Interfaith… or Interference with God’s Plan of Salvation: does Church matter?editor
Below, extract from Archbishop stresses unity during visit to synagogue
Archbishop Tartaglia of Glasgow said: “I think it’s important to remember no matter what religion we are loyal to it’s ultimately God that directs and nourishes us in our daily lives and on different perspectives of certain issues, God is talking and guiding us all in our daily lives.
“Ultimately, that is the truth of the matter and it is therefore up to our Churches, Synagogues and Kirk to take that message of a ‘common good’ to the doorsteps of those who don’t believe.
“In a world that has so much devastation we each believe our religion has the truth to finding peace and happiness, but our differences are not the cause of conflict and dispute.
“Here today we are gathered as that witness of a desire for men and women of different religions to promote harmony, especially during Interfaith Week.
“Our role within civic society can help expose people of every class and denomination to a platform in which they can be informed of God’s message of hope and the common good which is a powerful force to unite people.
“As we sit together this morning discussing our Faiths we are grateful for the things we have in common and can be thankful for positive relationships which now exist between different religions and denominations.” Source – Scottish Catholic Observer (SCO)
Ecumenical and interfaith events such as that described in the SCO report above, make it increasingly difficult to see the point of individual religions. Are they really nothing more than a group of “peace” movements, at their best when working together to achieve peace, locally, nationally, globally? Is that what “religion” is all about. It’s not what I was taught, that’s for sure. I was taught that God has a plan of salvation, and that this plan of salvation is – in accordance with His will – achieved through His one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. Surely, if that is true, the Archbishop has a duty to say so and not make statements to the effect that God is pleased with every religion as long as they are looking after “the common good”, whatever that might be at any point in time. Share your thoughts…
They do confuse us. Pius XI in Mortalium Animos says that ecumenism is the denial of the very principle of revealed truth which requires assent to God’s word on His authority. It flatly forbade any Catholic participation in false doctrine. Catholicism is the religion revealed by God. When Jesus sacrificed His life on the cross, the temple curtain which weighed more than 500 lbs.split, the sky darkened more and there was a great earthquake which split the rock of calvary and the split ran for miles. It still can be seen to this day. The temple veil, which separated the sacrificing priest from the people represented the beginning of the New Testament and the end of the Jewish old Testament. Jesus had already made His apostles Priests at the Last supper. Our Bishops have a ‘pedigree’ when they are made a bishop, which goes all the way back to the Apostles. So….there is no other Church. The Apocalypse refers only to the Catholic Church. There was no other Church in existence when it was written. Ecumenism is a sin. Whew!
I went into the encyclical Mortalium Animos, to check out exactly what Pius XI said about ecumenism and religious interfaith and it is truly damning, as you say. I’ve copied out the first few paragraphs because they are crystal clear that what Archbishop Tartaglia has just done and said at that interfaith meeting, is completely and utterly wrong, and opposed to God’s will:
Quoting Pius XI,
“Never perhaps in the past have we seen, as we see in these our own times, the minds of men so occupied by the desire both of strengthening and of extending to the common welfare of human society that fraternal relationship which binds and unites us together, and which is a consequence of our common origin and nature. For since the nations do not yet fully enjoy the fruits of peace – indeed rather do old and new disagreements in various places break forth into sedition and civic strife – and since on the other hand many disputes which concern the tranquillity and prosperity of nations cannot be settled without the active concurrence and help of those who rule the States and promote their interests, it is easily understood, and the more so because none now dispute the unity of the human race, why many desire that the various nations, inspired by this universal kinship, should daily be more closely united one to another.
2. A similar object is aimed at by some, in those matters which concern the New Law promulgated by Christ our Lord. For since they hold it for certain that men destitute of all religious sense are very rarely to be found, they seem to have founded on that belief a hope that the nations, although they differ among themselves in certain religious matters, will without much difficulty come to agree as brethren in professing certain doctrines, which form as it were a common basis of the spiritual life. For which reason conventions, meetings and addresses are frequently arranged by these persons, at which a large number of listeners are present, and at which all without distinction are invited to join in the discussion, both infidels of every kind, and Christians, even those who have unhappily fallen away from Christ or who with obstinacy and pertinacity deny His divine nature and mission. Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little. turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion.
