The Christian Attitude to Friendship: Is It Wrong – Or Simply Prudent – To Identify “Frenenemies”?
Editor writes…
The common theme running through various articles and videos on the subject of friendship, is the need to remove people from our lives who are not helpful – “toxic” people who are not bringing out the best in us. That sort of thing. In this, Jordan Peterson is no different from other commentators.
But is this the sort of advice which we, as Catholics, should be following? Indeed, I know of people who consider themselves to be “good Catholics” (not a judgment any of us should make about ourselves) yet who speak the language of “psychology” when it comes to separating the sheep from the goats in their circle of acquaintances and friends.
Should we treat those we regard as “friends” differently from those whom we regard, really, as “enemies” – “frenemies” to use the modern label. Or should we reflect, instead, the teaching of Christ about loving our enemies and doing good to those who persecute us? How can this be done? Your personal experiences/dilemmas might help others to deal with problems in friendships, so, without naming anyone (please and thank you) feel free to share your thoughts on this important subject.
“…Go on then, encouraging one another, and building up one another’s faith… See to it that nobody repays injury with injury; you must aim always at what is best for one another and for all around you.”
(1 Thessalonians: 5: 11; 15).
Comments (154)
Well, oddly enough, I’ve just been thinking about how to tell a real friend from an enemy, so this will make an interesting read for me, the comments from other bloggers.
I have “friend” who makes out that she is interested in me and my family but I can’t help feeling that she asks how we are all getting on in the hope of hearing that we’ve failed in some way, so I’m becoming wary when she strikes up a conversation (usually by phone as we live at a distance). I am finding I get impatient at times but not sure if it’s the Christian thing to do to just stop keeping in touch. I’d welcome the opinions of others on this.
Lily,
If I may ask, what makes you think that she isn’t a genuine friend, and that she might hope to hear you have failed in some way? Is there some concrete reason – a specific incident – or is it just gut feeling?
WF,
It’s difficult to pin down but it’s more than a gut feeling. In general I notice that when she asks about my kids it’s always along the lines of couldn’t they do this or that better, what they are doing is never good enough – that is the sense I am getting from what she says. Then when I ask about her kids, everything in the garden is rosy with them. I could be imagining it but I know she tends to gossip about other people so I can’t help wondering if I’m getting it in the neck as well, LOL! The more I think of it the more I think I need to control the conversation better so that I’m not giving too much information away about my family. She’s been a good friend to me for a long time so I don’t want to lose touch with her but I have been thinking of keeping her at arm’s length for a bit.
Lily,
Yes, it seems like a more managed approach in your conversations might be the answer. When you feel the conversation is going the wrong way, gently steer it back into safer waters. As your relationship only seems to be by phone now – it’s not like she lives next door – I think it’s worth making the effort to try and keep in touch if you can. The fact she phones must mean something. If she really disliked you, chances are she wouldn’t contact you. And take with a pinch of salt that everything in her life is rosy. People often say that when the opposite is true. Do you think I’d make a good ‘Agony Uncle’? 😀
WF
Thanks for that – yes, I definitely think you’d make a good Agony Uncle but I hope you won’t charge as much as Athanasius (£100 to have him as a friend, LOL!)
Westminsterfly,
I think that you would make a good agony uncle. There is an empathy which very often shines through your posts.
Lily
Okay, how does ten bob and a pickled egg sound?
Goodness, no-one’s ever had me down as being empathetic before. Don’t worry, you’ll get to know me better. Anyway, after that accolade, there’s only one option. As soon as CT closes, I’m opening the WestminsterFly Agony Uncle blog 😀 AND I’m not as exorbitant as Athanasius.
Athanasius,
Sounds great, ten bob and a pickled egg, is just great, LOL!
It’s a difficult one this. I did mention once in confession that a person I used to work with really brought out the worst in me. I mean seriously. I just couldn’t bear to be in the same room as him. I am sure he felt the same way about me. There were no rows, or scenes of any kind, but we just seemed to have a severe aversion to each other, and I dealt with it by limiting contact / conversation to the absolute bare necessities, while remaining polite and non-confrontational – even if I felt that subtle goading was taking place. The priest explained that due to fallen human nature, it is inevitable that we are not always going to like everyone we encounter – indeed, we might even take an extreme dislike to someone, sometimes for a specific reason, sometimes for no reason at all other than a clash of personality. He said to put feelings and emotions aside. He said I was under no obligation to feign friendship, and that as long as I willed him no harm – or did no harm to him, and prayed for him, and tried to be as courteous as possible, then sometimes that’s the best that can be hoped for, and I would not be committing any sin.
I haven’t seen the Jordan Peterson video, but I know there is this modern tendency to use other people like some kind of therapy – i.e. they are either helpful or unhelpful to you. This is just self-centred. But, if he is referring to removing dangerous people from your lives – i.e. those with sociopathic tendencies who can cause severe damage – then personally, I don’t have an issue with that.
Also, Scripture gives us precedents, that after taking certain actions, it is sad but sometimes necessary to cast certain people away, or not waste any more time on them:
Matthew 18: 15-17 “But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.”
Matthew 10:14 “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet.”
Westminsterfly,
Your post reminds me that forgiveness is an essential lubricant in human interaction, and how difficult it can be to put into action. I remember hearing a homily in the wake of Amoris Laetitia in which a courageous young priest said that he felt that Pope Francis’ seeming openness to admitting the divorced and re-married to Holy Communion was a diversion from the real problem. Marriages, he said, do not fail because of access to Holy Communion, but because people are all too often incapable of forgiving each other.
