Modern Catholics Discuss Liturgical Abuses in New Mass – You Just Couldn’t Make This Stuff Up

Modern Catholics Discuss Liturgical Abuses in New Mass – You Just Couldn’t Make This Stuff Up


This group takes too long to get into the discussion (at least five minutes) but once they get going, it’s very interesting indeed to hear them objecting to some of the very things which were defended and promoted by fellow-parishioners when some of us were doing the complaining.  It’s also interesting to see how the standards have shifted (mostly in a downward direction).  In the end, it dawns on Catholics who are truly thinking it all through, that there is no option but to move on to the traditional Mass – back to the future…  It seems clear that the growth is to be found where the traditional Latin Mass is being offered, so pray for the trio in the video. They obviously mean well.  I liked them as people – so much so that, but for the geography, I’d invite them out for Haggis and Neeps 😀

Anyway, in summary, below are the 15 things which the group in the video argue need to stop happening… or not;  there is some disagreement within the group which offers food for thought, not least because, notably, it is the priest [“Richard” or “Rich” as he seems to introduce himself] who does the disagreeing.  

Clapping (applause)

2 Too many Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion

3 Receiving from the Chalice (“cup”) when sick

4 Leaving seats at sign of peace to “share the peace” with people across the church

5 Socialising before (and after) Mass

6 Phone ringing 

7 Not donating

8 Leaving Mass early

9 Bad preaching (lack of “fire”, not inspiring or nourishing)  [worryingly, the priest in the video is open to laity, including women, preaching.)

10 Receiving Holy Communion in mortal sin

11 Dressing inappropriately – not dressing up for Mass

12 No sanctus bells 

13 Genuflecting to the altar when the Tabernacle is somewhere else

14 I couldn’t hear anything specific, but the conversation went on to discuss baptism/use of “lemonade” type jug  (If I’ve missed something, tell me in the comments…) 

15. Holding hands during Our Father

My own predominant  thought listening to the conversation was that any hope for the future in that diocese lies with the laity, as represented by the two lads on the video not the clergy, as represented by the [very nice and doubtless well-meaning]  priest in the video –  a manifestly modernist priest but one who likes Cardinal Ratzinger!  How much more confusing can this mess get! 

Share your thoughts – politely!  I’ll be posting the link to this thread on their YouTube channel, below the above video, to be precise., so don’t be too hard on these good souls, who are all far too young to have been taught the Faith properly.  They are typical New Catholics tailor made for the New Mass, the New Liturgy, the New Sacraments, the New Catechism, the New Rosary, the New Evangelisation, the New Morality, the New Politically Correct  Pontiff, the New Canonisations, the New Commandments (minus idolatry and adultery) … and the New – you name it.    

Comments (57)

  • editor

    Hi everyone,

    As Theresa Rose explained elsewhere, I’ve been having internet problems since Monday, which I was assured would be fixed within 48 hours. Unfortunately, I’m still having connection problems, so this is a quick visit to explain that I will be back asap but it may be another day or two before I’m fully “with-it” (say nothing!) Thanks to those of you who are keeping conversations ticking over.

    I hope you will all make time to watch the video at the top of this thread. It should motivate us all to pray hard for the graces of insight necessary for all those who are still participating in the new Mass to realise that this Mass cannot be pleasing to God. It was designed with the help of six Protestant ministers to please Protestants! Are there really any Catholics out there who don’t know that by now?

    I’ve now posted the link to this thread over at the YouTube channel where the above video is posted. So, you can bet that we are being watched! Behave!

    January 23, 2020 at 9:20 pm
    • Nicky


      “Haggis and Neeps”? You must be joking! No need to poison them, just because they’re modernists, LOL!

      Seriously, I agree about them being very well meaning etc., but some parts of that discussion were for the birds. How can they not see that it’s not about “too many” EMHC – one is one too many!

      The priest exuding enthusiasm for the female preacher is just from another planet. Doesn’t he know that the reason priests have the duty to preach sermons has nothing to do with talent or a gift for speaking? Also, where there are people and priests allowing this because of the shortage of priests (entirely contrived and not necessary, IMHO) then that soon becomes the norm, as we’ve seen with EMHO which is acknowledged in the discussion on the video.

