Stats: The Cruel Cost of Vatican II

Stats: The Cruel Cost of Vatican II

keep-calm-its-only-statistics-1From the Rorate Caeli blog…

“[Earlier this week, we marked] the 54th anniversary of the opening of the Second Vatican Council. There’s really not much left to be written about this – all you need to know, frankly, is easily found by visiting a local parish. But it is a good opportunity to look at the numbers since the Council’s close in 1965. It’s also very interesting to look at them in comparison to Pope Venerable Pius XII, which we [also] provide…

As numbers don’t lie, the three charts [post-Vatican II]  show the undeniable slow death of the Church. It also shows the so-called “Francis Effect” has had zero effect on Sunday Mass attendance. 

[Then we have]  a glimpse of what the Church was. The numbers of Pius XII, the pontiff preceding the Council, are [below the post-Vatican II charts].  And they are equally as staggering in a good way as the post-Council numbers are devastatingly bad.”

Click here to check out the stats for yourself  and then tell us if you think Vatican II was about the worst idea any pope ever had, in the entire history of Christendom. Recommended answer: “yes”!   

Comments (30)

  • editor

    Blogger, Gabriel Syme kindly alerted me to the above Rorate Caeli statistics; he sent me the link a few days ago but this is the first chance I’ve had to post it here. The stats are so stark that I think they deserve a dedicated thread, so brace yourself – as Gabriel Syme noted in his email to me, although these particular stats refer to the USA they are undoubtedly mirrored over here.

    October 14, 2016 at 12:40 am
  • Prognosticum

    These stats come as no surprise to me.

    As a German prelate said to me many years ago, it is a principle of advertising theory that there has to be clarity of brand. It is precisely a lack of clarity of brand that is at the basis of the post-Vatican II debacle.

    Have you ever stopped to think that there is now practically nothing which unites us to the pre-Vatican II generations. Liturgy, belief, practice … there is no aspect of the Church’s life that has not been altered. And why? To accommodate modernity instead of striving to evangelize it.

    The Church, or, more accuately, the liberal element within her, wishes in its conceit to be all things to all men. Hence communion to those living in a state of objective sin, ecumenism understood as a synchretistic unity of diverging traditions, inter-religious dialogue prosecuted on the basis that all religions are more or less equal, and all of this driven forward while paying lip service to traditional teaching.

    A recent example of this? The Pope’s gift of a crozier to the Archbishop of canterbury. Francis no more believes in Apostolicae Curae than I believe in Father Christmas. But he cannot say so because ipso facto he would no longer be Pope. So the gift of a crozier to affirm his this layman’s episcopal dignity. And it is not just Fracis. John Paul II engaged in similar stunts from time to time, but he at least believed in Apostolicae Curae.

    Pope Francis has often skown himself to be woefully ignorant of Scripture, but he and his fellow liberals should meditate on the following passage: “But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil” (Matthew 5:37).

    October 14, 2016 at 7:59 am
    • editor


      Well said. This paragraph echoes what we have been saying for years – that what we now have, is a brand new religion:

      “Have you ever stopped to think that there is now practically nothing which unites us to the pre-Vatican II generations. Liturgy, belief, practice … there is no aspect of the Church’s life that has not been altered. And why? To accommodate modernity instead of striving to evangelize it.”

      Yes, I’ve often stopped to think that and say that and write that but still we get a majority of Catholics – lay and ordained – telling us that it’s the same Church, same Mass etc. just modernised for the purpose of evangelising – and now they’re thrown because the Pope is telling us NOT to evangelise, not to seek converts. Diabolical disorientation, writ large.

      October 14, 2016 at 10:00 am
      • Prognosticum

        For a long time I thought like the majority you describe, although there was always a part of me–I like to think the better part–which refused to be convinced that these changes were to the good.

        October 14, 2016 at 7:35 pm
      • editor


        I wouldn’t worry about that – sadly, most of us went along, to a greater or lesser extent, with the changes, trying to rationalise the situation as best we could. And I can relate completely to your “better part” experience – an uneasy feeling that somehow this is all not quite right. I used to get that feeling at Mass, looking around and listening and remembering that Mass was entirely different in my youth. It was a disorienting experience and it took a long time to realise that my gut feeling was, in fact, a sound Catholic sense which had never quite left me, thanks to the great grace and mercy of God.

        October 15, 2016 at 12:17 am
  • RCA Victor

    Bella Dodd warned, in the early 1950s, that “in a few years you will not recognize the Catholic Church.” She was no prophet, merely a legal functionary in the Communist Party USA who was well aware of the Communist infiltration of the Church, and probably had a hand in it as well.