Leitourgos
And also marriages fail because of lack of solid marriage preparation, and if a marriage hits the rocks, virtually no Catholic help for those who need it. I was once asked to help find an agency for a friend whose marriage was in deep trouble. Marriage Care (formerly Catholic Marriage Care) was Catholic at one time, but I was told it’s not anymore, and I am open to correction on this, but I was told they give counselling to non-married partners and also same-sex couples. Perhaps someone can confirm/deny that. The organisation Retrouvaille was recommended https://www.retrouvaille.org.uk but I don’t know anything about it, so it would need to be researched. Sadly by the time I got this information to my friend, the rift had gone too far.
WF,
Your post is really helpful to me especially that quote from Matthew’s gospel at the end. My problem is that if I did that in my situation, my friend would be outraged and I don’t want to cause her unnecessary suffering. I’m trying to take the road of the saints to put up with her comments which I think are based in snobbery. She is a bit of a Hyacinth Bouquet LOL!
Westminsterfly,
Excuse my abysmal ignorance, but what exactly is an “Agony Uncle” ?
Margaret 🇺🇲
Margaret USA,
Since WF just might still be enjoying some
much neededbeauty sleep, I’ll answer that one.Some media outlets have what they call an “Agony Aunt” – a woman “expert” – to answer readers’ questions or questions or dilemmas in their lives usually regarding what are euphemistically called “relationships” today. When you read/listen to their advice, they are really nothing more than enablers encouraging people to live in their various diverse “relationships” or leave one to begin another. Gimme a break.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jun/20/meet-philippa-perry-the-observers-new-agony-aunt-every-email-will-help-me
WF is suggesting that he could take on that role but since he’s feeling perfectly comfortable in the body given to him by God, he’s not thinking of identifying as a woman, so the next best thing is to change the title of the coveted role to identify as an agony uncle instead of an aunt. You couldn’t make it up. But, before you ask, no, he’s not being serious – he’s joking. 😀
Margaret USA,
I don’t need beauty sleep, I’m stunningly handsome just as I am. Here’s a picture of me and Editor to prove it: https://www.contrarylife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/gurners_alex___anne_woods.jpg
Westminsterfly
Yes, the beauty is blinding! Now I know what Lez Dawson was referring to when he spoke of having a face like a bag of spanners.
Athanasius,
Thank you very much for the compliment. Yes, I know what you mean about ‘bag of spanners’ – it’s not the best picture of Editor I’ve ever seen. (I know, I know, ‘GK’ and moderation on its way . . . ) but after the day I’ve had, even a ‘GK’ and moderation would be like a stroll in the park! (Don’t ask)!
Westminsterfly
I get a lot of days like that myself, days of stress, and there’s always a kindly soul somewhere to remind me that I should “offer it up”. If I’m truthful, at those times I feel more like offering them up. Such is our weak and fallen human nature. I hope your day, what’s left of it, vastly improves.
Thank you Ath,
I know EXACTLY what you mean about the ‘offer it up’ advice and I appreciate your honesty about your feelings, because I’ve sometimes felt like that as well, when I’ve been given that advice, no matter how well meaning. We all have bad days. As I just said to Editor in an email, stiff drink and an early night. I’ll be fine tomorrow. Deo volente.
Westminsterfly
Alchohol, even in small amounts, really hits me hard, so I content myself with the kick from a strong wine gum! I remember a former District Superior of the SSPX calling whiskey “the water of life”! It was his custom, in moderation of course, to unwind after a stressful day with a wee goldie (minus the crime of added water)! It’s a better way to sleep well than any amount of sleeping tablets.
One thing I have learned to be careful about over the years is the instant dislikes that one can take to strangers. I heard a talk once in which the speaker–an Orthodox priest–said that he thought that such instant dislikes came from the Devil. On the other hand, I have (although I say it myself) pretty good intuition, and I wish I had followed it more in my life in regard to friends (and much else, I might add). I suppose that it all comes down to the discernment of spirits.
The Gospel tells us to love God and neighbour, the latter including friends and enemies. Thus the elimination of I ‘frenemies’ clashes with the most basic tenets of our faith.
That our love should be as far as possible all-embracing is, in my opinion, one of the reasons, why Western Catholics have traditionally set great store by the territorial parish, encouraging people to worship and socialise in their parish of reference in what is, after all, the basic unit, after the family, of Christian existence. Protestants, on the other hand, have been more flexible on this, especially in urban contexts, choosing the parish which most suits their likes and dislikes. (In recent decades, it has to be said, Catholics have began to follow Protestant brethren in this as mobility has increased and the duration of tenure of parish priests much diminished, but the reception of the sacraments of Christian initiation still requires an interaction with the territorial parish of reference, even if it is just in order to get permission to receive the sacraments in another parish.)
Too often we forget that the Hebrew meaning of our word ‘church’ is ‘convocation’. The initiative of calling us together is not ours, but belongs to God. In a given parish, you will have people of different socio-economic circumstances, people of greater or lesser intelligence, a spectrum of ages, and so on. Only in an environment as varied as this can one really learn to love, for if we only those whom we like, is that not just another form of love of self?
The elimination of those who challenge is in some way, even if it is only testing our patience, is a very negative thing, akin, in a way, to ethnic cleansing. If people are not challenged, they will not grow. Growth requires the cut and thrust of human interaction, something which used to take place in classrooms and playgrounds throughout the Kingdom until we began wrapping children in cotton wool and pandering to their every whim (often because of guilty consciences arising out of divorce). My grandmother’s oft voiced command to ‘get out and play’ was not primarily an injunction to engage in physical exercise. It was far more about engaging with other people and so learning what human life is about in all of its dimensions.
We are all destined to eternity. Better to learn the art of Christian social interaction here than in Purgatory. In this, the Spiritual Works of Mercy are a very useful guide.
Leitourgos,
“Thus the elimination of ‘frenemies’ clashes with the most basic tenets of our faith.”
That’s exactly what I think as well. All these psychology ideas are very much rooted in the “me, me, me” mentality. The idea of suffering the faults of others, seems to be out of the question, and even Catholics go along with this selfish attitude.
