England: Synod To Discuss Women Priests…Inching Closer to Open Schism?
One of our English bloggers emailed this report from Gloria TV
I then checked out the website of the Diocese of Liverpool to find out more about their Synod 2020
If the Gloria TV analysis is correct, then somebody needs to remind Archbishop McMahon that he has no authority whatsoever to “make decisions” about the ordination of women – he must uphold the Church’s prohibition. But what if he doesn’t do that? IS the Church in England – certainly in the Diocese of Liverpool – heading for a complete break with the Catholic Church, given that male-only ordination is a teaching which the Church has absolutely no authority to change?
The address from the Archbishop in the short video clip below, plus the comments from the priests and lay leaders reveals nothing new. They talk for around 7 minutes and say nothing. It’s all the usual generic posturing. Buzz words abound, but nothing concrete is said. They all want everyone to know they are “called and gifted by God” but don’t give any concrete examples about what they are all called and gifted to do. One of the priests mentions “catechising stuff” in passing but – again – without defining what that means. Still, we all know what it most certainly does NOT mean – it doesn’t mean teaching the Faith entire and true; that Christ founded only one Church to be the Ark of Salvation and that is the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church. Below, the short video clip portrays the usual mix of confused but well-meaning laity and the totally clueless young priests, God help them. No disrespect intended just, what they term these days, “speaking truth to power”… 😀
Comments invited…
Comments (58)
Well it appears we have a Pope who is quite prepared to undermine Catholic teaching https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/openly-gay-priest-claims-pope-francis-affirmed-his-homosexuality-in-private-phone-call so it’s not surprising that bishops are as well. There’s been a de facto schism for years – I think that things are polarising now and the wheat is being sorted from the chaff. Before long, you’ll either have to accept the whole Francischurch/womenpriest/gaypriest/climatechange/pachamama caboodle, or none of it, and stick with Tradition. I think we’re in for a bumpy ride folks.
WF
Agreed. If the reports about Liverpool are correct, they are on the brink of making their choice – by making the wrong “decisions”.
And I’m wondering if the Diocese of Motherwell in Scotland is following suit. I received news a few days ago of the death of the well known “gay” activist priest, Fr John Breslin, who outed himself publicly some years ago, both in his parish and in the (so-called) Catholic Times, Long before it became the fashion, he was participating in LGBT+ marches (in England, as it happens) and he allowed his address in Glasgow to be used by the Paedophile Information Exchange (effectively a Paedophile rights group) – yet here’s how the Diocesan Facebook page reports his death, on 29 December, 2019…
https://www.facebook.com/rcmotherwell/posts/2459765447611940
“Faithful servant”?
Ed as one who comes from Motherwell one announcement doesn’t mean we’re all Pro Homosexuals. Personally I didn’t know Fr Breslin and if he’s not Confessed his Sins before Death ( which I would very much doubt) then he has Dug his own grave so to speak. As for my own Parish we have a Priest who spoke out about the So called changes wanting to be made by Francis and of the Pachamama. So please don’t put us all up as Pro Homosexuals we most certainly are Not .
FOOF
Your latest comment puzzles me for two reasons.
Firstly, Fr Breslin obviously did not consider homosexual activity to be a sin or he’d hardly have “outed” himself to his parishioners and in the Catholic Times. Those who are “gay activists” consider homosexual activity to be a right – not a sin.
Secondly, I cannot see that I’ve said anywhere that all those living in the Diocese of Motherwell are pro-homosexuals… (or, to quote you, “don’t put us all up as Pro-Homosexuals.”)
Where did I say that? Please quote my words, verbatim because I can’t find anything, even the slightest suggestion, that I said such a thing.
Please enlighten me. Thank you.
Ed,
I don’t mean to ‘butt in’, but FOOF was the person who said vegans probably classed Halal Meat as part of a vegan diet, so do you see a pattern developing?
