Archbishop of Glasgow: “The Church has never said that [anyone] is in Hell” … Eh? Really? Er…
The following reflection, dated 22 November, 2020, is taken from the website of the Archdiocese of Glasgow – editorial comment added…
COVID restrictions and salvation
In a far-reaching reflection this week, Archbishop Philip considers the new pandemic restrictions, our duty to live with charity and solidarity during this period, and our final judgement by Christ the King: “Two things make me hopeful for our eternal destiny … I have never met anyone without a scrap of love and charity in their heart.
Editor: allow me to introduce myself…
Secondly, the Church has never said that any individual person is in hell.
Editor: allow me to introduce you to Saint Jacinta – one of the Fatima seers, solemnly canonized by Pope Francis at the Sanctuary of Our Lady of Fátima, in Portugal on 13 May 2017. After the vision of Hell, when the seers saw the souls (plural) of those suffering there, Jacinta was so desperate to help poor sinners avoid Hell that she made many sacrifices. Read all about Fatima here – you really need to know about it, if you want to make sense of what is happening in the world today. Oh, and to know that there ARE souls in Hell. Lots, sadly, of individuals. Our Lord told us that, even before Saint Jacinta… Don’t you remember? He mentioned “the furnace of fire” where there would be “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 13:5). Don’t you remember? And it is the tradition of the Church, the teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, that Judas Iscariot is in Hell. I’m not sure that we’ve ever covered this in our newsletter, so watch out for our January 2021 edition – we’ll find a spot for it there. Interesting, isn’t it, that the Fathers and Doctors of the Church agree unanimously that there is, at least, one bishop in Hell… Er, moving on…
Jesus is the one who has the authority and the power to look into our souls and find there the love that will permit us to enter eternal life.
Editor: allow me to introduce you to Our Lord’s definition of “love” – He told us that if we love Him, we will keep His Commandments and voila! Then we will be admitted to eternal life. It’s a tad misleading to speak of Jesus finding “love” in our souls when the word is so misused and abused these days. Don’t you have a duty to make sure that those hearing and reading your words understand the nature of the love required to achieve eternal happiness? “Love” (in the sense of the pop song) is NOT “all you need”.
“Jesus is the one who, despite our sins and frailties, has the authority to validate our existence and our activity forever. Jesus, the Universal Judge, in calling us to unselfish charity, is the one who scrutinises our souls for the spark of divine love that will permit us to live forever with the saints in heaven.
Editor: allow me to introduce you to my previous response. Except I need to mention “validate our existence and our activity forever” – if this is the latest way of describing The Judgment, I’d say ditch it. The Four Last Things is much easier to understand: Death, Judgment, Heaven or Hell. Nobody needs to run for a dictionary.
“Covid-19 is a particularly nasty virus, and we do not want people to become ill or die. Practical charity in this pandemic may just be that spark of divine love in us that the Lord will look for.”
Editor: allow me to introduce you to St Thérèse of Lisieux, one of the many great Christian souls who longed for death: “During this prayer, I would begin thinking that the day of rest was coming to an end, that the morrow would bring with it the necessity of beginning life over again, we would have to go back to work, learning lessons, etc., and my heart felt the exile of this earth. I longed for the everlasting repose of heaven, that never-ending Sunday of the Fatherland!” Indeed, can you believe this, Archbishop, we’re all going to die of something, some day. And horrible as this virus is (you are right about that – well, even a broken clock is right twice a day 😀 ) some deaths may be much worse.
Full text follows:
And then there were 20 … It seems like a huge joke on the Church to proclaim Jesus Christ as King, while being under such severe restrictions that only 20 people at a time are allowed to come together in Church for Mass to celebrate this great feast. I never imagined for a second that I would mark my fifteenth anniversary as a bishop under these circumstances.
Editor: well, this is one “joke” that’s not leaving any of the faithful amused. Not one little bit. I’ve yet to meet any Catholic anywhere in Scotland who finds this situation remotely funny. I take your point, however, and it is true that we find it disgusting that the bishops would preach Christ is King while effectively handing His crown to Nicola Sturgeon. An uncharitable soul might accuse the hierarchy itself of being “a huge joke”. So, your point is not without merit.
I consoled myself by remembering the crucifixion of Jesus when the soldiers mocked him. “If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself.”
