Crisis in the Church: How Much (If Anything) Should We Tell Potential Converts…Nothing?
Editor Writes…
On Sunday, just gone, 15 May, 2022, we celebrated the reception into the Church of Carole, who featured in our July 2017 newsletter, front page (see headline above) and, more recently, her husband,
Carole had attended our Conference on 13 May, 2017, marking the 100th anniversary of the first Fatima apparition. Her husband was not present, but he did attend subsequent Fatima meetings which we’d been invited to host in various parishes, fondly imagining that he was there in the role, merely, of chauffeur. God had other ideas, and, in due course, he was also welcomed into the Church.
So, you can imagine my surprise when, during our May 15 Fatima event, when the conversation turned to whether or not we should alert would-be converts to the crisis in the Church, it turned out to be yours truly in favour, versus the rest of the room against!
Now, it seems to me that, far from making it more difficult for would-be converts to embrace the Faith, the Fatima forewarning of the crisis to come, does the opposite. I’m a simple gal. All I know is that, but for the Fatima warnings, I’d now be lapsed – big time. If it’s just nice “spiritual uplift – feelings” you’re after, you can get that over at the nearest Salvation Army hall.
Fatima is all about the crisis in the Church-specifically, of course, that third part of the Message withheld by the Vatican, for very obvious reasons. Still, we have the testimony of Cardinal Ciappi, who is widely quoted as stating that “In the Third Secret it is revealed, that the crisis in the Church begins at the top.” And “the top” has been severely lacking for years now, climaxing in Pope Francis the First – and – we sincerely hope – the Last.
Our Lady (with her message coming from God, of course) told Sr Lucia that the third part of the Message of Fatima (i.e. that part which is about the Church) was to be revealed to the world, no later than 1960, because at that time, it would be more easily understood. Not half. The Bishops were set to launch one of the most radical and divisive Councils in the history of the Church, giving Modernists the opportunity for which they had been waiting for a very long time, held back for a while only by Pope Saint Pius X’s encyclical Pascendi Dominici Gregis, On the Doctrine of the Modernists…
So, there we have it – the Second Vatican Council 1962-1965… And things have never been quite the same since. So, isn’t it a charity, a means of strengthening the Faith of potential converts to tell them about Fatima, quoting the authority of those (public prophetic) revelations? Apart from the 70,000 plus witnesses to the miracle of the sun, the Church has now canonised two of the three seers – and the Cause of the third is progressing: Sister Lucia has been accorded the title Servant of God, which is the first major step on the road to canonisation.
How can informing potential converts about Fatima and thus the crisis in the Church (for the two are inextricably tied), deter them from becoming Catholics? How else to explain the scandals, especially child abuse by clergy, if not by the diabolical disorientation foretold at Fatima? I don’t get it. Convince me…
Comments (21)
Well, my first thought was, if you don’t warn them that there is a crisis in the Church, how will they be wary of the parish RCIA course? I’ve met people undergoing that course for converts and they ended up being really confused. I think it’s much easier to say God sent his mother to forewarn us, than to try to whitewash things. It’s not as if people don’t know about the scandals. They do.
Lily,
Very good point. A friend of mine, recently deceased, used to tell me about his RCIA course, and said that when he asked questions, it was obvious they were not welcome. Since he had been reading about Fatima for years before he became a Catholic and so was, presumably, aware of the key crisis issues, I was impressed that he had the knowledge and courage to ask questions. Not so impressed with the response from his course leaders.
Something else of interest has just come to my mind. At one of our previous conferences, Martin Blackshaw aka Athanasius, gave a marvellous talk about Our Lady. Shortly afterwards, a gentleman in the audience approached me to say he had been working on a talk on Our Lady which he was to deliver at the next RCIA meeting, adding that he was now going home to tear it up and start again. I then introduced him to Martin, who, needless to say, was on the receiving end of all the glory… 😀
Editor,
What were the reasons given for not telling converts about the crisis?
Josephine,
Two reasons were given – I paraphrase…
1) It’s much better to simply talk about the beauty of the Faith, the love of Our Lord etc. I assume that includes discussion about the significance and effects of the sacraments.
2) Talking about the crisis in the Church would confuse the person – and put them off.
You can still talk about the beauty of the Faith – Christ sending his mother to earth in 1917 to warn us of the crisis to come, is very much a part of that beauty, IMHO.
The logic for not informing converts about the crisis in the Church might be the same as not informing American citizens about the takeover of their government by communists and fascists (aka the Democrat Party): keep them asleep and distracted with bread and circuses. Or was it “their feelings might be hurt”? Oh wait: the way things are going, pretty soon there will be no bread for distraction.
