General Discussion (12)editor
If there’s something of interest in the news that’s not covered in one of the topic threads, or you have a question to ask, a comment you’d like to make about anything under the sun, more or less, this is the thread for you. However, please check first, to ensure that you haven’t missed a topic thread or another thread where it would be appropriate to post your comment, as the GD discussion threads fills up very quickly. Readers, all too often, go straight to the General Discussion thread to post news that is already the topic of a thread or to ask a question that is already being discussed elsewhere. So, do your Sherlock Holmes – at the very least check the side-bar – before posting here, please and thank you!
Feel free, also, to share your favourite spiritual reading books, prayers and devotions.Whatever. Enjoy!
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I have been a ‘lurker’ for many a day, but not gone away.
If someone has already spotted this item my apologies. To say it is beyond belief, when it comes from the so-called worlds greatest democracy, I suggest we read it an weep.
Incidentally the the corrupt spelling of his Irish name is really apposite!
I’m very pleased that you have returned to join us – a thousand welcomes!
Now, someone accused me (by email) of “bullying” you and I was (and remain) nonplussed. If you’ve been “lurking” here for a while, you’ve probably worked it out that while we engage, often, in robust discussions and disagreements, we don’t DO bullying! Aren’t these popular sayings downright daft? “Get a life” (to a living, breathing person!) and “I don’t DO this or that…” Crackers!
Anyway, if we find ourselves embroiled in disputation at all, please be assured there is nothing personal intended. Even if I call you a daft *****£££££))))) it’s nothing personal! 😀
Hi Waterside, glad to see you are still with us! 🙂
Having noticed the increasing use of the noun ” Shill ” and being unsure of its meaning, I Found this very interesting definition here:
Shill – Wikipedia, the free encyclopaedia
A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization. Shills can carry out their operations in the areas of media, journalism, marketing or other business areas. A shill may also act to discredit opponents or critics of the person or organization in which they have a vested interest through character assassination or other means.
Shill typically refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that they are an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller (or marketer of ideas) for whom they are secretly working. The person or group who hires the shill is using crowd psychology to encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services (or accept the ideas being marketed). Shills are often employed by professional marketing campaigns. Plant and stooge more commonly refer to any person who is secretly in league with another person or organization while pretending to be neutral or actually a part of the organization he is planted in, such as a magician’s audience, a political party, or an intelligence organizationn.
Ring any bells?
I have to confess I’ve never head the word “shill” but that’s an interesting definition. Do you mean it reminds you of Freemasons? I’m probably being thick again! LOL!
“Do you mean it reminds you of Freemasons?”
Exactly so, Josephine, it does – and I suspect there are a great many in the higher echelons of the Vatican. Their Modernist fruits are easily discernible ie Liberty, Equality and Fraternity – which in the Church manifests as Religious Freedom of conscious (Liberty), Equality (Feminism and Collegiality) and Fraternity (Ecumenism, were all Gods Children)
I could be one of them there shills – easily! Pretend I’m buying fresh fruit and flowers in Asda, to push up sales.
I wonder if it pays well?!
Oops, just seen your reply to Josephine – nope: I’ll never be a Freemason; I don’t DO aprons! My shrink told me it’s because I associate aprons with housework and it sends me into a tizzy… 😀
Its too hot here to type straight !
That’s another terrible scandal, a Catholic standing alongside Hillary Clinton who is pro-abortion, even defended the Planned Parenthood people when they sold baby body parts. How shocking.
I notice you seem to have typed the link but you don’t need to do that. You can place your curser over the link in your browser, top of page, and then right click to “copy” and then “paste” it here. It’s much easier and quicker than typing the whole link.
N O T I C E . . .
Our regular contributor, The Blogger Christina, emailed me today to let me know that she was emergency admitted to hospital last night. Today she has been undergoing tests and although she is going home tomorrow for a few days, due to her Consultant being away, she has to return to hospital for two more procedures under General Anaesthetic.
When I asked her if I ought to ask for bloggers’ prayers, she replied: “Yes PLEASE; bloggers’ prayers would be wonderful, and just what the doctor ordered, as it were!”
So, despite suffering all that she is suffering at the moment, clearly, Christina has not lost her sense of humour.
Let’s all remember her in our prayers until we hear that she has been given the all-clear.
Many thanks for alerting us to Christina’s circumstances.
Please be assured of my prayers for your complete recovery. Remember, when one of us suffer, we all suffer with you – you are not alone!
Please accept my kindest and warmest regards in Our Lord
Editor – many thanks for the alert.
Christina – please get well soon – I’m sure you’ll be on top pay soon (say nothing – just a very strong hunch) so waste no time in getting back on the job. Be assured of my prayers for your swift recovery. God bless xxx
Prayers and best wishes Christina. Hope you soon feel better.
Christina, you are in my prayers. I hope you are soon on the mend. God bless.
The Blessed Sacrament – the most Sublime and Sacred Treasure of the Holy Catholic Church is subjected almost every day now, to sacrilege, outrage and indifference following the introduction of the novus ordo rite.
Communion in the hand, dropped CONSECRATED HOSTS, unconsecrated hands touching Our Lords Sacred Person, little or no silence, recollection or adoration, idle gossip and even arguments in his presence, immodest attire… You get the picture.
How has this come about? Ecumenism of course!
“Ecumenism” St. Maximilian Kolbe wrote, “is the enemy of the Immaculate.”
It is therefore from the Devil, and also the consequences of allowing heretical protestant input into Paul VI and Bugnini’s Novus Ordo Mass.
Archbishop Lefebvre said the following:
As for myself, I do not want people to make me say that the New Mass is good, but that it is simply less good than the Traditional Mass. I cannot say that. I cannot say that these modern sacraments are good. They were made by Protestants. They were made by Bugnini. And Bugnini himself said on March 19, 1965, as can still be read in the “Osservatore Romano” and in “Documentation Catholique,” which magazines published a translation of Bugnini’s discourse:
“We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren, that is for the Protestants.”
The consequences of ignoring Mortalium Animos are now self evident.
I read somewhere that we, the laity, don’t have a correct understanding of ecumenism – utter garbage!
Immutable Truth cannot dialogue with the partisans of heresy and error, since that would put the Devil on an equal basis with Our Lord. The truth must be defended and error refuted at all times and in all places. Thanks be to God for the SSPX WHERE THINGS ARE AS THEY SHOULD BE AND OUR LORD IS LOVED AND RESPECTED.
“A Catholic priest asked that pro-abortion Vice Presidential nominee Tim Kaine “do us both a favor” and not show up in his Communion line.
If only more priests would follow this good example from Father Thomas Petri OP. He says “I takes canon 915 seriously.” Good on him.
Yesterday’s Lifesitenews also reports a USA Bishop pointing out that it’s not possible to be a Catholic and pro-abortion etc.
“Bishops Thomas Tobin of the Diocese of Providence, Rhode Island, posted a message on Facebook that was so popular it received over 1,000 shares:
VP Pick, Tim Kaine, a Catholic?
Democratic VP choice, Tim Kaine, has been widely identified as a …Catholic. It is also reported that he publicly supports “freedom of choice” for abortion, same-sex marriage, gay adoptions, and the ordination of women as priests. All of these positions are clearly contrary to well-established Catholic teachings; all of them have been opposed by Pope Francis as well.
Senator Kaine has said, “My faith is central to everything I do.” But apparently, and unfortunately, his faith isn’t central to his public, political life.
Oh My dear God, look at this:
I was just coming on to post that Crofterlady, what a shocking and barbaric incident.
Governments must now take firm action, Islamic savagery is becoming the norm in European countries and this cannot go on.
Typically, the quisling BBC states that:
There was no immediate indication of the identity or motive of the hostage-takers
Which is a lie, because at least one of the men was in Islamic dress according to other news outlets.
The Herald is now reporting that the Islamic State has claimed responsibility for the attack.
And here’s the response of the Scottish Bishops’ Conference – as ever, at pains not to mention Islam in any “negative” way, Islam being, of course, a peaceful religion…
To Mgr Dominique Lebrun, Archbishop of Rouen.
I write to express the deep sorrow and shock of the Catholics of Glasgow and Scotland at the news of the horrific attack on the church in Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray.
We are truly appalled at the series of attacks which have been perpetrated on France and her people over recent weeks. This latest incident represents a new and shocking development – namely the attack on people engaged in the worship of God in a sacred place.
We pray for the repose of the soul of the priest killed and for the recovery of those injured. We pray for the people of France, Germany and other places so cruelly targeted by men of evil intent in recent weeks.
May God have mercy on us all.
Yours in solidarity and prayer,
Archbishop of Glasgow, President of the Bishops’ Conference of Scotland
Your Grace, why don’t you mention the elephant in the room, ide est, Islam, Muslims?
Not all Muslims are jihadists but all jihadists are Muslims.
What a truly hideous crime! We have been travelling around France for the last fortnight and it has saddened me to see the secularisation that has overtaken this once Catholic country. So very many places given saints names, so many churches but so few priests. Only yesterday we looked for Mass times in quite a big village only to find notice of a monthly service there and no mention at all of any daily Masses. This poor martyred priest was saying a weekday Mass…with a very tiny congregation I read. I fear that there is no defence against the lone wolf terrorist or the madmen of Isis. May God help us all.
We’ve had this discussion before – about the distinction between murder and martyrdom.
Lamentable and shocking as it is, the death of this priest does not constitute martyrdom. He was murdered in cold blood. As far as we know, there is no evidence that he chose to die in defence of the Faith or any Christian virtue. That’s, I believe, the key difference which makes someone a martyr, as opposed to someone killed in a religious setting.
You are right to describe this murder as a truly hideous crime. Utterly shocking.
I am sure you are correct in the distinction between murder and martyrdom. I did read that the priest was attempting to stop the terrorists from profaning the altar however. It is a moot point.
I didn’t know that – well, martyr or not, that will stand him in very good stead with Our Lord, no question about it.
May he rest in peace.
This article from the SSPX website is of much interest, in the matter of Fr Hamel’s death – copied below for ease of reference:
Regardless of Fr. Hamel’s official status as martyr or victim, Catholics in the West should now prepare for a renewed threat from Islam
“As most Catholics around the world know by now, Father Jacques Hamel was killed at a church in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray in the Normandy region of France on July 26, 2016 by two perpetrators claiming to represent the Islamic State (or ISIS). According to reports, the assailants took Fr. Hamel, two nuns, and two churchgoers hostage during Mass before slitting Fr. Hamel’s throat. Another hostage also had his throat slit, though he is thankfully expected to survive.
Many Catholics are heralding Fr. Hamel as the first priest-martyr of 21st Century. An official press release from the Society of St. Pius X’s French District Superior, Fr. Christian Bouchacourt, calls attention to the fact that Fr. Hamel was killed out of hatred for the Catholic Faith (odium fidei), a position supported by Archbishop Anthony Fisher of Sydney, Australia. Here are the bishop’s words.
We cannot ignore the fact that [this was] a targeted attack on our Christian faith. The two terrorists meant to go into a Catholic church. They meant to kill a priest of Jesus Christ. They meant to take nuns and faithful laity as hostages. They were not just looking for any old building with any old people inside.”
And the terrorists underlined the meaning of their act by engaging in a ritual sacrifice of the priest before the altar and a mock homily. So their act was not just murder but also sacrilege, desecration, blasphemy. Their motive not just revenge for the policies of the secular French government, but hatred for the Church and its priests and religious and faithful[.]”
The learned moral theologian Dominic Prummer, O.P., defines martyrdom as follows:
Martyrdom is the endurance of bodily death in witness to the Christian religion. Therefore three conditions must be verified for martyrdom: a) actual death; b) the infliction of death by an enemy out of hatred for Christianity; c) the voluntary acceptance of death. — Therefore the following are not genuinely martyrs: those who die by contracting disease in their care of lepers, those who suffer death for natural truths or for heresy, or who [indirectly] bring about their own death to safeguard their person. — The effect of martyrdom is the remission of all sin and punishment, since it is an act of perfect charity.”
Although a full investigation by the proper authorities is still underway, it is clear that the first two elements of Christian martyrdom have been satisfied in Fr. Hamel’s case. That alone should send a powerful message to all Christians living in the West that they are not beyond the reach of radical Islamists seeking to destroy the Church. In other words, Muslim violence against Christians—including priests and religious—is not some “faraway problem” confined to the Middle East. Moreover, pure political or socio-economic explanations for Muslim-on-Christian violence cannot suffice. As Christians have known for more than 1,000 years, the diabolical religion of the false prophet Mohammad remains ever-set against the Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ. (For more on this, see the July 2015 issue of The Angelus, including the articles “What Is Islam?” and “The Christian East Under Islam.”)
In these distressing times we must look to Our Lady, the Blessed Virgin Mary, for protection and strength, especially if the terrible hour should come where we are targeted for the Faith. Send supplications as well to the mighty saints of France, including Hilary of Poitiers, Martin of Tours, and Joan of Arc, for the liberation of their land from the threat of militant Islam.” Source
Our French blogger, Lionel, has just emailed as follows:
…la mosquée de Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray – qui avait été inaugurée en 2000 – a été construite sur une parcelle de terrain offerte par la paroisse catholique de la ville…
Le Père Jacques Hamel, et nous le croyons sincère dans sa démarche, « échangeait » régulièrement avec les croyants musulmans de son quartier et faisait partie d’un « comité interconfessionnel depuis 18 mois où ils discutaient de religion et de savoir-vivre ensemble »…
…The mosque in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray – which was inaugurated in 2000 – was built on a plot of land offered by the Catholic parish of the city…
Father Jacques Hamel, and and we believe he was sincere in his approach, “traded” regularly with Muslim believers in his neighbourhood and has been part of an “Interfaith Committee for 18 months where he and his Muslim fellow friends discussed religion and manners together”. MCI Médias-Catoliques Info
What can I say? Pray for the soul of Fr Jacques Hamel. May he rest in peace.
And look, Your Grace, The Remnant is saying the same things as myself and other real Catholics:
I was just saying exactly the same thing on the phone to a friend. When will someone – and I include Pope Francis – say that this was yet another murder committed by [yet another] Muslim?
Now, before I end up on the front page of the nearest tabloid, allow me to stress that I know perfectly well that not all Muslims are murdering terrorists; that the majority, in fact, are no doubt perfectly good people who wouldn’t dream of participating in these murderous rampages.
Still, that Remnant report struck a chord. Everyone, media, churchmen, A & S (all and sundry) are tiptoeing around the elephant in the room and all the while the elephant is getting bigger and bigger and harder to ignore…
This morning, our French blogger, Lionel, emailed me as follows (with permission to post here if I thought worthwhile):
“…and the executive persists and signs!!! in this village they had built a salafist mosque at taxpayer expense!
Muslims do not care about dividing us, they want to submit us as they have always intended…
By the way, a police officer was surprised to find two Master-Cards belonging to asylum seekers arrested in the act of stealing vehicles, and the cards were issued by the Ministry of Interior to allow them to withdraw 40 Euros per day!
With great sadness LD ” END OF MESSAGE FROM LIONEL.
Lionel subsequently emailed me a copy of the Mastercard published over there – it wouldn’t copy here but I Googled and found it online anyway – with text attached in French (obviously!)
Here’s Christopher Ferrara’s brilliant analysis of the latest power grab from Pope Francis, against the cloistered convents: http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/f70bcbd8b6f6427b1f35304478423830-616.html
My favorite line is this: “Francis is once again consolidating all power in his own hands. Like any dictator, he preaches freedom while he practices tyranny…”
That report from catholic family news is just terrible! Maybe that was why +Fellay refused to sign on the dotted line….
This Pope is out to destroy the Church! Our Lord won’ t let him, though.
Yes, Spiritus, Him (the Pope) and his lackeys seem to want to destroy the Church. What I can’t understand is why there are not a few towers of strength within the clergy who will stand up to him! It’s all very well bleating about the “orthodox” + Burke, Schneider bishops et al but where are their ACTIONS?
Does our own Archbishop not care about the Church? If he does, why isn’t he acting?
Good news – for once!
Resounding victory against Named Person scheme
I am delighted to tell you that this morning (28 July) five judges of the Supreme Court unanimously ruled that the Scottish Government’s Named Person scheme is unlawful.
Named Person hearing at the UK Supreme Court in March 2016
The Christian Institute’s Duputy Director Simon Calvert (left) and Solicitor Advocate Sam Webster (centre), with friends from the NO2NP campaign, outside the UK Supreme Court for the hearing in March 2016.
Judgment in the case of The Christian Institute and others v The Lord Advocate (Scotland) was written by two Scottish Justices and the Deputy President of the Supreme Court. Another two judges agreed. The Scottish Government has no opportunity to appeal.
This is a historic judgment. It is the first time the Supreme Court has prevented a major piece of legislation passed by the Scottish Parliament from coming into force. The Court has acted to stop a major conflict with our data protection laws.
Under the proposals, every child in Scotland was to be assigned a state guardian to monitor their ‘wellbeing’. This constituted a state-sponsored intrusion into family life – directly undermining the parent-child relationship. It was due to come into force on 31 August.
Vindicating what we have been saying for years, the Court stated that the data sharing provisions of the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act breach the right to a private and family life under article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR).
These provisions, which are central to the scheme, have today been struck down. It was a David and Goliath battle, but we give praise and thanks to our sovereign God who has given us this resounding victory on behalf of families in Scotland.
•The Named Person law was found to be “defective” for breaching the ECHR “right to a private and family life”.
•The lack of safeguards meant it was likely that family confidentiality would frequently be overridden.
•Holyrood exceeded its powers by making a law which allowed public bodies to share sensitive private information about children and parents without their knowledge or consent.
•Consequently the Named Person scheme cannot be brought into force.
•Legal challenges to any unlawful sharing of data under the Named Person pilot schemes may now be possible.
For more information see our website
In a warning to UK legislators for years to come, the Supreme Court judgment even noted that:
“The first thing that a totalitarian regime tries to do is to get to the children, to distance them from the subversive, varied influences of their families, and indoctrinate them in their rulers’ view of the world. Within limits, families must be left to bring up their children in their own way.”
Christian parents would have faced severe difficulties from the scheme, but our gracious God has acted powerfully to preserve the freedom of Christians to bring up their children in the Christian faith.
We are profoundly grateful to our supporters, who have stood with us throughout this long campaign. Thank you for all your prayers, and for your encouragements. Your prayers have been answered!
Our legal bills ran to £270,000. We expect to try and recover a substantial part of the legal costs, but this has yet to be resolved. We will not get back the additional £130,000 we spent on the NO2NP campaign which helped gather crucial evidence from Scottish parents for the case.
If you are in a position to help with our financial needs, you can support our vital work by making a donation.
This is already being discussed on the Catholic schools thread – would you re-post it there?
