Fatima Prophesy, Bows & Arrows…
Extract from the published part of the Third Secret of Fatima taken from Vatican website…
And we saw … a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father’. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him Source (Emphasis added)
Now read the following extract from An excerpt of a speech given by Christopher Ferrara at the Fatima Center Only the Pope Can Save Washington Conference, September 22 – 24, 2015 published in the Fatima Crusader (Winter 2015)
Unparalleled Church Crisis
Certainly that element of the Secret that predicts an unparalleled crisis in the Church – I mean the text the Vatican has withheld, wherein the Blessed Virgin explains the meaning of the obscure vision published in 2000 – would have been clearer in 1960. In that year revolution was beginning in both the Church, with the calling of the Second Vatican Council, and the world at large, which underwent an accelerated descent into total depravity. (Anyone who is old enough to remember those days will recall that the Sixties were a time in which it seemed that both the Church and society had crossed over a threshold into a state of affairs the once Christian West had never seen before.)
Today, so many large pieces of the puzzle have fallen into place that even the smallest pieces are now readily fitted into the picture. For example, the Synod on the Family, where we see precisely that “the greatest persecution of the Church does not come from enemies outside, but arises from sin in the Church.” …
And yet, one small but seemingly important piece of the puzzle has always seemed odd and completely out of place to me. It is Sister Lucia’s revelation that in the vision of the “Bishop dressed in White” the future Pope’s executioners “fired bullets and arrows at him.” Arrows? What is the meaning of this reference to such primitive weaponry? One might be tempted to think that surely Lucia must have stumbled here, that Our Lady could not possibly mean literally that a future Pope would be hunted down and killed by men wielding bows and arrows.
Here too, however, developments over the passage of time seem to have allowed us to fit even this odd little piece into the bigger picture – with a resounding and quite chilling confirmation of what is actually the great significance of a seemingly incongruous detail. “We Will Conquer Your Rome, Break Your Crosses, Enslave Your Women” … ISIS
Consider first a recent article in the ISIS magazine Dabiq, quoting a fanatical Imam who “prophesies” as follows: “We will conquer your Rome, break your crosses, and enslave your women, by the permission of Allah, the Exalted.”
Next consider a recent article in the Italian daily Il Giornale, which may well provide one of those precise historical clues that clarify a prophecy as its fulfilment nears (like the ripening fig tree that heralds the coming of Spring, to use Our Lord’s parable of the advent of the Last Days).
The article reports on an “e-book” being distributed to Muslim militants that provides instructions to prepare for the conquest of Rome by learning to use various weapons, including “home-made bows and arrows.” The idea is to stockpile weapons whose possession is not currently illegal so that they can be employed in urban guerrilla warfare. As the instruction manual states: “The advent of the war for the conquest of Rome will consist primarily of the urban guerilla in the cities and streets of Europe.”
Suddenly the reference to a Pope of the future being slain by bullets and arrows falls into place in the grand puzzle that is being completed before our eyes. Can we be certain this is so? Without the Virgin’s own explanation of the vision – for which the Vatican has substituted the ludicrous “interpretation” of the Vatican Secretary of State – we obviously cannot be. Then again, it is always prudent to examine the signs of the times when Heaven itself has given us a warning of impending disaster – a disaster to which nearly the entire hierarchy remains oblivious as they persevere in the ruinous course of the past fifty years of drift and decay in the Church and widening apostasy in the world. Source
Comment:
It is true that we really only begin to make sense of prophecies as they unfold; hence, when news came that Pope Benedict, on abdication, intended to retain the papal dress, those familiar with the Fatima prophecies immediately recalled that part of the prophecy where the children saw “a bishop dressed in white” and their “impression that it was the Holy Father” – quite different from their other clear references to the Pope.
Christopher Ferrara, rather surprisingly in my view, appears to assume that this “Bishop dressed in white” who is to be killed IS the reigning Pope, but with two “Bishops dressed in white” currently in Rome, surely a doubt arises as to the identity of the Bishop of the vision – certainly, if this event is to occur during the lifetimes of Pope Francis and the abdicated Pope Benedict.
However, the fact that Muslim militants are being exhorted to learn to use and to stockpile bows and arrows, enables us – in the current frenzy of Islamist attacks in Europe – to make sense of the reference to “arrows” in the Fatima prophecy which has long puzzled us all. And to consider the rather obvious question: Is the Islamists’ ambition to conquer Rome not far off?