Setting aside the sarcasm for a moment….
Meanwhile, back at reality, it turns out that those citizens who become informed about the secular crisis become quite active in politics, to re-assert the values of Western Civilization – including patriotism. Likewise, judging from my own experience, those who become informed about Fatima, Vatican II, and the Traditional Mass will immerse themselves in Church history and her Magisterium as much as possible, and be better Catholics for it.
So yes, it is definitely an act of charity to urge converts to read and study the history of the Church. Conversely, it is an act of human respect to try to hide the successful machinations of the enemies of the Church. The latter course of action reminds me of a far-left woman I used to know, who insisted that children should not be exposed to the sight of a Crucifix, as it was much too gory and shocking and would disturb their innocence.
The ancient Greek motto inscribed on the temple of Delphi was “know thyself” (falsely attributed to Socrates). To which we should add, regarding the crisis in the Church, “know thine enemy.”
RCA Victor,
Meanwhile, back at reality, it turns out that those citizens who become informed about the secular crisis become quite active in politics, to re-assert the values of Western Civilization – including patriotism. Likewise, judging from my own experience, those who become informed about Fatima, Vatican II, and the Traditional Mass will immerse themselves in Church history and her Magisterium as much as possible, and be better Catholics for it.
That is exactly right. You don’t find medical doctors saying that diagnosing serious illnesses confuses them, and puts them off medicine. On the contrary, the logical response it to find out as much as possible about that diagnosis and try to find a cure. Which reminds me…
The doctor gave me six months to live, so I shot him.
The judge gave me 50 years. Problem solved.
Editor,
Don’t forget to demand cable TV and a gluten-free diet (not to mention 50 years’ worth of chocolate) to enhance your prison experience. Oh, I’m thinking of changing my blogger name to RCIA Victor…
RCA Victor
RCIA Victor, LOL!
Dear Editor, Josephine
In that perennial spirit of Catholic hope, I would like to think that those who do wish to enter the Church are truly aware or are given the fundamental understanding that the Faith is a supernatural reality in terms of origin and doctrinal content to begin with. It is of The Trinity- Christ. I hope that reality is made clear to them, it is not a human invention.
Yes by all means bring all the crisis etc to their attention and provide the necessary clarification regarding current areas of dispute and concern regarding the authentic Catholic faith morals and practices in lieu of the perennial infallible magisterial teaching of the Church and highlight the current errors regardless.
Those who are sincere and genuine in their desire to become Catholics – l have no doubts the Holy Spirit will guide and instil in them the Sensus Catholicus.
Regardless of our present circumstances we are people of Faith and the Message of Fatima is one of conversion lifestyle, in accordance with that beautiful gift of the Catholic faith.
As Our Blessed Mother made clear, in the end ……’ My immaculate heart will triumph’
Ave Maria.
Every blessing
Michael 🙏
Michael,
Nail on head, especially in your final quote from Our Lady, which is a message of hope.
I think the problem these days is that there is so much calling out “don’t be negative, be positive” that people have lost sight of the importance of the truth AND they misinterpret the “negative” bit…It’s never negative to highlight error(s) – how else are we to recognise them?
Apologies I was typing and missed RCA Victors excellent points also
Every blessing
Michael 🙏
I agree – it’s not possible to conceal the crisis in the Church from possible converts. That would be the same as false advertising, and dishonest. https://fatima.org/pope-john-paul-ii-gives-us-the-key-part-one/
If it’s explained carefully it shows that Jesus has kept his promise to safeguard the Church from errors that would mislead souls.
Editor,
I hope the disagreement didn’t spoil the event?
Michaela,
Not at all. The atmosphere the entire afternoon/evening was lovely and the discussion was very good-natured. Everyone said they enjoyed the event and I’ve already had one email asking when we are going to host our next Conference.
I was just curious to see if it would be Bloggers Vs Editor as well, but I’m very pleased to see that is not the case. I also think that those who attended the event and perhaps read this thread, will think again. I’m not sure I made the case as well as I could have done, since some of the group seemed likely to be scandalised if I insisted too much. They were a lovely group and sincerely keen not to put people off converting. And of course, we would all want to begin by stressing the beauty of the Faith, Christ’s own power through the sacraments etc. I maybe didn’t emphasise that as much as I should, and so there may well have been a misunderstanding as if I meant to immediately say “hold on, there’s a huge crisis in the Church, sure you want to do this?” !
In short, no – the disagreement didn’t spoil the event, at all. Far from it.