3. But some are more easily deceived by the outward appearance of good when there is question of fostering unity among all Christians.
4. Is it not right, it is often repeated, indeed, even consonant with duty, that all who invoke the name of Christ should abstain from mutual reproaches and at long last be united in mutual charity? Who would dare to say that he loved Christ, unless he worked with all his might to carry out the desires of Him, Who asked His Father that His disciples might be “one.” And did not the same Christ will that His disciples should be marked out and distinguished from others by this characteristic, namely that they loved one another: “By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another”? All Christians, they add, should be as “one”: for then they would be much more powerful in driving out the pest of irreligion, which like a serpent daily creeps further and becomes more widely spread, and prepares to rob the Gospel of its strength. These things and others that class of men who are known as pan-Christians continually repeat and amplify; and these men, so far from being quite few and scattered, have increased to the dimensions of an entire class, and have grouped themselves into widely spread societies, most of which are directed by non-Catholics, although they are imbued with varying doctrines concerning the things of faith. This undertaking is so actively promoted as in many places to win for itself the adhesion of a number of citizens, and it even takes possession of the minds of very many Catholics and allures them with the hope of bringing about such a union as would be agreeable to the desires of Holy Mother Church, who has indeed nothing more at heart than to recall her erring sons and to lead them back to her bosom. But in reality beneath these enticing words and blandishments lies hid a most grave error, by which the foundations of the Catholic faith are completely destroyed.”
I can’t imagine how this is going to be changed, having gone down this road of false peace, and false unity. The bishops we have right now are not humble enough to say they are wrong, so this is likely to go on and on.
I wonder what they say when they read the likes of the above encyclical? Do they actually think Pius XI was wrong, misguided, or what?
Oh Thank You, Margaret Mary for all that. I think we’ve got to start collecting the encyclicals while they are still available. I think they will get rid of them. If they do understand them, which I doubt some of them do. Those that are infiltrators. Sometimes I get so upset about this that I ‘bust’ into tears. Gotta get a grip! Ask for the fortitude, which we received from the HolyGhost at our confirmation, be increased 100 fold. Along with the other gifts. Wear our sacramentals. I got six boxes of salt blessed by the FFI (I knew my pastor would think I had lost it completely) Thanks again for writing all that. God bless you. Ecclesia Vivat! (Long live the Church) Good slogan to pass around.
Thanks for posting those paragraphs. I find them extremely clear and showing how far gone from true Catholicism the Church has strayed. How could Archbishop Tartaglia read that and still say what he did to those Protestant leaders and the rabbi?
Do they not have a right to hear the truth, even if they reject it?
Mortalium Animos was published less than 30 years before Vatican II and it merely re-stated the constant Tradition of the Church since the time of the Apostles. Pius XI proved all his arguments from Sacred Scripture and the Fathers of the Church.
IT WAS NOT CITED ONCE in Vatican II’s decree on ecumenism – Unitatis Redintegratio. (or as I prefer to call it Unitatis Disintegratio!!)
If anybody wants any proof that there is no continuity between much of Vatican II and the Catholic Faith, this is surely one of the finest examples.
The archbishop obviously accepts uncritically the neomarxist freemasonry which has been smuggled in to the Church. It is a totally false road and its destination is hell.
I’ve never seen anything written about a reaction to the establishment of a “Secretariat for Christian Unity” shortly after Roncalli was elected, with the liberal Cardinal Bea at its head.
“Christian unity” was defined over and over again by faithful Popes – to your knowledge, did anyone in the hierarchy raise a red flag over the appearance of this Secretariat (which turned out to be the breeding-ground for ecumenism)? Did anyone ask why the Church needed this?
I think this Secretariat was the first Trojan Horse, even before the Council got underway.
I am not aware of any reaction to the establisihment of the Secretariat specifically. I know a number of the Council Fathers were very concerned about the influence which Bea had acquired. Obviously after the Council there was the reaction of ++ Lefebvre, +Castro Meyer and also Cardinal Siri with regards to the direction which the Church was taking.
