Presbyterians: Bible Vs Transgenderism – Bishops Must End Ecumenical Farceeditor
Testimony featured in Diverse Gender Identities and Pastoral Care includes the demand for a “21st century” update to the “patriarchal” Scriptures, and complaints that “Christian culture” makes life hard for “gender nonconforming” individuals.
“I struggle with the wording of the Lord’s Prayer because I see God as my parent not my father,” writes Andrew, stating that: “God is genderless to me: it’s not father God it is parent God.”
“The Scriptures are very patriarchal; we need to update them for the 21st century,” adds the churchgoer, who was born female but identifies as a man. Read entire report here, but note, it contains crudities – which almost prevented me from posting this thread. However, it’s crucial to our understanding of the depth of depravity in the C of S and – if the Scottish Bishops do not withdraw from all ecumenical activity – the depth of the loss of Catholic Faith and Morals of the Scottish Bishops who, by their complicit silence, reveal their acceptance of this depravity.
Take a look at this Open Letter from the former Moderator of the Free Church of Scotland (Thanks Martin Luther, John Knox et al, for all the confusion you’ve caused) addressed to Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s First Minister, dated 1st April, 2016. Let’s hope he is still of the same opinion – in any event, I doubt if there is much enthusiasm for ecumenism within the Free C of S. I’ve just paid a flying visit to their official website and can see no mention of it. And little wonder – it’s pointless, is it not? Should the Bishops withdraw the Catholic Church from all ecumenical endeavour and simply return to seeking converts, following the example of Our Lord Himself who told us that if we wish to follow Him we must give up everything – which, self-evidently includes depravity…
I think the option on the poll that indicates “no – keep talking to convert them” is actually the problem in a nutshell. You don’t convert by papering over the cracks. Only by telling the truth can we bring converts to the Church.
I agree – totally. That’s why I thought the image of the “ecumenical bike” with both cyclists facing opposite directions, is apposite.
I have also popped in to remind everyone that today is the Feast of St John Ogilvie, Scotland’s only post-Reformation martyr, and it’s a given that he would be appalled at the entire ecumenical concept. He who gave his life for the Catholic Faith, who said on the scaffold that he did not want the prayers of heretics, would never condone empty and pointless conversations with non-Catholic prayers and hymns lacing the events.
No Catholic should hate Protestants or any other non-Catholic persons. We should be desperate for their conversion to the Church founded by Christ, because that is where spiritual and eternal safety is to be found, and should avoid any movement which gives the impression that “we’re good” with whatever religious beliefs A.N. Other chooses. That is contrary to God’s will and anyone who goes along to get along, spreading this heresy, risks their eternal salvation.
So, in short, a Happy Feast of St John Ogilvie, to one and all.
PS, considering the supposed success of the ecumenical dialogue that has been going on for years, when I’ve taken visitors (two from England and our very own Wurdesmythe from the USA) on the Glasgow bus tour, it was notable that when we arrived at Glasgow Cross, the place of John Ogilvie’s martyrdom, the tour guide made no mention of it, the saint was not mentioned at all, and the Cross was passed off as the place where they used to put gossipy women in stocks and throw rotten tomatoes at them. Of very dubious veracity, but then it’s better than drawing attention the Scotland’s Catholic past. Init…
I certainly have my disputes with you Ed not about our Faith though or the watering down of such and am 200 % behind you on the not wanting Ecumenchism of any kind . I most certainly don’t want to be sharing a Church Service with someone who regards Our Blessed Lady as a vessel. I was on Twitter with a supposedly ex Catholic who said that she was surprised at the Catholics who didn’t know that Mary ( as they call her ) had a Family and that Christ had brothers. She also said that Bible Study was a lot better than Mass and that the lack of Mary in ” The Bible ” showed that she was nothing special. I said to her That St Luke got at least the first 30 Chapters of his Gospel from Our Lady and that as St Luke was the only Evangelicalist not to meet Christ in this Life he went to the next best source on that she actually agreed. Of course everything I said was wrong according to her . Then she went on that o so Protestant of Rants about our Devil worship of Our Lady through Fatima and Lourdes. One thing these Protestants never mention is the words of Christ when Our Lady was at the foot of The Cross . Woman behold thy Son and Son behold thy Mother from that day St John took Our Lady into his Home . Had Our Lady had any other Family these words of Christ would not have been required to have been spoken. No I do not want to go to Heretical Services with Protestants or their Ministers. I went to One years ago and one was enough. It was actually a female Moderator who kept on calling God She .
