Catholic Truth Goes To Ireland…editor
A small group of us will be in Ireland for a couple of days later this week, leafleting in support of the pro-life campaign in the forthcoming abortion referendum.
News updates will be posted on this thread, and any statistics on abortion in the UK that you think will help us when we speak to Irish people on the streets of Dublin on Thursday and Friday, will be most welcome. Please post as many facts as you can find – we need to be well equipped to convince the “undecided” as, sadly, the humanity of the unborn child doesn’t seem to be sufficient in the face of the propaganda about the woman’s alleged right to choose. We WILL do our best to counter this argument, since it’s not HER body that the choice is about, but about the body – and soul – of the unborn baby. Our excellent little leaflet highlights this fact, that the child being destroyed by abortion was destined for eternal life, known by God from all eternity.
Above all, please pray for our trip – we’ll only be there on Thursday all day and then on Friday, the day of the referendum, so time is short. We have organised 3,000 leaflets to distribute so we will be very busy during the two days.
Our leaflet includes some details about Gianna Care – a practical pro-life group – so please spread this website around, send it to your friends and relatives in Ireland, for them to use in campaigning to save the 8th amendment of the Irish Constitution which protects the right to life of the unborn child.
we should be very grateful to Patricia and friends for what they are doing brave and courageous please anyone with some facts ,figures ,and truth that will tear away this hideous cloak of lies ,and evil from Ireland would be marvellous I wish you all well Patricia and I hope your brilliant leaflets will change hearts and minds ..and save precious Mums and babies …perhaps it might be a good idea to put the contents of your leaflet on here so people can see it ?….Lots of prayers raised to heaven for you all Bless you
Thank you Wendy – I hadn’t thought of posting the leaflet because wasn’t online when I wrote the blog post – now, however it IS online, linked from our website. And I’ve now added it to the blog introduction. Here’s the link and everyone is free to print if off and distribute it, especially, obviously, in Ireland. We have it copied onto A5 size paper, small leaflet size.
That link to our leaflet is not working, presumably as a result of the original not having been saved for use on this new blog. Mea culpa!
Thanks for coming over. We need all the help we can get. I hope you don’t get too much agro. The pro-abortion camp here can be very hostile. I have mostly been contributing by praying but I did go on two of the Dublin rallies and went leafleting here in County Mayo. I had two different women shouting at me in the street; one about rape victims, and the other mostly complaining about us being there at all with our campaign posters which she reacted strongly to. She seemed to think we should be presenting both sides of the story, that we shouldn’t be telling people to vote ‘No’. I found her arguments quite confusing. Two groups of school-children (teens) stopped to speak to us, mainly for entertainment I think. They were very pro-abortion and anti-Church even though they were ostensibly attending a Catholic school.
Another pro-life service for crisis pregnancies in Ireland is Ask Majella: see askmajella.com/about-us for more information. Your leaflet looks good and I think the information about the heartbeat and so on is very good for people to realise. You’ll find pro-choice people will mention the Savita case a lot so you need to read up about that. They claim that Savita died because she was denied an abortion but she actually died of blood poisoning through medical negligence. In any case, Ireland’s current law could have saved her because Ireland allows abortion when the mother’s life is at risk. There is no need to abolish the 8th amendment to cater for cases like this. HTH
Yes, those with a pro-abortion mentality can be very nasty. I remember walking on the Rosary Crusade procession in London a few years back. A man walking in the procession near to me was handing out pro-life leaflets to passers by. A group of women were standing at the edge of the pavement, who weren’t part of the procession and they were happily handing out animal rights leaflets (PETA, I think it was) to people in the procession. I saw the man offer them a pro-life leaflet and when they saw what it was, they went ballistic. Animals have rights, but apparently unborn children don’t. Diabolical.
WF, et al,
Here’s Jacob Rees-Mogg putting a BBC presenter in her place when she presses him on his ‘views’ on abortion. Scroll to around 26.49…
Is there any way of resurrecting this clip which is no longer available?
I just Googled Jacob Rees-Mogg, Kay Burley interview, and a selection of slips came up – I have now re-posted the interview, above. I hope it stays put this time!
Thanks but there isn’t a 26:49 as the clip is only 24.06 long.
If you Google it you can check out all the clips – just Google his name and Kay Burley and Sky News interview, then click on “videos” and you will see a string of them. I really need to keep my head down if you want to receive the next due newsletter… AND, as if I’m not getting enough interruptions, I’m interrupting myself in order to launch a new thread.
Gimme patience… not least with myself!
Yes, it’s strange how people can have these blocks that stop them seeing the contradictions in their beliefs. I’ve had them myself (and might still have some, I suppose). All we can do is keep trying to make sure that the truth is spread, and pray that people start to listen.
P.S. There are lots of articles about Savita on the Internet but here is one to get you started: http://www.lifenews.com/2012/12/03/ireland-activist-admits-savita-may-not-have-wanted-abortion/
Savita was on lots of the YES posters and her name brought up by YES propagandists, who didn’t want to know that her death was not a result of not having an abortion: “The terrible story of Savita’s death is not about abortion. It is a story about medical negligence of appalling proportions.
Try telling THAT to a YES voter!
Indeed. It was one of the main lies being told and retold to whip up public outrage here.
You paint a very tragic picture dear Sarah thank you for it …oh yes the abortionist have done their homework no doubt with a lot of goading from Uk ….who would ever imagined a Country like Ireland would be facing this ?….The saying is ..hard cases make bad Laws ..how true I praise your courage and dignity and please keep speaking up for the precious preborn
There are a lot of good people in Ireland spending hours each day going door to door canvassing. Pro-abortion propaganda has dominated in the Irish media but the pro-life canvassers are turning things around. As soon as the Irish people hear what’s really at stake, they change their minds. We’re still behind in the polls though so please, everybody, keep praying for a victory for life on Friday.
As I’ve said below, in response to Spiritus, I didn’t meet ONE pro-lifer, not with the official NO group, during the two days we were campaigning on O’Connell Street and Henry Street. It was disappointing, to say the least, although I do recognise the need for home to home visits as well. Still, I would have thought a few, at least, would have made a point of having a presence in the city centre, albeit (as ours turned out to be) symbolic only, in the end.
Sorry to hear that. Maybe they felt they’d covered Dublin centre enough, or maybe they knew you were coming so they could leave it in safe hands. 😉 We did have all those rallies there. One group (whose name escapes me just now) has been displaying graphic abortion images around the city for months now. Their displays are very eye-catching and thought-provoking (for the open-minded), and they moved them around frequently to different places.
WOMAN FROM iRELAND DIES AFTER LATE ABORTION MARIE STOPES EALING
The abortionists dont say much about that though do they ?
A MUSLIM STATEMENT
MUSLIMS OPPOSE ABORTION AND THE DELIBERATE KILLING OF OUR INNOCENT UNBORN CHILDREN
FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
-Humane reasons(Killing an innocent human being is prohibited in Islam)
-Health reasons (To avoid many psychological and physical medical problems for the mother following abortion)
-Moral and Religious reasons
This barbaric killing is PROHIBITED by GOD Almighty ,the Owner of all life , By Moses, by Jesus and by Muhammad(Peace be upon them)
We already are KILLING 600 innocent babies every day in the UK through abortion?
BRITISH MUSLIMS, IRISH MUSLIMS AND ALL CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS, SAY NO TO ANY CHANGE IN THE 8th Amendment and to keep the law as it is now
We all should follow the 10 Commandments !
WE MUSLIMS LOVE BOTH: THE UNBORN BABY AND THE MOTHER!
DR A MAJID KATME(MBBCh,DPM)
Leader of the Pro-life Muslim Campaign
Welcome to Dr Abdul Majid Katme Online
THE EMBRYOLOGICAL STAGES IN THE QUR’AN : In the Name of ALLAH the Most Compassionate the Most Merciful:
Tel no: 07944240622 or 0044 7944240622
NB: DR KATME IS AVAILABLE FOR INTERVIEW
Please share with any Muslims you may know thank you
Wendy, a regular canvasser here in Ireland told me that the Muslims she had called on were very supportive.
Sadly, not all Muslims. I approached an imam on Henry Street and was completely ignored. Many women with the head scarves also refused our leaflets.
They probably thought that you were giving out Catholic literature.
I doubt that. The place, as you know, was heaving with YES and NO posters, and people handing out literature for both. Obviously, it’s possible, but I wouldn’t bet money on it. Then again, if I thought I might win… 😀
Sorry to hear that, Petrus. Thanks for trying. It looks like Ireland is no longer a Catholic country now for sure. From the few jubilant victory comments I’ve been reading they can’t get free of the Church quick enough. I can’t express how sad I feel right now. They don’t know what they’re letting themselves in for.
No, Sarah, people don’t have a clue of the divine punishment awaiting them, especially in the next life. By the time people realise their errors it may be too late.
There are still a good number of faithful Catholics in Ireland who will, no doubt, be offering reparation over the coming weeks and months for this terrible offence against God. May He have mercy on us.
I fully intend to keep those jubilant scenes imprinted on my memory, so that every single time I hear the nonsense about women agonising over the murder of their unborn child, I can remind them of the gleeful jumping around and utter delight on 25 May, 2018, when Ireland voted to legalise abortion. No WAY are they “agonising” – patent nonsense.
Quite so. It will be hard to forget actually. 🙁 It was an eye-opener for me, and not a pleasant one.
My experience was to be ignored by a fully garbed Muslim woman, who studiously walked past, ignoring my polite request for a couple of minutes of her time, but then, a minute or so later, when I approached a younger Muslim girl, western dress but wearing a scarf, she did stop, listened, took the leaflet, examined it as she listened, politely seeming to be in agreement. I told her there is a Muslim doctor here (who is part of Wendy Walker’s email circle) and that he works hard for the pro-life cause and has said that every Muslim should vote pro-life, always. She looked up at me at that point, nodding. I finished asking her to please vote NO to protect the lives of babies, and she nodded and thanked me.
I didn’t approach other Muslim women because they were fully garbed in the niqab and their frozen faced forward march indicated that I was not to approach. Whether that is because they are of the strict view that they should avoid mixing with the “infidels” as much as possible, or whether because they were YES voters, is anybody’s guess.
Short video clip and the excellent Catholic Truth leaflet should be enough to make any sane person realise what they are plotting – to kill a real, live human being, and surely that can never be right, no matter what the circumstances.
It’s disgraceful that the Irish Prime Minister is on the side of the pro-abortionists, he being a medical doctor. Shame on him.
Their PM, a partnered homosexual as well as being pro-abortion and a medical doctor, was careful to avoid using the words “baby” or “unborn child” or “foetus” – see video clip below – i.e. he avoids anything that would smack of acknowledging that he has just facilitated the murder of unborn children. And elsewhere he focused on the importance of “trusting women” – one of the key mantras of the YES campaign. If an alien had landed during the campaign, he/she/they/it (!) would have wondered what it was all about, there being no mention in any of the mainstream media broadcasts, to indicate that a child is involved – let alone that a child’s death at the whim of the mother is involved: “The moral gravity of procured abortion is apparent in all its truth if we recognize that we are dealing with murder.” (Pope John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, No. 58)
Having read the Muslim Statement, it is terrifying to see that 600 unborn babies are killed in the UK on a daily basis. That number does not surprise me at all. But it is a terrible indictment of the UK, that when I multiplied those 600 by 365 days (one year), the total number was 219,00. That is only one year, how many years since abortions were “legalised”?
This is an offence against God Himself.
The numbers don’t faze the pro-abortionists. I once participated in a debate at the University of Durham, where one of them slipped up in response to a question about numbers, saying that, despite their best efforts, some still “slipped through the net”! In other words, there are still SOME babies born alive and well – truly, you couldn’t make it up.
Abortion has created the so-called ‘ageing population’.
Not to mention contraception.
BRAVO! she is totally right… What she said is absolutely perfect!
I do hope Lifesitenews are right about this.
I am a lot more hopeful about the referendum outcome than I was previously. I have followed the progress mostly by looking at twitter posts etc.
(Its notable how the pro-abortion side never actually mention abortion or babies, and only have lies or venom to offer).
I was encouraged by this tweet yesterday, from Declan Ganley, one of the main figureheads of the pro-life side:
“Short of some massive game changer (& they’ve tried about everything at this point), after this evening’s canvass, I will genuinely be very surprised if there’s a Yes vote. That said, turnout is everything. No voters have to vote.”
He has been involved in a lot of debates, activism and canvassing and so should be well placed to comment.
Still we must not be complacent and continue to pray and do all we can.
Sadly, Declan was wrong.
Driving to Mass this morning, I tuned into Radio 4 and heard a discussion about the vote. I think the pro-lifer was called Robert, but not quite sure. Anyway, to my shock, like the pro-life woman commenting on the TV news this morning (on Sky), he took the “democratic” line – disappointed but, bit like Brexit or an election result, we need to “respect” the vote.
Nope. Wrong. Big time.
If I were a pro-abortionist listening to that, I would have my conviction reinforced, that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with killing an unborn child. Interestingly, the pro-abortionist on the panel wasn’t quite to indulgent and she gave him a hard time for just about everything to do with the Catholic Church, pro-life movement. I hope he’s learned a good lesson about not falling into false charity but speaking the truth in season and out of season, on radio and off radio. And for heaven’s sake, don’t place “democracy” above the Irish Constitution pledge to only enact laws which conform to the law of God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Is there ANYONE in this world who doesn’t think that the “will of the people” trumps everything else? Even an innocent baby’s life in the womb?
I pointed out to more than one person that, next time they find themselves marking Holocaust Day and lamenting the fate of the 6 million Jews killed by Hitler’s regime, they might recall that none of those adults, Jews, Catholics, anyone else, were genuinely “innocent” – that we’re all guilty of something, at one level or another, and that it is, literally, only the child in the womb who can lay claim to authentic innocence, as we think of it. Deafening silence until the only riposte possible comes to mind, albeit too late to be a genuine riposte (!): “How DARE you compare abortion to Hitler…?!”
I contacted a friend in Dublin to let him know I was going over. I wondered if he would want to meet at the airport for a coffee. Sadly, he couldn’t make it but showed a bit of interest in why I was coming to Dublin. I sent him the link to our blog and he seemed interested.
However, he was clearly keeping his powder dry until after the result because today I got a floating message from him saying it was a victory for democracy. I made the same point that the majority had voted for Hitler. He then said that I haven’t had to live in a country where friends couldn’t “love” someone of the same sex and where women “didn’t have control over their bodies”.
I pointed out that women have always had control over their bodies. If they don’t want to have a baby then they shouldn’t engage in sexual behaviour. Abortion is not an issue of women’s health, it’s an issue of women’s lack of control!
Anyway, he said he expected me to “respect his position”. I told him I most certainly did NOT respect his position and there’s nothing respectful about supporting the killing of the unborn. Therefore, I’m very disappointed to hear of the “pro-lifer” who would respect the referendum result. The people clearly don’t always get it right!
There are quite a few people who cannot tell the difference between “respecting” something and “accepting” it.
As for the rest of your friend’s PC baloney – just as well you’ve got friends over here and you don’t need him. Friends like him, you don’t need any enemies, as the old saying goes.
By the way, if you meant “gloating” and not “floating” let me know and I’ll edit your post.
Clearly – and very sadly – Lifesitenews was wrong on this one. With bells on…
Fw: IRELAND – BOMBSHELL
Wendy please let people know, especially Irish contacts
BOMBSHELL – Ireland’s Minister for Children, Katherine Zappone is a Practicing Witch. She is also a LESBIAN with a so called wife and the Irish Prime Minister, Leo Varadker is a Practicing Homosexual – What has happened to this Beloved Catholic Country of Our Lady and the Blessed Trinity. Ireland did not OBEY POPE BENEDICT when he told the Irish Hierarchy in 2009 to make Reparation for the Sins of the Clergy. They still have not done this Public Act of Reparation.
Everyone receiving this information MUST put it up all over the Internet, Social Media about his Devious Devilish woman because the Irish Media are not highlighting this fact. We must EXPOSE this woman who is in charge of Irish Children!!! Get it out NOW as this is of the utmost importance to the outcome of the Abortion Referendum!
Shocking beyond words. The only bit in that scandalous report that brought a smile to my lips was this sentence: ‘… no wonder the Pope is hurrying to visit Ireland.’ (Signed Chloe Clueless.) To date, as far as I know, the Pope hasn’t even mentioned the abortion referendum in Ireland, not even to correct the Bishops’ disgraceful exhortation for the clergy to leave the campaigning to the laity.
Our group will mention to every single person we meet that their Children’s Minister is into witchcraft, sister of Satanism, as the report states. I think they all know that their PM is a partnered homosexual – he is also a medical doctor which makes his support for abortion thrice-fold scandalous. What a terrifying judgement HE will face when his time comes.
I would be very careful of any information emanating from Spirit Daily, either the website or the blog. It massively promotes Medjugorje and every false apparition going and a load of other bizarre stuff besides.
I am very wary of Spirit Daily but she has herself ‘outed’ on Facebook – I see Wendy has posted the Facebook page below.
Thank you for the reminder, though – other readers may not be aware of the dangers of Spirit Daily with a mea culpa from me for not mentioning it.
K ZAPPONE AND WITCHCRAFT ..CHILLING
What happened there then?
Looks like the Irish Minister for Children doesn’t want it getting too far around that she’s into witchcraft, so somebody had kindly removed the Facebook post revealing that nugget…
Good luck and bravo to Editor and those accompanying her to Ireland.
Hopefully their arrival in the run up to the vote will be akin to the 7th Cavalry arriving to save the day!
I will pray that their contribution is successful and that they receive strength and resolve amid what is bound to be a very charged atmosphere.
Your kind sentiments are much appreciated but, in the end, we weren’t any kind of Cavalry – more akin to the Keystone Cops…
Wendy, would you mind sharing this too?
Thank you, Sarah.
London Churches/Priests are Rallying to the Aid of Dear IRELAND:
Please spread the word to everyone and let us all come out in our hundreds to support these Church Events.
Pontifical Mass with Bishop Schneider – 6pm Mass followed by Talk
St Mary Moorfields -Eldon St, London EC2M 7LS – Tube, Liverpool Street.
All Night Vigil/Adoration:
St Patricks Church, Soho – Thurs 10pm to Friday 6am (Apologies for any inconvenience, but only possible if you are able to stay for the whole vigil – please email email@example.com for further details)
Church of Visitation (Pallotines), Greenford – Thurs 10pm to Friday 6am
St James, Spanish Place – Thursday 7pm to 9pm
St Cecilia & Anselm, Holborn – Thurs 7pm to 8pm with London Irish United for Life
Here is a remarkable new article by Dr. Mattei on the origins of the abortionist mentality, contraception, the behind-the-scenes maneuvering of Cdl. Suenens, etc: https://www.catholicfamilynews.org/blog/2018/5/21/the-two-revolutions-of-68
Thank you VERY much for posting that link – I’ve only skimmed it but keen to read it properly, more slowly, to take it all in – this passage jumped out at me, though:
That the very end of marriage is the propagation of the human race is attested to by the passage from Genesis 1:28: “Increase and multiply.”
The vision of the Church in the matter of birth control has always been restrictive, because Sacred Scripture says: “increase and multiply.” Don Pietro Leone rightly observes that “multiplying, in the common meaning of the term, means the multiplying of one factor to more than one, so that this excludes the maintaining of the status quo, which would be reached in producing only two children.”
That means, practically speaking, that a family must have at least three children.
A most interesting read – I’ll be back, as I say, to read that article thoroughly…
Dear friends across Europe,
There’s an urgent petition on the Avaaz Community Petition Site we thought you might be interested in:
Protecting Ireland’s ocean wealth
Sign the petition
On Wednesday, May 23rd, Senator Grace O’Sullivan will put a motion before the Irish Senate (Seanad) calling for protection of 50 percent of the territorial waters around Ireland with an ecologically a coherent network of diverse and significant marine protected areas (MPAs).
Ireland has an extraordinary large and rich marine environment; ninety percent of its territory is ocean. And despite the fact that Ireland has committed, several times, to protecting 10 percent of it by 2020, just over 2 percent are partially protected.
This is a fantastic opportunity for Ireland to demonstrate global ocean leadership. The evidence from around the world is that fully-protected MPAs increase the health of adjacent fish stocks and increase the ocean’s capacity to mitigate the effects of climate change.
PROTECT IRELANDS OCEAN WEALTH BUT NOT ITS PRE BORN TREASURES ..BIZARRE
When I’m approached by people collecting for animal charities, I always tell them that when there’s an end to the butchering of babies in their mother’s womb, I’ll start to worry about animals. I’ve been surprised at how often, relatively speaking, the collector has nodded in understanding, if perhaps not agreement!
I hope the trip goes well, and you win over some hearts and minds, and affirm the judgement of others.
I am shocked to learn the The National Union of Students, which is very pro-abortion, is subsidising fares for Irish Students who go home to vote. However, it would be good if many pro-life students took up that offer!
Thanks to everyone who has wished us well and promised prayers. We plan to work very hard but we know that we will need lots of grace if we are to do any good at all, and so your prayers are more welcome than words can say.
We’ll report back on our return, be assured.
