May, 2018: Abortion In Ireland: Be Careful What You Wish Vote For…
From the Spectator…
Ross Clark
14 February 2018
Most of the time I feel perfectly at ease in my own country, and that would be the case had we voted Brexit or Remain, Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn. But just occasionally Britain seems to me an utterly alien place – bizarre even. Today, Jeremy Corbyn launched his manifesto for pets. He wants to ban foie gras, make it mandatory for motorists to report that they have run over and killed cats, and pass a law giving tenants the right to keep a pet. I don’t suspect that he will encounter a great deal of opposition on these things – bar a token protest on the last from buy-to-let investors. Fox hunting aside, no political party in recent times has come to much harm by doing something to help furry, feathery or scaly animals. In the past 20 years, we have had animal laws by the dozen, controlling the use of animals in circuses and in advertising campaigns, laws against sow stalls and numerous others.
This would all be fine – I can’t say I have a problem with much of the above – if it weren’t for the utter refusal on the part of our main political parties to even discuss what seems to me a far more pressing issue for human beings: the rights of unborn children. With the honourable exception of Jacob Rees-Mogg, when did you last hear a frontline politician or even backbench MP dare to even ask whether our laws on abortion, and the practice of them, ought to be reformed (reformed, that is, in the direction of making it harder to have an abortion)? There seems to be an unwritten rule in politics that the issue must not be discussed, and that anyone holding views which are disapproving of current practice on abortion must be dismissed as an extremist or religious nutter. This is in spite of obvious evidence that abortion as conducted in Britain is completely at odds with the word of the law. Under the 1967 act that legalised abortion, it is clearly stated that it is only supposed to be used in situations where the mother’s physical or mental health is at risk or if the baby were to be born seriously handicapped. Few would even pretend that abortion is being restricted to these cases. It is over 20 years ago now, but the first question my wife’s GP asked her when she said she thought she was pregnant was: do you want the baby? There is little getting away from it: social abortion is routine in Britain, even though it is illegal. The law supposedly preventing it is treated with the same contempt as archaic laws ordering us to do archery practice.
There seems to me to be something desperately wrong here. A Martian looking at us from the outside might well conclude that it is a committee of animals which sets the terms of our political debate. How can it be that we swoon over baby chicks, calves, puppies and the rest, and yet seem blithely indifferent about the industrial-scale destruction of human foetuses? Source – The Spectator
Comment:
I’ve long marvelled at the intensity of the UK public over animal welfare. I’ve seen grown women shed tears during a BBC discussion, upset at the killing of foxes – not the most endearing of animals. Yet, the same people fighting for animal rights seem to see nothing untoward about the cruelty of killing a baby in the womb. Why is that?
Will Ireland hold out against the evil campaigning of the pro-death camp, those who wish Government approval for the murder of the unborn? If you’re still not sure about the use of the term “murder” visit this website and check out the terminated “material” … Don’t duck the reality – look at the images, and then decide if you think once-Catholic Ireland should legalise this death industry.
Comments (42)
If Ireland votes to legalise abortion in May, it will be devastating for the country. We now have abortion on demand, more or less, in the UK and that’s what will happen if Ireland goes the same way and legalises the murder of the unborn.I hope the Irish bishops don’t go silent as they did in the same-sex unions campaign – if they’ve any conscience left, they will speak out loudly against the murder of vulnerable unborn children, and take to the streets to march with the pro-lifers.
I completely agree – if Ireland votes to legalise abortion, it will be truly horrendous. Also, given that wilful murder is one of the four sins crying to heaven for vengeance, I think that this once great Catholic nation will suffer the wrath of God, if they give in to the pro-abortion lobby, no doubt about it. I’m praying for a “no” vote in the referendum.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5379541/Live-lobster-menu.html
Lots of stars went wild for this and caused a huge outcry over killing lobsters live because they feel pain ..well so do preborn Humans
WendyWalker95,
That’s just crazy – even lobsters are more important than babies in the womb. The world really has gone mad.
Even despite the failure and general disgrace of the Church in Ireland, I had somehow thought Ireland would be a stick-on to reject abortion. I expected there was a certain decency among the people to reject this, even if they had turned their backs on the Church there (and its understandable why many have turned their backs).