I’m still at the thinking stage with this thread but thought I would thrown in that tuppence worth when your comment hit me between the eyes.
Josephine,
It seems to me that psychology is one of the least exact sciences out there. What you get out seems to depend pretty much on what you put in, if you see what I mean.
Josephine
Quite right! Friendship, like marriage, involves a bit of give and take as well as patience when one or other party may be a bit out of sorts. Marriage is harder because you can’t escape the situation when it’s not quite so pleasant, which is why I’m a single man, dominated only by a cat I refer to as Chairman Meow.
Leitourgos, I have often thought, that during the plandemic those people who (when it was not forbidden) to attend Sunday .ass were the fortunate ones as they were getting some social interaction. As John Donne said “No man is an island entire of itself”.
Oh dear, <>
Well apologies for my fat fingers.
This should of said..(when it was not forbidden) were inclined to attend Sunday Mass were the fortunate ones as they were getting some social interaction as well as Divine Intervention.
I haven’t watched the Jordan Peterson video, which is probably based on general human social interaction, but I can say something from experience.
In our lives I think it fair to say that we may only have one or two true friends. We may have many friendly acquaintances, but only a very small number of real friends. The best way to know a true friend is when we are in trouble. Do they stick by us, assuming we’re in the right, or do they merely sympathise, offer a few hollow words of comfort and move on. It’s in times of trouble we get to know who are real friends are. How many are prepared to get into the trenches with us!
Of course, Our Lord, Our Lady and the saints are always our dear friends, so we’re never alone, but from a human perspective it is always comforting to know that when the odds are stacked against us there’s someone there to stand by our side. That’s a true friend.
It’s one of the saddest observations of these times that priests, who should be reliable friends to all, like Our Saviour, are often the most treacherous. That’s not to say all priests are like this, for I can count a number of good and holy priests in my life who are the dearest of friends. But generally speaking, the priests who closed the churches during the COVID lockdowns, the priests who tell you not to worry about Hell because God is too merciful to send you there, the priests who introduce novelty into the worship of God, the priests who don’t hear confessions often and who neglect the sick and dying, the priests who undermine the Real Presence of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, etc. These are smiling assassins who should be avoided at all costs.
It’s one thing having acquaintances who abandon us in our time of human need, but quite another to have our immortal souls endangered by bad and/or negligent priests. This latter type of false friend is by far the worst manifestation of evil in our lives.
Then there are those priests who hide their pride, arrogance and vengeful spirit behind a mask of piety and fraternal correction. These are worse murderers of souls than the more obvious hippie priests because they have no conscience whatever when it comes to depriving souls of their life’s blood, the Mass and the Sacraments. We witnessed such an outrage when churches were closed during lockdown, but there are other instances which are best not spoken of. We may conclude that such priests are no friends of our souls, but much worse than that is they are no true friends of our Divine Master, the Good Shepherd.
If we lived in a time of good and holy priests in every parish then we would scare need to worry about human friendship. As things stand, however, this rock of stability has been largely removed from our lives and it is very difficult not to feel great resentment towards those responsible. Still, if we are true friends of Our Lord, we must pray for such destructive priests as charity demands.
And on that note, I’m your friend if you need one. The price is £100 per week!!!
Athanasius,
LOL! Great post from you which I find very helpful. If I could afford it, you’d be my best friend, LOL!
On a serious note, I do agree with you that we are lucky if we have one or two true friends. I’m not sure that I have as many, but I thank God for my family.
Lily
You can’t go far wrong with a good family, that’s for sure. There’s a loyalty in families, by which I mean good loving families, that we never find anywhere else.
Cheap at the price!
Leitourgos
Imagine the advertising logo – “cheap friend for hire”. Doesn’t quite have that ring to it somehow!
Athanasius as to your comment on a Friend being prepared to go into the Trenches with you is o so True.
In my own life experience ,if you have ONE good Friend when your in the Pig Pen your not only lucky you have hit the Jackpot.
This is explained greatly in The Prodigal Son. He had spent all of His Money and was desolate something I can identify with.
One thing though that I and probably others on here cannot go is an ungrate . Someone whom you really go out of your way to pull out of the Pig Pen . They Get back on their feet and completely ignore you.
This happened to me and it taught me a great lesson.
Never put your trust in Mammon,not always but mostly they will let you down.
FOOF
Well, you’re in good company. Just look at the way Our Lord was treated. I suppose even we treat Him with ingratitude more often than we would care to admit. The difference with Our Lord is that He is always so willing to lavish even more riches on us after we have squandered what He gave us before. Now that’s what I call a true friend!
Yes that is what is called a True Friend you are so correct. When all others forsake us even Family ( and sometimes rightly so ) He never will. He has kept His promise.
Athanasius,
It’s interesting that you mention “ingratitude” because a friend who has been reading this thread said that she often thinks about the “old fashioned” ways, when people would show gratitude for things as a matter of routine but now it’s rare, and maybe takes the form of a “Thank you” card in the post rather than a few kind words of gratitude in person at the time. Of course, some people do both and that reveals their gratitude as sincere. Overall, though, people don’t show gratitude in the way they did in days of yore, and instead have a sense of entitlement. The world owes them a living.
A few people, too, yourself included, have identified the mark of a “true” friend as being one who stands by us in times of trouble. Without going into detail (please don’t, folks!) I have recently had some surprises through to shocks in my own situation with a couple of priests, to discover those who are real friends as opposed to those who are either previously unknown enemies or, almost worse, those who wish to keep a foot in both camps. That is, those who use the words that make them seem supportive of me – I really think the priests shouldn’t have done that followed up by …But I respect their right to do so!
Let’s hope such forked tongues never need my support in any similar situation – or I just might find myself repeating those other mantras: “Well, they haven’t done me any harm…” or I don’t want to get involved… aka the priest and the Levite in the Parable of the Good Samaritan.