      Somewhere in his letters, St Paul makes the point that he is not a trained speaker but that he has the knowledge required to preach the truth. That’s what I want to hear in a sermon, not some dramatic show where an “expert” gives us a lecture, no way.

      January 23, 2020 at 10:54 pm
      • Josephine


        I really like Haggis and Neeps, LOL!

        I checked out what you said about St Paul and you are right – it’s in 2 Corinthians 11:6.

        I also did a bit of searching into the office of preaching and found that Pope Benedict XV wrote an encyclical on this subject in 1917

        What jumps out, IMHO, is the emphasis on the preacher as a priest of virtue and learning – if lay people, especially women, were allowed to preach, there would be scandals, without a doubt, as so many are using contraceptives and co-habiting. They need to be hearing sermons, not giving them!

        January 24, 2020 at 12:50 am
      • Laura


        About exceptions becoming the norm – I absolutely agree. Allow a female preacher in parishes somewhere that priests are scarce, and before you know it, they’ll be preaching in every church across the world.

        The Protestant churches have had women clergy and preachers for years and they are not exactly thriving. When will the modernists realise this?

        January 24, 2020 at 11:20 am
    • Josephine


      I have viewed the video and will pray for the two Ryans and Fr Richard Pagano. The sad thing is, they are really trying to be faithful Catholics, but if you begin from the wrong place, you complicate the journey!

      January 24, 2020 at 12:38 am
  • Marc

    I wonder if those individuals in the video are the kind of people that Pope Francis was referring to when he protested, in Evangelii Gaudium, that, “… in some people we see an ostentatious preoccupation for the liturgy”, If, indeed, they are those same people, of whom the Holy Father further remarked, were so, “intransigently faithful to a particular Catholic style from the past”, that it effectively amounted to nothing more than “a narcissistic and authoritarian elitism.” I wonder.

    January 23, 2020 at 10:58 pm
    • Margaret Mary


      I always think the Pope is getting at those who attend the traditional Mass when he makes comments about being too preoccupied with the liturgy, liturgical correctness etc., but maybe you’re right, and he also means anyone who wants to correct liturgical abuses in the new Mass. I’m not sure. You’ve made me think again about that.

      January 23, 2020 at 11:57 pm
    • Faith of Our Fathers

      One thing is for certain although they seem to be Enthusiastic enough Francis certainly doesn’t need to worry about their Rigidity. Personally I think that 50 Minutes of watching this would be a Bridge too Far . No pun intended to the Bridge Builder .

      January 24, 2020 at 11:42 am
      • Michaela

        Faith of our Fathers,

        I agree about them not being “rigid” – the Pope won’t excommunicate them, that’s for sure, LOL!

        January 25, 2020 at 7:06 pm
  • RCAVictor

    I’d never heard of this talk show (rock music and camera-hogging priest included – blech), but i wonder if they would accept another list from us hard-boiled, rigid, mentally unstable, closed-minded traditionalists. So here, in the hip spirit of this talk show, is RCAVictor’s Top Ten Ways to Inch Closer to Tradition:

    1. No altar girls.
    2. Move tabernacle back to the altar (assuming there is one that hasn’t been removed).
    3. Eliminate EMHC’s altogether.
    4, Eliminate receiving the Precious Blood altogether, since it is already contained in Our Lord’s Body.
    5. Ditch the happy-sappy music and bring back Gregorian chant.
    6. Restore the old calendar and its vigils and octaves, starting with getting rid of “Ordinary Time” and calling it what it’s supposed to be.
    7. Turn the priest around to face Our Lord.
    8. Restore reading the Last Gospel (I can’t remember if this has been abolished).
    9. Restore the St. Michael Prayer after all Novus Ordo Masses.
    10. Move the Easter Vigil back to the late afternoon, where it used to be.

    Oh well, I can’t count. Here’s #11:

    11. Restore Septuagesima.

    January 23, 2020 at 11:02 pm
    • Margaret Mary

      RCA Victor,

      If they don’t listen to you, a fellow American, I don’t suppose the rest of us stand a chance, LOL!