I’ve just watched an early morning report on Sky News, on the mistreatment of pigs on a farm in England. The presenter pre-warned us of some graphic images to come. We actually SAW the cruelty being inflicted.
The pigs were kicked and had pitchforks pushed into them, they were heard yelping and obviously in pain. The presenter was appalled at this and the farm owners have said they have now terminated the employment of the four individual workers identified as having inflicted this cruelty on the animals.
The presenter, however, seemed not to notice the contradiction between her concern for animal rights and the next item on the programme, the abortion referendum in Ireland.
Perhaps if they televised an abortion, or showed graphic images of aborted babies, public opinion would change rapidly, as happens on the streets when Abort 67 comes to town.
It never ceases to astonish me that there are Catholics, including those with membership of SPUC and LIFE, who disapprove of showing these graphic images. It’s a strange version of opposition to the murder of the unborn – well, I think abortion is wrong but I don’t want to see HOW wrong!
Crackers! Anyway Sky News tend to repeat items all through the day so if you check it out, you may see the same report later, probably again, juxtaposed with their report on the Irish referendum. It’s a good example of the blindness around us that there will be few who spot the paradox of concern for animal welfare against no concern for the welfare of the innocent baby in the womb.
Strange how mothers who have given birth to several children seem to be very pro-abortion….compared to women who have never had children?
There is a mantra in Ireland right now that MEN should be denied a vote in the referendum.It should seemingly be a woman only issue…unless the woman decides to have the baby and the man is expected to provide for both and the Child Support Agency will take more than a passing interest in HIS income.
In the US right now is a growing movement called MGTOW…men going their own way. Men are starting to rebel against feminism and NOT wishing marriage or to be tied down financially, as they expect to be taken to the cleaners down the line at some point and the can instead order in what they fancy, just like pizza and walk away, spend their money on motor bikes, fast cars and easy women.
The Golden Goose is now dead it seems.
Once a few years ago I stopped at a stall in Buchanan St Glasgow where there was a chap decrying fishing..’Campaign against cruel sports’….’fish feel pain’ was the theme. Gory pictures of dead fish on the deck of a trawler….’I asked a few questions and admitted to being a fisherman myself’….the shock was palpable….’you mean to tell me you use vicious hooks?!’ was the chap’s reply…..I asked him about his views on abortion and explained the difference in the central nervous system of a fish compared to an unborn child. I asked him if HE had ever eaten a fish supper.
The answer was predictable…’it’s a wummans right!’….he then continued to harangue more passers-by.
This mantra of “a woman’s right to choose” must be challenged at every turn.
I found myself saying over and over in Ireland, that even if it were true that we have a right over our own body (questionable – I’d say we have a ‘duty of care’ to our bodies because they are the temple of the Holy Spirit and because I don’t want to die just yet 😀 ) we definitely do NOT have the right to end the life of another body, including that of the child in the womb.
Goes down like a lead balloon. Try it sometime. You can say you’re only quoting a female friend and if that doesn’t work, say you’re quoting me… 😀
I woman has the opportunity to choose when she either says “Yes” or “No” to committing a sexual act. That’s where she should exercise her choice!
When I said exactly that to the booing crowd on Henry Street, those who were goading the pro-life speaker, adding that we should get back to the days of courtship (without sexual activity), engagement to prepare for marriage, save for a home in which to raise a family, and a wedding day with a real bride instead of shop-soiled goods, you’d have thought I’d won a BAFTA award for best comedy actress of the century.
Please like and leave a supportive pro life message please
Irish Centre for Bio-Ethical Reform
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
17 APRIL 2018
BY ATTEMPTING TO CENSOR ICBR’S GRAPHIC ABORTION SIGNS WITH RAINBOW FLAGS, THEY UTILIZED AN INTERNATIONAL ICON FOR EQUALITY TO COVER UP THE GREATEST INEQUALITY OF OUR DAY.
Many LGBT+ activists employed the international icon of equality (rainbow flags) to cover the photographic evidence of abortion inequality over the past two days in Dublin — demonstrating they don’t believe in equal rights for all.
BY ATTEMPTING TO CENSOR ICBR’S GRAPHIC ABORTION SIGNS WITH RAINBOW FLAGS, THEY UTILIZED AN INTERNATIONAL ICON FOR…
Irish Centre for Bio-Ethical Reform added 6 new photos.
OUTSIDE LEINSTER HOUSE YESTERDAY — ‘COUNTER-PROTESTORS’… SCRAP THAT… ‘COVER UP & CENSORSHIP’ WITH IMPUNITY OUTSIDE THE SEAT OF DEMOCRACY.
Irish Centre for Bio-Ethical Reform
THE SEQUEL TO THE STILLORGAN SLASHER — SAME PLACE, SAME TIME.
WE WILL NOT ALLOW VIOLENCE OR THREATS OF VIOLENCE TO INTIMIDATE US INTO SURRENDERING OUR EXPRESSIVE RIGHTS — WE REACHED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TODAY.
Irish Centre for Bio-Ethical Reform
21 May at 22:28 ·
ICBR DISPLAY SLASHED WITH KNIFE THIS EVENING ON STILLORGAN OVERPASS — THE MATTER HAS BEEN REPORTED TO AN GARDA SIOCHANA AND WE INTEND TO PRESS CHARGES. IF YOU SEE THIS MAN ABOUT PLEASE CALL THE GARDAI TO REPORT HIS LOCATION.
HOMO FLAGS AND PRO LIFE POSTERS SLASHED IN IRELAND
I’m praying that the trip to Ireland goes well and that hearts are touched by the marvellous leaflet and resulting conversation about the humanity of the unborn child and his or her eternal destiny. Adding the information about practical help available was inspired.
Two reliable sources informed me that Catholic Healer Eddie Stone from Ireland
http://www.emmanuelhouse.ie/interview-with-eddie-stones/ was praying last night about the Irish Referendum and saw a vision of a baby on a pair of scales being matched in weight. He understood from this vision means that the vote is in the balance and we need to pray harder and also do fasting. He also requested this vision being circulated.
Remembering the trip to Ireland in my prayers also.
I also believe that Abortion should be called out for what it is – MURDER and facts and graphics should be used as the Pro-Abortion Brigade do not have an answer for this and may convince others of this heinous crime.
I agree with you. This example of graphics from Abort 67 is definitely NOT what the Pro-Abortion Brigade want to see, or be seen by others. Do not click on the link if you are too squeamish to look.
Pray and fast for this intention by all means, but leave alleged ‘revelations’ emanating from Emmanuel House out of the equation. It’s a massive promoter of Medjugorje, and other charismatic movement-inspired things.
Excellent point WF!….to be honest reading that stuff and the word charismatic makes my teeth fell funny !
I agree. While Eddie Stones comes across as a genuinely holy man, the fact is Emmanuel House actively promotes the Charismatic movement. I had to stop attending after I became a Traditional Catholic.
Last nights ITV News about ireland in this programme roughly half way through hear a Priest say sex abuse in the Church has changed peoples way of thinking
taking away the right to live, automatically destroys any debate on any other human right, it doesnt make any sense that it is not seen as the worst , and most basic form of discrimination. may Our Lady, angels and saints intercede for Ireland..
You are spot on. Without the right to life, every other right is meaningless.
One of the YES campaigners in Dublin on the day of the referendum barracked me, challenging my concern for children after birth, saying that I didn’t care about them being born into poverty, or homelessness or anything else. I asked her how on earth she could make such assumptions, that for all she knew I could be a city councillor working to end child poverty, blah blah but what I really should have stressed is exactly what you say – that allowing them to be born in the first place, at least gives them a fighting chance of the rest.
Note: I removed the second part of your username since it seems to be your email address. Best not to publicise that. I suggest, next time you log in (and I hope you do log in again!) that you check on your dashboard for MY PROFILE and then scroll until you see DISPLAY NAME PUBLICLY AS where you can type in the name by which you wish to be known on this blog. Either as above or if you prefer to choose a favourite saint. Then scroll down to SAVE CHANGES. Over to thee!
Remember if it’s a yes vote it’s the people who will have ratified it, in which case one could truely say their blood be upon us and on our chrildren. (The ones that will be allowed to be born that is).
I have just come across this morning this young Irish woman speaking on why to say NO to abortion. A pity I had not seen it much earlier.
All the current chap who is seemingly ‘the Pope’ had to do was issue a proclamation EXCOMMUNICATING ALL CATHOLICS WHO VOTE YES.
The Catholic Church is pathetic in this area, particularly in Ireland.
most Irish Catholics are now excommunicated. Yes, it is true that some acts incur AUTOMATIC excommunication latae sentitae, ie they are so wicked that their commission puts the sinner outside The Church. I suspect that most Catholics don’t know this, thanks to 50+ years of no catechetics
Yes, but a few years back Rome was quick to formally excommunicate 4 SSPX bishops for being TOO Catholic. The Vatican is responsible for all of this.Yet there will YES voters queuing up for communion in the hand tomorrow….it is not totally a case of the don’t know, they know full well.This is the result of 50+ years of deliberate spiritual re-engineering to coincide with social engineering aka ‘cultural Marxism’.
Yes, Miguel. The Vatican are very choosy about who they “excommunicate” (not valid in the case of SSPX bishops whose only “sin” was to have been consecrated without papal mandate. Not valid grounds)
Almost everyone who has made comment in the media to justify their Yes vote mentions children conceived through rape. If I remember correctly they used similar tactics to force a Yes for same-sex “marriages”.
I have come to the conclusion that Ireland must be full of homosexual rapists if these people are to be believed.
I remember not so long ago when Ireland boasted of the large numbers of their population, the majority even, being under 25. Those days will never return if a Yes vote wins the day. Killing babies and contraception is a sure way of creating an “ageing population”, though I prefer to call it an imbalanced population.
If there had been a No vote in Britain all those years ago Marks and Spencer and similar companies might just have been in a better position today. 9 million potential consumers and workers, not to mention their offspring, are being sadly missed now.
You reap what you sow will probably come to a few Irish minds in the not so distant future, especially when all the young voters of today are wondering why there are a shortage of carers for them.
Never mind, Marks & Spencer – Mothercare and Toys R Us would definitely have been in a better position! Talk about “biting the hand that feeds you”!
Useful idiots one and all!
As the song says…… A most distressful country has never yet been seen.
And this excuse for a Pope will wine and dine and hobnob with the Irish hoi poloi …..does anyone think he will boycott the August jamboree….doubt it…!
I do feel that it was a great mistake that the Pope agreed to go to Ireland in this of all years. Had we won the referendum, he would have been accused of coming to crow. As it is, it will be the liberal elite and their minions which will crown on endlessly about the destruction of the Church in Ireland.
Add to the mix big Fran’s ‘media sensitivity’ and he is bound to say something detrimental.
I well understand and share the disappointment of all here, and I pray that God will reward their toils as he forgives those who, knowing not what they do, or thinking to do good, have brought Ireland into line with the narcissistic morality — the fruit, in many ways, of the nichilism — prevailing throughout the Western world.
But I was never in any doubt about the outcome. I was speaking to some Irish friends a few weeks ago (prolifers all) who thought the referendum was winnable, and they sort of took umbrage when I told them that I thought they were (sadly) mistaken. (I also told them that if the nays were to have it, the powers that be would simply have the referendum repeated, EU style, until they got their desired result.)
‘No,’ they replied. ‘Look at Brexit. That was won despite the odds.’ But Brexit was basically about economics, over which opinions tend be in flux. This was about the perception (an all important term in today’s culture) that the status quo in Ireland was unjust, anti-wimmin, retrograde, too different … in a word, medieval. A country that collectively rejoiced at the election of a gay Prime Minister was never going to balk at abortion on demand. Old Ireland is no more, and it is about time we faced up to the fact.
And that brings me back to powers. The direct and deliberate taking of innocent human life is an abomination, but when it is a child in its mother’s womb, it is doubly so. We are dealing here with evil of the first rank, but which has become culturally acceptable across the West. Thus the peoples of the West are aligned with evil in a way not seen since their conversion to Christianity. This is an extremely dangerous situation, especially when one begins, as a thinking being one must, to join up the dots. The legalization and widespread cultural acceptance of abortion cannot be viewed in isolation from other trends in public morality such as the exaltation of sexual perversion, the destruction of the traditional family, the race to legalize drugs, etc. It would seem that the powers of darkness have been unleashed, but it is only apparently so.
I recall a conversation I had years ago with a saintly old priest who was also an exorcist. We were talking about phenomena such as the evil listed above, and I asked him if he thought Satan was more active in our time. He looked at me with a knowing smile, shook his head and replied, ‘No. He never sleeps. It is we who have let our guard down and are hence ever more vulnerable.’
Catholics — bishops, priests, laity — have to realize that they are in a fight to the death and have to start engaging in the spiritual combat. If we fail to realize this, we will be overcome. It is not bishops in running shorts we need. Those who attempt to pander to the secular press in this way have not only had their reward, but they are fools for continuing to think that there still exists a public square in which there is the free exchange of ideas and respect for objective truth and for those who seek after it. The public square, in many ways a Christian construct, has reverted to a battleground in which the rules of engagement are non existent.
What to do? Rosary, Holy Hour, Sacred Scripture and Catechism. What not to do? Let oneself be overpowered by the media and their fake news.
An excellent post. I couldn’t agree more.
Firstly, I agree with Therese – thank you for that excellent post.
Secondly, though, BREXIT is far from won – between them, the EU powers-that-be and the Europhiles in our Parliament are doing everything they can to engineer either a ‘deal’ that will effectively keep us in the EU OR a second referendum, dressed up as something else, the favourite slogan right now being “A People’s Vote” on the final deal. So, that’s number one. BREXIT is far from won. Personally, I’ll be amazed if we are permitted to leave. It’s probably easier to get out of North Korea than out of the EU.
Thirdly, your entire comment is of the utmost interest, but this part in particular impressed me as self-evidently true, albeit not brought to the forefront of our minds – until your excellent post!
“I recall a conversation I had years ago with a saintly old priest who was also an exorcist. We were talking about phenomena such as the evil listed above, and I asked him if he thought Satan was more active in our time. He looked at me with a knowing smile, shook his head and replied, ‘No. He never sleeps. It is we who have let our guard down and are hence ever more vulnerable.’”
Absolutely crystal clear – how very true. The Devil never sleeps, but we have definitely let down our guard. Our spiritual resources have been depleted thanks – in no small measure – to the liturgical revolution following Vatican II, the elevation of the “lay ministry” with the corresponding dilution of the ordained and religious life, not to mention the liberal dominance in diocesan offices and Catholic schools with the resulting ignorance, religious illiteracy emanating from Catholic institutions, including seminaries.
Yes, the Devil is having a field day, not because he’s more active but because, as your exorcist friend asserts, we have let down our guard and are now vulnerable to the diabolical influences around us.
I agree, we must redouble our spiritual efforts.
Ireland collapses in crime with the rest!…
Shocking news – I will never forget the horror of waking up to the exit polls on Saturday morning. Chilling. A once-great Catholic nation has sold its soul to the Devil.
I feel for you and for everyone else who loves Ireland.
Chilling is the word. As I said above, I never thought the referendum was winnable, but I did not think that consciences in Ireland had been eroded to this degree.
Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near”. (Luke 21:28)
A Day of Infamy.
What a dark day for Ireland and indeed the whole world.
Looking for inspiration after such a painful defeat I came across the beatitudes and thought they were appropriate.
“Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called children of God.
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you”.
Thank you for that spiritual food, much needed. We DO need to remember that God is above it all, that Christ has promised that the gates of Hell will not prevail. He didn’t promise that those gates would not shake the Church to its very foundations, but we must take hope in His infallible promise that they will not prevail. Deo gratias!
Let us spare a thought for Fr. McVeigh of Clogherhead on Co. Louth who preached an anti-abortion sermon at a First Communion Mass and saw ⅔rds of the congregation walk out in protest.
He is a brave man, and will no doubt be receiving a lot of stick, if not a few words of “fraternal guidance” from his bishop.
May Our Lady strengthen him for his bravery.
And will all the Irish Catholics who voted yes yesterday, who committed a mortal sin, present themselves tomorrow for their sacrilegious communion, thus compounding their sin,whilst their priest says not a jot ?
Most of them won’t go to Mass tomorrow !
But if you read this, they can get a Plenary Indulgence if they turn up to see El Papa in August.
Anybody seen this?
But they have still got to be truly repentant and go to Confession if they want an indulgence. I very much doubt that many in Ireland even believe in them these days!
The Homily at a First Holy Communion Mass should surely be addressed primarily to the children, and be based on The Eucharist. I would hope such children would not know about abortion, as sex lessons at that age would surely be unthinkable.
It is admirable that a priest would address the issue of abortion, but not at such a Mass. Even those who were to vote no would surely be offended at such at such a talk at such a Mass.
How exactly did he once have Gay Porn on a USB?
God bless Fr McVeigh. If only we had more like him.
I have to be honest and say that – assuming the report is accurate – the priest has been imprudent in speaking so explicitly at a First Communion Mass. I did not mince my words when speaking to an SSPX priest some time ago, because he spoke (aiming to correct impure dressing) of parents encouraging their daughters to dress to look “sexy”. Hearing that word in the pulpit is appalling and I later explained to him that there were parents in front of him who were home-schooling in order to avoid their children hearing such talk in the classroom – hearing it from the pulpit, in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament, with children present, was unthinkable. He humbly took the point and I’ve not heard anything similar from any SSPX priest since.
So, while I do understand that the priest felt he had to exhort the adults to vote NO in the referendum on that final day – and he was right to do that – he should have kept that part of his talk short and understandable ONLY to the adults. Something along the lines of how today is a very important day for the children here, and we might remember to pray for all children, and for mums and dads to vote to protect children at risk in today’s referendum. Something like that which would be understood only by the adults. To give a graphic description of the unborn child in that setting, was quite wrong.
Clearly, he was well-intentioned so yes, we ought to pray that he is not made to suffer unduly for his lack of prudence on this occasion.
Lament For Erin.
Darkness has descended on the Emerald Isle,
Where saints and scholars through the ages toiled.
The Yoke that was sweet, was dragged through the mud,
And furrowed the ground for innocent blood.
Erin, Erin, what have you done?,
Crucified anew both Mother and Son.
Coveted the whisperings of the father of lies,
Sacrificed to him your girls and boys.
Sorrow, Sorrow, Sorrow, untold,
Light has receded, nighttime unfolds.
Echos resound from silent screams,
Across her mountains,valleys, and streams.
Woe, woe, woe is to thee,
Yes to slavery, no to be free.
The foul deed is done, proud is the boast,
No room for Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
To those who stood tall, Heaven be your bed,
You’ll purify the soil with the tears that you shed.
We still have our Queen, ne’er to depart,
As we await the triumph of Her Immaculate Heart.
Thank you Attorno. How beautifully you have written about Ireland’s shameful poll result. I too remember when Ireland was a land of saints and scholars but now it has displayed just how far it has fallen from those days. I have suspected for some time now that this was the way it was going and my suspicions have been proven correct.
Well, I arrived back from Dublin late last night. What an experience it was on the streets!
We began the day praying a public Rosary in O’Connell Street before heading off to leaflet and speak to the locals. Although there were a few exceptions, the predominate attitude was one of apathy and passive aggression. Many just didn’t want to know.
However, we did experience intimidation and confrontational aggression. One woman shouted, “Scrap the 8th amendment!” in my face, one tried to knock the leaflets out of my hands and a young gentleman made a “cut throat” hand signal towards me. The most unsavoury incident I experienced was a gentleman, and I use that term loosely, who approached me on Henry Street. He asked where I came from before adding, “Do you not have enough problems in Scotland? Why are you here?” I told him I was there because I cared about unborn Irish babies. I was about to tell him that I was the father to five children and had seen scans of babies under 12 weeks, but he butted in, telling me to “F*** off back to Scotland!” I smiled and said, “Thanks for your time, Sir.” However, he clearly wanted an angry reaction from me and continued to scream, “F*** off!”
Having said that, we did meet some charming people who thanked us profusely for coming. I received some pats on the back and a lot of people told me they had already voted, “No”.
So, the exit polls came as no surprise. Ireland has well and truly lost the Faith. I have to say that I have now well and truly changed my opinion of “the friendly Irish”. The vast majority I experienced were anything but friendly!
I know the editor will be only later to post her own update.
Petrus, I once saw a woman try to spit on pro life people in a prayer chain from her expensive flashy car when she stopped at a set of traffic lights in Gt Western Rd a few years back, such is the anger from the defenders of the indefensible.
It is Satanic and Demonic….meanwhile the Irish Prime minister is gloating and crowing.
That reminds me of one of our team, who once told me about an occasion when she was standing with a pro-life group outside Glasgow Royal Infirmary praying the rosary; a car drew up and a man shouted “Do you people have nothing better to do with your time?” Ellen replied: “No” indicating that there was nothing more important than to pray for the sparing of unborn lives.
Game, set and match!
I am sorry the referendum result did not reward the fine efforts of you and the other CT team who went over to help the pro-life cause.
It was a noble and brave thing to do, in what was always going to be a hostile environment.
Everyone who worked to defend the unborn children of Ireland are heroes, even despite the lamentable result of the vote.
Just to save me phoning to complain to the Equality Commission, did you mean “heroes and heroines”? 😀
God bless you for standing up for the defenceless unborn.
