Is Medjugorje – The Devil’s Answer To Fatima – About To Be Approved?editor
“I think it’s possible to recognize the authenticity of the first [seven] apparitions as proposed by the Ruini commission,” [Archbishop Henryk] Hoser said. “Besides, it is difficult to get another verdict, because it’s difficult to believe that six seers will lie for 36 years. What they say has been consistent. They are not mentally incompetent. A strong argument for the authenticity of the apparitions is their faithfulness to the doctrine of the Church.” Click here to read the entire report.
Fidelity to the doctrine of the Church? You kidding? The “Lady of Medjugorje”, the “Gospa” incites to disobedience – that’s a first. Read more here and reflect: on every occasion when Our Lady has appeared in private apparitions, when the priest or bishop has been sceptical and initially refused to entertain the apparitions as true, as in Lourdes, for example, Our Lady has exhorted the seer to obedience – never disobedience.
The alleged seers are also known to have a loose relationship with the truth: Dr. Gagliardi: “We could not ascertain the sincerity of the seers, but on the synchronicity of the ecstasies they were lying”
Finally, click here to read the Facts and Documents about Medjugorje and then tell us your thoughts. Remember, in normal times the Bishop’s decision on private revelations is all that is required by the Church in judging their authenticity. The Vatican Commission was established because the “seers” refuse to accept the Bishop’s authoritative decision that nothing supernatural is taking place in Medjugorje.
So, given the widespread diabolical disorientation in the Church today, which means that the Vatican as it should be operating is AWOL, and that Pope Francis is the worst ever pontiff in the history of the Church, IS the final slap in the face to Our Lady of Fatima, in this centenary year, to be the approval of this self-evident hoaxers’ paradise – Medjugorje?
I don’t know enough about these seers and their visions of Our Lady except this: Saint Bernadette came from a poverty stricken family and even on her deathbed said that the healing water was not for her. She made NOTHING financially nor did her family from Lourdes. On the opposite side these so called visionaries are doing not badly, in fact they’re doing exceptionally well financially. Our Lady of Guadalupe appeared to a poverty stricken peasant also. We could go on and on about visions etc but one thing seems in common. The Blessed ones who received them did not win the Lottery at the same time .
Faith of our Fathers,
I’ve thought that from the start of these visions, i.e. if the people claiming the visions are making money on it hand over fist as they are, then it’s just not true.
FOOF & Laura,
The money-spinning part of the whole phenomenon is crucial in determining that it is nothing more than a hoax. Absent the money-spinning, we could surmise that the “seers” may be misguide, albeit perhaps well-intentioned, but the way they have made money, and that, apparently, shamelessly, rules out the “misguided” label.
Faith of our Fathers,
Making money out of these “visions” was the first thing that proved to me that they were not genuine. Then I found out that they had blatantly lied to the bishop and were caught on tape lying, so I know that they just can’t be true.
I don’t know how anyone with an ounce of intelligence could believe this hoax. There are too many inconsistencies and ridiculous messages to even begin.
I was always struck that one of the “seers” entered seminary – but then left. Apparently Our Lady told him She didn’t want him to become a priest! I couldn’t ever imagine Our Lady telling anyone that.
I think that, too. How could anyone with any intelligence at all believe this hoax. It’s so obvious.
I found something disturbing on the website Facts and Documents up above, about people disappearing and being found dead on that Hill of Apparitions. It’s not something I’ve ever heard before, and if true, it’s scary.
BTW, I do think Medjugorje is the Devil’s answer to Fatima – definitely. It is diverting people who would otherwise work to spread the Fatima Message, into concentrating on this nonsense. It would be just terrible if it was given the stamp of approval by the Vatican, even though there would be no bind on anyone to believe it. The fanatics would be over the moon and would never let us forget that it was “approved”.
It really is a puzzle trying to work out how anyone of average intelligence would fall for this nonsense. Moi, with moi’s giant brain could see through it right away…
“I think it’s possible to recognize the authenticity of the first [seven] apparitions as proposed by the Ruini commission,” [Archbishop Henryk] Hoser said. “Besides, it is difficult to get another verdict, because it’s difficult to believe that six seers will lie for 36 years.
