Traditional Latin Mass: Cancel Culture Looms – Will Catholics Comply or Resist?

Traditional Latin Mass: Cancel Culture Looms – Will Catholics Comply or Resist?

Comment:

If – as seems likely – what Taylor Marshall prophecies comes true, how will Catholic respond? 

Will they meekly return to the novus ordo, or will they seek TLMs wherever they can find them, OR will they opt to attend the Masses of the Society of Saint Pius X? 

Remember, this same pontiff who is so hostile to Catholic Tradition and who appears to be intent on persecuting the priests who prefer the TLM in institutes like the Fraternity of St Peter and the Institute of Christ the King, is nevertheless on record as stating that the SSPX is Catholic.  That the priests and those who attend the SSPX Masses, are Catholics, within the body of the Church, in communion with the Church. 

So, what do you think – what will most do, if faced with either a return to the novus ordo or attendance at an SSPX church? 

Comments (55)

  • Catherine Reply

    I will pray that people will stick to traditional Mass and come to the SSPX including the priests.

    July 3, 2021 at 1:13 pm
    • Faith of Our Fathers Reply

      If the Pope were a Catholic this would surely be an own goal in many forms .
      First off their is including myself a larger Congregation at the TLMASS than the Novus Ordo.
      Secondly ,as I went around with the Collection Plate ( before this Terrible Chinese Disease) there was much more money put in by TLMASS attendees than at the Novus Ordo Mass . And am sure that must be the same around the Country.
      Thirdly, even Francis must know that their is much more reverence at the TLMASS. In saying that maybe He doesn’t as He probably doesn’t understand Latin. Also we know Down through the ages that Satan Hates Latin which is why we also know that Exorcisms are carried out in Latin.
      So what is it is it just pure spite from Francis or is it His Coup de grace in favour of His Marxist and Masonic Masters. One thing is certain it is not from The Holy Spirit of whom He keeps saying is the God of Surprises.

      July 3, 2021 at 4:03 pm
  • editor Reply

    Thank you, Catherine – we all need to pray hard about this.

    This report gives some background as to why Taylor Marshall (and others) think there are changes to the provisions in Summorum Pontificum, facilitating easy access to the TLM, on the way, and perhaps coming within a few days or weeks…
    https://www.ncregister.com/news/french-archbishop-to-expel-traditional-priestly-fraternity-in-anticipation-of-new-papal-decree

    July 3, 2021 at 1:13 pm
    • Catherine Reply

      This is all very interesting indeed. Things are getting worse by the day.

      Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us!

      July 3, 2021 at 1:30 pm
      • editor

        Catherine,

        Yes, we must always remind ourselves that our plight has been foretold and that we should constantly invoke Our Lady of Fatima.

        July 3, 2021 at 7:29 pm
      • Faith of Our Fathers

        Athanasius am certainly with you on the TLMASS with no Singing. We want to go to Mass to adore Our Lord and not be distracted by well meaning but to me also not Very Good Singing.
        As for the Politics in the past ,I have only been going to the TLMASS for about 5 Years but have no wish to go back to Sunday Novus Ordo Mass .
        As for The Godfather it just now seems as if He’s about to cut all ties with any real Catholicism altogether. The Man is without a doubt a total Scandal as regards Catholicism.
        Av also no doubt that Should He as it seems probable Outlaw the Latin Mass . He will also come up with something like it is a Mortal Sin to attend it . Would anything surprise us now from this Marxist.

        July 3, 2021 at 9:20 pm
      • Athanasius

        FOOF

        Yes, I think you are yet another of the greater majority who, like me, prefer the silent adoration of Calvary in low Mass to the distraction of well meaning but not very good choirs. The Popes who favoured the sung Mass and wanted to win others to it had very strict rules on this this should be achieved. Those rules are generally trampled with the result that what the Popes feared most, i.e, turning the faithful against the sung Mass, is exactly what’s happening.

        The other issue for me is that one or two priests are so fixated with th esung Mass that they inadvertantly degrade the low Mass to the point of material heresy. That’s very worrying!

