Pope Francis’ Attacks On Traditional Latin Mass

Pope Francis’ Attacks On Traditional Latin Mass

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Comments (42)

  • westminsterfly Reply

    What can you say? Anyone who hates the Mass of Ages, the Mass that formed and nourished so many of the Church’s saints and martyrs, must be in the grip of satan. There is no other logical reason. We’ve often discussed Sister Lucia’s words “diabolical disorientation” but this is not some nebulous concept – it is the work a fallen angel – the WORST of the fallen angels – having direct influence in varying degrees, on various people. Obviously, satan will go for the clergy first, and the higher the position, the more he will go for them.

    As Sister Lucia said in 1957 “Thus the devil does everything to overcome souls consecrated to God, because in this way the devil will succeed in leaving the souls of the faithful abandoned by their leaders, thereby the more easily will he seize them.” “That which afflicts the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the Heart of Jesus is the fall of religious and priestly souls. The devil knows that religious and priests who fall away from their beautiful vocation drag numerous souls to hell. … The devil wishes to take possession of consecrated souls. He tries to corrupt them in order to lull to sleep the souls of laypeople and thereby lead them to final impenitence. He employs all tricks, even going so far as to suggest the delay of entrance into religious life. Resulting from this is the sterility of the interior life, and among the laypeople, coldness (lack of enthusiasm) regarding the subject of renouncing pleasures and the total dedication of themselves to God.”

    But where does this leave us? At present, I have to go into Central London (30 minutes drive) to get to a diocesan TLM which is the nearest to me. There is nowhere in my ultra-liberal deanery that has one at any time. If the few London TLM’s are eventually stopped (there is a rumour going round that March 2023 is going to be the beginning of the all-out attack on diocesan TLM’s and what were known as ‘Ecclesia Dei’ communities). The FSSP have seemingly escaped so far – and I say seemingly, because I wouldn’t say they are 100% safe – far from it. In any event, from my point of view, the nearest FSSP centre is in Reading, miles away.

    I am already seriously thinking of selling my home and moving to an area with a local SSPX church, so I will know at least I will always have access to the sacraments. And if they are ‘excommunicated’ for continuing to practice the Faith of our Fathers, so be it. I’d rather that, than have to attend the protestantised LGBT-climate change-pachamama-covid paranoia fests that pass as Masses in my local area.

    July 19, 2022 at 7:37 am
    • Michaela Reply


      I agree that hatred of the old Mass comes from Satan. So, Pope Francis attitude to it is very worrying indeed.

      I’m not sure I would sell up and move house to be near an SSPX church, though – they went along with the Covid closure of churches and restrictions just like everyone else, remember, and who knows how much they might comply with Traditionis Custodes when push comes to shove. They’re not excommunicated – they’re just in an irregular situation because they are not in the dioceses but if there’s one thing I’ve learnt on this blog, it’s that the SSPX is not excommunicated, or in schism. LOL!

      Mother Miriam is lovely! She got right to the point and was very clear about the rightness of criticising the pope when he is attacking the faith, and all in a matter of minutes! All the men making videos out there, Taylor Marshall, Michael Matt etc could learn a trick or two from her!

      July 19, 2022 at 8:59 am
      • westminsterfly

        I know SSPX weren’t excommunicated or in schism which is why I put the word excommunicated in inverted commas. Francis might pronounce some form of punishment, by way of saying they are in ‘schism’ or ‘excommunicated’ but in my view such a pronouncement would be invalid. The diabolical disorientation didn’t start with Francis – JPII ‘excommunicated’ Abp Lefebvre, while all the time supporting and protecting the monstrous pervert Fr Marcial Maciel Degollado and his ‘Legionaries of Christ’. The SSPX haven’t complied with TC so far to the best of my knowledge. I still think they’re the final option for the TLM if the diocesan / Ecclesia Dei ones are stopped. Very few will be fortunate to find a priest who will covertly offer Mass weekly at a regular venue. It is disappointing that SSPX went along with the covid closures, but then no organisation, nowhere, is perfect. We’ve just got to do the best we can in the current crisis.