They lied for 36 years because they had to perpetuate the lies they told right at the start. The Local Ordinary, during his initial investigation of the apparitions, confirmed that the so-called seers lied during their testimony to him, that’s why he immediately knew that these visions were not of a supernatural nature, certainly not a Godly one anyway.
Since then Medjugorje has engendered religious disobedience on the part of some Franciscans, made great amounts of cash for at least one of the “seers”, who is pictured somewhere standing next to his sports car, and made the others rich in admiration as they swan amidst thousands of pilgrims allowing themselves to be touched as though they were walking saints, etc. The entire business is a fake, condemned three times by local bishops and a Bishops’ Conference. These are the Churchmen who have the authority, not some Polish import who wants to stir the pot. This would never have happened with any of the other Popes. Even John Paul II wouldn’t go near the place when he visited the former Yugoslavia.
I remember a saint (can’t recall which saint) saying that if a so-called apparition is 99.9% Catholic and only 0.1% heterodox then it’s from Hell. But what this ties in with right now is Pope Francis’ talking up of the disastrous New Mass and the even more disastrous Conciliar reform. Medjugorje is being pushed by Modernists because it supports the ecumenical heresy. That’s what this is really all about. The Church prior to Vatican II would have utterly condemned the falsehood of Medjugorje years ago. Sadly, religious sanity went out of the windows when they were opened at Vatican II “to let in some fresh air”.
As one author, writing about these Medjugorje lies put it, “if you’re going to tell a lie, the big ones are always best” (words to that effect). How true… er…. so to speak!
Your “percentage” comment hits a key nail on the head; if there is anything unorthodox put into the mouth of Our Lady by an alleged seers, then we know it didn’t happen. End of discussion.
“A strong argument for the authenticity of the apparitions is their faithfulness to the doctrine of the Church.”
Since when has anyone in Francis’ regime had any regard for, or fidelity to the doctrine of the Church? Rather, they have to man sought to destroy it. That is the one consistent thread in this entire hoax: fidelity to a series of lies designed to undermine the Church and turn people away from Fatima.
“That is the one consistent thread in this entire hoax: fidelity to a series of lies designed to undermine the Church and turn people away from Fatima.”
Got it in one! Spot on! Well said etc., etc., etc….
It should come as no surprise to you, RCA my friend, that I agree with every word 😀
I went to Medjugorje in the 1980’s. And I went with good Catholic people who believed in the apparitions. There were many good sound priests there from across the world. Looking back I remember the visionaries appearing as celebrities for the adulation of the crowds. I was puzzled by this since although they were meeting Mary every day they did not seem to have anything to say. Why bother, I thought. But there was much good going on, the love and adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, priests ready to hear confession at any time of the day, real good orthodox sermons. Then I met an interlocutionist; she did not see Mary, but Mary spoke to her. But there were Catholics running around and taking all of this in.
But this is what we have to understand, that souls were being converted, and indeed I know a young man who is now a priest through his visits to Medjugorje. The Bishop of Mostar who was there at the time of the apparitions admitted this but pointed out that this was the work of the many priests who had come and the natural workings of the Church – not because of the visions.
The final thing that brought against Medjugorje was the visit of a Fr Joso to the UK. He had his faculties withdrawn by the bishop of Mostar yet although he did not say Mass in a Church he did so in a school and indeed taught and preached throughout his tour of the world. He was eventually banned in the Immaculate Conception Cathedral in Washington who explained that his faculties were removed. This Fr Joso was the priest whom the visionaries first came to with their story.
Today, I am trying desperately to get the Fatima message over, for we now have the centenary of the six appearances of Our Lady, but still they want [to talk] totally about Medjugorje, and somehow convince themselves that Medjugorje is a continuation of Fatima. What can I say to them which will convince them that maybe they are wrong and they should [not] read the messages. I really do believe that the Devil is behind these apparitions and as someone once said, detracting from the real messages of Our Lady [of Fatima] and even imitating the movement of the sun at Medjugorje.
I am at loss.
Those who claim that Medjugorje is a continuation of Fatima need to place the evidence before us. There is none. That would be my first challenge to those who make this unsubstantiated claim.
Then, I would add that as things stand the requests made by Our Lady of Fatima for the Consecration of Russia and the full disclosure of the Third Secret, remain unfulfilled. And yet, there is no mention of these key Fatima issues in the Medjugorje “messages”. How, therefore, can Medjugorje be a “continuation” of Fatima? It makes no sense.
And all of the above is quite apart from the fact that there is bountiful evidence that Medjugorje is a diabolical phenomenon. It does not come from God.
The content of the alleged “messages” which conveyed the false “madonna” is completely oriented in the direction of “the great universal brotherhood” advocated by the lodges… Even the “gospa” plays “the great brotherhood” by letting fully excited pilgrims jostle her!… What a vulgarity!
If these so-called “messages” and “strange behaviour” proved true, frankly, it would be unworthy of the Blessed Virgin Mary Immaculate who is at the [centre] of all this fuss…
Moreover, it is absolutely unthinkable that the Holy Virgin, the true One, might be a “factor of division into the Church” by urging the clergy and faithful to disobey the Ordinary and to revolt against him. This argument is, in my opinion, the most determinant to expose this sham.
I find it insulting to Our Lady that they dare consider that She can behave in a manner as ordinary and absurd.
You make a very important point when you argue that Our Lady would never urge the clergy and faithful to disobey the local bishop. Never. That is one of the very basic, key pieces of evidence against the veracity of these [non] apparitions.
I do not understand that one continues to support, as if nothing had happened, a phenomenon several times formally condemned by the bishop of Mostar-Duvno, the local Ordinary being fully empowered to give a decision, as it is traditional in the Church for all « apparitions ». The bishop of the diocese is quite competent in this area, if only because of his proximity to the events.
It is, truly, the Devil. I have lost count of the number of Medjugorje fans who have expressed surprise when I point out that the successive local Bishops of Mostar have condemned the apparitions as false, and been met with words to the effect “but you criticise the bishops, you know that they are not doing the right thing” etc. Ergo, the fact that the bishop(s) don’t approve of Medjugorje, is just one more sign that they are off the rails.
To which I reply that our criticism of the bishops is for their FAILURE to properly exercise their episcopal office, for not scrutinising the rubbish that is published and sold in their dioceses, for failing to ensure sound teaching in Catholic schools, for buying into the new Mass, new everything. But when we find a bishop who is doing his duty then we are pleased. We don’t criticise for the sake of it. In this case, we value the fact that the local bishop(s) of Mostar have scrutinised these claims of apparitions and have honestly evaluated the evidence, finding lies and other proof that these “apparitions”, if they exist at all, do not come from God but from the Devil.
Why they can’t see that,beats me, Lionel. Spiritual blindness, however, is a hallmark of the current crisis in the Church, so we can’t be too surprised that the same people who will attend the novus ordo and pray the “Luminous Mysteries” are the same people who think the bishops have gotten it wrong about Medjugorje. Confusion into chaos.
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them” (John 12:40).
Below is the testimony of a French soldier stationed in Mostar:
Martial Dufau says:
April 29th, 2010
I went through twice, in Medjugorje, in the aftermath of the Bosnian war (I was a military stationed in Mostar). I did not find the fervour met in Lourdes; on the other side, I felt an unpleasant sensation in finding that the « merchants of the temple » (also present in Lourdes!) had invested too quickly at the scene. I never believed in these messages distributed daily, which seemed to suit everyone and anyone, in the style of « horoscope ». I met some French excited by « the Virgin of Peace ». They had, moreover, only this word (“peace”) to the mouth. They were the mystico-dingoes style, without any deduction of faith and fervour. I visited places that do not grow to prayer (a 4 or 5m picture of Christ is presented without the cross!) neither to meditation unlike many Marian sites I visited. I have never been attracted to Medjugorje. I went there as a tourist when I go to Lourdes as a pilgrim imploring Our Lady.
This is the first time that I witness in this way on Medjugorje. Why?
I came quite by chance on this site. Is it because of Providence?
But I know that I ask, every day, to the Blessed Virgin to protect me from the harmful and very dangerous influences of the websites.
That is a very interesting comment from the French soldier. Where was it posted? Was it on a Medjugorje site? I’m wondering if those are the websites he is praying to Our Lady to be protected from. Do you know?
He was a distinguished gentleman, certainly from the South of France, stationed in Mostar probably within the framework of the United Nations Organisation.
The site on which his testimony was posted is :
Les dernières informations catholiques.
The original version of his commentary is as it follows:
“Martial Dufau says:
April 29th, 2010 1:20 pm
Je me suis rendu, par deux fois, à Medjugorje, au lendemain de la guerre de Bosnie (j’étais en poste militaire à Mostar). Je n’y ai pas trouvé la ferveur rencontrée à Lourdes, par contre, j’ai ressenti une impression désagréable en constatant que les “marchands du temple” (présents aussi à Lourdes!) avaient investi aussi rapidement les lieux. Je n’ai jamais cru à ces messages distribués journellement, qui semblaient convenir à chacun et à personne, dans le style “horoscope”. J’ai rencontré des français tout excités par “la vierge de la paix”. Ils n’avaient d’ailleurs que ce mot (“paix”) à la bouche. Ils étaient du style mystico-dingos, sans aucune retenue de foi ni de ferveur. J’ai visité les lieux qui ne poussent pas à la prière (un Christ de 4 ou 5m est présenté sans sa croix!) ni au recueillement contrairement aux nombreux sites mariaux que j’ai visités. Je n’ai jamais été attiré par Medjugorge. Je m’y rendais en simple touriste alors qu’à Lourdes j’y vais en pélerin implorer Notre-Dame.
C’est la première fois que je témoigne de la sorte sur Medjugorge. Pourquoi?
Je suis venu tout à fait par hasard sur ce site. Est-ce la Providence?
Je sais toutefois que je demande, tous les jours, à la Sainte Vierge de me protéger des influences très néfastes et dangereuses des sites internet”.
I must confess that I do not know much about this site.
Going against the bishop reminded me of what I was hearing by again I have to say good people. Two Friars who were accused of sexual misconduct were asked by the bishop to leave Medjugorje. His superiors refused the request. Then according to the story, the Gospa was asked if they should leave. Incredibly the Gospa ruled against the bishop and told the visionaries they should not. That Our Lady would say such a thing and over rule the bishop is obvious lies. But the people I was with, good friends, yes, accepted this so easily. The idea that you are in the middle of something great, that OurLady is appearing there, and you are in the midst of it all, seems to be a powerful driving force for closing your mind. This is the difficulty. Perhaps they hope they will see the Gospa.
Pope Francis didn’t approve it at all.
I believe you are correct – if anything, I think he mocked Medjugorje, if not directly, by implication, referring to repeated messages blah blah. Thank goodness he’s gotten something right!
It seems to me that the devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus (the message of Paray-le-Monial) and the Immaculate Heart of Mary (the message of Fatima) have been more or less eclipsed by the Divine Mercy devotion and Medjugorje.
But Our Lord appeared to St Margaret Mary on the Feast of St John the Apostle and made known to her that the devotion to His Sacred Heart was, as it were, the LAST effort of His love to save mankind.
But after this, He sent His Mother to Fatima, and Sister Lucia stated to Fr Fuentes in 1957 that “God is giving two last remedies to the world. These are the Holy Rosary and devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. These are the last two remedies which signify that there will be no others.” As far as I am aware, the explicit instructions given by Our Lady at Fatima have never been repeated in the vague ‘messages’ from Medjugorje.
Also, in response to Sister Lucia’s question why Our Lord would not convert Russia without the Holy Father consecrating that nation to His Mother’s Immaculate Heart, Our Lord replied “Because I want My whole Church to acknowledge that consecration as a triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary so that it may extend its cult later and put the devotion of the Immaculate Heart beside the devotion to My Sacred Heart.”
No mention in any of these things of a new Divine Mercy or Medjugorje devotion – in fact, these quotes are a confirmation that the devotions to the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart are the last helps for mankind. But then we have the ‘new’ Mass, the ‘new’ Rosary and the ‘new’ everything else, so I suppose it follows that we will inevitably get ‘new’ devotions from alleged ‘new’ private revelations as well.
Well said. You have hit several nails on several heads there. Diabolical disorientation writ large.
Your first paragraph is absolutely correct. That is the shocking truth. The devil is working very hard to eclipse the Sacred & Immaculate Hearts. It is terrible to think that so many silly lay people are helping the devil to do this.
If Medjugorje is ‘approved’ then the Holy See would be going against its own published “Norms regarding the manner of proceeding in the discernment of presumed apparitions or revelations” http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19780225_norme-apparizioni_en.html Look at the negative criteria in section B. Medjugorje definitely falls into a few of these criteria, which have been proven beyond doubt (i.e. ‘Our Lady’ spouting doctrinal nonsense – all religions are equal etc; the alleged ‘seer’ Ivan and the other ‘seers’ all heavily profiting from the ‘apparitions’; the grave immorality of some of the Franciscan mentors of the ‘seers’ e.g. Fr Tomislav Vlasic who made a nun pregnant etc, etc.)
The Holy See going against its own published norms? Like, the use of Extraordinary Ministers in the very first published norms (1997 Instruction on the Laity) where it stated that even a packed church was no reason for their use? Really… they’re possibly going to do the same thing with Medjugorje? Well, ah DO decleah! , I AM surprised – not!
Seriously, thank you for that link which I look forward to visiting later.
I see a lot of angry and disturbed Catholics on this forum. I see a lot of dissension, petulance, cynicism, leading to calumny and rumour-mongering. These things, in themselves are the fruits of the devil, the division he has wanted to create all along through this truly heavenly apparition. Most of all, I see a lack of logical thinking, not surprising as the devil is the father of confusion and anarchy. Unbelievably, someone said “I don’t know how anyone with an ounce of intelligence could believe this hoax.” To hold such a view is to be misinformed and confused. I am sorely tempted to answer these people, but what I’ve found with those who hate Medjugorje, aside from it being such an irrational hatred, is that you just cannot reason with them. It is like trying to reason with a hardened atheist. Something’s just got a hold on them and they can’t let go. They don’t acknowledge it in themselves and they continue to spread their murmurings, sensing that they are justified. I hope and pray that the evil one will loosen his hold on such people. Stumbling across this forum was like stumbling into an evil dark place. I would be surprised if this post made it past moderation, simply because it expresses this view. So, I will just pray anyway.
Your unwarranted, and with respect, very ignorant, comment can first be applied to the legitimate authorities of Medjugorje, the bishops of the area, and even the national Bishops’ Conference. All of the aforesaid, having thoroughly investigated, have stated clearly that there is nothing supernatural occurring in Medjugorje. That means Medjugorje is false and the “seers” are false.
Simple obedience to the lawful authorities of the Church in these matters is essential. Failure to obey is pride, the sin of Lucifer.
You have some nerve coming on here telling us how terrbily unCatholic we are in our little “evil dark place” while you, like so many other “liberated Catholics” consistently disobey the lawful authorities of the Church who alone have the power from God to declare in such matters as Medjugorje.
Disobedience is right through the entire Medjugorje business. It was in the Franciscans there who were uspsended for scandalous behaviour. It was in the Medjugorje nun who got herself pregnant to a priest. It is in the idiots who claim to be receiving daily boring messages from our lady, to the tune now of tens of thousands, and the worse idiots who believe this insult to the Blessed Virgin.
I’d rather be in this little “dark place” than the dark place these fraudsters and their followers are heading for, I’ll tell you that much. And let me state again what I have said many times regarding those who still defend Medjgorje despite the scandals and the overwhelming authoritative rejection of it by the legitimate authorities of the Church. Medjugorje fanatics are either wilfully disobedient or have not the IQ of the average house plant.
Thank you for popping in, feel free to pop out again. I think Catholics faithful to the Church are about sick to death now of the rebels who keep pushing this nonsense hoax.
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