Regarding the SSPX response to another black mass planned in Oklahoma City on August 15th, I just sent the Archbishop of OKC the following:
Archbishop Paul S. Coakley
Archbishop of Oklahoma City
You are perhaps aware of the Traditional Mass of Reparation being publicly offered by the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) on August 15th, the Feast of the Assumption, in response to yet another black mass and the blasphemous “consumption of Mary” planned by satanists for that feast day. Here is more information about it:
I’ve noted that your public reaction to the previous blasphemies conducted by this virulent group was to suggest that they simply be ignored. This response is about as effective as the New Rite of Exorcism – i.e. not at all. The Church requires that Satan be adjured, not ignored, and I daresay that your strategy thus far is at least partially responsible for the persistence of this evil, because to “ignore” Satan is the same as pretending that he does not exist.
I urge you, your priests and your faithful to publicly promote, and join in the Society’s public Mass of Reparation, thus confronting our ancient enemy head on. Moreover, as I suggested to you last year, to consecrate your Archdiocese to the Immaculate Heart of Mary – and why not on August 15th? – would be to deploy an irresistible spiritual weapon with which to crush the head of this vile group.
Sincerely yours in Christ,
“This response is about as effective as the New Rite of Exorcism – i.e. not at all.”
Great letter – I hope the archbishop replies and that you post it here.
That’s an excellent letter, well done.
You are exactly right to challenge the local Bishop on his (lack of) response.
If Catholic prelates and diocesan structures do not respond to such outrages, then what exactly is the point of their existence at all?
Based on this affair, I expect Archbishop Coakley is someone who always looks for the easy way out / path of least resistance.
Thanks, so far no response from His Excellency. I suspect he is one of those who has been conditioned to be “nice” to everyone, even the mortal enemies of the Church.
I liked this post from Fr Hunwicke, regarding both sedevacantism and ultrapapalism (issues which the posters here also deal with effectively).
He says they are both heresies and in fact opposite sides of the same coin, with the coin being an erroneous premise.
I am glad Fr Hunwicke converted, he is too good for the Church of England! 😉
Has anyone ever read this book by Yves Dupont, published back in the 1970’s by TAN called ‘Catholic Prophecy, the Coming Chastisement’. It is available to read free online here:- https://archive.org/details/CatholicProphecy
I found this very interesting chronological analysis of the current state of affairs between the SSPX and the Modernists in positions of power in Holy Mother Church.
Although it’s been discussed recently, this analysis sheds a clear light on the situation. That splendid and good man Bishop Fellay, knows these modernists and their devious ways all to well – so his position from the articles summary is thus:
Yet Bishop Fellay has already stated that the SSPX will not compromise. Here is the relevant passage: (see here)
“If we have to choose between faith and a compromise, the choice is already made – no compromise!”
Therefore, what is becoming quite clear for all observers of this situation is:
The SSPX will not budge.
Francis desperately needs a reconciliation.
The reason Francis desperately needs reconciliation is in order to gain some sort of control over the SSPX and ring-fence the NORMALIZATION PROCESS™ inside the Ecclesia Dei Commission.
Hence, Diocesan bishops must consult with the Vatican before establishing a diocesan religious order, Pope Francis ruled.
Francis needs to gain control over the SSPX to block off any escape route for the Catholics stuck in NUChurch. Hence, clampdown on contemplative orders.
Francis is planning a repression of the larger Western Church and understands that it will not go as easily as with the suppression of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. Hence, Come una madre amorevole in case of rebellion.
But most importantly, Francis needs to do something IMMEDIATELY since the Restoration is spreading in the Catholic Church, especially in the wealthy Western countries.
The neo-modernist’s who support Francis are freaking out since they see that with their demise, so will end their Novus Ordo NUChurch.
This will end their IDEOLOGICAL life’s work and consign them to not only the trash-heap of history, but will earn them the hatred of future generations of the Faithful.
Therefore, they are leaning on the hapless Francis.
And Francis has backed himself into a corner and has only one option left, and that is the “UNILATERAL RECOGNITION” of the SSPX.
But regardless of what Francis does, he has lost already.
Just like Our Lord promised!
Thanks for linking to that very interesting analysis. However, there are a couple of things about it that I either don’t understand or I disagree with:
1. The destruction of the Church is not and never has been an “ecclesiastical experiment” – which, if it fails, will cause those responsible for it to say “Oh well, we tried, but it didn’t work,” and return to Tradition. No, this project has been planned for at least 300 years, and those who planned and executed it have no intention of going anywhere but deeper into the pit. Simple proof lies in their party line in response to the collapse of the “modernized” Church: “The ‘reforms’ haven’t gone far enough!”
2. I don’t understand how normalizing the SSPX will “ring-fence” the normalization/restoration process within the mainstream Church. Are Novus Ordoers abandoning their parishes and pouring into SSPX chapels en masse? No. Are the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate leaving their Order and joining parallel SSPX orders? No (not that I know of). In other words, this author attempts to tie the growth of the SSPX to the surge of “normalization” in the mainstream Church – but I don’t think these two phenomena are connected in any cause-and-effect situation.
Can you explain how normalizing the SSPX will allow Francis to tighten his grip on the normalizing surge already under his rule?
And as for the ever-present possibility of treachery and betrayal inherent in any deal with Rome, what’s to prevent a normalized SSPX from doing again, in response to betrayal, what Abp. Lefebvre did 40+ years ago – i.e. simply reject the Modernist fiats and forge ahead with Tradition?
Further to our posts of 2nd August when you asked me “Can you explain how normalizing the SSPX will allow Francis to tighten his grip on the normalizing surge already under his rule”?
I delayed answering, hoping that, given the suspicious emanations from the Vatican, that further developments would appear soon. And indeed they have.. This from LifeSiteNews today:
August 10, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) — The Vatican has offered the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) a personal prelature and confirmed that certain documents from the Second Vatican Council are not doctrinal in nature, according to an Italian archbishop tasked with overseeing the canonically irregular group’s return to full Communion with Rome.
Now, as to your question. It’s not easy to try and figure out what the devious Team Bergoglio, and Francis in particular are up to, but while I was perusing the matter the following came to mind:
The SSPX don’t need their approval, since they have never left the church – But Bergoglio NEEDS THEM, possibly in order to give some sort of credence or camouflage to the continued machinations of Francis and Team Bergoglio. Thus, they allowing them to do further damage to Holy Mother Church.
Let’s hope Bishop Fellay adds the total and complete removal of Amoris Laetitia to his demands before he even considers accepting.
It’s not much of an answer mate, but it’s the best I could come up with.
Thanks for that – I thought, though, that Bishop Fellay had said “no deal” for now, due to all the confusion around?
Personally, I’d be delighted if they took a Personal Prelature right now as we need them to be free of the stigma of not being in “full communion” (unlike all the dancing and singing priests – LOL!)
More info coming in. Seems like the usual tripe dressed-up and repackaged. The Hermeneutic of continuity comes to mind.
This from acacatholic:
EXTRACT: (NOTE FIRST TWO WORDS)
These preconditions, together with the obligation to affirm the Creed, the recognition of the Sacraments and of the papal primacy are the basis for the magisterial declaration which the Fraternity has been given to sign. These are the preconditions for a Catholic, in order to be in full communion with the Catholic Church.
END OF EXTRACT
And get this: “These are the preconditions for a Catholic, in order to be in full communion with the Catholic Church.” What!!!- Who do these people think they are? The SSPX ARE in full communion with the Catholic Church – these modernists heretics are usurpers, and in my opinion THEY ARE NOT IN COMMUNION with the church founded by Our Lord since they either alter, reject or ignore the Tradition and doctrine documented and handed down to us from St. Peter, St. Paul and the Apostles.
Bishop Fellay has them sussed! Didn’t he say something about waiting for a Pope who was more open to tradition?
I feel your pain! (you should pardon the expression) However, I note there is nothing new in either the LifeSiteNews article or the 1Peter5 article, and I’m sure the other shoe will drop soon.
But I had to laugh at Abp. Pozzo’s concluding remarks, as quoted in the 1Peter5 article:
“In such a difficult moment of confusion and lack of orientation as we have it today, it is the task of those who want to remain loyal to the tradition of the Church to promote the re-strenghtening of the Christian faith and of the mission. I hope that the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X – when fully integrated – will also thus be able to make its contribution to this missionary apostolate and to the strengthening of the Catholic Faith in our society and in our world.”
As praiseworthy as most of this statement is (the last sentence is ridiculous), I wonder if His Excellency Pozzo realizes that he has just issued a blanket condemnation of Francis’ pontificate?
Brilliant! Your final paragraph is priceless.
There really IS nothing new in this latest claim of a Personal Prelature, and since Bishop Fellay said recently that there would have to be some indication that the Pope really did want to restore Catholic Tradition (I paraphrase), I doubt if this latest report is to be taken seriously, as if a regularisation/Prelature is imminent.
Apparently there are some folks out there – either in the Vatican or in blogdom, or both – who are trying to keep the waters churning for a deal. But I’d say that so far their churning is about as convincing as a certain “Vortex.”
Bishop Fellay has more or less said “No deal for the present”. Michael Matt over at the Remnant Newspaper seems to agree with that, as seen in this link.
The link has a piece of the movie the Outlaw Josey Wales which was last used in another thread quite some time ago and may be applicable today.
Gerontius & RCA Victor
I have always favoured a personal prelature for the SSPX as soon as possible, but I have to say that I am not convinced that now is the right time. Pope Francis is way too liberal a Pope and there are still too many very worrying statements coming from the Vatican. I leave the matter entirely in the hands of Bishop Fellay, but I suspect we will not be seeing the big “reconciliation” during this Pontificate. It’s very difficult to reconcile with a Pope who, according to some of his own statements, has long renounced the Traditional Catholic Faith.
I think you are right. Regularization in the current climate (out-of-control revolution) makes about as much sense as Editor boycotting Columbo re-runs….
Got it in one! I’ve just taped today’s “re-run”!
Arf, Arf, Arf, how predictable.
The cyanide drips, right on time – once this is established, think ye women priests are next?
!! I think an attack on Rome by ISIS is next!
There are allegations of an active homosexual culture at Maynooth seminary, with seminarians alleged to be using gay dating “apps” to arrange meetings.
Dublin Diocese has said it will not be sending seminarians there from now on and (according to the Irish Independent) a second Irish diocese may follow suit.
The mail quotes Archbishop Martin (Dublin) thus:
The most senior Catholic in the Irish Republic said he made the decision some months ago because of an ‘atmosphere that was growing in Maynooth’ exposed through anonymous accusations in letters and online blogs.
He said: ‘There are allegations on different sides.
‘One is that there is a homosexual, a gay culture, that students have been using an app called Grindr, which is a gay dating app, which would be inappropriate for seminarians, not just because they are trained to be celibate priests but because an app like that is something which would be fostering promiscuous sexuality, which is certainly not in any way the mature vision of sexuality one would expect a priest to understand.’
Claims were made that the seminary were dismissing anyone who tried to make an allegation about a gay culture there.
The Archbishop fails to mention that homosexual acts are gravely sinful – it is noticeably missing from his complaints in bold.
Does the Church in Ireland have any credibility left?
I fail to understand why Archbishop Martin thinks his students will be any safer in Rome, as the ‘gay’ subculture is supported there as well. I am personally aware of one man who was still allowed to continue at a seminary in Rome despite evidence of his homosexuality/support for the ‘gay lifestyle’ being presented to the authorities – and the evidence was pretty clear, e.g. screenshots from his (now deleted) Facebook page showing his ‘like’ of ‘gay’ clubs and also his formal involvement on various types of ‘LGBT’ committees. I don’t understand why the Church ignores the relevant instructions of 1961 and 2005:-
The 1961 document http://www.papalencyclicals.net/John23/j23religios.htm states: “Advantage to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers.”
The 2005 document http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Ben16/Instructions.htm states: “Deep-seated homosexual tendencies, which are found in a number of men and women, are also objectively disordered and, for those same people, often constitute a trial. Such persons must be accepted with respect and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. They are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter. In the light of such teaching, this dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practice homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called “gay culture.” Such persons, in fact, find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women. One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies.”
That’s exactly right.
When I read those links you posted I kept thinking of the priest who was in the news not that long ago, he’d worked at the CDF for a long time but had a male “partner”. Surely he must have read those same documents?
There’s something really evil going on in the Church today. No wonder Our Lady came to Fatima to warn us in 1917.
It’s like everything else in the Conciliar Church. They cherry pick all the time. They want some aspects of Catholicism (usually the ones that don’t involve any self-denial or sacrifice) but conveniently ignore what doesn’t suit them.
Just to confirm your statement about the homosexual presence in Rome, one of our priests, who has many friends there, reported to me that Rome was indeed full of them. Franco Bellegrandi’s book NikitaRoncalli claims that this influx began because of Montini.
As to why the Church ignores the instructions of 1961 and 2005, I submit it is because the Church is presently in the hands of those at whom those instructions were directed.
According to this new article, the NP scheme is not quite dead after all: http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/23780-scotland-child-overseers-to-push-homosexuality-gender-confusion
No, it’s not dead – as the SNP spokesmen are shouting from the rooftops here – but a key part of it, sharing data between agencies, has been prohibited.
If your linked report is accurate, and the NP is to be permitted to work with their charge to decide “its” gender, then the parents and the Christian Institute who brought the court case, will, I have no doubt, do all in their power to have this outlawed as well.
And all the while the Scots bishops are sitting on their hands.
Bishop Keenan called on the Scottish Government to think again and amend the scheme. I told him he should be calling on the Scottish Government to scrap it altogether!
Oh isn’t he very brave, calling for the legislation to be amended when the Supreme Court has just commanded the same thing.
The Scottish Bishops, to a man, are about the weakest characters ever to walk the face of the earth.
I think this is one of those occasions where he would have been better off keeping his mouth closed.
I think it’s simply a mark of how worldly these bishops are that they choose to appease the powers that be rather than please God.
I’m beginning to think the bishops should always keep their mouths closed – LOL!
I thought to post this item for the benefit of any Lurkers (or anyone else for that matter) who doubt or disbelieve in Hell, or worse, those who know the truth but fail to inform those for whom they are responsible.
Letter from Beyond
The following was found among the papers left by a nun who died in a convent in Germany. It is not completely clear whether this was a vision or just a vivid dream. It is remarkable that Sister Claire was actually able to read the letter in the dream; in dreams, the written word is too visually unstable to read. Also remarkable about the dream is the orthodoxy of every detail of the letter. (Footnotes indicating Catholic doctrine are provided.) Whether or not this is a private revelation, it is a very poignant meditation on hell.
Let us think of Hell while we are still living, so that we will not fall into it after we die.
In my youth, I had a friend, Anne, who lived near my house. That is to say, we were mutually attached as companions and co-workers in the same office. After Anne married, I never saw her again. We never had what can be called a real friendship, but rather an amiable relationship. For this reason, when she married well and moved to a better neighborhood far from my home, I didn’t really miss her that much.
In mid-September of 1937 I was vacationing at Lake Garda when my mother wrote me this bit of gossip: “Imagine, Anne N. died. She lost her life in an automobile accident. She was buried yesterday in M. cemetery.”
I was shocked by the news. I knew that Anne had never been very religious. Was she prepared when God called her suddenly from this life? The next morning I assisted at Mass in the chapel of the convent boarding house where I was rooming. I prayed fervently for the eternal rest of her soul and offered my Holy Communion for that intention.
Throughout the day I was unsettled, and that night I slept fitfully. Once, I awoke suddenly, hearing something that sounded like my door being opened. Startled, I turned on the light, noting that the time on the clock on my nightstand showed ten minutes after midnight. The house was quiet and I saw nothing unusual. The only sound was from the waves of Lake Garda breaking monotonously on the garden wall. There was no wind. Nonetheless, I thought I heard something else after the rattling of the door, a swooshing sound like something being dropped. It reminded me of when my former office manager was in a bad mood and dropped some problem papers on my desk for me to resolve.
Should I get up and look around? I wondered. But since all remained quiet, it didn’t seem worthwhile. It was probably just my imagination, somewhat overwrought by the news of the death of my friend. I rolled over, prayed several Our Fathers for the Poor Souls in Purgatory, and returned to sleep. I then dreamed that I arose at six to go to morning Mass in the house chapel.
Upon opening the door of my room, I stepped on a parcel containing the pages of a letter. I picked it up and recognized Anne’s handwriting. I cried out in fright. My fingers trembled, and my mind was so shaken I couldn’t even think to say an Our Father. I felt like I was suffocating, and needed open air to breathe. I hastily finished arranging myself, put the letter in my purse, and rushed from the house.
Once outside, I followed a winding path up through the hills, past the olive and laurel trees and the neighboring farms, and then on beyond the famous Gardesana highway. The day was breaking with the brilliant light of the morning sun. On other days, I would stop every hundred steps or so to marvel at the magnificent view of the lake and beautiful Garda Island. The sparkling blue tones of the water delighted me, and like a child gazing with awe at her grandfather, I would gaze with admiration upon the ashen-colored Mount Baldo that rose some 7,200 feet above the opposite shore of the lake.
On this morning, however, I was oblivious to everything around me. After walking a quarter of an hour, I sank mechanically to the ground on the riverbank between two cypress trees where only the day before I had been happily reading a novel, Lady Teresa. For the first time I looked at the cypress trees conscious of them as symbols of death, something I had taken no notice of before, since these trees are quite common here in the south.
I took the letter from my purse. There was no signature, but it was, beyond any doubt, the handwriting of Anne. There was no mistaking the large, flowing S or the French T she made that used to irritate Mr. G. at the office. It was not, however, written in her usual style of speaking, which was so amiable and charming, like her, with those blue eyes and elegant nose. Only when we discussed religious topics did she become sarcastic and take on the rude tone and agitated cadence of the letter I now began to read.
Here, word for word, is the Letter from Beyond of Anne V. as I read it in the dream.
Letter from Beyond
Do not pray for me. I am damned…….
END OF EXTRACT
For remainder see link below.
In a Nutshell
Fatima is a dreadful ultimatum to the world to stop sinning. The enormity of mankind’s rebellion against God and God’s infinite hatred of sin is the foundation of the Fatima message. In His infinite mercy, God gives the world one last hope in the Immaculate Heart of Mary (Vision of Fatima). If you don’t know what happened at Fatima, Portugal in 1917, find out here.
I’ve seen that “letter” so many times I’ve lost count. I just do not believed it and the website you give in the link is one of those that gives the wrong information about Fatima, so they have to scrabble around and find something else to promote in the place of the Consecration and Third Secret. The same “letter” is being circulated by the America Needs Fatima group and we learned a lot about them in a recent blog on this site.
I don’t think it makes any sense for the devil to allow a soul to write a letter warning us not to live bad lives or we’d end up in hell, when that is what he wants – LOL!
What I have always liked about this site at Catholic Truth is that we are advised to stick to what is known for sure, and not to go off on one looking at false apparitions and unapproved messages etc. I would discount that letter, as it cannot be true.
I entirely agree. I didn’t believe it when I first read it, and it seems even sillier on a second perusal. As if Lucifer would allow a damned soul to warn a living being of the reality of Hell. Why would a fox warn a hen of the gap in the fence? Doesn’t make sense, and, as Judge Judy says, if it doesn’t make sense, it isn’t true…
A reader emailed me that letter just the other day, which she’d had sent from America Needs Fatima, and I said more or less word for word what Josephine and you have said. It just doesn’t make sense at all, for Satan to send us messages on how to avoid Hell. Ridiculous.