“God bless you Petrus…”
No offence pet. God bless you all who stood up for the defenceless little ones. I May have missed all your names, but God hasn’t.
I know that, of course – I was just kidding!
I think the fall of Ireland to the Grim Reaper is comparable to the fall of the Eldest Daughter of the Church in 1789. It would appear that the Druids, so soundly defeated by St. Patrick so long ago, have made a convincing comeback – as evidenced by this victory for the renewal of their legalized sacrificing of children.
Why did this happen? Because the Church was neither militant nor vigilant, but effeminate. I also blame our disgusting caricature of a Pope, Francis, who could have stepped in but instead engaged in yet another lame publicity stunt with a woman who was allegedly considering an abortion. I’m sure one of his “advisers” (that is, eunuch sycophants) told him that the vote was already lost and that he shouldn’t risk his personal popularity and political prestige by getting involved.
As if he had any popularity or prestige….
As one of our local Lutheran churches posted on their sign, after the election of the Communist/Muslim/ not born in America Barack Hussein Obama in 2008, “The people have spoken; now God will speak.”
“The people have spoken; now God will speak.”
Love it! That’s a brilliantly succinct answer to the “democracy is all-important” mantra. Love it!
As for Pope Francis – what on EARTH is he going to talk about when he visits Ireland in August for the World Meeting of Families? Not the family, that’s for sure!
Well Petrus thank you and all those who went for your Sterling efforts. What a sad day for Ireland. I briefly put my head over the parapet to remonstrate with a Belfast family member by marriage who was posting on social media that she supported the yes vote. I was quite shocked by the very nasty response I got from some US academic who accused me of inaccuracies, hyperbole and lies when I described the results of the English abortion on demand situation. Truly the devil is enjoying this day. May Our Blessed Lady intercede for Ireland.
I was quite shocked by the very nasty response I got from some US academic
…”the worst are full of passionate intensity…”
The viciousness of the pro-abortionists is stark. In itself, it is evidence of the diabolical roots of the whole anti-life movement.
What a sad day for Ireland – as you say.
It`s funny how it was a hassle for them to come to the UK for an abortion but never a problem to come looking for work or to support an English football team.
That’s another thing – I repeatedly challenged the alleged numbers of those coming to the UK for abortions. How would that work, since women from the Republic would not, surely, be covered financially to receive medical interventions from our NHS – unless their membership of the EU makes such provision. Not sure, but – in any case – I question the “thousands” allegedly coming over here on a regular basis.
Attono, As John Rayner says, you have indeed written beautifully about Irelands shameful poll result.
The 25th May, 2018. A sad day for the once land of saints and scholars. It makes me wonder why the Irish Government picked the month of May in particular to hold this referendum. May, is the month after all dedicated to Our Lady herself. It is as though it were an attack against the Divine motherhood of Our Lady.
It seems the strange notion of reproductive rights won the day. The child has no rights.
Am I imagining that only in the last few weeks, in England, if not the UK as a whole, women who want to become pregnant, or are pregnant, were advised not to use a particular drug to treat epilepsy as it would harm the unborn child? How can such a contradiction exist, that the Government and NICE can advise woman not to use a particular drug for an actual medical condition as it will harm her unborn baby, but the same people can say that in other circumstances, when no medical exists, the woman has rights “over her own body” and the life, and rights, of a child.
However, the fact that “progressive, modern Ireland” will, in general, have an upper limit of 12 weeks for abortion, will our politicians reduce the upper limit here, if they do not have the moral fibre, and intelligence, to abolish this so called right altogether?
Further, we live in a sometimes Nanny State that actually warns drug addicts if there is a bad batch of a drug being illegally sold on the streets, why then can’t they issue Human Rights Notices for each and every unborn child?
Theresa, thanks to yourself and John for your kind words. What a despicable vote. There can be no excuse for those who voted for this. All the information was there, and people voted with their eyes wide open. Friday 25th of May was D-Day for the Irish. They could have shown the two fingers to satan and all his minions but they chose instead to spit into the face of Jesus and His Blessed Mother.Those who voted yes are not the true Irish, they are imposters and traitors.The true Irish are like those who refuse to follow the New Church, but hold fast with every fibre of their being to all that was dear to their forebears, the faith of our fathers. The gloating around Dublin Castle, The national media, the boasting and backclapping of the putrid policital elite encouraged by thousands of delusional souls is proof positive that ireland has apostatized. Yes indeed, the die is cast, the Irish who voted yes have chosen their bed, and unless they repent and do penance, one that will be very hot indeed.
What a really dismal result on a very bleak day for Ireland, one which will live in infamy.
I suspected the pro-abortion side would win, but only narrowly – I am genuinely shocked to see what is likely a landslide for repeal. Not least because of the good work done by so many selfless pro-life people, including the visiting Catholic Truth team.
I followed the campaigns quite closely and it was always notable how fact-based and humane the pro-life arguments were. In contrast, the repeal side only had empty slogans, lies, self-righteousness and bitter contempt for pro-lifers. And, of course, nowhere did they ever touch on the reality of what they advocated.
Ireland will soon rue the day as in addition to the death-toll, they will end up with demographic problems and an ageing population. This will exacerbate the effect of losing young people who seek work abroad. Poorly managed mass immigration and EU quotas of ISIS fighters will be the patchwork answer, as per elsewhere.
And while the main tragedy is the devaluing of life and large forthcoming loss of life, we are also reminded of the tragedy of the novus ordo Church. A hopeless, incompetent organisation which – despite enjoying a large stake in the Irish education system – has failed to instill basic values, such as respect for life and knowing what a marriage is, into a majority of the populace.
To add insult to injury, television news channels showing women cheering and partying and laughing and celebrating the Victory.
I know this is going to sound a bit perverse, but I disagree with your characterization of the Novus Ordo Church as a “hopeless, incompetent organisation.”
On the contrary, when one considers that the mission of the Novus Ordo Church is to replace the true Faith with a harmless, weaponless, inoffensive pastiche of secularized, indifferentist bromides, presided over by apostate clergy from the top down, completely acceptable to the world, I’d say the Novus Ordo Church has been stunningly effective.
The ex-Communist Bella Dodd predicted in the early 1950s that in a few years we would not recognize the Catholic Church, and even sketched, in the same period, the broad outlines of the Vatican II agenda through her direct knowledge of and interaction with embedded Communist Cardinals.
So I say again, the plan has been quite successful.
What is true is that the contemporary mainstream Church has almost nothing prophetic to say on the great issues of her day. This is sign surely that there is something very far wrong.
There is a lot of truth in what you say.
At the end of the day, the Irish have rejected compassion in favour of human sacrifice on the altars of bloated egos. And it will be to their general detriment as it has been in the UK. Their culture will be coarser as their hearts harden in order not to face up to what they have done. They had a choice and they chose evil. The consequences of this will require much sedation in terms of alcohol and drugs.
The Celtic tiger thinks that it has found its way in the world, but it is actually the reverse. It is the world which has found its way into the hearts of so many of the Irish.
The irony of the Papal visit to Eire in August is to be called ‘The World Meeting of Families’….so exactly what is this snake oil salesman/charlatan posing as ‘The Pope’ going to say?….shake hands and embrace the Irish prime minister (a la Emma Bonnino)…and before anyone starts the ‘please have respect for the office of the Pope’…..get a grip on the reality about him….the POPE who said ‘stop obsessing about abortion’!….this is as good as it gets folks.
The news story where I first saw the results in Ireland was posited next to an article about how the popularity of the name ‘Muhammad’ in Europe is an element of jihad – i.e. Jihadists exhort European Muslims to “breed” and “conquer” with numbers. Two-thirds of the Irish who voted appear to have gotten that memo.
Today, Ireland is in mourning!
Very telling perspective on this disaster: https://torontocatholicwitness.blogspot.ca/2018/05/ireland-chooses-death.html
There are many wonderful comments on here thank you everyone ….we must get too down because who knows this vote may have been contaminated with fraud and with so many visitors to Ireland who could keep count of the vote properly …..Their celebrations were like a bacchanalian orgy but what a gross and despicable prize they have precious preborns killed and wounded mentally and physically tortured women /girls …Led into this dreadful pit by appalling leaders so tragic and sad when the reality hits them it will hit hard
My daughter remarked how dreadful this man Simon Harris hes Minister for Health
Please read this D M article and comments
Lost for words !
Seems according to TV News channels just 5 minutes ago, that the debate on Northern Ireland is about to take off as early as this coming Tuesday…phrases being bandied about that the NI Abortion situation is ‘unsustainable’….shadow Health Secretary….blah blah…and old ‘has beens’ like Ian Duncan Smith sticking his nose in.
All got plenty to say.
This is the acid test coming up…UK will have to take on their buddies who are propping up the Theresa May entourage…..a week is a long time in politics folks.
Efforts to put the reform into law will begin on Tuesday
UK Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has congratulated those who took part in the campaign and hails it a “fantastic victory for women’s rights”.
Great news that the Republic of Ireland has voted to #Repealthe8th to support a woman’s right to choose.
Congratulations to everyone who has taken part in this inspiring campaign and to everyone who travelled home to vote. A fantastic victory for women’s rights.
6:21 PM – May 26, 2018
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This is the full run-down of how Ireland voted:
Yes – 66.40%
No – 33.60%
Percentage turnout: 64.13%
Invalid ballot papers: 6,042
Valid poll: 2,153,613
Votes in favour: 1,429,981
Votes against: 723,632
I suspect no party led by Mr Corbyn will be elected. However, the pressure on The Government to follow Ireland is coming from leading Conservative women.
How do you mean “to follow Ireland”? Isn’t abortion already legal in the UK? And, up to birth in the case of foetal abnormalities.
Apologies, Helen. The pressure to implement similar provision in the North of Ireland, based on the Irish result, is coming NOT from Jeremy Corbyn, but leading Conservative women.
Petrus Regnat…can you be specific as to which Conservative women? I reckon UK will be on a collision course with NI, as Arlene Foster’s group is a supply and endorse party, holding May’s government together…by trying to persuade them to adopt and be led by example by the Eire republic will be like a red rag to a bull.
The irony is that it appears to be Non Catholic Northern Ireland people who are holding the fort !!
If the UK wind up the NI people on this particular issue,it will probably cause Mrs May to get the grand order of the boot.
St Miguel’ may I suggest you just follow the news for the cast list of Tory women.
Gotcha, same old retinue of parliamentarians…!
Its a shame we do not have a Catholic Church Leader who will speak out against these Conservative Women etc in this Country. if we could make Jacob Rees-Mogg Cardinal of England and Wales, this would be a start as we don’t have a Catholic Cardinal, only a spineless man dressed as a Cardinal with secular views.
And not a cheep from NIchols, c’est la vie.
It is just so sickening to see the gloating and celebrating in Dublin. Have they lost all sight of moral truth. This is the death of the innocent unborn not freedom for women. That together with the revolting gay pride weekend in Birmingham shows just how far this nation has fallen. To see half naked, face painted men strutting around being cheered at every corner is truly diablolical.
Yes, the gloating just sickened me, too, and I will always think of it when I hear this bogus claim that women “agonise” over an abortion. That’s not how it looks to me.
It is Elizabeth..and have a dekko at these two articles….1) May congratulating the Yes voters and b) Too scared to have a vote and bypass Stormont as she knows the NI people can sink her.
and then the rank hypocrisy of having to endorse the status quo in NI.
But what did you expect from that quarter? May hasn’t got a conservative bone in her body. For her and her ilk, politics is essentially an exercise in self-projection, and everything she says or does is subordinated to this.
I am only rather sad that Rees-Mogg keeps on singing her praises.
It is pure showbiz..reminds me of the KIngs theatre pantomimes, yah booh, hiss, he’s behind you, WHO, – Gove! It’s an illusion of care for the populace.At the end of Mother Goose, all the cast come on and hold hands for a bow. Watch the ‘enemies’ walk in to the Commons in two separate rows, laughing and joking together…they are ALL laughing all the way to the bank and we the MUGS are paying for it, whilst we think we are voters in a democracy…Brexit being the current worked example.
I think Theresa May has “sold her soul” as the price of political advancement.
I recall her looking very uncomfortable, some years ago, on an edition of BBC’s Question Time, when, as a member of the panel, she was trying to answer a question about homosexual unions without betraying her then beliefs that these are immoral. She has now totally capitulated, and I suspect the same is true of her attitude to abortion.
Closing his report on the referendum result for Sky News late last night, their Dublin Correspondent, Darren McCaffrey, listed the changes that have come about in Ireland in recent years, describing them as “social” changes: acceptance of contraception, divorce, same-sex ‘marriage’ and now abortion in this once ‘socially conservative’ country, concluding: “The place we have always known as ‘Catholic Ireland’ has been consigned to history.”
Having campaigned for a NO vote on Thursday last and Friday, the day of the referendum, I cannot quibble with that. I would only question the term ‘social’ change and ‘socially conservative’ because I think we ought to call a spade a spade – the changes which have taken place in Ireland are a change from a country built on God’s moral law, which, in its Constitution, pledged to refer to the Most Holy Trinity, as its final end, all the actions of both men and States, to a country which has sold its soul to the Devil. When I said as much to a bunch of lawyers in O’Connell Street, campaigning for the YES vote, one of them laughed and said that was fine since she didn’t believe in the Devil anyway – making my point for me; THAT is precisely when he’s at his most successful. I saw a flicker of annoyance cross her face at that point. After all, the last thing a ‘useful idiot’ wants to believe is that she IS a ‘useful idiot’. Especially one with a Law Degree…
Opening lines from the Irish Constitution:
In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,
We, the people of Éire,
Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,
Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation,
And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,
Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution.
The above-mentioned lawyers were doing their utmost to get rid of me, a key argument being, mystifyingly, that we, in the UK ‘don’t have a Constitution while they do…’ They seemed not to understand the difference between an unwritten and a written Constitution, and were clearly unfazed at the prospect of overturning the pledge made in the name of the Most Holy Trinity, in order to remove the right to life of the unborn child written into their Constitution.
Our small group first entered the fray last Thursday morning, when we prayed our public rosary outside of one of the hotels on O’Connell Street Upper. We had brought small Scottish flags with us, which I found useful when approaching people in the street. The ‘surprise’ element did help. There were loads of visitors from foreign parts in the city during the two days of our work, and they were – almost to a man and woman – sympathetic to the NO vote, but obviously not eligible to vote. Whether or not that was “easy for them to say” I’ll never know, of course, but certainly in one or two brief exchanges with them, I had the sense of more sympathy for the unborn child from Americans, Canadians and Eastern Europeans (although not Italians or Latin Americans), than that displayed by the native Irish.
The native Irish were, almost 100%, hostile, and were dreadfully rude-through-to-downright-nasty so that now I have made my own pledge which is never EVER to return to Ireland – I will not put a penny into their economy, EVER.
After we prayed our public rosary both days standing in a small circle, we would split up and approach people. The younger members of our group simply said straight that they had come over from Scotland to hand out some leaflets to encourage everyone to vote NO in the referendum. They received abuse, along the lines of “get back to Scotland” and “Vote YES you prick!” and noted that our leaflets were mostly glanced at, screwed up and thrown either back at them or into the nearest bin. Charming. “When Irish Eyes Are Smiling”? When DO they smile?
For my part, after a few such unpleasant responses, I tried a bit of humour, which worked with some but not others. I held my flag in the left hand, over the shoulder, also clutching the leaflets, which left my right hand free to offer one to passers-by. I soon resorted to humour to offset the nastiness: “Hi, could I have a quick word, as we’ve come over from Scotland in the hope of meeting some of these friendly Irish we keep hearing about, but so far we’ve not had much success…”
Reactions were generally pleasant enough, some would say, “It’s this referendum, it’s caused so much division” but then, often, when they realised I was on the NO side, they’d shake heads, hold up hands in “stay away from me” fashion and move on, often shouting that they were voting YES.
It was clear after a couple of hours on the streets last Thursday, that it was a lost cause. The only people I met who were definitely going to vote NO, were a few men (generally more courteous, and sympathetic to the unborn child, but not all) and a couple of women – one of whom was distressed because her two daughters were going to vote YES) and some young workers from oversees, employed in the local catering industry, who were not eligible to vote in Ireland. One of those told me about her cousin who had been a student at an Irish university, had commented on social media that she did not approve of same-sex “marriage”, and following a vicious furore where she was pilloried by staff and students alike, ended up moving to continental Europe to finish her studies. All very tolerant… NOT. One young man studied our leaflet, and looked nervously over at a group of YES campaigners, whom I suspect he knew, because he lowered his voice and said not to tell anyone but he planned to vote NO. He added that saying you might vote NO to a YES campaigner got your head chopped off.
One pro-lifer stood in the middle of Henry Street, off O’Connell Street, with a huge poster and a microphone, addressing the passers-by and a crowd would gather to listen and heckle him. He was terrific. He remained calm and gave simple facts in response to the propaganda. YES voters harangued him and he kept his cool. They misquoted him and some of us would intervene to point out that he had NOT said this or that, and it became quite heated a times. It was in one of these sessions that a particularly nasty man confronted me. Tell you what, he could use a visit to the dentist; either that or someone should tell him to add a spoon-full of toothpaste to his next bar of chocolate… His rage was terrifying to those who terrify easily. He came to within an inch of hitting me, which is when my fascination with his crooked and very yellow teeth ended, and I gave up trying to reason with him. He screamed instructions on how, in his view, I could put my flag to good use, adding that I should get back to Scotland because I was not welcome in Ireland, especially since we were now leaving the EU! Laugh? I thought I’d never start. Especially when he switched tack from defending the woman’s sacrosanct ‘right to choose’ to savaging the Catholic Church. Sounded like he’s been a victim of every abusing priest and nun in the country.
As our bloggers and readers will not be surprised to hear, the abuse scandals were a recurring theme throughout our two days over there. On one occasion, when a very pleasant and friendly YES voter came alongside me and noted my flag (a good conversation starter, as I’ve indicated above) I tried to respond to her remarks about the Church/abuse scandals, pointing out that, in fact, the acceptance of homosexually inclined men into the seminaries was in no small way partly to blame for these attacks (men on boys, not exactly the stuff of PhD studies) – she went crazy! The plastic smile which had remained firm through every inch of our conversation so far, disappeared like the proverbial snow in summer and I was labelled “hate-filled” and “lacking compassion” and “bigoted” – I stopped listening after that and said I would let her go, since she was very kind to have approached me and proven me wrong about there being no friendly Irish around, but it is clear that there is a very different atmosphere now, so let’s leave it there. A few minutes later I saw her speaking to another woman and heard “Here she is, she’s coming now…” to which I responded “Yes, here’s that bad Scotswoman, here to try to save babies’ lives – how bad is THAT?!” Comically, by way of convincing me that she had no personal agenda against the Church, she told me that she had been raised a Catholic and that her mother is Latin American. I had to fight hard to resist saying “So’s the Pope – Latin American I mean not Catholic” and I’m feeling justifiably proud of myself that I managed to resist the temptation.
My “I’m looking for friendly Irish” seemed to work on three young men breakfasting in a café on O’Connell Street on the Friday morning until they realised I was campaigning for the NO vote and I was told in no uncertain terms, to leave: “F off.” to be precise. “Well, charming, right enough”, I said, “and so much for your YES vote because you “respect” women!” Truly, hilarious. I got another “F off” for my cheek.
However, it wasn’t all bad on the streets. On our first day, Thursday, our young lads told me that one of the Irish NO campaigners had told him that three men were down looking for “the Scottish group” and just as they were telling me that, a gentleman appeared out of nowhere, holding two copies of our leaflet printed on A4 in colour, which, he said, he had printed off from our blog, and maybe we could use if some people required bigger print – very kind and thoughtful. He (Paul) is a reader of our blog and had read on this thread that we were going over to support the NO vote, so he went looking for us in town. What a small world, right enough. So, thank you Paul!
One more thing about Paul. He told me that he used to blog here as Tirrey, so I’ve just checked and found some of his comments… Terrific! Tirrey – come back! We need you! Your comments were excellent – I note that you were contributing to our discussion on the same-sex “marriage” vote in Ireland. so let’s hear your thoughts on this latest horrendous scandal. It was great to meet you and I only wish we’d had longer to talk. Took me a while to realise that, humanly speaking, we were engaged in a lost cause, or I wouldn’t have been itching to get back to work. God bless you, though, for your charity in seeking us out to encourage us.
One other pleasant part of our trip was when one of our Irish priest readers kindly treated us to a meal while we were over there and assured us that he was definitely voting NO, and had preached the NO message – so that’s something! Deo gratias!
I think I’ve covered enough of our visit for readers to get a flavour of the horror of it. I’m from an Irish background myself, as I’ve said many times on this blog, so I never thought I would ever say that I don’t want to set foot in Ireland again. It’s no different from the UK or any other secular country.