    Yet, hope comes in dribs and drabs, from individual to individual. Wednesday I was sitting in my coffee shop with my reading material stacked on the table, when a woman came in with her young son. I soon noticed her looking intently at the top book on my pile: Salza and Siscoe’s True or False Pope? When she had finished purchasing her coffee, she asked me about it. Turns out she has a friend who is a staunch sedevacantist, so I recommended the book highly to her. The conversation continued about the medals I was wearing and Tradition, whereupon I invited her to our SSPX chapel. I probably should have invited her to come back to the coffee shop with her sedevacantist friend, but unlike Editor, my mental acuity was on vacation at the time.

    No idea if she will follow up, but I’d say there exists an indeterminate number of faithful trapped in this new, bogus “religion” who don’t know where to turn or how to get out, and who recognize the emptiness of it. As those statistics point out, the emptiness is more than spiritual and moral…

    October 14, 2016 at 4:51 pm
    • editor

      RCA Victor,

      Just tell me this, this one, all important thing, only this and I will sleep like a baby….

      Was the latest Catholic Truth newsletter among (at the top of) your “reading material stacked on the table?”

      October 15, 2016 at 12:10 am
      • RCA Victor


        It would have been had I printed it out! But I must have some Scottish blood in me, because I save it on my computer instead of printing. Saves paper and ink, you know….

        October 15, 2016 at 1:07 am
      • editor

        Oh yes, RCA Victor, I forgot that you are one of those good souls who opted to transfer to the e-mailing list some time ago. All is forgiven!

        Let us know if the lady whom you so zealously sought to educate, follows through with your suggestions.

        October 15, 2016 at 11:56 am
  • gabriel syme

    The statistics are very stark and telling.

    It is amazing that the hierarchy do not seem to react in the face of them and recognise the damaging trajectory of the Church these past decades.

    Indeed, the decline only seems to fuel further damage, as the response is to claim that (further) innovation and nonsense is the answer. In fact it is the innovation and nonsense which has failed, not Catholicism.

    The situation is definitely indicative of the disorientation in the Church right now. Any competent body / organisation would recognise what such statistics represent.

    Sad to think most Catholics today would not recognise authentic Catholicism if it bit them on the backside.

    I am fortunate to have discovered the authentic faith (with a little help my friends – OK, a lot of help! haha!) and it is light years away from the junk fed to kids being “formed” (ha!) in the faith today.

    I am cautiously optimistic however, as if you hit rock bottom, the effect is often to bounce back up a bit. However, this remains to be seen.

    October 15, 2016 at 12:33 am
    • editor

      Gabriel Syme,

      Given that no matter what is said by this pope or anyone else, that is manifestly contrary to the Faith, and given that, as you note, the stark statistics proving the decline post-Vatican II only serve to make the hierarchy redouble their “innovation and nonsense”, I think that the “bounce back” will only come after the Consecration of Russia. In other words, once there is some major event that proves to the Pope of the day that there is no option but to consecrate Russia. Our Lady did say that Russia would be consecrated but that it would be late. Well, how much “later” can it be, now, with the Church, humanly speaking, all but finished.

      October 15, 2016 at 12:00 pm
      • Lily

        I totally agree – only the Consecration of Russia will bring the hierarchy to their senses. Nothing else will end this crisis IMHO.

        October 15, 2016 at 1:05 pm
  • editor

    Here is the latest shocker from the Vatican/Pope Francis. It seems that the decline in the Church in every aspect of its life, is not an issue for this terrible pontiff. He tells the “Lutheran pilgrims”: “The Apostle Paul tells us that, by virtue of our baptism, we all form the one Body of Christ…”

    Notice he is standing beside a statue of Martin Luther – there have been plenty of jokes/sarcastic commentary about Luther being canonised but I, for one, wouldn’t be surprised if it came to pass – the suggestion I mean. Surely, there must be somebody in the Vatican who would object? No? Oh well…

    October 15, 2016 at 1:01 pm
    • Frankier


      Martin Luther canonised?

      Are you sure it’s not cartoonised, or even anodised?

      October 15, 2016 at 2:13 pm
      • editor


        If only! Let’s hope and pray that he’s not canonised. That would be a sign of progress!