I did read that report and it is disgusting but I agree necessary to show how pointless the ecumenical meetings are.
It’s laughable that these Presbyterians want to change the bible (even more than they changed it at the Reformation!) when they are supposed to be opposed to us because we don’t stick to the literal bible. LOL!
If the bishops don’t issue some kind of statement to say they completely disagree about this, then they’ll be showing where they stand and it won’t be on the side of Catholic teaching.
Well spotted! The idea that the Bible alone is sufficient for our ability to live a Christian life and save our souls, is the very cornerstone of Protestantism. The Transgenders have not only achieved what we, Catholics, could not do – convince the Presbyterians that Scripture needs to be interpreted – but they’ve gone further and convinced the Presbyterians that Scripture may be contradicted and that only the narrow-minded, bigoted old papists disagree!
Truly, you could not make this stuff up.
As Rod Pead pointed out in ‘Christian Order’ a while ago, there is dialogue that con-verts and dialogue that PER-verts.
Ecumenical e#crement, is what I’d call the latter.
I can’t believe the absolute bigotry displayed on this thread. Typical Catholic Truth Scotland! Bigots the lot of them! You cath more flies with honey than vinegar. You are all so unchristian.
I think you mean “catch” more flies.
At least he called us “absolute” bigots instead of “relative” bigots! That was “big” of him……
Yes, Victor, you are bigots. You are against our brothers and sisters in the reformed branch of the church !
There ARE no “branches” of the Church. There is but one Church and that is the one established by Christ when He said: “Thou art Peter and upon this rock, I will build my Church” (note, singular).
Then, in the course of history (as now) we had some very bad priests who wanted to do their own thing, start their own religion, and so it came to pass. These “churches” however, are no such thing; they are schismatic “ecclesial type communities” (as I think Pope Benedict described them in one Vatican document).
It’s not bigotry to say that – it’s simply a matter of fact.
Now, Montini, you know that we don’t tolerate trolling here, so either engage seriously with the bloggers or say “nite nite” very nicely 😀
Well said. I’m sure Montini has been here before, popping up from time to time before disappearing. You’ve certainly put him in his place!
I do recall him from the far distant past. Still, he’s not a bad lad. I fully expected him to come back on and say “nite, nite, nicely”… 😀
But he didn’t…. he’s taken his leave gracefully…
I think we ought to have a whack-a-mole area on the blog, for trolls who pop up from time to time:
I’ve just seen this! Priceless!
Still, since Montini seems to have gone to ground 😀 I think we can postpone the setting up of a “whack-a-mole area for now!
There’s never any bigotry on this blog. I’ve seen plenty of anti-Catholic Truth bigotry, not bigotry from the bloggers, though.
Hear, hear. It’s the trolls who are bigots.
Montini am going to blow my own Trumpet here . As a Catholic I have helped many many so called Protestant Bigots one of whom was Homeless and I let stay 2 Days and Nights in my house . I would have let him stay as long as he needed but I had work to go to and he was a Smoker and a Heavy Drinker and wouldn’t stop and I did not want my house burned down he was a member of the Orange Order and his so called own kind were not willing to give him a roof over his head . Yes actions speak louder than words but am not guessing when I say that probably all who come on this blog would do the same and more . Just because we don’t wear a Sally Army Uniform and go about selling The War Cry doesn’t make us Bigots what’s not for debate though is Truth you cannot debate Truth . It’s there whether you like it or not . Years ago I worked in a Church of Scotland and got to know the Minister very well . This day though Our talk got rather heated about Religion to the point that I asked him had he a degree in Theology, he said Yes , I asked him why if he knew the Truth he was a Protestant Minister. That was over 40 years ago and am still waiting for an answer. Our Lord said don’t show your works before men if you do you have had your Reward. I state the above not to show am a good Christian but to show am not a Bigot . Nor are probably any on here as a Bigot to me is one who will not tolerate another’s opinion or Principles.