The lack of critical thinking, the acceptance of slogans as a form or argument, was tragic to behold. As a retired teacher, I found myself telling young people, including schoolgirls, who insisted that their mind was made up, no need to read our leaflet, you won’t change my mind etc, that it shocked me to hear that any young person could have such a closed mind. In a twist of irony, which I think passed them by, I added that, obviously, we had to have settled opinions early on in our lives about certain key issues, such as… er… murder, for example, but otherwise, we ought to want to think about issues from every angle and with as much information at our fingertips as possible. Issues like the alleged “woman’s right to choose…” need to be explored thoroughly. They were all very practised with the propaganda piece “don’t you TRUST women?” to which I quickly learned to reply “well, no!” and after their immediate shock-horror response, pointed out that I am a woman, that I wouldn’t trust myself to do the right thing if there were a law in place to allow me to take the easy way out…
Inevitably, that led to cries that it wasn’t easy, that women agonised over the decision to abort, to which I gave my standard reaction: why? Why on EARTH would anyone agonise over the decision, if it’s something regarded as a good, something which is a right? Something legal… What’s to agonise over?”
So, you see, folks, my decision never to set foot in Ireland again (I suppose I need to except essential journeys such as funerals) is unlikely to be hotly contested by the natives who are perhaps even now seeking a ban on me ever re-entering the country – even for funerals!
I would add only one thing; I approached a gentleman on Henry Street, who was holding a sign indicating the services of “An Irish Fortune-Teller” opposite. I pointed out that if Ireland voted YES in the referendum next day, they wouldn’t need a fortune-teller to prophesy that Ireland was going to go right down the tube.” It’s the way I tell ’em…
I must finish now, but not without thanking our small group, comprising some young lads and one slightly older Petrus who sacrificed his bank holiday to help us battle this terrible evil, now about to be enshrined in Irish law.
Our Lady, Queen of Ireland, St Patrick, and all the Irish saints, pray for us!
Thank You for your efforts in Ireland. However, media coverage looked at only in terms of bogus Human Rights, Reproductive Rights, and the right of a woman to choose. Baby didn’t get a look in.
Spot on, Petrus Regnat.
There were YES and NO posters everywhere. ALL of the YES posters referred to the “woman’s right to choose” in some way shape or form whereas the NO posters identified both the woman and baby as in need of compassion.
Even when they argued that it was a difficult choice for any woman, the YES supporters could not explain why. They NEVER used the word “child” or “baby”. I had to say, let me explain why they agonise over it, it’s because they know perfectly well that it is a human being and that they are going to end his/her life. Silence … before another round of accusations about my lack of compassion etc.
How about this faded ‘Has Been’ Vince Cable trying to jump start this caper!
Bypass Stormont, impose UK law and make NI the same as their more enlightened Southern Ireland neighbours,as they are so incompetent and backward that they have to be dragged in to the modern world…..all hell will break out.
So well done Patricia and your brave companions ..it reads like a macabre horror story and truly it is…..oh dear how painful to read and digest so much hatred …..truly horrific but thank you so very much xxxxx
God Bless you for your efforts Editor. Ireland is nothing like I remember.On a point of principle, I too will never set foot in that country again.
Thank you. It’s very sad to have no desire ever to return to that once-great Catholic country, but the whole experience this time was dreadful.
For me, the most edifying part of our trip was the commitment of the two young Catholic boys who are both extremely zealous. If only we had more like them!
Thank you for all your hard work. I’m sorry that you don’t want to set foot in Ireland again. I have to say that I don’t feel like living here myself any more. We’ll have to work hard now to reinvigorate the Church here so that you’ll feel more comfortable about coming back. 🙂 This result has given some of us a kick up the backside. Battle lines have been drawn and gauntlets thrown down. Let the next fight commence!
This passage from Matthew 12 seems to be tailor-made for Ireland:
And when an unclean spirit is gone out of a man he walketh through dry places seeking rest, and findeth none.  Then he saith: I will return into my house from whence I came out. And coming he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.  Then he goeth, and taketh with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is made worse than the first. So shall it be also to this wicked generation.
St. Patrick exorcised Ireland once, but obviously the unclean spirits have returned with a vengeance.
“With a vengeance” is right. Legend has it, too, that St Patrick cast out the snakes from Ireland – we need him to come back and try again!
The snakes are now in the Dail and the ballot box!
They are also wearing mitres!
I agree. I wonder how hard the Bishops worked to “Save the Eighth”?
They didn’t work hard at all, but now a couple of them have come out of the woodwork to say how sorry they are that abortion is now being legalised. Shame on them.
I agree. Shame on them indeed. Being sorry now that abortion is being legalised is far too late. As you say, shame on them.
Perhaps they need to be reminded of the four last things,
death, judgement, heaven or hell. We all face death, and die at some point. Now is the time for repentance and reparation.
Pity us poor believing Catholics who have to live here! It’s not all bad. The problem is that reasoned, logical debate is no longer permitted in this country. Moral issues are argued from an emotional perspective only. There are a lot of good people, Catholic and otherwise – you don’t hear them because they are silenced in the media and public forum. As I said, there are believing Catholics here. We attend the SSPX and ICKSP. It’s a pity we won’t be seeing you again but at least now you know his difficult it is to be an Irish Catholic. No excuse I know, but it’s difficult to live with wicked people. We were all very upset after Mass.
Well, as for all these wonderful believing Catholics, including priests, during our entire two days on the main streets of Dublin, I didn’t meet one. Not one with a NO badge, apart from the obviously pro-life people wearing their uniform jumpers. So, excuse my cynicism – I am aware that there would have been (I hope) people going home to home, but it’s something of a stretch that we didn’t see even one non-official pro-lifer on the main street of Dublin on the day before the referendum and on the day of the referendum itself.
I find myself saying, with increasing frequency, that being a “traditional” Catholic is about a lot more than attending a TLM. Indeed, just before I left for Ireland, I received a letter from a gentleman who attends the SSPX Masses, saying precisely that. I’ll be publishing extracts from it in the next newsletter., because, for far too long, the idea that as long as traditional priests provide the traditional sacraments, all is well, has been allowed free rein. No, all is NOT well. A mother pointed out to a Society priest only today that the Catholic Truth trip to Ireland meant that her young sons had some experience of the practical apostolate. Whereas, I put it to you, they should be seeing plenty of examples of the lay apostolate – especially in these “traditional” chapels.
Anyway, you know you can come here, if you want to see us again! Scotland welcomes you!
Spot on! The SSPX chapel in Glasgow (and Edinburgh) should be a powerhouse of Catholic Action. Sadly, that’s not the case. So-called Traditional Catholics can be just as apathetic as Modernists.
Spiritus, you’re lucky you can get to a good TLM. I live near Knock and the monthly TLM in Knock is very impoverished. I went on a pilgrimage to Lisieux with Canon Leboqc and was very moved by the liturgy, reverence and so on. I wish we lived nearer to Limerick so we could fulfil our Sunday obligation there. I noticed the SSPX contingent on the last Dublin rally I went on but I didn’t get a chance to talk to them. Maybe you were there? I bumped into Canon Leboqc there too. It was good to see so many priests and religious there supporting the pro-life cause.
Our parish is not too bad as Novus Ordo parishes go but we’re worried that things are going downhill. I found out last week that some of the parish council and Eucharistic ministers are yes-voters. Mass was very depressing as a result. I would go so far as to say that I am grieving at the moment. Grieving the loss of the 8th but also the loss of faith.
There is Mass in Corpus Christi church in Athlone every Sunday at 10am. The SSPX also have Sunday Masses at their chapel in Dun Laoghaire. Hopefully you would be in a position to attend, even if only occasionally. I don’t know whether or not you would be depending on public transport, getting to Mass might be difficult, if so.
Thank you, Spiritus. I think the closest regular one for us is in Galway on the Claddagh. We went a few times but we even find that too far these days; we’re not good travelers. Plus, our car is an old banger and we don’t trust it. We’re hoping to move in the next year or two. Our top priority will be access to a reverent and orthodox Mass.
Thank you, Editor and your team, for your heroic efforts. How sad, how very, very sad, that Ireland has come to this! A hedonistic society.
As a blogger already said: Luke 21: 18 and onwards.
I second your congratulations to the team for their efforts. We can only hope and pray that many graces will flow from those efforts, maybe even to a woman contemplating abortion.
Thank you Helen, and Lily, for your kind charity. If only the outcome had been different.
Thank you, too, for reminding us of the need to stand firm (Luke 21:18ff)
Thanks to Editor and Petrus,for trying so hard.There was also an American,Father and Son team.It was difficult to talk to the “Yes” campaigners.They also worded this to keep “Yes”from the previous referendum,probably seen as positive.I had a brief debate with a woman from Lawyers for Choice.I said that the choice argument was bogus,as the one most affected,had no choice.She said that wasn’t true.I asked why.She changed direction,to tell me that The Netherlands had only a 30% Abortion rate.I said that there wasn’t any acceptable level of Abortion.End of debate.
I mostly went after them,and found them unable to defend their position.
As Editor mentioned slogans,this tallies with Le Bons assessment of mobs,in The Crowd,much quoted by Ann Coulter,in Demonic.
Thank you for coming on here! And, of course, for seeking us out last Thursday. Such a pleasant surprise!
That must have been the group of lawyers who made a point of telling me that they were lawyers. Cheeky bunch.
Your challenging of the term ‘choice’ is spot on – there’s no choice for the poor child in all of this but they don’t want to even think of the baby.
Stick round now, don’t go disappearing on us again! All hands on deck, remember, we’re in an unprecedented crisis and no Catholic can, in good conscience, stand aside from the lay apostolate, for which our humble blog provides a platform. So, welcome home, Tirrey!
N O T I C E . . .
Wendy has asked me to post this story on this thread – saying ‘hankies out’ – she couldn’t copy it so I’ve copied it from Word but the pictures won’t copy. If anyone wishes a Word copy, email me on firstname.lastname@example.org and I’ll sent it as Word document attachment.
THE IRISH QUESTION…
As it has always been, the Helpers of God’s Precious Infants Retreat this year in our National Shrine of Our Lady of Walsingham from 4th-8th May, was brilliantly uplifting and inspiring. The strange thing about it, though, was the date it took place – the first weekend in May. We have always had our Retreats on the last weekend – the Bank Holiday weekend and the 2018 one was provisionally booked for that date, so what happened? We suddenly found the Retreat House had booked us for the first weekend instead of the last.
We had a marvellous pro-life priest leading our Retreat. At the end of the Retreat, he said that if anyone could volunteer to go to Ireland to help canvass for the No vote in the Referendum, it would be greatly appreciated (the date of the Referendum being before the last weekend). So now we knew why our date had been changed (and Who had changed it!).
So from our little group, 4 of us were able to volunteer. It was just for 1 week, but it was very intense and demanding. We were staying in the Churchtown area of Dublin and our pro-life priest had put us in touch with the local pro-life group who were campaigning in that area. These wonderful people, led by Liam, didn’t stop telling us how grateful they were for us going there to join them. Our experience of our Helpers’ work in the UK stood us in good stead, having prayed and offered help outside the abortion centres, which our pro-life counterparts had not experienced.
Three of us arrived in Dublin on Thursday 17th May and the next evening we were each paired up with one of the local pro-life group and went door to door canvassing. If the person answering the door said he/she would be voting ‘Yes’, it was an opportunity of impressing on them the humanity of the unborn baby and its right to life. There were indeed many who said they were voting ‘Yes’ – lot’s didn’t want to know about the baby and its rights (after all, it was only a foetus not a baby – often not a baby until it was born!). Some were very angry, others smiling and saying it was the woman’s right to choose and she shouldn’t have to go to Britain to have an abortion.
The lovely pro-life man I was paired off with, Jeremiah, would say what he wanted to say, focussing on the baby, and I thought perhaps I should focus on the mother since it was all about “compassion for the poor women and their right to choose”, so I started telling about our experience in the UK of post-abortion counselling and the terrible suffering the mother goes through afterwards; of what to expect if the ‘Yes’ vote won – it would become just like the UK, it would be horrific, with no-one taking any notice of the restrictions the Government proposed putting in place (which are much the same as in the UK); about the fact that the requirement of 2 doctors signing the form is blatantly disregarded – with pre-signed forms being to hand and the doctors never even seeing the women and so on. And the cases of “foetal abnormality” where so many of those babies, once they had been killed, had been found to be perfectly normal. The object of the Yes campaign is simply to dupe mothers in crisis pregnancies into believing that the best, most compassionate thing for them is to have their babies killed – although they do not use that phrase; they hide the truth in euphemisms like Termination of Pregnancy, removing products of conception – anything but what it really is.
It was encouraging that some we talked to could well be thinking about what we said and turn their ‘Yes’ vote into a ‘No’ vote. One pleasant young man who Jeremiah and I were talking with, although he initially said he was voting ‘Yes’, was more than happy to talk with us and listen and seemed to be taking on board all we were saying, then his father (a huge very angry man) came and pulled him away from the door and told us in no uncertain terms to go and slammed the door. I pray that that young man will secretly vote ‘No’. I think that one thing I didn’t expect to hear in Catholic Ireland, was an angry woman saying she didn’t believe in God.
The next day it was leafleting outside the shops. After we had been there some time, the ‘Yes’ campaigners came and set up a stall in front of some of our people. As it happens, they heard regular renditions of the development of the baby from conception onwards from my husband – I don’t think they were expecting to be told at what point the baby is fully formed, when the heart starts beating, or when it develops its own unique fingerprints etc. Josepha Madigan, campaign co-coordinator for Fine Gael for the Eighth Amendment, graced the ‘Yes’ campaigners with her presence so she also heard about the development of the baby. Although there were many who said they were voting ‘Yes’, there were also quite a few who were very much ‘No’ voters. One lady who had already passed my husband and my daughter on her way towards the shop entrance where I was standing, said to me when I spoke to her, “Another one from England! Who do you think you are coming over here telling us what to do?!!” then marched into the supermarket shop; when she came out she very angrily started shouting about the 8th Amendment should never have been in the Constitution in the first place and going on about Irish politics, but as she was talking so fast and my hearing is not so good, I couldn’t understand a word she was shouting at me. Then, bless her, an elderly lady named Anne told me she was voting ‘No’ and thanked me for being there and caring so much as to come over from England. We had a lovely conversation and promised to pray for each other.
The Archbishop had requested that all parishes would have a special service with Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, Benediction, quiet prayer time, with the intention of praying for a ‘No’ vote. In the church local to where we were this was on Sunday between 1pm and 5pm. While Michael and I attended this, our group of campaigners together with our daughter Anne and her husband Denis (who had now been able to come over to join us) went to all the churches after each Mass where they leafleted. Amazingly, there were many who came out of Mass, having received the Sacraments, and declared they were voting ‘Yes’!
If you really loved the woman, you wouldn’t want to condemn her to a life of unhappiness and suffering – abortion cannot bring back yesterday but it does destroy tomorrow.
Then on Monday it was canvassing time again. This time I was paired off with Paul. When Paul knocked on one door, the man who answered asked us to “come in” – it was all in darkness and he opened the door to the front room which was also in darkness and I remember feeling a bit apprehensive but as Paul went in, I followed. Then he turned the light on and Paul started telling him why we were there. A lady came from an adjoining room saying that she was an Obstetrician/Gynaecologist and that they were voting ‘Yes’! That was the end of that interview. But we had our ‘No’ votes as well, so we were not discouraged.
I think my assessment goes something like this:
It seemed to me that the more wealthy houses we approached were very much ‘Yes’ voters. They didn’t want to move out of their comfort zone; they had their big houses, expensive cars and probably expensive holidays, and the intrusion of a baby wasn’t to be considered. And men (the angry ones) – there was no-way they were going to accept responsibility for fathering any offspring so they would vote ‘Yes’. On the other hand, the less affluent places were quite often the ones who would be voting to protect the mothers and babies. The younger women and girls seemed to have been tricked into thinking that this removal of the Amendment would free them and empower them. If only they would realise it only traps them and enslaves them.
The end of our canvassing time that Monday evening brought to an end our Vote No campaign. It seems that after a certain date, no more campaigning is allowed. But it was an experience that won’t be forgotten and whatever happens, many people were made aware of the humanity of the baby and what real compassion and help is for mothers in difficult situations and crisis pregnancies. Instead of ending the lives of their babies, give them the practical help they need to give birth and to bring up their precious children – accommodation, baby clothes and equipment, monetary help if need be, and so on. Instead of building abortion centres, build crisis pregnancy centres where these mothers can turn to for real help.
For years the pro-abortion people have been telling us that it is a matter between a woman and her doctor – it’s nothing to do with anyone else; it’s purely the woman’s choice; it’s her body and she can do what she likes with it etc. etc. and no-one has the right to interfere or tell her she would be making a mistake. Now, suddenly, it’s become a public matter and mysteriously the public can become involved (so long as the public does as it’s told).
Tom was telling my daughter Anne, about an Indian priest who had gone to Knock and when they were praying for a No vote in the Referendum, had seen the Lamb become illuminated. After this the priest had gone to Croagh Patrick and saw the Lamb illuminated again and someone took a photo of it. When the photo was developed this is what appeared…
And so the campaign was over and we had to say ‘goodbye’ to the wonderful pro-life group we had been working with – Liam, Anne, Anne, Tom, Jane, Jeremiah, Richard, Paul and all the others. I didn’t manage to get a photo with everyone in it, but here’s just a few.
Love and prayers from all of us in England. God bless you all. God bless Ireland.
St. Patrick, pray for us.
If, God forbid, a terrible tragedy occurred in Dublin that resulted in the deaths of a number of new-born babies, all these hypocrites that voted Yes would be out with their flowers, kissing and hugging while shedding crocodile tears in Oscar-winning performances of pretendy mourning.
Even rabbits, birds` eggs and snails are more protected now in Ireland than unborn children.
As for the woman who complained about someone coming from England to canvass. I`d be willing to bet a few pounds that she will have plenty of relatives working and earning a good living in the UK and voting in elections here.
As my mother, God rest her, would have said, they`ve made their bed so let them lie in it.
The Irish referendum result is also a testimony to the enormous power of the mass media which, more than any other single factor, has destroyed Western mores. Most people are, consciously or otherwise, simply unable to resist the prevailing narrative, thus they subscribe uncritically to groupthink. As for young people, the vast majority of them seem to frequent schools which are far more interested in telling them what to think than how to think.
I do not have Facebook or Twitter, and I cannot recommend them to anyone else, even if the Pope and not a few bishops and priests use these platforms. I think that one of the most urgent of pastoral tasks is calling out the media for what it is. Of course, in the UK we have the BBC, which is in a category all of its own when it comes to pushing the liberal agenda.
As difficult as it might be to accept, people of my generation (mid fifties) and upwards have to face the sad fact that piazza, the public square, no longer exists. There is no longer a shared space where opinions of all colours can have a fair hearing based on a dispassionate examination of the facts. What we have now is a battlefield where the rules of engagement are precious few in what is essentially a fight to the death. I do not particularly admire Donald Trump, but his calling out of media bias on a vast scale is spot on, even if so few people seem to realize the toxic effect of a monolithic liberal media bias for our politics and our culture generally.
What to do? Pull up the drawbridge for a start. Yes, the Church by her very nature has a mission to the world, but for this very reason she must not allow herself to be overcome by the enemy in this or that particular battle. We must look after our own spiritual well being if we are to be fit for and capable of ministering to the world.
Trouble is, the castle is in an advanced state of ruin, the moat has been drained and the current châtelain thinks that this state of ongoing devastation is all to the good. And there’s the rub. It is the same corrupt mass media which sustains Francis which led to the referendum defeat in Ireland. Not only, but he uses the media as a rod with which to beat the Church’s back, and that is quite simply the ecclesial equivalent of wife beating.
The Catholic Church’s future in the West is instinsically tied up with her will and her capacity to preserve her identity. This means being deeply rooted in tradition and resisting those siren calls which would eliminate any meaningful difference between the Church and the world.
Well said Prognosticum…what we have witnessed is a superb example of ‘neuro linguistic programming’..anyone reading this please Google that phrase.
The new meme these days is pensioners and their potential to cost/inconvenience to the younger generation…the Govt has even now got committees on Intergenerational unfairness!
If children are aborted as an ‘inconvenience’ then what of the elderly?
The same media is programming the herd mentality that the elderly are to be despised as much as the unemployed. The young against the old, the cost of pensions,the Dementia Tax was run up the flagpole and then quickly run down again (vote loser/grey votes), but their arrogance is palpable.
So what next….Abort the elderly/disabled?……do NOT waste precious money on that lot (Royal weddings/Olympics excluded of course, even in austerity times).
Coming down the turnpike is EUTHANASIA….unless you are Productive (tax payer) you will be at threat. As I have said before…it will become a right, then a DUTY and the young will not give a toss.
If children are aborted as an ‘inconvenience’ then what of the elderly?
Spot on. I am definitely NOT looking forward to being in need of any State care. My prayer is that, whatever God has in mind for my demise, it does not include hospitalization or State carers. Please, Lord!
Editor, I will live out my life in the remotest But and Ben and probably off grid than rely on ANYONE to assist. This new generation of Millenials are generally hedonistic and selfish beyond any previous generation. Their sense of entitlement is beyond our ken.Their is NO way they will assist Ma and Pa. I have heard snidey comments already from extended ‘family’….like ‘allright for some, but we’ve got to out to WORK!’….thin edge of the wedge.
The MSM is the programming tool being used to ‘educate’ the younger generation.Dr. Josef Goebbels would be using the same tactics here.
I reckon Abort the elderly is the next meme.