        July 3, 2021 at 11:14 pm
  • westminsterfly Reply

    Well if this happens, then perhaps the SSPX can hire large halls in various places and offer Mass in them to as many as possible, because at present, the vast majority of Catholics in the UK – myself included – haven’t got reasonable access to one of their chapels. I’m sure a weekly collection will help to cover hiring the cost of such halls. They are the priests – not us – and they’ve got to do everything practicable to ensure that as many people as possible can attend the Mass, and surely the lay people will assist them in that task. Also, if the ‘Ecclesia Dei’ communities get thrown out of their churches for refusing to offer the Novus Ordo, then they should do the same thing. It’s about making the TLM as widely available as possible, to as many as possible. It happened before in the 1970’s when the TLM was being offered in hotels and all sorts of places. Far from ideal, but it kept it alive. Also, I think the TLM movement is stronger now than it was then and has youth on its side (look at the Chartres pilgrimage) and won’t be pushed around so easily. And if anyone is supporting their diocese financially in anyway (unbelievable, but I’ve heard of some otherwise good Catholics still misguidedly do it) – stop it, and stop it NOW. And tell the diocese why you are stopping it.

    July 3, 2021 at 1:54 pm
    • editor Reply

      WF,

      Our Glasgow SSPX church is in a difficult location, no car park (from time to time we were allowed to park in a nearby “workplace” car park but that’s no longer permitted) and the church is in poor repair, with the grounds overgrown to the point where I believe the producers of “I’m a celebrity get me out of here” have applied to use it for the jungle location in the next series. I kid you not. Well, I do kid, that’s hyperbole, but you’ll (I hope) get the picture… Here’s a picture of an overgrown garden in rather better condition than that which (doesn’t) grace the grounds of our very small church…

      https://st3.depositphotos.com/1003464/15714/v/600/depositphotos_157149312-stock-video-overgrown-with-weeds-abandoned-garden.jpg

      Your reference to halls reminds me that I once suggested putting the church on the market to see how much money some innocent abroad person or hotelier would be willing to pay for it. It’s on a level with a row of small hotels. Then, instead of the uphill (literally) struggle to reach it for Mass, we could have Mass in the hotel located right next door to the NCP car park in Cambridge Street (fixed price on Sundays) and round the corner from the bus station with bus stops dotted around, as well. In due course, once the property had sold and the priests had found a new church with car park and priests’ house attached, we could all switch locations and live and worship happily ever after. Again, literally…

      For my imaginative possible solution I was given a sweet smile, a metaphorical pat on the head and more or less told to get back to my computer to type for Scotland.

      What more can a gal do, WF? Rhetorical question, of course…

      July 3, 2021 at 7:27 pm
  • Miles Immaculatae Reply

    This will be beneficial for the FSSPX because it will further vindicate Archbishop Lefebvre, and more people will concede that the Society has always had the correct perspective on the crisis. Those who are sitting on the fence might begin attending the Society’s chapels, which is a good thing. The FSSP et al. have compromised with modernist Rome, and they need a dose of reality, which Pope Francis might soon give them. The FSSP are still waiting for Rome to give them their own bishop and you would have thought that the FSSP would have taken the hint already.

    If Pope Francis does replace SP with a new motu proprio, then I hope he will abrogate that ludicrous term ‘extraordinary form’ [sic.] which was coined by Benedict XVI. When so-called ‘traditionalist Catholics’ use that particular appellation, it is an indication that they have a distorted and/or incomplete view of the crisis, or they might be culturally snobbish and affected modernists who enjoy the TLM merely for aesthetic reasons. Plenty of these types are to be found at diocesan and FSSP et al. Masses. A new motu proprio could separate the wheat from the chaff.

    The FSSPX needs to do more to reach out to these potential new converts to true Tradition. It’s a shame that the society is tainted with clericalism and they too often, in my experience, underappreciate the apostolic zeal and talents of the lay persons who come to their chapels. If the clergy of the FSSPX do not cooperate with their laity, then they will not effectively carry out the apostolic mission of the Catholic Church. For example, I offered to make the music better at my SSPX chapel, but the clergy did not trust me, and they wanted to organise everything themselves, even though they have not the time. Consequently the choir is chaotic and will never improve. On another occasion, I attempted to establish a praesidium of the Legion of Mary, but this was futile. The priest said “are you sure you know what you are doing”, which was insulting, because I was an officer of the Legion (secretary) of Scotland’s largest praesidium, and I was good at it. The Society’s clergy seem to think that their laity are stupid, at least that’s how I feel I have been regarded. Too many wasted opportunities. I have given up, and I will no longer cast my pearls before swine.