        July 19, 2022 at 9:29 am
      • Laura


        I think you could safely sell up and move – this video has a priest of the SSPX speaking about how Traditionis Custodes won’t affect them. So, here’s hoping that’s true. If the Archbishop of Glasgow clamps down, though, I’m not sure there would be room for us all in the SSPX chapel which is quite small and packed (or it used to be.) I’m not sure there would be room for all the TLM Mass-goers if Balornock, Bridgeton and Toryglen are disallowed. So far there’s been no change, so let’s hope things stay that way.

        July 19, 2022 at 1:53 pm
      • Margaret Mary

        The Archbishop of Glasgow is taking his time – he’s only put a stop to one TLM and it’s the First Saturday Mass in Toryglen. I hope he stops right there.

        July 19, 2022 at 2:29 pm
    • Marinaio Reply


      It sounds as if you may be in the enviable position of being able to relocate without disruption to your occupation or income. If that is the case, I would heartily agree that it is preferable to be near a Mass center with daily or regular Mass and Sacraments. When I retired from the military nearly 30 years ago, I was able to move my family to one of the two largest traditional Catholic communities, Post Falls, Idaho. We had visited the largest — St. Mary’s, Kansas — but decided on the more scenic spot with a rapidly growing number of faithful. Over the years, we have seen many, many families and young single Catholics move here, some without any plan for livelihood other than hope and prayer.

      In the last two weeks, I have had the opportunity to take some vacation time from my current job, and I have spiritually profited from being able to attend Mass each morning. That is the very large “plus” side of the equation of whether or not to relocate. At my age, it is a comfort to know that I have ready access to the Sacraments and that, hopefully, a priest will be there for us when the time comes for Extreme Unction. The “down” side is that no place is perfect — certainly not a group of nearly 2,000 “trads”. Everyone — including each of the eight priests — has his own idea of what it means to “instaurare omnia in Christo”. If you decide to move, don’t set your expectations that the community to which you attach yourself will be a panacea for all the ills of the world and the times. It just will not be. But having said that, both Mrs. Marinaio and I agree that, in spite of some very real concerns (as Michaela quite correctly articulated) over the years, coming here three decades ago was the best move we could have made.

      My suggestion: think about it, pray about it, keep your expectations low regarding community life among scores or hundreds of other traditional Catholics, and just be thankful for the Mass and the Sacraments. It’s all we can do. As one priest correctly put it: those at my age are “awaiting judgment,” or as St. Alphonsus said, trying to undo all the time we should have spent gaining merits for heaven, when instead we were wasting time in frivolous things that were not spiritually edifying. While we still have time left, let us do penance, and be present for the Mass of the Ages whenever we can. If you move to your new spot with that mindset, you will be properly disposed. I wish you all the best. God bless you.

      July 19, 2022 at 2:13 pm
      • editor


        …keep your expectations low regarding community life among scores or hundreds of other traditional Catholics, and just be thankful for the Mass and the Sacraments. It’s all we can do. As one priest correctly put it: those at my age are “awaiting judgment,” or as St. Alphonsus said, trying to undo all the time we should have spent gaining merits for heaven, when instead we were wasting time in frivolous things that were not spiritually edifying. While we still have time left, let us do penance, and be present for the Mass of the Ages whenever we can.

        That’s a terrific suggestion. And it’s cannily like a suggestion that came to me from a priest, more than once, actually, back in the not-so-far-distant past and again more recently. At my age I should be preparing to meet my Maker. And me, only 29! Seriously, I appreciate the suggestion – the fact that death can come at any moment is something about which I’ve been acutely aware, thanks be to God, throughout my life. Especially when I began to drive 😀 Still, there can never be too many such reminders.

        Again, seriously, I’m working on that suggestion myself. It sounds heavenly. I just need to wean myself off the beliefs I was taught in my now far-off schooldays, something to the effect that our Confirmation duty is life-long; also, although sometimes the things we do must often seem not spiritually edifying… (thinking of saints, e.g. St Louis Marie De Montfort, who had quite a temper and ended up in fistfights defending the Faith – apparently if he saw someone doing something which he thought offended God, he didn’t hesitate to take aim 😀 ) – so the apparently “not spiritually edifying” might, nevertheless, who knows, be pleasing to God.