I received the following email from the Family Institute (email@example.com), publishing an email from Kerry Right to Life to Archbishop Eamon Martin of Armagh:
Dear Archbishop Eamon,
We have been contacted by concerned supporters who were shocked by the report on Six One News.
There was a clip from Knock with you stating ‘it is hoped that those who advocated a NO during the campaign will now work very actively to try to ensure that the legislation that is passed as the Taoiseach himself said allows for abortion which is ‘ rare, which is safe and which is legal’. We are not the ones that will be ensuring this, it is up to the hierarchy to hold these politicians to account, many of whom profess to be Catholic. The use of this phrase was imprudent, insulting and very unfortunate as no abortion is safe (the baby is killed) and no abortion (the intentional destruction of an unborn child) should be legal not to mind rare.
It was Bill Clinton who first coined this phrase and later his wife Hilary dropped the word ‘rare.’ It plays into the hands of the pro-abortion lobby appearing to condone it and it weakens our side which is already devastated at the outcome of the referendum.
We ask that such language not be used and to correct the record. As Pope Francis has stated abortion is evil, it is a crime and can never be justified.
We naively thought that the Church would use the opportunity to really defend life and show strong leadership on this issue but instead the Church stayed silent and deferential. We thought there would be a national Novena in defence of Life, a special day for life in Knock as in 2013, that there would be prayers and adoration in every parish and a united front by the bishops.
Many daily Mass goers, eucharistic ministers and pastoral council members to our sadness voted yes as priests said little on the subject and just asked people to reflect.
We sent an urgent email on April 23rd explaining how serious the situation was. The outcome may not have been different but it could not have been worse.
The remnant of the faithful that remains would like to see the Church take a very different stance in relation to the serious nature of abortion and explain to those who voted for it that to be pro-abortion is incongruent with our Catholic faith. It is difficult for us to see people reading at Mass who voted yes (including Josepha Madigan), to see Eucharistic ministers distributing communion who voted yes and to have pastoral council members saying a yes vote was in conscience permissible. Our country is a cold place not only for the unborn but also for faithful Catholics who feel badly let down by the hierarchy. [emphasis in the original].
We live in hope that the bishops will tell our legislators that they cannot in conscience vote for this bill – this is a golden opportunity for the Bishops to clearly and unequivocally state the teaching of the Church outlined below. We have played our part and it is now time for the bishops who were largely absent during the campaign to be fearless leaders and proclaim the truth.
73. Abortion and euthanasia are thus crimes which no human law can claim to legitimize. There is no obligation in conscience to obey such laws; instead there is a grave and clear obligation to oppose them by conscientious objection. From the very beginnings of the Church, the apostolic preaching reminded Christians of their duty to obey legitimately constituted public authorities (cf. Rom 13:1-7; 1 Pet 2:13-14), but at the same time it firmly warned that “we must obey God rather than men” (Acts 5:29). In the Old Testament, precisely in regard to threats against life, we find a significant example of resistance to the unjust command of those in authority. After Pharaoh ordered the killing of all newborn males, the Hebrew midwives refused. “They did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, but let the male children live” (Ex 1:17). But the ultimate reason for their action should be noted: “the midwives feared God” (ibid.). It is precisely from obedience to God-to whom alone is due that fear which is acknowledgment of his absolute sovereignty-that the strength and the courage to resist unjust human laws are born. It is the strength and the courage of those prepared even to be imprisoned or put to the sword, in the certainty that this is what makes for “the endurance and faith of the saints” (Rev 13:10).
In the case of an intrinsically unjust law, such as a law permitting abortion or euthanasia, it is therefore never licit to obey it, or to “take part in a propaganda campaign in favour of such a law, or vote for it”.98
A particular problem of conscience can arise in cases where a legislative vote would be decisive for the passage of a more restrictive law, aimed at limiting the number of authorized abortions, in place of a more permissive law already passed or ready to be voted on. Such cases are not infrequent. It is a fact that while in some parts of the world there continue to be campaigns to introduce laws favouring abortion, often supported by powerful international organizations, in other nations-particularly those which have already experienced the bitter fruits of such permissive legislation-there are growing signs of a rethinking in this matter. In a case like the one just mentioned, when it is not possible to overturn or completely abrogate a pro-abortion law, an elected official, whose absolute personal opposition to procured abortion was well known, could licitly support proposals aimed at limiting the harm done by such a law and at lessening its negative consequences at the level of general opinion and public morality. This does not in fact represent an illicit cooperation with an unjust law, but rather a legitimate and proper attempt to limit its evil aspects.
Kerry Right To Life
Cllr John Joe Culloty Chair
Anne Keeling Secretary
Mary E. Fitzgibbon PRO ENDS.
Now, may I remind readers that throughout the years that Cardinal Keith Patrick O’Brien was supporting dissenters and publicly questioning celibacy, when he addressed a SPUC pro-life conference (which I attended) only to insist that he was “pro-life” in the fullest sense, that is, not just against abortion, but nuclear weapons etc – the trick of muddying the waters, minimising the unique gravity of abortion – we opined in our newsletter (which he described publicly, in his cathedral, as a “scurrilous rag”) that there HAD to be something wrong in his private life, and ditto any other bishop who is so far away from the truths of the Faith and Catholic Morals.
I repeat that charge in the case of this Irish archbishop and others like him. Something HAS to be awry in their own personal lives for them to effectively promote abortion by minimising its gravity.
Exactly and if anyone is reading, do a search on Cardinal Bernardin and the Seamless Garment caper.Also google his ‘life’…somewhat disconcerting to say the least. But he did the US Presidential Medal of Freedom.
A friend in England emailed me about the referendum result and I thought this part of his email is of particular interest to those who – relying on reports of canvassing home to home – were quite confident that there would be a NO result…
EXTRACT FROM EMAIL..
Looking forward to reading [the Catholic Truth blog report]. I had other friends over there campaigning too, the interesting thing is one of my friends, who was very big in the campaign in Dublin area, actually thought that from door to door there was a really strong No vote – he was expecting a victory and I had been convinced by him.
Today I realised something from my Legion of Mary time dealing with the Irish; the Irish on the doors often lie in order to appear more religious than they are. The English generally are happy to admit that they are lapsed and never go to Mass, the Irish will, on the door, act as if they were daily Mass-goers and only with probing questions and investigation to you realise the truth, so I think, when the pro-lifers knocked at the door many said they would vote no because they knew that was the answer they wanted to hear and the virtuous answer, in reality though, they are Godless and a quick look through their DVD collection or stack of celebrity magazines on the table reveals all you need to know about them.
I hold liars in utter contempt, no matter their nationality but I find the above, if true, to be particularly contemptible.
“To destroy the foetus ‘is something worse than murder”.
The one who does this “does not take away life that has already been born, but prevents it from being born”.
(St John Chrysostom)
The road to HELL is paved with the bones of Priests and Monks
And the Skulls of Bishops are the Lamp Posts that
Light the Path (St John Chrysostom)
Where are our Irish Bishops, the GATE KEEPERS of the FLOCK???
Why didn’t the Irish Bishops tell the FLOCK
that if they Voted for ABORTION, that they would Automatically Excommunicate themselves – “Latae Sententiae”
The Silence from the Irish Hierarchy was DEAFENING
And when they did speak, it was All Too Little, Too Late!
Have they now told Irish Catholics this morning Sunday 27th May,
Feast of the Blessed Trinity
that they cannot approach for Holy Communion if they Voted “yes”.
Rest assured the Irish Hierarchy will again fall SILENT on this request. Why?
Because they are either afraid or they are Ecclesiastical Masons.
The Irish Hierarchy have now Betrayed Christ all over again – Judases
May the Lord forgive these Shepherd/Gate Keepers of his vulnerable Flock.
Did not St John Paul reiterate Christ’s Words to us ‘Be not Afraid”
See email, below from a very concerned Irish Catholic Professional who is distraught, now losing hope and is questioning his Faith – especially in light of the fact that the Irish Bishops did not WARN the Irish People of the Consequences of Committing Moral Sin if they voted ‘Yes” – resulting in Excommunication!!! Those who voted ‘No’ feel let down by the Irish Bishops – because now both the ‘Yes’ and the ‘No’ are able to go and receive the Eucharist- so what the heck is our Faith all about if you can vote ‘No’ or ‘Yes’ and both can still receive the Eucharist – utter Confusion. And where was Pope Francis for the Irish Faithful – utter Silence before, during and after the Referendum – is he not the Voice of Peter – for God’s sake give us a break Lord Jesus and bring on the Chastisement as soon as possible – we are tired, weary of this Confusion from our Pope and Hierarchy – absolute no Moral Leadership from them, God help their miserable souls and calling!
Shocked, disappointed that our once Catholic country could vote Abortion in!
The land of Saints & Scholars is like O’LEARY – dead and in the grave.
My wife, Marie and myself start to question how could Our Lord allow this travesty to happen. Other countries introduced Abortion by Legislation but our boys and girls see fit to VOTE it in.
Don’t talk to me about our Clergy – everything was too little too late. They are afraid to speak out – no moral leadership. Can you tell me what is the state of peoples’ souls who voted this way – surely they are committing Mortal Sin by receiving
Holy Communion but the Clergy will not utter one word. We are a disgrace, goombeens – to see that PEOPLE are thrilled at – the prospect of innocent babies being murdered. Prime Minister, Leo Varakar said we are a progressive country. Let me out of this kip.
A recent sermon by Fr Fidelis, a Nigerian priest here in Dublin, said you are not a catholic/christian if you vote yes – something other than a Christian but not a Christian. Anyway we are on our way to Euthanasia that’s the next liberal law in Ireland.
Brenda is there any priest that you know that can WRITE a short article for your updates to give some hope that no matter how we feel there is some hope. My faith is shattered. My family voted in block “NO”.
My understanding is The Bishops thought that direct involvement by them would fuel the anti-Church sentiment, and they, therefore, they encouraged the lay faithful to take the lead.
I read more than one report that said past abuse by members of the Church greatly added to the anti-Church sentiment. However, that thinking was based on the sickest, most perverse, logic: some of them said because children were abused by figures in The Church we will not listen if they tell us to protect the child in the womb.
As I said in another post, although I believe ALL abortions should be outlawed it can only happen in stages. In the short term, no British politician can sensibly argue that if progressive liberal modern Ireland has, in general, set the upper limit at 12 weeks, we can therefore we can leave it at 24 weeks.
Although pro-lifers will struggle with the notion, we should the recent Irish precedent to force UK legislators to reduce our upper limit, and like our opponents, who do these things in stages, not stop until we attain our true goal: full Human Rights for every child conceived in the womb.
The only rescue craft available now is the SSPX…God please protect the Society from these vipers! I cannot now abide the post V2 Clergy and their effete services.
Apologies if this has already been posted. There are so many links on this thread that I may have missed it.
The Irish Bishops and Co. not speaking out because of the “Sex Abuse Scandal” doesn’t wash. They are shepherds, that’s their job, if they wanted to abdicate the job then resign. If this was their excuse for not speaking out, then this is child abuse at its worst!! In the same way they covered up, or did not speak out at child abuse, they have now kept silent when they see that there was the possibility of mass killing in abortion chambers of babies.
Nobody in their right mind will say “Oh the Bishops say vote no, so I am going to go out and vote yes to killing a baby” Sorry, this is a very poor excuse for cowardice, in fact, a disgusting excuse for the cowardice of the Irish Bishops (I really hope they are not really using this excuse). This is a simply a case of child abuse yet again amongst the Bishops of Ireland, because they did not speak out at the potential danger to the baby – they stayed silent!!!!!!!.
Bishops should have lead the charge, they need to do their duty, it is like a Surgeon refusing to operate on a patient and leaving him for lay people to treat.
They need to step down after they inform every “Catholic” who voted yes that they are excommunicated. They then should offer to resign on mass as they did not speak out against the possibility of the mass killing of babies in their country, in the same way the Chilean Bishops offered to resign because they, Chilean Bishops did not speak out during the child’s abuse scandal. After all the killing of a defenceless child is a far greater sin than the Sex Abuse Scandal.
As for the Bishop of Armagh who said that those who voted “No” should now help those who voted “Yes” in facilitating the killing of a baby in an abortion death chamber, this Bishop should be defrocked and excommunicated immediately!
As they were broadcasts interviews, and other radio shows, I can’t cite dates or times but I can say with certainty more than one person, and one reporter, stated that in an extreme attempt to reject an abusive Church they/others would vote yes to the amendment.
Editor another of my posts has disappeared.
Ihave posted one very poignant letter 4 different times has not come up
Well said Chloe ….Abortion is the ultimate deadly child abuse ..baby battering starts in the womb now ….infant bloodlust staining the Emerald Isle a ruby red ..how very horrific to even think about ……the child sacrificers must be ecstatic……….
Inflammatory language, or excesses, on either side of the debate doesn’t help anyone, and it definitely isn’t Christian.
Just as everyone who campaigned for, or voted, for no are not all geriatric paedophile loving religious, then not all who voted yes are into “infant bloodlust”, or are “child sacrificers”.
Many of those who voted yes have been spoon fed lies for years, and have been led to support inalienable bogus “human rights” and have embraced the myth that “reproductive rights”, and a woman’s control over her own body trump the right to life of an wholly innocent child.
Many of those labelled with intemperate, ill-c0nsidersidered, labels are God fearing people who may have believed, really believed, they were working for the common good. Name calling won’t change that, and may indeed endanger more lives, but rational campaigning and dialoguing, to win over minds and hearts, will.
How can you do dialoguing with people who won’t talk to you without insult?
It is clear that the traditional notion of “Ireland” has long gone and we are today faced with a Godless nation where self-centered and ignorant loud-mouths hold sway. Just like the rest of Western Europe then.
Perhaps the predictable referendum result is harder to take if we view it from the perspective of the Ireland that is no more? Perhaps there is a little room for optimism, if we look upon Ireland as being just like the UK, but with 1/3 of the people being solidly pro-life? Though, of course, there is little comfort to be had generally, especially this early following the result.
I regard the pontificates of John Paul 2 and Benedict 16 as being the pontificates of “keeping up appearances”. That is, a desperate effort to maintain an image of the Church, while things fell apart behind the scenes. Well, with the arrival of Francis, the cat is out the bag and the state of the Church is in full view. Ireland has followed a similar path, with a Catholic veneer being maintained right up until these (Same sex “marriage” and abortion) referendums, which have unquestionably lifted the lid on the real Ireland of today. I am sure it is no coincidence that the fall of Ireland seems to be progressing in tandem with the ruin of the Church.
Ireland used to be nation which was admirably self-confident: in the people themselves and in their Catholic values. This meant they were never scared to go against the grain and, regardless of what problems the nation faced – be it famine, poverty or British oppression – their confidence and values always meant they endured and prevailed.
How sad then, to see the Ireland of today with its embarrassingly overt desire to conform to the zeitgeist and to receive a pat on the head from the “big countries”, like America and “England” – which are seen as being the height of modernity and sophistication. Confidence and values have been replaced with cloying need and self-worship.
These referendums did not even chiefly represent Ireland choosing something for itself, but giving a glib assent to what was expected of it by others. (Just like how they return obediently to the polls to vote again, any time the EU doesn’t like what they voted for).
“England” could start a campaign saying its really cool to jump off a cliff and the young of Ireland would stampede to the nearest cliffs, eager to show how cool and hip they are. Rainbow flags would flutter in the upward breeze, as they tumbled to their deaths below, all wearing their “Jump” T-Shirts and fixed smiles.
Glib conformity is what rules the roost now. And it will be the end of them. Sadly, I find it difficulty to feel anything other than contempt for yes voters and their self-indulgent and short-sighted ignorance.
It seems every pervert, weirdo and crank in the place is now revered as some kind of prophet. Amazingly the Isle of Saints now wants to be led by a lesbian witch (Zappone) and a nutcase who thinks he is a woman (“Panti Bliss”), to say nothing of the homosexual PM whose professed values change like the weather.
I always used to wonder about times in history, how for example when the Nazis oppressed the Jews, how ordinary people could just stand back and watch. Well, we are living through a similar point in history now, with people celebrating legalised murder, simply because women do not want to take responsibility for the natural result of their own choices. The answer is presumably the fallen nature of humanity and the fact that man is not intrinsically good and so needs God.
The nuremberg trials established that abortion was a crime against humanity. How has Europe gone from there to it supposedly being “a woman’s right” in just 60-odd years?
Probably the most repugnant thing i encountered in the media was an Irish celebrity -a young female radio host – who divulged she had to go to England for an abortion. She killed her unborn child because she didn’t want to take responsibility for her actions and subordinated the value of life to her selfish need for meaningless sex. Yet, because she had to take a one-hour flight – such an inconvenience – to get to England, she genuinely considered herself the victim in this affair. She very clearly felt sorry for herself, because a short journey was required before she could kill her child.
Any response to her lack of responsibility and obnoxious self-pity – other than full agreement – brought gasps of “I cant believe you just said that” etc from a studio audience.
I agree with what you have said in your post.
The young Irish celebrity you mention who had gone to England for her abortion and her reason, I understand your repugnance. I know what you mean. In 1974 while undergoing a 6 month operating theatre course, a colleague on the same course, when working in this particular theatre asked the woman why she was having the abortion. Her reply both sickened and saddened me “It would interfere with my social life”.
This a mere 7 years following the legalisation of the UK abortion act. If 2 doctors assessed were supposed to have assessed her mental health state, what exactly was said? I have no idea. Selfish indeed.
Well said! Exactly my own thoughts, especially about “England”.
If the No vote had recruited the knight of the realm, Alex Ferguson,
or a member of the idolised Kennedy family from America, they
would have won hands down. “Pro-choice” wouldn’t have entered the
equations of the glory-hunters.
After all, the sheeple must be led, having no mind of their own.
To Petrus Regnat,
It has always fascinated me how when it comes to abortion, if someone states that you are killing a child then its inflammatory, or excessive in tone. However when it comes to child sexual abuse, nothing is censored. There lies the problem. It is not a termination of a pregnancy, it is the killing of a Human being. It is like the pro-life person being arrested outside an abortion chamber because someone complained about their poster showing the reality of the abortion. The Doctor who dismembered this baby is not arrested!
The Bishops of Ireland were not inflammatory enough!
Nazis used terms for killing Jews, they said “we are processing units” .
When you tell someone you are killing a baby there is no such thing as inflammatory language or excess. In fact many people who are Satanist love abortion and openly say so in America, I’ll send you some YOUTUBE clips of them saying so if you would like them. So when Wendy Walker says “child sacrificers” will be ecstatic’ sad to say but she is 100% right. You are 100% wrong.
If you read everyone of my posts on this topic I have spoken about the killing of children in the womb. Firstly grasp that fact, and then think a little more.
I believe one of your sources in this debate has been a self-proclaimed visionary, and healer, Eddie Stone who goes to Medjugorge (?). See your post of May 23rd at 19.12. You may be able to say what Bishop, in which Diocese, has recognised his teaching, and ministry. I, however, reference, or use, mainstream sources and authentic Catholic ones.
The fact that abortion kills children is for me a fact, but not all participants in this debate agree, but many of those who voted yes in the referendum are not, knowingly, blood lusting child killers, just as not all pro-lifers are paedophilic loving catholic bigots. To use such labels on either side of the debate is unchristian, and not in keeping with any Catholic moral, or ethical, teaching I have ever read.
Petrus Regnat, ALL the abortion providers have long since dropped the euphemisms about clumps of cells etc.
They now openly admit it is a child and that child can legally be killed.
Give the yes voters some credibility for what they support, for the sake of Almighty God.
They know full well what this is about and what is the end product which is ‘NO Baby’…
When it is a Royal baby on they way, or a so called Celeb’s baby, it is a BABY, not referred to as a foetus or the products of conception.
They know damn well what they are voting for and do not care.
I agree that there is no language that can convey the gravity of this crime.
But do not try and tell people like me, or others on this blog, to pull their punches and start using sophistry or desist from unparliamentary language to describe such a heinous crime against humanity and Almighty God.
I have atheist friends who abhor abortion, as in their view it is a crime against nature, the cosmos, destiny, the death of a spirit, consciousness or whatever, but they, even they, recognise the gravitas of such an act.
I don’t know of one abortion provider, or advocate of it, who still doesn’t use euphemisms, or any Undertaker.
Likewise, people still speak of a baby if it is wanted, and brought to full term, but not there is a miscarriage or some other sad ending.
That, however, is not the point. Many, possibly sadly, the majority don’t recognise the child in the womb as a child, and don’t see it as killing a child. That is why so many could vote as they did in Ireland. Others believe the “women’s body” stuff. They are not all knowingly, or willingly, child killers, or lusting after the blood of children. Just as not who voted no are not religious, blinkered, religious bigots, who are paedophiles, or who have sheltered paedophiles.
Unless you take those names, and that thinking, out of the debate not one life will be saved.
If you read my posts on this topic I have not said that you have implied that abortion is not killing the child in the womb. Firstly grasp that fact and think again.
You also believe one of my sources in this debate is Eddie Stone. Wrong again, all my sources with regard to abortion theology are mainstream and authentic Catholic ones. However I passed on a message that Eddie Stone believes more prayers are need for a no vote, nothing to do with the process and theology of abortion. He was right, we need more prayer and I wasn’t indorsing him rather passing on a message for prayer.