Those and other condoning remarks have provided me with lots of food for thought, and I have been nourished by the number of reflections and meditations from spiritual reading sources which confirm my considered opinion that such sentiments are incompatible with our Christian duty in so many respects.
So, I agree with those who say that it’s when we are in some sort of trouble – especially when we “star” in a controversy – that we know who to count on, as true friends.
It’s a lesson I’ve learnt more than once and one I do not allow myself to forget. I’ll still chat, I’ll still wave, I’ll still smile at those “friends” but once I know “who’s who” I don’t forget it. And I’m then into “love your enemy” territory, no excuses!”
Editor
Signs of the times, I’m afraid! We live in an era in which many Catholics, even some who attend the Traditional Mass, do not have a clue about the old faith, parish life or the limits of clerical authority.
You would think that after 6 decades of clerical destruction of the faith, Catholics would have learned by now to measure every word and action of priests against the traditional teaching of the Church and historical precedent. Talk about wilfull blindness!
Let me just say, regarding your own situation, that I have recently read the life of the Cure of Ars, Patron of parish priests, and I can declare with certainty that what was done to you would not have happened under his pastoral care. This saintly priest was all about drawing souls to Mass and to Our Lord. In fact, he often inflicted upon his own body the heavy penances due to others to win the grace of their conversion. This is the difference between a saintly priest and a proud, self-serving one.
One interesting nugget of wisdom I picked up from reading the life of the Cure of Ars, which I think is pertinent here, was his admonition that humility is like the chain holding all the other virtues together, just as the chain of the rosary holds the beads together. If humility is lost then all the other virtues are lost too.
Fear not, I have placed my confidence in the holy Cure of Ars and the great St. Joseph. Justice will soon be served and the evil redressed.
Editor,
I couldn’t agree more about the problem of ingratitude. It just isn’t inculcated in the young these days by their parents and I suspect this has largely been the case for a couple of generations or so. I remember a friend telling me that he sent money to his nieces/nephews – (who are not toddlers, so old enough to know better) for their birthdays/Christmas, and he would seldom, if ever, receive a response of any kind. Appalling.
A friend has emailed the following information to me today – seems a very large number of young people in the 17-20 age group have booked for this year’s pilgrimage to Chartres, which is more or less full up now. https://www.nd-chretiente.com/chartres-2023/inscription-au-pelerinage-de-chartres/
That’s the kind of friends we should all value – those who send us edifying messages!
Confirmed here – completely full up! https://gloria.tv/post/zfd9PQ7texRq3GuJT6sv8KJPm
I always find that it is in times of trouble that you find out who your real friends are, and this is especially when you are in some kind of situation when most people think you are in the wrong. That’s when I have found out who my true friends are. Once in a work situation when I was under threat of being fired for speaking out about something, that’s when my “frenemies” showed their true colours. I’ll never forget it which I suppose some will think is sinful, but that’s how I am feeling about it even a few years after the event.
Laura we are only Human and whether we like it or not God has given us Marvellous Brains
even me.
Our Brains never forget the Good but unfortunately they never forget the Bad either.
It is a truly wonderful thing when a Human Being can completely forgive.
But forgiveness is not a feeling as many people believe so. As a very wise Man said to me lots of years ago. Forgiveness is a
Decision.
I agree completely with Athanasius. The best litmus test for a true friendship is the reaction of friends when times are tough.
I had a stoke on Tuesday. It was minor, but I spent two days in hospital. Some people I had previously regarded as friends, have not been in touch, or have simply, sent big standard messages once and haven’t bothered to follow it up.
On the flip side, I was extremely touched when two or three friends displayed true friendship by their kindness and concern.
Petrus
I had no idea you had suffered a TIA. I hope it’s a one off and you’re well on the mend. A colleague of mine suffered a similar cardiovascular event some months ago, caused by high blood pressure. He was left with some paralysis for a while but is now fully recovered with blood pressure under control. I always urge people to purchase a blood pressure device because high blood pressure is called the silent killer and even affects some youngsters.
I’ll remember you in my prayers to the great St. Joseph.
Athanasius,
I meant to say in my original post that no one on the blog knew so I wasn’t referring to anyone here. Many thanks for giving me that opportunity.
I have slight paralysis in my left arm and a slight droop in my mouth. Apart from that I’m fine. Mine was caused by multiple factors, mainly the thickness of my blood. So, I now have a whole host of tablets to take. It’s worth it if it prevents another one.
Many thanks for the prayers!
Petrus
Prayers assured. Saint Janarius (also known as ‘Gennaro’) is the Patron Saint of Blood Disorders.
Athanasius I to see this as a Friendship Blog also and shall certainly miss it when it closes down. As the Old Saying goes .
We are Not Strangers just Friends who haven’t met Yet.
Petrus God watch over you and help you back to full Health.
Petrus,
That’s awful. What a worry for your family and you. Did the priest come with the Last Sacraments? That would have been a comfort, in the worst case scenario which, thank God, did not come to be.
Josephine,
No. I wasn’t anywhere near danger of death. A priest asked to be kept informed but anointing really wasn’t required.
Gosh, if I took a stroke, even a slight one, I think I’d want the Last Rights.
Petrus,
I’ve just said three Hail Mary’s for the restoration of your health, and I will continue to pray for you!
RCA Victor,
I very much appreciate the prayers and comment. A simple blog comment can go a long way to making someone feel better. I think most charitable people would do that. Thanks again.
Deeply sorry to hear about your TMA, Petrus. I will pray to Our Lady for you and your family before I go to bed.
Many thanks – another kind blogger!
Petrus,
Apologies for not adding my sympathy and concern to the rest sooner – as usual I’m trying to do a dozen things at once, and getting nowhere fast! I hope, sincerely, that you are on the mend now.
Editor,
That is another extremely kind message. Many thanks.