Is there, in fact, a connection between (a) the increasing numbers of ISIS terrorist attacks in Europe (b) the Fatima warning about the death of the “Bishop dressed in white” (c) the exhortation to Muslim militants to learn to use and to stockpile “arrows” and (d) the forthcoming 100th anniversary of the Fatima prophecies in 2017? I can’t help thinking the answer is obviously “yes” – but what do you think?
Comments (43)
That is just unbelievable stuff, about the militant Muslims being told to stock up with bullets and arrows to conquer Rome. Who would have been able to foresee that – apart, obviously, from Our Blessed Lady!
Yes, I do think there’s a connection between (a) the increasing numbers of ISIS terrorist attacks in Europe (b) the Fatima warning about the death of the “Bishop dressed in white” (c) the exhortation to Muslim militants to learn to use and to stockpile “arrows” and (d) the forthcoming 100th anniversary of the Fatima prophecies in 2017 – there definitely is a connection, IMHO.
I wonder if somebody sent Pope Francis that information and the name of the e-book mentioned in the introduction, if he would at long last consecrate Russia in union with the bishops of the world, as required to stop all this death and destruction, all the fear of terrorism in the world right now?
Michaela,
“I wonder if somebody sent Pope Francis that information and the name of the e-book mentioned in the introduction, if he would at long last consecrate Russia in union with the bishops of the world…”
You know what? I suspect that Papa Francis would write off this information as being an invention of fundamentalist Christians (like us!)
Priceless!
I am blown away by this as well. I Googled to see if I could find the e-book and found this book where it puts bows and arrows in a list of primitive weapons on page 23 – I’m not sure if it’s a different book but it is all very detailed. http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/863.pdf
http://www.blazingcatfur.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Cover-ISIS-guide-how-to-survive-in-the-west-620×729.jpg
Lily,
Thanks for posting the link to that book – it is really chilling, especially seeing that list which includes “home-made bows and arrows” on page 23.
I see you don’t comment on whether there’s a connection with all that is going on in the world today in terms of terrorism and the 100th anniversary of the Fatima apparitions next year, but I doubt if anyone can still be doubting that now, reading the plans already laid by Islamists, in the link you provide. Again, thank you for that.
Lily,
Page 23 is just gobsmacking! I can’t believe it!
It really does make you sit up and think harder and harder about what is happening in the world, and the role of ISIS in the Fatima prophecies. I think everyone is so fixed on Russia that the ISIS terrorism is just not being connected to Fatima at all – or maybe I should speak for myself, LOL!
But people are “fixed on Russia” because that was the first country to publicly deny God’s existence. My understanding is that it is for that reason that we are experiencing the diabolical disorientation around the world and in the Church herself. Once Russia is given back to God through the consecration, everything else will return to order, and ISIS’ terrorism will end. That’s my take on it, but if I’m misinterpreting, I’m open to being corrected.
I think 2017 will be a very fateful year for the Church, and therefore the world, and I think that fate will descend upon us either in the midst of these insane celebrations of the heretic Martin Luther – whose “rehabilitation” was one of the unwritten goals of the “spirit of VII” – or shortly thereafter. Surely the hand of Our Lady cannot hold back the arm of Her Son much longer, in the face of this sickening, deranged, anti-Catholic Francis/VII revolution.
And didn’t one of the bloggers post something on the GD thread about the citizens of one or more European nations lately being told to prepare for war?
RCA Victor,
If you recall, I reported in my BREXIT article, published in the current newsletter, (September, 2016) that President Hollande has been touring the continent pushing for a European-wide army
Go figure, as you guys keep saying!
Only one thing to add and it is this, from the heart: the work of restoring the once great and glorious Catholic Faith to its rightful place in the Church and the world, cannot begin too soon. All hands on deck for that, please and thank you!
Editor,
Funny you should mention the Restoration, as I conceived of the following proposal early this morning regarding regularization of the SSPX:
I suggest the Society propose a pilot or trial phase of regularization to test Francis’ goodwill and sincerity, as follows:
1. The SSPX will be allowed to operate freely within one diocese whose bishop is not otherwise disposed to receive them (e.g. Pittsburgh).