I read the letter and thought it was crackers!
Me, too, I think this sort of thing brings the Church into disrepute and makes Catholics look like a bunch of idiots who will believe anything. The kind who will reject the dogmatic teaching on Hell are never going to believe such a letter. That will only reinforce their belief that there is no Hell! LOL!
Thanks for reply Josephine.
The purpose of my post was to provide a means for both meditation and evangelisation and was addressed principally to Lurkers, not bloggers. I refer you to my opening lines below.
I thought to post this item for the benefit of any Lurkers (or anyone else for that matter) who doubt or disbelieve in Hell, or worse, those who know the truth but fail to inform those for whom they are responsible.
Whether the “letter” is true or not is irrelevant, but the subject matter, the reality of HELL, is both true and very, very relevant. Hence, my decision to post for both meditation and evangelisation purposes.
“I don’t think it makes any sense for the devil to allow a soul to write a letter warning us not to live bad lives or we’d end up in hell, when that is what he wants – LOL!”
He’d be annoyed certainly, but unfortunately for him he still has to obey.
ARF, ARF, ARF.
I remembered reading that St Teresa of Avila, who is a great Doctor of the Church, had a vision of Hell so I googled to see if I could find it and found it on this video below – it is much more terrifying that the “letter” (watching this, I thought who could ever find enough peace to write a letter! LOL!)
I’m not able to hear anything – I know there must be sound because you talk about not finding enough peace to write a letter – I know it may be (probably is) my sound system that needs attention. I actually copied the embed code and re-posted the video in your comment, to test, but I’ve still got no sound.
Anyway, the main thing is, that yes, that quote comes from the writings of St Teresa of Avila, approved by the Church, so it is reliable where the letter is very definitely not authentic.
America Needs Fatima may as well post something like this:
“Hi there folks, Lucifer here! Just wanted you all to know that I’m taking the day off (Martin Luther and I are going to the beach), so everyone can sin all they want for a day with absolutely no consequences! You have my word on it!”
Have you heard how Christina is progressing after her surgery?
I’ve just heard from Christina who is feeling pretty nervous about returning to hospital early tomorrow morning, 7.30.am to be precise.
She will undergo procedures under GA; her operation is scheduled for 8.30 am.
She’s had a difficult few days, so was touched when I emailed to let her know that you’d asked for her (all the while apologising for my neglect in not emailing earlier.) This is her reply:
“…I need prayers tomorrow, especially at 8.30 am, and also for the following few days. Dear Gerontius, please pass on my thanks to him and the others who promised prayers, and to you, of course. Which thread were they on – I’m lurking, but have forgotten. Will lurk in hospital as well.”
I replied by sending her the link to this thread, and assured her that we would, of course, continue to keep her in prayer.
Our Lady of Lourdes, pray for Christina.
Editor and Christina,
Many thanks for update Editor.
Christina, child of God, be assured of my continuing prayers. My next Holy Communion will be offered for your complete recovery. Don’t be anxious – Our Lady will be holding your hand – hang in there good buddy, we are all with you!
Major Apparitions of St. Joseph Are Approved
Posted by Joseph Pronechen on Friday Aug 5th, 2016 at 3:00 PM
Bishop Supported Major Apparitions of St. Joseph Along with Mary and Jesus in Brazil
Jesus, Mary and Joseph, I give you my heart and my soul
Jesus, Mary and Joseph, assist me in my last agony
Jesus, Mary and Joseph, may I breath forth my soul in peace with you. Amen.
Please be assured of my prayers also. I hope and pray that all goes well and you recover very quickly. God bless you.
May God grant you an anxiety-free and quick recovery! My prayers are with you.
God bless you, Christina, you are in my prayers.
You were in my prayers during Mass today, Christina. I hope you are recovering well. God bless x
Just a reminder to participate in the SSPX’s Rosary Crusade!
Thank you, Damsel…
We had the letter read out this morning.
Hoping it all went as well as expected this morning. I prayed for you during Holy Mass.
Look at this jaw dropping article below. Apparently, something called the “American Jewish Committee” and a Milan-based Imam have taken it upon themselves to tell the Catholic Church its business, regarding both the SSPX and official Church teaching.
What arrogance, as if any Catholic Prelate would presume to do the reverse.
Perhaps this puts the current hierarchy on the spot, in terms of what they response will be. Are they guiding the spotless bride of Christ, or are they running an organisation which has kow-towing to outmoded / false religions as its main purpose?
Do muslims and jews decide the terms for the recognition of the SSPX?
Well, for goodness sake, Gabriel Syme, where you at?
We can’t have those “anti-Semitic” and “Islamaphobic” SSPX types being regularised in the Church – least, not before Martin Luther’s canonisation, next year. Where you at?
The Jewish spokesman is completely disingenuous. He knows full well that the SSPX is not antisemitic. What worries him is that the Traditional doctrinal influence that the SSPX may have on the Church will ultimately expose the heresy of ecumenism and inter-religion, which in turn will lead to a new reiteration of the Catholic religion as the only true one, apart from which there is no salvation. That’s what’s on the Muslim’s mind as well. These guys are seriously rattled by the divine truth the SSPX upholds against the falsehood of Nostra Aetate.
Well said, Athanasius.
Couldn’t havedidn’t put it better myself!
True, Editor, true. Where you at, wummin!
Editor and Athanasius
One asks oneself what kind of unfortunate example one is showing to our American colonies by the incorrect use of such language; surely one knows that the correct form is “Where you at, bro.”?
Very funny, our Therese! Although, don’t you mean “one’s” American colonies? 😀
I’ve had an email from Christina who is not only having ongoing health problems but computer problems as well. She’d have liked to post the following link but internet doing what internet does best – crashing!
I’m surviving, but still got problems…
If you’ve not already seen this, scroll down to ‘Razing churches and building mosques’ and the article following.
Christina, thank you for that link which is riveting.
I do hope and pray that your health improves.
Editor and Therese,
I believe this might be the correct usage you’re looking for:
(from a colonized American)
BTW, in honor of our brave soldiers at the battle of Bunker Hill in 1775, I recall their battle cry as the redcoats approached:
“Don’t fire until you see the whites!”
To which one stalwart Minuteman replied,
“Where dey at??”
I’m having problems with sound at the moment, so can’t hear anything on your video but will do so asap.
I do hope you’ll feel better soon. Thanks for the link; I found myself close to tears when I saw that beautiful photograph of the humble pilgrim on his knees and receiving a blessing from one of my former bishops. I pray I can be a little more like him (the pilgrim – not the Bishop!).
Although, don’t you mean “one’s” American colonies?
One is mortified. Utterly mortified. 😀
And so, Therese, one should be! Utterly!
Editor, I have just wrote a post which I was hoping your readers might give me their thoughts on, particularly those under attack in places like the UK and Ireland who are involved in Education: Teachers, Parents. I hope this is ok. What do you do when asked to teach against God’s Commandments?
I take it that is your new blog – looks very good – I tried to post the following comment but not sure it will get through – I’m not on Facebook or any of the other options. Here’s what I submitted:
When I was asked to teach sex-education in a non-denominational school, I pointed out that I would only be able, in conscience, to do so, if I were permitted to give the whole message. I could not pass on, as true, the government’s safe-sex message without pointing out the scientific evidence that demonstrates that this is NOT “safe” – that there is really no such thing as “safe sex” outside of a true marriage. Anything less, where the chance of having more than one “partner” is a reality, means health risks. However, I added, I never like to refuse to do anything, so with that understood, I’m perfectly willing to take a sex-ed class. The senior management person who asked me, said “of course…” and “thanks” and “will get back to you”.
Thankfully, he never did!
Dear Editor. Yes, early days baby steps. But just remember when your on my blog….I’m the Editor 🙂
PS Thanks for your comments.
Our Lord is very pleased with your offering. My prayers for your needs will go on for as long as necessary – please renew that great confidence which you have in Our Lord, good buddy, because He will send you a Simon of Cyrene to help you carry this very heavy cross.
Thank you for the link you have provided, and like crofterlady I also find it riveting.
Will keep you in my prayers.
John Salza and Robert Siscoe have responded on trueorfalsepope.com to some recent words and actions of Fr. Paul Kramer against them and their excellent book, True or False Pope. It’s truly unfortunate to see these actions over the last few years by a priest who has done much good for the Church, but let us pray for him.
I have been inexpressibly moved by the kindness, good wishes and prayers of so many good blogging friends – what an army to have on one’s side! I thank God, and Our Blessed Lady that so far all those prayers have been answered well beyond my hopes, each day seeing another fear banished, and now there’s only a small hurdle left to go. I am a truly terrible coward with a sub-zero pain threshold (that’s my excuse anyway), so I fear I failed miserably to ‘offer it up’, and probably added much to the trials of overworked staff. I have since been reading, with shame, about the heroic sufferings of little Jacinta and Francisco, so at least, and again thanks to so many prayers, the experience of illness will encourage me to much greater spiritual efforts in future. THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart, and I will pray for you all.G od bless.
If copying to clipboard and pasting works, this is Mozart’s beautiful setting of my favourite recent prayer:
We fly to thy patronage, O holy Mother of God; despise not our petitions in our necessities, but ever deliver us from all dangers, O glorious and blessed Virgin.
Thanks for this truly heart warming post. That you are recovering well is indeed great news. Hopefully, you will be home soon, fit and well and handling the problems of life with aplomb.
Thanks be to God
In truth Christina, your Humility is self evident.and a great example
So pleased that recovery seems to be on the way Christina. And thank you for posting that glorious Mozart, a hymn I had never heard before and it is such a lovely prayer. One feels so vulnerable in hospital and I am glad that you felt so supported by everyone’s prayers. I will continue to keep you in mine. Courage mon amie!
So glad you are feeling better Christina. We’ve missed your erudite postings, so take your recovery slowly and don’t try to run before you are comfortable walking!
Past experience is a great tutor and Cardinal Hulme in a written answer to a question I asked him about why he did not follow church teaching and speak out on abortifacients etc. said “The only comment I have to make is that I do wish you would learn to spell my name correctly”.
Contrast that with Cardinal Burke whose Mother was told to abort him but refused. He recently stated that the ferocious attack against life today results from the distortion of the Sexual act by contraception. He add that the Devil wants to discourage us by subtly tempt us to remain silent to mute our conscience to tell ourselves we are personally against abortion but do not have to express our faith and moral conviction in public.
Mr Burtonshaw in the Catholic press recently stated that there have been 1.5 billion abortions worldwide since 1980. He goes on to say that Pharmacists for life in the USA state that since 1973 there have been 308 million killed through abortifacients, five times more than those killed by surgical abortions. The French Priests recent martyrdom in Mass is a very prophetic event in more ways than one. Each time a Catholic couple using abortifacients go to mass they are also in the process of killing their child whilst priests and the hierarchy remain silent on these issues. Our horror and outrage should be more than that manifested over this priests martyrdom because of the total innocence of those murdered in this way and also the vast numbers killed. Last Sundays Gospel says it all ‘there will be very many strokes of the lash’ for our individual and corporate silence concerning this long standing and on-going holocaust of the unborn in our time. The Eucharist, confession, and prayer are our only hope however in Hallam diocese following a contrived shortage of priests because we refuse to bring in priests from abroad there will be no Sunday Mass at Forty Martyrs Church for two of the next few weeks. Furthermore Eucharistic services have been stopped by the Bishop. In the early church people were allowed to take the Eucharist home with them so they could communicate on days when there was no Mass and thus families were served by the Church. In our time community has become the most misused and contrived concept in the church. Because of the continually falling birth rate the church has created a forced fed contrived and surreal community or family to replace the real families they have failed to create, nurture and support. This will manifest itself most clearly in the communities involved in priest-less liturgies in Hallam.
Ten years ago the Vatican stated that people using the contraceptive pill and other abortifacients excommunicated themselves. At that time the Vatican also stated that those allowing counselling or recommending the use of the pill etc. Including priests, doctors, health workers, spouses etc. were also excommunicated. The denial of these truths concerning abortifacients and contraception by silence and or omission by the hierarchy and priests mean that they are resisting the known truth. Resisting the known truth according to the Gospel cannot be forgiven in this world or the world to come. Unless they repent and change their ways concerning these issues therefore these clergy are saying a valid mass but making sacrilegious individual communions. Our Lady of Garabandal said that ‘ less and less importance is being given to the Eucharist’ and ‘many cardinals, many Bishops and many priests are on the road to perdition and are taking many souls with them.
Cardinal Sarah recently stated ‘separating magisterial teaching from pastoral practise is heresy and a dangerous schizophrenic pathology. He goes on to say that gender ideology has become the prime conductor for cooperation and development and ‘that the chief enemies of the homosexual person are the LGBT lobbies. He further stated ‘Euthanasia is the most acute indication of a godless sub-human society that has lost hope’. He finally stated ‘if men who are consecrated to God are no longer capable of understanding the radical nature of the Gospel message and seek to anesthetise it we will be going the wrong way for that is the real failure of mercy.
We need intense prayer and sacramental life to change things
I agree with everything you say about contraception and the whole pro-life message, but I don’t know why you seem to be supportive of eucharistic services – that shocks me. In Mediator Dei, the Pope tells us that it is a grave error to hark back to early liturgical practices, and I presume that is partly because doing so means ignoring the growing understanding, through the Holy Spirit, of the reality of Christ’s Presence in the Sacred Species. I copied this bit from MD:
the temerity and daring of those who introduce novel liturgical practices, or call for the revival of obsolete rites out of harmony with prevailing laws and rubrics, deserve severe reproof. It has pained Us grievously to note, Venerable Brethren, that such innovations are actually being introduced, not merely in minor details but in matters of major importance as well. We instance, in point of fact, those who make use of the vernacular in the celebration of the august eucharistic sacrifice; those who transfer certain feast-days – which have been appointed and established after mature deliberation – to other dates; those, finally, who delete from the prayerbooks approved for public use the sacred texts of the Old Testament, deeming them little suited and inopportune for modern times.
60. The use of the Latin language, customary in a considerable portion of the Church, is a manifest and beautiful sign of unity, as well as an effective antidote for any corruption of doctrinal truth. In spite of this, the use of the mother tongue in connection with several of the rites may be of much advantage to the people. But the Apostolic See alone is empowered to grant this permission. It is forbidden, therefore, to take any action whatever of this nature without having requested and obtained such consent, since the sacred liturgy, as We have said, is entirely subject to the discretion and approval of the Holy See.
61. The same reasoning holds in the case of some persons who are bent on the restoration of all the ancient rites and ceremonies indiscriminately. The liturgy of the early ages is most certainly worthy of all veneration. But ancient usage must not be esteemed more suitable and proper, either in its own right or in its significance for later times and new situations, on the simple ground that it carries the savor and aroma of antiquity.
Instead of worrying about the shortage of priests, why not just go to a Traditional Mass? There is an LMS rep in Hallam Diocese, so I’ve copied some details from you from their website:
Every Third Sunday
Our Lady Of Mount Carmel and Saint Mary Magdalen
134 Armthorpe Rd
Contact the rep
To contact me please use the following:
hallamlms AT gmail DOT com – email@example.com
I don’t know if there are SSPX Masses in Hallam, as they don’t list by diocese, just by towns or cities and I don’t know where you live. If you are going to a eucharistic service that means you are OK with laity handling the Blessed Sacrament. That is a complete scandal. I’ve copied the video of Bishop Schneider talking about this scandal, because I’ve seen it so often on this blog and it never fails to impress me. How anyone can take Communion on the hand, and from a lay person after seeing this, just beats me. I don’t mean to be offensive, Liam, so please do not think that. I know the majority of Catholics now do this without giving it a second thought, even eucharistic services, but I don’t think the pro-life problems will be put right until the Church restores the true Mass and proper veneration of the Blessed Sacrement – i.e. no touching by laity.
A critical analysis of AL by 45 theologians (one of the signatories is Fr. Ray Blake!), addressed to Cardinal Sodano, is here: http://sspx.org/en/amoris-laetitia-critical-analysis
That’s an amazing number of academic theologians criticising the Pope. I hope it makes him sit up and take notice.
Michael Matt had this to write in the Remnant Newspaper in regards to the Regularization of the SSPX: To be or not to be.
Father Isaac Mary Relyea’s Facebook page has posted this analysis of the New American Bible, which the USCCB has apparently decreed is the only version which may be used in United States lectionaries. The author concludes that this Bible is poisonous to the Faith (surprise, surprise!):
I thought you all might find this inspiring.
Bishop Keenan of Paisley posted on Facebook that the decline in religious practice in Scotland seems to have levelled out. He asked what we could do to reverse the trend. I suggested that the Scottish Bishops consecrate Scotland to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. He replied, or liked, every comment apart from mine. I asked three times if he would consider it. No reply. Very telling.
He is having a Rosary procession through Paisley on Sunday. I’ve asked him if he would ensure only the Rosary given by Our Lady would be included, since the Mysteries of Light (oh how I’m tempted to use rhyming slang) are optional. I doubt he will reply.
Not surprising that Bishop Keenan did not like your comment. Bishops no matter where they are on the whole do not see the necessity of consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, never mind their own countries.
I doubt he liked the suggestion of sticking to the Joyful, Sorrowful and Glorious Mysteries of the Rosary.
No reply yet. As I’ve said below, I think he only replies to the sycophants!
Here’s a possible answer. Maybe he thinks YOU, “PETRUS” are actually ME, “GERONTIUS” because a year ago (approx) I asked Bishop Keenan to consecrate Paisley Diocese to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Replying with a very courteous letter, he told me that Some Bishops were discussing consecration. He suggested I write down my thoughts and reasons and request the Scottish Catholic Bishops Conference for the CONSECRATION OF SCOTLAND to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
I duly did so and received a polite reply following the SCBC meeting, informing me that such would be considered at the appropriate time. Disappointment ensued and was further reinforced by the cold shoulder treatment I received in a church I usually attend when health allows.
Perhaps this was due to the fact that my erudition usually falls short of the mark. So the cause of any negativity you received Petrus, was more than likely my fault. (I frequently open Gub before engaging Brain) In which case, please accept my apologies.
I don’t think for a minute it is your fault. I think it’s more likely that consecrating Scotland to the Immaculate Heart of Mary repulses Bishop Keenan because it’s just too Catholic.
I had to pause over the “decline in religious practice” – not Catholic religious practice. I wondered if his optimistic assessment included Muslims!! Who knows, maybe Jews, Protestants, Buddhists and Hindus (and atheists?) while he’s at it!
I made the same request of the Archbishop of Oklahoma City, where a “black mass” will be held on Monday – and no reply either. I have a feeling we are speaking a foreign language to these modern clergy. An unwanted foreign language, to boot.
I thought exactly the same thing!