I also thought that being able to look elsewhere, such as the UK, would show how abortion law has turned out there and so promises of rarity and strict control would be recognised as worthless.
And so I was shocked to see these statistics, which suggest the pro-death camp has a commanding lead in the polls:
Polls are showing that around 50 to 55 per cent of voters support the current government proposal, versus about 30 per cent who want to keep the Eighth intact, with the rest undecided.
http://catholicherald.co.uk/issues/february-9th-2018/against-all-odds-pro-lifers-could-still-win-irelands-referendum/
I’m speechless really. I do hope the pro-life side wins, especially as any win for the despicable pro-death crowd will – of course – only represent a first step.
Yet Irish society does seem very apt to be manipulated by the media, which seems to be what many of them look to now, in place of the Church. The recent “fake news” about doctors supporting a law change is a good example of the manipulation which already underway.
I think the homosexual Taoiseach has a lot of answer for – pretending to be pro-life and then revealing himself to be pro-abortion after the referendum was called. He is under the spell of Justin Trudeau, who is undoubtedly an extremist on this matter. The two have marched on “gay pride” parades together and he credits Trudeau with helping his views “evolve”.
What I will say is that if Ireland votes for this, then Ireland is finished. The nation already has many young people leaving to work over-seas and the birth-rate impact of abortion, on top of this, would leave it a declining nation with an ageing population.
The Irish used to have a great confidence in themselves and their values, yet now seem to desire to ape morally bankrupt, secular nations, which are seen as being the height of sophistication.
Gabriel,
You may have seen this already, but the blog “Toronto Catholic Witness” has been on Trudeau’s case often, including this latest: https://torontocatholicwitness.blogspot.ca/2018/02/what-will-it-take-for-catholic-church.html
(This is a Novus Ordo website that apparently thinks JPII is a real saint, so not 100% where they should be…)
That Toronto website has links to even the Catholic Herald but not Catholic Truth! They’ve a whole section on “the Scottish crisis” but still no mention of Catholic Truth! How can that be when nobody else is reporting the crisis? LOL!
Gabriel
Ireland was finished a long time ago, even long before they voted for same sex “marriage”.
The Irish were desperate to get rid of the “priest-ridden society” image and what better way than to turn their backs completely on the Church.
Some like to use the child abuse/Magdalene sisters argument for the reason but the (alleged) abusers were their own sons, brothers, uncles, nephews and
fathers even. It wasn’t as if their was an airborne invasion of paedophiles who landed illegally on Croagh Patrick.
The desperation to join the twentieth century meant that all signs of devotion or loyalty to the Church had to be binned.
When Pope John Paul 2 visited Ireland, which isn’t all that long ago, the whole communications network had to be upgraded. That was the beginning of the introduction to the modern/ evil world.
I ‘m not suggesting that Ireland should have remained in the era of the jaunting cars, turf fires and upright bicycles but there were a lot less people in those
days, according to a recent report anyway, that needed the services of an exorcist.
Frankier,
agreed with your comment of February 16th 8:48pm. It is my belief that Ireland was cursed after the illegitimate passing of the Lisbon Treaty following a second vote (We gave the “wrong” answer the first time!) The same thing happened with the treaty of Nice, as well; we gave the “wrong” answer first time so we were asked again a second time, and the Treaty was carried.
Ireland, and the whole of Western Europe, as well as the Catholic Church, needs a miracle to silence the evildoers, once and for all, so that they are either converted or annihilated.
Imagine that post referendum there was a vote for pro-life that went just above the 50% mark, say 51.8% or something. I could imagine a Brexit type situation with the losers just refusing to accept such a vote…However if it was vice-versa the pro-lifers would be told to shut up for good…Even in the UK, a minority just will not accept a majority vote in anything these days as Brexit demonstrates.
St Miguel,
Let’s pray hard for a resoundingly HUGE pro-life vote in the forthcoming Irish referendum, and not rely on a result just about 50%, because as you rightly guestimate, the pro-abortionists will not accept that.
Spiritus,
Well said – the EU has become used to getting its own way, thanks to compliant Governments. I’m among those who voted for Brexit, praying that the UK Government stands firm and gets us clean out of it once and for all.
