’ve always doubted – and friends who have visited Portugal have confirmed – that it doesn’t seem to have kept the Faith much better than any other part of the world.

        The answer to the question, what did Our Lady actually say, in full, therefore, has to lie on what followed, i.e. what replaces the “etc”. How does this grab you…

        “In Portugal the dogma of the faith will be preserved where the traditional Mass is preserved and the authentic Catholic faith taught, as will be the same around the world.”

        Well? What do you think? Am I a Fatima expert now or what?

        If you say “or what” you’re in trouble 😀

        July 18, 2016 at 4:45 pm
      • RCA Victor

        Editor,

        What, a Fatima expert? 🙂 But seriously, your reply makes sense. Have you been reading the Capovilla envelope again?

        July 18, 2016 at 5:34 pm
      • editor

        RCA Victor,

        Have I been reading the Capovilla envelope? You kidding?
        I’m too busy ready envelopes which say “return to sender, do not send this newsletter to me again”!

        July 18, 2016 at 6:55 pm
      • Petrus

        I remember someone asked Fr Gruner this in Glasgow and he said that this means that there will be some countries around the world where the Faith will disappear completely.

        July 18, 2016 at 8:48 pm
      • editor

        Petrus,

        That’s a separate matter. Portugal has NOT kept the dogma of the Faith any more than anywhere else, which is what makes the “etc” so important.

        July 18, 2016 at 9:35 pm
  • Spero

    Editor
    I wasn’t referring to Fr Ray Blake as the blogging priest who seems no longer to comment on this Papacy.
    I was referring to another, and meant that I would hate Fr Blake to be similarly brought to heel, in whatever way outspoken priests are censured .
    Fr Blake will long ago have lost the good opinion of his bishop. Bishops can make things very difficult for priests.
    And no, there are not many who are outspoken publicly in Scotland.

    RCA Victor
    Denzinger Bergoglio are brilliant but anonymous ( for whatever reason they give) and that is precisely the point. They are anonymous. Maybe they have decent bishops but maybe they are a afraid.
    The blogging priests, with names, are very courageous.

    July 18, 2016 at 2:46 pm
    • editor

      Spero,

      I’d need to know the name of the priest you think has disappeared – if it’s Fr Michael Clifton, well, he caved in to threats of legal action from Monsignor Loftus years ago when Mgr Loftus threatened to sue because Fr Clifton had allowed a blogger to call him a heretic. Well, he IS a heretic, so that’s one law suit that would have gone nowhere. Mgr Loftus was bullying Fr Clifton, as he has bullied others, so it’s a pity Fr C, caved in to his threats and closed down his blog. Click here to read one of the many accounts about the matter published on the internet at the time.

      If it’s not Fr Clifton, you’ll need to spell it out – I can’t think of anyone else in England. There are, of course, no sound priest bloggers in Scotland.

      As for “not many (priests) are outspoken publicly in Scotland” – not many? Name one, please and thank you.

      July 18, 2016 at 4:47 pm
  • Spero

    The priest I am thinking of is still blogging, but the blog has taken a quite different tack, and this priest was also moved. Another priest, with a quite different theological perspective, was assigned to his parish. Voila!
    No, there are not any Scottish priests who invade the public square; or have a blog; or write a column in the press. But there are some ( and I can’t be everywhere, so there may be a lot more) who do proclaim the truths of the Faith, and they are not the most popular people on the planet.

    July 18, 2016 at 7:49 pm
    • editor

      Well if he is still blogging, what’s the mystery? I think I know who you mean, no big deal. None of the blogger priests are ever going to be linking to us, so they’re safe enough!

      July 18, 2016 at 8:03 pm
  • gabriel syme

    Goodness, I certainly hope this news report is wrong:

    Eponymous Flower says the media is reporting that Balloon-Schonborn is to replace Cardinal Muller at the CDF, with the later being farmed out to be Archbishop of Mainz.

    The news report is from Kuala Lumpar (!?) and so we can probably doubt its veracity.

    http://eponymousflower.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/newspaper-cardinal-muller-to-be.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheEponymousFlower+(The+Eponymous+Flower)

    July 19, 2016 at 12:27 pm
  • editor

    Gabriel Syme,

    I’ve only taken a quick look at that article. There’s always a chance that it is one of these increasingly “popular” spoofs but I now find them irritating. Partly because they could so easily be true! The joke, in other words, is no longer funny.

    July 19, 2016 at 2:19 pm
  • editor

    Spero,

    Before the election of Pope Francis, I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly.

    However, I stand by what I wrote at 11.56 am.

    For example, the very fact that we had several priests publicly advertised as speaking at our recent Conference, with none of them being hauled before the Sanhedrin (so to speak!) or suffering – so far at least – for associating with rebels like us, is a huge advance.

    You may recall that on previous occasions when we advertised events involving priests – and one was merely an afternoon of Advent reflections, to be given by a priest friend of my family, who could never be described as “traditional” (if only); the other a “Day with Mary”, led by a Glasgow priest in a church in the archdiocese of Edinburgh, thanks to a friendly Edinburgh priest – all Hell broke loose, with the hierarchy directly involved, west coast and east coast respectively, contacting the priests to warn of dire consequences if they did not withdraw from our event or, in the case of the priest permitting us the use of his church, refuse the use of his church for the honour of Our Lady, since we were doing the honouring. Unbelievable. If the Church of Scotland, or the Church of Anytown, Anywhere, had booked the church for a ecumenical shindig, there’s no way the Cardinal would have stepped in to prevent the gathering.

    That didn’t happen this time. The Bishops are much more relaxed now; the majority of the clergy have been bought. The few others, well, who cares? What “damage” can they do, really?