        In short, I’m very open to this idea. To be able to spend what’s left of my unworthy life in prayer and spiritual reading (not to mention the odd crime mystery!) would be wonderful. Watch this space! Or, maybe that should be Don’t watch this space 😀

        July 19, 2022 at 3:52 pm
      • Faith of Our Fathers

        2 Great Comments from 2 Good People who like all on Here just want to be left in Peace to go and Worship at The Mass of Ages.
        Am also without a Doubt in The Winter of My Life and thank God that He gave me Time to at least try my best to right the wrongs that I did in my Youth.

        Going back to last year when the Godfather made it plain that He didn’t like us Rigid Catholics who will not move with Times. Probably none of us thought it really would be this Vengeful. Never mind, now that He’s pushing us out to the Peripheries am sure this Man of Great Mercy will now Help us.
        After all He’s going to go to Canada and have an Apologetic Mass for all of those Indigenous people whose ancestors were all cruelly Murdered by those terrible Catholic Missionary’s. Makes one wonder how any of them were Born.
        I can picture another Pachamama on the Horizon.

        Again going back to WF and how many good Catholics in my opinion have been taken in by the Man in Rome is really astonishing.
        I went into a Friends Home about 2 Months ago and there on his Living Room Wall was a large picture of Jorge Bergoglio. When I said to Him did He know the damage this Man was doing. He just kept on saying ” He’s a great Man a really great Man “. Is there something about Jorge Bergoglio that we’re missing ?

        July 19, 2022 at 4:59 pm
      • Athanasius


        I’m not sure I can agree with a benefits vs drawbacks approval of places like Post Falls and Kansas. I think trust in God and devotion to Our Lady through life is sufficient to secure Extreme Unction at the end, for God will not abandon His own just because of how they’re circumstanced.

        This post-Vatican II phenomena of the Catholic enclave, while appearing wholesome, is actually not in line with Church teaching re our Confirmation duty and can lead, as I think experience has shown on some occasions, to the development of cult-like thinking and behaviour, especially on the part of inexperienced priests. We have the Amish example as a warning to us of what can happen when we try to insulate ourselves from the world that we are supposed to try by our life and example to convert.

        I understand the attraction though, for many times I have let my imagination wander into thinking how great it would be to leave this troubled world behind with all its evil and unhappiness and go away into the wild hills of Scotland with other like-minded Catholics to form our own little haven of prayer, peace and tranquility. But life is not like that and I don’t think God has that in mind for most of us.

        What we actually need is that great miracle of restoration in the Church that will liberate all of us from this odd situation we presently find ourselves in and allow us to return to our parish churches under properly trained and motivated parish priests. Maybe I’m letting my imagination wander again!!

        July 19, 2022 at 6:39 pm
      • westminsterfly

        Thanks for your comments – you might have noticed I put in my second comment “no organisation, nowhere, is perfect. We’ve just got to do the best we can in the current crisis.” I never expect anywhere, anything or any person to be a panacea for all of life’s problems. Having worked for a religious order (although I wasn’t involved in the religious side of things – just purely administrative) for the past 11 years before taking early retirement, I am under no illusions about the shortcomings of any priests – even traditional ones. As far as Extreme Unction goes, I have done the First Fridays and First Saturdays many times, and have complete and utter trust in Our Lord’s and Our Lady’s promises attached to those devotions. It’s just the problem of getting the traditional sacraments now if the diocesan / ‘(ex) Ecclesia Dei community’ TLM’s are stopped. So moving to an area with an SSPX church seems to be my best bet. I’m also not too struck on ‘community / parish’ life either, preferring just to attend the Sacraments and use the Church for private devotions / Adoration and then just leave. I’ve always tended to steer clear of the ‘social’ side of things where the Church is concerned, so it won’t disappoint me if some of my co-religionists aren’t exactly my cup of tea. Anyway, this proposed move is in its infancy and a lot of prayer and thought is needed before anything happens. I might have to change my CT name, as ‘Westminster Fly’ will no longer apply! Arundel & Brighton Fly just doesn’t have the same ring about it . . . Thanks and God bless you.

        July 21, 2022 at 9:35 am
      • Laura


        You sound very level-headed about the SSPX – my friends are the same, they avoid the “old timers” as they’re called, as much as possible and just steer clear of any hot button issues. That makes for a peaceful life.