      No, the Last Gospel did not get retained in the novus ordo, although one of the English bishops did makes noises about restoring the Prayer to St Michael at the end of Mass, but I don’t know if it ever happened.

      There’s so much that’s been lost in the novus ordo, including the genuflection during the Creed (at “became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and was made man”)

      It’s all so very sad. The Devil must be laughing his head off.

      January 23, 2020 at 11:54 pm
    • Faith of Our Fathers

      Victor if at least 3 of these were elliminated or introduced in the Novus Ordo it would at least be a step in the right direction. Ad go for . Numbers. One Number Three and Number Eight .

      January 24, 2020 at 11:49 am
  • Josephine

    Is it just me, or did anyone else find the statues on the table very odd, indeed irreverent? They’re not the kind of representations of Our Lord and his saints that I would expect from Catholics, to be frank.

    The priest saying lay preaching happened in the early Church, mentioning Scripture etc. stoked a memory in my head of something quoted on this blog more than once, although I can’t remember where – it was a papal encyclical where the Pope was saying it is an error to think we should return to how things were done in the early church, and the use of the table at Mass was one example given. If anyone can remember that and give the link, that would be great.

    January 24, 2020 at 12:34 am
    • RCAVictor


      I think that was Pius XII on “antiquarianism, ” in Mediator Dei (1947).

      January 24, 2020 at 1:07 am
      • Josephine

        RCA Victor,

        Thank you! I have now found the passage, here it is:

        61. The same reasoning holds in the case of some persons who are bent on the restoration of all the ancient rites and ceremonies indiscriminately. The liturgy of the early ages is most certainly worthy of all veneration. But ancient usage must not be esteemed more suitable and proper, either in its own right or in its significance for later times and new situations, on the simple ground that it carries the savor and aroma of antiquity. The more recent liturgical rites likewise deserve reverence and respect. They, too, owe their inspiration to the Holy Spirit, who assists the Church in every age even to the consummation of the world.[52] They are equally the resources used by the majestic Spouse of Jesus Christ to promote and procure the sanctity of man.

        Also in paragraph 62 “it is neither wise nor laudable to reduce everything to antiquity by every possible device. Thus, to cite some instances, one would be straying from the straight path were he to wish the altar restored to its primitive tableform; were he to want black excluded as a color for the liturgical vestments; were he to forbid the use of sacred images and statues in Churches; were he to order the crucifix so designed that the divine Redeemer’s body shows no trace of His cruel sufferings; and lastly were he to disdain and reject polyphonic music or singing in parts, even where it conforms to regulations issued by the Holy See.”

        Obviously, the Pope is not thinking of the new Mass when he speaks of “more recent liturgical rites” – this encyclical was written in 1947, long before the new Mass was created, and the concept of a new Mass put together with the help of six Protestant ministers didn’t enter Pope Pius XII’s head.

        January 24, 2020 at 9:49 am
      • RCAVictor


        Perfect! However, regarding the concept of a new Mass, I read or heard somewhere (might have been in one of the Fr. Gruner/John Vennari videos) that the new Mass, in its essential points, was already developed by the Freemasons back in the 1920’s. I wonder if Pius XII knew about that ominous development?

        January 24, 2020 at 4:08 pm
      • Josephine

        RCA Victor,

        I wouldn’t be surprised at that timeline. The NO didn’t just spring out of nowhere in 1969, that’s for sure.

        January 25, 2020 at 7:40 pm
  • Laura

    TBH, whether or not the three men in the video are well meaning or not, they will still have to account for what amounts to prolonging the revolution in the Church. In the age of the internet, with information, history, encyclicals from popes before the crisis all easily available, there’s really no get out of jail card for any Catholic. The people in the video know enough to know that those things are questionable, not just irritating, so they can take time to study the whole situation, how we got there, where lay people are in the sanctuary, marching about shaking hands, applauding and the rest. None of the things on their list came from the Holy Spirit, obviously, so that alone should give them pause for thought.

    January 24, 2020 at 11:24 am
    • RCAVictor


      You are right, but I doubt there are very many Novus Ordo Catholics (aka victims of the revolution) who are serious enough about the Faith to study it. They are too busy enjoying their self-serving, self-celebrating version of Catholic Lite to care, and moreover would probably thoroughly resent being reminded that what they are doing has about as much to do with God as a typical Protestant sect.