It wold be wonderful, too, if the Irish referendum on abortion gave a resounding “no” vote and refused to be brow-beaten into changing that. We need to pray hard to Our Lady about this latest evil attack on the Faith and Morals of the Irish people.
Brilliant well said Gabriel Syme …
It seems the “New World Order” has developed a sure-fire method for achieving their objectives: throw unlimited amounts of money at appealing to the basest human instincts. Self-gratification, pleasure, envy and greed are usually at the top of the list. Oh, and be sure to couch these appeals in terms which make those base instincts (better known as the 7 Capital Sins) sound compassionate, fair, and enlightened…and to portray those who resist as guilty of varying degrees of criminality.
Everyone,
It’s just astonishing that – as we have been discussing on another thread – research and money is being invested in so-called “fertility” treatments, while at the same time, money is being thrown at the contraceptive and abortion industry, with every effort to expand these anti-child businesses (for that is what they are, make no mistake: big business) .Nobody seems to be connecting the dots, or rather, they don’t want US connecting the dots, hence the death of investigative journalism, which seems to be reduced to spending a night with the homeless on any city centre street you care to name. Yet, more babies conceived and carried to full term (and then permitted to see the light of day) would mean more babies to adopt and would, at the very least, lessen the financial burden on the powers-that-be in the “fertility” field. Seems straightforward and logical to moi…
But then again, as I keep pointing out, I’m just a simple gal…
I think it’s still more likely than not that Ireland will reject abortion in this referendum. The referendum result on so-called homosexual marriage saw the lead for the change camp narrow by 25 percentage points from the polls taken two to three months in advance. At this moment the repeal of the eighth amendment has only about a 55% to 45% lead in the polls. So there is hope.
Sadly however, even if the pro-life side wins I think it will still be a bad result as I will be very surprised if they can muster 60% support. A 60% to 40% result or similar would more or less guarantee another referendum in a decade’s time. A decade during which it seems more likely than not that the culture of death will advance.
It’s up to the Irish church to put it’s own house in order but it seems clear to me that there is a cultural movement in Ireland, now almost twenty years old, which has utterly rejected the Church and all its teachings, in their entirety. Broadly speaking for many Irish men and women, if the Church is on one side then I am on the other. The much discussed homosexual abuse crisis gets all the headlines, but it was only the final nail in the coffin. The institutional Irish church has had almost nothing of value to contribute to the national conversation in Ireland for nearly fifty years.
Most notably the church had nothing to say until it was too late about the rise of materialism, and classism, which characterized the Celtic-Tiger years. It had nothing to say until it was too late about the crony capitalism, and popular corruption which bankrupted the country and lead to the the biggest wave of emigration since the potato famine. It had nothing to say (and still has nothing to say) about the occupation of the north by the British since 1922, and the persecution of the Church there. (In my view Rome historically took the view that Ireland was expendable in the now obviously futile attempt to reconcile with the Church of England.) Northern Republicanism is explicitly campaigning for abortion and one of the reasons Republican politics rejected the Church for Marxism is because the institutional church rejected them first.
On every significant social issue for nearly a century the hierarchy in Ireland had backed the wrong horse, or stayed silent. This particular battle may lot yet be lost, but the war was lost a very long time ago.
Chris McLaughlin,
A great post.
I tend to agree with you that abortion will not pass the referendum this time, but if the Church crisis continues, it will be a sure thing next time. I’m desperately hoping I’m wrong and that they get a huge, landslide victory in May for pro-life, but that would be a miracle at this stage. Just to get a “no” vote would be a big help at this stage.
Chris,
A very interesting comment indeed. I hope you’re right about the forthcoming referendum. We can worry about a decade on, 10 years from now!
Chris
I hope you are right about the result. Sadly I think you are also right that, if pro-life wins, another vote would come down the pike in a few years. (The EU has shown that this is how democracy works in Ireland: repeated votes until the “right” result is achieved).
If that scenario plays out, then the pro-life people must work to educate the youth such that a future vote can be won. Unfortunately, the same sex marriage vote has shown how worthless a teacher the modern Church is.