2. Within that diocese, the SSPX will be allowed to:
• operate diocesan parishes, esp. those that are failing or about to close;
• offer exclusively traditional rites in those parishes, in addition to a parish which they may already operate;
• teach in the seminary, esp. the Traditional Mass, Thomistic theology and Gregorian chant;
• teach in any diocesan Catholic schools, depending on the availability of our nuns;
• be given generous column space in the diocesan newspaper;
• invited to participate in the diocesan priests’ council.
3. In addition, the following:
• In order for the Pope to demonstrate his commitment to restoring Tradition across the Church, rather than as some special favor to the SSPX, the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate should be restored to the flourishing condition they were in as of July 2013, when the Commissar was appointed who subsequently eviscerated them. In addition, the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate should be allowed to continue their present course undisturbed.
https://eponymousflower.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/15-cloisters-dissolved-what-remains-of.html?m=1
4. The SSPX will also consecrate one new bishop, from among their own candidates, with the approval of the Pope.
5. This pilot phase will run 3-5 years and then be evaluated by the Vatican, together with the Society and the diocesan bishop and his staff. Should the Pope be deceased or leave office during this trial period, the subsequent Pope will honor the terms of this agreement.
RCA Victor,
I don’t think that proposal would pass at all! It’s too demanding, IMHO.
I didn’t think the SSPX were asking to run a parish, just to be allowed to operate free from pressure to conform to Vatican II changes and the new Mass. Sorry to be a wet blanket but I doubt if that proposal would get accepted in the Vatican.
Margaret Mary,
I don’t either, I was just trying to think of a way that we could test the regularization without jumping in with both feet. Nor am I laboring under any illusions that the Society leadership would take my idea seriously, but…there you have it…and honestly, I don’t trust Francis as far as I could throw him!
RCA Victor,
I think you’ve hit on something there such as asking for a trial period, perhaps? That cuts out the jumping in with both feet and, on the other hand, making too many demands.
That is all eye-brow raising stuff. The article at the top by Christopher Ferrara and then the book giving the instructions on Jihad, all totally astonishing stuff.
I think we’re in for a rocky ride soon.
I remember a month or two ago seeing an ISIS propaganda video in which women were being trained to use the crossbow, and I thought then of the Fatima prophecy. I can’t find it again, but offer this. Scroll down through pictures.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4625867,00.html
Also, I see that the crossbow is being used in some atrocities in the US.
Mr. Ferrara actually mentioned this use of bows and arrows by ISIS about a year or 18 months ago, in a column he wrote for Fatima Perspectives. Meanwhile, the concluding article in the latest issue of The Fatima Crusader (Issue 116) deals with Islam and Fatima. Anyone seen it yet? It’s called “Murder in the Magic Kingdom,” and is not signed by anyone.
RCA Victor,
I’m amazed that I missed the article from 18 months ago, to which you refer. I had never heard about this stockpiling of arrows until a conversation after Mass last Wednesday, when it was mentioned. I found the Crusader article containing the extract from Chris Ferrara’s talk only after quite a bit of Googling, so I am now keen to read Issue No. 116 on Islam and Fatima. Top of my list of things to do now… well, second on the list after “catch up with beauty sleep”!
Editor,
Try this: http://www.fatimaperspectives.com/ts/perspective717.asp (almost exactly 18 months ago – am I good or what?) (Don’t answer that!)
RCA Victor,
That is exactly the same as the first part of the introduction above. Seems to have been quoted a number of times, and although I remember discussing the Muslim publication with the ISIS flag flying at the Vatican, I don’t recall any discussion about the exhortation to stockpile bows and arrows. Anyway, better late than never, we’re on to it!
I also read that article by Chris Ferrara about a year ago. I even saw pics of muslim women practicing archery.
I can’t believe you didn’t mention it. I would have had a thread going on it in a flash. Always keep Mother (Superior) informed… I can’t go about the place reading every Fatima article, now, can I?
And here’s the key question, Helen: did you make the connection between that article, those pics of the Muslim women practising archery and the mention of bows and arrows in the Third Secret?
Yes I did. I was always perplexed by the reference to “bows and arrows” in this day and age and when I read that article, the penny dropped. A thousand apologies for neglecting to inform you, Mother.
It is really chilling that the Islamist publications are talking about learning to use primitive weapons like bows and arrows and yes, there is definitely a connection with the Fatima Third Secret, namely that Our Lady has warned us of this terrorism, even naming the bows and arrows!