    And I think that is, more likely than not, the attitude adopted towards the English blogger priests. “Let them go, let them tarry”… The revolutionaries are winning (or so they think!) So, no big deal…

    Teachers, however, are, I believe, a very different kettle of trouble. They have to be kept in check or they’ll be telling the kids that Catholic Tradition is the litmus test. We can’t have that! So, they really are at risk; however, the clergy, for the most part, don’t have too much to fear from our lukewarm-through-to-apostate bishops – or so it seems to me… moi.

    July 19, 2016 at 6:52 pm
  • Spero

    Editor
    There is perhaps a difference between the priests at your conference this time and the previous occasions when priests were to be involved. Is it not so that in the cases before, Cardinal O’Brien was in charge?
    While others in the hierarchy may not have been orthodox, the Cardinal positively hated traditional leanings, and his influence was powerful.
    Scotland is free of that now……..largely.
    But look, I agree with you that more priests could be seen and heard in the public square.
    They need to “screw their courage to the sticking place” and place their hope in the rightness and justice of what they believe, and in Whom they believe.

    July 19, 2016 at 9:50 pm
    • editor

      Spero,

      Certainly Cardinal O’Brien was responsible for the Edinburgh cancellation. He, personally, phoned the parish priest to tell him that it was not going to happen.

      The west coast culprit was Archbishop Conti who went to extreme lengths to prevent our humble Afternoon of Advent Reflections, and the priest concerned was utterly flabbergasted. He had communications from the Archbishop himself and from the then chancellor; Father told them that he was in the habit of giving retreats to all sorts of groups and never once had he experienced anything like this attempt to scupper the event. He also said that if, as the Archbishop & Chancellor claimed, we were very bad people (I paraphrase, of course – I’m sure their language was much stronger!) then surely they should be sending for us to explain where we were (are!) going wrong. We’re still awaiting the invitation!

      Clearly, Archbishop Tartaglia has taken a different approach, wise man, but I think it has more to do with the fact that they are now Rome-approved in their Modernist running of the archdiocese, and nothing to do with tolerating the true and undiluted Faith being preached openly at a public event run by CT.

      Having said that, although there were archdiocesan priests present at our Conference, they were not publicly advertised as speakers. Now, THAT may bring a whole new situation into play. Might be worth testing out… Watch this space!

      July 20, 2016 at 5:46 pm
  • RCA Victor

    I received a newsletter the other day from our US District Superior, which contained the very surprising note that the faithful in our District number only 25,000! I suppose I expected there were many more, given that we have so many locations around the country, but it seems we are truly the “remnant”!

    July 20, 2016 at 4:41 pm
    • editor

      RCA Victor,

      Only an American could say “only” and “25,000” in the same sentence!

      July 20, 2016 at 5:49 pm
      • RCA Victor

        Editor,

        At any rate, a number much smaller than the population of Glasgow…though I haven’t been able to verify that….

        July 20, 2016 at 11:39 pm
    • Vianney

      RCA Victor, I thought I had read, somewhere on the blog, a post which said the US was, numerically, the largest district in the SSPX. I thought this was rather strange as I was always under the impression it was France, especially as St. Nicolas du Chardonett alone has a good few thousand attending it’s five Sunday Masses.

      July 21, 2016 at 9:32 am
      • RCA Victor

        Vianney,

        Don’t know – maybe Father meant 25,000 registered parishioners? I suppose there are quite a few hearing our Masses who attend anonymously…we’re such dangerous people, you know, keeping Tradition and all that….

        July 21, 2016 at 2:54 pm
  • RCA Victor

    Editor,

    Our next discussion thread? https://en.denzingerbergoglio.com/2016/07/21/ill-intentioned-intentions/

    (the Pope’s July Intentions video, that is).

    July 21, 2016 at 11:04 pm
    • editor

      RCA Victor,

      I know we’re overdue a new thread but I’ve been away from my computer all day and now need to head for the pubs and clubs 😀

      Tomorrow, we sincerely hope, is another day so watch this space!

      Next morning…

      New thread posted now. Click here

      Catholic Truth at your service!

      July 22, 2016 at 12:00 am
  • Summa

    You must fight this. This plague is already in Australia.It is akin to grooming youth for sexual deviance.
    A spokeswoman for the Catholic Church in Scotland said: “The Church is working with the Catholic Head Teacher associations to ensure that all teachers have adequate knowledge, understanding and training and feel confident in addressing all aspects of relationships education, including LGBTI+ matters, in an appropriate and sensitive way.”
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14624130.Meet_the_pioneering_Scots_teachers_putting_LGBTI_issues_front_and_centre_in_the_classroom/?ref=rss

    July 22, 2016 at 10:39 pm
    • editor

      Summa,

      I’ve been hearing about this from teachers who are faced with the dilemma of being forced – by the Church authorities! – to participate in this normalising and de facto approval of the LGBTI (what the heck is the ‘I’ and why do they keep adding on new categories? Don’t answer – strictly rhetorical)

      Either the Catholic education people/bishops are thick and don’t realise that this nonsense about “discrimination” and “bullying” is merely the excuse to promote the depravity of the LGBT (I!) lifestyle, or they are approving of it. My money is on the latter.

      July 22, 2016 at 11:40 pm
  • editor

    This thread, having reached the 500 comments mark, is now closed. Click here to reach the new, current General Discussion.

    Note, too, that the important news, of the complicity of the Catholic Church in Scotland in the promotion of LGBT issues in Scottish Catholic schools, posted by Summa above, will be the subject of a fresh discussion thread within a day or two, so hang fire on that topic, for the moment.

    Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread.

    July 23, 2016 at 12:00 am

Comments are closed.


%d bloggers like this: