Atheists In Heaven – Refined Catholicism

Atheists In Heaven – Refined Catholicism

Note: The video which originally led this conversation, was removed, marked “Private” on YouTube.

Source – Strange Notions


A woman – we’ll call her Harriet – contacted me recently to attack Catholic Truth, and to defend the indefensible modernist revolution in the Church. This includes, of course, a defence of Papa Francis.  When I reminded her of some of his scandalous words, including his assurance to atheists that they could attain Heaven without Christ, she replied: 

“Have you read Stephen Bullivant’s books on belief, unbelief and the Church’s refined teachings about the salvation of atheists?  [Ed: Er… no]

You have no qualifications to write as you do. [Ed I have replied to ask her to identify the qualifications she thinks are necessary to “write as I do”. So far, no reply.]

May I suggest you abandon your apostolate and do something which would enhance the Church? Do you have a nice way with old people suffering from loneliness in homes, abandoned and so on?” [Ed: if it’s all the same to you, I’d sooner abandon our apostolate in order to spend my time holidaying in sunnier climes…]

Well, not having read Stephen Bullivant’s book, and curious about “the Church’s refined teachings about the salvation of atheists” I Googled to dig out  the above video on “Strange Notions” and… well… I look forward to hearing what you think – is Stephen Bullivant merely repeating what the Church has always taught about salvation or is there something new – and, of course,  “refined” –  in what he claims?

And purely as an aside: is there any hope of steering people like the papolatrist Harriet towards the truth about Papa Francis and his immediate predecessors? All and any tips welcome…  I will, of course, send her the link to this thread so go easy on her – I’m sure she means well.  Be nice, and tread carefully… If the sentiment below is true of you, go with it!


Comments (124)

  • chloe

    Interesting article where correction was given to organist by parishioners – hope they had the relevant qualifications!

    September 26, 2017 at 12:20 pm
    • Margaret Mary


      I think that’s a spoof, because the organist’s name is Dr. Ivagotta Rithiminnmi,


      September 27, 2017 at 6:24 pm
  • RCAVictor

    I know this question has been raised before here, but I am once again wondering where all these “academics” and other “correctionists” have been for the past 50 years. Sipping their Cabernet Sauvignon whilst indulging their ecumenical, liturgical and doctrinal fantasies? Fiddling while Rome burned? How many of them, besides Bishop Fellay, have been raising the alarm all these years?

    Well, it is now 11:59:59 PM in the crisis of the Church, yet all we have are these powerless corrections which continue to be ignored by the Pope, who is silent because he has sized up his enemies and concluded that they do not have the will to stop him.

    This situation reminds me of the Novus Ordo Rite of Exorcism, in which the devil is politely requested to remove himself from his victim – rather than being commanded to do so. Likewise the correctionists, who, though they have stepped into the void created by a supine hierarchy, can do no more than politely request.

    If the Church had not been reduced to anarchy, and to groveling in the mud for human respect, she would have commanded by now. Our Lord displayed His power openly only once during His Passion, at the very beginning when Judas and the soldiers came to arrest him in the Garden. I am longing for just one such display by the Church in her passion.

    Perhaps I’m just seeking relief from this chastisement, but I am so tired of the hierarchy inhaling the smoke of Satan, and then blowing it in our faces.

    September 26, 2017 at 4:29 pm
    • Athanasius

      RCA Victor

      I agree with every word, and loved the last sentence.

      Archbishop Lefebvre was the example that all prelates in the hierarchy must follow. He spoke publicly and openly about the dangers to faith that the conciliar Popes were either introducing or permitting. There was no human respect in his corrections, just solid faith. I remember him saying “Satan’s masterstroke has been to sow disobedience through obedience”. Well I think we can alter that a little to meet the present circumstances and the silence of the shepherds by saying “Satan’s masterstroke has been to sow disrespect through human respect”. If Popes endanger the Faith publicly they should be corrected publicly, that’s what St. Paul demonstrated to all subordinates in the Church for all time.

      September 26, 2017 at 5:39 pm
    • Margaret Mary

      RCA Victor,

      I think you are absolutely right. Where have all these “academics” been for the past 50 years – Fiddling while Rome burned? Yes, I agree, fiddling while Rome burned.

      I don’t think they will make much difference now, at this late stage, with their petition. I really don’t.