Yet there are still Catholics who are all but ignoring Fatima and going in for unapproved, even hoax apparitions instead of focusing on getting the Pope to consecrate Russia, as per the instructions given by Our Lady herself. What is wrong with these people?
Laura,
“Yet there are still Catholics who are all but ignoring Fatima and going in for unapproved, even hoax apparitions…” Yes, including Fr. Gabriel Amorth, RIP, who thought Medjugorje was authentic. When even the exorcist of the Diocese of Rome is fooled by the devil, you know the Church is in rough shape.
I think it was John Vennari who made the point in one of his articles a while back that it was no coincidence that Our Lady appeared at a place called Fatima. It has been recorded that the origin of the town’s Arabic name relates to an episode that occurred during the crusades against the Muslims, when a Christian knight by the name of Don Gonçalo Hermingues captured the daughter of the Muslim prince of Alcácer do Sal. Her name was Fátima. This princess, who converted to Christianity, was baptized with the name Oureana (the golden one) and married Gonçalo. It’s from her Baptismal name that the nearby village of Ourem received its name.
Although Islam hasn’t been specifically mentioned so far in the Fatima revelations, Our Lady may have referred to it in the unrevealed part of the Third Secret – we just don’t know. Interestingly, a book which I have just read called ‘Catholic Prophecy’ by Yves Dupont, which was published by TAN books in the 1970’s and is a selection of approved prophecies made at various times throughout the history of the Church, makes more than one reference to the Mohammedans invading and committing atrocities throughout Europe and the world.
I think we have to ask ourselves if it is at all feasible in this day and age for terrorists to attack a city with bows and arrows. Surely a single armed policeman could gun down about 20 assailants before they even managed to load one arrow into their makeshift weapons. And what is the liklihood of a rag-tag group of Islamic Jihadists attacking Vatican City knowing that the forces of all European countries will wipe them out in no time at all? No, the bows and arrows reference, as I have always maintained, has a mystical significance. It should not be interpreted literally IMHO. I think Sister Lucy dropped enough hints about the Third Secret to confirm that the punishment therein is supernatural, not military.
Besides this, the vision released by the Vatican in 2000 doesn’t make what I might call any geographic sense. Anyone who knows Vatican City knows that there is no steep hill just around the corner for the Pope to ascend. It just doesn’t make any sense. I’m not ruling out a war of some kind that may take out the Vatican and other European cities, forcing the Pope to finally make the consecration of Russia. But wars are dealt with in the Second Secret. The Third Secret is supernatural and much worse.
Athanasius,
I remember wondering several years ago if the “cork tree” in the Vision of the Bishop Dressed in White was a reference to Portugal, since that tree is indigenous to Portugal and is a major export – and that therefore the Vision’s tragic scene of mass execution might occur somewhere in Portugal. However, that would be yet another physical interpretation of the Vision.
To me, this whole thing has become like dream interpretation: no one really knows what dreams mean, whether they are subconscious reflections on daily events, pre-cognitive premonitions or just a bit of undigested beef – so I suppose you just have to make mental notes, put them on the back burner, pray for the Consecration, tend to your own spiritual garden, and wait…and, of course, discuss it on the CT blog to keep Editor’s paychecks coming…
(I just visited the EWTN website’s section on Fatima, and they have the sheer nerve and cowardice to quote Cardinal Bertone’s falsehoods as the centerpiece of their display.)
RCA Victor
Yes, without the accompanying text of Third Secret it’s pretty near impossible to figure out exactly what the meaning of the vision is. As you say, we just need to make mental notes and keep them on the back burner. It doesn’t pay to get too curious!
Athanasius,
When Sister Lucia wrote to Pope John Paul II she said that the Third Secret was a ‘symbolic revelation’ – “A terceira parte do segredo é uma revelação simbólica”
The Vatican released the original letter in her handwriting to remove any doubt she wrote this, but I think this comment of Sister Lucia refers to the vision, and not to the unreleased text, which would, of course, give meaning to the vision.
It could be ‘symbolic’ in the sense that the vision, referring as it does to a “group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows” at the Holy Father or “Bishop in white”, could refer to Islamic conquest – in a symbolic sense that Islam has always been involved in jihad from the beginning, first using weapons like arrows, now more sophisticated weapons like guns, and Islamic conquest always involves the loss of the true Faith, which is the supernatural tragedy.