However, back then I think there was much more reluctance in the hierarchy to be perceived as being critical of anything which the pope did. Hyperultramontanism ruled the roost then as it still does in most places now.
So true! Christ came down to earth and established one Church. The others, established by men, shouldn’t be called churches. They have all turned away from the True and fly along on their own ideas. Blasphemy….
One can read about Apostolic Succession on Wikipedia!
I feel very strongly about this ecumenism and interfaith business. When you have an archbishop talking as if every religion is equal, you have to ask how they can wonder at the lapsation rate. Who would want to be a Catholic, with the restrictions that brings (no contraception, no abortion etc), when it really doesn’t matter, when God is fine with whatever religion. To quote the Archbishop of Glasgow, “it’s ultimately God that directs and nourishes us in our daily lives and on different perspectives of certain issues, God is talking and guiding us all in our daily lives.”
No wonder Mary Anne says ecumenism is a sin. If God really has given us the Catholic Church and he wants everyone in it, then is really must be a sin for a member of the Catholic hierarchy to say otherwise, especially to people in other religions!
Ecumenism was planned long before Vatican 2 by the enemies of the one true church who have long since planned for a one world church, and a one world government.
By our own intellects we should come to the conclusion there can be only two answers either all religions are false ( because they all have different teachings ) or one is true and the rest are false.
We know Christ started the Church and every other religion was began by men.
The bishop should be reminded of the first commandment, it is the first commandment for a reason, it is the most important.
Our posts went up at the same time and just reading yours, all I can say is “hear hear!”
“I am the Lord Thy God. Thou shalt not have other Gods before Me. ” I hadn’t even thought of that. It makes things simple when you read the first commandment. God didn’t mean for His Church to be complicated for us. As Fr. John Corapi said once “The Catholic Church is not rocket science” Thanks John for this!!
error correction: It should be “…Thou shalt not have false gods before Me”
Pope Pius XI can say what he likes but Pope Francis has a different view (as did Pope John XXIII, JP II, Paul VI and Benedict)
Pope Francis talks about Christians as if there is no difference between Catholics and the post-reformation Protestants, even talks about them being martyrs
I’ve never been to one of these interfaith or ecumenical services but if I did, I would feel that obeying the laws of the Church, such as Mass attendance, were not that important. No wonder so many have lapsed.
Yes, exactly: the Magisterial documents of Tradition mean nothing to Francis and his post-Conciliar predecessors. In fact, as far as these men are concerned, they don’t even exist except as forgotten Museum pieces.
I shudder to think that Pope Francis spoke about the Church not becoming a museum piece as if clinging to Tradition makes it a museum piece. There is no faith there, not in a Catholic understanding.
The Archbishop is actually mouthing not-very-thinly-disguised Freemasonry, which is not surprising since Freemasonry has controlled and obscured the Church, as they themselves boast, since Vatican II.
“All members must believe in a deity. Different religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.) acknowledge the same God, only call Him different names. Freemasonry invites people of all faiths, even if they use different names for the ‘Nameless One of a hundred names,’ they are yet praying to the one God and Father of all.”
Ecumenism and religious indifferentism are two closely related rotten fruits of the same apostate tree – both, as John points out above, hatched, promoted and promulgated by the enemies of the Church.
That quote from Freemasonry sent a shiver down my spine.
I also agree that ecumenism and religious indifference are closely related. It stands to reason. If people think one religion is as good as another, then it also stands to reason that no religion is as good as any! We don’t need religion if they’re all the same, all man-made and God is guiding everyone anyway.
I used to think I wasn’t all that bright, but even I can see that ecumenism can only damage faith. If I can see it, how come the Archbishop of Glasgow can’t – surely he’s cleverer than me, LOL!
“…surely he’s cleverer than me, LOL!”
I notice that in paragraph 2, the Archbishop fails to mention “mosques”….perhaps because his homily not only fails the Catholic smell test, it even fails the logic smell test:
“…no matter what religion we are loyal to it’s ultimately God that directs and nourishes us in our daily lives and on different perspectives of certain issues, God is talking and guiding us all in our daily lives.”