        The priests say they’re only there to give the sacraments anyway, and so it’s wise just to take them at their word and avoid any social involvement with the congregation. Even those of us blessed with a diocesan Mass would be wise to do the same, it keeps the stress levels down, LOL!

        July 21, 2022 at 11:28 am
      • westminsterfly

        I couldn’t agree more about having a peaceful life in a parish – any parish, SSPX or otherwise – as I found to my cost when I first became a Catholic in a novus ordo parish (about 37 years ago). I found the more I became involved, the more controversies, cliques and factions I was having to deal with. I suspect similar things occur in traditional parishes, perhaps to a lesser degree, but fallen human nature is the same, wherever you find it. That’s why I just keep myself to myself, attend the Sacraments and devotions, and exit stage-right a.s.a.p !

        July 22, 2022 at 6:36 am
  • Lily Reply

    The nun, Mother Miriam, is really great, I agree.

    I also agree that hatred of the TLM comes from Satan, just as love of the New World Order without God, comes from Satan. We have a terrible pope. Somewhere in his soul, he must know the importance of the TLM or he wouldn’t be going all-out to crush it. God forgive him, for his evil-doing.

    July 19, 2022 at 9:16 am
    • Laura Reply


      Mother Miriam is lovely and she’s fearless in calling out dissenters. She’s spoken out about Pope Francis and Bishop Barron. It’s a wonder she’s not been cancelled by now!

      July 19, 2022 at 1:55 pm
    • Faith of Our Fathers Reply


      Bergoglio is doing The Work of Satan and therefore He is not of God. I know Sister said we shouldn’t Criticize the Pope but should Criticize what He’s doing. Bergoglio is not nor never Has been a Catholic for if He were a Catholic He would not go all out to Destroy the Catholic Faith. Just last week Jimmy Martin was asked to talk at a Catholic Church. Good Catholics who didn’t want to Hear his Abominations of Homosexuality stood outside the Church praying the Rosary. These good Men and Women were doing Nothing else yet were Visibly attacked by so called Catholics going into listen to a Reprobate Priest. A man who has full support of Bergoglio, Cupich and Roche.

      As WF comments attack the good Priests cancel the Mass of Ages and everything is right for a fall . The writing is on The Wall for the New Babylon to really take root. Bergoglio only appoints Non Catholic Cardinals and Bishops who in Turn as was pointed out on Here last week Ordain Men who should never be Priests.

      Where we go from here only God knows but it’s time that as far as actions are concerned . To call a person a Demonic who carried out Demonic Acts. Especially against The Catholic Faith.

      July 19, 2022 at 3:22 pm
  • Nicky Reply

    This American bishop (Bishop Parkes) has done away with his TLM and blames the Vatican

    But Rorate Caeli publishes his letter and calls him a coward at the end of it:

    [Rorate note: What a bunch of sugary nonsense. What condescending syrup of piffle! Here’s hoping faithful priests will display bravery in the same proportion as this unfaithful bishop shows cowardliness by renouncing his powers of ordinary and delegating it all to the Vatican, as if he were some kind of impotent regional amanuensis. Honestly, lack of character hidden behind worthless cotton candy words is worse than plain brutality. Simply pathetic, Bishop Parkes.]

    July 19, 2022 at 2:01 pm
  • Theresa Rose Reply

    Cardinal Cupich more or less want to do away with the Institute of Christ the King, who offer the TLM. In that Traditionis Custodes is the only true expression of the Roman Rite.


    July 19, 2022 at 2:19 pm
  • RCAVictor Reply

    Francis hates the true Mass, and he hates the traditional priesthood (those priests “scare” him). Luther hated the Mass and the priesthood.

    Luther succeeded in forming his own religion because he was supported by secular princes who had their own anti-Church agenda. Francis thinks he will succeed in merging the Church with other world religions (thus creating a new religion – the real Vatican II project) because he is supported by, and ceaselessly mouths the agenda of, the globalist elites, the modern-day princes of fractional reserve banking.

    Interesting parallels….

    July 19, 2022 at 2:51 pm
    • Athanasius Reply


      Wasn’t it Luther who said “destroy the Mass and you will destroy the Catholic Church”? And didn’t Francis honour Luther with a statue somewhere in the Vatican?