Editor: well, don’t console yourself. What you ought to be remembering is the fate awaiting false shepherds, because Scripture reveals that Christ warned against false teachers more than He preached about love or any other desirable quality. To teach that the Government’s authority is greater than that which Christ the King bequeathed to His Church, is not something which should console you – it should worry you, dare I say it, to death…
When we proclaim Christ as King, we need to recognise that He is a King who reigns from the Cross, and, from the Cross he is the King who can promise paradise. To one who was crucified with him, you remember, and who recognised Jesus’ innocence, Jesus promised, “Today you will be with me in paradise.” Jesus is King because, through his Cross and Resurrection, he is the Saviour who has won for us the crown of eternal life.
Editor: the “Good Thief” was promised Paradise despite his sins and crimes; but why? Because he confessed his sinfulness, unlike the other thief who doggedly taunted Our Lord and refused to accept his own sinfulness before God. We’re still waiting for that “Good Thief” confession from any of our Bishops; nothing, so far. All we are hearing is that you’re all doing your bit to “save lives” and “protect the NHS”. No repentance for designating God as non-essential in a public health “crisis”.
Jesus is the King who reigns from the Cross, and those who belong to his kingdom are called to carry their Cross and follow him to the glory of the Resurrection. Because of this pandemic, we are once again suffering even more severe restrictions to our freedom to come to church to worship God. Part of our suffering is the fact that it is not particularly clear why 50 had to drop to 20 in the Tier 4 regulations. It could, however, be worse. In England, Ireland and France, all churches are just closed full stop. We do not want that to happen, so we will bear this cross with dignity, patience and forbearance, hoping that the Tier 4 restrictions are lifted on 11th December as has been promised.
Editor: this is not a “cross” – this is a dereliction of duty. A cross of suffering we must accept with peaceful resignation. Episcopal and priestly neglect we rightly abhor. It is a scandal which we are duty bound to publicly correct. God is never “non-essential” especially at a time when we are being frog-marched into totalitarian governance.
If you are frustrated by the Tier 4 restrictions on your personal freedoms, let me point you to today’s Gospel. Jesus is King also because he is the universal judge of every human being, with the authority to admit to eternal life or to condemn to the eternal fire.
Editor: that is a non-sequitur. There is no connection between my loss of my personal freedom, for which the hierarchy (and each individual member of it) is largely to blame, because the Governments of the UK could never have imposed these restrictions on our religious liberty without the co-operation of the hierarchy, so, to recap, there is no connection between the loss of my personal freedom and the authority of Christ to Judge us in eternity. Unless, that is, you are saying that those politicians responsible for removing our personal (and religious) freedoms are going to face a very severe judgment. Is that what you mean? If so, you have a duty to warn them very publicly and very clearly, not hide your warning behind a vague, generalised statement.
In this scenario of the last judgment, the measure Jesus will use for his judgment is love and practical charity. Here are his words: “I was hungry and you gave me food, thirsty and you gave me drink, sick and imprisoned and you visited me, a stranger and you made me welcome. When you did this to the least of these brothers of mine, you did it to me.”
Editor: another non-sequitur. What do those [beautiful] words of Our Lord have to do with your insistence on obeying a wholly secular and heavily Marxist-leaning Government which is responsible for the introduction of evil laws to destroy the family and legitimise (and promote) sexual immorality, a Government which is planning further evil through its shocking Hate Crime Bill and which is now wielding authority over the Church? We’re definitely in waffle territory here.
We are told that we are under Tier 4 restrictions because the rate of Covid-19 infection in Glasgow and the West of Scotland remains, in the First Minister’s words, “stubbornly high”. At the beginning of this pandemic, we were all in it together and it was easier to accept lockdown. Now we are not. In some parts of Scotland, people are shopping normally, going to pubs and restaurants freely until fairly late in the evening, and socialising with each other more than we are.
Editor: it’s very interesting – and telling – that you found the first lockdown “easier” to accept, and that you quote the ridiculous slogan “we’re all in this together” which, is balderdash. The fact that the churches were closed meant that no Catholic found the first lockdown remotely easy. We found it painful and doubly so because you, our bishops were happily going along with the Government’s authoritarian rule. We can’t even accuse the politicians of a coup d’état because the bishops were happy to co-operate and hand over their authority to the Government. I find it very interesting that, for all the quotes from Scripture relating to Judgment, you do not seem to apply any of them to yourselves. Your confidence in “love” being the passport into Heaven is troubling. When Christ pointed out that that the infamous sinner, the woman who anointed his feet with oil would be forgiven her many sins “because she hath loved much”, she had first washed his feet with her tears of repentance. This was no superficial or emotional love – it was the kind of love required of us all, the love that takes us to the confessional box. (Luke 7:37-48). It is misleading for priests and bishops to speak of “love” as if it pleases God and brings us to salvation, without repentance of our sins.