Pray tell, Your Excellency, how Muslims intent on murdering, by various barbaric means, innocent Christians and Jews are directed, nourished and guided by God. Do you mean to tell us that the same God worshiped by murdered Christians and Jews also told their Muslim murderers to commit their foul deeds?
Kudos for all your posts here, but this last one is the prize-winner, LOL!
I agree totally with you – you are clear-minded and your posts always put it in a nutshell !
I think that clear-mindedness is absent in the ecumaniacs, for obvious reasons. The Archbishop of Glasgow has not uttered a Catholic word in that talk at the interfaith event and that can only mean one thing. He doesn’t believe the Catholic religion.
I only part company with those who would accuse him of malice because I actually think that bishops like him, truly believe that they do have the Catholic faith and that previous popes, like Pius XI in Mortalium Animos, got it wrong by banning ecumenical activities. Archbishop Tartaglia will honestly believe that times have changed and he will think they’ve changed for the better because the religious leaders are working together, holding these services etc. Archbishop Conti, who is also mentioned in the SCO report, was the arch-ecumaniacs, and he definitely would support a one-world Church – even a one-world religion – IMHO. These bishops really do believe we’ve made progress and they can now meet for coffee with other non-Catholic and non-Christian leaders and convince each other that things have really moved on thanks to the ecumenical movement.
It’s really fantasy stuff, you are completely right, but maybe their ignorance is such that it will keep them out of Hell. We can only pray for them so that is the case.
I recall one blogger – or should I say troll – 2 or 3 years ago who displayed exactly the attitude you speak of, that the previous Popes had got it wrong. This troll went as far as to claim that Pope St. Pius X’s authorship of Pascendi demonstrated that he had a “Reds under the bed” mentality!
As for nice, pleasant, well-liked prelates being kept out of Hell, I hope so too, but if they fail to do their jobs because they are actually embarrassed by the real Faith, then the eternal future doesn’t look so good for them….
Second example of “previous Popes got it wrong,” emanating from the Vatican II mentality: remember when Cardinal Ratzinger called Gaudium et Spes a “countersyllabus”?
It’s not about “malice” – it’s about ignorance of the faith. If the Archbishop of Glasgow really doesn’t know about the teaching in Mortalium Animos and that this has always been the teaching of the Church, then he should know.
As I’ve read on here before, if ignorance of the law is no excuse in a court of human law, how much more must that be true of God’s law?
I don’t wish him or anyone else Hell, but that is inevitable for anyone who flouts God’s will. It cannot be God’s will for everyone to pick their own religion, and he should be saying that if he goes to these interfaith events.
Sorry, just thought of the reason why +T failed to mention mosques: he was speaking in a synagogue! But his homily is nonetheless absurd on its face.
Your latest gem went up with my answer to you – I didn’t think of the link between synagogue and mosque, LOL! You are probably right!
Without certainties nor rectitude, religion has no meaning; it is no longer in the economy of salvation. It constitutes, at best, a simple fraternal community from which all perspectives of eternity are evacuated, and this does not necessarily correspond to what the faithful aspire… Is it not simply a matter of a spiritual misappropriation?
It`s a pity he hadn`t asked the Rabbi when they intend ending their holocausting of the Palestinians.
You nailed it with the link to Freemasonry. Archbishop Tartaglia and his brother ecumenists in the hierarchy are pursuing the Masonic agenda for a one-world religion, a secular religion devoid of doctrine and sacraments. In other words, it is a worldly programme of social work with worldy ends dressed up to look supernatural. It’s fake Christianity that all who value their eternal salvation should utterly reject.
Ecumenism is straight from the drawing board of the “Father of Lies”, it suppresses divine truth and makes God and His holy Church out to be liars, all in the name of human respect.
So-called Christians who embrace ecumenism have either lost the gift of divine faith or never possessed it, having chosen the Tower of Babel over the truth of God. The Church has frequently condemned the heresy of ecumenism as one of the most pernicious of errors, a certain destroyer of the true religion and one of the worst sins against charity since it confirms those who are in religious falsehood instead of seeking to convert them for their soul’ salvation.