    The compromised ‘traditionalist’ groups, such as ICKSP, already have superior liturgies to the FSSPX in Great Britain, and this is something about which the district should be embarrassed. Our supposedly ‘traditional’ chapel was established in the 1980s and still does not have a pipe organ, positive organ, or digital classical organ. There is a children’s Japanese electronic keyboard with one suitable organ registration. Sung masses there are of a very poor quality. These new converts will arrive at our chapel and the disorganisation they will encounter might cause scandal and cause them never to return.

    July 3, 2021 at 3:18 pm
  • RCAVictor Reply

    “CNA reported last week that, according to the archdiocesan media office, in the place of the FSSP diocesan priests would be asked to celebrate both the ordinary and extraordinary forms of the Mass to allow ‘a permanent exchange between people of both rites.'”

    In other words, the new motu proprio, if it exists, is actually implementing the poison pill at the heart of the letter that accompanied Summorum:

    “For that matter, the two Forms of the usage of the Roman Rite can be mutually enriching: new Saints and some of the new Prefaces can and should be inserted in the old Missal.”

    Not to mention this false conception of “unity”:

    “The celebration of the Mass according to the Missal of Paul VI will be able to demonstrate, more powerfully than has been the case hitherto, the sacrality which attracts many people to the former usage. The most sure guarantee that the Missal of Paul VI can unite parish communities and be loved by them consists in its being celebrated with great reverence in harmony with the liturgical directives. This will bring out the spiritual richness and the theological depth of this Missal….It is a matter of coming to an interior reconciliation in the heart of the Church.”

    That reminds me, tell me again why the modern Church considers Ratzinger a “great theologian”??

    https://zelanti.org/documents/summorum-pontificum/letter-accompanying-summorum-pontificum/

    July 3, 2021 at 3:56 pm
  • Athanasius Reply

    Miles Immaculate

    I have to disagree with your declaration that the SSPX does not compromise with Rome like the other Traditional instituions. This was certainly true when Archbishop Lefebvre was alive, but not now.

    The SSPX has compromised on abortion-tainted vaccines – taking the Modernist Vatican line against even the sound teaching of Archbishop Vigano, Bishop Schneider and other Traditional prelates of note. The SSPX also invited a novus ordo priest to share a podium with Bishop Fellay at the Angelus conference. The priest in question is a so-called expert on John Paul II’s Theology of the body and uses this doctrine to advise people who are addicted to pornography. His most glaring error was when he once Tweeted that when tempted with impure thoughts we should invite Our Lord into our minds to view them with us. This is so contrary to what the Church and the saints have taught about impurity and the need to take urgent flight from such thoughts.

    Then there’s Fr. Paul Robinson’s book “The Realist Guide to Science and Religion”, which attempts to establish common ground between atheistic evolutuionary science and Sacred Scripture. The upshot of it all is that doubt is cast on the integrity of the Genesis narrative – quite apart from the question of whether or not there were 7 actual days of Creation or some other period of time.

    Then there’s the general SSPX silence on the scandals of the Francis Pontificate while holy prelates like Archbishop Vigano put their neck on the line to speak openly and bravely for the truth. Archbishop Lefebvre wouldn’t have been silent but the SSPX hierarchy today is silent and that silence is due to the fact that Francis has thrown a few sweeties in the direction of the SSPX to keep it quite while he destroys all other manifestations of Tradition in the Church.

    As for the SSPX and Gregorian chant at parish level – they would do well to leave it alone and give the faithful a break. You’re absolutely right about the ICKSP, that institution is light years ahead of the SSPX in choir formation and music. I heard one of their sung Masses in Rome and it was absolutely sublime, sung only by 4 people, perfectly trained.

    The SSPX, certainly in the UK, has no clue how to properly form a choir, and even less interest in following the rules laid down by the Popes in order to preserve the integrity of the holy sacrifice. My personal experiences with SSPX sung Masses over 35 years has put me off Gregorian chant for life, especially those 90-120 minutes efforts which expose an absence of pastoral understanding as well as a complete disregard for the Traditional culture of the faithful in countries where Gregorian chant was not the norm in parish life before the Council.