Petrus
One of the blood-thinning drugs you’re likely to be offered is Clopidogril. This is a new generation drug that seems to be quite controversial in terms of side effects. If you have been given this then ask your doctor to consider instead the older generation drug called Dipyridamole. It’s a far safer and equally efficient blood thinner. The only downside is if you’re taking it long term then you will have to ask for a complimentary drug called Omeprazole to keep the stomach happy. Dipyridamole used ober a long period can cause serious gastrointestinal upset. Also, if using aspirin every day make sure it’s gastro-resistant aspirin, not the usual dispersible stuff.
Petrus, so sorry to hear this news especially as you have a young family. I’m sure they will soon sort you out anticoagulant wise. I’ve been on edoxiban for some years without problem but they will know the right one for you. I will keep you in my prayers for a complete recovery, it must have been a very worrying time.
Thank you, Elizabeth.
There is also another blood thinner called Rivaroxaban (Brand name: Xarelto). A relative of mine is on it. She doesn’t have to take Omeprazole to protect the stomach.
I had a relative on blood thinners and she felt they were dangerous to be on.
I had never heard the term “frenemies” before, but my first reaction was that it sounds like a goofy term dreamed up by the denizens of Facebook, where you can “Friend” and “Unfriend” people at will, and “Like” or “Unlike” (or whatever it’s called) comments until the cows come home, or the swallows return to Capistrano.
I think the real issue in excluding relationships is if they have the potential to lead you into near occasions of sin. If we, for example, are trying to combat our faults, and persevering in being pious and devoted Catholics, then obviously we can’t be associating with party animals, or others whose lives are are predominantly sensual….no matter how much we might enjoy their company.
And if we enjoy their company that much, then we should be praying for their conversion while limiting our association with them.
That said, my first impressions of people are almost always wrong, and I find myself having to correct them sooner or later (usually sooner). My first impression of Editor, for example, when she picked me up at the airport in 2008, was that she was a slim, witty, attractive, intelligent and charming woman. However, when she kept driving on the wrong side of the road on the way to my lodging, and then couldn’t even tell me what the population of Glasgow was, I had to do some serious re-thinking….
🙂
RCAVictor
Count yourself lucky that she didn’t welcome you to the city with the famous “Glasgow kiss”. That would certainly have impeded your thinking (or re-thinking) for a while!!
RCA Victor,
Your comment about our first meeting made me laugh a hollow laugh! I’m sure I’ve told you before that when a friend visited me from England and I told her about your “population of Glasgow” question, she replied that that was the sort of question only a man would ask. Women (herself, for example) would ask “Where are the shops?”
Anyway, the answer to your question remains the same – the population of Glasgow is me, moi, myself and a few other people 😀
And for your interest, your fellow American, our sometime blogger, Wurdesmythe from Florida, is here on a visit, touring Scotland, and we are having him over for a barbecue tomorrow; well, to be more accurate, we are having the usual hamburgers etc for a barbecue tomorrow, and Wurdesmythe will join us 😀
I intend to keep him talking about the population of Loch Lomond and other tourist spots because there are so many visitors to those places that I couldn’t possibly be expected to keep track… 😀
Editor
Hamburgers is so vernacular. We’re Traditional Catholics gathering together to share bubulo Hamborgensis!
Editor,
Please give my best to Wurdesmythe, and tell him to watch out for your driving! 🙂
Since he’s from Florida, he might be interested in the fact that several families have moved from that noble State to the even more noble State of Kentucky, in order to be able to partake of the Traditional Sacraments at a Traditional parish I happen to know…
Editor,
Speaking of you entertaining various Yanks, I haven’t inquired after Miss McMoneypenny, your fellow tour guide, in quite a while. I hope she is well!
RCA Victor,
As it happens, Wurdesmythe is still here, chatting away in the company so I slipped away for the sole purpose of reading your blog posts 😀 I’ll now go off and pass on your message…
About Miss McMoneypenny – Betty – I saw her a couple of weeks ago, always in good spirits although still suffering the effects of her stroke. She hasn’t regained her power of speech so I tease her that that leaves me free to talk non-stop, no interruptions, no contradictions. She laughs. I always mention that you are still blogging away and she smiles fondly when I mention your name, so you can bask in the fame and popularity all in one go! I will pass on your regards next time I see her.
RCA Victor,
Be careful, I sense you could be languishing in moderation until the end of time . . .
westminsterfly,
That might be better than being on the receiving end of the “Glasgow kiss” that Athanasius mentions – which, as far as I can figure, is basically a head-butt to the nose…
RCA Victor,
Yes, it is – terrible.
RCA Victor – Glasgow Kiss – example here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFdUmLEJqtY
P.S. Re: the video link. I didn’t understand about a third of what Rab said, but Elaine C Smith is brilliant. You’ll get the gist!
Do you know, the one thing I’ve noticed about this thread – is the sense of ease, humour and camaraderie between a lot of people, many who have never met each other before. That’s friendship – and it should be valued. It’s made me wish I could stay in contact with people after the blog has closed (except trolls).
WF,
Well… at least you didn’t say “except editor”…
westminsterfly
I agree with you entirely. I guess it kind of takes the place, to some extent, of the Catholic friendship we have been denied due to the absence of parish life. We may not always agree with each other, but that Catholic spirit of charity and respect has largely always been present on the blog (apart from when the odd troll comes calling).
Petrus, this blog post is becoming like a doctors waiting room LoL. I sincerely hope that it was just a one off. Last year, I also had a potential life threatening condition, I had blood clots in both lungs, and am now on Apixaban. which is in the same drug group as Rivaroaban and Edoxiban.
Keep well.
Thank you, Littlemore.
I have a few risk factors that are being addressed and being monitored closely. There are a few scans I still need to have, but, in the words of Elton John, “I’m still standing!”
I think we all need to remember that friendship doesn’t always mean agreeing with someone. Friends should be able to disagree, without being labelled “an enemy”. That is a very childish view of friendship.