CC,
FOOF is not only one of my own favourite bloggers but he’s a big hit with the readers of this blog, who love his down to earth approach to topics, not to mention his novel turn of phrase(s). So, enjoy it when you see a pattern developing…
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fd/72/13/fd721350a536aca212ac136087e6aa75.jpg
I apologise, heat of The Moment, at least that’s my excuse. So sorry once again.
I don’t know if you read the BBC website yesterday it actually ran a Post on the Horrors of Animal Slaughter Houses. As one who has worked in a Slaughter House their way out but my Question to them is why don’t they do an article on Human Slaughter Houses. IE Abortion Centres. Of course they always get their priorities correct.
FOOF,
All is forgiven. Worry not.
You are a star!
If there’s such a shortage of priests in that diocese, why not give the parishes over to the flourishing traditional orders – a strategy which has seemingly worked well in other dioceses? No, I think some people would rather have lay-led eucharistic services and even women ‘priests’ than the Traditional Latin Mass.
I also think it’s just become par for the course to eulogise deceased clergy (and laity) these days – whatever they’ve done. We all go to Heaven nowadays, apparently. Don’tcha know that?
Westminster Fly,
“Don’tcha know that?” LOL! We should definitely know that by now!
One of the commenters under the GloriaTV article posted this:
https://image-media.gloria.tv/placidus/k/lb/liaikexysoihfvj7fysqq4jdlfvj7fysqq4jh.jpg
Married male priesthood (oh wait, doesn’t that still promote the dreaded patriarchy?), women deacons, and “ultimately women priests.” Why not “non-binary” deacons and priests, while you’re at it? How about goats and pigs too? I mean, if you’re going to surrender, stop being mealy-mouthed about it and go for the gold!
Since, as I understand it, there is a large population of Muslims in Liverpool, at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to see this Synod propose ordaining Muslims to the priesthood as well. I’m sure Pope Francis would be seized with paroxysms of joy at that news.
I wonder how John, Paul, George and Ringo would feel about all this? Looks like their degenerate legacy lives on.
RCA Victor,
I don’t think anyone can be surprised at anything that goes on in Liverpool under this archbishop, I always think if you want to know what kind of bishop or priest someone is, just check The Tablet. This is a description of his favourite church
A favourite church of Archbishop Malcolm McMahon’s is round, with the altar in the centre and huge panels of abstract stained glass on the walls. Built in the early 1960s, St Mary’s, in the industrial town of Leyland, Lancashire, has remarkable Stations of the Cross. Roman soldiers wear swastikas, women are in modern dress and a local workman helps Christ to carry his Cross. Even more unconventionally, there is a fifteenth Station showing the Resurrection.
https://www.thetablet.co.uk/features/2/15775/malcolm-mcmahon-the-listening-archbishop
He must be one of the worst in England – and that’s saying something.
I can’t help wondering why we’re not having these synods in Scotland. Maybe that’s a joy lying ahead for us, LOL!
MM.
That’s a very good point – check with The
PillTablet if you want to get the lowdown on any bishop. If he’s popular with that rag, we know for sure that he’s bad news!I had forgotten all about those Stations of the Cross in Leyland. Now it comes back to me that the producer of those Stations was a rabid leftie who used them to promote his Marxism. If that church in Leyland is this Archbishop’s favourite church then it speaks volumes to me about what kind of a man he is. To me it is little wonder at all that he supports women priests and a whole host of Protestant ideals.
Ugh!
RCA Victor,
That list reminds of the preparation for the youth synod in the Diocese of Paisley where the uncatechised youth were being invited to run the diocese, after handing in similar lists to the one you’ve posted. Instead of taking the opportunity to educate their people, these bishops are humouring them, allowing them to think that everything is up for grabs, and thus raising false hopes that a new entirely youth-centred, man-made Church is on the way.
Gimme strength.
Editor,
It’s not merely a loss of faith: it’s a loss of reason as well. The same cheap trick was tried in the recent Youth Synod of unhappy memory: “Tell us what we need to know, O Youth! We know nothing, and you know everything!”