I’m not sure where Medjugorje comes in the debate but if you are loosing an argument best muddy the waters – I do understand you!
The fact that those voting Yes in the debate are not knowingly child killers is because the language used in the debate is not strong enough! Call it for what it is – child killing. This is the problem. People saying ” Oh we can’t use inflammatory language, lets treat them like snowflakes,” or “we can’t show pictures of dead babies they will get upset,” and “We can’t call it baby killing it’s not Christian” is total rubbish and is exactly why we now have the prospect of mass killing of baby boys and girls in abortion death chambers in Ireland. Forget your Medjugorje, faith healing banter and lets get to to crux of the matter.
Well said Chloe, you must have been writing that as I was writing my reply to Petrus Regnat at the same time!
There is a difference between you recognising and believing that life begins at conception and that it should come to a natural end, and calling all those who disagree with you killers, and people who lust after blood.
Until you can grasp that simple fact you should perhaps drop out of any public discussion of the topic, as you will, presumably, alienate the very people you seek to convince of the truth and cost even more lives.
When a person has been murdered and The Police are looking for witnesses they put forward, in the media, family who friends who can appeal to the hearts and minds of people, and make real the memory and life of the person, and not scientific boffins, technical people, or moralists, or people who will rant and rave about evil psycho killers. Maybe you should reflect on that.
Hearts and minds, and not sticks and stones, and name calling.
Petrus Regnat you keep using phrases like ‘unless you grasp’ which is indicative that you are sneering and looking down your nose at fellow bloggers.
Maybe you should Grasp the fact they we were not born yesterday, some of us are teachers, architects, chartered engineers who have decades of experience in the REAL WORLD.
I think you are exhibiting the well worn traits of ‘the wind up merchant’!
I happy that you, and I, will be judged on the content of what we actually write rather than what one, or other, says about the other.
I think The Editor, for example, has noted some are obsessed with Cardinal Nichols. Likewise, in spite of the editorial policy that says we recognise we have a Pope, reigning in Rome, some speak of him as “the current chap who is seemingly ‘the Pope”’ and even see communist/socialist conspiracies in every act of some people on the national stage.
I have not speculated about the age or experience of such commentators. Honest. They do seem a tad immature though.
St Miguel, et al,
You are right about Petrus Regnat making a mistake in his remark to Chloe about “not grasping” his point. That does come across as patronising.
However, he is right about the rest.
Pope John Paul II said: “Now, more than ever, we must call things by their proper name – abortion is murder” (Evangelium Vitae # 58)
But that’s different from making a judgement on the souls of those involved, and name-calling those who, as Petrus Regnat indicates, may not be fully culpable. They should be fully cognisant of the facts of the issue, I grant you; they should have made a point of fully educating themselves in the matter of life in the womb, and some of the YES voters whom I met rejected our leaflet precisely because, they said, they HAD educated themselves – so they are in a horrifying category and may well find themselves judged as “murderers” at their judgment before God.
It is not for us, however, to make that determination. We may only quote the fact that the direct, deliberate killing of a baby in the womb – at whatever stage – IS murder. And allow the consequences of that to hit home. We are never EVER permitted to make a definitive judgment on the soul of anyone, no matter how horrifying their crimes/sins. We cannot, for example, say that Dr Harold Shipman is in Hell for his terrible murders of patients, nor that the worst ever abortionist is in Hell – we can only acknowledge that they are responsible at some level FOR murders, and leave it to God to judge because only He knows the truth about their culpability, whether or not they are fully guilty of a particular sin.
It really would not have helped our cause if we have told people on the streets of Dublin that they are murdering so & so’s if they vote YES. We could only say that they need to think hard because the lives of innocent little babies are at stake. Things like that which did, occasionally, bring a thoughtful nod. Our Lord taught us to be “wise as serpents…” so we must employ all the skills we can muster, including a good dose of common sense, if we are to do any good, whether on the abortion issue or the general scandal of the crisis in the Church.
Peace, perfect peace, folks!
PS I’ve just seen the comment about how we refer to the Pope: it is a very strict rule of this blog that we do not refer to him in a demeaning fashion. He IS the pope – the worst ever, a terrible pope, but when I see nasty references inferring that he is NOT the Pope, I usually remove them. I’m inundated right now but be warned… it doesn’t help if others comment because that only adds to my workload. If you can’t refer to Pope Francis with respect for the papal office and title, do not speak of him at all. There are plenty of blogs where they talk about “Bergoglio” all day long so find one of those if you prefer. If you want to blog here, please respect our rules.
I don’t think I was being patronising. Chloe, and St Miguel, at least twice each, dismissed outright the point I was making, which you have since endorsed.
You could however saying I was exasperated by their intemperate language when speaking of others who do not share our insights or knowledge.
I hope, you have noted too, that contrary to the editorial policy of this blog at least one person regularly writes from a Sede Vacante perspective. I thought you banned such people.
I’ve been struggling all day to get the website to refresh; I’ve been trying to get the next edition of our newsletter underway since early this morning, but interrupted by telephone calls – mobile and landline ringing in my ears on and off all day; I’ve worked on – and now launched – a new topic thread, only to find myself criticised for my choice of headline; I’ve been trying to check out the blog occasionally, only to find I need to go and Google for videos gone AWOL and then find squabbling about “intemperate language” so believe me, I understand “exasperation”. Absolved on that score.
I haven’t noticed any sedevacantist – if you mean St Miguel referring to the pope using demeaning terminology, I have just pointed out to him that this is against our rules. If you mean A.N. Other, please identify, but I do try to keep a close eye on the sede department.
Now, is there any chance I can get a bit of peace to get on with some work. Oops! Just realised I could use a cuppa. Is that allowed?
Signed Sarcastic Sally from Saltcoats…
Yesterday a friend with whom I was discussing the Irish referendum told me about mass murder statistics in the USA before 1973, when abortion was legalized here, as compared to post-1973. I’m not sure he got the statistics right, but here are some I found on my own:
# Victims by Decade:
1900 – 1929: 4 (2 decades)
1930 – 1949: 17 (2 decades)
1950 – 1959: 1
1960 – 1969: 6
1970 – 1979: 13
1980 – 1989: 32
1990 – 1999: 42
2000 – 2009: 28
2010 – present: at least 149
It was tempting to connect the devaluation of life due to abortion with the increase of mass murders, but not sure about that. According to the National Right to Life Committee, since 1973 there have been 60,069,971 babies killed in their mothers’ wombs in the USA.
WOW! “…since 1973 there have been 60,069,971 babies killed in their mothers’ wombs in the USA.”
Now would that be murder we are talking about ?
Or would such an expression be deemed intemperate (or immature).
I am reminded here of the G.K. Chesterton hymn ‘O God of Earth and Altar’
‘From all that terror teaches,
From lies of tongue and pen,
From all the easy speeches
That comfort cruel men,
From sale and profanation
Of honour and the sword,
From sleep and from damnation,
Deliver us, good Lord’.
I think it’s been made crystal clear that abortion is murder. There are factors to be taken into account, however, before we may call a woman “a murderer”. Pope John Paul II said we had to call “things” by their proper name. “abortion is murder”. He did not say we must call the mother a “murderer”. That’s because not even a pope can read a heart and soul. That’s for God to judge.
Get it now?
PS the above is the recommended way of explaining the situation to a “pro-choice” activist who asks you if you are saying SHE is a “murderer”.. Kinda reduces the chance of you, your good-self, being murdered 😀
This is the latest pro-life message from The Pope.
Dated several days after the Irish abortion referendum – talk about too little, too late.
Singularly unimpressed….reeks of the Seamless Garment theme.
A friend of mine in Ireland told me that Bishop Doran has said those who voted “yes” must go to Confession before going to Communion again. He’s been getting stick in the media, but what’s the point of all this after the fact? Why were the bishops not warning this before the referendum?
Our humble Pope and his faithful bishops should have been warning everyone that to vote yes would automatically incur excommunication. But they didn’t. Surprise.
I wonder if that would have mattered anyway. Probably not.
I totally agree. The Pope and bishops SHOULD have spoken out. Whether or not it would have made a difference is not their concern. I’m sure that, humanly speaking, our visit made NO difference at all, since minds were clearly made up – “land of saints”? Yes, they’ve a rich heritage of saints from days of yore – but “scholars”? Not if the closed minds of the majority of people we met, young and older, is any measure.
Those bishops had a duty to be very outspoken about the consequences of voting YES. That is their duty.
I have never judged anyone’s soul as I know only God can do that. See my comment today;
May 28, 2018 at 3:22 pm
“The fact that those voting Yes in the debate are not knowingly child killers is because the language used in the debate is not strong enough! Call it for what it is – child killing. ”
The Satanist, however know what they are doing.
The Bishops as previously stated remained silent up to the referendum, thus colluding with the enemy. They are guilty of the result by NOT informing the people of this grave evil and its consequences. The people voting Yes, as I am fully aware, many have not been catechised by their parents, schools or their Clergy (God takes everything into account).
It is the Clergy’s job to have instructed them, inflammatory as much as possible as the tragedy for Ireland and indeed the whole world is incalculable.
Please do not persist in inferring that I am judging the souls who voted yes as they too are very much the victims of an Apostate Church.
Chloe, seemingly I have been JUDGED by Petrus Regnat as a sede vacantist ,as it seems HE thinks my blogs hint of such a perspective,so much for the old phrase, rush to judgement) also it seems we are intemperate in language and a tad immature!
He is a wind up merchant as far as I can see…but then again ‘who am I to judge’
As long as you are not referring to Pope Francis in a demeaning way or calling into account the validity of his election, then nobody, including Petrus Regnat, can judge you as being a sedevacantist. I DO remove any such nonsense when I come across it – these past few days have been hectic and I’ve no time to check out his allegations, but if you are “not guilty”, then ignore him and move on. Anything smacking of childishness on the blog (or anywhere else!) drives me nuts and you really do NOT want to drive me nuts. Trust me.
I think you should re-read what Editor has said about your “Child Killers” approach. You will alienate the very people that need to be won over.
May I suggest you listen to The Editor, if not me?
As those who have a different opinion to us distrust The Church, and The Bishops, exactly how would The Bishops speaking out help? The Bishops judged wisely the laity should take the lead on this matter.
Petrus Regnat, your last paragraph says it all….particularly your last sentence.The bishops judged wisely?
Wrong, the bishops did NOT judge wisely that the laity should take the lead. THEY are the shepherds, THEY should have taken the lead. They have decided that the child abuse scandals are the perfect cover for them to remain silent now on everything – just keep apologising for the sins of individual priests and bishops of the past and keep a low profile, seems to be the idea. And that is cowardly.
I think Petrus Regnat job is to divert any responsibility away from the Bishops and then accuse bloggers of false accusations as a way of arguing. This diverts the topic from the responsibility of the hierarchy who by their cowardice were instrumental in Ireland’s Abortion Yes vote.
IN which case, ignore Petrus Regnat, leave him to me, and keep your charity intact.
You are SO right about the cowardice of the hierarchy – that’s a given. And they will face a terrible judgment at their death, unless they repent, big time, with bells on, so to speak…
I would hope your brave, and generous, visit to Ireland taught you the leadership of The Church, on some issues, lack credibility. Therefore, for The Bishops’ to take the lead on an issue pertaining to child welfare would have been even more counter productive.
I have followed the news from Ireland closely and one image doing the rounds was a “notice”, for want of a better word, that said:” you buried children in secret graves, enslaved women, transported children, sexually abused those that remained, and you want to tell is how to care for children”. Not the exact words but definitely the sentiment.
No-one in Ireland could possibly not know the teaching of The Church on abortion, but, for whatever reason many have rejected it.
A male, supposedly celibate, hierarchy who failed to act on these historical issues could not have credence, but an informed active laity – such as yourselves – could have. That is the point I am making. And more than one insider, expert, and commentator, said that is why The Bishops would hinder, not help, the campaign in such a climate.
As for the suggestion that no” genuine” priest abused children look at the results of the different reviews/reports. Many men wholly trained, and formed, and ordained before any liturgical changes, or Council, took place did so.
Unless you do not listen to any secular news, we are told that in the UK many of our prisons are overcrowded because many men – in their 80’s and 90’s – are imprisoned there for so called “historical” sexual abuse.
The Church in the Western world has been wounded and on some moral issues people do not hear its moral teaching.
If you did not believe in your Mission, why on earth did you bother going to Ireland?
More than once, not to exaggerate, I had savage comments about abusing priests shouted at me during our time in Dublin. Not having a giant brain, I made the obvious, very simple reply that – lamentable as those cases are, to say the least, – we must remember two things: firstly, that a minority of priests were involved, and in so behaving provide tragic evidence of the human side of the Church and secondly, that the sinfulness of members of the Church does not change the fact that the Church has been given to us by God to teach us all that we need to know to save our souls; that requires a teaching Church to guard and proclaim the natural moral order. God’s Moral Law. When we uncover a scandal about any other professional person, we don’t refuse to ever visit a doctor again or allow a crooked lawyer to prevent us from seeking legal help when necessary. So, why blame “the Church” – Christ’s Church – for the sins of a minority of its members?
I can’t claim to have influenced anyone, but they heard it. They heard those key truths about the Church and that is all that is required of me. I cannot change their minds, or convert them, or wave a magic wand to give them insights into the truth of all of this, but I must not fail to speak that truth, for any reason, including a false understanding of the virtue of prudence.
Same applies, with increased responsibility, to the Bishops of Ireland. Their “prudence” – meaning that they avoid annoying everyone, avoid incurring the wrath of the public over the child abuse scandals – means that they leave God’s grace out of the equation. God is blocked out at the very time when He would prove to be a marvellous “resource”. We are so focused on “human resources” that we forget all about “divine resources” – St Paul has something to say about our limited human thinking, and in this matter of the hierarchical [lack of] meaningful response to these awful scandals, we see a classic example of it.
For, this whole apologetic mentality is crippling the Church in Ireland (and elsewhere). How come teachers, doctors, lawyers, nurses, don’t feel the need to grovel with apologies for every crime committed by members of those professions? It wouldn’t occur to any other professional to take personal blame for the sins and crimes of any other teacher, lawyer, nurse etc. It just wouldn’t. I’ve been in the company of doctors, for example, when the name of the serial killer, GP, Dr Harold Shipman has been raised and not once, ever, has any of them – or the British Medical Association – apologised on behalf of the profession. Just doesn’t happen.
The Devil – not Christian prudence – is behind this dumbing-down of episcopal duty. The fact that a minority of priests committed heinous crimes against children (many of whom, now deceased, were never accused, tried or convicted during their lifetimes), is, surely, all the MORE reason to preach Catholic Faith and Morals from the rooftops, with demonstrable steps taken to clear out and clean up the seminaries, restoring strict requirements for entry.
The logic of the Bishops’ current position seems to be that, because of the historic child abuse scandals, they will no longer preach the Faith and proclaim true morals. That’s ridiculous, and, in fact, far from making the situation better, they are doing the precise opposite. I saw sheer hatred for the Church and clergy on the faces of many members of the public during our short time in Dublin – so, lying low and apologising to Olympic standards, isn’t helping. Not one jot. It’s actually adding fuel to the fire of hatred directed at Christ’s Church. It is nailing Christ to the cross, over and over again.
Here’s a link to our blog on the Irish Bishops’ woefully weak statement in 2015, prior to the same-sex “marriage” referendum. My comments (in blue) highlight the sheer nonsense of the “apologetic” position then, and having actively participated, albeit in a very limited way, in the recent abortion campaign, I can’t see that anything has changed. https://catholictruthblog.com/2015/03/19/irish-bishops-embarrassingly-weak/
As for your closing remark – I find that odd. I don’t “believe in my Mission” – I was simply exercising my duty as a baptised Catholic to defend Catholic Faith and Morals, making the trip to Ireland because it has always been known as a “Catholic” country, and we decided to go, in the spirit of “symbolic action” – hoping to help a little in the NO campaign. But my duty as a baptised Catholic doesn’t replace YOUR duty as a baptised Catholic [to actively proclaim and defend Christ’s Church, Faith, Morals in whatever way is possible for you…] and it sure doesn’t absolve the Bishops from THEIR duty. They should be leading the laity, not the other way round.
Or, is there something wrong with me? Strictly rhetorical – for effect only 😀
My idea of a genuine priest is one called to the religious life by God rather than by his desires, immaterial of when they were wholly formed, trained or ordained. I didn’t suggest that abuse didn’t happen before any liturgical changes or Council.
As for the teaching of the Church on abortion: it shouldn’t matter whether anyone knew it or not. It shouldn’t be a religious matter anyway. Anyone with half a brain and absolutely no religious beliefs should know that to kill a human being, for that is what they are, six months before birth is every bit as murderous as one killed six months after.
If you went to the Chelsea Flower Show and booted the petals off a few tulips you would be locked up for a few days and yet the legalising of the murder of THEIR OWN CHILDREN is a cause of great celebration and joy in a country favoured by a visit from Our Blessed Lady Herself.
If you don’t begin to accept that many of those who voted YES do not believe the lives of children were involved you miss the point. They mostly do not accept life begins at conception, and this is coupled with a belief in mythical women’s rights over their bodies (that is, the child has no rights.).
As for genuine priests, then I am glad you have insights in the minds, and hearts, and the intent of every man who became a priest and eventually did grave wrong (of one kind or another, not just abuse). Even recognised Saints lost there way, at least for a time. One of the best books written on Priesthood, in recent years, was written by Cardinal Ratzinger who said the waywardness of many priests occurs after ordination, when in a world where they are assailed by troubles and doubts, they gradually lose their trust in God and fail to pray. Priesthood is not all elevated moments of grace, and uplifted hearts, it involves trouble and strife, and even condemnation from people who tar most post conciliar priests with the same brush. Priests before, and after The Council, are made of the same stuff.
(I would be surprised if in every Church there is not at least one person facing the struggles that can leave to grave error, of one kind or another. Some will periodically fail. That doesn’t alter their true desire, or intent.
I miss the point do I?
Surely it is those you are defending who are not only missing the point but also missing some brain cells. If they didn’t know children were involved where then do they think children come from?
So when do these poor simple souls start to believe that the lives of children are involved? What about the Irish Prime Minister, a trained doctor? Did he not know that they were dealing with the lives of human beings?
Are those with cleft palates, Downs Syndrome or even the wrong sex not (conveniently) really children as we know them?
Those who “didn’t believe” simply didn’t want to believe. That is why the visual evidence was thrown back in the faces of the pro-life canvassers.
It is obvious that many of the Yes voters will go on to have children of their own and as soon as they have their first scan they will be running around showing everyone the images of their BABY on their mobiles.
If you can’t accept that billions of people, some with highly specialised knowledge, do not believe life begins at conception you are missing the point. That list includes Doctors, politicians. It is a sad fact but true.
I picked this random quote from a site called Debate.org:
LIFE” is very different from “HUMAN LIFE” A Cell is not a human!!! When we are talking about “human life” it’s misleading. At fertilization there’s not a “human”; there are only thousands of cells. It’s very different to say that there is LIFE than that there is HUMAN life. A human is a body with eyes, heart, brain, skin etc. At conception there is no more than epithelial cells or liver cells. It is not clear at what stage of the fetus’s development it becomes a human being. If we say that at eight weeks there is a human, we are lying. A human being is a person that can survive on its own. A fetus cannot do that. If we take out a fetus outside of the womb, it can’t survive one second without the mother. On the other hand, a baby can! So for me human life starts when it can survive on its own.”
I wish it were not so, but you can’t wish such things, and nor can you change the views of others just by insisting on an alternative viewpoint ,which you see as a fact.
To the core of my being I do believe life begins at conception, but, very sadly many do not. That is why some language about “killers”, “murderers” can be counterproductive.
We believe in God, and eternal life, but many do not. For any discussion about this, or any other matter, to be fruitful you have to recognise others may have a different viewpoint.
We can seek to witness to what we believe but we cannot compel others to believe.
I think I have seen, or heard, evidence that pregnancy and scans do not change the minds of some people. That is, for example, a woman who has already had a child(ren) but who has had later ones aborted. Sadder still a subsequent child, and then another abortion.
Those views, wrong or not, are why some people can sleep at night.
Incredibly, when I was in Ireland last week, a number of people on the street “corrected” me when I made my plea for the unborn child, saying that this was a life from the moment of conception. “A potential life” several retorted.
My response was – as you have rightly indicated – to place the onus on them to explain precisely when life does begin, if not at conception.
It’s very dangerous to claim that life only begins when the person is able to live independently – I’ve met 16 year olds, 18 year olds, who can’t live independently. They move into flats to show that they are now independent, and then bring their washing home to mother! Mum helps with the utility bills etc. About as independent as any member-state of the European Union.
You are totally right to point out the inconsistency in the pro-abortion camp, in that they will talk about “potential life” when arguing the case for “termination”, but rejoice in their pregnancy when they want the baby.
It all boils down to the same thing in the end; spiritual blindness – the diabolical disorientation foretold at Fatima. There’s no other possible explanation for it.
I heard it mentioned on a couple of occasions that the abusive Church was to blame for the end result. What exactly is an abusive Church?