        October 15, 2016 at 11:31 pm
  • editor


    Earlier this evening, I released a comment from you which had gone into hiding in one of my admin folders. I released it quickly without either reading it properly or checking the thread. Now, I cannot find it. I’d appreciate it if you would locate it and then “reply” to it (!) because that will restore it on the sidebar. We can, then, all read it and respond.

    October 16, 2016 at 12:21 am
  • Therese

    I wondered what had happened to it Editor, as I posted it twice. It’s from Torch of the Faith, in case it doesn’t get through again:

    Events, My Dear Boy, Events…

    A few days ago, the mainstream media kept the masses looking firmly the other way, whilst the latest Wikileaks data dump was revealing a shocking series of e-mails from Hillary Clinton’s political campaign.

    Among them was an e-mail from former Clinton administration official Bill Ivey to campaign chairman John Podesta, which spoke about the ”need” to maintain political power by producing ”an unaware and compliant citizenry”.

    That most people are still unaware of this news demonstrates just how successful they have been!

    Of course, that has been the case for a long time in a secularist culture with dumbed-down education, entertainment and media systems.

    Not that you would notice in the MSM, but the latest batch of released Wikileaks e-mails have also impacted greatly on the Catholic Church.

    In varying degrees of discomforture, many ”mainstream” Catholic sites have by now responded to the news that Hillary Clinton’s campaign communications director Jennifer Palmieri and Center for American Progress fellow, John Halpin, had mocked ”conservative” Catholicism as an ”amazing bastardization of the faith”.

    More troubling was the confirmation of the worst-kept secret regarding the infiltration of the Catholic Church.

    This is no news to anyone who has read up on their Bella Dodd, Alice von Hildebrand or Ion Mihai Pacepa. We have dealt with this issue a few times here, particularly in a series of articles last year entitled And Russia Will Spread Her Errors. Nevertheless, the latest news has a particularly disturbing quality given the state of the Church and the Geo-political situation throughout the world in these days.

    I am referring, of course, to the revelation of the dire exchange of e-mails from 2012, between the above-mentioned campaign chairman John Podesta and Sandy Newman, the President of Voices for Progress.

    In case there is anyone who has still not read up about this exchange, Newman had asked Podesta whether a so-called ”Catholic Spring” could be engineered to draw some of the 98% of US Catholic women who break the Church’s teaching on contraception (!) into a resistance movement against the US Bishops, who were then fighting against the contraceptive coverage of the HHS Mandate.

    Obianuju Ekeocha, the dynamic foundress of Culture of Life Africa, has tweeted a splendid response to this situation: ”Are you Catholic? Are you part of Podesta’s 98%? An atheist has recognized you as a trigger for revolution against the Church and the Gospel”.

    Thought provoking, isn’t it?
    Anyway, the supposedly Catholic Podesta (!) had replied to Newman as follows: ”We created Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good to organize for a moment like this. But I think it lacks the leadership to do so now. Likewise Catholics United. Like most Spring movements, I think this one will have to be bottom up.”

    As Steve Skojec reflects over at 1 Peter 5, this is a text-book example of Alinskyian Trojan Horse tactics. It certainly calls to our minds the tactics revealed by the late Bella Dodd in her writings and speeches about Communist infiltration of the Church and State.

    Even as I type this, various outlets are now reporting that RAF pilots have been ordered to shoot down ”hostile” Russian fighter jets over Syria.

    Not exactly the Battle of Britain is it?

    Then again, a Russian general made a similar threat to US fighter aircraft in the region last week.

    All of the above is written by way of highlighting the apocalyptic nature of the times through which we are presently living. They also serve as an up-to-the-minute introduction to the concluding section of this article as it regards the significance of October 13th in Salvation History.

    What follows is pretty much a re-blog of what we posted up this time last year. In light of all that is happening in the Church and world, I wouldn’t put that Rosary down yet…

    October 13th and the Battle for the Church
    Christopher Ferrara has frequently drawn attention to the historical importance of the date of October 13th in recent Church history.


    It was on that date, in 1917, when a crowd of 70,000 witnesses, including a number of atheistic reporters from secularist newspapers, witnessed the Miracle of the Sun. It will be remembered that this miracle had been promised by Our Lady beforehand. The fulfillment of this promised miracle before so many witnesses marks Fatima out as a truly historical series of supernatural events. They ought not to be dismissed by anyone, whether presently Catholic or not.

    So beautiful, though also terrifying, was the Miracle of the Sun that many fallen-away Catholics repented and returned to the Sacraments of the Holy Church on that very day.