That’s actually disappointing. I’d thought the Presbyterians were still on the right road about moral issues, or at least some of them, and I would never have dreamt that they would welcome transgenderism. This is really quite shocking.
I thought the bishops should close down ecumenical discussions when the Anglicans ordained women and I think the same now of the Church of Scotland. What’s the point of ecumenism if it’s not to bring people into the Church – to clear up their misunderstandings and enable them to return to the faith of their fathers. Instead of that, ecumenism seems to be taking people further and further away. It’s all very disappointing and sad.
Happy Feast of St John Ogilvie everyone!
I think we ought to pray fervently to him today, for our Scottish bishops. They are seriously in need of prayer and in need of an awakening about ecumenism, when it is obviously not working.
I wonder how many Protestants attending C of S services will continue to support the C of S now that it is on board with the ridiculous idea of transgenderism.
I really liked the Open Letter from the Moderator of the Wee Frees – that was a breath of fresh air and should have been written by a Catholic bishop. They really lack leadership skills, not to say Christian faith.
I wish everyone a happy St John Ogilvie’s Day – what a fantastic saint.
I agree it’s disappointing about the Church of Scotland capitulating to the LGBT agenda, but that’s what happens when people slip their moorings. When the Protestant revolutionaries started their own church in the middle ages, it was a foregone conclusion that they would fall deeper and deeper into error. Christ didn’t give them any guarantee, but he gave that to the Church he founded – today called the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church of Christ.
Pope Francis has already approved a re-translation of the Lord’s Prayer in France, so the skids are already greased for re-writing the Bible, I’m afraid. He’s also condemned proselytism as “solemn nonsense” and “poison,” so if the spineless Scottish bishops are looking to their Vicar for an example, it seems probable that they will do the complete opposite of what Catholic sanity dictates: i.e. they will continue their surrender of the Church to mental illness and sin.
I think a white flag ought to be flown over every Cathedral in Scotland, to indicate the betrayal of the Faith of which these bishops are guilty.
Yes, and the Bishop of Paisley along with the former Bishop of Galloway (of extremely unhappy memory) were just fine with the rewriting of the Our Father – takes the biscuit doesn’t it. We have Cardinal Kasper telling us not to use the word “adultery” any more about divorced and “remarried” people, and anyway, Jesus didn’t really say that, and the Pope himself criticising those other words of Christ… “and lead us not into temptation…” And the Scottish Bishops go along to get alone, as per usual…
And it’s a sure bet that the Scottish Bishops will be less than enthusiastic about questioning the words of a Church of Scotland document – especially one with “Diverse”, “Gender identities” and “Pastoral Care” in the title.
They just make me SOooooo mad!
Victor I think that’s the so called Elephant in the room is how can someone be Guilty of throwing something away which they never had in the First Place. Francis is obviously not a True Catholic he maybe one in name but so have many Tyrants down through the years . And he is a Tyrant disbelief or disagree what He says and your Out . I often wonder about people who cannot hold a discussion without disagreeing surely that is Democracy. But you see it in all these Leftist Movements and Women’s Feminist movements disagree with us at your cost and Francis is right at the head of this . As you say he wants to re-write Scripture. Boy when you hear him talk you wonder if he’s read Scripture anyhow. His who am I to Judge Famous statement has been used to Judge only Good and faithful servants. Anyone who took a statue of Luther into the Vatican was making the statement ( as far as am concerned) . This is who we shall follow from now on not the word of Christ but the word of The Heretic Luther . Also there are many Priests who don’t want Echumenichism but they are under the Party Whip so to speak . Either go along with it or your out .