Even in that newly-released revelation from Sister Lucia in the recent book from the Carmel of Coimbra, Sister Lucia still spoke of a “war” that was going to cause the chastisement:- ““I felt my spirit inundated by a mystery of light that is God and in Him I saw and heard: the point of a lance like a flame that is detached, touches the axis of the earth, and it trembles: mountains, cities, towns and villages with their inhabitants are buried. The sea, the rivers, the clouds, exceed their boundaries, inundating and dragging with them, in a vortex, houses and people in a number that cannot be counted. It is the purification of the world from the sin in which it is immersed. Hatred, ambition, provoke the destructive war. After I felt my racing heart, in my spirit a soft voice said: ‘In time, one faith, one baptism, one Church, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic. In eternity, Heaven!’ This word ‘Heaven’ filled my heart with peace and happiness in such a way that, almost without being aware of it, I kept repeating to myself for a long time: Heaven, Heaven.”
Westminster Fly,
“Islam has always been involved in jihad from the beginning, first using weapons like arrows, now more sophisticated weapons like guns, and Islamic conquest ”
The thing is, though, that Muslims today are telling the jihadists to stockpile primitive weapons like bows and arrows for use when they conquer on the European continent, in particular Rome is mentioned. Did you read page 23 of the book posted by Lily?
Athanasius,
So you don’t see any connection between the mention of bows and arrows in the Fatima prophecy and the stuff on page 23 of the Islamist book saying the Jihadists would have to use primitive weapons like bows and arrows in street warfare? After all, there are plenty of policeman on the streets of England and USA yet there have still be Islamist stabbings – the soldier in England and the people in the stabbings in USA the other day. An invasion of soldiers using bows and arrows would make their mark if you don’t mind the pun – LOL!
Yes, the important thing is the supernatural chastisement but there is also indications of punishment by war in the Fatima message, e.g. “many nations will be annihilated.” One doesn’t cancel out the other.
Re. The geography of Vatican City: http://vatican.com/articles/info/the_vatican_hill-a4127
Perplexed,
That’s interesting. I just looked at Wikipedia, and quoted that in my comment below. When I get myself to Rome, I will make a point of seeing Vatican Hill, LOL!
Perplexed
I was aware of the hills around Rome in general and Vatican City in particular, having holidayed there some seven or more times. The point I was attempting to make, though perhaps not very clearly, is that the closest hill upon which the Pope could be slaughtered by bow & arrow totting Islamic fanatics is still too far for them to reach before being mown down by 21st century military weaponry.
To be fair, Athanasius, and not to dismiss too lightly the theory that this part of the vision is not symbolic, it can be read as the Pope himself being attacked by bows and arrows – not necessarily as you appear to think, as in a wholesale attack on the streets of Rome: here’s the short extract where Pope, bullets and arrows are mentioned …
“…having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross [the Holy Father] was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him.”
I think the fact that the stockpiling of bows and arrows is explicitly encouraged in the Islamist literature, means that it cannot be discounted. They know, more than we do, the power of modern weaponry, and the police and military might which they will face in any attack which they launch (not that it’s stopped them to date!) but, still, they set out their reasons for collecting primitive weaponry in the book link posted above, and other literature cited by Christopher Ferrara, so I won’t repeat their rationale here.
Prior to that information from Islamist sources, I would have agreed with you that perhaps this part of the vision is purely or mostly symbolic, but now I’m not so sure. Our Lady speaks briefly and clearly in her apparitions, and doesn’t cause confusion. Certainly, the description of the Pope as he “passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way,” might well be a metaphor for the dire state of the Church/souls, but, equally, it might be a literal description, like the vision of Hell, as mentioned by Nicky, which was graphically described by the children. Cardinal Ratzinger did, if you recall, imply (more than imply, actually) at the 2000 Press Conference, that this description of Hell is likely to have come from pictures the children had seen, but that claim doesn’t stand up to examination. The Vatican would love to close the Fatima folder – as you know – and one of their methods to achieve “Fatima – The End” is to pass off as much of it as possible, as merely symbolic.
It strikes me as more than coincidental and more than “symbolic” that these primitive weapons are mentioned in the Third Secret vision, and then uncovered as being part of the strategy of the terrorists. As I suggested above, Our Lady doesn’t waste words (except at Medjugorje, of course, when she seems to never say two words when fifty will do!) So I don’t think we ought to discount the very real possibility that – as some of the Fatima scholars have opined over the years – Fatima itself was chosen because of its link with the Muslim princess of that name who converted to the Catholic Faith. That there may well be a strong link between the Message of Fatima and the rise of Islam in the 20th/21st centuries, is a very real, and interesting, if terrifying, possibility.