When are they going to get it into their heads that it was actually Irish-born
citizens who carried out the abuse. Members of their own families. Their
(mainly) homosexual uncles, brothers, sons, nephews, etc., who obviously
joined the priesthood not to minister but to make it easier to carry out their crimes. In other words, tribute priests.
I don’t believe for one minute that any genuine priest became an abuser
but I am certainly convinced that plenty of home-born abusers became priests.
It wasn’t some “abusive Church” who parachuted in in the middle of the night and infiltrated the country as it is made to sound like.
Spot on. Well said. That is EXACTLY right. The bishops should stop cowering in a corner because of the abuse caused by others in times gone by. Deal now with any they find but there’s no need to hide away and keep silent because of the alleged past transgressions of others.
Evidence Mounting of a Rigged and Manipulated Irish Referendum
We need aGood Barrister – See below!
Some Irish voters turned away with “D” beside their Names for Deceased – unbelievable, nuns and old people turned away!!!
12 Week Old Foetus – How can anyone slaughter, attack God’s Little Ones???
(Saw tweet “Get the church out of the schools now” – it got thousands of LIKES)
TWITTER – “From Dublin – Dun Laoghaire,
“Uproar at Poling Stations here!!! Older people turning up to vote – only to find they’ve been taken off the Register. Others turning up to find a “D” has been added against their name that doesn’t allow them to vote”
If you know of anyone turned away, please
From an Email
Hi Brenda – We need a good barrister. Young people were posted out 2 and 3 voting slips – a young person rang up the authorities to tell them. They said use them!!!!
Over 65 ‘s when voting their names weren’t on the register!!!
There were many cases like this around the country – something urgent needs to be done to let the world know how corrupted the whole thing was. Everything was stacked up against the No Camp. It was very undemocratic!!!
Even Google blocked all enteries for the No Camp. God bless, Nuala
(Brenda: “Also we hear that most Nuns who turned up to vote were turned away because of the “D” beside their Names on the Register
“D” meaning DECEASED”, need some evidence of this)
Legal Challenge Campaign Public Group to Challenge 8th Amendment Change
Why Should We Pay Our Taxes to Kill Babies
ANOIS – has set up this campaign group to take legal action if there are any changes made to the 8th Amendment. We will also take legal action if there are no changes made as we cannot have a repeat of this highly criminal behavior that has disregarded our democratic process and threatened our constitution..
We are running a Nationwide printed petition and on-line petition demanding this referendum be shelved and we will take a legal case against the government should there be any changes made to the 8th Amendment.
A special investigation has revealed that Ireland’s electoral register is massively overstated by almost half a million people.
Where was the “Voice of Peter” for the Irish – Francis. Pope John Paul was very explicit in his words to the Irish over abortion!
Why didn’t the Pope launch a vigorous and heartfelt appeal to the Irish in the days prior to the vote, reminding them that the violation of the Divine and Natural Law is a social sin which the people and their pastors will one day have to give account to God for? With this silence, has he not also been an accomplice to this scandal?
Theologian, former student of Pope Benedict, Fr Twomey – Homily
Abortion Clinic already bought Big Apple Site in Galway, West of Ireland
Irish Homosexual Prime Minister, Leo Varadkar should be ashamed
A Most Tragic Day in Irish History – the Referendum Result
Irish Catholic Charity – St Vincent de Paul Criticized for Neutral Stance on Referendum – many of us know that SVDP is masonically infiltrated for many years. Yes the devil will join up – even queue up for Charity to get his filthy breath into decision making – politics etc – he is ultra cunning and crafty!
The real losers in this aren’t the plucky infantry of the No side, who have done their best to frame this campaign in a positive, life affirming way. It is the foetus, that unseen, unacknowledged and shortly to be unprotected player in Irish society. The victory is over them. Celebrating, are you?
HITLER Loved Referendums!
Referendums are basically acts of fascism and are hailing the Irish people’s mass vote for the right of women to secure an abortion as a wonderful moment in democracy.
Please share the above widely to gladden the hearts of pro life people and Prayers please
VERY URGENT INDEED ..THANK YOU
We need a Global day of Reparation and Fasting for the evil of Abortion as it is rapidly spreading. Do you have any contacts ie Cardinals/Bishops to lead this and also other contacts to promote this?
God’s justice demands this.
Thank you and God bless
What has happened in Ireland has happened to almost every country in the world. This I believe is what ” Our Lady of Fatima ” warned about.
It was disturbing and sad watching the people of Ireland celebrating the killing of babies in the womb, Ireland will probably now have to pay the price?
And what advice did the pope give to the people in Ireland! Zilch !! He was too busy thinking of which apostates to make cardinals!
That linked “breaking news” is utterly scandalous.
In the past, we’ve found that Rorate Caeli is not entirely reliable, but this time they say they have checked with multiple sources, so I’m taking this report at face value. Utterly and completely beyond belief. I say that, however, with the words of an elderly Monsignor RIP, a good friend when I lived in England, ringing in my ears: “These days, the only things that ARE believable, are the ‘unbelievable'”
The use of the word ‘concubinage’ is hilarious…..similar to the lifestyle of priests of the favelas on various S. American countries!
Reminds of the Monty Python dead parrot sketch.
Cognitive dissonance to the factor x 10.
Now to give Petrus Regnat a fair crack of the whip…..consider the scandals in South America and consider how the congregations react to their bishops.
He does have a point imho.
The word we are all searching for here is quite simply CREDIBILITY.
The bishops the world over have none, nor do they have respect, for to gain credibility and respect you have to EARN it.
None of these characters would last a week in a real working environment.
They have all been rumbled…it is as pathetic as the House of Lords.
Princes of the Church…..wouldn’t let them walk my dog.
John, this is what is described in business circles and boardrooms as ‘leading by example!’
These bishops et al have no fear of redundancy, loss of job, home or respect.
Imagine a football manager’s short shelf life…..yet this lot get rewarded for abject failure and worse the sin of OMISSION.
No firm I have ever worked with would tolerate the capricious whims and peccadilloes any of these ‘managers’…..they would be handed their jackets (or cassocks) and be shown the door…they would be unemployable in the real world out there.
This is a litany of failure from V2 onwards, they failed and could not care less and that was all before they were found out in the modern press.
Just a cushy number from what I see at my end.
The Yes campaign made better use of the internet. They, for example, got Irish citizens living abroad, who were disqualified from voting, to pay for young people, who could vote, to return to Ireland, from any part of the world to vote. They had the media on their side, much of the medical and scientific world, celebrities and politicians, and decades, oh decades, of propaganda about brow beaten women inconvenienced in their attempts to get “reproductive rights”, and the freedom to own their own bodies. There was no need to worry about babies as those babies didn’t exist.
They faced an opposition, not, sadly as well organised, or financed, or politically astute, wounded by scandal, parroting stuff which seemed to lack compassion and understanding of the “hardships” the women of Ireland faced.
To blame the Bishops is to deny the reality on the ground.
Why is it only the Catholic Church that is deemed responsible for their employees’ unlawful activities to the extent that they have to
stump out compensation without even a visit to a court or a police station?
Why isn’t the Queen or the D of E not held responsible for the crimes
of the members of the armed forces with them being the head?
What about the BBC for the crimes of their employees? I recall a Fr D’Arcy, a friend of the Atheist Terry Wogan, giving the Catholic Church a going over on the Gay (how did his parents know?) Byrne
Show and yet didn’t mention the fact that his friend, by his own admission, and many more like him, knew What Saville was up to?
Have the Irish turned their backs on their free viewing of the BBC
like they have with the Church?
Have they ceased buying season tickets for their favourite English football teams because of the widespread abuse of their youth coaches? I really don’t think so.
Right from the start, the Church hierarchy should have advised any
alleged victims to go to straight to the police, get a lawyer and, very importantly, produce all evidence and sit back and wait on the court case.
To me, the handing out of “compensation”, which seems to cure all ills, shouldn’t be given to every Tom, Dick Turpin or Harry who
chap on the Chapel House door.
After all, it’s our hard-earned cash that is the source of these funds.
When I saw the way the newly liberated colleens on TV celebrated the impending Irish holocaust/genocide, I found it hard to believe that a few old Magdalene nuns could manage to torture their predecessors.
Surely the No voters were every bit as wounded by scandal as the Yes voters.
Or were all the abusers No voters?
I will assume two things about NO voters:
1. They believe life begins at conception, and reject the fallacies others proclaim.
2. They recognised that The Church can’t be blamed for every wrong, or indeed that all the Church was at fault.
However, my first point was probably the primary one.
Petrus Regnat, the whole business of church in this debate is a red herring as far as I can see.
I have many friends who are atheist who believe that life begins at conception (purely from a scientific angle) and abhor abortion.
THEY know that is is murder, full stop.
THEY do not need any bishops, priests etc to tell them this.
The MSM try to make out that Catholics, Evangelicals etc are nutcases, therefore their opinions on this subject are null and void and these people are guilty of hatecrime (praying outside abortion clinics).
Very soon Pro-Lifers will be on black lists and their will be some cause celebre to get this on the bandwagon…basically a witchhunt on these people.
As regards the Cardinal of England and Wales of which the Diocese of LIverpool encompasses the Isle of Man….I would really like to read what he has had to say, if anything, about the Isle of Man situation where the HOUSE OF KEYS has passed the decriminalisation by a majority of 22-2 and the Tynwald is expected to approve this before it goes for ROYAL ASSENT.
Google Msgr John Devine OBE, worth a read.
Petrus Regnat, let’s look at this article here :-
Now let us consider Archbishop Mc Mahon of LIverpool and who does HE report to?
This is an indication that not only are there priests and bishops who are indifferent to abortion….there are some, perhaps many who actually support it!
But alas this character just got an OBE from Prince Charles.
This is beyond pathetic, this is demonic.
That idiot priest – his OBE will not help him at his judgement – is so manifestly ignorant on so many fronts, that it is impossible to know where to begin. Suffice to say, clowns like him, who, useful idiots that they are, repeat the propaganda as Gospel, need to explain what situation, condition, illness, whatever – would ONLY be fixed by an abortion.
Answer: zero … zilch.
They must be very short of folks to whom they can hand out these daft awards, if the anything but divine Mgr Devine merits one.
What a dumpling. Such a dumpling that we included a brief report on him in the current newsletter. I can’t say it often enough… Idiot!
The “Yes” campaign were the only ones allowed to use the internet. All opposing voices, ie those advocating a “No” vote were SILENCED and CENSORED by the media. The whole vote was rigged to achieve the “desired” result. I hear that George Soros is now turning his attention towards getting the UK to vote to remain in Europe.
Well worth reading article by John Smeaton Pro life leader SPUC
Catholic Bishops destroyed the Irish Conscience
An excellent read Chloe. The Catholic Church went soft on abortion a long time ago.
A few utterances from various Popes now and again means nothing but lip service.
I have NEVER heard the subject mentioned from pulpits for at least 40 years.
Thank you St Miguel,
Archbishop Malcolm McMahon is also the Chairman over Catholic Education Service who were complicit in introducing Transgenderism in Catholic Schools. Catholic Truth did a blog on it
https://catholictruthblog.com/2017/07/29/catholics-must-fight-transgenderism/ (Comments also worth reading)
The Clergy are complicit in either the murder of a child or allowing the Transgenderism into Catholic schools. They are co-operating with the Globalists in their agenda – pure unadulterated evil.
The Catholic Church has never “gone soft” and will never “go soft” on abortion or any other moral teaching or dogma.
You need to avoid falling into the error of confusing “churchmen” with “the Church”. If Martin Luther had done that, we wouldn’t be praying for “Christian unity” today. Not “Church unity” note – we already have that, bequeathed by Christ when he prayed “that they all may be one…” The Church is one – that is one of her four identifying features, as being the Church founded by Christ.
So, “churchmen” may have gone soft, but never The Church.
Deducting pay now – you should know this!
Editor, out in the world Catholics that I know from within family and friends actually believe the ‘CHURCH’…..as in the Catholic Church do not bother with this subject ANY MORE, ditto contraception.
They do not differentiate between Church and Churchmen…they believe it is now just up to your conscience etc .
When did you last hear a ‘Churchman’ speak about either of these subjects at Mass?
People listen to priests like Monsignor Devine (see my other post) and assume (wrongly) that they are speaking for the Church party line.
We can’t even get the POPE to even say a thing about Ireland….no doubt he will be smiling and warmingly embracing the Irish Prime Minister in August.
I know what you are saying, problem is the rank and file Catholics have had their faith watered down to virtually zilch.
There is no leading by example.
The fact that “rank and file” Catholics are wrong about both the NAME of their Church (there are still numpties who call it Roman Catholic – spread this link around any numpties in YOUR circle, to educate them on that https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/churb3.htm )
AND clearly ignorant of the fact that the Church is the Spotless Bride of Christ and, therefore, cannot sin or commit crimes, is all the more reason why we, on this blog, must take care not to add to the confusion. WE, at least, can get these basics right – and do so over and over again, since “repetition is the mother of education” as the saying goes.
We’re here to educate, not follow the crowd, and certainly not to show the same ignorance as the masses of the “rank and file” in such basic matters as the name and divine nature of Christ’s Church.
Editor, laypeople I know use the term to distinguish between the Catholic Church as we know it and other denominations, e.g. the Anglicans who are sometimes referred as CATHOLICS with a small ‘c’.
In effect our brand of Catholics as opposed to the CofE.
Catholics and NOT Protestants.
I listen to family Catholics who are now ‘sure/positive’ that the CHURCH quote :- ‘doesn’t bother with that abortion and contraception stuff anymore’.And it’s all to do with the wonderful Pope we have who really understands how hard it is for us all and is so merciful anyway and hell doesn’t exist and so it goes on and on.
It is so entrenched.
There are people in the C of E who call themselves Anglo-Catholics. They claim to be part of the wider Catholic Church. It tells you this in the short article editor posted – did you read it?
Just googled some churches in local area and they all have RC in front of their name.
May help some people know what is a Catholic or a Protestant church if on hols and looking for a service.
In saying that I just drove past a church in Glasgow which was called St. James the Less!……now I wondered if there was a St James the More or a St James the More or Less ?
One thing for sure I am positive it wasn’t a Catholic church as in RC.
You being a studious Catholic, knowledgeable about so many things, will easily recall from your extensive knowledge, of The early Church, theology, dogma and everything else, already know James, Son of Alphaeus, an Apostle – one of the twelve – is often called “The Less” to distinguish him from James son of Zebedee, “The Greater” and James “brother of Jesus”.
Yes, very much the case.. However I was injecting some much needed levity.Are you a Theologian per chance?
I read that article about the name of the Church and it is very good indeed. It explains that the Protestants invented RC so it really isn’t a surprise that ignorant priests and bishops these days are using it. They’re so busy cuddling up to Protestants that this will be nothing to them.
I notice that both the archdiocese of Glasgow and Edinburgh don’t have RC on their website banners and I’m nearly certain that they used to, so maybe they’ve taken a tip from Catholic Truth and removed it!
Since reading that article on this blog ages ago (in fact, I think I read it in the newsletter first) I’ve never once said RC. As the article says, to talk about the Roman Catholic Church suggests there’s a bigger Catholic Church and the Roman is only one part, with Anglo-Catholics being another part. That makes sense to me, so I never use it. If you haven’t read the article, I suggest you do. It is packed with information I didn’t know.
I visited a relative in hospital and was pointed to the Catholic Chaplain in order to arrange the Last Rites (sorry not supposed to say that anymore….Extreme Unction (oops too severe)…OK ‘Sacrament of the Sick’. Relative’s notes had the relative down as Catholic….There is a Catholic Chaplin in prisons and the armed services.
Seen a job advertised £38k training/starting salary, great hols and benefits special dept for chaplains in the Royal Air Force.
Just been reading in a recent Catholic newspaper comparing abortion with slavery in USA before civil war.
In slavery the victims were….dehumanised .
Stripped of all civil rights
Without a choice in their plight
Not guilty of a crime
Denied the legal definition of a human
Considered the property of their owners
Now compare the above with victims of abortion.
Children in the womb today are considered the sole domain of the desires of their mothers.
John, they only time a male is involved is when it comes down to maintenance.As I have said before in the US there is a new movement called men going their own way MGTOW.
The male is becoming so jaundiced with the prospect that he will be taken to the cleaners by some female at some point in his life that he just wants to spend any income on numero uno.
I agree somewhat with you about males being afraid ” to be taken to the cleaners ” by some females,
The point I was trying to make was the victims of slavery both male and female are very similar to today’s victims of abortion both male and female.
Pope Leo XIII reminds us, “to keep silence when from all sides such clamors are raised against truth,” is “insulting to God and … incompatible with the salvation of mankind. This kind of conduct is profitable only to the enemies of the faith,” as it “emboldens the wicked.”
Also someone correct me if I am wrong, but does Royal Assent mean that the the Queen puts her signature to this as she did in 1967?
I EXPECT YOU HAVE FELT VERY TROUBLED AND SAD AT THE EVENTS OF EALING AND IRELAND ..STILL THEY FIGHT FOR MORE INFANT BLOODLUST NOW WITH N I IN THEIR SIGHTS IT IS SO TRAGIC AS THEIR BLOODLUST IS INSATIABLE
THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS MORE PRE BORN BABIES OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS WILL LOSE THEIR LIVES AS THE KILLING MACHINE CHUGS ON
I AM PLEADING PLEASE WERE IS THE PRO LIFE LEADERSHIP /S ??????? WHAT IS GOING ON?
THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING AND DEADLY !
AS EVERY RABID PRO DEATH FACEBOOK PAGE SCREAMS ..LETS NOW GET NORTHERN IRELAND AND PETITIONS ETC WHAT ARE WE DOING ?
WE NEED TO WRITE IN DROVES TO
THE NORTHERN IRISH PM
TERESA MAY FOR CONGRATULATING IRELAND
THE MASS MEDIA HAS BEEN APPALLING SO PRO DEATH AND GIVING SO MUCH AIRPLAY TO ALL THIS BACCHANALIAN EVIL
SARAH.. WOLLASTON MP ….STELLA CREASEY ETC HAVE BEEN PRACTICALLY LIVING ON EVERY TV CHANNEL PUSHING WITH ALL THEIR MIGHT AS HAS HUQ AND S CHAKRABARTI
WE NEED PLEASE SOME SUPPORT ,DIRECTION , WITH URGENCY TIME IS VITAL
IT IS SO UNBELIEVABLY HORRIFICALLY SAD
WHAT IS GOING ON
SO PLEASE LET US GET OUT OF THIS DANGEROUS COMATOSE STATE AND GET BACK TO REALITY AND START SPEAKING UP FOR PRE BORN CHILDREN WHOSE VERY LIVES DEPEND ON US
LET US START PROBING THE REFERENDUM AND PERHAPS ITS REALLY GLARING IRREGULARITIES..URGENTLY
LETS GET OVER THE SHOCK,PAIN,TEARS AND LETS RE BAND STRONGER THEN EVER
I have e-mailed various Web-Sites, The Remnant, ETWN amongst others who have links to Cardinal Burke and Cardinal Sarah asking for a Global day of Reparation and Fasting for the evil of Abortion world-wide. Let’s hope this filters through and something happens as the silence is deafening on this subject, particularly before the Irish Referendum by Churchmen.
The Pope should be calling for a Global Day of Reparation and Fasting but he cannot,as he as stuffed the Pontifical Academy of LIFE with pro-aborts !
Have a gander at this folks…Cardinal Nichols statement on the Irish Referendum.
Very weak, very typically “Cardinal Nichols”. Pray for him.
The statement by Cardinal Nichols is indeed weak, but then, has he not always been a rather weak person. My biggest fear for the Church right now is that the liberal Cardinals which Pope Francis has inflicted on the Church will find a replacement Pope after PF who is even weaker and more disruptive than what we now have. I really do fear for Holy Mother Church in the not too distant future.
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As you may have seen in the media, following the devastating referendum result in the Republic of Ireland over the weekend and their lurid celebrations, the abortion lobby have now moved their focus to Northern Ireland.
They are putting an enormous amount of pressure on UK Government at Westminster to undermine the devolution settlement and introduce abortion on demand in Northern Ireland.
We know 100,000 people are alive today because the 1967 Abortion Act has not been extended to Northern Ireland. Mothers, sisters, dads and brothers, friends, nephews and cousins. Sadly if abortion campaigners get their way, we could see 100,000 lives lost over the next 25 years in the region.
We need to ensure this does not happen.
You can help by acting now. Please click the button below to take 2 minutes to write to your MP, asking them to respect devolution and oppose imposing abortion on Northern Ireland:
Click here to email your MP now
We know MPs are receiving a large amount of emails from abortion campaigners pushing them to go ahead with imposing abortion on Northern Ireland. We need to ensure MPs right across the UK see large amounts of constituents emailing them asking to oppose undermining devolution in this way. Please do therefore ask your friends to write to their MP and share this on social media.
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Pro-Abortion Mantra: Archbishop Martin Calls For “Safe, Rare and Legal” Abortion
The abortion law in Ireland should allow abortion “which is rare, which is safe, and which is legal”, said Archbishop Eamon Martin of Armagh, the Primate of Ireland, talking to the Irish RTE News (May 27).
Chloe read this statement from Cardinal Nichols and in the context of your attachment.