Suggesting that Bishop Keenan consecrate Scotland is not in his to do list, that is most likely why he did not answer your question. Just think of the graces that will not be given to Scotland, because a Bishop does not see fit to do it.
It is a wonder that a Rosary procession through Paisley is being done on Sunday. I bet you never got an answer to Pope John Paul II optional decade would not be recited.
Not yet. I’m not holding my breath either. He’s very quick to answer those who tell him how wonderful he is! Whatever happened to that so-called humility?!?
We are told that there is no problem that cannot be solved by the recitation of the Rosary.
September 8th is rapidly bearing down upon us and is the Feast of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary. On September 3rd 2016 there will be an opportunity to renew our devotion to Our Lady by attending the Annual SSPX pilgrimage to Walsingham.
Sad to say, only about 40 faithful last year were able to undertake the penance that this pilgimage offers, but since the commencement on June 19th of the establishment of the Knights of the Militia Immaculata in the U.K., perhaps some of those 200 or so newly-enrolled Knights will consider undertaking the penance.
Here is a link to a poster giving more details:
Leprechaun, to what penance are you referring in regard to the Walsingham pilgrimage?
I am referring to the self-imposed penance (hardship) of driving much further across country than I normally drive these days, of dropping off Mrs. Leprechaun at the Slipper Chapel, bringing the car back to Walsingham Village, scurrying 1 1/4 miles on foot back to the Slipper Chapel, processing back again to the Abbey ruins in Walsingham along a roughly gravelled railway track, assisting at Mass in an open field (sometimes in the rain and often in strong winds), kneeling in grass to say the prayers of consecration at the site of the Holy House, driving back home and then preparing a meal.
I have seen some pilgrims add to the penance by walking barefoot.
I think this constitutes a penance if that is what you were curious about.
Ahah! Here we go again – drip, drip, drip. Ach, it’s just a wee drap O cyanide, take big breaths, an’ it’l go away.
Martin Luther was a ‘teacher of the faith’, say German bishops.
UTTER GARBAGE! – EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
In a new report Germany’s bishops say the 500th anniversary of the Reformation must involve repentance on both sides
Germany’s Catholic bishops have praised Martin Luther as a “Gospel witness and teacher of the faith” and called for closer ties with Protestants.
Bishop Feige said the “history and consequences” of the Reformation would be debated during its upcoming 500th anniversary, but added that there was consensus that previous mutual condemnations were invalid.
Invalid? Really? Check this out:
Extract from Exsurge Domine, Bull of Pope Leo X issued June 15, 1520
As far as Martin himself is concerned, O good God, what have we overlooked or not done? What fatherly charity have we omitted that we might call him back from such errors? For after we had cited him, wishing to deal more kindly with him, we urged him through various conferences with our legate and through our personal letters to abandon these errors. We have even offered him safe conduct and the money necessary for the journey urging him to come without fear or any misgivings, which perfect charity should cast out, and to talk not secretly but openly and face to face after the example of our Saviour and the Apostle Paul. If he had done this, we are certain he would have changed in heart, and he would have recognized his errors. He would not have found all these errors in the Roman Curia which he attacks so viciously, ascribing to it more than he should because of the empty rumours of wicked men. We would have shown him clearer than the light of day that the Roman pontiffs, our predecessors, whom he injuriously attacks beyond all decency, never erred in their canons or constitutions which he tries to assail. For, according to the prophet, neither is healing oil nor the doctor lacking in Galaad.
But he always refused to listen and, despising the previous citation and each and every one of the above overtures, disdained to come.
END OF EXTRACT
Luther responded by burning the bull.
On seeing this article I rang the Editor Mr Paul Jones 01823…365151..saying how concerned I felt that he had given such a huge free advert to abortionists ….he was quite abrasive and spoke a lot about pro choice …he did not agree that life started at conception ..I am wondering if after reading the article you would care contact him and have a pro life chat
I rang every Church in the Taunton area bringing this to their attention. I really do hope PRO LIFERS take htis very seriously indeed ..thank you
Silly me! I’ve often opined that Papa Francis is not in full possession of his marbles, but the ‘Denziger/Bergoglio’ reprint published in the CO I received this am (August-September) has put paid to the hope that this explanation accounted for his crazy utterances.
‘(The) process (of the of the Denziger/Bergoglio undertaking, after 12 months) has gradually led us to the discovery that many declarations, albeit apparently accidental and haphazard, follow a very systematic plan: Francis continually and repeatedly reiterates his ideological bas-fond, which, although obscure to the casual listener, is very real and clear to him.’
This is truly required reading in the present chaos, and I hope that all bloggers will be able to access this report of this first year’s work of this group of good and faithful priests. May God bless them and help them in this work.
CO gives this link to a download of the first 100 studies of the group in PDF format, but I can’t open it on my android.
This article appeared this week very unbalanced and a huge free advert for abortionists I rang the Editor Mr Paul Jones on 01823…365151..and had a long talk about life and death he kept rattling off pro choice ….and he does not beleive life starts at conception he had no qualms about free advertisement for this heinous organisation
may I ask you good Souls to perhaps call .e -mail this man with pro life views and please leave a comment under the article one stalwart has doen this
I rang every Church in Taunton and spoke to people or left answerphone messages with the same request
Please treat as urgent
I think Iv’e got this one right – it’s dated 2016/08 – don’t think it’s been posted previously.
As we know this is the 1st day of the new SSPX Rosary Crusade.
I wanted to ask some questions regarding making sacrifices / acts of penance.
My understanding of these things should likely be better. In my defence I will point to the fact that I grew up in the novus ordo Church, where the main focus is on how brilliant the protestants are.
I would appreciate any comment / correction on my understanding below:
1) As we are obliged to pray the rosary daily already, can this daily rosary be included in the Crusade totals? Or should we only include rosaries over and above this “standard” daily effort?
2) As we are obliged to (for example) avoid meat on Fridays and do “something” for lent as standard, these things should not be included as sacrifices for the Crusade (Or should they?).
3) I understand sacrifices as acts of self-denial. But at what point does an act of self-denial become simple habit and so loses any associated merit? To give a very low level example: If I decided to forgo my highly prized daily bag of crisps as part of my lunch, that would be a sacrifice (as I really enjoy my crisps). However, if I did that for months on end, can that still truly be called a sacrifice – has it not become “normal” by that point, in so far as it’s not as much of a wrench as it is at first?
4) Are there any particularly good / meritorious / worthwhile examples of sacrifices to make? I read that attending a midweek mass could count, (as it is not an obligation – unless a Holy Day), but I was not sure about that.
5) I know about “offering things up” to God. For example, if we had a hard day at work, or if we are ill, rather than give in to anger or despair or frustration, we can offer these difficulties to God instead. However, these things are not sacrifices/penance but rather just showing a willingness to carry our crosses In life, which is also pleasing to God. Is this correct?
6) Other than making sacrifices, what are other realistic examples of penance we could make? (I know that making our penance after a confession would not count here). Very occasionally, I attend novus ordo masses to make appeals for funds on behalf of a Catholic charity. The experience of the mass is typically dismal – could this count as a penance, or would it not count because the main aim is to appeal for funds, not to subject oneself to the novus ordo?
Thank you for any advice, sorry if any of the above are silly questions.
Let us pray for a very successful Crusade!
“As we are obliged to pray the rosary daily already”
Well, we are not “obliged”, but encouraged. The only obligation is to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days unless sick or other good reason.
We are encouraged to say the daily rosary because Our Lady asked for that at Fatima, and said that the Rosary has been given a new power in our times. “There is no problem, spiritual or temporal, that cannot be solved by praying the rosary”. Sr Lucia said (as told by Our Lady) so we are encouraged to say it but not obliged under pain of sin. as is the case with the Mass obligation.
Thank you for clarifying that laura. I knew it wasn’t binding on pain of sin, but had got into the habit of regarding it as obligatory (if we are taking Fatima seriously) – but you are right to correct me, as stating “obligatory” is giving the wrong idea to people.
Sister Lucia of Fatima wrote the following to the Bishop of Leiria in 1943:-
“The Good Lord complains bitterly and sorrowfully about the small number of souls in His grace who are willing to renounce whatever the observance of His Law requires of them. This is penance, which the Lord now asks: the sacrifice that every person has to impose upon himself to lead a life of justice in the observance of His Law. For many, thinking that the word penance means great austerities and not feeling in themselves the strength or the generosity for these, lose heart and rest in a life of lukewarmness and sin. Our Lord said to me: “The sacrifice required of every person is the fulfilment of his duties in life and the observance of My Law. This is the penance that I now seek and require.”
In the culture in which we live today, almost heroic virtue is required to be faithful to the duties of the Christian life. Yet, over and above those sacrifices “required of every person,” the children of Fatima practiced many little acts of mortification and renunciation on their own initiative. It is hoped that many devotees of Our Lady will not be content with the minimum required and will not pass up opportunities of voluntary mortification, placing in the hands of Our Lady the fruits of the little trials, frustrations and irritations of each day accepted with patience and resignation.
It was in this same spirit that the Angel spoke to the children in 1916: “Offer up everything in your power as a sacrifice to the Lord in reparation for the sins by which He is offended, and in supplication for the conversion of sinners . . . More than all else, accept and bear with resignation the sufferings that God may send you.”
I would just take each day as it comes. Each day will bring its own opportunities for penance – both voluntary and involuntary!
Hope that is of help.
Thank you for that, it is very helpful. I’d forgotten that Our Lady of Fatima had said that. I do agree with you about not being satisfied with the minimum and we shouldn’t pass up chances to make little sacrifices.
However, I don’t really like the idea of recording penances, adding them up and putting them on a list. I know Spiritual Bouquets are traditional and I don’t mind counting the number of rosaries for the crusade but I don’t think I’ve ever heard of counting penances. It seems contradictory to me, to say penance should be offered up silently and then broadcast the amount! LOL!
Maybe I’ve misunderstood, so please put me right if I have got it wrong.
Thank you for that WF, much appreciated and very helpful to reflect on.
Counting penances . . . no, I’ve never thought of penance in that way. Fraught with danger I’d have thought. Might lead to spiritual pride – the sort I’ve seen in certain types when I’ve challenged them over their belief in Medjugorje:- ‘But I fast three days a week, I do this, I do that . . .’ Horrible.
A good classic pre-Vatican II book on penance is ‘Approach to Penance’ by Dom Hubert van Zeller. Second hand copies are on Amazon:- https://www.amazon.co.uk/APPROACH-PENANCE-Hubert-van-Zeller/dp/B000AMPNW8 but I think it has been reissued under a new name:- ‘Spirit of Penance, Path to God: How Acts of Penance Will Make Your Life Holier and Your Days Happier’ https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spirit-Penance-Path-God-Happier/dp/0918477875/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1471264087&sr=1-2&keywords=Spirit+of+Penance%2C+Path+to+God%3A+How+Acts+of+Penance+Will+Make+Your+Life+Holier+and+Your+Days+Happier although I don’t know if the reissue has been changed from the original in any way.
Yes, I agree with that and share Laura’s dislike of recording penances (partly because I’m very definitely to be found wanting in that department. Note the absence of any exclamation mark…)
I didn’t actually know that there was to be a recording of penances as well as rosaries, but I can on presume (hope, against hope!) that it is all anonymous, that no names are to be given, just numbers. As long as there’s nobody behind us in the queue when we add our numbers, we’re safe, Laura and WF!
It might be that everyone has their own sheet of paper and must just fold it and hand it in anonymously, whatever, but I certainly don’t think we would be encouraged – or expected – to be letting the world know what we are doing in the way of penance, when we’re really not supposed even to let our right hand know what our left hand is doing in the matter of alms giving/personal sacrifice.
I didn’t actually know that there was to be a recording of penances as well as rosaries, but I can on presume (hope, against hope!) that it is all anonymous, that no names are to be given, just numbers
I have a print off of the instructions and record sheet from the UK SSPX website.
Rosaries and Sacrifices are to be recorded. Not details, just the number and date. I noticed the sheet does ask for your name.
The instruction sheet makes clear that existing rosaries which people already say may be included in the number.
There is a link for entering data online, or the form can be sent to St Georges House or, I think, handed in at local SSPX chapels.
Either this is a hoax or someone’s been dabbling in occultism and might have released something evil . . . http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/poltergeist-baffles-hardened-police-scotland-8620581
We have been discussing that story from the Daily Record on the Yoga thread, which I re-opened for the purpose. Click here and scroll down to near the end of the page where I posted the link to the Daily Record report, on 13 August, at 12.09 pm to read and then, get with the programme
It’s no hoax – the cops witnessed stuff flying around and then sent for senior officers who then witnessed the same thing. Seems to have been the police, not the (devout Catholic!) family who suggested contacting the Church. Priceless. However, let’s keep that discussion on the Yoga thread, please and thank you…
Forgiven and absolved!
N O T I C E . . .
A comment which I tried to post a few minutes ago, disappeared into thin air, with a message from WordPress saying it could not be posted. There is no reason that I can think of, which this should have happened. The comment was to my usual high standards, which, in my humility I would normally leave unsaid 😉 but to underline the fact that this happened for no apparent reason, I am offering up my humility, just this once, all in the interests of the greater good, you understand. . Happily, my lost comment was short and sweet, so took no time at all to re-write and, in fact, I added a bit to it… AND THEN SAVED IT! Just in case it went AWOL again.
I’m actually in the habit of always copying my comments, a lesson learned from past experience when, occasionally, a comment disappears and a message is given that the comment could not be posted – no explanation. It’s not lurking in any of the usual places where problem posts sometimes file themselves.
So, I thought I would remind everyone to try to get into the habit of always copying comments before pressing the “Post Comment” button. Just to be on the safe side.
Ever and always, at your service!
Your last line should have read “Ever and always, humbly at your service”. You’re slipping!
I stand duly corrected!
The Herald reports that Bishop Nolan (Diocese of Galloway) has suffered a heart attack and is being treated in hospital. Let us pray he makes a good recovery.
This is on the back of Archbishop Tartaglia (Glasgow) having suffered his second heart attack in recent times.
I would suggest that +Nolan and ++Tartaglia are given auxiliary Bishops (with succession rights) to run their dioceses, while they can remain for a period as figureheads. The auxiliaries can then succeed them in due course.
The Episcopate needs energetic men in good health, especially in areas (like Scotland) where the mainstream Church is a very moribund and aimless institution.
I’m surprised at your comment. No matter WHO is appointed – whether auxiliaries (a strange innovation, which I understood was to be ended some time ago) or not, they may well be “energetic” but they will not be any different in philosophy from the current crop. That is, they will be about as Catholic as the nearest imam. Otherwise, they just would not be appointed.
Whatever, we ought to pray for Bishop Nolan (and Tartaglia) that they take their poor health as a warning sign and try to do something to make up for their part in the ongoing episcopal neglect of the Church in Scotland over a period of many years now.
What was surprising about my comment?
I agree that the Bishops and their likely successors are hardly models of tradition, but the point I was making was really about their poor health.
An improvement in the quality of Bishops must (please God) arrive at some point, but if they are not fit and healthy, then the effect of this will be muted.
Any Bishop, regardless of quality, will be less effective if his fragile health imposes a sedate lifestyle and/or an aversion to confrontation (with politicians / secularists / whoever).
Look at ++Tartaglia, he is the president of the Bishops Conference and yet he is like the invisible man. At times it feels like we hear more from Lord Lucan, than we do the good Archbishop. Misguided modernistic failings aside, I am sure his very ropey health must have something to do with how visible / audible he is.
As for auxiliary bishops – you may be right, but I had not heard the practice was to end, I thought it was still current (?). +Schneider is an auxiliary Bishop. If the practice is to end, then Bishops in poor health should simply be replaced on health grounds, rather than saddle a Diocese with a leader whose health will impinge on his ability to fulfill the role.
Wish we had +Schneider here with us!
I found your comment surprising because you seemed to assume exactly what you are now confirming, that poor health explains the bishops’ dereliction of duty.
I disagree entirely. I think their lack of Catholic Faith explains their failure to teach the Faith and to guard morals; if they were convinced of the truths of the Faith, there would not be such a dislike of “confrontation” (i.e. evangelisation) – on the contrary, it is this conviction which drives us on, to paraphrase somewhat, the great St Paul…
Great saints were often in poor health but that did not make them faithless – quite the reverse.
Anyway, whatever way we look at this, your charity shines forth where mine does not. Sorry! I just see the years and years of neglect and public support of dissenters, certainly in the case of Archbishop Tartaglia, long before he was diagnosed with health problems. I know I’m a hard wummin… I really must get in touch with my feminine side, one of these days 😀
If we need an inspiring example of someone not in robust health and yet still unswervingly devoted to duty, surely we need look no further than the present pontiff. The man only has one lung but he certainly doesn’t let that stop him from fulfilling his role as a full-time demolition expert. To paraphrase Calgacus (Scottish chieftain from 1st century A.D. who was probably a cross between William Wallace and Tommy Sheridan) before the battle of Mons Graupius, ‘he creates a desert and calls it peace’.
Ah, now I get you.
Sorry if I have given the wrong impression – I know very well that the problems with leadership (and wider Church) in Scotland are much deeper than a few Bishops having dodgy tickers!
I was just meaning that if someone is of fragile health, that simply compounds our current situation – but you make a good point about Saints who suffered poor health, but who “got stuck in” regardless.
Sorry for the misunderstanding!
You’re a card, Spudeater! (And spot on.)
Whatever happened to your avatar, or are you coming out in sympathy with Spudeater who can’t work out how to attach one? IS there an “Avatar Trade Union”?
I don’t know where my avator has gone. It still shows up on the screen in the right hand corner, but doesn’t appear in the posts. Funny.
I’ve just read the sad news that John Vennari has cancer, and although he has been offered chemo, he’s not going to take it. He is asking for prayers. God bless him and his family.
Avatars are attached to the email address you used when you created it. So, if you don’t use the same email, it won’t show.
That is very sad about John Vennari – thank you for letting us know. I’m sure we will all remember him in our prayers – he has a lovely wife and beautiful children. I feel very sad for them all.
My avatar has disappeared along with 2 posts this morning. Let’s see if this one gets through!
I’m not a sports fan at all, not one little bit, so the Olympics blitz is driving me nuts every time I tune in to find out if WWIII has been declared yet.
However, I stumbled across this gem from Mundabor and it is very encouraging to see a top athlete unashamedly sporting his Miraculous Medal. Just thought I’d post it in case there are any others, like me, who don’t actually follow the Olympics and so may have missed this (assuming it was reported on the news in the first place which I somehow doubt…)
I saw that article too Editor – isn’t it wonderful, I had no idea Usain Bolt was a Catholic!
Public examples of faith like that must drive the likes of the BBC batty!
The Damsel has provided for us an update on her situation and also of the SSPX chapel and parishioners in the affected areas of Louisiana. I’m so grateful for the abundant blessings God has given my dear friend! I’m also very thankful for His care of the SSPX chapel in Baton Rouge and the infinite examples of His Love He shows to all of us every day. We thank everyone at Catholic Truth very much for their kind thoughts and prayers!
