Supreme Court Rules Against SNP: No Second Referendum Without UK Permission – Ouch!editor
Nicola Sturgeon’s plan to hold an independence referendum next year has suffered a major set-back after judges ruled the Scottish Parliament does not have the required legal powers.
The Supreme Court in London issued its long-awaited ruling today after hearing arguments from lawyers representing Westminster and Holyrood last month.
Nicola Sturgeon ordered Scotland’s top law officer, the Lord Advocate, to refer the case to the top court in central London in a bid to break the constitutional log-jam.
But Lord Reed, the Supreme Court president, said today: “The Scottish Parliament does not have the power to legislate for a referendum on Scottish independence.”
Nicola Sturgeon is now expected to push ahead with her party’s “plan B’ and make the next general election a “de facto” referendum on independence. Continues…
What, if any, are the implications of this judgement which Catholics should take into account at the next General Election? Your thoughts…
Nicola Sturgeon is not a happy bunny – and she’s only offering one policy at the next General Election so, with any luck, she’ll be seen off then.
I saw her on a news broadcast earlier saying that the next General Election would be the de facto referendum on independence. I just hope the other parties offer goodies to encourage us to vote for them and that will see an end to this perpetual independence mantra.
Well, she made a point of saying the opposite before the last General Election – saying to vote for them and don’t worry it won’t be taken as a vote for independence. Now all we hear is that Scotland showed its support for independence at the last election by voting them in again. She is a very deceitful woman, and I think whatever happens at the next election, she’ll twist it to suit her own agenda, which is to stay in power for as long as possible, whatever it takes.
I absolutely agree with you. Sturgeon cannot be trusted one bit. She is an accomplished liar. It just astounds me that so many people don’t see right through her.
Ladies, ladies, ladies!
Let’s say she APPEARS to be a deceitful woman, APPEARS to be an accomplished liar…
Let’s not make any definitive judgments. That’ll make the General Judgement all the more fun. 😀
This is a gift for her because what else can she offer at the next General Election? Scotland is in a terrible state due to her policies on the NHS, education, everything. Every road is being dug up and there are diversions everywhere you travel, such a mess has been made in every government department by the SNP. I hope she does make independence her flagship policy because I don’t think it will get votes.
But all roads lead back to independence. When she is asked about the state of the Scottish institutions, she just blames Westminster! It would be different if we were independent, that’s her response.
Frankly, I think Westminster should spring a surprise, now that the Supreme Court has ruled. I think the UK Government should say OK, you can have a Section 30 referendum. On you go!
I do not believe for a second that she really wants one. I’ve had that sense for a long time now and it was reinforced seeing her speaking after the Supreme Court ruling today. So, I wish Sunak would agree to indyref2 – and let the fun begin!
I agree with your “spring a surprise” from Westminster. I think it’s a great idea. Talk about taking the wind out of her sails. And that is not at all intended to be a dig about the ferries scandal, although if it works, don’t knock it! 😀
This is a laugh!
That is hilarious! LOL!
My God I know that we as Catholics should not Hate so I use the words severely dislike.
Their are really only 2 Things that I Severely Dislike, and Sturgeons both of them.
What a really Horrible dislikeable Human Being she really is.
I do sympathise with you – she is so smug and so lacking in appreciation of what it is like to struggle to make ends meet, so lacking that in the throes of this cost-of-living crisis, with us getting massive energy bills, food prices soaring, strikes on the way etc, she is still rabbiting on about independence. Since she loves the EU so much, I wish she’d move over there to the continent. Anywhere, just leave Scotland before you totally destroy it, wummin!
I couldn’t agree more. She needs to give us a rest from the indyref2 lectures or move to one of her beloved EU countries.
“And now the end is near”… LOL! I sincerely hope so! Great video, thanks for posting. I haven’t laughed this much in a long time!
Here’s Ruth Davidson, former leader of the Scottish Conservative Party, hitting a nail on the head…
“No doubt the SNP will try to leverage this ruling for further grievance. If only the huge effort, capacity & resource spent bidding to rerun the original vote had been put into health, education & the economy.”
That’s it, in the proverbial nutshell. Brace yourselves, for an upsurge in anti-English sentiment, folks!