Pope Francis has broken with previous popes, causing ‘heresies, schisms’: Vatican theologian (source: Life site news)
Msgr. Bux pointed out that the tendency of this pontificate to be silent in the face of criticism, or refuse to engage the charges of heresy or apostasy, bring to mind St. Pius X’s warning in his 1907 encyclical Pascendi dominici gregis : That never “clearly confessing one’s own heresy” is “typical behaviour of the modernists, because in this way they can hide themselves within the Church.”
“Great change” in the Church is “palpable” under Pope Francis, Msgr. Bux said, along with a “clear intention to mark a line of discontinuity, or break, with previous pontificates.” Such a rupture, he went on to say, is a “revolution” that “generates heresies, schisms, and controversies of various kinds” and “all of them can be traced back to sin.”
Have you noticed that the “bishops’ help is not anymore in the name of the Lord”? (Psalm 124:8)
Your quite correct in saying ecumenism suppresses divine truth it seems some bishops want to suppress The Traditional Latin Mass.
The pope did say he wanted to change the Church so it could not be reversed!
The last Ecumenical Service I was at and I certainly wouldn’t go back was when the Moderator of the Kirk got up to speak. And boy did she not half talk some Garbage. She would in one Sentence call God Man and in another call God Woman and this went on for about 20minutes . Nothing I have is in Common with the Protestants. The Muslims. The Jews and Uncle Tom Cobley and all . That’s what was the final straw for me with Francis . I was willing to let the ” who am I to Judge ” Garbage go by but when he joined the Lutherans that was it cheerio Francis. After lauding Luther for a week then them all going to the Vatican with that Horrible Statue it was Time up . These Men are men of the World and are working toward a NWO as far as am concerned their welcome to it .
Simply on the level of human respect, without even considering this trashing of the Catholic Faith, I wonder if His Excellency realizes that he, and all who run up the white flag with him, are objects of ridicule among our so-called “positive relationship” friends of other faiths.
I wish an honest Jew and/or an honest Protestant would come on here and tell us how they view this disgraceful groveling. The Jews denounce the Church as “supersessionist,” and the Protestants denounce the Church as the “whore of Babylon”! Harmony? Unity?
Either you need a new dictionary, Archbishop, or you’ve already written a new one which re-defines everything in a way completely opposed to reality.
(We already know how the Muslims view this: they’ve announced that they plan to kill Francis anyway, despite all his pathetic, delusional overtures about their “religion of peace” and opening Europe to “migrants.”)
Regarding the last sentence in you post, I noted when in Rome this year that they now have airport security outside St. Mary Major’s Basilica. I have been to Rome on and off for 20 years and never seen this level of security, including armed soldiers on the streets. And of course the Vatican has had the airport scanner in place for years with all entrances bar one closed. I remember just walking up to the Vatican and having a choice of entrances without all the security. Now the crowds are tailed back several hundreds of yards three abreast waiting to go through the scanner. So much for the open door policy to migrants!
It’s actually beyond belief that a bishop would say such things. I think informed Protestants do realise that from the Pope downwards they are off the rails. A Baptist friend asked me :”Is it just the media or is Pope Francis really saying all this marxist stuff?”.
RCA Victor, when did Muslims announce that they plan to kill Pope Francis?!
Here’s one article about it: https://www.inquisitr.com/1488872/isis-reportedly-planning-terror-attack-on-pope-at-vatican-security-increased/
I checked out Victor’s link to masons and this jumped out at me:
“If a man has bought into the Masonic lie that all men worship the same god, simply using a variety of different names, then he cannot be worshiping in truth. Therefore, he cannot be worshiping God when he goes into the lodge. Therefore, he cannot be worshiping God when he goes into the lodge.”
methinks therefore that the Archbishop better review his beliefs.
Beloved Catholic brethren why not join the Orthodox Church. After the Popes messed with the Trinity and rendered the Holy Spirit unequal to the Father and the Son because He has no part in the Causation of the Procession of Himself and thus creating two centres of causation in the Trinity instead of the Father only, can the Catholic Church really invoke the Holy Spirit and does it really have the Eucharist? As the Catholic Church unravels over the centuries is it not time today to join that Church which is still anchored in the Church and Tradition of the early Church. Sincere question?