Well, they got the first half right…
RCA Victor,
Reminds me of a poster I used to display in my classroom… “Ask a teenager while he still knows everything!”
PS: I just noticed that this Synod is also going by the name of “Discernment meeting.” What better proof than this, that those who are diabolically disoriented – either by their sins or the prevailing zeitgeist – are, above all, blind to the truth, and incapable of discerning anything but lies?
Very true, dear Editor. They say nothing worth hearing. Hot air and vapid bloviations. We’ve heard all this stuff before and repeated for decades! When will these good people begin to understand that Catholic life is not about forward planning, endless meetings, drawing up charters and ‘where do we go from here?’ head-scratching? Faith is about being; being in Christ our Lord, first and foremost. These people are hooked on the sensation of movement, of busy activism. How very ‘woke’.
Oliver G. Stoops,
Your comment reminds me of an elderly priest I met in Aberdeen who once said (referring to some difficult parishioners) that “Christ came NOT to launch a committee!”
These modernists are simply going round in circles. It’s really a case now of the last person left remembering to turn off the lights!
Women can never have access to the Priesthood, because it is not included in the plan of God.
Even if a bishop was to conduct an “ordination”, it would not be valid, it would be a travesty and sacrilege which, in my opinion, would be of an extreme gravity as there would be a risk of rupture in the “apostolic succession”. That we must fear most.
“Ordination” of women is simply impossible, because it was not planned from the outset.
Lionel
You are absolutely correct. That ordination is reserved to males only, and this teaching cannot be changed, is spelled out in Pope John Paul II’s Apostolic Letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, to which I’m posting a link for the doubting Thomases!
http://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_letters/1994/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_19940522_ordinatio-sacerdotalis.html
After destroying the Mass, they attack the Priesthood and the matter is closed!
There is something to abandon everything, confronted with the delusions of these felonious Authorities who operated the most gigantic “spiritual misappropriation” of all the History of humanity, infamous doctrines that many holy predecessors of John XXIII had already remarkably fought against…
Now, when I think of the bishops brought together in this disastrous Vatican II Council, it comes to my mind these words of Isaiah taken again by Saint John 12,40: “He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them!” What an appalling responsibility!
Lionel and Editor,
However, regarding women’s “ordination,” among may other things, the Modernist termites in the Church have clearly adapted the technique of Joseph Goebbels:
“If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.”
UPDATE: Someone has left the following message on the same Gloria TV page. The commentor states that the document posted mentioning women priests was not from the diocese itself, but from a parish within the diocese:-
“Those (admittedly dreadful) notes are from one parish in Penwortham. Not the synod. Every parish, pastoral area and interest group is preparing their own submissions before any synod decisions are opened for wider discussions. At the outset it was made clear that only suggestions within the competence of a local diocese would reach the final stage. Some of these suggestions don’t meet Abp McMahon’s criteria.”
WF,
That’s something – a stay of execution. Still shows the dissent bubbling away there in Penwortham, wherever that may be!
Actually, I know someone from Penwortham (its right near Preston) and he said that it isn’t that bad up there – they have a fairly good provision for the TLM in or around those parts, courtesy of the ICKSP and others.
It looks like it’s the work of some dissident on a novus ordo parish committee, with an axe to grind. Time will tell to see if any of the dissenting suggestions make it to the final Synod2020 . . .
WF,
I’ve been to Preston. There’s a fantastic chip shop there. So, if Penwortham is nearby, can’t be all bad… near Preston I mean, not the chip shop, though if it’s near the chip shop, that’s too good to be true 😀
I was under the impression that Archbishop MacMahon was friendly towards the TLM? He ordained some priests in the Old Rite and celebrated Mass. He even wore a Cappa Magna.
CC,
If that is true, then I’m proven right yet again – there IS no end to the confusion in the minds of these modern bishops. No end at all…
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-luT80GXiiaM/UE4og-IzAFI/AAAAAAAACZQ/NNcD3HJ5mAc/s1600/49398927132871438c3giaXg7c.jpg
CC,
You are correct that ++McMahon is open to the TLM – there is a regular Diocesan TLM and the Bishop has even had such masses in his Cathedral.