This makes me so angry, I can’t think straight. The country is falling to bits, nothing is as it should be, and she has wasted millions on referendum campaigns and court cases. She is anti-family, anit-working class, and anti-Scotland. She really is. This report says a lot of the things I’d like to say.
She has no idea how hard life is for ordinary people, that is crystal clear. The sooner she is out of office, the better.
She is definitely anti-family and as if her awful Named Person Scheme didn’t already prove that she then decided that four-year-olds could change gender without their parents knowing a thing about it! If I used the descriptions going round in my head about her right now, I’d be banned for life from this blog, so I will just repeat what I said earlier, that I don’t think she’ll win at the General Election ballot box, and hopefully that will see her off once and for all in Scottish politics.
I always find it very interesting that seemingly none of the contributors to this blog appear able to dissociate the question of Scottish independence from the political personality of Nicola Sturgeon, as if she was the only person in the land who was in favour of the re-establishment of the Scottish state. In fact it is close to half the population, and the majority of Scottish Catholics, who support that position.
I actually think the judgement of the Supreme Court yesterday brings independence closer, as it has exposed the fact that there is no democratic or constitional path to Scottish independence. What the court has ruled is that the the Westminster government (and by extension the English electorate) has a permanent veto on Scottish independence. Scottish elections are therefore in effect pointless, as the Scottish government is not legally competent to address the biggest question in Scottish political life.
I fear that it is only a matter of time before some individuals make the now seemingly rational calculation that if there is no peaceful means to Scottish independence, then they will have to pursue a violent route. The instant that begins the Union cannot prevail and is doomed. I think Unionists should be very, very, worried indeed. The only hope I can see for avoiding this outcome would be if the Unionist parties clealry set out in which precise circumstances they WOULD allow a referendum.
I would also add that Sturgeon’s plan to make the next Westminster election a “de-facto” referendum sounds very similar to Sinn Fein’s platform in the 1918 general election, which lead to war, and then independence, within four years.
Maybe the reason why we link the independence movement to Sturgeon is because she is the leader of that movement and has made a disaster of ruling Scotland. I don’t think for a second that life would be better under an independent Scottish government seeing the mess we are in after years of devolved government.
I don’t think either that “close to half the population” want independence, I just do not believe that, and if the majority of Scottish Catholics do, then that shows they’re as ignorant of politics as they are of their religion. Catholics who would vote for a government that allows kids of four to change gender, pretend they are a boy or girl when they’re the opposite, should not be using the word Catholic to describe themselves.
You have just proven the point made by Chris McLaughlin above, by conflating Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP and the independence movement. Perhaps you should read posts and understand them before commenting.
Those who support independence do not necessarily support the SNP or Sturgeon or her policies. In an independent Scotland, new parties would emerge and compete with the SNP for power.
Your comment about Catholics betrays your lack of understanding of the issues.
I agree 100%
This is a common trick of the nationalists – chide people for “conflating Nicola Sturgeon and the independence movement”.
To correct me, please tell me who else there is to identify with the nationalist movement? Who else is speaking about it on TV at every opportunity, calling press conferences about it every five minutes?
As for “new parties would emerge in an independent Scotland… ” Have you any idea how difficult it is to get a political party up and running? Sorry, but I’m not placing my faith in the possibility that new parties would emerge to squash the dictator Sturgeon, no way, sorry.
As for me not understanding the issues about Catholics voting for the SNP, please enlighten me. Please explain what the issues are that I don’t understand.
I don`t claim to know too much about their “de facto” referendums but not everyone who votes SNP wishes independence and yet Sturgeon seems to suggest that this is the case. Anyway, where are the people anywhere in Scotland that would be capable of running a country when most of them couldn`t run a tap You just need to look at how football in Scotland is run. Even Fergus McCann, who should actually have been offered a job by the Scottish establishment, stated that he had to leave the country to get on in life. This situation will never change in this country still stuck in the 19th century.
Any catholic voting for independence in this country would soon rue the day, unless they were only catholic by name. It`s not so long ago that a priest standing outside his church had over 26 different types of DNA spat on him, according to court evidence, while a battalion of police were within touching distance.