He supports the Irish Archbishop and bishops.
You would hope that a statement from the Bishops would AT LEAST SAY “We hold our head in shame at the prospect of mass murder of babies on the Irish mainland. We will look at the Catholic Education in the family, we have made the mistake of showing explicit Sex Education to our children in their schools (adding to the problem) so we will now show explicit abortion procedures, and include in it all the mental and physical problems it causes to all concerned. Sex Education must be taught only in the context of marriage. We have to speak from the pulpit on the evil of Abortion, Contraception, Gay Marriage, Transgenderism and give the people the faith in all its entirety”.
“We must take urgent action to save as many lives as possible”!!!
But what do get from our leaders at this time – STATUS QUO hardly Winston Churchill’s spirit here, but Neville Chamberlain capitulation.
Chloe, remember that fairly recently the Vatican ‘downgraded’ abortion to just a normal (BOG STANDARD mortal sin, no ‘special arrangements’ for absolution required, as previously, due to the SERIOUS nature of this sin!
That was before or around the time that the Vatican gave the OK for SSPX to hear confessions.
So it allowed any priest to absolve THIS PARTICULAR SIN and it THEN became trivialised, compared to the previous gravity.
This is what I mean when I say the Church (ok Ed, ChurchMEN) has/HAVE gone soft on abortion.
It’s game, set and match and having staffed the Pontifical Academy of Life with pro-aborts and overpopulation gurus, anyone with half a brain can see where this is heading.
He offers his prayers and SUPPORT to these two Irish Archbishops INCLUDING their STATEMENTS on the Irish Referndum….so what DID the Archbishops do exactly?
Beyond belief….why is Archbishop Mc Mahon not being reined by Cardinal Nichols, why is Mosignor Devine not being reined in by Archbishop Mc Mahon?
It appears to be anarchy within Dioceses up and down the country.
the Cardinal doesn’t have authority of any other bishop. Each bishop is in charge of his own diocese and is answerable to the pope directly.
The priests are answerable to their bishop so you are right about Monsignor Devine he should be called to account for his scandalous attack on pro-lifers, but he won’t be.
He won’t be …because?
Because there’s a crisis in the Church! The Popes have been disobeying the traditional Faith and the bishops have been doing the same and also not disciplining dissenting priests and the result is chaos. Our Lady of Fatima said there would be a diabolical disorientation in the Church and that is the answer to your question.
It’s not beyond belief. It hasn’t been beyond belief for years. As for anarchy within dioceses; I wish.
So what is the point of being a Cardinal then? Does each bishop have his own personal fiefdom?
This is becoming like the Game of Thrones.
As I have said before there is no way such a structure would hold in the real world where people get the sack for failure or NOT being on message.
This diocesan caper is like the Civil Service with its effete mandarins,who only have to coast to pick up a gold plated pension.
that has always been the way the Church works. Each bishop is in charge of his own diocese. It’s not the structure to blame, it’s the loss of faith of the bishops. The structure has worked fine well for centuries.
So a diocese is like a mini state with a Lord or a Laird (bishop) lording it over the congregations.Gives the opportunity for a psychopath to go on an unrestrained power trip, not that any of them would do that.
I take it you are aware that you are saying exactly what the Protestants have been saying for 500 years? They don’t believe Jesus gave us a hierarchical Church either, they think it’s all man made.
Not interested in what the Protestants have to think or say Josephine…Funny how this TRADITIONAL set up for centuries still suits them and no modernisation or overhaul or reinterpretation of this setup, while all the ‘other’ Traditional stuff is anathema to the post V2 bunch.
The German Catholic church is a set apart…do anything but not cough up your tithes and they won’t even bury you…in fact they won’t even allow you to be a Godparent….no dosh…excommunication…..pro-abort no problem.
Those who do not pay The Church Tax in Germany have formally left The Church, and made a public declaration of that fact. That was traditionally called apostasy. Are you saying apostates can act as Godparents?
In my country we have NON catholic Godparents….just been at a recent Christening, one Godparent was a lapsed Catholic and the other was a lapsed Protestant and while you are on…the Priest cared not a jot and the Baptismal sounded like a generic Rite across the board for any Christian denomination…go figure that one out.As regards APOSTATES….rabid pro-aborts who pay their tithes are fully paid up members, despite their unwavering views, but other who refuse to pay towards an avaricious and financially bloated German Episcopate who are so off the wall, even by the Vatican’s standards are in ‘good standing’…..what a joke.
In every country, for a baptism the Sponsor(s)(Godparent) has to be a practicing Catholic. A non Catholic can only be a witness. (Cf the Code of Canon Law 872 – 874)
I do not know what country you live in but you do claim to be a Catholic. However, for example, your knowledge of the role of a Bishop, with his diocese, the names of the Apostles, and many other things seems to be sadly lacking.
While you sneer as usual Petrus Regnat, what is sadly lacking is your reply to me on a simple yes no answer, as I asked you earlier. Is the Pope’s affirmation of not admitting gay men to seminaries, in your opinion,good or bad?
I don’t have to express an opinion on anything The Pope says.
However, can you not stop posting erroneous stuff based on a wholly inadequate knowledge of ecclesiology, doctrine, liturgy, Canon Law, and even – very strangely – the role of a Bishop as The Chief Shepherd of his Diocese.
When corrected you have not once conceded you were wrong.
This seems to be good evidence that the vote was rigged
READ this folks and especially the last three paragraphs….remember the Church wants LAITY involved.
Now someone tell me that the Vatican has NOT gone soft on abortion?
Irish pro-lifers organize 40 days of public penance over abortion referendum.
It’s the Pope, Cardinals and Bishops who should be doing Penance.
As I keep saying it comes from the top down, the Vatican per se is giving tacit permission for abortion. The non utterances from the Pope wrt the Referendum, the disgusting statements from Archbishops of Armagh and Dublin ,the Isle of Man Monsignor Devine caper, the Archbishop of Liverpool effete ministry. The Cardinal of England & Wales SUPPORTING the Irish Bishops’ statements. The Emma Bonnino disgrace, the Plouman award, the stuffing of the Pontifical Academy of life with non catholics and pro-aborts.THE DOWNGRADING of the severity of the the sin of abortion.The Seamless Garment nonsense, conflating abortion with poverty, immigration and the whole nine yards.
The Pope turning himself in to a film star, Vincent Paglia and his frescoes.
I could go on with further examples….the bottom line is if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
This is the apex of diabolical disorientation.
Re your list – I think that is exactly why the pro-lifers are organising 40 days of penance.
Yeah, but the ones at the top need to be called out. They need to be shamed….they are now out of control. They are now showing the de facto definition of sociopaths in that they have NO concern other than their own careers or self aggrandisement. They are taking the faithful for a ride. They are now acting like out of control Tsars and we all know where that led.
I am currently watching a recording of Question Time on The BBC. The first question was essentially “if Mrs May believes in Human Rights why is she not working for women (i.e abortion) in NI rather than her relationship with The DUP?” Caroline Flint MP gave her answer, which went even further than the questioner, and the majority of the audience applauded her. She argued if NI women can get an abortion in Scotland, England or The Republic they should be available for them at home, as an inalienable right.
All pro-lifers, if they want to achieve anything, have to recognise the nature and language of the debate, and not attack Bishop’s who seek to engage with law makers, and those who disagree with Church teaching, to limit abortion whilst working for its eventual abolition.
I wish to repeat an earlier point I made. Pro-lifers cannot work to achieve the complete abolition of abortion overnight but they can, as the Irish Bishop’s have done, challenge law makers to limit the so called right, by limiting the upper limit for abortions. Likewise, here in the UK we should challenge lawmakers who praise progressive Ireland to lower our abortion limit – currently at 24 weeks – to the 12 weeks proposed in Ireland. If Ireland has become a model for modern politics and “human rights” let us ask our politicians to follow a pattern they admire.
“Any other tactic, and talk of murderers and child killers, will be counter productive and make real reform impossible, That is seek to reduce the upper limit, and work through different stages for its abolition.”
Human Life does begin at conception and those children should enjoy the full protection of the law. However, with an all or nothing approach more will die.
Then, I wonder why Pope John Paul II said ‘”Today, more than ever, we must call things by their proper name, abortion is murder”?
Somewhere on this very thread, The Editor, herself, answered that question.
But the answer is, we rightly call it murder but we have to educate, and dialogue, with people who do not believe life begins at conception, and do not believe we are speaking of a child.
Please do not misrepresent what I said. I will come on later to respond in more detail to your “Question Time” comment – with which I heartily and totally disagree, but for now, in brief, there’s a huge difference between calling someone a murderer to their face, without knowing the level of culpability, and noting that, objectively, those who participate in abortion are, in fact, “murderers”. In a public debate, it is, of course, possible to get the same point across without necessarily using the term, but what is NOT optional is to remain silent or ambiguous when a daft politician calls the murder of the unborn a “human right”. THEN, were I on that QT panel or in the audience, I’d have quoted Canon Law which places all of those Catholics involved in an abortion – the woman herself and all who assist her, without whom the abortion would not have taken place (and that surely includes pro-abortion Catholic politicians) OUTSIDE the Church. They are automatically excommunicated because abortion is murder and those who participate in it are, by definition, “murderers”. That’s one way to use the term. Then, anyone with half a brain in the audience should be able to work out that if a Catholic is a murderer, so, too, are the rest. Half a brain required, though, not necessarily going to happen in a QT audience.
“By definition” note, and by that same definition, abortion, the deliberate killing of an unborn child, cannot be a “human right”. That nobody questioned Caroline Flint, and that Brian Souter was so weak on the subject (I’ve seen the same edition now) speaks volumes about the lack of critical thinking, if not simple intelligence, of the average QT audience. I call this out on our video introducing the Thinking Through Catholic Truth series.
I’ve said more here than I intended but if I’m not crystal clear, I’ll respond to questions later in my own, personal edition of “Question Time”!
With respect, I believe you and I are saying the same thing. In public discourse, where we are seeking to dialogue with those who have a different view, it is counterproductive to call it murder.
Can I be clear as I can be, in every case an innocent life is taken, and their human rights are wholly denied – in fact the right to life – but not all who seek are entirely morally culpable, and it helps no one to bandy about the language of murder in relation to them. For any sin to be a mortal sin there has to be full knowledge, and full consent. Elsewhere, you state often people have often been not been fully educated on moral matters, and likewise, in the case of abortion, many would not give their full consent. Therefore, other principles of justice, and language which shows empathy, and compassion, for the other victim, of some abortions, should surely come into play?
Likewise, as in Civil Law where what might ordinarily be called murder can, in the light of mitigating circumstances, can be taken down to a lesser charge, so it can be in other circumstances. Indeed in the O.T. itself where God tells them to set up sanctuary cities, and hold fair trials, that is the case.
Further, infanticide was never a sin reserved to the Holy See, nor any other murder, why in the year of Mercy, – although in fact every day should be a day of mercy – when the Pope extended universally the right for all priest to absolve for an abortion do people wish to present The Church as lessening the seriousness, and importance, of abortion. (In fact prior to The Year of Mercy many individual Diocese, and Conference of Bishops, had had that permission.
In speaking of sin, and its worst effects, when are some people going to start showing mercy, empathy, and compassion? (This point is not addressed to you personally Editor.)
An all or nothing approach to altering Abortion Law will help no-one, and many more innocent children will die. I repeat again lets bombard our opponents with the example of modern progressive Ireland, and get them to reduce the upper limit to 12 weeks, and like our opponents let us then keep chipping away at the edifice until abortion is, once more, illegal.
I don’t think pro-life people lack mercy, empathy and compassion. Many of them give these women financial support and other help. That’s unkind and untrue to say they lack compassion.
Laura, the anti-life brigade will NOT be satisfied until abortion up to birth…the 12 week caper is just what it is, semantics, sophistry and obfuscation.
Ireland will shortly up the ante and move the 12 week limit up the way..the UK will never lower it.
For Petrus Regnat to infer Ireland as enlightened is quite frankly preposterous.
I have not said I think Ireland is enlightened and progressive.
I have said turn the tables on those who say it is, and challenge them to follow the Irish lead with a 12 week upper limit (compared to our 24 week upper limit). That is use their own argument against themselves.
I totally agree – there is no way they will settle for abortion at 12 weeks. I’ve already heard of people saying they want up to six months. The abortion legislation hasn’t been passed yet, so I would bet that it will not be limited to 12 weeks or maybe make a show of 12 weeks but put in a clause to allow later abortions.
As within Europe the UK has the highest upper limit of 24 weeks, and the majority of countries have set it at 12 (except in cases of rape or health of mother) perhaps you can provide evidence of the claim Ireland is planning to go beyond what the rest of Europe , and the upper limit most commonly discussed in the recent referendum.
I suspect you can’t
Any upper limit is too high but we should be using the “lead” of Ireland, and the example of other states in Europe, to bring ours down.
Maybe Laura can’t provide evidence of her claim that Ireland will not restrict itself to the 12 weeks talked about throughout the referendum campaign, but I can.
“Minister for Health Simon Harris published a policy paper outlining how the Government intends to legislate if Article 40.3.3, dealing with the right to life of the unborn, is repealed. The paper identified 21 policy principles that would inform the drafting of legislation, including that gestational limits on abortion would not apply if there was a risk to the health of the woman, either physical or mental.”
There isn’t a question in my mind, and there should be none in yours or anyone else of even average intelligence, that those who promote abortion do not give a toss about the age of the child – they want rid of it, no matter the age, no matter how evil the action.
As the headline indicates, the talk of 12 weeks was nothing but a red herring. They’re after abortion on demand and if you had seen the faces of the YES-let’s kill these kids- campaigners that I had to suffer, you would know that there is no question of them accepting any limit, and certainly not 12 weeks. There it is, your evidence, in the above extract from the Irish Times report, the same old, same old get-out clause …. if there is a risk to the health of the woman, either physical or mental
Well said Editor.
In my answer to Laura I highlighted the fact that practically every country has the same exceptions to the, mostly, 12 week limit. That Ireland would do that is hardly a surprise, and one the Irish Bishops highlighted in their response to the referendum.
As I have said in practically every post discussing the issue in the abstract in pointless. We should discuss it in terms of the reality of the ground: the known views of political/leaders and parties, the opinion polls etc.
It is me, not you, that is keeping an eye on the ball, and the goals of others, and I have pointed out progressive goals for pro-lifers to work towards.
You might also note the link crofterlady posted.
She states even Canon Law states a person must actually KNOW that abortion incurs the punishment of excommunication for it to be applied. See paragraph 5
In other words we can agree abortion is killing/murder but there are situations where even Church discipline/penalties DO NOT apply, and we should tread carefully in discussing the full culpability of others in, or out, of the internal forum of confession, and definitely in talking about, or too, those who disagree with us..
Likewise I was checking which MP’s joined up with Phylis Bowman when she split from SPUC, and most of its patrons are the Catholic MP’s in Parliament, and in the context in which he is lauded here, a notable one is Jacob Rees Mogg.
Our attempts to challenge the law should take into account the political realities on the ground, the insights of our political supporters, and the seeming majority opinion in the country.
To approach the topic in terms of moral abstracts, even though we understand that to be The Moral/Natural Law, is to score an own goal, or to miss the mark (that is the root meaning of sin).
I am dismayed that a comment I posted this morning seems to have disappeared and I can’t find it in any of the usual hiding places for posts that go AWOL. I don’t have time to repeat everything I wrote there but I had come in to finish it by way of saying that if I had been on that Question Time panel this week, I would most definitely have called abortion for what it is, murder, as Pope John Paul II said we must now do. “The time has come” he said “when we must call things by their proper name. Abortion is murder.” That’s different from CALLING someone a “murderer” – I thought I’d made that clear – for the reason you specify, that we cannot read the soul.
I would, however, in the context of any discussion say that, yes, technically, a woman who aborts a baby has, by definition, murdered that child. The deliberate killing of a human being, outwith the exceptions of a just war etc IS murder. Were I to find myself in conversation with a woman who has just had an abortion, and showed signs of distress, of course I would not say that, but I WOULD say it to a woman who has had more than one abortion – a now, sadly, not uncommon occurrence.
But, to repeat, had I been on that QT panel or in the audience and allowed to speak, I’d have called it murder because the entire atmosphere was pro-abortion with nobody causing anyone to think about the reality. THAT’S the reality that future generations will find astonishing – that we had state-sanctioned killing of the unborn and those who realised it was wrong were too busy playing politics to call it out for what it is, in reality: the gruesome murder of a child in his/her own mother’s womb. Question Time? Who cares?
You see I am not in the slightest impressed by the loud rounds of applause given to Caroline Flint or the “Rab C Nesbit” speak-a-like guy wearing the rainbow (I think) tie. If you recall, Brian Souter got the same loud applause for his comment about the sacredness of life. The sole “pro-lifer” (and note the inverted commas) on the panel.
What Brian Souter failed to understand is that if, instead of watering down the effect of his comment by adding that it was a matter of choice, blah blah, he had stuck to his guns and spoken about the humanity of the child and the human rights of the unborn child (isn’t that written into the UN charter? Have they removed it?) he would have had thunderous applause, too. The QT audiences are a breed apart. They persistently applaud, equally loudly, often, entirely opposite points of view.
As for Canon Law’s reminder that Catholics need to KNOW that the penalty for abortion, including assisting at an abortion (nurses, doctors, those who encourage the woman, boyfriends, husbands etc), for it to take effect, THAT is the KEY argument for insisting that the bishops and priests speak out to WARN the people that if they participate in abortion in any way, they are placing themselves outside the Church. That the Bishops and priests failed to do so, undeniably aided the YES vote.
As for Jacob Rees-Mogg – I’m that one person in the UK who is not a fan. That he has spoken out a few times in defence of the unborn is good, basic, but the fact that he takes a “softly, softly” approach in terms of the issue in politics is entirely underwhelming. When I hear him reassure his interviewers that they have nothing to fear if he becomes Prime Minister, that abortion is a matter of conscience and same-sex “marriage” is “settled law” (?since 2014?) I know that he’d be about as Catholic a Prime Minister as Sadiq Khan.
Finally, Fatima priest, Father Gruner RIP, speaking at one of our conferences way back in 2009, remarked that the pro-life movement had decided to leave God out of their discussions on the subject and so He has left them to it. Their insistence on making it only a “medical” and not a moral issue, has backfired. Of course, the two things are inseparable – it’s only because the child is obviously a human being (scientific fact/medical evidence… think ultrasound scans) that the killing of the child at any stage of his/her development is immoral, but it’s quite wrong to think that this will be put right without God’s help. It won’t.
By all means we must use the graphic truth about aborted babies (and squeamish Catholics can look the other way, because we MUST bring home the reality that this is a human being not a clump of cells that will never be anything else) but we must also drive home the truth that we are behaving in this barbaric way because we have decided to go it alone, without God. I bet that WOULD get some hearty applause even from a QT audience.
I did read your earlier post in response to my QT Post, and so which one went missing I do not know.
Obviously, the one above uses much of the earlier material but is different.
I hope we can at least agree that abortion is the taking of an innocent life on a false pretext, and that abortion should be outlawed in every situation.
However, in good faith, I will have to disagree with you – as do the hierarchy of The Church – on the methods, and approach, to take.
Well, since there’s not a lot about which the hierarchy of the Church agree with me, I can live with that. Just a pity the babies who will never be born, don’t have a chance to plead with the Bishops to try some straight talking, to obey Pope JPII’s injunction to “call abortion by its proper name.”
As I said to everyone, just about, to whom I spoke in Dublin last week, next time you mark Holocaust Memorial Day and join in the worldwide shock horror that so many people turned a blind eye to the Nazi killing of so many Jews, Catholics, and others in the gas chambers, spare a thought for the unborn being killed, as were the above victims of the Nazis, “legally”. It seems to me that one state-sanctioned killing regime is really much the same as any other.
Well, no. As I went on to point out in Dublin, none of us, adults, is truly innocent. We’re all sinners of one kind or another, all guilty of something, and that is true even of those poor people murdered in the holocaust. The difference with the murder of the unborn is that they are truly vulnerable, the only people who are innocent of any personal sin.
I am 100% confident that you will accuse me of misrepresenting your views, but I believe on practically every thread, on pro-life issues, you stress that abortion is different to any other act of killing.
It is odd then you state “as I said to everyone, just about, to whom I spoke in Dublin last week, next time you mark Holocaust Memorial Day and join in the worldwide shock horror that so many people turned a blind eye to the Nazi killing of so many Jews, Catholics, and others in the gas chambers, spare a thought for the unborn being killed, as were the above victims of the Nazis, “legally”. It seems to me that one state-sanctioned killing regime is really much the same as any other. ”
Likewise, you challenge the “Seamless Garment” argument presented by The Pope, and others, in defence of all human life, in opposition to all things that kill them: hunger, disease, famine, war, homelessness.
Surely you must now concede honestly that in dialogue with our opponents we must be consistently pro-life on all fronts, or else we are never going to succeed,
Likewise, I repeat an all or nothing approach to abortion reform is futile, and will cost lives.
I DID and DO say that abortion is different from every other type of killing and if you had quoted the second part of my remarks about the Holocaust Memorial Day you would have seen that belief affirmed. It is precisely BECAUSE it is different – in that ON