      The revolution has succeeded by appealing to the lowest in human nature: pride and the desire for human respect. So when we narcissistic, authoritarian elitists try to point that out, we are of course treated the way Our Lord was treated by the Pharisees.

      Meanwhile, I have to wonder how, amidst all that jarring rock ‘n roll noise, TV cameras, lights, make-up, etc., anyone can think clearly about anything, let alone about the Faith! Maybe they should start by turning off the noise and “passing the peace” instead….

      January 24, 2020 at 3:33 pm
      • editor

        RCA Victor,

        That’s it – how many modern Catholics are serious enough about the Faith to study the history of the revolution going on a the moment.

        The ones I know are perfectly fine with their choirs, and prayer groups, raising funds for Mary’s Meals and organising pilgrimages to Medjugorje.

        Crisis? What crisis?

        January 24, 2020 at 10:59 pm
      • RCAVictor January 24, 2020 at 11:10 pm
      • Josephine

        RCA Victor,

        Brilliant cartoon! LOL! A picture really does say a thousand words!

        January 25, 2020 at 7:37 pm
    • editor


      That’s an important point and one that is all too often forgotten. Whether or not we are culpable for our ignorance is a key factor in reflecting on guilt/judgment.

      The three in the video above clearly know that there is something wrong; they admitted somewhere along the line that there were a lot more than “15” things that need to stop happening at their Masses, so that, alone, is sufficient to place them in that category which cannot claim genuine ignorance of the crisis in the Church. They need to get down to basics and begin discussing how it came to be that we had a new Mass after centuries of a Mass which sanctified countless saints and martyrs. Their search should lead them to … where Team Bugnini entered the room. Then they scrub the past fifty years and return to Catholic Tradition.


      January 24, 2020 at 10:56 pm
  • RCAVictor

    I’ve now sent the program my list above; will let everyone know if I receive a reply…

    January 24, 2020 at 3:23 pm
    • Josephine

      RCA Victor,

      That’s a great idea – there does seem to be some hope for the men in that group, so you never know.

      January 25, 2020 at 7:38 pm
  • gabriel syme

    It that is good to see this kind of awareness spreading – awareness of liturgical abuses, of trivialisation of the mass etc.

    However, the list of things which “need to stop” could be summed up succinctly as follows:

    1. The Novus Ordo mass

    That’s it.

    January 24, 2020 at 8:34 pm
    • RCAVictor

      Gabriel Syme,

      You have hit the Bugnini Banality on the head!

      January 24, 2020 at 10:18 pm
    • editor

      Gabriel Syme,

      Got it in one!

      January 24, 2020 at 10:52 pm
  • Leonard

    Hi All,

    I want to make it clear that we MUST support traditionalist groups (eg FSSP, SSPX et al) by attending Mass with them.

    Diocesan parishes holding the Traditional Mass are great but all too often priests are moved and things come crashing down. I have personal experience of this.

    With the appointment of a new priest, Traditional Masses can be cancelled, and felt banners brought in.

    To ensure we build things up, have sound catechesis and a future we MUST support traditionalist chapels/churches.

    When we meet regularly, put money into the chapel and socialise with each other we have a real future

    January 25, 2020 at 12:11 pm
    • Josephine


      I understand what you are saying but surely we need to support the priests in the dioceses who have gone to the trouble of learning the TLM and even Bishop Fellay of the SSPX said they should be supported. How else is the Mass to be restored in the parishes?

      January 25, 2020 at 7:39 pm
      • Petrus


        I have to say I agree with Leonard. Bishop Fellay is always quoted when this issue comes up, but he was talking about SSPX priests helping diocesan priests to learn how to say the Traditional Mass. I don’t think he meant that they lay faithful should attend these traditional Masses in parishes. Indeed, the SSPX usually cautions against this and for good reasons.

        January 26, 2020 at 6:09 am
  • Michaela

    It really is sad to listen to the two laymen and the priest in that video. Talk about “no clue”. There are a lot of comments saying return to the traditional Mass under the video, so maybe the penny will drop!