Editor,
I’m not surprised it didn’t spoil the day – the truth is the important thing, even if it’s not welcome. Sounds like the event was blessed, and that’s great news.
That Carole had attended that Fatima Conference and her husband Tim had come along other Fatima events, that resulted in both of them becoming Catholics is due to Our Lady.
The crisis tin the Church today, I think that Pope John XXIII did not Consecrate Russia to her Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart. But called the second Vatican council. If he had realised and understood Our Lady’s request we would be in a different position now.
If only, (two sad words) he had enquired into the Bishops of Portugal’s Consecration of their country and the benefits they reaped in doing so.
https://fatima.org/the-consecrations-of-portugal-1931-1938-and-their-benefits/
Later after the conversation on Sunday, I was thinking about my brother as he said he does not attend mass because of the crisis.
At the time I was searching for answers for myself and once I found the traditional latin mass slowly it all began to make sense. I
Im so grateful to our lady of fatima, I had prayed to her to help me find the truth.
There is so much i could say about coming to tradition, Its completely changed my life and I’m still learning more.
A beautiful thankyou to all priests and laity who pray for convertions.
St Bernadette,
If your brother had understood the nature of the current crisis in the Church, he’s unlikely to have lapsed. It’s because people don’t know that Our Lady forewarned back in 1917 of a “diabolical disorientation” to come in the Church, they don’t know that she said that the Church would be in turmoil due to the failure of fidelity to Catholic Faith at the very top of the Church hierarchy (and whatever else has been concealed in the Third Secret) that so many have become confused and disillusioned. It’s why it would be neglectful (and counterproductive) not to explain carefully to potential converts why scandals are almost routinely occurring in our times. Far from causing someone to lapse (or refuse to enter the Church) any right-thinking person would be encouraged in the face of such direct supernatural intervention to warn the faithful in such-wise as to remind them of Christ’s promise that the gates of Hell would never prevail against His Church. He did not promise that the gates of Hell would not come close – as they have, most clearly – just that they will not win the battle.
I’ve already said (many times) that, but for the Fatima apparitions, and the indisputable evidence of their truth, I would have lapsed myself.
Yet priests fail to preach about Fatima. Shameful. And so, people like your brother are completely mixed up and can’t see the point of remaining in a Church which is – to use the popular buzzword – dysfunctional. They can’t see that their sins are still absolved, and they still receive Our Lord, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, in Holy Communion, priestly infidelity and shocking scandals notwithstanding. The Devil is clever.
The friend I mentioned (either here or on another thread, I’m not sure) who is recently deceased, became a convert after researching Fatima. Years before his conversion, he would ask his wife, on her return from Mass, if the priest had mentioned Fatima in the pulpit and he would express his amazement that the answer was always “no” – they never preached about Fatima. He couldn’t believe it. But when the scandals surfaced, he “got it”. Right away.
Years before his conversion, he actually went to the presbytery door on one occasion to ask if he could speak to the priest, and he expressed his concerns that something so monumentally important as Fatima isn’t, apparently, thought important enough to explain/preach in the pulpit. The priest invited him into his room where he showed him a small statue of Our Lady of Fatima, saying that he had a devotion to Fatima, but (and here is the typical and very huge error) “it is a private revelation and we don’t preach about them.” Wrong. Father Gruner (RIP) – “The Fatima Priest” – corrects this major error in this linked article.https://fatima.org/apparitions-at-fatima-cannot-be-dismissed/
Maybe it’s not too late to speak to your brother and inform him about Fatima. Pray to his Guardian Angel before your broach the subject, though – you’ll need someone on his side to assist you 😀
Yes editor that’s what I had meant to say I think we should talk about the crisis as I understood when I learned the truth. So therefore explaining all this to my brother would make more sense to him unfortunately he does not discuss it.
I do apologise if i had not clarified what I meant, what a great response, I may guide him to this discussion. Thank you
I don`t ever recall Fatima being mentioned at Mass or in church other than at Missions. We used to look forward to The Missions where two or three, normally of The Cross and Passion, priests would give sermons that everyone loved, even as young children. They would last a week and would include the Rosary and benediction and would give lapsed catholics a chance to return to the faith. Other means of learning about Fatima would be by small booklets by CTS which, it seems, have gone out of fashion. The nuns also, in school, would tell us about Fatima and Lourdes but never, ever from the pulpit.
As for telling prospective converts the truth about the Church: if I was buying a house I would wish to know of things that were not included in the survey, such as bad neighbours or being prone to flooding. Otherwise, I would feel that in the event of these occurring that I had been conned.