    I know I am not alone in preferring the silent adoration afforded by the low Mass, like Calvary, rather than the distraction of a crudely put-together choir with no formal training. While the latter may indulge the inclinations of a couple of priests and a handful of enthusiasts, it is ultimately destructive of the spiritual lives of the normal simple Catholic who craves peaceful prayer, wholesome sermons, devotions such as rosary novenas, benediction, Stations of the Cross and so many other aspects of simple Catholicism.

    My brother, my sister and her whole family have been forced to abandon the SSPX in Edinburgh after 35 years precisely because of these imposed sung Masses every Sunday. They now attend the masses of a Glasgow parish priest, noteable, as all good parish priests are, for his very outspoken devotion to Our Blessed Lady and her rosary. This is how it used to be in the SSPX, every single priest had such a great devotion to Our Lady and transmitted that to the faithful. Now all we get is bad singing at every opportunity to satify a handful while simple piety gradually disappears. It’s a very serious problem that will have to be addressed soon if the SSPX is to survive and prosper. Unless the priests are driven by Marian devotion and simple piety everything will continue to deteriorate, including our Glasgow church building!

    I really hope the SSPX gets its act together on this because Francis is set on neutralising it. The SSPX has been the leading institution in the Church against Modernism, the reason why all others exist. If it does not return to something of its original zeal soon, casting off this indifference that has set in over the past 10 years, then I fear it will fade into relative obscurity. Right now the superiors need to look to Archbishop Vigano for their lead – follow his spirit of devotion to Our Lady and brave opposition to the errors of this Pope – just as once they had the lead of a similarly saintly prelate to follow in Archbishop Lefebvre. In the meantime I suggest less singing and a lot more rattling of the beads!

    July 3, 2021 at 4:44 pm
    • editor Reply

      Athanasius,

      “I really hope the SSPX gets its act together on this because Francis is set on neutralising it..”

      You got that right. And, sadly, the SSPX seems intent on making it easy for Francis to neutralise it. It really is puzzling.

      July 3, 2021 at 7:14 pm
    • Miles Immaculatae Reply

      Athanasius,

      Cardinal Burke has denounced the FSSPX as schismatic and I suspect that he is a false friend of Tradition. As far as I am aware, Bishop Schneider and Archbishop Vigano have not denounced the FSSPX as schismatic, but do you know if they have abandoned the NO, or do they still say it? If they still say the NO I think they are perpetuating the crisis, rather than fighting it.

      +Vigano and +Schneider are zealous, and many of the FSSP priests are zealous, but zeal is not the guarantor of doctrinal integrity. After all, Opus Dei are zealous, even though they are modernist. Many protestants are also zealous.

      July 3, 2021 at 7:18 pm
      • Athanasius

        Miles Immaculatae

        It is precisely for the reason you mention that I left Cardinal Burke’s name out of those Traditional prelates. As far as I am aware, Archbishop Vigano and Bishop Schneider celebrate the ancient Mass exclusively.

        I agree that while zeal is no guarantee of orthodoxy, it’s absence is a certain sign of a slide into indifference. The true Traditional Catholic is both orthodox and zealous. Archbishop Vigano is a classic example of the true Traditional Catholic and that’s why more and more Catholics are hearing the voice of this true shepherd call speak above the otherwise deafening silence.

        July 3, 2021 at 8:31 pm
      • Miles Immaculatae

        This means that Tradition has six bishops: Bishops Fellay, de Galarreta, Huonder, Schneider, Tissier de Mallerais, and Vigano (‘Resistance’ and sedevacantists are excluded). Unfortunately, their mean age is 70, so they will have to consecrate successors soon.

        July 3, 2021 at 11:28 pm
      • Athanasius

        Miles Immaculatae

        Not if God brings a few more like Bishop Lazo, Archbishop Vigano and Bishop Schneider back to Tradition, which He is perfectly capable of doing in due time.

        July 4, 2021 at 12:19 am
  • westminsterfly Reply

    Athanasius
    I entirely agree with you. Give me a quiet Low Mass any time. Less singing, more praying. Exactly.

