Comment:
Jacob Rees-Mogg MP, widely lauded as a strict, traditional Catholic, fails to make the distinction between ‘judgmentalism’ and making necessary moral judgments… or maybe you agree with him? Do we really need a lying, adulterous Prime Minister to take us through Brexit? That’s how I’m reading JRM’s support for Boris – what about you?
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Comments (15)
I’ve just come across this article which reveals that, contrary to popular belief within traditional circles, JRM is certainly NOT a ‘traditional’ Catholic. He likes the – as he calls it – ‘Extraordinary Form’ (a dead giveaway) when he can get to one, but as long as there are no guitars, he’s fine with the novus ordo.
He certainly is one very confused man, it seems to me… although it might be a tad judgmental to dub him a ‘hypocrite’!
I’d cut JRM some slack on this. I don’t like the way Boris Johnson behaves, but I think if we were going to wait for a paragon of moral virtue to get us out of the European Union, we’d never leave it at all. Even Nigel Farage, who can largely be credited as being one of the main driving forces behind the referendum ever being held in the first place, has been no saint where personal moral issues are concerned. But no-one doubts his sterling achievements to date in trying to free us from the shackles of the EU. I think God permits the use of all sorts of people for all sorts of things – bad people and good people. It’s the cockle and wheat issue. If we only ever co-operated with truly good people, we’d never co-operate with anyone, as we’re all sinners. I think JRM made the distinction in the above interview that he did distinguish between general principles and personally condemning people. If he were to condemn MP’s for all their public sins, he’d never have time to do anything else!
PS – I meant to add that I think the only people who have described JRM as a ‘strict traditional Catholic’ are the anti-Catholic mainstream media, who think that anyone who opposes abortion is an out-and-out ‘strict traditional’ extremist, and possibly so-called ‘Catholic’ papers, like the Catholic Herald, who don’t know what day of the week it is. I don’t recall that he’s ever described himself as a traditionalist.
The kind of stuff JRM has to put up with –
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/the-disturbing-attack-on-jacob-rees-moggs-children/
William,
The attack you refer to was orchestrated by the left-wing ‘Class War’ group and the activist Ian Bone. When they go for you, you KNOW you’re in the right path. They are people eaten up with envy and hatred.
I didn’t know that, Westminterfly. I do agree on your point. It is sad, however, that basic decency and civility seems to be disappearing. It is possible to disagree with someone and not hate them but our politics, in particular, seems to becoming more bitter.
The tactics of this interviewer are predictable: tar the messenger (Boris Johnson, and hopefully Mr. Rees-Mogg along with him) and avoid the real issue (you know, the same tactics being used against Abp. Vigano…). Good grief, do they all have to demonstrate their expertise on defamation in order to get a degree in “journalism”?
As for the lying, adulterous Mr. Johnson being a potential Prime Minister – what else is new in the world of politics? Donald Trump is no choirboy either, but he certainly loves his country, which is a lot more than can be said of any PC NWO stooge, including Teresa May.
That said, I don’t know anything about Mr. Rees-Mogg, but my impression of him is that he is utterly cold and bloodless, and would somehow find a way to rationalize the euthanizing of his own grandmother. Perhaps it’s just that famous British reserve….
RCA Victor
I think your impression of JRM is way off the mark. Don’t mistake his behaving in a calm and recollected manner for a lack of passion. I think he loves his country as much as Donald Trump loves the USA. And probably loves / loved his grandmother even more! (I’m not sure if she is still alive).
WF,
Glad to hear it….
Well, I’ve been trying to imagine myself in that situation, on national TV, with an opportunity handed to me on a plate to speak for, or against, Christ and God’s law. I hope and pray that I would make a (much) better job of it, than did JRM.
I seem to be alone on this planet in seeing that the real distinction in such discussions is not that between “sin” and “sinner”, – obviously we must do that – but of the link between today’s decadent public morals, the effects of the widespread immorality in our society, breakdown in family life etc, and the fact that people in public life, from the politicians to the monarchy are not countering, with good example, this prevailing permissiveness. Those, like Boris, chasing high political office should be seeking to put this right, not leading by their own, personal bad example. In the case of this latest JRM interview, it really boils down to whether or not the Church is correct in her expectation that Catholic politicians will seek to enshrine Christ the King, as Head of every nation under Heaven. Or perhaps wait until after Brexit.
JRM pointed out that it was not up to him to conduct a religious regeneration (or words to that effect). He assigned that task,, incredibly, to “His Grace” the (Anglican) “archbishop” of Canterbury. JRM is one very confused Catholic all right – and that’s without counting in his tolerance of Boris’s immoral lifestyle. He did mention that if elected to the top job, Boris would be in a position to surround himself with good advisers etc – I was amazed that the panel did not pick that up. Methinks JRM, who should have been brought into the cabinet ages ago – he knows more about Brexit than the rest of the cabinet put together – knows that he will be recruited to high office if Boris becomes the next PM (which I seriously doubt, for the record.)
If JRM had given a truly Catholic response, that could not possibly have damaged either his personal standing and reputation, or Brexit. God is never outdone in generosity. Put another way, slightly paraphrasing Our Lord’s own words: If you do (not) deny Me in the presence of men, I will (not) deny you in the presence of My Father in Heaven.