Part of this disparity is that in four Catholic dioceses, 50 people can be at Mass; and in the other four (which contain the vast majority of the Catholic community of Scotland), only 20 people can be at Mass. If this makes you frustrated or angry or feel a sense of unfairness, just try to bear it as our commitment to practical charity and to the love of our neighbour, so that infection rates will come down, and we will all be able to enjoy more personal freedoms at the end of this period of Tier 4 restrictions.
Editor: there are just no words in any dictionary to describe the frustration and anger (to use your words) felt by Catholics shocked by your subservience to the Government throughout this period. To speak of “practical charity” and the “love of neighbour” as being the correct response to the limitations set on numbers of faithful who may attend Mass simply beggars belief. Charity and Justice must first be offered to God. Of course, since the introduction of the new Mass, the emphasis has been on the people, the “community”, making the Mass more enjoyable, fun even, for them but – of course – that is the wrong way round. Charity is first and foremost, the love of God. Our concern for justice, too, must first be directed to Justice for God to Whom we owe true worship. The Ten Commandments are more important than any Coronavirus restriction. Thankfully, there ARE some (not many) priests who are defying Government rules – I’ve just been reading about a priest in Ireland who has re-opened his church despite his bishop cowering behind the propaganda about the need to “suppress the virus” – such idiocy! This priest reveals more insight than any bishop into the reality of what is going on when he says: “There is a suspicion that they want to stop people believing in God … to stop people practising their faith.” Got it in one. In Scotland – and indeed across the UK – the bishops, complicit with the Government, are succeeding in doing this, whether deliberately or unwittingly, where the Protestant Reformers of the 16 century failed.
More than that – much more than that – Jesus the Universal King will judge us at the end on our love and charity.
Editor: to quote Groucho Marx, if I’ve told you this before, don’t stop me, I want to hear it again… (I repeat): we will be judged on the kind of love which leads us to obey the Commandments: “If you love Me, you will keep my Commandments” (John 14:21-24 ).
Two things make me hopeful for our eternal destiny … I have never met anyone without a scrap of love and charity in their heart. Secondly, the Church has never said that any individual person is in hell. Jesus is the one who has the authority and the power to look into our souls and find there the love that will permit us to enter eternal life.
Editor: again, in the spirit of Groucho Marx, allow me to repeat myself by introducing you to Saint Jacinta – one of the Fatima seers, solemnly canonized by Pope Francis at the Sanctuary of Our Lady of Fátima, in Portugal on 13 May 2017. After the vision of Hell, when the seers saw the souls (plural) of those suffering there, Jacinta was so desperate to help poor sinners avoid Hell that she made many sacrifices. Read all about Fatima here – you really need to know about it, if you want to make sense of what is happening in the world today. Oh, and to know that there ARE souls in Hell. Lots, sadly, of individuals. Our Lord told us that, even before Saint Jacinta… Don’t you remember? He mentioned “the furnace of fire” where there would be “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 13:5). Don’t you remember? And it is the tradition of the Church, the teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, that Judas Iscariot is in Hell. I’m not sure that we’ve ever covered this in our newsletter, so watch out for our January 2021 edition – we’ll find a spot for it there. Interesting, isn’t it, that the Fathers and Doctors of the Church agree unanimously that there is, at least, one bishop in Hell… Er, moving on…
Jesus is the one who, despite our sins and frailties, has the authority to validate our existence and our activity forever. Jesus, the Universal Judge, in calling us to unselfish charity, is the one who scrutinises our souls for the spark of divine love that will permit us to live forever with the saints in heaven.
Editor: once more, in the spirit of Groucho Marx, allow me to repeat myself. If by “validate our existence and our activity forever” you mean The Judgment, I’d say ditch it. The Four Last Things is much easier to understand: Death, Judgment, Heaven or Hell. Nobody needs to run for a dictionary.
Covid-19 is a particularly nasty virus, and we do not want people to become ill or die. Practical charity in this pandemic may just be that spark of divine love in us that the Lord will look for.