Sometimes it is necessary not to just agree with your friend in order to keep them sweet. It’s also permissible to refuse to get involved in situations that don’t concern us. Only a narcissist would demand unconditional loyalty from their friends.
Petrus
I agree with you to a point. In everyday material matters, it is perfectly fine and normal for friends to hold opposing opinions. However, in the moral/religious sphere, especially if the friends share the same Catholic Faith, then anything which threatens the sanctifiction and salvation of souls should always result in a united stand. In this latter case, it is never permissible to refuse to get involved since even a position of silence would be tantamount to keeping the perpetrator of a supernatural crime sweet.
I recall on this latter point the reason for Pope Honorius I’s posthumous condemnation and excommunication. Now, as Popes go Honorius actually did a lot of good things. But he failed in one essential point of duty, which was to crush a certain heresy then afflicting the Church. Because of his sensitive nature, Honorius not only bound the proponents of the heresy to silence, he silenced also the orthodox opponents of the heresy. As a result, the heresy dragged on for decades causing great disturbance and disunity in the Church. The upshot of it all is that by not wishing to make himself the enemy of either side, he took a stand on silence and thereby became an enemy of the truth and of God, the author of truth.
In fine, when it’s a matter affecting immortal souls we have to choose a side and make a stand in truth and justice. This is what Archbishop Lefebvre did when faced with the destructive spirit of the so-called “concilliar reform”.
Athanasius,
I agree with you. However, a recent sermon I heard clarified the matter in my head. When a priest makes a decision we have a duty to give him the benefit of the doubt, despite our own misgivings.
Petrus
It’s difficult to comment on that statement without knowing what the situation is or might be when a priest makes a decision that means we have a duty to give him the benefit of the doubt. My first thought on reading that was, what if there isn’t any doubt?
My comment flew away before I finished it – did the priest give you any examples of when you should give the priest the benefit of the doubt?
Petrus
It depends on whether the decision of the priest is in the spirit of Our Lord or the spirit of Lucifer. We can tell this by comparing his words and actions with those of Our Lord, His Church and His saints. This is the infallible guide in every instance and it helps us to cut through any self-justifying sophistry that a bad priest may offer to mask his wickedness.
A classic example from personal experience was when the parish priest of St. Mungo’s refused me entry to the church because I refused to wear a mask duing the COVID nonsense. He explained his decision as one taken for the greater good of the congregation, but beneath the sophistry it was clear that he thought more of the health of the body than the health of the soul. His decision was contrary to the spirit of Our Lord, His Church. It was evil, pure and simple, and I told him so. It was a no brainer.
Athanasius,
That is a very useful example and shows that there can be no doubt at all when priests make particular decisions.
I know we can’t discuss it but I hope it’s OK to make a reference to it, the recent situation of banning someone from Mass because that is also a no brainer IMHO. There can be no doubt that Our Lord would not have done that – he told us to leave our gifts at the altar until we were able to forgive, 70 times 77.
Fidelis
In general, banning any soul from Mass, unless for the very gravest of reasons, such as knowing that a person intends to disrupt the Mass with loud protest or something of that order of magnitude, is straight from Hell. No amount of sophistry can disguise that fact.
Bishop Stephen Robson confirmed my Catholic instinct in this when, in response to my email about a certain situation, he wrote “it is a very serious matter indeed to forbid someone access to Mass. It sounds like abuse of clerical authority and should be escalated immediately to superiors for arbitration…”
This truth confirmed by Bishop Robson became even clearer when I read the life of the Cure of Ars. I think it fair to state that the action in question is so far removed from the spirit of the holy Cure, whose spirit was Our Lord’s, that evil is the only word to adequately describe it.
Speaking of the Cure of Ars, there was one example in his life that demonstrated sublimely his priestly humility. It seems a number of people in the town were very unhappy with the saint’s attempts to convert them from sinful to virtuous living, and so they went in search of signatures for their petition to the bishop to have him removed. All kinds of calumnies were mentioned in this petition culminating in a general accusation that Jean Marie Vianney was “a bad and worthless priest”.
The petition was brought to the attention of the Cure and, once having read it, he immediately added his signature to. “There”, said he, “now the bishop will be obliged to acknowledge the unworthiness of the pastor of Ars.”
This is so touching a story of priestly humility, a priest after the heart of our dear Lord, that it puts to eternal shame all priests who take offence at the least opposition or criticism. It’s hard to see any reflection of Our Lord in the latter, but the Pharisee with his threats and punishments is very evident.
There is also another lesson from the life of the Cure. It was on occasion when a priest complained that his parish was full of indifferent Catholics. The Cure asked him “have you fasted, slept on a hard floor and taken the discipline to win grace for them”. “no”, replied the priest. “Well”, replied the Cure, “once you have done that you will have cause to complain”.
Imagine the great good that even a dozen like the holy Cure could do today in this world?
Dear Editor, I could not reply to your longer post above; but I wanted to touch on a phenomenon that sometimes occurs with good friends who are experiencing the same arduous circumstances or undergoing the same ordeals. As you so aptly noted: “A few people, too, yourself included, have identified the mark of a “true” friend as being one who stands by us in times of trouble.”
I think of my first year at college as a Navy midshipman, in a most difficult sink-or-swim environment, and homesick for friends and family 2,000 miles away. How we midshipmen formed friendships! (My oldest friend, Dave, and I still keep in touch 51 years after meeting.) I think of going through Navy pilot training. Again, Dave and I would unwind at the end of a stressful flying day and go to our favorite restaurant in nearby Beeville, Texas. I also think of my days at sea, far from home, again sharing with Dave our mutual longing to be back with our loved ones while discharging our duties during six-month deployments aboard big gray vessels. Friendships were what carried us through during those long separations from our loved ones. And of course when soldiers and sailors face the probability of danger and even combat, we form special bonds that are not easily broken.