Thank you for keeping us informed. I’ve just posted a comment in response to Damsel’s latest news.
Can I ask everyone to pray for the repose of the soul of Mr Peter Barry who died today. The fact that the SSPX exists in Scotland is due to him as he and his late wife Nancy, were the main driving force in bringing them here, and it was they who provided most of the funds to buy the chapels in Edinburgh and Glasgow. Peter was last at Mass on Monday for the Feast of the Assumption and was coming to the rosary last night but unfortunately he fell and broke his hip. Doctors were going to do a hip replacement later in the week but he passed away peacefully in the afternoon. He will be greatly missed by all at the Edinburgh chapel, especially the children, including his seven great grandchildren, who would always be given a sweetie after Mass.
I’ve had a couple of emails with this news today, so thank you for posting it here.
May he rest in peace.
Good call Vianney. These pioneers, not just In Scotland but in other countries, hammered in the first foothold that have allowed traditional parishes to flourish, keeping the Faith alive amid the decadence and capitulation of the liberal Church.
If all readers could spend a moment just to say the De Profundis for these souls, how great a service we can do for them in return!
John Vennari (Catholic Family News) has just announced some terrible news about his health on the CFN website: http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/4e842a392223b5758ceb116f3879d205-624.html
I’d hate to this we are going to lost another stalwart and knowledgeable voice of Tradition. Please pray for him~
Thanks – although Therese posted this somewhere earlier today. I emailed JV to assure him of our prayers.
I found this truly incredible. Fr. Paul Kramer is saying on his Facebook page that God KILLED Fr. Nicholas Gruner as a punishment for recognizing Francis as the Pope. And we thought what Fr. Paul Nicholson said was bad…
Thank you for alerting us to that shocking report. I am truly saddened by what is going on with Fr Kramer.
Salsa and Siscoe have noted Fr. Kramer’s departure from Catholic sanity in their new book. I doubt they would have predicted this much of a departure though….
Fr Kramer is now a huge disappointment. I can’t believe the things he’s saying, especially about Fr Gruner. I agree, nobody could have predicted this. He really is in a bad way.
If I remember correctly, Fr. Kramer was helping out at The Fatima Center for a short while immediately after Fr. Gruner’s death. I hope he has had nothing to do with that noble apostolate since then.
To blight the name of Fr. Gruner is scandalous. For what I know of him, Fr Gruner devoted in a saintly manner, his whole life to Our Lady, the mediatrix of all Grace. O how beautiful his reward must be in Heaven.
Speaking of Salsa and Siscoe’s new book (True or False Pope?), this wonderful book has just answered a question I’ve had for a long time, namely, “What exactly are the gates of hell”? According to them, quoting several Popes and Doctors on the subject, the “gates of hell” are the disputations and false teachings of heretics.
I’m going to have to buy that book. I have read the endorsements of Bishop Fellay, Mr. Ferrara, Mr. Vennari and Fr.Paul Robinson (I mention those having read their own material) who are highly competent individuals.
Drat! O had a look on the book’s promotion website hoping they had a digital copy for sale, but it seems not.
[b]Apostolicity in the dissident Oriental Churches[/b]
The dissident Oriental Churches lack true Apostolicity since it must be both material and formal, and they lack the latter; the material consists of the actual succession in the Church, through a series of persons from the Apostolic age to the present; the formal adding the element of authority in the transmission of power (i.e. jurisdiction).
There are many Church authorities that state this, but I’ll just leave it to St. Thomas Aquinas “… the power of jurisdiction is that which is conferred by a mere human appointment. Such a power as this does not adhere to the recipient immovably: so that it does not remain in heretics and schismatics; and consequently they neither absolve nor excommunicate, nor grant indulgence, nor do anything of the kind, and if they do, it is invalid.” (Secunda Secundae Partis, Q. 39). Hence, it is clear-cut, the dissident Churches lack formal Apostolicity; they have it only materially.
Now, while there is this ‘official’ and ‘absolute’ view of the Catholic Church on the Apostolicity of these dissident Churches, there is, from what I’ve read, another – a ‘real world’ view – on how the Catholic Church treats these dissident Churches.
If these dissident Churches lack all jurisdiction whatsoever then it follows that a number of their sacraments would be invalid since, for validity, the minister must be approved by the jurisdictional power: confession, confirmation (where the minister is a simple priest), and extreme unction (where the holy oils are blessed by a simple priest). And yet the Catholic Church supposedly recognizes the validity of all seven sacraments of these dissident Churches; it is not, for example, the practice of the Catholic Church to require a general confession from these schismatics when they are reconciled (as is required for other non-Catholics), nor are they required to be re-confirmed if they were confirmed by a simple priest.
Journet states that “[i]in fact[/i] and [i]in virtue of a borrowed title[/i], the dissident Churches which retain the power of order (the dissident Oriental Churches, for instance), may retain, by a concession of the Sovereign Pontiff, either express or tacit, a partial but genuine jurisdiction which enables them validly to administer to their subjects even those sacraments which require a jurisdictional power in the minister; such as Confirmation and Penance.” (Church of the Word Incarnate, Jounet, 1955. p.506).
[i]L’Ami du Clergè[/i] which has dealt with the question of jurisdiction within the dissident Churches several times (1896, 1899, 1914, 1927) concur: “La juridiction, supposè qu’elle y existe, comme nous le pensons, est donc transmise aux simples prêtres par les Evêques et Patriarches qui règissent cette Eglise aujourd’hui comme autrefois, eux-mêmes conservant leur juridiction parce l’Eglise romaine, pour le bien de tant d’âmes entraînèes et vivant de bonne foi posè le schisme, n’a pas voulu les priver, n’a posè de fait aucun acte qui indique son intention de les en dèpouiller et en a posè, au contraire, plusieurs (ceux entre autres indiquès ci-dessus) qui insinuent sa volontè de la leur conserver.” (L’Ami du Clergè, 1914-1919, vol. XXXVI, p.318)
The [i]Clergy Review/[i] states “These schismatical priests accordingly draw their jurisdiction from the Church, through their bishops and patriarchs, exactly as they did before the schism. The Church has not wished to deprive them of jurisdiction for the greater good of souls, and one can discover no act on the part of the authority of the Church which can be interpreted as a deprivation of those powers.” (published in Questions and Answers: The Sacraments, Mahoney, 1944. Q.198).
Renowned canon lawyer Fr. Philip Maroto, largely responsible for the 1917 Code of Canon Law, held that the schismatic Orientals retained a true jurisdiction: “Schismatici orientales, qui pariter ut scirnus non ex uno capite haeretici sunt, et quidem notorii, retinent veram iurisdictionem ita ut valide sacerdotes a competentibus superioribus approbati, absolvant, valide parochi et Ordinarii adsistant matrimoniis et ita porro.” (Institutiones juris canonici, 1921).
Other references include: [i]Irénikon[/i] (1928, p.142); [i]Memento de Thèologie Morale[/i] (Souarn, p. 134); [i]Nederlandsche Katholieke Stemmen[/i] (1927, p.354); [i]Jus Pontificium[/i] (1929, p.232); [i]A Catholic Dictionary[/i] (Attwater D., 1958. See ‘Jurisdiction of Schismatic Clergy’).
One crucial piece of evidence cited is a point elucidated in a rescript from the [i]Holy Office[/i] (5 July, 1853 / 3 July 1859): “quod confirmati a sacerdotibus schismaticis denuo liniantur post reditum ad unitatem, et ad mentem: Mens est, quod in casibus particularibus inquirendum sit, quonam in loco conversi ad fidem fuerint confirmati; etenim in Bulgaria et in Cypro insula aut in Italia et insulis adjacentibus aut penes Maronitas Libanenses, aut ubicunque fuit haec facultas expresse adempta, denuo confirmari debent absolute. Si vero confirmati fuerint in Valachia, Moldavia, Asia etc., et ubicunque facultas non fuit expresse revocata, valide confirmati fuerunt.” (Collectio Conciliorum Lacensis, 1882). Thus, the Church considers schismatical confirmation by a simple priest to be valid in those places where his powers have not been withdrawn. The argument is that if the Church has not withdrawn from schismatical priests the power to confirm, it follows that their power to grant absolution has not been withdrawn either; for the latter is more necessary for souls than the former.
The consensus, then, for over 50 years prior to Vatican II, was that, in practice the dissident Churches did retain a degree of jurisdiction. How they came to retain it isn’t certain but some claim it is because it was never specifically withdrawn after the Great Schism (for the greater good of souls), others suggest it’s because the reunion with the Orthodox and other churches effected by the [i]Council of Florence[/i] has never been officially repudiated by the Holy See.
Journet concludes his section titled ‘The Presence of a Partial and Borrowed Jurisdiction’, thus:
“3. We come now to a delicate question. If Rome continues to grant to dissident Oriental priests the power of conferring the sacraments of Confirmation and Penance, that shows that the use of this power is not only valid but licit.—These priests have a duty of charity to use it, since, according to the Code of Canon Law, a duty of charity lies on all priests to hear the confessions of the faithful in peril of death; and the Code lays down precisely that every priest then acts not only validly but even licitly. Would it not equally be a duty of charity for dissident bishops to confer the power of order, and to multiply priests to whom the Roman Church herself will grant the power of confirming and absolving? In other words, must we say that in the dissident Churches the transmission of the power of order should be considered as valid, certainly, but illicit, illegitimate? Or is it permissible to think, on the contrary, that the Roman Church, desiring it for the good of souls, regards it as licit and legitimate? To this I answer that in the eyes of the Roman Church the transmission of the power of order in the dissident Churches is [i]licit conditionally[/i], that is to say on the hypothesis of their good faith and invincible ignorance, an hypothesis which indeed is probable and generally admitted. But we add that this transmission remains illicit in itself and speaking absolutely, so that it would become, not of course invalid, but illegitimate, as soon as it ceased to be effected in good faith.
4. However this may be, the dissident Oriental Churches can possess the spiritual jurisdiction needed for the valid administration of Confirmation and Penance. We will not say that they can possess it illicitly or illegitimately since they have it by a free delegation from the Sovereign Pontiff and so licitly and legitimately; rather let us say preferably, in a partial, precarious, borrowed and accidental manner. And hence the seven forms of sacramental grace are to be found in these Churches, and this unites them in profound fellowship with the one true Church, the sole Bride of Christ. However, they lack that full and divinely assisted jurisdiction which puts the final seal on the unity of the Mystical Body.” (p.508-509)”
A word on Cardinal Journet. He is largely credited with drafting the Vatican II document [i]Lumen Gentium[/i], which all good trads know, contains the infamous “subsits in”. Having said that, Archbishop Lefebvre said of him “Cardinal Journet was a deep thinker, Professor at the University of Fribourg in Switzerland, and a great theologian.” Archbishop Lefebvre, refused to sign two Vatican II documents (The Church in the Modern World & Religion Freedom) but he sign-off on [i]Lumen Gentium[/i]. Indeed, in the May 5th Protocol, he declared his acceptance of [i]Lumen Gentium[/i] #25. Further, I have found articles written by Ecclesia Dei communities (FSSP), the FSSPX, Sedevacantists (Bp. Sanborn), and even those in the so called ‘Resistance’ (Dominicans of Avrille) who seem to have no problem referencing Journet’s work: Church of the Word Incarnate.
This brings me to the questions that I’m currently considering, which I hope some of you can help with:
i) Can it be now said that these dissident Oriental Churches do have, in reality, formal Apostolicity to some degree, even if it is only in a “partial, precarious, borrowed and accidental manner”?
ii) Can it be said that these dissident Oriental Churches can be considered ‘Particular Churches’ as described in [i]Dominus Iesus[/i]?
I am not a scholar so I can’t really give you any kind of definite answer to your two questions, but I have read your post as carefully as I can and I don’t think there is anything new in it. We always knew that schismatics, priests who have been laicised etc. can give the sacraments in extreme circumstances (such as imminent death). But I can’t see how any dissident church can be said to be formally “apostolic” if they do not explicitly recognise the Pope as head of the Church.
I seem to remember that Dominus Jesus was controversial, so I’ll pass on commenting on that second question right now.
This is probably no help at all but I have not researched the subject and am really just going by my limited knowledge and gut feeling. Sorry not to be more help. I’m sure others will be.
Cardinal Journet was quite simply wrong. His argument is typically Modernist, which is to say he takes a perfectly valid Church teaching, i.e., the power in charity for priests of dissident (schismatic) Oriental churches to absolve in cases of danger of death, assuming unbroken apostolic succession, and extends it to a general permission and legitimacy accorded by the Holy See which, if accepted, literally identifies these dissident churches with the Church of Rome.
The teaching of the Church up till Lumen Gentium is that while the schismatic churches administer the Sacraments validly, assuming again that the apostolic succession has been maintained, they never administer licitly since the jurisdiction to do so can only come from the Holy Father in Rome. So no, they do not administer the Sacraments with formal authority and never can so long as they remain spearated from Peter.
I’m not all together certain that you have it right about Cardinal Journet being the main influence behind Lumen Gentium. My research has uncovered that Henri de Lubac, the notorious Modernist censured by Pius XII, is generally held to have been the brains behind that document. It certainly contains ambiguous statements and propositions that need urgent clarification, as is amply demonstrated by the confusion over the legitimacy of Sacraments administered by schismatic priests. These matters were once very clear to Catholics. Lumen Gentium only succeeded in obscuring that clarity.
Carried to its logical conclusion, if what Cardinal Journet proposes were accepted then there is absolutely no need for the adherents of the schismatic Oriental churches to abandon their errors and return to Rome. In other words, the schism between these churches and Rome has all been a great misunderstanding on the part of the Holy See for many centuries up to the “New Pentecost” of Vatican II.
I can’t remember the name of the great saint/theoligian who said “where Peter is, there is the Church”. That’s the clarity the Church always proposed until Vatican II.
Rejoice such wonderful news Thank you OUR BLESSED LADY OF GUADALUPE and all the wonderful people who have prayed outside these evil mills in all weathers year in year out for Babys little Lives
This is good news, but only to a limited extent. We may be quite certain that the issues raised about this baby killing provider will be addressed and resolved very quickly and then business will resume as normal. In the meantime, I note from the article that women are being directed to “alternative providers”. This is not any kind of serious long term victory for life. Until these people realise the gravity of what they are doing and repent of it, the en masse killing of little babies will continue. God forgive all who participate in such a business as this.
Thank you for your very kind and thoughful reply …..I agree that ..WE …have not won BUT it shows the abortionists for what they are ….it absolutely blows the abortionist mantra safe and legal out of the water …….It is sad this latest news is just a crumb of comfort out of a loaf but it is a start …may I ask people to contact the CQC in droves Citygate ,Gallowgate ,Newcastle Upon Tyne ,NE1 4PA
03000…616171.with PRO LIFE views
Thank you all
Please sign and ask others to as well
Thank you Wendy – I’ve now signed.
Rorate Caeli just posted this good news, submitted by “a reader in Scotland” (one of our bloggers?), about the Diocese of Dunkeld: https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2016/08/you-report-traditional-double-first-in.html#more
Yes that was good news RCA Victor.
Bishop Robson of Dunkeld is likely the best of the Scottish Bishops, at least the most friendly to tradition anyway. He wishes to learn the traditional liturgy personally and has been favourable to the growth of tradition in his Diocese (the new diocesan priest in your link, whom I have met, will be a part of that).
Having said that, you could hand a Mitre and crook to a monkey and it would be in with a shout of being the best Bishop in Scotland. The current lot, taken as a whole, are perhaps more harmless than their predecessors, but that is scarcely worth rejoicing over.
But credit to Bishop Robson – his activity will make it harder for his brother Bishops to reject calls for the traditional mass / sacraments – and this can only be a good thing.
They can no longer portray the true expression of our faith as an eccentric / unwanted relic, given a contemporary local Bishop is openly sympathetic and involved, as we see.
I have a mind to write to Bishop Robson and ask for his thoughts on Archbishop Tartaglia referring to a liking of the traditional mass as being an “affectation”.
Though I should leave the honour to Petrus, as it was he who was on the end of the remark!
I forgot to say that the new Dunkeld Priest, Fr Doohan, offered a (traditional) first mass in Glasgow a few days ago, see here:
Your description of the Scottish bishops as being “more harmless than their predecessors” is in itself quite a damning statement!
The “affectation” sneer of +Tartaglia reminded me of a variation of that which was used by the mouthpieces of our former Archbishop of Cincinnati, +Pilarczyk, an enemy of Tradition, who would describe the longing for the ancient liturgy as a “nostalgia, equivalent to missing old favorite TV shows and pop tunes.”
The arrogance and condescension of these liberals beggars belief.
I don’t know what makes you think the author of the Rorate article is one of our bloggers. It seems to have been written by someone calling him/herself “New Catholic” and goodness knows, there’s plenty of them around these days – in fact, The New Catholic is one of the headlines on the front page of the September newsletter! I hope the author of the Rorate article doesn’t sue me for copyright – too late, it’s now at the printers! Anyway, I know you’d all club together to bail me out….
… You would, folks, wouldn’t you?!
I think the “New Catholic” of Rorati Caeli chose the name because he is a convert to the Faith. I can confirm that he is not a blogger here.
O yes I was.
Scottish Catholic composer Sir James MacMillan has an interesting article in the Spectator, criticising the relationship between the Church and the SNP:
We should all remember the people in Italy, affected by the earthquake (magnitude 6.2), in our prayers.
Apparently around 40 people are known to have been killed and many are trapped in rubble.
The Benedictine Monastery at Norcia has suffered damage to its Church building.
How about this to spoil your morning coffee…..!!!
and here’s some more…..
I’ve been praying the “Prayer to Defeat Revolutionary Men” that came with my Golden Arrow Prayer booklet, specifically for the destruction of the Hillary Clinton campaign and of the machinations of Obama and George Soros. Here is the prayer:
“Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, and all the instruments of His Holy Passion, that Thou mayest put division in the camp of Thy enemies, for as Thy Beloved Son hath said, ‘a kingdom divided against itself shall fall.'”
Many, many thanks for this good buddy.
Prayer has been copied and added to my daily office.
So do you consider Trump to be a better option?
Once again we Yanks are forced into choosing the lesser of two evils – which is Trump.The concerted efforts of the “Establishment Elites” against him and for Hillary are quite indicative of who their choice is – i.e. more of Obama:
If I had my druthers, I would vote for Ted Cruz, but he was eliminated by Trump.
Once again we Yanks are forced into choosing the lesser of two evils.
Or as Bob Hope once said the choice is between “the evil of two lessers” or perhaps three – you may be right about Obama!
Bob Hope is one of my all time favourite characters. Here’s one of his quips that is just made for election time…
I wrote to the editor of the “Herald” yesterday in very uncoplimentary terms concerning a headline in their online edition.
I also wrote to the Cabinet Secretary for Justice in the Scottish Government as follows;
“Dear Mr Matheson,
I note that the following has been published today on the home page of the Herald online edition;
“The Midge: Christ, there’s two of them! Trump and Farage join forces on US campaign trail”
It may be the case that blasphemy laws, arguably including the taking of the Lord’s Name in vain, have fallen into desuetude in Scotland.