Editor: the problem with all this talk of “practical charity” is that the Government tells us to stay away from people. I’m surprised that the bishops haven’t picked up on that in their anxiety to obey Mz Sturgeon & Company. There’s not a lot of “practical charity” any of us can legitimately do when we are supposed to be wearing masks (which discriminates against the hard of hearing who struggle to understand what is being said behind the muzzles) and when we must keep a distance of six feet or whatever it is now from others – I no longer keep up with these crackpot rules. I’ve worked it out that God has given me a mind of my own for a reason. So, really, with all due respect, we don’t need exhortations from our bishops to “practical charity” or patience in carrying this “cross”; we need to see some backbone, some pushback, some practical charity towards God by a declaration that “enough is enough”. The virus has been used by Government to introduce totalitarian governance by stealth, using the fear of infection and death to control us.
Shame on you, Archbishop Tartaglia, and your brother bishops for allowing yourselves to be complicit in this spread of Communism, which was foretold at Fatima. You must seek to make amends urgently, and where better to begin – after opening your churches, refusing to pay fines and accept prison if necessary – than by asking the Pope to arrange for the Consecration of Russia to be carried out in the manner prescribed by Our Lady at Fatima. When she spoke to the Fatima seer, Sr Lucia, Our Lady requested that the Pope, in union with all the bishops of the world, consecrate Russia, the first ever nation to publicly deny the very existence of God in its governance, the first ever Communist country, to her Immaculate Heart. Only when this is done, will peace and order be restored in both the world and the Church.
This public giving back to God of Russia, this Consecration must be done by the Pope and the bishops of the world at the same time. A short prayer of Consecration, as requested by God through His mother at Fatima, would see off the fear of this virus (which is not at all the deadly threat which the schemers claim) and we would enjoy the promised period of world peace. To date, we are seeing a purely worldly response to a contrived public health crisis, absent any spiritual, religious or moral leadership from the hierarchies around the world. There’s plenty of talk of “judgment” in the above reflection but it is all askew – it is clear evidence of the lack of any Catholic sense.
At Catholic Truth, Archbishop, we are praying for you and for your brother bishops in Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales. But what we cannot do, is defend your negligence and your worldly complicity with the politicians who are brazenly changing the way we are governed in order to remove our personal and religious freedoms. Of this you must repent, as a matter of the utmost urgency, in the knowledge that judgment for any of us can come at any minute, day or night. You may take refuge in the Woody Allen philosophy: “It’s not that I’m afraid of death, I just don’t want to BE there when it happens!” Well, Archbishop, Breaking News, you WILL be there.
St Joseph, patron of a happy death, pray for us. Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us!
To read Archbishop Tartaglia’s Reflection on Covid restrictions and salvation, click on Source
Comments invited…
Comments (50)
“To read Archbishop Tartaglia’s Reflection on Covid restrictions and salvation, click on Source”
Erm … no thank you.
Well, I’ve read it. Sound plausible, but lies and nonsense often do, especially when the groundwork has been prepared.
Firstly, the Covid-19 virus is really dangerous to people who are vulnerable. These people are mostly over 60 and not in the best of health.
Secondly the testing is completely unreliable. It is not possible to extrapolate anything from the figures of “cases” as these figures include people who currently have it, people who have had it in the past, people who have had any coronavirus in the past such as flu or a cold. The chain of processing is often weak, as most of the testers have never been in a lab or clinical situation prior to being recruited off the street.
The only reasonable figure to go on is the number of deaths caused by Covid-19. The Governments of the UK made mince of that by ensuring that Covid-19 was mentioned on every death certificate from the start of the outbreak. Their collective failure to shut down the country by preventing travellers from abroad was either stupidity, cupidity, or deliberate promotion of the disease. Thousands of students arrived here from China, after the outbreak, in order to pour money into the coffers of the Universities.
The behaviour of the Universities has been deplorable.
So why did our Bishops go along with every stricture and regulation, willingly and happily, instead of drawing a line across the thresholds of the Churches, “The State Stops Here!”?
Is is because they have been bending to the will of the State on every front for decades?
Is is because it is easier, and won’t take them away from their cosy relationship with politicians?
Is it because they do not understand the nature of martyrdom, and that now is their time to accept it?
Antoine,
That IS the question – why did our bishops go along with the whole Covid-19 contrived crisis…
I think each of the reasons you give, combined, added to the creeping apostasy (of which Pope John Paul II spoke) has resulted in their self-evident loss of divine and Catholic faith. Ergo, they are perfectly happy to hand over their authority to the Government.
But, as Sir Desmond Swayne MP said in Parliament yesterday, this is a very dangerous lesson for the Government, any Government to learn – that the people will give up their freedoms without a second thought, no fight involved. No challenge to Government, and as we know, not even from the Catholic hierarchy. WOW! That really IS a dangerous lesson. Tried and succeeded once, what’s to stop them doing it again?