    July 3, 2021 at 5:12 pm
    • Athanasius Reply

      Westminsterfly

      I strongly suspect you echo the sentiments of most of the faithful in the UK. Sadly, though, the authority is in the hands of a few with a different and entrenched view.

      July 3, 2021 at 6:18 pm
    • Warydoom Reply

      Westminsterfly,

      Ditto!

      July 5, 2021 at 11:28 am
      • Theresa Rose

        Westminsterfly,

        I too agree, I much rather have a quiet Low Mass for the same reason.

        July 5, 2021 at 5:42 pm
  • Miles Immaculatae Reply

    RCA Victor,

    One cannot make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.

    July 3, 2021 at 7:10 pm
    • editor Reply

      MI,

      I was about to launch into a theological treatise in response to RCA Victor’s post re “CNA etc.” when I saw yours – talk about putting it in a nutshell!

      You got it in one!

      July 3, 2021 at 7:12 pm
  • editor Reply

    Seems this news about forthcoming restrictions on the TLM is no rumour…

    July 3, 2021 at 9:26 pm
    • Athanasius Reply

      Editor

      Yes, the evil in the highest offices of the Church is becoming evermore manifest. Those who hate the Traditional Mass of the Church are servants of Satan – their detestation of the rite that sanctified the saints and martyrs is a classic sign of the demonic presence in their souls

      July 4, 2021 at 12:32 am
  • Portsmouth Reply

    In this country the Ordinariate, on the day of her foundation , was given an Ordinary.

    In the USA the Ordinariate was recently given a Bishop.

    The fact the the FSSP and Institute of Christ the King have never had a single Bishop says a lot.

    July 3, 2021 at 9:35 pm
    • Mr Raphael F. Rickson Reply

      There presently exists not one single Traditional Catholic jurisdiction. Bishop Schneider does not have jurisdiction because he is auxiliary bishop, and neither does +Vigano because he is retired. Bishop Rifan has jurisdiction (Personal Apostolic Administration of Saint John Mary Vianney) but he cannot be considered a Traditional Catholic because he has compromised by concelebrating the Novus Ordo Mass:

      http://archives.sspx.org/bishop_de_castro_mayer/campos_accordance/bishop_rifan_concelebration.htm

      http://archives.sspx.org/sspx_and_rome/bishop_fellay_extract_bishop_rifan.htm

      It is Rome’s policy not to consecrate a priest a bishop unless he fully accepts Vatican II. If the FSSP is given a bishop, he will be modernist.

      July 3, 2021 at 10:58 pm
    • Athanasius Reply

      Portsmouth

      I have never personally favoured this Ordinariate business, which I consider to be the establishment in the Catholic Church of a group of disaffected Anglicans hanging on to their Anglican traditions while enjoying the comfort of Rome’s more rigid stance on moral issues and a male clergy. Famous Anglcan converts like Cardinal Newman did not seek special dispensations and terms when he returned to the Catholic Church – nor would they have been granted in the days of Tradition.

      That it is just another manifestation of false ecumenism was confirmed in the following Papal declaration:

      “[The Ordinariate] should be seen as a prophetic gesture that can contribute positively to the developing relations between Anglicans and Catholics. It helps us to set our sights on the ultimate goal of all ecumenical activity: the restoration of full ecclesial communion in the context of which the mutual exchange of gifts from our respective spiritual patrimonies serves as an enrichment to us all.”

      — His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI

      That Rome granted a bishop to this Ordinariate is not a mark of special treatment but rather of the unusual and controversial nature of the Ordinariate within the Catholic Church. The FSSP and ICK don’t need individual bishops set apart for them since, as cradle Catholics with no special demands, they have access to all Catholic bishops.

      July 3, 2021 at 11:07 pm
      • editor

        Athanasius,

        An excellent summary of the truth of the “Ordinariate” situation. I totally agree with your every word on this.

        I was living in the Portsmouth Diocese, as it happens, when certain local clergy were expressing their discontent with the Ordinariate clergy – not for the reasons which you outline, but because, as they put it: “How come these Anglican clergy can be married and become Catholic priests, and we can’t marry?”

        Right there, a clear reason why this Ordinariate business was and remains a very bad idea.