I’m sorry that you consider discussion of the possible interpretations of the Third Secret, in the absence of the text explaining the vision, to be fruitless. Personally, I welcome anything and everything that might help me to gain insights into the profound importance of the Fatima apparitions, so for me, personally, there has been, already, a lot of “fruit” from reading the comments on this thread, because I can see what YOU mean about the possibly symbolic only interpretation with your fear of worrying too much about the danger of war (albeit if only with bows and arrows!) but I think Nicky made very good points, too, notably his point about Our Lady not usually relying on symbolism, as when she allowed the children to see an actual vision of Hell.
So, in summary, I would say that this discussion, for me, at any rate, has been interesting, at times riveting, and thought-provoking but “fruitless”? Never!
On the other hand, I’m widely believe to be a fruitcake myself, so, maybe I’m not the best person to judge. Or, put another way, who am I to judge?…. 😀
Perplexed,
Where you bin? You need to check in here more often, my friend (I think…) You’re in danger of losing your Christmas bonus! Get thee to the Catholic Truth blog daily. Or else! * 😉
* Domchas/Chasdom, that’s not a real threat, just a joke, in case you’re tempted to threaten me with litigation again, Sugar Plum! 😀
Nicky
The “Many nations will be annihilated” line has been used generally by most Fatima commentators. However, as Brother Michael of the Trinity pointed out in his 3-volume work many years ago, Our Lady did not say “annihilated”. She said “Many nations will disappear”, and we know that under Communism many Eastern Block countries had their names changed and their Christian traditions expunged. So it seems things may not be as straightforward as they first appear.
Personally, I do not make any connection whatever between the bows and arrows mentioned in the Third Secret and page 23 of the book you refer to. I think it’s a red herring, not remotely feasible in this militarily advanced age and certainly not possible in terms of the unfolding scenes of the Third Secret Vision. It’s not a ‘hit & run’ scenario that unfolds in the Vision, such as in a terrorist attack. Rather, this is a series of events taking time to play out. Besides that, there is the hill the Pope has to climb before being killed and there’s the rough hewn cross, which again do not link this event geographically to the Vatican.
I think it is wrong to speculate in these matters, especially when the probable key to the mystery (the text) is still kept secret. My guess is the Third Secret is entirely supernatural in its content, just as Sister Lucy and others who have read it seem to indicate. It’s the apostasy in the Church, from the top down. Perhaps the bows and arrows represent heresies old and new coming together under Modernism “Synthesis of all heresies” to wound the Church and kill many souls. That’s my guess.
Athanasius,
I fail to see the difference between “annihilated” and “disappearing” – I can’t see any difference. A dictionary definition is “destroy utterly; obliterate.” As far as I can see, they are the same thing. If I annihilate something, it disappears! Changing a name doesn’t make something disappear. Any countries that had their names changed are still there.
I am surprised that you dismiss the reference to bows and arrows in the Third Secret, just because you are focused on modern military weapons but the Islamists make the point that they won’t have enough of them and in case that works out to be the case, they will have to engage in street battles, hence find primitive weapons that are not illegal. If you listen to discussions with military personnel in general, they also make the point that – barring a nuclear war – there will always be hand to hand battles in conventional wars. I don’t think Our Lady would have mentioned bows and arrows only in a symbolic sense – if she had been going to use symbols, surely she would have used a symbol of Hell and not subjected the children to the terror of a real vision of Hell? There’s no reason to presume that the vision part of the Third Secret is purely symbolic – in fact, I think that’s what the Vatican version is all about, wanting to make us think that, but I think it’s much more likely that the text not released refers to the spiritual crisis, yes, but also adding that if Russia is not consecrated then the consequences will be terrible, both spiritually and physically, in the Church (spiritually) and in the world (physically), as a result of warfare. We think of the Islamists as being a terror group but they are engaged in open war and they say so all the time. I think you underestimate the gravity of what we are facing by limiting your interpretation to the spiritual realm only, most important of all as that definitely is.