    January 25, 2020 at 7:04 pm
  • Miles Immaculatae

    I disagree wholeheartedly with point 7. The faithful have a duty to provide for the livelihood of their clergy, and this is a precept of the church, binding under penalty of sin, but the clergy do not have an unconditional right to our money. Giving and withholding money is the only real power that lay-people have in the Church. If you give money to a priest you know to be a modernist etc. that is wrong and we clearly have a duty not to donate.

    I refuse to give money to my diocese after the reprehensible way I have been treated by them. For this reason, among many other reasons, I am reluctant to attend a diocesan TLM, except for extreme necessity.

    I am even reluctant to give money to the SSPX parish [I attend] after the priest there [offended me]. I am not a mean person, and I would happily give more of my money to the Church, but there are now so many [disappointing priests] both in Tradition and the Novus Ordo Church, can we really justify giving them anything? It’s not like they ever listen to us lay people and respond justly to our complaints. At least they never have done to mine.

    January 26, 2020 at 4:41 pm
    • Miles Immaculatae

      If a Catholic layperson is unjustly and egregiously injured by his parish priest, and should the layperson not receive just and reasonable redress for this injury, is the layperson morally obliged to give his parish priest monetary offerings? I would be interested to know the answer. Bear in mind I cannot simply go to another parish, this option is not possible for me.

      January 26, 2020 at 5:19 pm
      • Petrus

        Questions regarding individual situations are almost impossible to answer hypothetically. The injury done by the priest has to be real and not simply perceived as a result of the injured party needing praise or reassurance. Therefore it really is a matter for the Confessional and not a public forum.

        January 26, 2020 at 8:01 pm
      • editor


        Words of wisdom!

        I think we can all benefit from remembering that it is a basic tenet of Christianity that we do our best to follow Our Lord’s example of quietly accepting insults (perceived or real) in a spirit of self-sacrifice. Obviously, if there is some serious issue with which we need to deal, we should give thought to how best to do that, but when we’ve done our best, we leave it there.

        In fact, I was discussing this issue of (for want of a better term) unresolved “fall-outs” with a good friend recently, when we were discussing situations where, after some kind of disagreement which had resulted in a rift, nothing we said or did seemed sufficient to put right the situation. He made an excellent point, which might help our friend Miles Immaculatae… My friend said that he (like my unworthy self) had made various overtures in different situations to try to right the wrong he/we had done. No success. But, my friend added, that’s it. A bridge was needing to be built. You have built your half of the bridge, he said; Now it’s time for the other person to build his/her half.

        That’s another way of saying – in the case of Miles Immaculatae – that he might approach his priest in a spirit of constructive dialogue, asking, privately to have a “clear the air ” chat and then he’s done his part. Finito. If Father doesn’t build his half of the bridge – end of discussion. . If he has an ounce of Christian charity in his soul (let alone a sense of pastoral duty) he will gladly agree to a chat to try to mend fences.

        Bridges and fences? I might trade my Agony Aunt qualifications for a Degree in Civil Engineering and/or Joinery – Watch this space! 😀

        January 26, 2020 at 11:40 pm
      • editor

        Miles Immaculatae,

        I think (hope!) that I’ve answered this question from you in my lengthy reply below but to repeat, you wouldn’t think of walking out of a restaurant without paying, after eating a hearty meal, on the grounds that the waiter wasn’t too good at his job, could use a career transplant. You would be justified in not giving him a tip, certainly not a generous tip, but you would still have to pay for the meal.

        So, if you are attending a church with a roof and a heating system, you need to make a basic offering. No need to buy the priest a BMW but you do need to help to keep him from starving to death. You know it makes sense.

        January 26, 2020 at 11:19 pm
    • editor

      Miles Immaculatae,

      It is a precept of the Church that we ought to contribute to the upkeep of the church, including a reasonable sustenance for the priests. There’s no specified amount so you can reduce your offering if you feel the need to do so, but it is hardly fair to accept the facilities etc offered by your parish without contributing something, however little in order to fulfil that requirement of Church law. You wouldn’t order a meal in a restaurant and then walk out without paying, just because the waitering service was unsatisfactory. Thus, to use the facilities and attend the Masses offered in your parish, without contributing financially to its upkeep,would be uncharitable, to say the least. In the past, I’ve withheld offerings, but that was back in my novus ordo days when the priest was preaching outright heresy. I was following the example of the Americans who were printing their own money to put in the plate. Their dollar bills read “no doctrine, no dollar”. Brilliant! However, that’s not an issue at the SSPX churches, thank God.