I tried – without success – to find the clip on YouTube, which is a pity because he was very hard-hitting.
Antoine Bisset,
Although we keep being told that the virus is dangerous to the vulnerable, that doesn’t mean that all the “vulnerable” will die. I remember early on that two people who were wheeled out of hospital in wheelchairs, after being admitted with Covid were over 100 years of age! So, it’s really not a death sentence and I think even the experts say you have to be very old, not just over 60. At one point I heard “over 85” is the danger point.
MM,
I’ve just searched and found this report – not just someone “over 100” but twenty years over 100 – this woman was 120 years of age when she left hospital having recovered from the virus.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/woman-12-kids-100-grandchildren-22933273
The scare-mongering that has been going on is totally disgraceful.
If only – and I say this with full sincerity and conviction – +Tartaglia and his fellow hierarchical worldlings knew the Faith as well as people like Editor, Athanasius and others here, Catholics in Scotland would be in quite a different situation. Athanasius’ blogger name is well-chosen, but as for Editor, I think she should re-name herself Joan of Arc (or a Scottish equivalent).
That said, I think there are two things at work in this pitiful document of surrender: one, the Archbishop is modeling himself on his Marxist boss with his ridiculous twisting of Scripture and dogma. This talk of “divine spark” which allegedly saves us from the consequences of our fallen nature reminds me of what Beethoven said about Schubert when he examined one of Schubert’s scores:
“Truly, this man has the divine spark!”
Well duh, Ludwig, so does everyone else on the planet, but that’s no guarantee that we will use it to please our Creator.
Two, this Archbishop once again exposes himself as a full-fledged creature of Vatican II: the uncrowning of Our Lord and His replacement by human respect. And human respect, taken in the current context, means casting incense before the false COVID gods of the Communistic totalitarian state.
Archbishop Tartaglia, you have uttered a clear non serviam to the Church, to the faithful, and above all to your Lord and Master. May God have mercy on your soul….that is, if, like the good thief, you have the humility to confess your foul deeds.
As for the other thief, who not only had no contrition but who mocked his King, I suggest you meditate on where that soul found himself after his legs were broken.
RCA Victor,
You are so right – the romantic references to “divine spark” and “love” are entirely superficial. It’s a sad day when we have to dig out the sermons of the saints of old to receive sound spiritual nourishment.
Speaking of the saints of old, I know I should be flattered by your suggestion that I change my username to Joan of Arc and I do accept that my fashion sense could be improved (and will be just as soon as my bank balance is improved) but… Joan of Arc? You think I’d look better if I modelled myself on that (admittedly great) saint? Puleese!
https://assets.holyart.it/images/ST007372/us/1600/R/SN037523/CLOSEUP01_HD/h-331827b0/joan-of-arc-statue-45-cm-in-plaster-with-mother-of-pearl.jpg
Editor,
Spiritually, I think you have already modeled yourself on that great saint! So what’s a few new clothes and a new hairdo? And horses are much cheaper than automobiles to operate…..
RCA Victor,
I had my photo taken on a camel some years ago, during a trip to the Holy Land. I made a determination then that I would stick to walking. On my return home, after the first 100 miles, I relented and bought a car 😀
Am really disappointed in you Mrs Ed give this Hard Working Archbishop a break after all he’s only telling us Peasants what His Boss has been saying ,just in case we missed it of course. Murderers Rapists . Reprobates and Theives now know they will enter the Kingdom of Heaven ( pardon the Pun ) without breaking into it . Just think of all the useless Years ,that St John Vianney and St Padre Pio to name but 2 great Confessors spent doing nothing according to this Archbishop. After all if we all go to Heaven then what’s the use of going to Confession. And make no Mistake lots of Catholics who read this Guy’s Garbage will do just that . I personally believe that people like the Archbishop ( I know not his Heart ) should take good counsel before opening their Mouths . Or at least listen to John Lennons Imagine . Well maybe that’s what’s wrong maybe he’s been listening to it much too often.
Just a light hearted but True Story from a few years back when The Double Jeopardy Law was still in place in Scotland. This meant that if a Person was tried for a crime and NOT found Guilty or Acquitted from that Crime ,or Offence they could NOT be tried again for the same Crime or offence. Anyhow This is The Story. A man was accused and tried of robbing from a Bank a substantial sum of money running into £ 1000s . It was a Jury Trial and they found Him Not Guilty. Anyhow after the Verdict was read the Judge said to him that He was Free to go . His parting words to the Judge and Jury were ” Thank You All Very Much . I suppose that means I can keep The Money “.