    Perhaps too few have considered the symbolism contained in that historical miracle. We would all do well to reflect on the fact that the descent of the Sun on the massive crowd calls to mind the punishment of fire from Heaven which befell Sodom and Gomorrah.


    In this context let us not forget, either, that Our Lady of Akita gave the following explicit warning to Sister Agnes Sasagawa: ”As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as has never been seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by my Son. Each day, recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and the priests.”
    An important part of the Akita message, relating to events preceding the punishment by fire, warns: ”The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned by their confreres… churches and altars will be sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.”

    Sadly, we have all lived to see such things happening in the Church. The Rome Synods of ’14 and ’15 were punctuated, if not dominated, by them. More recently, at the end of September 2016, two ”former” nuns have attempted to ”marry” each other, with an ”ex”-priest officiating at a civil ”ceremony” in the Italian town of Pinerolo.

    And what was the date that this prophecy was given in Akita? October 13th, 1973.

    Rome – Vatican II

    Christopher Ferrara has also drawn attention to the fact that the 13th October, 1962, was the date on which Cardinal Achille Leinhart seized the microphone, out of order, and derailed the Second Vatican Council’s preparatory documents with his revolutionary demands. Drawing on Professor Romano Amerio’s classical study Iota Unum, Ferrara notes that the Church is still living with the consequences of that derailment to this day.

    Rome – Synods ’14 and ’15

    Indeed, much closer to our own times, the 13th October has turned out to be a very significant date for the Church.

    On that date in 2014, the disgraceful mid-term report was manipulated, pushed through and released to the world’s media – without having been so much as seen by the bishops gathered for that autumn’s Extraordinary Synod. As Bishop Schneider said at the time, and Christopher Ferrara recalled later: ”This is the first time in Church history that such a heterodox text was actually published as a document of an official meeting of Catholic bishops under the guidance of a pope…” Of course, the release of the document became the watershed for a resistance led by Cardinal George Pell of Australia against the so-obvious behind-the-scenes manipulations.

    In the distressing build up to Synod ’15, Christopher Ferrara had thus wondered aloud what might be the significance of October 13th that year.

    Although few seemed to spot it at the time, we did observe here at Torch of The Faith that this was the date on which the news broke, in the German Die Tagespost, that Pope Francis had been hosting a kind of miniature ”Shadow Synod” each day with some specially chosen members of the Synod proper, and some undisclosed outsiders, in the Domus Sanctae Marthae…

    Rome – Pope Leo XIII

    There is one source which claims that October 13th was also the date on which Pope Leo XIII had his terrifying experience of the devil demanding a period of 100 years to try and destroy the Catholic Church. Whatever the veracity of that source, it remains the case that Fatima, and the 13th day of October, have been extremely significant in the ongoing battle between Christ’s True Church and the false anti-church of Antichrist.

    At the beginning of the present stage of the battle, the importance of Fatima was again highlighted when it was announced in 2013 that Pope Francis was to consecrate his entire papacy to Our Lady of Fatima. This is an important detail, and source of ultimate hope, that should not be forgotten by any of us in these dark times.

    What Must We Do?

    Yes, these certainly are grave times. October 13th, 2016, marks the 99th anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima. At the end of this month, within weeks of the beginning of the 100th year since the occurrence of this apocalyptic event, Pope Francis plans to travel to Lund to ”commemorate” the condemned heretic Martin Luther.

    Luther, the troubled monk who was condemned by a Church Council, disparaged the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, sacrileged his vows by attempting marriage with a nun, split countless souls from the Church, helped to sunder European Christendom, and paved the way for the secularized post-Christian anti-culture that we have all around us today.

    This planned visit, and the mysterious silence of the world’s cardinals and bishops on the matter, is nothing short of apocalyptic.

    What can we do as lowly members of the faithful?

    We must all stop offending God, sincerely repent of our sins, receive God’s forgiveness, grace and strength in the Sacraments, honour the First Saturdays and pray the Rosary every single day.

    We have all heard the warnings of Our Lady at Fatima and Akita. Now let us heed them!

    Our Lady of Fatima and Akita – Pray for us!

    October 16, 2016 at 11:04 am
    • Valour

      I believe many question the authenticity of Akita.

      October 16, 2016 at 4:30 pm
      • Laura


        That’s right. This article was published either on this blog or in the newsletter – that’s where I discovered the truth about Akita, and was very disappointed. I no longer believe them to be true.

        October 16, 2016 at 5:58 pm
      • Valour


        My reply was to Therese who cites Akita to prove some claim or other.