And of course you mention the ordinations etc.
(I thought the ICKSP Church in Wirral was in his Diocese too, but its turns out that is Shrewsbury. The SSPX are in Liverpool too, I have attended their mass there on one occasion).
As Editor says, it is yet another sign of the confusion which reigns in the minds of modern Bishops.
Ahhh… another synod. Time to rearrange the deck chairs on a sinking ship.
What I have realised recently is the fact that our so called Traditional Bishops are nothing of the sort. This is the same Bishop who has celebrated Latin Mass at FSSP Warrington .
Here in Portsmouth Bishop Egan recently ordained priests according to the 1962 books. However, in a recent parish visitation, he praised the Liturgical Dancing and contemporary music provided at the Mass.
In other words these Bishops will be anything to anyone. They resemble Anglican Bishops who go about their Diocese visiting different churches under their jurisdiction. In one church they’ll dress in academic robes for Mattins using Cramner English before continuing on to a High Anglican parish for the celebration of Pontifical Mass & Benediction.
I am now attending SSPX chapels as you know what you’re getting. They call a spade a spade.
Leonard,
You got it in one. They are keen to be, to (mis)quote St Paul “all things to all modernists” and, at the same time “all things to all traditionalists”.
Actually, come to think of it, St Paul put it better, more concisely, when he said “all things to all men” but then again, he didn’t have equality acts to deal with or lawyers threatening court action if he forgot to add: “…all men, women, transgenders, etc”.
How much more simple was life in the 1st century?
Leonard,
Great post, you are so right about the Bishops trying to be all things to all men.
And indeed about how the SSPX is a great choice for Catholics.
Synods here,
Synods there
Synods ,Synods everywhere. Meaningless claptrap. Going and getting nowhere.
Our Editor has asked me to let you know that due to broadband problems with her computer, she is unable to keep her beady eyes on us. But, like Arnold Schwarzenegger she will be back, as soon as the problem has been fixed. Meanwhile the spies are out watching.
Theresa Rose,
Thanks for the warning, LOL! We’d all better behave ourselves!
So many Catholic blogs, including this one, criticise Novus Ordo clergy. However, we need to organise ourselves more effectively to make a difference. At the moment when we raise liturgical abuse with the clergy we are ignored and labelled trouble makers.
Ideas:
– live the Catholic Faith. Daily Rosary, regular confession, pilgrimages, helping the disabled, praying for the dead etc.
– Stop giving money to the Diocese via the Sunday collection plate. Even if your Bishop is sympathetic to Tradition (+Hopes, Egan et al) remember that Diocesan funds help build ugly churches, pay lay busybody staff and support dodgy charities. Instead give to the FSSP, SSPX or another traditional society which, because they haven’t been going that long, often do not have legacies to rely on.
– only attend the Traditional Latin Mass. It is best we group together rather than attend a Novus Ordo parish, trying to fight our battle alone.
– write to priests who say the Traditional Mass as they are often underappreciated
Any further ideas?
Leonard,
With all due respect, I think we know that we need to live the Catholic faith as you describe it, even if we don’t all live up to it (speaking for myself)
What we can’t work out is how to waken up the laity still attending the novus ordo. Nothing seems to faze them at all, no matter how much scandal there is, no matter how often some of them are told about how the new Mass came to be created and for what purpose, nothing seems to bother them. How do we deal with that, apart from praying for them which is taken as read.
Margaret Mary,
Just a guess, but I think the vast majority of laity who are going to awaken, have already awakened, left the Protestantized prison and returned to Tradition. There are probably an unknown quantity who care deeply about the Faith who, for one reason or another, can’t get out.
While I’m making gross generalizations, I’d be willing to bet that most of those who remain do so because it’s so easy for them to be “Catholic.” Mass is casual and irreverent, a celebration of men, not a liturgical sacrifice, the sermons are secularized cutesy-pie reflections on worldly or emotional topics, and best of all, some of them get to parade themselves up to the pulpit to read the Epistle, lead the “cantoring,” or bring up the “gifts,” so everyone can see how pious they are. And Deacon Hairspray even gets to deliver the “homily”!