We are living in a country which can`t only not finish short route ferries (glorified rowing boats) but are losing similar contracts to Turkey. They had to build a new road bridge over the Forth simply because the existing, virtually new, one was falling down.
I worked for many years in the Building and Civil Engineering Industry both as an employee and a contractor and experienced total corruption and open favouritism for and to people of a certain inclination that I never experienced in England.
Even now, when I see the state of the infrastructure, I have to laugh when I hear their “excuses” regarding the shortage of cash. To take only one example, I live in an area where wind turbines of over 40 metres long pass my house in the early morning. A few bad corners have to be re-aligned to make this happen. I would consider these jobs to be minor and yet there are more heavy plant and machinery on these jobs than on many a long motorway project I worked on. When you write to those in charge for freedom of information, you don`t get an answer. No wonder our electricity bills are so high.
I won`t go into any detail about what I myself had to endure as a (catholic) contractor competing against them in this “lovely wee friendly country” called Scotland.
I won`t describe exactly where I would wish them to stick their independence but any so-called catholic who voted for it would need dipped and sheared like a normal sheep.
The so called Supreme Court has been a bone of contention since it was set up. Given that there are different legal systems within the UK it was regarded as riddiculous for one court to rule on things. The name was also a sore point. It was pointed out that another name would have to be used as Scotland has had a Supreme Court for centuries, but this was ignored and Scotland’s traditions trod on. It should aso have had an equal number of judges from each of the four countries, but instead is top heavy with English judges. In Scotland soveriegnty rests with the people and this is enshrined in the Declaration of Arbroath, reiterated in the 1689 Claim of Right and acknowledged by the Treaty of Union. The union is suppoed to be a voluntary union of equals but when one country tries to dictate to the other what it can or cannot do, then it ceases to be voluntary. It is also hypocritical of Westminster to say that Scotland can’t have a referendum when Northern Ireland has been told that it can have a referendum every seven years to determine it’s future. Of course Westminster would probably be glad to get rid of Northern Ireland but is desperate to hold on the Scotland because, as the former Chancellor of the Exchequer, Denis Healey, said in 2013 “Westminster was terrified at the prospect of Scottish independence because they know that without Scotland’s wealth they will struggle to balance the books.”
The Supreme Court didn’t invite Sturgeon to contact them – she chose to do that, and she must have known fine well what the answer would be since it was already set out in the devolution deal. She’s stirring up anti-English sentiment again and judging by your comment, she’s played a blinder.
It is a nonsense to speak about this “voluntary union” and it’s not voluntary/partnership if one nation “dictates” to another – all of that is deliberately designed to inflame shallow emotionalism of the kind that keeps the nationalist movement going. Nicola Sturgeon knows that her days are numbered. Even her own MSPs have shown signs of being fed up with her and want her gone.
But here’s a truly damning report card on her ability (non-ability) to learn, from one of her own law professors. She’s shot herself in the foot by putting the nonsensical case before the Supreme Court when the answer was obvious, and then stamping her foot like a spoilt child when the only possible ruling was made. Apparently, she wasn’t paying attention in lectures about the meaning of democracy, LOL!
BTW, I don’t think I’d put too much faith in anything which the Labour/Socialist Denis Healey said – his Party made a total mess of handling the UK finances when they were in power. I heard the figures recently and it was the opposite way round – WE couldn’t manage without being financially supported by Westminster.
There is nothing anti English in what I said and there are many English members of the SNP who obviously don’t believe that it’s anti English. The money Scotland recieves from Westminster is only some of it’s own moey coming back. Government statistics going back to 1900 show that every year Scotland has contributed more to the Treasury than it receives. In the 20 years from 1999 to 2018 Scotland contributed (not counting oil revenues) £895,240,000,000 and received back (Barnett Formula) £511,499,799,000 leaving £383,740,201,000 at Westminster.
The former Governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney, let it slip in an interview that Scotland’s assets are in excess of a £1 Trillion. By the way, it was not Nicola Sturgeon who decided to contact the Supreme Court, it was Dorothy Bain KC, the Lord Advocate, who took the decision to contact them.