      I think the point has been made many times by the saints and scholars who have observed that those who hate the Mass (TLM) are in very grave danger of losing their immortal souls. It’s not a good sign for this Pope.

      July 19, 2022 at 6:15 pm
  • Francis de sales Reply

    Don’t forget that Bergoglio was ordained in the old rite, including baptism, confirmation et al. But he ended up with deep dislike or frustration towards TLM.

    What gives🤷‍♀️ 🤔. We never know.

    TLM isn’t perfect cos we have had list of serial abusers ordained in TLM but a lot more so in NO mass( priests).

    But what I found in my experience was that TLM was more effective in tackling the demon spirits than NO mass cos I dabbled in new age things before I realised years later that it had opened to demonic doorways and also it needs to be confessed as well.

    That’s because no priest had spoken about it that I have heard.

    But I found out on the Internet re dangers of new age therapies and from there I had to look around for help and I found a priest who helped me.

    July 19, 2022 at 5:39 pm
    • Athanasius Reply

      Francis de Sales

      I’m not sure I would agree with you when you say “…we have had a list of abusers in TLM…” I’m aware of perhaps two or three such priests, one now in hiding in Argentina, but that’s hardly “a list” when we consider that there are literally thousands of TLM priests. To be honest, I don’t even think there’s a list of NO abuser priests. Again, there are some – I think around 0.02% of priests in the world, although the media has done it’s best to make everyone think there are a lot more.

      On the point you ake about demon spirits, I should point out that only trained exorcists are permitted to “tackle” them. The average parish priest is not authorised to exorcise demonic spirits, so I suspect that what you thought was possession of your soul was, in fact, obsession. The latter can still be a result of demonic activity but definitely not at the same level as actual possession. Still, I’m glad you’ve left behind all attachment to satanic New Age doctrine and returned to the true religion. I’m also glad you came back to that true religion in its Traditional holy form rather than the NewAge-influenced Novus Ordo version.

      July 19, 2022 at 6:12 pm
      • Francis de sales.


        There was a lot of abusers ordained at TLM old rite as I could name them such as , mc Carrick, Marciel Marcel of LC, Brendan Smyth, Baggio (cardinal), Fr Murphy in USA ( see movie maxima mea culpa), Weakland, Trujillo, sodano. Its not just that but NO mass priests were lot worse in my experience cos [allegation deleted, exceptionally serious, requires concrete proof.] something, I never thought that any priest would do that kind of thing. it was a priest of a religious order as diocese of Dublin stripped them years later re their spiritual role in school that I attended. It was 1st incident that I realised that something was wrong with the Catholic Church when I was a teenager. [Ed: wearingly, I repeat, it’s not THE CHURCH but churchMEN!)

        I’m aware of trained exorcists but it was very very difficult to find them or get hold of them. They were very reluctant to get involved even for a chat etc. It got my hairs standing up re windows opened itself, room broken into even though it was locked, armed with cctv, broken windows out of blue, seeing red eyes at 3am,tendency to lie uncontrollably which I found it very difficult to handle. I don’t think it was possession but that was something else that I don’t know what to call it (a name) . I never saw it before re these supernatural incidents. Every time I attended one particular church, there was a terrible dread of fear, which came over me every time I entered that church. It was an awful feeling re spiritual dread of fear as I didn’t understand it at that time.
        (Ed: look, you keep telling us about these incidents. May I (ever so) humbly suggest that you stick to attending the Traditional Latin Mass and forget about the past).

        It was a fluke that I dropped in one morning re TLM mass as I realised there was a difference in terms of spiritual warfare. Then I attend TLM as much as I did with HC. Then I attended NO as well when TLM wasn’t available. But that wasn’t enough so I had to go to confession. It reduced bit by bit then I realised one day there was 1 sin that I didn’t confess it or never confessed that sin. When I confessed it, a terrible dread of fear didn’t return when I entered a church afterwards. I felt calm afterwards.

        I attend TLM a lot less now cos difficulties re just 1 for whole day (they changed the times) while NO mass was all the rage with plentiful of it around at various times of the day at various locations in question.