        July 3, 2021 at 11:16 pm
      • Athanasius

        Editor

        I think we may rest assured that the Modernist innovators in the Church will use that to the full to push for a married clergy. As far as I’m concerned there is no “Anglican patrimony” other than its tragic break from the true religion. I pray that all Anglicans return to the faith of their ancestors – but without strings attached. One is either Catholic or Anglican, not a bit of both!

        July 4, 2021 at 12:16 am
      • RCAVictor

        Athanasius,

        Regarding an Anglican patrimony, a survey of typical Anglican websites demonstrates that they consider the history of the Catholic Church to be part of their patrimony. Shameless.

        Sort of like Joke Biden considering himself to be a real President…

        July 4, 2021 at 12:50 am
      • Athanasius

        RCAVictor

        Yes, I agree. It’s a conscience thing, I think.

        July 4, 2021 at 12:57 am
  • editor Reply

    In honour of America’s Independence Day, and in gratitude to our American bloggers – especially RCA Victor -for all they do to contribute to the Catholic Truth apostolate.. Sorry this is a bit late in the day (over here, anyway) but, better late than never, wishing you all across The Pond, A very Happy 4th July!

    July 4, 2021 at 5:24 pm
  • Portsmouth Reply

    The Ordinariate fulfils the prayers of generations of Anglo Catholics and Anglo Papalists who desired unity with Rome.

    Many Anglo Catholic priests faced persecution for their beliefs if not imprisonment.

    Think of the Anglo Catholic monks at Nashdom, the nuns at St Peter’s Convent, Woking, the monks on Caldey Island, the shrine in Walsingham reestablished by Fr Hope Patten, the back to baroque movement of the 1920s and the numerous AC parishes which used the Traditional Roman Missal (either in Latin or using the English Missal- a translation of the Roman Missal into Elizabethan English ) hoping that one day there would be corporate unity with Rome.

    Any hopes are now dashed because of the irreversible changes made in the CofE.

    Let us welcome those who wish to be brought into full communion with Rome. The Ordinariate revives English Catholicism. No need to worship at the local Diocesan parish- the Italian Mission to the Irish

    July 4, 2021 at 5:26 pm
    • editor Reply

      Portsmouth,

      Sorry, but there’s no such thing as an “Anglo-Catholic”. One is either a Catholic or an Anglican or a member of another post-Reformation community. The only exception to that would be if we are distinguishing ourselves by virtue of our nationality – so I’m a Scots Catholic, others may be English Catholics or American Catholics but the Church in each of those lands is nothing more than “the Catholic Church”. There’s no comparison with a “mission” to different groups of Catholics based on their nationality, and an attempt to mix two different versions of Christianity, as if they can reside together as “Catholics”; it is not possible.

      I once attended an in-service day (for teachers in non-denominational schools),and the woman organising the music for a segment of the day chose all Latin pieces – Ave Maria e.g. I forget the rest. She was (and I assume still is) an Elder in the Church of Scotland. A very nice person, a terrific musician, great taste in music, obviously had a liking for Latin Catholic hymns, but could not, nevertheless, claim to be a Catholic. We became friends and kept in touch for a good while.

      This is not to belittle anyone who treasures whatever it is about Catholicism that they treasure, but they need to embrace the whole Faith, and not wish to keep a foot in both the Anglican and the Catholic “camps”, so to speak. Those who caused the rift in Christendom at the Reformation which has led to this confusion, will have a lot to answer for at their judgment.

      July 4, 2021 at 5:35 pm
      • Athanasius

        Editor

        Spot on! We are all obliged to accept the fullness of the faith, which has never been a-la-carte.

        July 4, 2021 at 8:30 pm
      • westminsterfly

        I’ve never been a fan of the Ordinariate, and this didn’t help https://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/3501/ordinariate-priest-in-civil-partnership-suspended and also in England, their cause has been taken up with immense fervour by none other than – Joanna Bogle – which immediately should ring alarm bells with regular readers of this blog. She herself is a cradle Catholic but got to join the Ordinariate because her husband is a convert. Strangely, he attends the Traditional Mass but she seems to spend her time denigrating it. One thing about the Ordinariate though – certain priests within the group have discovered the Traditional Mass and had started saying it regularly, but La Bogle appeared to want to put a stop to that, because she complained in some magazine (I think it was the Ordinariate journal called The Portal) about the Ordinariate taking up the TLM with gusto. She wanted them to stay true to their ‘Ordinariate’ rite. You couldn’t make it up.