They must not allow this issue to be spun as the oppressive Church denying Irish women their ‘rights’.
one of the reasons Republican politics rejected the Church for Marxism is because the institutional church rejected them first.
Thank you for this insight, I had no idea about that and always wondered how marxism had managed to take over irish republicanism.
Chris McLaughlin,
I do hope you are correct about the “no” vote in the referendum, and I also hope that the bishops of Ireland have learned a lesson from their scandalous and weak attitude in the same-sex marriage referendum. They’re supposed to be leaders in morality, so I am praying they find the courage to be so in this abortion referendum.
Watching the news broadcasts today, and the anti-Trump reporters going all superior about the President not mentioning the gun laws/gun control in his broadcast about the Florida school shooting, I found myself wondering if they hear themselves, these media folk….
https://www.dailywire.com/sites/default/files/uploads/2016/01/abortion-meme.jpg
Brilliant poster – there’s no answer to that!
For those who may have missed it on the pro-life thread, here’s an interesting clip from Ben Shapiro commenting on the latest sensation over in the USA, the Englishman, John Oliver who passes himself off as a comic. Well, he is, but not in the way he means! Ben gives a description of a late term abortion, revealing the ignorance of Oliver in so doing…Ben’s “English accent” is fun!
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veX_4-5yJJQ&w=537&h=636%5D
I saw a Sky news presenter drooling over John Oliver a few days ago when she interviewed him and they enjoyed their anti-Trump swipes, so I’d love to see their fizzing and furious faces watching Ben at work, demolishing Oliver with ease, in the above clip. Ah well, it’s Lent, so I’ll offer up the deprivation 😀
Fantastic on John Oliver. I’ve seen him interviewed on TV here and making a fool of Trump. Ben Shapiro has called him out brilliantly.
The Spectator report on animal welfare makes sobering reading. It’s so true that people seem to care more about animals than unborn babies or even born babies if they need long-term care, thinking of the parents fighting to have their babies allowed to remain on life-support longer in the hope that they will improve etc. Those kinds of cases show us where the priorities lie in modern day Britain when it comes to children or animals.
I always enjoy Ben Shapiro – his take-down of smug John Oliver was most enjoyable! Asking him to draw an abortion was inspired! I hope Oliver got to see the clip!
This should make the pro-abortion activists think…
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QfKCGTfn3o&w=854&h=480%5D
Considering the way the pro-abortionists are getting more and more militant in the UK, despite abortion being legal, because they won’t tolerate anyone even praying at abortion clinics, I think Ireland would be well advised to leave their law as it is and protect the unborn child from those who are champing at the bit to abort as many as possible.
Wendy Walker, our in-house pro-life activist, alerted me to the latest pro-abortionist shenanigans in England, where they pressurised a Catholic organisation at the University of Newcastle to remove an advertisement for 40 Days for Life. Wendy wondered if I would open a fresh thread to cover this, but, really, all that is going on here in the UK just now, with the Government trying to shut down free speech and prevent pro-lifers working outside abortion clinics, should serve as a warning and a huge incentive to our Irish readers to get to work to make sure there is a NO THANKS! vote in the Irish referendum in May. Below, then, is my email to the Catholic Society group at the University of Newcastle, sent earlier this evening, in the hope that it helps our Irish readers to realise just how devastating it will be if the pro-abortion lobby wins in May…
For the Attention of the Catholic Society
Hi,
My attention has been drawn to the following entry on a pro-abortion Facebook page:
Thank you to the UoN Catholic society for removing the post advertising 40dfl’s “vigil”. This goes to show that the extreme opinions held by groups such as 40dfl do not reflect those of the wider Catholic community. END.
One of our readers in England alerted me to this shocking situation. I’m not sure how aware you are of what these allegedly “pro-choice” people are up to, but they have been working overtime to get the Government to shut down real choice of women facing abortion.