        Both have pros and cons as they aren’t perfect. (Ed: wrong. Father Faber famously said that the TLM is the “most beautiful thing this side of Heaven. Sounds about as perfect as you’ll find in this passing world.) I got healed in NO mass but not in TLM. (Ed: gimme a break).. Its strange all right. Think relics in church might have played their part cos one day I felt a relic was missing inside one church that I used to see. Asked priest re relic as he said it was a fake relic in place cos true relic was stolen.

        What I didn’t realise was dabbling in new age therapies was most dangerous thing that I did without any awareness nor religious knowledge. Cos I was totally exposed as that was it. They look for a CRACK as that was plain simple as that re their entry. No priest ever told me about these new age dangers as I found out on the Internet. (Ed: well you know now, so avoid.)

        July 19, 2022 at 9:04 pm
      • Athanasius

        Francis de Sales

        Sodano, Trujilo, Baggio & weakland from your list were not sexual abusers. The scandal surrounding these prelates was that they enabled abuser priests by suppressing complaints and/or information about them. Of course they were bad prelates for a number of reasons, including the sex abuse cover ups, but they were not themselves abusers of children. The general defence offered on their behalf was that they tried to shield the Church from scandal by suppressing scandal. It was at best misguided.

        As for the other things you describe, your personal issues, I would suggest, and I don’t mean this in a nasty way, that your issues may be psychological rather than spiritual. Have you considered this? Anyway, Editor has hit the nail on the head about the TLM vs NO. The Novus Ordo is a Protestantised mass which has led to millions losing the faith, whereas the TLM is “the most beautiful thing this side of heaven” which has sanctified a veritable army of saints over many, many centuries. Hence, your statement that the NO helped you where the TLM failed runs contrary to reason, not to mention history and experience. I don’t buy it and that’s why I doubt your troubles were supernatural and asked the question about psycholgy.

        July 19, 2022 at 10:04 pm
      • editor


        I don’t know about the other two, but McCarrick was an abuser of seminarians.

        July 19, 2022 at 10:37 pm
      • Athanasius


        Yes, I’ll give you McCarrick for he definitely was an abuser. The other prelates mentioned by FdS though were not found guilty of abusing anyone personally.

        July 19, 2022 at 11:18 pm
      • editor


        That’s my speed reading again – I see you didn’t mention McCarrick; I thought he was on your list!

        Signed Confused, Glasgow 😀

        July 19, 2022 at 11:36 pm
      • Athanasius


        No, I left Mr. McCarrick out for obvious reasons. There are certain individuals who are simply beyond defending.

        July 20, 2022 at 1:12 am
  • Theresa Rose Reply

    I hate advertising the NO Mass. But, when you see it, or at least a portion of it side by side with the Traditional Latin Mass, it makes me sad that many people prefer the modern confection nowadays.


    July 19, 2022 at 6:50 pm
  • Michael 🙏 Reply

    Dear Friends

    I will be interested to see what the Vatican propose to do regarding the nature of the sacerdotal male priesthood- something Luther hated with a vengeance.

    I feel Pope Francis hostility regarding the TLM is deeply rooted in a divergent view of priesthood, liturgy, the moral teachings of the Church, along with a completely different ecclesiology.

    In short a new Church, a new religion and ultimately a mixture of presiders in different degrees at liturgical functions. All contrary to the orthodox Catholic faith.

    The counterfeit Church is here as we are all aware of, however for those heinous individuals in the Vatican the reforms have still not went far enough. There is more to do and for the Pope time is of the essence.

    Hence this vociferous attack on the true Catholic faith, the Mass etc etc.

    Like everyone else l pray for the souls of those clerics at all levels who are leading others through their errors etc. straight to Hell.

    Ave Maria!

    Every blessing

    Michael 🙏

    July 19, 2022 at 7:30 pm
    • Lily Reply


      I think your comment about Francis’s hostility to the TLM being “deeply rooted in a divergent view of priesthood etc” is tremendously insightful. It has to be that. No pope could just take a dislike to the TLM without there being something deeper at work, and that has to be a totally wrong-headed way of seeing the priest, liturgy and everything else, IMHO. In other words, he sees the Church as not being a supernatural body, the Body of Christ, but a human organisation to adapt to each generation, and re-form itself to suit up to date demands. It’s incredible that any pope would have such a skewed vision of the Church but that seems to be what he thinks, and it does amount to “a counterfeit Church” as you so rightly say.