However, this casual disrespect of the beliefs of the many Christians in this country is rude and unpleasant, and is very bad mannered. It ignores the standards that Christians set for themselves in this nominally Christian country.
I am aware that the headline may refer to the punchline of an old joke about Romans and Picts but I don’t consider it appropriate to the front page of a respectable national newspaper, or even a red top.
There is legal opinion that such publication may amount to breach of the peace, as it may result in some public disorder.
What would be the reaction if the Herald published a similarly disrespectful headline in respect of the beliefs of muslims? How would muslims react? Would a prosection of the Herald be considered ?
I would appreciate your thoughts on these points.”
I have received no reply from the Herald . I note that the headline has now been removed although the same wording is used unchanged in the body of the piece.
The Scottish Government will take some weeks to respond, if they ever do. Our local MP/MSPs are mere ciphers dancing to the tune of their parties.
All good fun, for the moment.
Well said – great that you wrote to express your concerns. Very well said indeed. And great that you managed to have the headline removed, even if the insult is still within the body of the text. Perhaps someone else will write in to ask for its removal as well.
I stopped reading the Herald after their last anti-Catholic piece, so I missed that. Truly shocking. As for your question to them, what would Muslims do if their religion were similarly insulted – I think we can all guess the answer to that one.
Thank you for standing up for Our Lord and protesting the headline; well done indeed.
Editor and Athanasius,
You may recall our recent discussion on the difficulties associated with the interpretation of the book of the Apocalypse.
My own opinion was and remains, that the relevant parts would be understood by the generation for whom it was meant.
On the 23rd September 2017, an astronomical alignment will occur which has NEVER happened before in human history, AND WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!
It pertains to Rev. 12 and the Signum Magnum, the Woman Clothed with the Sun (Our Lady of Fatima, also Our Holy Mother Church) There is much, much more I could write about this event, but I’ll leave it at that and refer you to two very interesting links below.
2017 may prove to be very interesting indeed!
Read this one first – (Catholic)
And this one second – much more detail, diagrams, Israel – (Christian, unsure if catholic, but still very relevant)
As the author himself points out right at the beginning of his article, he intends no particular interpretation of the event he describes. All he wishes to do is highlight the occurrence as potentially significant, as was the Star of Bethlehem, the great miracle of the sun, the night illuminated by a strange light, etc. It’s dangerous to start interpreting astronomical events with Sacred Scripture, especially when only those previously prompted would have any clue that said event(s) were due to take place. There was no mistaking the Star of Bethlehem, the miracle of the sun or the night illuminated by a strange light. Those not in the know, however, could miss the forthcoming phenomenon unless prompted to watch for it. There also appears to be some debate about dates and times, which is a little confusing.
This having been said, I do not doubt that God uses His creation to herald great events, and this one on the horizon could represent something of that nature. But again, the woman clothed with the sun with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars upon her head has always been interpreted by the Church supernaturally to refer both to the Church and Our Lady. In other words, the description is metaphorical.
As regards the description for Our Lady, the sun represents the Son of Justice, Christ Our Lord (grace), the moon represents the world and sin under her feet and the crown of twelves stars represents her Queenship over the twelve tribes of Israel, the Apostles and the nine choirs of angels plus three Archangels. In other words, Queen of all angels and saints.
Like you and many others, however, I do believe that 2017, the 100th anniversary of Fatima, will be significant for the Church and the world. What makes this even more credible is that a former NATO Deputy Commander, Sir Richard Shirreff (not a Catholic as far as I know), has just published a book predicting war between Russia and the West as early as next year. Written in the form of a novel, he has warned in recent TV interviews that much of the information in his book is factual. He predicts that Russia will invade the Baltic States because the West has seriously depleted its military resources and is ill prepared to keep Putin in check. Putin for his part is said to be a man who aims to re-establish the power of the former USSR. For Sir Richard this can only end badly for the world.
Maybe the Pope will be forced to make the consecration of Russia after all, and sooner than any of us think. But let us not lose sight of the fact that the real punishment of the Third Secret is not earthly cataclysms, it is the loss of souls on a grand scale. The punishment therefore is more supernatural than natural, which makes it far more terrible than a global conflagration. Still, we can only trust in God and be faithful to Our Lady. Can’t live our lives in fear that the world might end at any moment. The period of holy peace must come first, then Antichrist, then the end. Our Lady will intervene soon to crush the head of the devil, just when he thinks he has the victory. She has promised us this much.
I saw a TV interview and read a newspaper article about Shirreff and the scenario laid out in his book and one particular quote of his stood out for me: “If the West is not at war with Russia by May next year, I’ll be quite happy to be told by everyone that I was wrong.” I thought it was intriguing that he chose May which would of course be the month of the 100th anniversary of Our Lady’s first appearance at Fatima. Then again, he may have chosen May because his book will have been published for about a year by then so sales will have reached a plateau and won’t be too adversely affected by his effort proving to be a work of pure fiction if all’s quiet on the Eastern front. I would imagine also that any reputational damage caused by getting it wrong might be at least partially assuaged by his literary royalties!
Sorry for the delay in response to your post.
Yes, it is very interesting that Shirreff mentions May as the month of expectation. I watched his interviews on TV and I really don’t think this man is after money or fame. I really believe he is frustrated by the West’s military cuts and slackness over the past decade or so, together with its too-easy dismissal of Russia as a minor threat.
Russia is very well armed and extremely dangerous, with nuclear stockpiles that could wipe the world out several times over. The worst thing is they seem to be goading Putin into aggression. But as the old adage goes: “be careful what you wish for!”
Editor and all,
My SSPX parish and my family are in the US District news. Please see my post and pray for us all, that we continue to have a speedy and successful recovery. And please pray for the many thousands of South Louisiana who have lost everything.
I will remember you, the SSPX parish and the people of Louisiana in my prayers Damsel.
Here’s to a full and speedy recovery for you and all those affected – especially your Church community.
Thank you, Gabriel! God bless and keep you.
I’ve just left a short comment on your blog, in admiration of your forbearance which, I have admitted, is an example to a serial complainer like my unworthy self!
Hopefully, you will be restored to good order very soon.
God bless you.
Thank you, Editor. We still have our families and fellow traditional Catholics and most importantly of all, the Faith, which has survived the worst of trials. And the Church will continue to shine as our hope, now and in the future.
I share the sentiments of Editor and Gabriel in wishing you and all others affected by this misfortune a very speedy return to normality. I will pray for you all.
Thank you, Athanasius. God bless and keep you all.
There has been another terror attack against the Catholic Church perpetrated by savage islamists, this time in Indonesia.
From the article, an 18 year old lunatic tried to blow himself up in the sanctuary during sunday mass, however his bomb didn’t work. He then produced an axe and managed to slash the arm of the priest, before he was over-powered by the congregation.
Police found an ISIS flag in his belongings, but are wondering about his motivation (!?).
From the pictures in the report, it seems the congregation gave the attacker a good shoeing before he was accosted by the Police. Every cloud, eh?
I saw that online – how terrible. “Lunatic” is the word.
“Police found an ISIS flag in his belongings, but are wondering about his motivation (!?)”
I am encouraged by the sight of Greater Manchester Police leading the Victims of Crime march through Manchester. Isn’t it wonderful to see our Police spending taxpayers resources on standing up for the victims of crime? That march brought a tear to me eye: the person who had been burgled, defrauded, mugged, stabbed. The person who had his car stolen, her person assaulted, his club burnt down, her religion spat upon. Greater Manchester Police should know that their courageous stand for upholding law and order and supporting the victim, will go down in history as a high point in 21st century policing…..
…and then I woke up, saw, the glitter hat, the rainbow flags, the whistles and the Politicisation of the Police. (by the way, the tear to eye part was true)
Under the banner of Catholic Action, may I ask you for space here to publicise the rapid growth of the Knights of the Militia Immaculatae in the GB District since its launch on 19th June 2016 by the SSPX District Superior (Fr. Robert Brucciani) as part of a worldwide Apostolate being restored by Fr. Karl Stehlin?
So far, the District has 343 Knights, and further enrolments will take place at:
• the Church of St. Pius V at Groombridge on Sunday 4th September,
• the Church of Sts. Peter & Paul at Liverpool on Sunday 11th September,
• Bingley Mass Centre on the 18th September,
• Saint Saviour’s House in Bristol and at the Church of Our Lady of Glastonbury in Taunton on 25th September,
• Saint David’s Chapel in Rhos-on-Sea on 2nd October,
• Saint Andrew’s Church in Glasgow and at the Church of the Holy Name of Jesus in Gateshead on 16th October,
• and there will be a revisit to the Church of Sts. Peter & Paul in Liverpool on 23rd October.
For those whose love of the Immaculata and the graces she bestows on us is such that they would like to join the Apostolate (no subscriptions, no meetings), the background can be read at http://fsspx.uk/en/militia-immaculatae-gb and there is an excellent little booklet available for free download at http://fsspx.uk/sites/sspx/files/mi_booklet_website.pdf
Thank you and God bless.
Saint Andrew’s Church in Glasgow……….. on 16th October
Thanks for that Leprechaun, I had thought I had missed the Glasgow date. I am sure there was a prior date, maybe it was a false start.
There has been no end of commentary on the immorality exuding from the Vatican at present, or should I say, the past few years.I really fear that the pro-homosexual and anti-family agenda is being driven my prelates, at the very highest levels who are themselves living their dream.
I also convinced that a massive, I mean Church splitting schism like scandal, will rock the Catholic Church all too soon around homosexuality and sordid behaviour.
Also for a Church that is meant to lead souls towards salvation, I am horrified by the silence of our leaders on the baby killers of the abortion industry. the Holy Father seems to be more concerned about social justice and environmental issues, than he does about moral justice and sacramental issues.
Our Lady warned at Quito that these times were coming and foretold that those who should speak out will remain silent. That’s what we’re seeing today in the Church. Our Lord also warned of these times “when the charity of many will grow cold as they see wickedness abound everywhere”.
The good news is we know who will win out in the end, and it won’t be the devil and his cohorts.
Athanasius, quite true. I’t easy to forget that the Church has a Divine promise of deliverance. But as individuals, no such guarantees exist, and we are compelled to fight the good fight for our salvation.
I have just read the latest edition of Catholic Truth. Although we have healthy disagreements e.g. Pius X11, I don’t believe a return to the Latin Mass by itself would bring the Church to it’s senses, the main issue of our time is the increasing scarcity of the Mass and the main issue after the Mass is surely the 1.5 billion murdered by abortion (the majority killed by abortifacients) nonetheless I want to say clearly and loudly what an inspiration Catholic Truth is especially its editor. I specialised as you know in organisational analysis and development and individual appraisal latterly in a 100 million per year turnover company. In many years in this role I came across very few really exceptional leaders. In every respect from a purely secular perspective Patricia comes into that category. More importantly, and not just in the general prophetic role of us all she is a true prophet in every sense of the word. Because of her leadership bloggers have inspired me to continue fighting when all seemed lost. One blogger in particular emphasised the importance of dialogue if it would convert just one doubter of true church teaching. As a direct consequence of the influence of the editor and Catholic Truth bloggers I have sent extracts from my blogs to several people in the diocese concerning all the issues surrounding the attacks on the family, latterly the 8 year old boy being treated as a girl by a catholic school with the approval of the parish priest. Because of Catholic Truth inspiration 5 priests in the diocese now support the campaign. Among all the traditional catholic publications only Catholic Truth took up the cause and the editor even challenged the Bishop and priest involved.
Years ago before it became ecumenical and a mixed sex retreat the Coursilo movement taught me the three tenets necessary for a truly catholic life i.e. Prayer, Study and Action. Our editor rightly emphasises repeatedly that we are not to be just a talking shop brigade. I found the lack of support from her mid Scotland colleagues very sad no doubt because a genuine prophet, which I state again she is, is without honour among her own. I will tread on anybody’s toes to wake them up to the following reality. The editor and Catholic Truth itself, her creation, are truly a voice crying in the wilderness. We all need to dialogue with her and find out in what tangible ways we can support her. Without her inspirational leadership the blogs I have used in this campaign would never have been created. I speak plainly when I say divine providence and the holy spirit were channelled through Patricia in creating and sustaining our campaign for the defenceless in our time. After each blog exchange whatever the subject we should all ask ourselves what ACTION we can take in any context to spread and implement catholic truths. As a start we should immediately campaign for more people to join Catholic Truth readership and blogging. We should send money to Patricia too humble and self effacing to ask for it. Years ago at Ampleforth on leavers day the boss said from the pulpit ‘Many parents will wonder, having paid for expensive catholic education, why when their children leave here today they will never darken the door of a catholic church again. However even if its only in the last 30 seconds of their time on this earth everything we have taught them will come flooding back.’ The seeds that Catholic Truth and especially its editor sows can be seen exactly in the same light. Even if at times we seem to be getting nowhere God sees all and will bring our work to fruition in His time. We don’t want to be included in the 30 second category referred to above. The work of Catholic Truth is so important that again in professional terms we should look to succession planning so that somebody takes on the mantle when Patricia has had enough. We should also actively look at the organisation structure and key result areas that make Catholic Truth so effective and volunteer any tangible, practical and spiritual support Patricia and her colleagues need. As a Dad of 11 I sometimes have to say to my children ‘in these particular circumstances I don’t want you to be in any doubt as to whether or not I’m getting at you – I AM’. Don’t let Patricia and Catholic Truth down! It deserves every ounce of support possible because of its pivotal and crucial role in the economy of salvation.
Love and Prayers,
Shucks, Liam, you say the nicest things…
And now we’ll all stand and sing 25 verses of….
For she’s a jolly good fellow… and so say one of us!
That’s a beautiful and worthy tribute.
How long did it take you to compose it?
Truth spoken from the heart is timeless thankyou for your kind words spud eater. Spread the “message” would be the best way of supporting Patricia’s cause.
You are most kind but I really don’t have a “cause”. In fact, the newsletter was the brainchild of Charles J Smith, RIP, an Edinburgh scientist and published local historian – I’m sure his books will still be on sale in the big bookshops.
It was he who persisted in asking me to edit a newsletter (probably because I could type!) and I have to admit that I agreed only after a fairly lengthy period of persuasion, and even then reluctantly. If you think I’m a prophet of Old Testament proportions, then think Jeremiah who really didn’t want the job!
All I am doing – in concert with the other members of the team – is exercising my elementary Baptismal and Confirmation duty to defend the Faith when it is under attack – nothing more, nothing less.
So, while you are very kind to say all the things you said (cheque in post, by the way!) I really and truly wish you wouldn’t, because I do not want the impression to go abroad that I’m anything more than an ordinary Catholic trying (and not always succeeding, I’m afraid) to do my elementary duty.
Do you see the humility, Liam? Spudeater? Unbelievable isn’t it.
Cheeky, Spudeater! (about an hour!)
Here’s an interesting article on the modern Canonisations and the question of their infallibility
Oh for goodness sake!
McAleese is a complete fool. How on earth did that woman become president of Ireland. To say that seminaries should welcome homosexuals and that they haven’t taken celibacy vows is to say…
#1. Homosexuality in the Priesthood should be welcomed.
#2. Sex before marriage or vows is fine.
And she calls herself a devout Catholic? If she’s a devout Catholic, God help the Irish Catholics who are lukewarm!!!!
I don’t want to cause panic or anything and some of this has been reported by the BBC but I think this passage from an online report is very frightening:
“The German government has begun sending out Conscription (Draft) Orders for military service and the people being drafted into the Army are DOCTORS! SuperStation95 has confirmed two (2) individual Doctors who have received the Draft Orders. One must report to a military center to begin Army service in eight (8) days, the other is required to report in fourteen (14) days. The notices make clear the Doctors “are not to talk about this with anyone.”
It is now ultra-clear that European governments are preparing for war. This Drafting of Doctors comes less than one week after the German government issued a 69 page document to their citizens calling for the “immediate stockpiling of food and water” and justified this urgent action by saying “in case of an emergency which threatens our existence.” One day later, the Czech Republic told its citizens to begin “preparing for the worst.” Five days later, the government of Finland began quietly telling its citizens, through local government Councils, to begin stockpiling food and water, to prepare for something bad.”
Rorate Caeli has videos of Bishop Fellay recently speaking (late August) in the USA, regarding what the SSPX has been offered by Rome.
Some of the main points:
– +Fellay stresses that the SSPX are “no longer alone” in resisting modernism, citing numbers of Cardinals and Bishops who have spoken out during this Pontificate.
– the Society have been offered a prelature, where it is independent of Diocesan Bishops. The structure would be headed by an SSPX Bishop, chosen by the Pope from a list of three candidates proposed by the Society itself.
– faithful attached to the SSPX will have the officially recognised right to receive all sacraments from SSPX priests
– +Fellay notes that there is no practical change to the experience of the SSPX faithful at present; all that is new here is the official recognition of the authorities
– the offer has not been accepted yet, as +Fellay wishes to discuss every step / possibility . eventuality regarding the new structure beforehand. (Later) he says he doesn’t know how long it will take to accept the offer – one day or one year – saying he leaves that to Divine providence.
– +Fellay reads out a letter he received from a Diocesan Bishop (he does not name the Bishop). The BIshops praises the SSPX and exhorts the SSPX to resist and to provide leadership.
– SSPX has it in writing from Rome that they can freely ordain priests without needing the permission of local ordinaries.
Bishop Fellay says “everyday we make new victories”. 🙂
However there is much more in the videos and they are definitely worth a look.
I posted the videos on the Pope Saint Pius X Feast day thread.
Apologies Laura, I had not read those comments yet.
Editor – could you perhaps delete my post here and merge any replies under Laura’s original post?
Thank you for posting this! This comment may be a bit premature, but Bp. Fellay speaks early on of the numerous Cardinals and Bishops who are opposing the new tendencies – not just the SSPX. That may well be, but there is still a chasm between opposing the radical, anti-Catholic agenda of this Pope, and opposing the errors in the documents of VII, as well as the new Mass, which is the SSPX position.
But I’ll still listening, perhaps he addresses that…
Follow-up to my first comment: he did address that issue, it’s in the letter he read at the end of Part 5 from a Diocesan Bishop. That is quite a letter!
Yes, quite a letter indeed RCA Victor.
I am encouraged by all this, but of course we must be patient and prudent just like +Fellay.
PS – it turns out Laura has already posted this info on another thread, so the discussion may well move there if Editor can transfer these comments over there.
I’m afraid I can’t transfer the comments, I can only delete them and let you all re-post – I notice that some bloggers tend to use the General discussion thread as a first resort – it’s meant as a last resort. If there is any other thread that might be appropriate, bloggers should post there. The Feast of St Pius X thread seems, to my simple mind, the most obvious place to discuss anything to do with St Pius X.