      September 27, 2017 at 6:26 pm
    • editor

      RCA Victor,

      I agree with Athanasius and MM – every word spot on in your latest post.

      September 27, 2017 at 7:56 pm
  • John R

    I turned to the website “The Remnant” where there is a lengthy video of Matthew Matt discussing “filial correction”. I did not play the whole video but I got the general drift of it quickly enough. He moved on to gossip which is circulating in the Vatican and according to that gossip one of the next moves which Pope Francis will make is to remove the College of Cardinals and the reason behind that move would be so that he can choose his successor as Pope!
    I shudder at that thought. Another Pope like Pope Francis! De his libera nos Domine!

    September 27, 2017 at 11:43 pm
  • Laura

    This is a reply to David K ‘s comment of September 29, 2017 at 8:22 pm because there is no reply button there.

    Your Catholic relatives who praise Pope Francis are obviously modernists and Pope Saint Pius X defined Modernism as “the synthesis of all heresies”. That’s very serious because the one thing we are bound to hate is heresy!

    I’ve enjoyed reading through your comments and the replies to them, but reading your 8.22pm comment today, I think it is clear that you are (understandably) confused about what it means to be a true Catholic and a faithful pope. There is warfare going on in the Church today due to the rise of Modernism and the recent popes not acting in accord with their office to teach and correct heresies. Your relatives seem to be unaware of the purpose of a pope. Talking about forgiveness and mercy in the wrong way (as if it justifies sin) is wrong. Pope Francis doesn’t condemn sin, but talks as if we can live a life of sin and be sure of God’s mercy, even if we don’t repent and try to change. That’s not the teaching of Christ who always said “repent!”

    Our Lady of Fatima did warn us about this crisis, and it will all come right soon enough, in God’s own time, but please do not be misled into thinking that it’s OK for Catholics to have their own opinions about serious matters of faith because it’s not. Your relatives are not educated in the faith or they would know that, with all due respect.

    September 29, 2017 at 9:19 pm
    • Laura

      David K,

      I forgot to say that I am not an “arch conservative” – your relatives are wrong to label people like that who are doing nothing more than sticking to the eternal teachings of the Church. If they are calling us “arch conservatives” then they must be “arch liberals” and there is no place in the Church for liberalism. I once read a great article entitled “Liberalism is a sin”. If I can find it, I will post a link here.

      September 29, 2017 at 9:22 pm
      • Athanasius

        David K

        Since all we do here is uphold the same Catholic Faith that was held and professed by the saints and martyrs, then I guess your family members must also consider them to be “arch conservatives”.

        There are of course no such deliniations in the Catholic Church. One is either a Catholic faithful to Tradition or one is an apostate, it’s that simple. But just to help you understand what is taking place in the Church today with the Modernist rebellion, whose adherents mistake human respect for mercy and charity, here are the wise words of Archbishop Lefebvre for your meditation: “The martyrs sacrificed their lives for the truth, now they sacrifice the truth”

        One final point: St. Paul calls the gods of the pagans “demons”. That doesn’t bode well for you and your interest in Eastern cults, I’m afraid. Reflect!

        September 30, 2017 at 12:41 am
  • Helen

    Athanasius, “The martyrs sacrificed their lives for the truth, now they sacrifice the truth”

    How absolutely spot on! I couldn’t quite get my head around that until recently when our PP, upon being presented with the fact that the martyrs had died for the Faith ( truth), replied: “Oh we’ve moved on from there. We are all christians and profess the same faith”. And more drivel to that effect! It was then that the scales dropped from my eyes and I realised that we were discussing 2 very different religions.

    I always was a bit on the slow side……

    September 30, 2017 at 12:13 pm
  • RCAVictor


    If that is what your PP thinks, I hope you and your husband decide to “move on” from that parish ASAP.

    September 30, 2017 at 6:09 pm
    • editor

      RCA Victor,

      I think most priests think like that these days. I’ve been astonished to read the dates of birth of some Scots priests – they are FAR too young to have ever been near an orthodox catechism. Imagine a priest in his thirties – what POSSIBLE chance does he have of knowing the Catholic religion. No question mark because the answer is obvious!

      September 30, 2017 at 6:15 pm
    • Helen

      RCAVictor, we don’t HAVE another parish within a 100 miles!

      September 30, 2017 at 8:27 pm

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