As proof of this, I remember what kind of uproar there was when Benedict XVI tried to trim away some of this “active participation.” The Novus Ordo is nothing more than an ego trip appealing to the lowest within us, and they may as well sit in a circle around the ironing board and roast marshmallows instead of play-acting as though what they’re doing is actually pleasing to God.
Furthermore, if you speak to them bluntly like that, they become highly indignant and start accusing you of various sinful attitudes and violations of Church law.
As for me, the way I found Tradition was that a Novus Ordo friend, who found himself unable to break away from his home parish and Deacon Hairspray, took me to a TLM about 2.5 years after I returned to the Church. It was a faith-changing experience. About 4 years later, I said a permanent farewell to the Novus Ordo world. Unfortunately, my friend remained there until his death.
RCA Victor,
You have described my parish to a T ! It’s incredible that they don’t see the difference between the novus ordo and a traditional Mass.
Even the priests in the dioceses who offer the TLM, still say the NO and even use altar girls to serve their NO Masses. Unless people vote with their feet and attend the nearest SSPX church, however imperfect it may be and they nearly all are, you just don’t get away from novus ordo land. You get stuck there and get used to the laxity. You’ll know that yourself, from your friend who died as a novus ordo Catholic. The thought is terrifying.
Josephine,
I should have added that in addition to the Novus Ordo appealing to the worst in us (i.e. our pride), it pretends to appeal to the best in us, i.e. our spiritual aspirations and obedience to the Church. That”s what makes it so insidious. It’s sugar-coated arsenic….which I suppose is another way to say
TROJAN HORSE!
RCA Victor,
I agree with Josephine that “It is incredible that they don’t see the difference between the novus ordo and the traditional Mass”.
I also agree that priests in the dioceses who offer the Traditional Latin Mass, still say the NO and even using altar girls to serve their NO Masses. Recently I had occasion to attend a TLM at a parish in my Diocese. When I entered the Church the NO Mass had ended but there was the altar girl still clearing things away.
The man who was to serve the TLM then had to set up everything prior to the Mass beginning, and ensure that kneelers where in place to allow those to kneel for receiving Communion.
Therein lies the problem, because the priest has a foot in both camps and surely he must have a crisis of conscience.
I know lay people who are old enough to remember attending the TLM, and, who say the do not and never understood it. They don’t grasp that it is a Sacrifice and the Bloodless Calvary.
Also that the Mass was in Latin and the priest had his back to the congregation you can’t see what he is doing nor hear what he is saying. There is no participation.
But the NO allows me to participate by leading “bidding prayers” or doing something else in the Sanctuary.
They cannot grasp that if I use my missal and follow the TLM which gives the English side by side to Latin where my mind, heart and soul is lifted up to God. But, maybe I am not explaining things to well.
Theresa Rose,
I’m going to disagree with you and Josephine on a small point, but only because it leads to a much larger point, to which you have clearly alluded in your post.
I think that anyone with an IQ that exceeds their shoe size can tell the difference between the NO and the TLM, a difference which is about as dramatically stark as the difference between Boris Johnson and Theresa May.
The problem is not that the NO inmates can’t see the difference: the problem is that they can see (or sense) that the TLM is not about them, whereas the NO is completely about them!
So the real problem is that the pride-feeding expectations that the NO creates are not fulfilled, or even referred to, in the TLM. “What!!?? We can’t look and act important in this musty old Mass? Forget it!”
RCA VICTOR,
That makes sense – The real problem is that the pride-feeding expectations that the NO creates are not fulfilled, or even referred to, in the TLM.
RCA VICTOR,
That makes sense and I see what you mean when you say that “the real problem is that the pride-feeding expectations that the NO creates are not fulfilled, or even referred to, in the TLM”.