40 Days of Life merely hold prayer vigils outside or near abortion facilities – to pray. Nothing more. That, in fact, is my personal problem with them. I’ve only attended one of their vigils (here in Glasgow) and we were instructed not to respond to any harassment, not to engage in conversation with passers-by etc. just keep praying. I found that difficult especially when one young man began harassing us, calling us vile names and shouting that we should go home, so I began to answer him; the organiser was at my side in seconds, instructing me to simply pray, say nothing. I felt there should have been a separate table with leaflets and a couple of people to answer questions etc. but that’s not what 40 Days for Life do – they simply pray. Yet, even that simple act of solidarity with the unborn child is too much for the “pro-choice” who do not want women to have real choice at all. Far from it. None of the abortion providers suggest alternatives. When a woman contacts them for information, they are given information all right, but only about abortion.
That’s for background, just in case you are unaware of that, since these allegedly pro-choice people portray all pro-life work as badgering women, trying to get them to change their minds in a bullying way etc. Not the case.
Good Counsel Network, on the other hand, while they also pray outside abortion facilities, do offer (but never force) women going in, a leaflet, with an offer of practical help if she doesn’t want to have the abortion. Hundreds of women have responded to their offers of help and some have willingly testified in the current Government review, that they were not harassed – not at all.
The allegedly “pro-choice” people tell lies. Huge ones. That’s, I presume, why they managed to persuade you to remove the poster advertising a 40 Days for Life vigil. Look at what they have said on their Facebook page – they are gloating at your action in support of THEM and against those praying for the sparing of the lives of countless unborn babies. Unthinkable that any Catholic organisation would do that! Gloating. They are using your weakness – for, with all due respect, you must be either weak or ignorant to side with the pro-abortion lobby – in order to further their evil cause.
Take a few minutes to watch the exchange between Yvette Cooper MP and Clare McCullough of the Good Counsel Network, when she was interviewed by the parliamentary Home Affairs Select Committee, working hand in glove with the pro-abortionists to shut down all pro-life “protests” (as they call the pro-life prayerful presence with a view of helping women who don’t really want an abortion.) Notice the manifest lack of evidence for the charges levelled against the pro-lifers. Not a shred of evidence.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=home+affairs+select+committee+clare+mccullough+youtube&&view=detail&mid=6F5018D8A35BFD5EE2416F5018D8A35BFD5EE241&&FORM=VRDGAR
Then take another few minutes to watch Antonia Tully of SPUC answering questions side by side with Clare McCullough
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJF2yfJ5paI – same again. She, like Clare, calls out the lack of evidence. It is astounding that these pro-abortionists have been able to get the Government to organise this [show-trial] “Review”. It’s a scandal.
Hopefully, you will be able to work out what is going on here – the bullying, the lying – all coming from the misnamed “pro-choice” people.
Finally, I have to remind you that it’s just not possible to BE a Catholic and be pro-abortion at any level – which includes allowing oneself to be used to serve the interests of the pro-abortionists.
Therefore, I implore you to restore the poster advertising 40 Days for Life – and, additionally, to go along to participate, if only for an hour. Remember, the baby in the womb is a human being from the very moment of his/her conception. We can’t SEE that he or she is a boy or girl for a few weeks, but he or she IS so, from the very moment of conception. God tells us through Scripture “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you…” so it is just not possible, morally, for any of us to claim to be Catholics if we are participating – however remotely it may seem – in the murder of babies in the womb. Pope John Paul II said that “now more than ever we must call things by their proper name – abortion is murder.” (#58 of The Gospel of Life – Evangelium Vitae) That’s not an “extreme position” – it’s a medical/scientific fact. A baby, once conceived, is never going to be anything except a human being…. Killing him/her is, therefore, by definition, murder.
Please restore the advertisement – make this a very VERY good Lent for you… and for the unborn babies who may be spared through your efforts.
God bless you.
Editor, Catholic Truth.
Another video which features Cardinal Burke and the singer Dana amongst the speakers who are trying to tell the Irish people the dangers of abortion.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aWfVnsGvxCI
I hope our Irish readers – assuming there ARE some – are taking note of how their free speech will be disappearing pronto once they legalise abortion. Here’s another example…
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/23/scottish-labour-msp-withdraws-invitation-priscilla-coleman-abortion
This documentary is well worth watching – it shows the way the Irish and world media manipulated the death of the Indian woman, Savita Halappanavar in Galway, to push the pro-abortion agenda.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S24yxcn379Y&w=854&h=480%5D
The Isle of Man, like Ireland is also debating passing an abortion law. The outlook that abortions will be carried out, right up to the time of birth. Any doctor who refuses to carry out abortions will likely face imprisonment.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/british-island-with-only-83000-people-about-to-pass-one-of-worlds-most-extr
I’ve been trying to find out the date of the referendum, but no luck. Does anybody know?