I’m not going to bandy figures around, that’s not my scene. Since you obviously are good with the money side, could you answer this question, would Scotland be paying less money into the EU if the SNP get their way and we re-join? I genuinely don’t know the answer so I would be interested in your reply to that.
About the Lord Advocate taking the Supreme Court decision – can she do things like that without Sturgeon’s approval? Again, I don’t know so would be glad to find out.
You seem to be very much on the defensive about the SNP, independence movement, Nicola Sturgeon etc., so, don’t take offence, but I think you picked the right avatar – not a lap-dog, but a nice cuddly pussy cat! Sorry! Couldn’t resist, LOL! It’s a lovely avatar, honestly! I’m being bad – editor will delete this, wait and see!
No! I won’t delete – it’s a bit of fun… and it IS a lovely avatar. Whether appropriate or not is another question. Requires thought. Thus, I will not comment at this time 😀
You are wrong about the Lord Advocate being the decider about the Supreme Court case. She did NOT want to do that.
Nicola Sturgeon has spent over £260,000 of taxpayers’ cash fighting failed Supreme Court cases against the UK Government. Sources have confirmed that the legal bill for the First Minister’s doomed battle to hold a second independence referendum without the consent of Westminster will top £130,000.
She pursued the case despite the fact her Lord Advocate Dorothy Bain said at the outset of the case she did not have the necessary degree of confidence that a referendum would be legal. Bain then agreed to make a referral to the Supreme Court to give a ruling on the issue after being asked to do so by Sturgeon.
So, if you could be so wrong about that, I’m not too sure about the rest of your claims. I am not into figures either, like Bernie, but I have a strong feeling that we could not survive without the money we get from Westminster.
This is an interesting commentary on the Supreme Court ruling:
Britain’s leading judges have “demolished” the notion that Scots are an “oppressed” people or that Scotland is comparable to a “colony” being subjected to British rule against its will.
The ruling, delivered by the Supreme Court’s Scottish president Lord Reed, ended a debate which has rumbled on for 25 years
The claims – often deployed by more extreme factions within the independence movement – were given legitimacy by the SNP’s submission to the Supreme Court which sought to compare Scotland to Kosovo and invoke international rights to self-determination.
But in a 35-page ruling, delivered on Wednesday morning by the court’s Scottish president Lord Reed, the arguments were decisively dismissed along with the claim that Holyrood could legally hold its own “advisory” referendum, ending a debate which has rumbled on for a quarter of a century.
Donald Cameron, constitution spokesman for the Scottish Tories, said: “The Supreme Court could not have been clearer in its total dismissal of the SNP’s absurd claim that Scotland is some kind of oppressed colony.
“The nationalists’ attempt to draw parallels between Scotland and Kosovo was crass, tasteless and offensive. It was rightly, and comprehensively, demolished by Lord Reed.” Continues…
It’s a very clever strategy, isn’t it. Stoke up the (fake) nationalism to keep the plebs feeling aggrieved at those English tyrants. Disgraceful.
And by the way, and for the record, coming from an Irish family background, raised within the hearing of plenty of Irish rebel songs, my personal instinct leans naturally in the direction of the right of every country to self-determination. However, Hell will have frozen over with skaters enjoying the fun before I ever vote for Scottish independence. Taking into account the geography and history, Scotland is in a totally different position from the six counties in the north of Ireland. Totally different. And now that the Catholic Church in Ireland has gone the way of the rest of the secular world, I wouldn’t be singing a rebel song, even in the car, these days.
Let’s leave well alone and concentrate on getting to Heaven, albeit no the noo… Explanation: a primary school teacher friend of mine told me about an incident in one of her lessons some years ago, when she was speaking about the joys of Heaven and asked the class to put up their hands if they would like to go to Heaven. One small boy stood out because he did not raise his hand. His friend was heard saying, in hoarse whisper in broad Glaswegian slang: “Put yer haun up, it’s no the noo.”
(Tr: Put your hand up, it’s not right now.)
I agree it’s fake nationalism. True nationalism is about loving your own country, not about hating any other country. In my experience, there is anti-English racism in the SNP, it stands out a mile.
I also think Sturgeon is going to use this Supreme Court ruling to use the General Election as a voting strategy, vote for us or you are really voting for the big bad English. I think that’s her game.