Pride has a lot to do with it and possibly having that sense of importance in doing something that would not have been considered or allowed before Vatican II.
Theresa Rose,
Just as a sidebar, Protestantism (with which the NO is imbued) and pride both begin with the same letter…. 🙂
Meanwhile, here we are talking about the Mass again! We’d better run for cover before Editor gets back from pubbing and clubbing….besides, I can’t afford to lose any more zeroes off my paycheck….
RCA Victor,
No zeroes deducted, but a couple added for your very insightful comments on the diocesan situation/novus ordo etc.
Theresa Rose,
Thank you for explaining my absence – and for YOUR input to the topic as well.
It is interesting looking at photos of Catholic churches before and after Vatican II.
If side Altars still exist they are now used as places to display flowers. Also, did you know that only cut flowers may be used in church? Pot plants are not sacrificial, not a true offering.
Gone are the statues of the Sacred Heart and the banners used in the May procession.
Who remembers the following? Who even remembers what they are?
– Ex voto
– the Baldacchino
– maniple
– numeral veil (not just used at Benediction)
– burse
Leonard, I never heard of any of those items on your list. Can you elaborate?
Ex voto- precious metal, usually silver offered as a Thanksgiving for prayers answered. Most commonly heart shaped and placed in a lady chapel. Google Warwick street rc church lady chapel which has quite a collection
Baldacchino – canopy over the altar. Eg at Westminster cathedral usually marble
Maniple- strip of material hung on left arm of clergy at mass. Reminds them that they are servants (christvused a cloth when washing disciples feet). Also used historically in hot countries for priest to mop his brow. Lots of symbolic things also have practical purposes.
Humera veil. Used by subdeacon at high mass. Sub deacon takes Patten(small plate on which celebrants host is laid) away during canon of the mass, to return at paternoster. Symbolic of Jews not recognising jesus as God ie being blind. Truth being hidden from them. In a low mass pattern is hidden under corporal (cloth on altar)
Burse- holds corporal when corporal not laid on altar. Corporal catches any fragments of His body and Blood
Here is a photo of a young joseph Ratzinger as subdeacon, wearing a humeral veil
https://www.google.com/search?q=pope+benedict+subdeacon&client=ms-android-ee-uk-revc&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjA7vyV8fTmAhVLh1wKHSWmCzEQ_AUoAXoECA8QAQ&biw=412&bih=734&dpr=1.75#imgrc=6AR5EftjcRwaaM
Thanks. That’s left me gobsmacked!
The ordination of women to the priesthood wouldn’t just be a schismatic act, it would be a repudiation of Christianity and a return to paganism. Historically, only pagan religions had priestesses. Indeed the dictionary definition of ‘priestess’ is “A female priest of a non-Christian religion”. Anglicanism has already made the leap from schismatic Christian back to paganism, there’s zero chance that God will allow His Church to follow them into the exterior darkness despite the intrigue of apostate prelates.
Athanasius,
It is to that hope that we must cling at this time; the very thought of such a break with tradition is terrifying, so we cling to Our Lord’s promise to be with His Church until the end of time.
I very much think that these synods – universally and locally – are just talking shops for boors who like the sound of their own voice.
They just ruminate over the same things – for which the answer is clear, long established and well know – again and again,
The only minor surprise in all this is that its Archbishop McMahon who is behind this. While hardly “Prelate of the century” of anything, he does surprise me here.
Maybe by facilitating this waffle he is hoping to distract people from how hideous his Cathedral (“Paddy’s Wigwam”) is?
Yorkshire is also suffering from the sodomitical propaganda.
https://www.catholicrestorationsociety.com/post/2020-01-07-bishop-drainey-sanctions-sodomite-agenda
P Hellyer,
That’s interesting about Bishop Drainey, but what does that writer mean by “a modernist parish” as opposed to a “Catholic parish”? Is he/she implying that there are diocesan parishes which offer the traditional Latin Mass (the Catholic parish) as opposed to the novus ordo Mass (in the modernist parishes)?
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