Are you referring by any chance to the “Russian Orthodox church”, the church whose Patriarchs were also KGB agents during the Cold War? Just wondering.
Patriarchs/KGB agents – LOL!
Seriously, I don’t understand the differences between the Greek Orthodox and the Russian Orthodox and the Serbian Orthodox – how can they all be orthodox, LOL! They can’t all be right. If orthodox means right belief, they can’t all be orthodox if they have different beliefs!
Exactly so! They are like the Protestant Sects, all 265 or so of them, each claiming to be the true religion. They are all fragmented in belief yet completely united against one common enemy – The Holy Catholic Church. Very telling!
I wonder if you would find this short video conversation of interest; it is a chat between two former Protestants who converted to the Catholic religion, while feeling attracted to Orthodoxy. If you listen closely, you’ll see what makes the difference – no matter how much someone might like the liturgy, they want the Pope more – not necessarily this pope, I hasten to add, but let’s not go there! We’ve had bad popes from the start, but God, in His plan of salvation, wants us to adhere to the Vicar of Christ on this earth… noting that, if we do land with a bad pope, we have the entirety of antiquity, Tradition, on which to draw. We follow him when he is teaching the Faith as it has always been taught, from the beginning, if he is teaching what has been believed by all Christians everywhere, always, at all times – not just since the 11th century…
To answer your question simply and equally as sincerely, we don’t join the Orthodox Church because it isn’t Catholic! No doubt that seems harsh (and I’ve been accused of being harsh before), but I refer you to an excellent book by a 19th c. Russian theologian named Vladimir Soloviev called Russia and the Universal Church. This book explains in great historical detail, and with remarkable depth of insight, why (a) your refusal to recognize and obey St. Peter as Christ’s Vicar is wrong, and (b) why it is therefore impossible for your church to claim to be “anchored in the Tradition of the early Church.”
Said refusal, by the way, has resulted in at least two things: the Bolshevik Revolution, and one of the major messages of Our Lady of Fatima, who warned that the “errors of Russia” would spread throughout the world if Russia was not consecrated to her Immaculate Heart.
As for the “unraveling” of the Church, this period is known to Catholics as “the Passion of the Church,” or, “the Passion of Our Lord’s Mystical Body.” To abandon His Mystical Body during this Passion is tantamount to abandoning Him during His physical Passion. No thank you.
Bolshevik Revolution: Russia suffers for her rebellion against the Church.
Errors of Russia: spread, not only throughout the world, but throughout the Church.
Consecration: still not done.
Which “Orthodox Church”? Now that the Patriarchs of Moscow and Constantinople have de facto excommunicated each other over Ukraine’s striving for autocephaly which one is the true “Orthodox Church”?
Should we really fly from a pope who wants to legitimize the heresy of divorce and remarriage merely to unite ourselves with churches which have already apostatized over this same false doctrine centuries ago? Why would we want to reject the one source of catholicity in this world and embrace the heresy of phyletism all for the sake of one more in a long history of inadequate/evil popes?
Now with the introduction of ordaining women in parts of the “Orthodox” world you are fated to become just another ape of the Anglican communion. Thanks, but no thanks.
The Orthodox Church is schismatic. They are not guaranteed the guidance of the Holy Spirit in the say the Catholic Church is guaranteed his guidance.
No Catholic would dream of leaving the one, true Church to join a schismatic group.
You need to return to the Faith of your Fathers! You’re welcome!
So true, but they think they are the original church, that’s the problem.
This latest tripe from +Tartaglia is likely his worst since claiming St John Ogilvie died for “religious freedom”.
His waffle demonstrates exactly why the Church in Scotland is such a stagnant and moribund institution.
The protestant sects in Scotland are on life support and will probably pass into history within a few short decades. What will +Tartaglia – or, more likely, his successor – do then? If there are no protestants to fawn over and praise, he will find himself fresh out of ideas for things to do, which i a terrible indictment of a Catholic Bishop.
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