        July 5, 2021 at 11:12 am
    • Miles Immaculatae Reply

      English Catholicism is the the Catholicism of the recusants. ‘Anglo-catholicism’ does not represent historical English Catholicism because it was only invented in the 19th century. The discrimination to which Anglo-Catholics were subjected is incomparable to the persecution that real Catholics in England had to deal with. The Catholic Church has always been open to Anglicans, and they never required an ordinariate to convert.

      July 4, 2021 at 5:43 pm
      • Athanasius

        Miles Immaculatae

        I agree 100%. The Church has always been ready to welcome back Anglicans, just as it is ready to welcome back schismatics and heretics from other sects, but she welcomes them back on her terms, not on their terms. There is only one universal religion established by Our Lord, which is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. There are no sub divisions within, no seperate cliques of people with “patrimonies” all of their own.

        July 4, 2021 at 8:28 pm
  • Portsmouth Reply

    I feel sorry for the Syro Malabar Catholics or Greek Orthodox Churches if that’s your opinion. Should they have gone the route of RCIA and in through the Diocese as well?

    Too many Catholics think that the Diocesan Churches of the Western Rite are the only option.

    July 4, 2021 at 5:55 pm
    • editor Reply

      Portsmouth,

      Catholic Truth has encountered people who want to convert and we never direct them to the RCIA programme in dioceses. We direct them to traditional priests.

      We are, remember, in the throes of an horrendous crisis in the Church and the world – a crisis without precedent. The Arian crisis now looks like a mere blip on a computer screen which immediately flags up a brief warning and then restarts, back to normal.

      Not so this time – this is a unique crisis, foretold, as we have pointed out here many times, and with a solution given from Heaven. Until we get a faithful pontiff – or at least an obedient one – willing to implement that solution, nothing will change for the better, things will worsen.

      July 4, 2021 at 8:43 pm
    • Miles Immaculatae Reply

      Portsmouth,

      You will find that ‘Lefebvre Catholics’ like me and many on this blog are far more respectful and accommodating of ritual diversity than many Novus Ordo diocesan types that you speak of. For example, the FSSPX is associated with another group of Traditional Catholics, Priestly Society of Saint Josaphat Kuntsevych (SSJK), who follow exclusively the Slavonic Byzantine Rite in the Ruthenian recension.

      If the Ordinariate begin saying Traditional Roman rite Masses in the authentic original Sarum Use, then I will happily attend an ordinariate Mass. However, the Ordinariate are more concerned with using their vernacular liturgies in cod-Elizabethan English, and these include the option to say Eucharistic Prayer II from the Novus Ordo Missae.

      The Anglo-catholics were not the only ones concerned with rediscovering authentic English Catholic patrimony. Augustus Pugin was a Catholic and he even built Catholic Churches which were intended to accommodate the traditional Sarum rite, for example St Giles in Cheadle, Staffordshire.

      July 4, 2021 at 10:38 pm
  • Portsmouth Reply

    Thank you for your responses but Rome has given us the Ordinariates. Let us support them and seek to bring many more Anglo Catholics and Lefebvre Catholics home.

    July 4, 2021 at 6:07 pm
    • editor Reply

      Portsmouth,

      What is a “Lefebvre Catholic”?

      That’s a new one on me…

      July 4, 2021 at 8:37 pm
    • Athanasius Reply

      Portsmouth

      Those “Lefebvre Catholics” you speak of are the only Catholics not to have departed from the 2000-year old faith in any way, shape or form, which is why they are targeted with silly tags like “Lefebvre Catholics” by compromise Catholics.

      Can’t say the same about the Modernist Rome Catholics or the so-called “Anglo-Catholics. As I said before, there is only one kind of Catholic and that’s the Catholic who has not altered or swayed from the 2000-year faith handed down in search of an imagined seperate “patrimony”. It really is that straightforward. What the Anglicans need to do is reset to the ancient religion up to the apostasy of Henry VIII to come back into union with the true Church of Rome and the faith of their ancestors.