Anyway, it’s done now and since I’ve just abandoned my sick bed to close down my computer and am having a quick look at the blog, I’m just going to leave it now. If you all choose to re-post on the Pius X thread, I’ll delete here. That’s the best I can offer now, at this late stage. It would be the most sensible thing to do since the GD threads fill up so quickly and information gets lost in the pile, but that’s up to you. I’m nursing a miserable cold and, thus, not in the best of form so I’ll leave you all to decide what to do.
So sorry you have such a bad cold. The nurse in me prescribes a few early nights! Judging by the time you post comments you are a late to bed lady! Hope you feel better soon. Chocolate might help too!!
Thank you for your concern. Believe me I’m doing my best to have a few early nights – not easy for all sorts of reasons with which I won’t bore you, but am going to try one of the untried remedies suggested to me by Athanasius, days ago – Beecham’s powder – and one more earlyish night.
The sneezing has (more or less) gone but I’ve still got a most annoying cough so I’m hoping the Beecham’s will see that off tonight. If not, I’ll never listen to Dr Athanasius again – ever!
PS unfortunately, the chocolate HASN’T worked – although it’s always the first thing I try!
How did you go from a Beechams easing your symptoms to being an overnight cure for a cough? I don’t think you were paying attention to Dr. Athanasius!
Still, I truly hope Beechams gives you some relief. I found them to be very helpful when I had the cold.
Since Beecham’s Powder (named after Sir Thomas Beecham? Or was he a scion of the Beecham family?) sounded like a treatment for athlete’s foot rather than a cold, I decided to look it up. Interesting set of possible side effects:
1. Allergic reactions
2. Skin rash or peeling
3. Mouth ulcers
4. Breathing problems
5. Unexplained bruising or bleeding
6. Nausea, sudden weight loss, loss of appetite, yellowing of eyes and skin
7. Visual disturbances
8. Fast pulse/irregular heartbeat
9. Well, in the interests of blog decorum, I’ll leave this one out…
10. Loss of interest in Columbo re-runs
11. Tendency to post animated graphics on the blog
I’m not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV, but I recommend fresh lime juice 3x/day. Squeeze 1/2 lime into 2 fingers of good water, drink heartily, smack and un-pucker lips afterwards.
Works like a charm….
And if the lime juice fails in its task, the quicklime certainly won’t!!!
LOL – unless Editor’s body is incorrupt….
Well I’m gong to have to try the lime juice! Nothing else is ridding me of this troublesome cough.
I have several appointments today so can’t nurse my misery, but if I have much more of this exhausting cough, quicklime here I come!
Codeine. Cough suppressant. Superlative.
I don’t speak italian, but I think this is a photo of Pope Francis leaving St Peters after the conclusion of a mass.
There is a shockingly low attendance. Francis ought to be embarrassed. Often there are excuses given for pictures like there – e.g. the mass had taken place in secret, on the moon, at 3am etc.
I remember seeing videos of the Basilica during ceremonies where Pope Benedict XVI was present – the place was heaving and I remember being shocked at the scenes of excited people scuffling to get a prominent position at the aisle as the entrance procession approached.
Gabriel, I think your being unkind to Francis here. It’s obvious that the crowds will return when the spirit of Vatican II is allowed to be fully implemented. It’s those ultra right Catholics who genuflect and stuff who are holding back the Church and not allowing the Holy Ghost to fulfil John XXIII’s dream.
I thought I might post a request here for support for this noble project of the SSPX in Philippines, the building of a great church for the St. Bernard Novitiate. Please help Fr. Coenradd Daniels with a cash donation if you can. The website below offers a number of donation methods, including PayPal. If you can’t afford a financial donation then please support this great work with your prayers. Thank you.
Ps. The exchange rate at present is around 59,000 Philippine pesos to the pound. The good thing about that is it makes even the smallest donation amount seem like a fortune, which I am sure it is in the eyes of those responsible for paying the bills.
Please ignore the wild exchange rate I gave above. There are presently 62 Philippine pesos to the pound. Whoever donates the original figure quoted above will have to sell their house and then some!!!!!
As they say in Italy “Wadamistakadamaka”!
There has been so much data from various bloggers of relevance to issues I have previously raised that it seems appropriate to try and collate and summarise. In 1909 just five years before the outbreak of WW1 Cardinal Mercier issued a pastoral letter ‘The Duties of Married Life’. It is an amazing, prophetic pastoral letter and I suggest everyone reads it.
In 1941 Archbishop Godfrey in his publication ‘The Holiness of Married Life’ wrote ‘mankind wittingly or unwittingly has entered into partnership with the enemies of Christ to undermine a divine institution which if it be venerated according to the law of God is the very bulwark in the Christian State. It has been said by many during the present War that the world suffers because of its flouting of the divine law. Has not the world abandoned in great part the reverence for the marriage bond so venerated by our forefathers in this land?
Divorce has separated father and mother and children. Unnatural practices have restricted the population and incurred the wrath of the Most High. Now He has allowed the world to be ravaged by war. Families are divided in a way which is none of their own choosing and the population of the world is being reduced by violent and bloody means. In a word, may we say the tables are turned and the vicious practices of man have reaped their own reward. Its is only by our return to the law of Christ Jesus that God will be moved to have pity on us. There can be no rebuilding of Europe worthy of the name unless it be done according to the laws of Christ, obedience to which has given to Europe in the past all that makes its history noble an good.’
Laudable as the protest outside the parish church of Clintons vice presidential candidate is because of his anti-life views we should remember the following. The same percentage of Catholics use abortifacient contraceptives as do the general population. There have been 1.5 billion abortions world wide since 1980 and in the USA since 1973 there have been 308 million killed through abortifacients five times more than those killed by surgical abortions. Just like the French priest killed in Mass couples using abortifacients also kill their child whilst priest and hierarchy remain silent on these issues. The applause in the American parish church by the congregation is reminiscent of Franz Jagerstatters dream before he was killed for opposing Nazism. He saw a train full of happy smiling, waving people about to leave a station. An Angel told him you see this train its on the way to hell. Putin’s evil mettle and annexations and our appeasement are replicas of events before WW2. Equally disturbing are many European countries preparation for war.Archbishops Godfreys warning is more relevant than ever. We are on the brink of self inflicted catastrophe and catastrophe is already rife in spiritual terms. Although I fell for spudeaters mickey taking and teasing I reaffirm all I said about the crucial importance of Catholic Truth and Patricia. If you want a lesson from history about the crucial role they play in our time study the role of Sophie Scholl and her colleagues and the white rose movement in WW2. There seems to be a clear link between contraception, abortifacients, abortions, euthanasia and genocide and holocausts with mans’ self inflicted chastisement through warfare. Inadvertently pope Francis got one thing right we are at War. How many nuclear weapons would have been required to have murdered the 1.5 billion killed through abortions/abortifacients since 1980. The protests outside the catholic church in America should be replicated in every catholic church worldwide against this on-going slaughter of their children by catholics who go to mass whilst killing their children and the hierarchy and priests for the most part become heretics because of their silence.
Love & prayers,
Your post is really good but it’s on the wrong topic forum – there is an abortion thread already – editor will give you a rocket for posting it here LOL!
Give up. I have. They want to use the GD thread for everything, let them use the GD thread for everything. Short of closing it down (to which I’m giving serious consideration) I really don’t think it’s possible to get the message across that it would be helpful if everyone first checked the sidebar for (a) new posts and (b) to see what the recent commentators have said, to avoid duplication. I do it automatically myself, but there you go, we’re all different 😀
So, thank you for your attempt to help with the housekeeping, but, as I say, just leave it. No big deal, really, in the great scheme of things.
I have learned that there is to be a second Sunday TLM offered by the Archdiocese of Glasgow.
Starting 11th September, It will be at 6pm on Sundays, at Immaculate Heart of Mary, (IHOM), Balornock.
It will mean that IHOM now offers traditional liturgy every day of the week except Mondays.
People should, of course, continue to attend / support the SSPX in Glasgow. But this new mass means there is finally some flexibility* available for Catholics in Glasgow, at times where a morning mass may not be convenient.
(*The original Diocesan traditional mass at Sacred Heart, Bridgeton, always seemed more like an effort to disrupt the SSPX – given it was scheduled for the exact same time as the SSPX mass – than a genuine desire to provide the traditional liturgy which Catholics are entitled to).
I have just posted the news of the IHOM traditonal Sunday Mass on the – er… Mass thread.
Sorry I obviously don’t understand how this blog works:
In my understanding:
– the current mass thread is about differences between the old and new mass, its not about mass times in Glasgow, hence I posted that here.
– similarly, I posted the Bishop Fellay videos here because the St Pius X thread was about the Feast of St Pius X, it wasn’t about current relations between the SSPX and the Roman Authorities.
I thought the discussion threads were for discussion of those specific topics only and general chat was for any other news, questions etc,
However, I defer to your position as Editor, of course.
I think this is an interesting expose on how different people perceive the same things in a different way!
In order to try to avoid having two conversations going on at the same time, I suggested early on that we only use the General Discussion thread to post comments for which there is no other obvious forum. In order to discourage over-use of the GD thread, I inserted the following comment, in red, in the introduction to the GD thread:
“…However, please check first, to ensure that you haven’t missed a topic thread or another thread where it would be appropriate to post your comment, as the GD discussion threads fills up very quickly.
Thus, I would see it as perfectly reasonable to post the details of Mass times on a new thread dedicated to discussing the Mass; the information might be welcome news to a reader/lurker, who is thinking of possibly attending but – for whatever reason – can’t make it on a Sunday morning.
Similarly, anything to do with Pope Saint Pius X – including news about the SSPX – is perfectly fitting to post on his Feast Day thread. After all, one of the first posts on that thread was a video about Pope Francis’ latest inter-faith remarks, so at least one blogger (I’m sure there were others) thought it perfectly in order to post a comment/video showing the contrast between Pope Saint Pius X and the Anything But Saintly Pope Francis the First! Discussion topics do throw up side-issues or illustrations, so that is perfectly in order.
I take the general line myself, that if I have a comment to post which might well fit on a current or recent topic thread (e.g. a topic which is still listed on the sidebar, or still open on scrolling) that’s where I will post it.
It’s really not the end of the world, of course, if someone posts here rather than the most recent or current topic thread but important information can be missed if there is more than one conversation going on at the same time, on the same theme.
And I can see why you have been posting here if you think the topic threads must be strictly on those topics, but any discussion will always deviate a little, may introduce side issues etc, and as long as we don’t end up totally off topic, that’s perfectly acceptable and can be very fruitful. By way of analogy, you won’t find many political discussions that are headlined relating to a particular political party, which don’t deviate into talking about other political parties!
We have talked about dispensing with the General Discussion thread, so I’d welcome your views; I see Gerontius has posted a link about “ad orientem” Masses today, an article from 1P5, which, again, I’d have placed on the Mass thread. It’s an issue related to the traditional Mass, so why ignore the new thread on the traditional Mass to post it here? And now he’s had a response from Olaf, so before we know it, we might well end up having another conversation about the traditional Mass! You just watch this space!
So, anyone with a view on the rationale for having a General Discussion thread, is welcome to offer their opinions now. Should we ditch it? I only ask because, in all honesty, seeing the list of growing GD past threads, I can’t help wondering just how many people would actually bother reading them?
Over to you lot!
I see Gerontius has posted a link about “ad orientem” Masses today, an article from 1P5, which, again, I’d have placed on the Mass thread. It’s an issue related to the traditional Mass, so why ignore the new thread on the traditional Mass to post it here?
I didn’t ignore the new thread dear lady, because the primary focus of the post was on the changing attidudes of Bishops to the modernist heresy, not the TLM or the Novus Ordo…… SHEESH WUMMIN, I’m already on my way to the naughty corner
This just in from 1P5
Bishop Morlino – BRAVO!
I wonder how many of the Scottish Bishops will follow this Good Shepherds example – I can think of only one….hope I’m wrong and that more follow suit.
Fr Ninian Noonan was ordained in the new Mass, although he is being lauded as one of Una Voce’s “successes”. They have priests who do both Masses, so he’s the latest, I believe.
Bishop Robson is “escaping the clutches of the episcopal cabal” because he’s only helping out with Una Voce Masses, as far as I know. If he ever starts offering the old rite all the time and training his priests to do so, that would be a different matter, I imagine.
I know about Una Voce, and in Scotland they are quite weak. They have always been too keen to cosy up to the bishops, accepting the crumbs instead of demanding the right to the old Mass. They are always so grateful for every “concession” and defend the bishops no matter what.
In addition, I believe the head of Una Voce in Scotland actually attends the novus ordo in Glasgow to fulfil his Sunday obligation!
Gerontius, ( I’m coming on to the crowded naughty step – shove up) what a pity it’s only monthly and ‘subject to review’. How often have I heard that one, and then at the second Mass the numbers have plummeted and subsequently continued to fall until, by the end of the ‘trial period’ it has been found that there’s ‘really no demand’. The trouble with the first such Mass is that there are always a few who are merely curious and who go off in a huff saying they’re glad they’ve got a proper Mass in their parishe where Father doesn’t turn his back on them and mumble in a language nobody knows any more! I know from experience that without some instruction (or a special grace) the average modern Catholic lacks any spiritual or intellectual framework into which he can fit so profound an experience. That, alas, is the situation to which the pap and spirit of the world-filled NO has led him. I hope that there are some good energetic souls who can help to fill this pastoral gap, because I doubt that either the good bishop or Fr. Emerson will. Maybe the Edinburgh SSPX folk can go to two Masses once a month to boost the numbers and hand out useful literature. Er, half kidding!
Christina, thanks for your reply. a concise analysis of the current situation – also a very interesting and thought provoking one. I think there’s been a step change in the awareness of the current dangers to the Faith, spoken about by (the then) Cardinal Ratzinger, in some of the Bishops worldwide. Cardinal Ratzinger of course was speaking about the 3rd secret of Fatima.
The mist and darkness is still very thick. Fr Malachi Martin referred to this as the masonic/satanic superforce which had gained entry to the Church, but here and there a ray sunlight is beginning to break through……
By the way Christina, how are you keeping? Well I hope. My prayers for your recovery continue of course.
Is there anybody out there who remembers an ordinary Mass prior to Vatican 2? I was only a child and my memories are dim. However, I definitely remember some “audience participation” in that I remember responses we made such as “et cum spiritu tuo” and reciting the Pater Noster. I say this as how else could I know how to say these responses? I also still know loads of old hymns (such as Soul of my Saviour) off by heart as we didn’t have hymn books.
I’m intrigued by this and would love to know.
I remember in the 60’s the introduction of so called “dialogue Mass” in which the congregation did all the responses in Latin, so you might be thinking of that perhaps?
I agree with Elizabeth – Pius XII introduced dialogue Masses (a trick of the early modernists, IMHO, to prepare us for the vernacular) and I think we usually had a hymn to the Blessed Sacrament at the end and also at Benediction. If you went to Benediction, you would have learnt the old hymns and we were also taught them at school.
Crofter Lady, Elizabeth and Josephine. After Pius XII wrote his very beautiful Encyclical, ‘Mediator Dei’, parts of it were taken and used by the early modernists for their own nefarious purposes (spot on, Josephine), and in 1958 the Sacred Congregatio of Rites issued its Instruction ‘De Musica Sacra et Sacra Liturgica’, which introduced the ‘Dialogue Mass’. With hindsight we can see, all too well, that it was softening us up for what was to come a few years later. It was ignored completely in my part of the world, and I don’t think it had any impact generally, and those who were used to following the Mass in silence, using our missals (which is what Pius wanted to encourage), hated and avoided it.
Elizabeth, I don’t think Pius XII is to be blamed. He died in October 1958, and the modernists took advantage of his serious illness and betrayed him by issuing this Instruction in September 1958 when he was incapacitated and close to death. In earlier times he would have recognised this Instruction for what it was and it would never have been issued.
Here are the relevant parts of this Instruction:
31. Finally, the third and most perfect manner of participation is had when the faithful give the liturgical responses to the celebrant, almost conversing with him, and pronouncing the parts proper to them in a clear voice. Of this more perfect participation there are four degrees:
a. In the first degree the faithful give the easiest liturgical responses to the celebrant, which are: Amen; Et cum spiritu tuo; Deo gratias; Gloria tibi, Domine; Laus tibi, Christe; Habemus ad Dominum; Dignum et justum est, and Sed libera nos a malo.
b. In the second degree the faithful give those responses which the acolyte must pronounce according to the rubrics, and if Holy Communion is given during the Mass, also recite the Confiteor and the triple Domine non sum dignus.
c. The third degree is that in which the faithful recite parts of the Ordinary of the Mass with the celebrant, namely: Gloria in excelsis Deo, the Credo, the Sanctus, Benedictus and the Agnus Dei.
d. The fourth and final degree is that in which the faithful also recite with the celebrant parts of the Proper ofthe Mass: the Introit, Gradual, Offertory, and Communion. This last degree can be practiced with fitting dignity only by select and well trained groups.
32. In read* Masses, the entire Pater Noster, an appropriate and ancient prayer in preparation for Communion, may be recited by the faithful, but only in Latin and with all joining in the Amen. Its recitation in the vernacular is forbidden.
33. Popular religious hymns may be sung during read Mass, but with the observance of that law which prescribes that they be suited to the separate parts of the Mass (Cf. n. 14-b).
* ‘Read Mass was an attempt by this Instruction to replace the term ‘Low Mass’!!!
Thanks for all that information. i am always perplexed by the insistence on lay participation, saying this prayer and that prayer, albeit in Latin because I thought that was the role of the servers, to speak for us. I have attended a dialogue Mass (the SSPX in France do them) and I hate it.
Sorry, to make clear, I don’t hate the Mass, I hate hearing the responses being made by the congregation!
mea culpa – I am as guilty as anyone of filling up this thread about the Mass instead of going to the Mass thread. I actually see your point in wondering about closing this one down. I think I would do so and just have the topics. If you want my vote, it’s to close down the General Discussion blog.
Thank you for that vote. I’m still recovering (almost there) from a horrible cold and sore throat, so not been able to keep up with the blog today, but when I get back to normal (and tomorrow I will – of necessity – have to be away from my computer quite a bit) I will get down to some serious thinking about this thread.
Anyone share Josephine’s view that this thread might be a suitable candidate for euthanasia?
Yes, Ed, I agree with Josephine. I’d rather concentrate on the topics and the DT does get a bit raggedy.
That’s two “close down” votes. Gotcha!
I say keep it open.
What’s the DT?
the DT is the Discussion Thread, more generally referred to as the GD thread.
Thank you Athanasius and sorry for the tardy reply, but with young bairns I don’t have much time to blog.
I’d also keep the DT / GD thread open so numpties like me don’t get confused – er…
I must have been thinking of delirium tremens – Hic.
I think shutting down the General Discussion threads would be a bad thing.
#1. It restricts what one can write about
#2. Off topic posts will be all over the topic threads
#3. It will give the moderator more headaches than now.
One vote NOT to close down, but giving three reasons. Does that count as 4 votes to 2 in favour of remaining open?????
It’s the way I tell ’em 😀
I think a hat-trick gets a bonus. It wont be the only hat-trick we will see this week. 🙂
I agree entirely with Summa and his reasons.