      As for your concerns about priests who have treated you badly. Snap. Needless to say, that’s terrible and shouldn’t happen, but there’s no record anywhere in the New Testament of perfect priests, or even close: we find the letters of St Paul in the New Testament but not the Letters To A Popular Priest. On the contrary, we read the account of St Paul and St Peter disagreeing – when Paul rebuked Peter… (Galatians 2:11). And Our Lord Himself (we read in St John’s Gospel) expressly said that He had chosen the Twelve “yet one of you is a devil” (Judas Iscariot, of course).

      So, if you are looking for a parish with a wonderful – all but perfect – priest, good luck with that. In my notably longer experience in this world than your good self, I’ve yet to find one without faults, and sometimes very bad faults, unlike my own almost unnoticeable minor character blemishes 😀

      Of course it is irritating and upsetting if genuine concerns are ignored by our priests but there’s no point (I tell myself) in banging at a tightly closed door. Better to try to find the key to getting it open. In short, why not speak to your priest about whatever he’s done/said/not done/not said with a veiled threat that you may, in fact, choose to transfer your weekly offering to Catholic Truth cut him out of your will OR, you could follow this wise advice…–minions-funny-quotes-funny-quotes-and-sayings.jpg

      January 26, 2020 at 11:11 pm
      • Miles Immaculatae

        Thank you for this advice.

        January 26, 2020 at 11:51 pm
  • Leonard

    Certainly attend a Diocesan Latin Mass if it is the convenient option (eg close to you, you cannot afford to travel further etc).

    However, to make a real difference it is good for traditionalists oops…I simply mean Catholics…to join together. With big congregations and therefore more money in the collection plate the FSSP, SSPX etc can organise more retreats, catechesis days, seminarian funding etc and daily Mass/devotions.

    What I have observed in Portsmouth Diocese:

    – at the [Catholic] Cathedral Latin Mass the congregation receive from the Novus Ordo tabernacle. Maybe a valid sacrament however…
    If your plane is crashing youd like me to say something more reassuring than “this parachute may work…I think it does”

    – the money taken at the Diocesan Latin Masses goes to the Diocese and their projects eg funding St Bedes ‘Site Manager,’ CAFOD, Christian Unity service tea bags!

    Finally, at a Diocesan Latin Mass your group will always be lodgers. I’ve been to many Masses where kneelers are brought to the front, the communion plate dug out of the sacristy and candlesticks placed on the other side of the Altar to allow facing East. Then, once Mass is over it’s business as usual.

    – So many Masses finish abruptly when the priest moves on. Perhaps the congregation did grow over the years…oh well… tough luck

    January 26, 2020 at 10:39 pm
    • editor


      Those are all good points. I’m reflecting…

      January 26, 2020 at 11:42 pm
  • Leonard

    Luckily in Portsmouth we have a number of Masses available EVERY SUNDAY
    – Sspx Burghclere school and chapel
    – sspx portsmouth
    – Franciscan friars at gosport
    – farnborough Benedictine abbey
    – FSSP Reading

    Also EVERY Sunday in the Diocese
    – Cathedral
    -St Joseph, Aldershot
    – Holy Family, Southampton

    January 26, 2020 at 10:45 pm
    • gabriel syme


      I have just seen this post but coincidentally I had recently been looking into TLM provision in that part of the world as my family will be holidaying there this year.

      I already knew the SSPX had a chapel in Portsmouth, so knew we were “covered”, but it was pleasing to see the generous amount of other provision, especially in Portsmouth.

      I would always seek the SSPX first – as it happens many of the Diocesan times are not ideal for young children, but even still it is good that they exist. The SSPX time is 11.30am which is ideal.