      July 4, 2021 at 9:44 pm
      • editor

        Athanasius,

        Oh, I get it now – Portsmouth means that those Catholics who attend SSPX churches are “Lefebvre Catholics” because the SSPX was founded by Archbishop Lefebvre.

        I wonder if that means we’re supposed to call those who attend the Jesuit church in Glasgow “Jesuit” or “Ignatian” Catholics?

        You response is on the button, as usual. Right on the button!

        July 4, 2021 at 11:03 pm
    • Athanasius Reply

      Portsmouth

      Modernist Rome has given you the Ordinariate – I suspect things may have been a little different had Vatican II and its false ecumenism had not prepared the way.

      As far as I’m concerned those who wish to hang on to their “Anglican patrimony” are not fully convinced of the need before God to renounce their former errors in order to return to the true Church founded by Our Lord. In other words, they want to be different from all other Catholics with seperate privileges and a seperate structure within the Church as though proud of what their schismatic forefathers passed down to them. Doesn’t work for me – never will. Nor will I ever look upon married clergy as committed to the service of God in the special way that celibate clergy are (who follow the example established by Our Lord). I would never personally attend any church whose parish priest was married.

      July 5, 2021 at 12:46 pm
  • Portsmouth Reply

    Comment deleted. Maybe now you can understand why you remain in permanent moderation? Read our House Rules and if you are determined not to follow them, find another blog.

    ‘Bye now, missing you already…

    July 5, 2021 at 8:01 am
  • Josephine Reply

    If Pope Francis is determined to make it as difficult as possible for Catholics to get to a TLM, then he’s even worse than I thought and that is saying something.

    The one good thing about this, though, if it comes about, is that the priests of the FSSP and the ICKSP will have to take a stand and refuse to concelebrate the novus ordo. If they don’t, they’re finished.

    July 5, 2021 at 10:04 am
    • Athanasius Reply

      Josephine

      I agree entirely with your conculding statement. Tragic as this latest development with Francis and the Mass is, I wecome the fact that many priests are now going to be faced with a stark choice – the Latin Mass or the Novus Ordo.

      Too many have been happy not to oppose the Modernism in the Church as long as they have their own little chapels and their regular Tridentine Masses. Sadly, even the SSPX has fallen into a kind of indifference in recent years.

      Well, now we get to see who are the men and who are the boys – a black and white decision will have to be made for one Mass or the other, there will be no fence sitting allowed.

      I welcome the persecution because it brings the best out in real believing Catholics. Nice little compromise arrangements, such as we have witnessed in the Church with a number of Traditional-leaning institutions since their foundation in the 1980s, lead to indifference to the wider universal crisis afflicting the Mystical Body, giving an appearance of health when in fact there remains that untreated life-threatening disease eating away at the flesh and bones.

      July 5, 2021 at 12:59 pm
      • RCAVictor

        Athanasius,

        I think the same phenomenon has been happening in the political realm over here, as people see ever more clearly what the Democrats and the RINOs are trying to do (destroy the country), and so the ranks of America-first patriots are fast swelling.

        Part of this looming TLM situation seems to hinge on “concelebration.” What is the purpose of that novelty? I don’t understand it.

        July 5, 2021 at 3:46 pm
      • Athanasius

        RCAVictor

        I think the concelebration rule is based on what the Modernists have witnessed in recent years among younger priests in particular, which is that they are rejecting the Novus Ordo in favour of the ancient Mass. Hence, they will have the ultimatum laid before them: “celebrate our Protestant Mass as well or forego your right to celebrate the Catholic rite”!

        They’re terrified of the popularity the old Mass is gaining among the clergy and this is their way of trying to stem the flow. They’re evil as well, of course, for only evil people hate the Mass that sanctified the saints and martyrs.

        July 5, 2021 at 7:05 pm
      • Theresa Rose

        Athanasius,

        I agree, they are terrified of the popularity the old Mass is gaining among the clergy and this is their way of trying to stem the flow.

        From Gloria.tv

        https://gloria.tv/post/3NPHmqTSm8472c8gJVDb4a9f

        July 5, 2021 at 7:59 pm
      • Athanasius

        Theresa Rose

        I love some of these cartoons, they often say so much more than pages of writing.

        July 5, 2021 at 9:29 pm

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