        October 16, 2016 at 7:35 pm
      • Therese


        1. I didn’t cite Akita to prove any claim.
        2. Is that the only point you have to make about the article which I posted, which, I will state again, is from Torch of the Faith?

        October 16, 2016 at 9:21 pm
  • Therese

    I’ve tried to post again, Editor, but no luck. However, if you click on the Torch of the Faith blog

    you will find two postings re Fatima which are very interesting.

    October 16, 2016 at 11:06 am
    • editor


      I found your post in one of my admin folders, but I recognise it from the Fatima thread – I think you posted it there?

      October 16, 2016 at 3:26 pm
      • Therese


        Colour me confused. I posted the above twice yesterday, but they didn’t appear, so I gave up. Then, when I saw your post today, on this thread, I re-posted. Yet again, it didn’t appear, so I gave the link. Now its appeared.

        I’m suddenly feeling very frail and Ingrid Bergmanish. Please don’t turn down the gaslight tonight….

        October 16, 2016 at 9:26 pm
      • Lily


        “I’m suddenly feeling very frail and Ingrid Bergmanish. Please don’t turn down the gaslight tonight….”

        I know that feeling! LOL!

        October 16, 2016 at 11:26 pm
      • editor


        If you recall, I’ve explained a few times recently, with apologies, that comments are disappearing into one or other of my admin folders. It’s happened so often for weeks and weeks now, that I routinely check folders I once never or seldom visited. I check the (don’t take offence, folks) “Trash” folder regularly because that’s where most of your comments end up, if they disappear when you press the “Post Comment” button. . I can’t explain it, but I’ve been onto WordPress today and they are looking into it.

        It’s a real pain because it means that if I’m not near my computer, comments have to languish there until my return. This week is intense “get the newsletter finished and off to the printers” week, so I will be around most of the time. Hopefully, anyway, the problem will be resolved very soon.

        Let’s put this into the hands of St Gabriel, patron saint of communications!

        October 17, 2016 at 12:33 am
  • Gerontius

    Here’s the latest Francyism.

    Referring to Luther, Pope Bergoglio said: The Church’s greatest reformers are the saints, in other words the men and women who follow the Word of the Lord and practice it. This is the path we need to take, this is what reforms the church and they are great reformers. They may not be theologians, they may not have studied, they may be humble, but these peoples souls are steeped in the Gospel… they are the ones who successfully reform the Church. Both in the Lutheran and Catholic Churches there are saints, men and women with a holy heart who follow the Gospel: they are the Church’s reformers.

    Did you get that?

    Both in the Lutheran and Catholic Churches there are saints, men and women with a holy heart who follow the Gospel: they are the Church’s reformers. REALLY?????



    Oh, and by the way, for anyone who may nor know, Modernism is a formally condemned heresy and those who defend it, promote it or praise it, are Latae sententiae excommunicated heretics. See PRAESTANTIA SCRIPTURAE. Motu proprio of Our Most Holy Lord Pius X, by Divine Providence Pope.

    October 17, 2016 at 8:10 pm
    • Gerontius

      According to Vatican News Service, a common declaration has been issued bearing the signatures of both “HIS GRACE JUSTIN WELBY” and “HIS HOLINESS FRANCIS” proposing to send “out on mission together 19 pairs of Anglican and Catholic bishops from countries around the world.

      Odd!…. Didn’t Pope Francis say that:

      (1) “Proselytism is the strongest venom against the path of ecumenism”

      (2) “Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense.”

      (3) “There is a very grave sin against ecumenism: proselytism. We should never
      proselytize the Orthodox!”

      A sin against “ecumenism”? How can an utter novelty unknown in the life of the Church before 1962, emerging from a Protestant movement condemned by Pius XI in 1928, now be treated as if it were an article of divine and Catholic faith? Such is the crisis the Church now endures, the likes of which she has never witnessed before.

      Our Lord said:
      All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. 19Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.
      The Great Commission(Mark 16:18-20)

      That’s why the Latin phrase extra Ecclesiam nulla salus means: “outside the Church there is no salvation”

      Thanks be to God for the S.S.P.X. where there is: No surrender – No retreat – No compromise.
      Deo Gratias.

      October 21, 2016 at 6:22 pm
      • Athanasius


        Two excellent posts that cannot be argued with. Well stated indeed!

        October 21, 2016 at 10:22 pm
      • Gerontius

        Many thanks for a very kind reply.

        October 21, 2016 at 10:34 pm

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