But the strange (and somewhat sad) phenomenon to which I initially refer is how we can be very close with another person during a terrible “storm” in that person’s life, then, for some reason, after the skies clear, that person goes his own way. Mrs. Marinaio and I stood up for a Catholic man over 25 years ago whose wife sued for divorce. They had a little girl, and the custody battles caused deep divisions among the “trads” of the area. Our point was a simple one: if a man does not exhibit any dangerous or threatening behavior, he has the natural and the moral right to see his daughter regularly. The lines were drawn, and depending on who you asked, we were either heroes or villains for supporting him in a very public custody battle in the courts. But the point is that after he won shared custody, he was always grateful, and instilled in his daughter a love for those, like ourselves, who fought for his (and her) rights. (You are right when you point out that gratitude is so under-rated these days!)
But lives change, and times change, and circumstances change. And we saw the man — very busy with establishing a new business and raising a daughter — less and less. The “storm” we lived through together was a veritable hurricane, and when the skies cleared and the threat no longer existed, it was — in many ways — natural that we would drift apart, as it was surviving the tempest together that brought us together. We are not bitter in the least. We did what we had to do to help his daughter grow up with her father.
So, yes, friendships carry us through very difficult times. Would that all friends were like Dave, long-lasting and loyal! But as long as we are there for someone in need, it is all that can be expected of us. The friendship will be there in our hearts even after the friend is long gone.
Marinaio,
Thank you for posting your wonderful experiences of friendship – most touching. You were a great friend in those circumstances and if I don’t seem to be surprised, that’s because I’m not!
The barbecue was a delightful gathering – I need to come back more often. I was delighted to hear that my American accent wasn’t too distracting – my hosts were very gracious. I also appreciate the many generous servings of tea and coffee, all the biscuits, the several helpings of bubulo Hamborgensis, and the welcoming hospitality. This poor sinner is no angel, but I feel as if I’ve been treated like one. God bless you all.
westminsterfly,
Having just watched the Glasgow kiss video clip you posted, I am ROFL as they say, and also thinking that American comedy is nothing compared to this! Thanks for posting!
RCA Victor,
Just be grateful you weren’t on the receiving end of any ‘GK’. . . !!! 😀
WF,
He WILL be on the receiving end of a “GK” if he doesn’t stop taunting me about my ignorance of the population of Glasgow in 2009 😀
RCA Victor
If you need a full dose of mockery of the worst of Glaswegian culture à la Rab C Nesbitt, the complete box set series are available for the USA on http://www.amazon.com
westminsterfly and Editor,
If “GK” refers to GK Chesterton, bring it on!
RCA Victor
GK Chesterton used to live in Candlemas Lane, Beaconsfield, which is not far from where I live. I saw his house once (it’s privately owned so you can’t go in it) and I visited his grave. I found this (non-Catholic) website which has pics taken by an American visiting the house and grave. https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/visiting-the-home-and-grave-of-g-k-chesterton
RCA Victor,
No, in this context, a “GK” refers to a “Glasgow Kiss” which is, she said ashamedly, a headbutt – Ouch! 😀
Athanasius,
Yes, I agree with you on that one. That priest who chucked you out because you didn’t wear a face nappy was acting in the spirit of Lucifer. What a nut!
Petrus
If he was a nut he would be without culpability. But he’s no nut, just a faithless priest. Speaking of which, I was warned recently by another priest that unless I stopped speaking about a certain clerical scandal, I would be expelled. I wonder why priests are so keen to chuck souls out of the House of God in our time. It seems completely at odds with the divine mission Our Lord entrusted to His Church.
Fidelis,
What you say is true, but in order to be forgiven we need to actually apologise.
Petrus,
There was an apology given and a public one at that, but it was not accepted. I just checked that on the blog, so as it’s online anyway, I hope it’s OK to post the link here
https://catholictruthscotland.com/2023/03/29/on-the-closure-of-the-catholic-truth-apostolate/
Fidelis,
I’ll leave your comments now, but best to let sleeping whatsitcalled lie. There are two camps in this situation, sadly, and it doesn’t help to underline the fact. Your kindness is hugely appreciated, though.
Fidelis,
I agree with editor 100%. Best to let sleeping cats lie!
Petrus
Our Lord Himself disproves your observation in the Gospel story of the woman caught in adultery, as in other Gospel examples.
If you recall, it was the pharisees and like-minded enforcers of the letter of the law who took up stones to stone her for her crime. Our Lord, in the spirit of the law, reprimanded them first by bending down and writing in the sand the hidden sins of those who were so eager to stone the adultress. He then challenged those accusers with “he among you who is without sin, let him cast the first stone”. Afterwards, when all had left, He sent the woman on her way with His mercy “go and sin no more”. There is not a single mention of Our Lord first asking this poor soul to apologise for her adulterous behaviour.
There are countless other examples in the Gospels and Epistles admonishing us to pray for and do good to those who harm us, turning the other cheek, as Our Lord did when His executioners, who represented us sinners, beat, scourged and crucified Him. Not a single demand for apology left His sacred lips, only “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do”.
Apologising to someone when we become aware of having offended them in some way is, of course the Christian thing to do. But our apology is only sincere if we know in conscience that we have been delinquent in their regard.
Those with clean conscience cannot and must not be coerced into apologising for crimes they have not committed. This is particuarly true in the spiritual life. It is a very serious sin indeed before God for any clerical authority to use the means of our sanctification as a weapon of blackmail to suppress truth.
You’ll recall how the Nazi and Soviet powers used to parade battered and bruised prisoners before cameras to apologise before the world for perceived crimes against these evil regimes. Everone watching knew that such apologies were coerced and worthless. The same happens in this wicked world today. Every time someone exposes evil in public they are immediately pounced upon and coerced by all kinds of wicked means to apologise to the evildoer(s). This is how wicked tyrrants get away with all manner of evil, including the murder of people and souls.