      I also learned that there is a sung mass (I think at the Gosport Fransiscan Friars) at 9.30am on Saturdays, so I may well avail myself of that mass too. I enjoy getting the chance to visit Churches on holiday, assuming the liturgy is acceptable!

      Do you know anything about the SSPX in Portmouth? I think the Chapel is former bank building and it looks quite small – will a few visitors manage to squeeze in? Any advice about parking would be great too – there is street parking outside, but I do not know if the charges apply on Sundays. No problem if you are not familiar.

      Is the diocesan provision chiefly thanks to the Bishop (Egan) who recently, visited the SSPX at Burghclere, or was there already a healthy LMS presence? In any case, it seems a good diocese to live in.

      January 27, 2020 at 9:16 am
      • Leonard

        Hi Gabriel,
        Yes there is a lot of provision thanks be to God.

        The SSPX chapel in Portsmouth is known as the bank and though small should have ample room for you. Sunday Mass is at 11am with tea/coffee afterwards.

        Should you get lost, look for the tower of St Mary’s Anglican Church. The chapel is a short walk from there.

        Parking restrictions are usually lifted on Sundays so you should be ok.

        While in Portsmouth I wouldn’t visit the Cathedral. The sanctuary is in Good Friday mode eg devoid of any beauty- we are still recovering from the Worlock/ Crispian years.

        I would, however, visit St Agatha’s church. It has a very rich history, threatened with demolition at one point but now part of the Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham. The priests have filled this Italianate basilica with statues, banners, ornate vestments, relics, altars etc from churches that have closed or no longer required them in the Spirit of Vatican II.
        Some condescending clergy call it the Antique shop.
        The priests are very friendly and enjoy welcoming people to the church. It is usually open Sundays 10am- 2pm (Solemn Mass at 11am). Monday, Friday, Saturday 10.30am- 12.30pm (Low Mass at 11am).
        Mass is celebrated according to the Divine Worship Missal, used by the Ordinariate.

        Whereabouts are you staying?
        Farnborough Abbey is worth a visit but it is best to call ahead. It is a taste of rural France in the middle of grotty Farnborough.

        Netley Abbey ruins are also worth a visit, toward Southampton.

        January 27, 2020 at 10:23 am
      • gabriel syme

        Hi Leonard,

        Thanks for that kind reply and useful information which I will bear in mind.

        We are staying in a wee place called Keyhaven. This is close-by Portsmouth, although the presence of Southampton Water means the drive is longer than you would think (but still very manageable).

        For various reasons, we are looking forward to a mostly quiet, relaxing time – there should be ample opportunity for walking, pottering about on Beaches, relaxing in the garden etc.

        We have two small daughters and so we will no doubt visit the nearby Peppa Pig World. I am also keen to visit the Tank Museum also, although my wife looked appalled when I suggested this haha!

        How far is Farnborough to drive, from say Southhampton? A little further on is Berkshire where i am familiar with, but I thought it would be too far away to visit.

        I am familiar with Reading (work), Slough (relations lived here a while back – my uncle is buried there) and Windsor (tourism) and would have liked to visit for old times sake.

        Would you recommend the Isle of Wight for a day out?

        I don’t have any experience of the south coast,beyond the ferry ports (southampton, dover) when I was a child, so it will be nice to visit somewhere new. I am not looking forward to the long drive (from Glasgow) but we will break it up with an overnight stop each way.

        We will be well provided for, in terms of Mass – that is the first thing I look for, when considering a holiday destination!

        January 27, 2020 at 12:26 pm
  • Leonard

    Bishop Egan is a good Bishop but not traditional. He has ordained some Gosport Friars to the priesthood according to the old books and has presided from the throne at a High Mass for the LMS. He also visited Burghclere, causing two nuns to leave for Williamsons SSPX resistance movement. They now live up North.

    However, he also encourages us to pray for our “sister” Diocese (the Anglicans) and complimented Liturgical Dance during a parish visitation.

    He believes we are moving into a springtime for the church. I believe we are just into September- the worse is still to come.

    He is all things to all people. He has asked parishes to become familiar and able to sing the ordinary of the Mass in Latin and for the St Michael prayer to be said after Masses but of course no one listens.