A question to Archbishop Tartaglia . Archbishop do YOU suppose that the Man in Question was Right or Wrong as He also of course terrorised the people In said Bank whilst robbing it . Or did he just have to sing Kumbaya and everything was OK . O and He was well ahead of his time, in keeping with Mrs Sturgeons Laws ,He wore a Mask .
FOOF,
Laughed at the story of the acquitted robber. Very funny.
Not so funny, though, was your personal remark, rather unkind. You know that’s not allowed, so behave yourself.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/01/ef/93/01ef93578ef2202a4581934a9b050d87.jpg
These days the “bandits” are the ones not wearing masks.
Antoine Bisset,
That is so true, LOL! We are made to feel like criminals, too!
Here we have a man, fifteen years a bishop who doesn’t know of Matt 13,47 –
“The kingdom of Heaven is like a dragnet that is cast into the sea and brings in a hall of all kinds of fish.When it is full, the fishermen bring it ashore; then, sitting down, they collect the good ones in baskets and throw away the ones that are no use. This is how it will be at the end of time: the angels will appear and separate the wicked from the upright, to throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.
‘Have you understood all these?’ They said ‘Yes’ ”
Clearly, Tartaglia does not understand these things.
Why was such a man ever made a Bishop to look after the flock?
Is it that God has given us the leaders we deserve?
A very frightening thought indeed.
Maybe, as individuals, we ALL need to search our souls and our actions as, “Catholics”.
OLG,
I agree – it astounded me to realise the lack of knowledge of elementary Catholic teaching displayed by the archbishop in that “reflection”. I hope if he’s reading this, he gets the message, loud and clear, that he really does need to brush up on Catholicism, including, needless to say although I am about to say it anyway, Sacred Scripture.
Not that I’m a fan of scripture scholars but they do tell us that Our Lord speaks of Hell more often than He speaks of Heaven, so there must be a reason for that…
Reflect!
Editor,
It seems clear that +Tartaglia is not the slightest bit interested in brushing up on Catholicism. After all, that would him at odds with both the world and with his boss, who’s been busy making up a new religion ever since he was elevated to the Chair of Peter.
That religion might well be called Secularist Psychobabble Attempting to Masquerade as Improved Catholicism (SPAMIC).
The sad thing is that millions of Catholics take this rubbish seriously, and quote it to each other in pious tones. Why don’t they realize that their Faith has been stolen from them in plain sight?
But here’s the irony: the followers of this “improved” Catholicism can’t even practice their religion, since in doing so they might infect others! There must be a Heavenly commentary in there somewhere…
Our Lady of Guadalupe,
That’s what I often wonder, why are any of these men ever made bishops when they don’t do the job properly.
I am very interested in what you say about God giving us the leaders we deserve. I can’t remember who it was, but I think I read that one saint said it would be better to have no priests than bad priests.
This reminds me of a story, where someone told a priest “You know, Father, I really don’t believe that God would send anyone to hell. He’s a God of love!” To which the priest replied “Well, when you get there, you might change your mind!”
Andrew.
Great joke – works as a thought for the day sort of meditation. As does this sign…
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/8XIAAOSwXNdccJDG/s-l640.jpg
RCA Victor,
“But here’s the irony: the followers of this “improved” Catholicism can’t even practice their religion, since in doing so they might infect others! There must be a Heavenly commentary in there somewhere…
That’s SO true! Rich irony indeed! Well said!
I found that reflection by Archbishop Tartaglia really depressing to read. The editorial notes just emphasise the ignorance of the bishops about things they should know off the top of their heads.
It was really shocking to read the bit about Hell because if bishops like him don’t even know about the Fatima vision of Hell, how can they really understand the urgency of Our Lady’s message? She was affirming the dogma of Hell probably because she knows it is being attacked in our times, and here we have the Archbishop of Glasgow attacking it! He’s not alone in doing that or even the first but it always comes as a shock when a bishop denies a dogma or trivialises it.
I think the point was made already (by RCA Victor, I think) that the archbishop twists scripture to carry his argument which seems to be that Covid 19 will contribute to our salvation. It’s already being treated like a new religion so that will make the experts even more demanding – before you know it, they’ll be adding a few numbers to the ten commandments, LOL!