As for the hill – there is The Vatican Hill (Latin Collis Vaticanus) lying northwest of the Tiber, the Pincian Hill (Latin Mons Pincius), lying to the north, and the Janiculum Hill (Latin Ianiculum), lying to the west, which are not counted among the traditional Seven Hills (Wikipedia) but since Rome is built on seven hills, the attack shown in the Third Secret published vision, could be somewhere else.
I disagree that it’s wrong to speculate on these matters. Why is it wrong to speculate on this and not on other things? I think Our Lady will want us to do our best to spread all the possible interpretations of her Secret, given that the Pope and bishops are disobeying her by suppressing the whole Message. She came to warn us of what was to come, and that the cost of ignoring the full Fatima Message might bring us to the brink of war. She said that the Pope would consecrate Russia, but it would be late. Looking at the world right now, it is very late already.
Nicky
Well, I suppose we all have our own thoughts in these matters. I’ve never personally been one for idle speculation, preferring instead to formulate my opinions as much as possible on evidence. But that’s not to say that others are not free to speculate. When I said before that speculation was wrong I meant it was fruitless. There could be any number of intepretations of the Third Secret Vision. The fact is that without the accompanying text we will never know what is yet to come and how it will come.
I do not agree with you that “annihiltae” and “disappear” mean the same thing. They do not. The latter word can be applied inmany different ways without meaning annihilation. The former word, however, can mean only one thing. If Our Lady wanted to emphasise annihilation she wouldn’t have chosen a less expressive word. She said “disappear”.
When the sun disappears behind the moon, as in an eclipse, we don’t say that the sun has been annihilated. Similarly, when Our Lady appeared to the three children at Fatima, spoke to them and then disappeared, we didn’t think she had been annihilated. Disappeared can simply mean that a person or thing has been obscured from view, not necessarily annihilated.
It was in this context that I spoke to the disappearance of nations referred to by Our Lady. Russian satellite nations, once enslaved by the Communists, had their names erased together with their Christian heritage. In a sense, they disappeared as Christian nations. Again, though, this is speculation.
Athanasius,
And when a bride changes her name, she doesn’t disappear, even though it’s not long before her bridegroom wishes she would! 😀
Editor
Exactly!
I believe the hill in question is Monte Mario. It is not one of the seven hills of Rome but it is the highest and it has panoramic views of Rome. It is also covered in cork trees.
Father Gruner once made a video there (google: Gruner Monte Mario) and I am sure you will find it.
http://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/INAF+Osservatorio+Astronomico+di+Roma/@41.921825,12.4516967,3a,75y,62.36h,87.61t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1s-pq-kXIok0rc%2FVWd1MrpViyI%2FAAAAAAAAl5E%2Ficf336x125UetQbQLqiMaruhMEvZRnRdQ!2e4!3e11!6s%2F%2Flh6.googleusercontent.com%2F-pq-kXIok0rc%2FVWd1MrpViyI%2FAAAAAAAAl5E%2Ficf336x125UetQbQLqiMaruhMEvZRnRdQ%2Fw172-h86-n-k-no%2F!7i9600!8i4800!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x3bac62b8af33abda!8m2!3d41.9224278!4d12.4524692!5m1!1e4!6m1!1e1
John Salza has a very interesting discussion of the “Bishop Dressed in White” mystery, here: http://www.johnsalza.com/p/fatima.html (Article #2 towards the bottom, opens a PDF).
RCA Victor,
Thank you for that link. I’ve now read the entire article, and it is very interesting – although I’m disappointed that Salza uses the term “Pope Emeritus”. I’m surprised at that. The following footnote struck me as being of particular interest:
“While this author presumes the text of the Third Secret released by the Vatican is authentic, he also acknowledges the possibility that it may not be. After all, given the Vatican’s many and repeated deceptions concerning Fatima over the years (e.g., fake letters and phony interviews), issuing another fraudulent text would be consistent with its modus operandi. The vision’s ambiguity (“impressions,” “appearances,” “bishop in white”) is also distinguishable from the clarity of the first two parts of the Secret (vision of hell, ending of WWI, beginning of WWII, reign of “Pius XI”). Moreover, it is very odd that Lucia would say the Pope prayed for the souls of the “corpses” (Portuguese, cadáveres). In her prayers for those in Purgatory, the Church never uses the term “corpses” or “cadavers” to describe the dead. This is because such terminology is reserved for those beings without eternal souls (e.g., animals). It is inexplicable why Lucia would use such a foreign term which has no basis in Catholic tradition.”
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