      July 20, 2022 at 6:29 pm
      • Michael 🙏

        Thank you for your kind remarks
        Every blessing
        Michael 🙏

        July 21, 2022 at 11:55 pm
  • Francis de sales. Reply

    Editor, I would like to respond to your comments.

    1. My story along with 4 others plus girls with a disability gave our testimonies to Bishop of Dublin re a certain priest of a religious order. He was removed at Bishop request plus his order was removed from both schools in Dublin (boys and girls). It was shocking that we didn’t think that he would do it back then cos he’s a PRIEST at that. He and other priest of same order was eventually named in govt reports such as Ryan report. He was sent to Scotland after that. It was vindicated at last for us (5 boys at that time).

    2. Noted.

    3. Noted.

    4. Iet me say here I agree to disagree this.

    5. You have to respect other people experiences such as mine even if you don’t like it. There was a woman named Marion Carroll who was cured at knock mass ( it was NO mass). For ease of reference is here :


    6. I know now. But the point that I want to make was that priests don’t preach about this danger re new age therapies( certain ones more dangerous than others).

    Thats it.

    July 19, 2022 at 9:46 pm
    • Lily Reply

      Francis de Sales,

      I visited that link but there was nothing about the miracle – just the woman supposedly cured of MS talking about Christmas. I was interested because MS can come and go, and so she may have been in remission, thinking she was cured, so I’d need to read up more on that before I’d believe it was a properly tested and approved miracle, with all due respect.

      July 20, 2022 at 6:35 pm
      • Francis de sales.

        Lily, see here more details re her story at knock shrine where NO mass took place.

        Knock shrine doesn’t have TLM masses for very long time until one or 2 years ago when it was introduced in the old parish church but not the basilica Church itself.

        She was on a stretcher and suffering etc. I’m no medical expert as regards to remission.

        July 21, 2022 at 12:58 pm
  • Francis de sales. Reply

    Re Sodano :

    Sodano, who was accused of covering up the sexual misconduct of ex-cardinal and ex-priest Theodore McCarrick.

    Sodano was charged by Viganò with ignoring complaints sent to the Vatican about McCarrick, as well as appointing officials he believed would assist in covering up Maciel’s abuse.

    A link is here for your and other readers perusal.


    Info on cardinal Trujillo is here.

    Trujillo’s fund-raising successes with Colombia’s drug barons endeared him to the Vatican. But it was in his international campaign against birth control in defence of “the family” where he really made his mark.

    He ranged the world, especially visiting Thailand and the Philippines. Why there? Because the “rent boys” are cheap and plentiful.

    Trujillo had a particular taste for young sex workers. He violently raped them and then beat them up.

    An article in The New York Times reviewing Martel’s book suggests Trujillo “prowled the ranks of seminarians and young priests for men to seduce” and “routinely hired male prostitutes, sometimes beating them up after sex.

    Cardinal Baggio :

    He was a member of freemason order as he brought in or introduced freemason or homosexual bishops into Vatican curia important positions such as dicastry of bishops, office of CDF and the signora tribunal.

    New book by fr Charles Murr is out re info on Baggio and the issue of freemason or corrupt bishops.

    Info on Weakland :

    He covered up on Fr Murphy and abuses in school for deaf kids.

    Link is here.


    Weakland’s admission that he is, and has been since his teenage years, a homosexual, is yet another indication that homosexual liturgical revolutionaries were the driving force behind the demolition of the Roman Rite of the Mass. He was very anti TLM Bishop.

    Wiki on him (scroll down and look at retirement and scandal title).

    I was diagnosed as ptsd which arose from abuses in schools in Dublin. I’m fine now phew.

    It was sister mc kenna who spotted my spiritual problem at seminar as I was gobsmacked. She mentioned new age things as it needs to be sorted. I realised it hadn’t gone away until I had made a confession. She was correct all along as I couldn’t believe it. She was so sensitive to spiritual atmosphere.

    Editor: this thread is about the TLM and Francis’s hatred of it. The abuse scandals are not the topic here, so you’ve been cut a lot of slack but it ends here, please and thank you. Stick to the topic.

    July 19, 2022 at 11:36 pm
  • editor Reply

    N O T I C E . . .

    Please see my comment at the end of the Pro-Life thread…

    Thank you.