In all seriousness, I despair of the Scottish Bishops, I really do. They are hunkered down, waiting for the government’s next batch of permissions. It’s making them look so weak but I think they are trying to cover that up with flowery words, such as in that reflection.
Glasgow is not in a healthy state, at all, in fact it’s in shocking decline from all I hear, so flowery words won’t convince anyone when the bishops are looking to the irreligious government to decide on rules for the churches. It’s nothing short of a disgrace, actually. I believe archbishop Tartaglia has a heart condition so you’d think he would be ever more conscious of a possible early death. I don’t wish that on him, of course, but it is just amazing that he doesn’t spend his time reading up on things like Fatima and making sure he is prepared for that possibility. Maybe he would change his ways if he read about the Jesuit priests who survived the atomic bomb because they were living the Fatima message. Here is a link to that story.
https://www.ncregister.com/blog/the-jesuit-priests-who-survived-hiroshima
I don’t know how this is all going to end but my gut feeling is that it’s not going to end well.
Editor,
“And it is the tradition of the Church, the teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, that Judas Iscariot is in Hell.”
Are you sure about this? I thought that nobody could specifically say that any one person was in Hell, not even Judas Iscariot. Can you elaborate on this, please?
Nicky,
Thank you for that very important question.
It is true that the Fathers and Doctors of the Church are offering opinions and that is not quite the same thing as a defined teaching, to be held as true by the whole Church. And it is also true to say that we are prohibited from naming anyone as being in Hell.
In the case of Judas Iscariot, the Fathers were basing their opinions on the words of Our Lord Himself as recorded in the Gospels – for example, the following extract from the prayer of Christ as recorded in the Gospel of St John:
While I was with them, I kept them in thy name. Those whom thou gavest me have I kept: and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition that the scripture may be fulfilled” (John 17:12).
“The scripture” to which Our Lord refers here is Psalm 108, which is headlined: David in the person of Christ, prayeth against his persecutors, more especially the traitor Judas: foretelling and approving his just punishment for his obstinacy in sin and final impenitence. (see Douay-Rheims Bible).
I hope this clarifies the issue for you – in any event, I’m going to do my best to include a piece on this subject in the January newsletter – which reminds me, I need to get on with it!
Nicky,
I found this very good article about the traditional belief that Judas is in Hell.
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/03/damned-lies-on-destiny-of-judas-iscariot.html
I think it’s very clear and the evidence is overwhelming.
Saying that, I find that I just can’t bring myself to say that anyone is definitely in Hell! I don’t think it’s anything that the Church would teach with binding force but it does seem very clear from the evidence put forward in that Rorate Caeli article, that Judas set himself on a path for Hell and did not truly repent, to save his soul.
Lily,
Thank you for that Rorate Caeli article – excellent.
Well, Editor, if Pope Francis can turn on its head the meaning of St. Francis’ mission to North African Muslims, a mere Archbishop can meddle a little with Scripture. N’est ce que pas? Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and my, there’s an awful lot of fanciful sauce about in novus ordo parishes!
Crofterlady,
LOL! I think you are right about that fanciful sauce in novus ordo parishes, more’s the pity.
Lily,
My memories of life in a novus ordo parish are best summed up in this picture…
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c7/1d/14/c71d149261f63593f5444879d05af47b.jpg
Crofterlady,
I believe Pope Francis once tweeted that he thought LOL meant Our Lady of Lourdes. There’s no explaining the man, at all. Or any of the clergy for that matter. They seem to be one crazy, mixed up bunch!
https://www.glasbergen.com/wp-content/gallery/christian-cartoons/cc4.gif
Editor,
That reminds me of the old clip from “Yes, Prime Minister” about Modernists in the church (of England, in this case):
Editor
Your answers to the Archbishops tripe were very Catholic, truly Catholic. Sadly, and I will not labour the point I’ve made so many times before, the man is more Protestant than Catholic. In fact, I wonder if there’s any semblance of supernatural faith left in any of these prelates by which they can even be identified at all with Christianity. That statement he made was just a load of superficial codswallop, and completely inaccurate in respect to the seriousness of Covid-19. It’s just a bad flu, Archbishop Taratglia, or are you so lazy you just take the godless government/media propaganda as Gospel?
Editor
If I recall correctly, it is recounted by the seers of Fatima that when they were asking Our Lady to intercede for the souls of certain people they had known, when it came to a particular young girl who had died at age 15, Our Lady said sadly that she was already in Hell because she died unrepentant having committed a sin of impurity. So here’s another example of how utterly bereft of Catholic knowledge, perhaps even faith, Archbishop Tartaglia actually is.