Josephine,
Apparently the date for the referendum won’t be set until the Irish Parliament debates it. I’ve got my direct line to Ireland on standby and will post the date just as soon as it is released.
Take a look at this scandalous video clip of pro-abortionists mocking Our Lady in Dublin mimicking a religious ceremony
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8FL1wYVXhs&w=500&h=281%5D
Read the entire diabolical report
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/irish-activists-campaign-for-abortion-with-sacrilegious-ceremony-mocking-vi?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com&utm_campaign=b414c0cca2-Catholic_3_1_2018&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_12387f0e3e-b414c0cca2-403774537
NOTE We are planning a public rosary (preceded by the Angelus) at 12 noon on the Saturday prior to the actual referendum vote to make reparation for this scandalous proposal to murder unborn babies in a once-Catholic country and to pray for great graces for the Irish when it comes to the vote. Further details when the date is released, but suffice to say we will be praying outside a high profile Irish venue. Might be an idea to pencil in the event for all the Saturdays in May, to make sure you remain free, if possible, to attend.
Stay tuned!
Editor,
That is chilling. Truly satanic!
Sick. Absolutely and utterly sick. I can hardly believe that this is the country of my youth and I am not yet old. How could this happen? It has to be a lack of catechesis, parish life and clerical neglect. How could they (the bishops) NOT see this coming?
I remember as a very young adult noticing that basic catechesis was no longer taught in some State Catholic primary schools. That perplexed me as these schools were the backbone of Catholic catechesis in Ireland. Then I realised that it was the teachers (my generation) who didn’t believe and so didn’t / couldn’t pass it on. What HAD happened, I asked myself? It didn’t take long to find out that it was the decimation of Catholic training colleges after (a misunderstood Council, I then thought) Vatican 11 and all that went with it. It was all downhill after that when we now have 2 entire generations who wouldn’t know the Life of Christ from West Life!
Crofterlady,
Spot on! Well said. Absolutely every word a jewel. What a terrible scandal.
The bishops do not care, that is what I believe. In 30 years of Pro-Life work I have been disgusted by Dioceses and Archdioceses…even trying to organise a White Flower Appeal, fighting against a deanery. I am appalled and disgusted at the clergy…..who will pull out all the stops for so called minorities but will NOT man up to this subject……now just WHY is that? When did any of us hear this subject from a pulpit. It appears to me that the youth are now so indoctrinated in this as some kind of human right, that it virtually impossible to break through to them and Catholic schools have a sin to answer…too busy organising foreign trips to be bothered.
Here’s some good news about the pro-life progress in Ireland ahead of the referendum.
http://www.lifenews.com/2018/03/12/record-breaking-crown-of-100000-pro-life-people-rally-in-ireland-against-legalizing-abortion/
This is a shocking video clip from a pro-abortion rally in Ireland, where a prostitute (calling herself and her colleagues “sex workers”) is pointing out the link between abortion and prostitution. They really need abortion to be legalised. She is obviously very proud of her “profession” – I wonder how many priests will be supporting the repeal the 8th side in this battle for the lives of unborn babies? I shudder to think. Now we know that as well as condoning and furthering the murdering of unborn babies, they will be helping the “sex industry” – i.e. prostitutes. We should pray for priests and bishops in Ireland to be a big presence in defence of the pro-life movement during this referendum campaign.
I forgot to say that I found out that “hoes” is a local term for “whores” – so she is a very blatant female – I just hope she doesn’t claim to be a Catholic.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9S5QAsLebA&w=854&h=480%5D
O my goodness – we need to pray for that young woman because without much prayer, she will lose her soul. There’s no doubt about it. She would have been one of those referred to by Our Lady at Fatima, when she said that many souls go to Hell because there is no-one to pray for them. The chant at the beginning was really and truly diabolical. God help her.
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