(Sorry dear lady, it seems I’ve unintentionally added to your frustration over off topic posts)
Are we on the same page? You know.. green and white the hat-trick at CP on Saturday? 😉
A hat-trick is perfectly possible, but let’s just hope the defence doesn’t let two hat-tricks in at the other end!!
Not possible. Not possible!
I note your post time (12:16 am)
I also note Dembele hat-trick ~ 12 hrs later.
Methinks you might be prescient mate! arf, arf.
I’m no one to brag, but… 🙂 Hail Hail
No. That’s definitely a foul.
Giving 3 reasons in 1 go.
I agree with Summa. Even if it is raggedy, nice word, it is somewhere to post the odd topic that fits nowhere else.
OK, folks, I’m getting the message. Leave the GD thread open and perhaps find a means of tailoring it to avoid duplication. I’ll put my thinking cap on…
I’ve just seen this – stumbled across it when my page went haywire.
You’re a cheeky devil, right enough. But a lovely cheeky devil 😀
I was thinking today – NOT that I’m complaining at all – that the blog has been relatively free of troublemakers recently, after a bad spate a while back of trolls like ‘Fr Arthur’ and ‘Domchas’ etc. Perhaps I’m speaking too soon . . . anyway, long may it last!
Shsssssh! Yes, in terms of trolling, the blog has been fairly quiet recently and let’s hope it stays that way.
Fr Arthur seems to have opted for a monastic silence, and we wish him well in that regard.
Domchas/Chasdom is, likewise, keeping a low profile although I’ve had some “intelligence” come my way about him, which has made interesting reading – his educational background, his profession, blah blah… One does have one’s sources, as one knows only too well – doesn’t one? He’d be livid if he ever found out…
So, Shsssssh! 😉
I understand. ‘Know thine enemy’. Never a bad thing!
Exactly! One has got it in one!
I vote for keeping it, with an adjustment: how about a subtitle for each new one to narrow the field somewhat? For example, “UK Parish Scandals,” or “Hierarchy Scandals,” or “New Victories/Defeats for Tradition,” or “Culture War Updates,” etc. Of course, that could lead to multiple simultaneous GD’s, thereby cutting into your pubbing and clubbing time….
I’d like to keep it open too!
I think the GD thread should stay open although I think RCA Victor’s idea of somehow using subtitles or some way of keeping it on certain topics, is a good one.
I forgot to say I do find it a bit irritating when the same topic is being discussed here and on another thread, so I think there has to be something changing, yet we do need a place to post something that is not covered in other threads.
Athanasius, I thanked you for your response but went into the ethereal domains.
I would also like to see the G.D / D.T thread remaining open for numpties like me 🙁
I vote to keep the GD thread open, after all, where I would post the following which is taken from the newsletter of St. Patrick’s parish in Edinburgh’s Old Town?
Good Manners within the church Fr Philip would like to remind everyone of the following:
1. An atmosphere of silence Some noise within a church is unavoidable, and sometimes conversation is necessary, but there seems to be increasing noise before Mass (especially on a Saturday evening), which hinders others from praying.
2. The importance of the final blessing and dismissal Occasionally it may be necessary to leave Mass early, but to do so regularly is to absent oneself from the commissioning to witness over the coming week.
3. Reception of Holy Communion When the new translation was promulgated in 2011, it was stated by the Bishops of Scotland that the normal posture for receiving Holy Communion in Scotland would be by standing preceded by bowing as an act of reverence, If one genuflects/kneels, this can be unsettling for persons behind in the queue, who are unsteady on their feet.
As you can see, the first two points are good but where does the priest get this bit about the bishops and standing for Communion? Especially as half a mile away from his church is the cathedral, the Archbishop’s own church, where kneeling for communion is the norm and always has been. Also, half a mile in the other direction is the Dominican church, which is also the Chaplaincy for the University, and I’ve been told that many of the students there have started kneeling for Communion so they aren’t following the bishops, if indeed they have made this pronouncement. I have also been told that many of the female students have started wearing mantillas.
In view of Abp. Tartaglia’s secularist comments, as you posted on the Fr. DeLallo thread, I propose that we begin giving your bishops and priests “Fidelity Ratings,” based on criteria developed by your esteemed self – much like the voting records of American politicians are rated on liberal and conservative websites. Perhaps the rest of the UK clergy as well….
It is nice to read good news stories about people turning the corner.
“Pray the Rosary every day. Attend Mass every Sunday. Go to Confession regularly. If you do these things, you will be able to withstand and get through anything,” she said. “I know what it’s like to be led astray and fall into a life of sin.
I was reading the “Stories and Readings” section of the Fatima Pilgrim Statue book, a brief passage about Francisco’s father being awakened one night by his son’s crying – he went to his bedroom and found his son with his head in his pillow, trying to muffle his crying. When asked why he was crying, Francisco replied “God is so sad, on account of so many sins that people commit all the time.”
So I started wondering how God, who is pure Spirit, could be sad, or express any other human emotion, for that matter. Is this a reference to Jesus’ human soul, which presumably He still possesses in Heaven?
Scripture is full of references to God’s anger, wrath and other emotions, and Our Lord expressed sorrow – e.g. “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not?” (Matthew’s Gospel)
And we are taught that our core duty is to do God’s will because that is “pleasing” to Him.
I think we need to remember St Paul’s warning to us that our human minds have limited understanding. There are, I have no doubt, plenty of books on the subject (which I haven’t read! But which I suspect all boil down to what I have just said, she opined with typical humility!)
We will understand fully in the next life, how it can be that God Who is all goodness has revealed Himself to us in a variety of ways, including through the kind of emotions that we understand in our humanity, only too well. Until then, we can only speculate although…
The key thing for us is to concentrate on pleasing God – not making Him sad or angry!
Thank you Editor!
Thank you for thanking me!
Please can all CT readers remember that 2016 is the Centenary of the Apparitions of the Angel at Fatima. Perhaps it would be an opportunity to pray the prayers he gave us:-
“My God, I believe, I adore, I hope and I love Thee. And I ask pardon for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not hope and do not love Thee”.
“Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I adore Thee profoundly and I offer Thee the Most Precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, present in all the tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the outrages, sacrileges and indifference by which He Himself is offended. And through the infinite merits of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I beg of Thee the conversion of poor sinners”.
“O Most Holy Trinity, I adore Thee. My God, My God, I love Thee in the Most Blessed Sacrament”.
The full story on the Angel’s appearances in 1916 can be found on pages 5-8 of this excellent Fatima book:- The True Story of Fatima by Fr John de Marchi http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/TrueStoryOfFatima-byJohnDeMarchi.pdf
Thank you very much for that reminder and for the link to the full story of the Angel’s appearances in 1916, to prepare the children for the visits of Our Lady. I’m very guilty of tending to forget about those early apparitions, so – again – sincere thank you for the reminder of the anniversary.
Margaret USA emailed to ask if I could post the following link on the General Discussion thread
Mission accomplished, with apologies for the delay – I’ve been away from my computer most of today.
Some time later: I’ve just realised that the above rhymes. I’m a poet and I didn’t know it…Oops. Another rhyme!
Brexit means Brexit means BREXIT!
I am so fed up listening to “remain” politicians angling for another referendum on the EU, using the tactics “we didn’t know for what we were voting.” I watched a little bit of the debate in the EU parliament this morning, and then emailed both the English Richard Corbett MEP and the Scots Alyn Smith MEP SNP – Corbett was the original speaker quickly supported by Smith so the bulk of my email to Corbett is also found in my email to Smith, copied below for your information and, I hope, interest. I would encourage everyone to email their MEPs and MPs on this as they really are, as I say in my email, insulting the electorate…
Dear Mr Smith
I have just watched your support for Richard Corbett’s disgraceful attack on the UK electorate in his response to the State of the Union address on TV by the EU President and I write to express my outrage at the propaganda propagated by “remainers” like yourself, to the effect that we, the electorate, are too stupid to have known for what we were voting. Of course the details could not be given off the cuff at the time – or even at this early stage – and it is irritating to hear daft MPs and MEPs in superior manner asking “but what does Brexit mean?” It means we are leaving the EU (you bunch of numpties, is what I tell my TV!) Just like, Mr Smith, when over 60% of the Scottish electorate voting in the SNP Consultations on “gay marriage” voted against, not once, but twice (and it took a long time to complete that ridiculous and deliberately difficult form) your party, having foisted “gay marriage” on us anyway, is determined to insult the electorate again by trying to overturn the UK vote on BREXIT. I voted to remain in the UK because of the contempt shown by your party for the electorate in the consultation exercise and I will continue to vote anti-SNP at every turn, because of your demonstrable contempt for the electorate. I note that you are still going ahead with the intrusive Named Person Scheme despite the Judges in the Supreme Court in London highlighting the fact that, to paraphrase slightly without changing the meaning of the Judges’ words, it is a feature of totalitarian regimes to seek to take control of the minds of children and set them against their parents.
Anyone with half a brain knows that once we have control of our own borders, money and trade, we can make it on our own as we did for centuries before the EU project existed. It’s a ridiculous project, worsening by the minute with national governments overseen by a foreign body and now an EU army in the making. No thanks.
I live in Scotland and I voted to leave the EU – the details will be worked out; although I found the leave arguments convincing in themselves during the campaign, I, like many others I’ve met, made up my mind to vote “leave” the minute the referendum was announced. I am not stupid – and if you think that I am, then you need to investigate why Scots universities are giving not one, but two degrees and more to people who are so academically thick that they don’t see the need for rule by a foreign “parliament”.
I’m less impressed with your side of the debate accusing the leave side of lying when it is now demonstrably true that YOUR side lied with dire warnings of the end of the world after the BREXIT vote if the electorate voted to leave. I smiled through every TV debate – and I watched them all. No, Mr Smith, far from not knowing for what we were voting, we knew perfectly well – we were voting OUT of the EU. Roll on.
Clearly you (and Richard Corbett MEP who thanked you [for your support for his] impassioned insult to the UK electorate) have a lot of money to lose when we leave the EU, but that is too bad. There has been a vote to leave. Live with it.
Great letter Editor, giving it to Mr Smith with both barrels!
Mr Smith recently attacked Catholic schools and indicated that he thought that pro-LGBTI propaganda should over-ride the human rights of families to children’s education in line with their beliefs/values.
This was particularly sinister as he is standing of deputy leader of the SNP (though is an outside candidate I believe).
I was un-surprised afterward, to find out that Mr Smith “lives with his boyfriend”.
WOW! Is there a Scottish politician who is not homosexual and living with a partner? We must watch the next round of Party Conferences, to see if they make it mandatory to be “gay” in order to stand for Parliament!
Please accept a 20 minute ovation, interspersed with numerous bouquets. Fabulous.
Shucks, thanks folks, but all this praise really isn’t helping me to remain humble… 😉
The death of Fr Gabriel Amorth, Rome’s Chief Exorcist, aged 91 years has been reported in the Catholic News Agency.
Please pray for the repose of his soul.
Thank you for that information, I didn’t know that. May he rest in peace.
If this kind of thing can happen, so much for the increased security!
A friend just emailed me pictures of the new SSPX chapel in Madrid, as posted on a sedevacantist website, denouncing the modernist construction of the place. I thought surely there was some mistake, until I went to the Spain/Portugal Society website and saw it for myself:
The pictures of the Madrid chapel, apparently just consecrated in July, are the 7th set down. Anyone besides me find it difficult to believe that this is an SSPX chapel? Anyone else mortified by the ugliness of it? Who is responsible for this travesty?
By Spanish standards that chapel is extremely modern, not remotely like a Traditional chapel, other than the altar of course.
I notice that there are no Stations of the Cross on the wall, just little crosses, and the jury is definitely out on that image of Our Lady, particularly the background it sits on. Surely they must have had probelms obtaining a chapel and were forced to buy that one out of desperation, but with plans to make it look more Traditional with time? I can’t believe any superior of the SSPX would have bought that building by choice. It is far from what the SSPX faithful remember or expect.
There is no description of the chapel on the Spain-Portugal website, but the sedevacantist website (NovusOrdoWatch) where similar pictures were published (and ridiculed, of course) claims it is a brand new chapel – new construction, costing into the millions of euros. Well whatever it is, it is completely bizarre. One of the NOW pictures is of Bishop de Galarreta standing outside the building with a couple of our priests.
I also notice there’s no “INRI” on the Crucifix, and it’s anyone’s guess as to what that depiction of Our Lady is supposed to be doing. It looks like she’s unwrapped a boulder from a satin sheet.
Interesting that the Spain-Portugal district is called an “Autonomous House,” which according to the District list means “a district in formation.” Judging from the Frank Lloyd Wright architecture, I’d say the formation is severely lacking!
I hadn’t noticed the missing INRI, and I have no idea what that image of Our Lady is. I looked up a number of images corresponding to apparitions and couldn’t find one like it. More digging is required, I think.
Could this be it? (The exterior statue, that is):
(Our Lady Star of the Sea)
Athanasius, sadly the church was built from scratch to replace the former chapel which was a converted supermarket. Whoever sanctioned it should be shot. Apparently the image of our lady is based on an apparition but I’m not sure what one. Regarding the Stations of the Cross, what a lot of people don’t know is that it is the Cross, and not the picture, that is the Station. Apparently you can have Crosses without pictures but not pictures without Crosses. I think the Crosses in this chapel are probably temporary until a suitable set can be obtained.
I can hardly believe the SSPX would have sanctioned the building of such a chapel, it beggars belief. I would sure like to know who gave the go-ahead for that. If the Holy Office still existed in its Traditional form his name would surely be placed on the Index of those suspect of lunacy.
I wonder what Bishop de Galarreta thought of it. He must have been taken aback by the Modernist design. I just can’t get my head around Traditional priests having a blank canvas for a Church and coming up with that hideous result.
I do know about the Stations pictures and crosses, it’s just that I thought they would have had a set of pictures in place for the opening. In terms of expense, it wouldn’t have been that costly in the grand scheme of things.
RCA Victor, it certainly is an ugly building and the resistance crowd have been making noises about it, claiming that it proves the SSPX have sold out and are building Vatican II churches. They have completely failed to mention the fact that new churches have recently been built in America, the Philippines, Chile etc and are all beautiful churches.
Yes, my first reaction was “Why don’t they just hand the resistance their talking points on a silver platter?”
There are several new churches here in the USA District, and none of them even remotely resemble this nonsense – they are all traditional. This is a real scandal.
RCA Victor, Have you seen the outside of the building and the hideous sculpture on top? I’ve seen some photos of the new churches in the US and they are beautiful.
Yes, it’s even uglier than the silly image behind the altar!
Vianney – should have posted that picture of Mary Star of the Sea down here (see above) – I think the ugly metal statue is someone’s utterly failed attempt to reproduce the picture.
I agree that the altarpiece is awful, especially the face of Our Lady. They’d have done better to leave the space blank if that’s the best the artist could do. I do like the marble flooring of the altar though – it’s spectacular.
What do you think the round pastry in paper near Our Lady means?
I think it’s supposed to represent the Earth, but that’s just a guess!
I cant seem to find those pictures, have they been removed?
Summa – go here: http://www.fsspx.es/es/media/photos and go to the 7th series of pictures, entitled “Misa y Procesion Corpus Christi – Madrid – HS.”
That is truly hideous! The depiction of Our Lady is a disgrace and I cannot understand how it was even considered to be appropriate. The rest of the Building resembles an industrial unit. Not conducive to prayer at all I would have thought.
I have just had a look on a Recalcitrant website and I agree that it is awful. I immediately thought that it looked like a Masonic Temple.
One more strange thing among many: the incomplete Crucifix appears to not even be a real Crucifix, but to be painted on the wall behind the altar. It’s kind of hard to see in pictures 1 and 3, but #2 seems pretty clear. The main clue is the stream of water from Christ’s side aimed at what appears to be the Immaculate Heart of Mary, which, as far as I can tell, has no sword in it, as a traditional depiction should. That stream of water has to be painted, it couldn’t be a 3D stream (which would be even more absurd and laughable than a painted stream!).
HEADS UP FOLKS – CYANIDE ALERT!
Gang of Nine’s Cd. Marx: ‘I wish my parish priests and seminarians were like Martin Luther’
St. Paul warned us about wolves in sheep clothing rising from within the flock, Luther being a prime example.
But this guy Marx, Luther’s fawning admirer, is something else again. He would make an excellent Lycanthrope.
The link to Gloria TV below gives a shocking, much needed (and appreciated) warning to all the Faithful to beware of the SERPENT SEED!
That video is absolutely damning. It just keeps getting worse.
Thank you for alerting us to that gloria.tv video. Cardinal Marx is well named!
H.E. Marx (appropriately named) probably already has his wish: I’m sure his clergy are as heretical and/or apostate as he is! They don’t have to nail their theses to any door: they’ve been nailing the Church to the Cross for many years.
N O T I C E . . .
BOOK: Creation, Evolution, and Catholicism: A Discussion for Those Who Believe (recommended by book reviewer in Catholic Truth)
The kindle edition is free on Amazon September 23, and also on the 24th and 25th. Those with no kindle can read it on any device by downloading the free Amazon app shown on the left side of the page.
Please pass this notice to anyone who may be interested in the provocative educational read. Also, follow us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/scienceandcatholicism/
There is no scientific explanation for the miracle of San Genarro, it defies science. The non-believers always come up with this line; they did it with Our Lord’s ressurection, the Turin Shroud, Lourdes, the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, etc. The problem for them is that they can’t replicate what they claim is the scientific explanation for these supernatural events.
Besides this, it is known that whenever the blood of San Genarro fails to liquify on any of its three annual dates a tragedy befalls Naples. This was shown twice when the blood failed to liquify and Vesuvius erupted on both occasions causing widespread damage.
Today is the Feast of St Pio – Padre Pio.
Happy feast day everyone.
Happy Feast Day! We’ve never had a Padre Pio thread, so I’m sorry I hadn’t realised today is his feast, probably because in the traditional missal it’s the Feast of St Linus.
I usually do remember this date in connection with Padre Pio, because it was the day he died, and it happened to be a big day in my own young life, at the time, so it stuck in my mind. I hope I haven’t mis-remembered that because – with regard to my mind – I find myself saying quite a lot these days “of all the things I’ve ever lost, I miss my mind the most”!
I’ll be away from my computer for much of today but, be assured… I WILL be back (God – and WordPress – willing!)
Haha, this SO reminds me of wur Editor with her “tone”…
I’ll check out that link later – so you can look for good cover in the meantime!
I thought I would drop in here to my favourite (!$$$*****!) thread, to share some good news for a change.
By the time I had arrived at the SSPX chapel in Glasgow for Mass this evening, the sacristan was clearing up after a young man had been received into the Church, on this, his 19th birthday. I had the privilege of meeting him briefly, and his family, before they all left, and it was just great to see someone so young having taken that momentous step – and at such a time of crisis in the Church, too.
So, please pray for him and for his lovely, very friendly, family.
Editor, never mind the tone, you’d need to revisit the style 🙂