Athanasius,
That was Purgatory – when the children asked about their friend, Our Lady said she would be in Purgatory until the end of the world. I don’t remember any mention of why and I don’t think Our Lady would mention any sin like that, so maybe you’ve read that on one of the dodgy Fatima sites. I stick to Father Gruner’s site.
Lily
No, there was one instance I read of where Our Lady responded to requests for intercession by saying that the 15-year old in question was already in Hell. I remember this distinctly because it kind of shocked me at the time – must try to find the source.
Athanasius,
You latest comment must have gone up as mine did – I think you will find that Purgatory is the teenager’s destination – I’ve given you the source from what I consider to be the best book on the subject. See below.
Editor
I have just carried out a cursory search and it seems you and Lily are right. I’m scratching my head because I’m sure I read that a certain soul they asked prayers for was said to be already in Hell. Maybe I’m havering!
Athanasius,
There’s no doubt about it – havering is the word, but you’ve made my day because I’d forgotten all about “havering” – it’s a great word, so I hope I remember it from now on, although I also hope (in a way) that I don’t need to use it, if you get my drift 😀
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-35wqknaBJcU/UU9tXz-BluI/AAAAAAAAJuA/1JSwUYvCyjA/s1600/funny-old-ladies-bad-memory.jpg
Editor
Yes, I love the cartoon as long as it stays just a cartoon! In this case though, I think I was merely having a pre-senior moment. Say nothing, act casual!
Athanasius,
I’ve just checkd, and Lily is correct. Here’s the relevant conversation on the subject:
Lucy continued asking the Lady about Heaven. She named two friends of hers. Were they there? The Lady said the first friend was in Heaven, the second would be in Purgatory until the end of the world. (Sister Lucia, Apostle of Mary’s Immaculate Heart, by Mark Fellows, p.48)
That was all that was said – chilling to think of such a young person in Purgatory until the end of the world; sobering food for meditation on the perfect Mercy and Justice of God.
I remember thinking (and writing) about this at the time of the canonisation of Pope John Paul II – reflecting on the judgment of a young teenager who will remain in Purgatory until the end of the world, in contrast with a Pope who launched the inter-religious Assisi meetings, where he placed himself – as nothing more than an equal – alongside the leaders of every non-Christian religion and non-Catholic denomination under the sun, to mention but one scandal from the JPII pontificate. What’s the contrast? He gets canonised!
Roll on the day when all of these fast-track canonisations are reviewed, along with every other innovation in the post-Vatican II era.
Editor
I don`t think anyone would keep it open if no one was there. Especially at today`s fuel costs.
There`s the possibility, though, that the other Nic(ola) has put a ban on anyone from visiting. Maybe that is what the Archbishop really meant to get accross.
Frankier,
Love it! You were meant for show business!
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e2/a5/fc/e2a5fce68ee9914ae32e183cca162e0e.jpg
I find it hard to believe the Archbishop hasn`t seen the film To Hell and Back.
Seriously though, does he recite the Apostles Creed or the Prayer to St Michael without contemplating or actually believing in what he is saying?
On the other hand, maybe he has never heard of them.
Frankier,
Well, to be fair (choke) he would say he does believe in Hell, he just doesn’t think anyone is there. At least, he says the Church doesn’t say anyone is there but as we know there is the traditional view of Judas Iscariot and the vision of Hell with the many tormented souls there, as witnessed by the three Fatima seers. So, it’s definitely not “an empty Hell”. Nobody will be lonely, there, Frankier, be assured…
Don’t take that the wrong way 😀
Editor,
I believe there is an Archbishopric of Glasgow, but I don’t believe anyone is there…
RCA Victor
Reliable rumour has it, that many, if not most, of the Glasgow clergy would say the very same thing 😀
Frankier, which film is that you mention? I looked it up and there’s a film of that name featuring Audi Murphy. It’s a war film and not about Hell, unless of course he went through “hell”, if you see what I mean.
Crofterlady
That`s the very one I meant, with Audi.
I tried to be funny but my tongue got stuck in my cheek.
This is not what said Our Lady of Fatima, is it?
Today, we hear news of the death of Archbishop Tartaglia, so I will close this thread to comments, and ask everyone to pray for the repose of the Archbishop’s soul. There is a separate thread, posted today, where we may register our promise of prayers.
Eternal rest, grant unto him, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon him, may he rest in peace.
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