RCA Victor, there is a new theme doing it’s rounds just now, very topical, it’s called ‘gaslighting’……looks to me that the NEO bishops and their retinue of like minded buddies may be trying to gaslight us traditional thinkers….trying to get us to imagine we are the folk with a mental problem, our imaginations are running riot..if you get my drift. Of course I am sure they would prefer Stockholm Syndrome and actually get us to love our tormenters….just a thought, as I imbibe on a can of soda.
Yes, I remember coming across that last year at some point, I think it was brought up by a Remnant columnist. However, it turned out to be just another clod of dirt thrown against the wall by Pope Francis, which didn’t stick. It seems he likes to spin around in circles like a lawn sprinkler, throwing off his bolshevik accusations right and left (all in the name of “mercy” of course). Apparently he hasn’t figured out that no one is paying attention anymore to the Pope who cried “rigid!”
Ecumenism has proved a disaster for the Catholic Church. What happened to Our Lord’s great commission “Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned”. Traditional Catholic Priest Fr. Carota RIP summed it up well what has happened since.
Archbishop Lefebvre knew after Vatican 2 would come the end of the Church’s mission to convert souls to the one true faith – The Catholic Church.
The Church has gone down-hill rapidly following Vatican 2, its enemies are all quite happy waiting for its demise they do not want a resurrection. They are not like Coca-Cola Company when they made a mistake in introducing a new version of Coca-Cola, which proved a disaster so a U-turn was initiated. The public was successful in its efforts to re-instate the original brand.
“If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.” – Saint Augustine – quite apt for these times.
Yes, ecumenism has proved a disaster, but it’s been a smashing success for those who have been and are intent on changing the substance of the Catholic Faith and Church, so that it (a) is no longer a barrier to a new world religion, and (b) even worse, fits nicely into that new religion. Ecumenism is nothing more than the road to indifferentism….paved with spineless stupidity.
That’s what all the useful idiots among the clergy don’t seem to realize: they are hanging themselves, the Church, the Faith, and the souls of the faithful with the rope of false human respect. It is a surrender and a betrayal disguised as a “reform,” or “updating.”
Yes and in the business world it is called REBRANDING.
I agree, and IMHO, the “rebranding” is all with a view to changing Catholic teaching on chastity, including doing away with celibacy.
It is and always has been about derrieres on seats, income, viz the Germanic model. I am now convinced that the set up now is entirely about money and power and even showbiz…this Vat Pack could give the Borgias’ a run for their money. If you were an atheist you would truly believe that it is nothing short of organised crime based on a hoax. It is becoming increasingly difficult to convince any Catholic members of my extended family that the Church is is really about saving our souls.
Football managers, CEO’s of any business would be marched out the door for continuous abject failure of the ‘mission statement’….they care not a jot.
We always close the blog for Holy Week to allow us to attend the Holy Week services and to, hopefully, spend more time in spiritual reading and prayer as Lent draws to a close and we prepare to celebrate Easter.
I’ll post a notice nearer the time with details of closing and opening, so read this merely as a short “Be Prepared” reminder – we don’t want anyone suffering sudden withdrawal symptoms 😀
I actually followed the link pathway and downloaded the CofS document in question. God forgive me, I burst out laughing upon opening it. The front cover features various oddballs, including an individual who looks like a butch rugby player in drag (presumably he would have us believe he is a woman).
Inside, (yes I ventured that far), one individual states his life goal* is to wear a beard and lipstick at the same time. So, not “get to heaven” as one might expect for a Christian.
(*judging by the front cover, someone has already beaten him to it.)
Embarrassing rubbish from the CofS – even by their own standards – and pretty creepy embarrassing rubbish at that. But then, what else could protestants produce, as they rush to align themselves with the world at every turn?