    July 20, 2022 at 12:01 pm
  • Josephine Reply

    I just found this video and I can’t believe this man is being serious. Even some of his followers in the comments are questioning his reasoning, which I think is absurd. He’s Irish – and sorry, but I kept thinking that he is the reason for the Irish jokes, LOL! I’m of Irish heritage myself, so don’t accuse me of racism! He’s blaming everyone and anyone for the crackdown on the Mass, but Pope Francis!

    July 20, 2022 at 1:32 pm
    • Francis de sales. Reply


      That guy is an ex seminarian of legionnaires of Christ order. He’s very pro TLM as I became aware of him and his videos in the last 12 months. He lives in the west of Ireland not very far knock as i know.

      He could be right, however I don’t think so cos PF went after one order after he became a Pope. Think it was Franciscan order of Mary immaculate, correct me if I’m wrong. Also I read somewhere that PF was anti TLM when he was then anarchbishop of buenos aires.

      Nice try by him re reasons for TC as I would suggest it has to do with Gallen mafia group, cos Roche(also a member) is promoted to a rank of cardinal where he’s in charge of that very same office where Bishop (also a freemason) bugini started off as the main architect of the NO mass back then in 1955.

      There is another thing I have been thinking of as I would say primarily, money. TLM groups have been doing well during Covid as they didn’t go bankrupt. They had loads of money in comparison to NO mass churches with dwindling numbers which in turn, less monies in church cash collection on Sundays. So in other words, they wanted to clamp it down re TLM and kind of divert or indirect forced to churchgoers of TLM to NO churches. Hey presto re diversion of money from TLM to NO mass- problem solved. But that’s not clear cut as we speak now. Cos the Vatican think of longer term 100 years.

      But that’s not the end of the story. Many variables or strands will comes into play such as building up a homosexual network inside the Vatican slowly over time. When that network is solidified (can’t be disrupted) then in the next step, they can move to dismantle TLM completely. That’s my line of thinking although I could be wrong there 100%..

      Please feel free to add ideas or suggestions and thanks.

      July 20, 2022 at 2:19 pm
  • Josephine Reply


    It can’t be money because I can’t imagine anyone returning to the novus ordo once they’ve been used to the TLM – chalk and cheese. It’s all part and parcel of the demonic attacks on the Church right now, the devil using Pope Francis as his tool, shocking to say.

    July 20, 2022 at 2:40 pm
    • Francis de sales. Reply

      Josephine, I agree with you re chalk and cheese (novus ordo and TLM).

      Whats noticeable was that PF is placing his people of Gallen mafia grouo into important various positions inside the Vatican. So that in future it would be carried out re PF’s wishes or implemention of PF future plans( already laid out in their minds) , which we do not know the full details in the flesh as we speak now. PF is speeding up his plans and decisions in haste. So something is fishy allright there.

      PF was anti TLM Bishop in buenos aires very long ago. I suspected him as a Marxist,probably a freemason cos freemason group in Italy were celebrating PF elevation to a Pope back in 2013.

      Their target(100 years) as I could hazard a guess is destruction of the TLM. Right now is they are diluting the faith by placement of gay friendly bishops or cardinals who don’t believe in [Our Lord] in various key positions. What they are doing is from top down approach as I realised they talked about money first before [Christ].

      Keep your faith irrespective of NO OR TLM. That’s the key

      July 20, 2022 at 3:12 pm
  • Francis de sales. Reply

    Realised that TLM isn’t a big deal here in Ireland as opposed to America. We have only 1 TLM mass where I live. It has been like that as TC decree hasn’t been affected cos bishop was content to let it continue. There is SSpx in our area but it’s bit far on the boundary line where rural County starts. They bought a disused protestant church and converted into SSpx one. But so far it’s low numbers cis people here preference is NO mass. That’s Ireland for ya. I don’t know anything about Scotland and its TLM except my visit to hampden Park re Celtic.

    July 21, 2022 at 12:46 pm
  • Theresa Rose Reply

    This is a discussion between John Henry Weston, Father Altman and Liz Yore about Pope Francis banning the Tridentine Mass. And, John Henry Weston poses the question will this Mass be banned by May 2023.


    July 28, 2022 at 6:36 pm

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