The only chink of light is that the most recent polls in Scotland show a surge in support for Labour, so if that keeps up, the SNP will suffer at the polls.
As for Catholics voting SNP – I have no words. It is the most anti-family political party there is.
Hello. I would like to ask, and I feel bad doing it because I understand that it may bother, for a bishop that I do not know if he will be known or not on this page and he is Bishop Jabalé, who was Bishop of Menevia. In my country it has a good reputation but I don’t know if in your country they will have the same opinion. If the publisher allows me, of course. I would like to think that the whole hierarchy is not rotten. Thanks.
I know you have a particular interest in the hierarchies of various countries, but I would be grateful if you would not ask questions that are off the topic of each thread. We have a General Discussion thread which you can access at the foot of the Home page, next to the Pro-Life thread.
I think I can safely say that none of us here is likely to be able to help you with foreign bishops. I do not know anything about Bishop Jabale.
In future, though, if you do wish to ask about any bishop or anything unrelated to the topic under discussion, in this case Scottish independence, please do so on the General Discussion thread.
If, by any chance, anyone knows about the bishop Jabale, please say so on the General Discussion thread. Marcet will find it there.
This comment has been moved to the General Discussion thread. If bloggers go to the Home page and scroll to the end, they will see the General Discussion thread there right under “Read more”. Just click on General Discussion or on “comments” to get onto the page. I’ve copied the link for ease of reference.
This is an answer to the Spanish blogger who asked about a Bishop Jabale. I’ll repost the comment on the GD thread – Editor.
We will cut the bottoms of the (fire) doors in all classrooms to save the children by causing air flow. Oh no you won’t said the Fire Chief that would be illegal! (and actually dangerous).
Please God this dreadful politician is removed at the next elections to the Holyrood gathering.
There was never any proposal to cut the bottom off doors. That was a “joke” by Douglas Ross that was then attributed to Nicola Sturgeon by Tory bloggers.
Not so fast! It’s true that she passed of the proposal as coming from the local authorities, but she didn’t denounce it, quite the opposite She defended it.
Even the UN says Sturgeon’s gender reforms are dangerous
She just closes her ears, won’t listen to anyone.
These letters, published in the Edinburgh Evening News, are very interesting.
I’ve often thought the same about the SNP MPs – they do nothing. I was once asked by a CT reader to accompany her to a meeting with her MP (SNP) about a dispute over her family’s benefits. To my amazement, he listened politely and then said he’d need to get back to her because he didn’t know anything about benefits. Incredible. Given that there can be no doubt that there would be plenty of his constituents on benefits, I would have expected him to use his time educating himself on that, and other subjects relevant to the lives of the people he is supposed to represent.
The SNP MPS know that they are onto a good thing. Some of them stand up during Prime Ministers Questions every Wednesday and bleat on about independence. That is their only interest. They are raking in the dollars and doing nothing in return. If they had any integrity, they would refuse to take their seats – or pay/pensions – in Westminster and use that to underline their belief in independence. But will they? No chance.
What you say about SNP politicians is correct. I once contacted my MSP (SNP) and it was very clear that she was absolutely dumbfounded by the idea that one of her constituents might contact her about some matter. Absolutely struck dumb.
It related to my dissatisfaction with the local Council and she could not grasp that I wanted her help on the matter. She just kept trying to refer me back to the council (i.e do nothing and get rid of me).
I think these people think their role is to parade around with flags and constantly decry “the pure tooaareez”.
The ruling was inevitable and Sturgeon knew what the outcome would be all along.
That the constitution is reserved to Westminster is a basic founding fact of Scottish devolution and so all the court has really done is read out the limits of Holyrood’s power, as established some 23 years ago.
And so the ruling is not a new development, the claim that it is – like the charade of going to court in the first place – is simply a Sturgeon device to fool her ever gullible followers and buy herself more time in power at the trough of public money.
The “Yes” movement becomes ever more aggressive and spiteful, as it is acutely aware of its own incompetence and fundamental inability to make a worthwhile case for Scottish independence.
I’ve just stumbled across this clip and thought I’d share it here… Andrew Neil (I’m no fan of his) giving Ms Sturgeon quite a grilling…