Boris – like any other unfaithful husband – IS to be condemned for his immorality (which amount to serial attacks on the institution of marriage) and JRM could have, and in my opinion should have, used this interview to say so, certainly adding that Boris is – in fact – not that different from many other politicians and that this sort of immorality is now widespread in society, and so JRM might say, that, by itself, in today’s permissive culture, his ‘colourful’ (sinful) lifestyle surely does not debar him from seeking high office.
What’s not true in any of that? Who knows where such an honest response would have led. The one common thread that I have noted in these JRM interviews, is that the interviewers are always taken aback because they know fine well what the Church teaches and they expect JRM to reflect that teaching in his replies. He, sadly, never does.
In the toss up between Caesar and God, these days, sadly, God always loses…
Jacob Rees-Mogg obviously hasn’t heard of the prophetic voice of the Church. That is what he should have been during that interview. Any other politicians, whether Catholic or not, could have said everything he said. When people go along with the crowd like that, whatever the motive – and it’s usually “prudence” – they just leave people in their ignorance and sin. I wasn’t disappointed in Jacob because I’ve come to not expect much from him in this way. He’s very good on Brexit, I agree, but the faith, he is weak on, or maybe he actually believes that what he says about judging people’s private lives is the actual teaching of the Church. If that really was the case then there would be no hope of bringing about any kind of truly Christian revival, or improving public morals. That goes against reason and we know that faith and reason do not contradict one another.
First time I saw him, he was speaking eloquently and defending the faith against a brutish Piers Morgan. Originally, I was delighted to hear of his faith (even if the posh Etonian vibe was a little jarring).
Then, I saw stuff like this. Has everyone forgotten the actual Church teaching on the whole “don’t judge” directive? It doesn’t mean: have no opinion; I can’t condemn; it’s up to God to say right and wrong.
Quite literally, all it means is it isn’t a human’s place to declare whether someone’s heaven or hell bound i.e. proper judgement. Our faith, actually calls us to declare sin, and its occassion, in an attempt to steer souls away from it.
Every Catholic who uses the “don’t judge” line like JRM is either a hypocrite or ignorant!
Also, there’s nothing wrong with NO Masses! Some of us don’t have any Latin Masses available anywhere nearby.
Shroudedman,
In agreement with you except for the novus ordo Masses remark at the end. What on EARTH makes you think there’s nothing wrong with them?
For one, I’ve never been to a Latin Mass so NO is all I’ve ever known and I can see the Church’s logic behind the shift.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if I end up entranced by TLM once I find one. But I enjoy reading and quite like Latin.
It doesn’t help that whenever I’ve encountered an EF Mass goer, they scoff and denigrate every NO attendee. That’s the opposite of the word Catholic – dividing into weird cultish sects.
Oh, and if I understand correctly, the difference between the two is rituals. You guys find TLM more reverent and by extension NO diluted. My take is it’s Mass. Both include the real presence of Jesus Christ so to dismiss either is gravely wrong.
I’ve been to Masses where the rituals are too modernist for me (guitars etc.) but I still received Holy Communion. I still heard the Word of God. So, it’s my preference of ritual is all.
If you think there’s something more seriously wrong with NO and that I, along with millions of Catholics are all worshipping in the wrong style or some such, please – link an article.
TL;DR Holy Mother Church doesn’t need more schism. It needs unity. We should have one core type of Mass for everyone to be used to, or the faithful should accept multiple forms in their own merit. Just my tuppence! 🙂
Shroudedman,
Firstly, forgive me for commenting on your chosen username and avatar but, given that we are supposed to be ‘walking in the light’, it puzzles me. I’ll put it no more strongly than that!
Secondly, nobody, but nobody, should ‘scoff and denigrate every [or any!] NO attendee.’ That is disgraceful, so accept my apologies, on behalf of every TLM-attendee, because – quite apart from issues surrounding the Mass – it is sinful to treat anyone in such an uncharitable manner.
I’ve found an article which I think you will find helpful in explaining the problem with the NO Mass – but even without knowing a single thing about the differences between the two Masses, the words of those responsible for the creation of the NO should suffice; Archbishop Bugnini said that it was their intention to remove everything from the Mass that was an obstacle to Protestants (six Protestant ministers admitted to actively helping to create the new Mass and expressed themselves very pleased with it – Google to find a photograph of the six alongside Pope Paul VI and remember, the one key thing about the Mass which has always been an obstacle to Protestants, is that it is the re-presentation in an un-bloody manner of the Sacrifice of Calvary), and Father Joseph Gelineau said, on completion: “we must be clear; the Roman Rite as we knew it, no longer exists.”
With all of that in mind, I think you will find this article of interest
http://archives.sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/q5_novus_ordo_missae.htm
And this article, Words That Count, by Dan Graham, highlighting the omissions in the new Mass, published in our newsletter some years ago, has also proved popular http://miol.nu/DanGrahamMassdifferences.pdf
Hope these pieces help to highlight the importance of offering God true worship – whether or not we prefer one or the other Mass is actually irrelevant. It’s what we are saying to God that matters, not our own “enjoyment” (with or without guitars!)
Comments are closed.