    Sad but he is under a lot of pressure. Apparently he would like to face East at the Cathedral but the Liturgy committee wouldn’t allow it!

    January 27, 2020 at 10:37 am
    • gabriel syme


      “He is all things to all people.” – that phrase crops up often, when a decent modern Bishop is discussed. It is as if they are frightened to hang their hat on something, or to have a character of their own.

      I shuddered at the mention of liturgical dance.

      Who applies the pressure the Bishop is under? Rebellious / disobedient clergy?

      I suppose his appointment represents a step in the right direction, rather than the arrival at a destination!

      January 27, 2020 at 12:30 pm
    • Josephine


      That’s very disappointing about Bishop Egan praising “liturgical dance” – some “traditionalist”!

      The excuse that the “liturgy committee wouldn’t allow it” just shows the weakness of character of these modern bishops. Sack the liturgy committee, is the answer to that problem (although I know these people are expert at bullying, so he wouldn’t get away with it.)

      January 27, 2020 at 2:45 pm
  • Leonard

    Hi All,
    Gabriel, the drive to Farnborough Abbey from Southampton is around an hour or more so might not be worth it.

    Certainly go to the Isle of Wight but take a car. You can then drive along the a3055, one of the most scenic UK roads , along the cliffs from Freshwater to Ventnor. At Ventnor there is a donkey sanctuary (free) and sandy beaches at Shanklin, Sandown and Ryde. The Benedictine Abbey at Quarr (just outside Ryde) is worth visiting for the gardens and tea room.

    January 27, 2020 at 3:01 pm
    • Leonard

      Another beach is on Hayling Island which is usually quiet and accessible from the mainland by bridge.
      The girls would love the New Forest, very close to Southampton, with its ponies wondering about the pretty country lanes.
      Lymington has a nice marina and fish and chip restaurant on the high street. One can take a boat trip around the marina.

      January 27, 2020 at 3:04 pm
      • Leonard

        If there is anything you’re particularly looking for please let me know.

        January 27, 2020 at 3:07 pm
      • editor

        Leonard and Gabriel Syme,

        I hope the Association of UK Travel Agents (assuming there is one!) don’t sue Catholic Truth for stealing their business!

        January 27, 2020 at 8:02 pm
      • gabriel syme


        You should get onto the Hampshire Tourist Board to demand commission!

        Sorry for “off-topic chat” – but I will sent you a postcard to make amends! 😉

        January 27, 2020 at 9:51 pm
      • editor

        Gabriel Syme,

        “Off topic chat” very entertaining and saves me hiring a Private Detective to keep tabs on you ! I hadn’t thought of claiming commission from the HTB, so I’ve now got that on my “to do” list (which means I’ll get to it in around 5 years, if I’m still around!)

        January 27, 2020 at 10:24 pm
      • gabriel syme

        Dear Leonard,

        I really appreciate the excellent information you have kindly provided! Some great food for thought.

        The Isle of Wight sounds lovely. My mum’s uncle was a Benedictine Monk at Buckfast, so it would be nice to visit Ryde. I have visited the Benedictine Abbeys at Buckfast, Pluscarden and Trier – but never a female branch of the Order.

        I daresay the chippy in Lymington will get bit of business as well! 😛 (Repeat business, knowing my appetite!)

        I am now even more keen for holiday time to arrive – thank you once again! 🙂

        January 27, 2020 at 9:49 pm
  • Leonard


    Are there any “Traditional” Catholic news sites specifically for the UK?

    One that lists FSSP, SSPX, LMS et al Mass times?

    At the moment, for Mass details and UK news, I have to download various publications (eg SSPX mag and LMS listings pdf) and twitter accounts/blogs.


    January 29, 2020 at 2:05 pm
    • editor


      We tried to do that here (for Scotland) but it proved to be too much hard work, since sometimes Mass times change and then complaints roll in – I think you need to visit each individually.

      Hasn’t happened for a long time but I even used to get emails from people across the ocean telling me that they were coming to Scotland on holiday and could I tell them the times of Sunday Masses in Loch Lomond?

      I kid you not. It’s not an easy life being editor of an international Catholic publication, trust me 😀

      January 29, 2020 at 3:19 pm

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