The CofS would be better off ensuring its affairs are in order etc, with its impending doom on the horizon. It seems they are determined to be remembered not just as a failed man-made religion, but an especially idiotic failed man-made religion.
And of course this kind of thing just adds a further curl of the toes to the bankrupt nonsense of ecumensim. How the Bishops can persevere without a “red neck” (to use a Scots term), I don’t know.
Actually, I do know – they genuinely believe this is what Christianity is, this is why Our Lord died on the cross – so they could have an annual photocall with the local protestant wackos. If they were not pandering to ecumenism, they would not know what to do with themselves.
Yesterday (10th March) was the anniversary of the martyrdom of St John Ogilvie at Glasgow Cross in 1615. The local Jesuits take great delight in marking the day with an “ecumenical celebration” taking their lead from the current Archbishop of Glasgow, who once stated Ogilvie died for “religious freedom” (as opposed to the Catholic faith).
Never a roaring success, I understand the ecumenical event now faces almost painful levels of indifference, with the numbers of protestant ministers invited to participate nearly outnumbering the small band who turn up to form a congregation.
The whole business is an insult to the great Saint, who famously stated, when standing on the gallows, “the prayers of heretics I will not have”.
(Interestingly, I learned at short notice that there was a competing traditional event to mark Ogilvie’s martyrdom. Apparently there was benediction at Sacred Heart, Bridgeton, then a procession, ending with a latin mass at St Pat’s Anderston. I went to the mass. There was maybe about 20 people there, so quite a small event but infinitely more worthwhile than the ecumenical dross on offer from the Jesuits. The mass was well done, by a visiting priest whom I did not know or recognise, and it was the first time I had ever been in St Pats which is a fine Church, but sorely in need of a lick of paint).
A lick of paint? I’d say St Patrick’s Anderston is sorely in need of re-consecration following the shocking murder there – do you remember? The Archbishop rejected requests to re-consecrate, and merely conducted a “rededication” ceremony in the presence of – you guessed – all the city and religious dignitaries he could fit into the pews. Scandalous.
Should have been Exorcised imho….but wait, no Exorcist since 1974 as Archdiocese dispensed with the need for such. Out of curiousity does anyone know if the SSPX have Exorcists?
Found this article, but this appears to be a rare exception (you’ll have to excuse the embarrassing ignorance, not to mention the stupidity, of the blog host regarding exorcisms and the SSPX): http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page/305707_Iowa_Priest_Chosen_to_Become_E
If this is correct, Fr. Fleming is the official exorcist for the Diocese of Des Moines, Iowa.
Understood RCAVictor..in Scotland I personally knew the Archdiocesan Exorcist, prior to 1974 where the incoming new Archbishop decided that Exorcists were ‘old hat’ and we are where we now are. The church that Ed refers to was the site of a vicious murder by Scotland’s now most infamous serial killer, the body was hidden under the floor of a Catholic Church in Glasgow, St. Patricks’ to be precise…just Google ‘Peter Tobin’.
The worst sacrilege which could ever be perpetrated in a catholic church was just whitewashed over and it’s been business as usual.
No need for an Exorcism or even a Re Consecration.
Now why would that be I wonder?
Ed, can you imagine all the so called dignitaries floating about and being embarrassed with kneeling,genuflections, Holy Water, powerful prayers, mention of Satan etc. So what do we do again in the name of ecumania…yep, graduate to the lowest common denominator.
Bear in mind that the Church of Scotland lost their biggest Congregation through their support for the redefinition of marriage and ‘practicing’ gay Ministers. So maybe all is not quite lost with them.
I see your point, but for me the fact that the CofS ‘lost’ the congregation which objected to these things shows that they are indeed doomed. Any dissenters are driven out in the face of the new, secular-led morality.
In any case, I would bet that the congregation in question will continue to play the principled and faithful Christians, up until such time as it suits them to redraw morality for their own particular purposes.
This process is called “protestantism”.
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