Athanasius,
Thank you for that.
I’m mindful of editor’s request for this to be left alone, so I will continue to hold fast to what I recently heard in a sermon – in cases which are doubtful we should give the priest the benefit of the doubt.
Petrus
You must, of course, act in accordance with the dictates of conscience, which God alone sees and will judge each of us on. Unlike some, I wouldn’t dream of coercing you into acting contrary to your conscience.
As regards appealing to superiors for justice, you’ll probably know from the life of Archbishop Lefebvre that this option doesn’t always work out for the good. A lot depends on whether superiors are motivated by the spirit of Our Lord or the spirit of clericalism.
His Grace appealed to the very highest authorities of the day, quoting endless teachings to them from Tradition to prove his innocence and support his very public stance in defence of the faith handed down, yet they shut their ears to reason and their hearts to truth.
It’s quite ironic that the 1988 agreement with Rome finally broke down when Archbishop Lefebvre was presented with a document to sign apologising for all the hurt he had caused the Pope and the Church by his “disobedience”. Of course, he could not in good conscience put his signature to such a document so he refused and soon followed the false excommunication. So yes, fidelity to our Catholic conscience is essential to our integrity as free children of God in the Church. We can neither betray it ourselves nor permit others to coerce it into silence if we value our salvation.
If we believe a priest has acted badly, unfairly or “in the spirit of Lucifer”, then we have a duty to have recourse to his superior. If the superior agrees with the priest then we should have recourse to HIS superior.
Athanasius,
It’s not easy these days when confusion reigns everywhere!
Petrus
Very true and unspeakbly tragic for all of us.
Athanasius,
A reader who has just been perusing this thread and who knows about my “situation” has just said that your comments on this are simply crystal clear, and anyone who cannot see the truth of the matter in hand is either wilfully blind or has a personal agenda.
You have answered every single possible “defence” of the banning and your posts are “just unanswerable” – that is, nobody can answer the points you made, and this most recent exchange has brought home to me the fact that there are people with their own vested interests (so to speak) who have their own reasons for not wanting to criticise the priests. They may think that they are protecting their own and their family’s best interests but there can be no grace in such intellectual dishonesty, or, if it’s not intellectual dishonesty, it’s a pity that they are not as clear-thinking as your good self.
This has nothing to do with the nonsense of giving a priest who makes such a dreadful decision as to expel someone from Mass the benefit of any doubt. Your comments have demonstrated clearly that there IS no doubt, and what they have also demonstrated in this very useful thread, is that those who cling to that rather confused sermon (I’ve heard it quoted by all and sundry) are clutching at the proverbial straw, because they do not wish to risk the ire of the priests who will not hesitate to expel them, as well. Shocking.
I’m not looking for any public support. My real concern is to prevent this scandal happening again. Let’s leave it there.
Editor
I’m glad I was able to unravel the sophistry and set the record straight. However, for the benefit of all readers, here’s how a sermon should sound.
Athanasius,
Classic Rev I. M. Jolly – thanks you for posting.
The population of Glasgow’s council area is 626,410
source https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/demographyandmigrationdatacontent/2022-11-02#demography-unrounded-population-estimates
The population of Glasgow’s metro area is 1,861,315
source Eurostat
Wurdesmythe,
Well, let’s hope RCA Victor sees those figures soon and stops tormenting me 😀
It was great to see you again after all these years – enjoy the rest of your trip to Bonnie (if ‘not-so-sunny’) Scotland.
Editor,
(Gee, thanks, WurdeSmythe, for spoiling my fun!)
The best way to silence my tormenting is to ask me about the population of Cincinnati, New York, and San Francisco, at which point you would hear crickets. But then, I suppose, I’d have to think up another method of torment….
Alternatively, if you ever visit the USA – or what’s left of it – and have me pick you up at the airport, you could always complain that I’m driving on the wrong side of the road!
WurdeSmythe
You can add about 3 million to the official figures to cover illegal migrants!
Athanasius,
Tsk-tsk, we mustn’t offend all those military-age Muslim males by calling them “illegal migrants.” Better to refer to them as “citizenship-challenged residents,” or “temporary occupants of posh hotel rooms at government expense.”
Athanasius,
You wrote:
“As regards appealing to superiors for justice, you’ll probably know from the life of Archbishop Lefebvre that this option doesn’t always work out for the good. A lot depends on whether superiors are motivated by the spirit of Our Lord or the spirit of clericalism.”
I think there’s a duty, outlined in the gospels, to have recourse to superiors no matter what we think. In the case of the SSPX, that is the District Superior and then the Superior General. If there’s not a satisfactory response, or no response at all, at least we know we have done our duty.
Taking to the blogosphere without first asking superiors to intervene, is, surely sinful.
Petrus,
Maybe I’ve got this wrong (I don’t think editor said it in her talk but I thought I had read it somewhere in the original discussion about this situation) – I think editor copied all the superiors into her email correspondence with the priests from the start of the situation, including the superior of the while SSPX. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, but I don’t think so, TBH.
They must be wishing they’d acted earlier because this situation is now out of hand, IMHO, and there was no need for it. That is what I call sinful, not discussing it.
“whole” SSPX – sorry typo.
Fidelis,
You could be right. It’s a very difficult situation.
Petrus
The superiors you cite ignored all correspondence in this and other matters of concern for quite some time. In contrast, Bishop Stephen Robson was the very essence of the Good Shepherd when advice was sought. His pastoral wisdom and charity impressed me greatly and highlighted why we so despereately need a restoration of all things in Christ in the Church’s true hierarchy.
Athanasius,
Well, I stand corrected there.
In response to Fidelis if editor copied in the superior and district superior surely common sense dictates that their non participation suggests that having been informed of the situation by the clergy involved and given that they are !most likely aware off everything that editor has written and said regards the situation it certainly says to me they have backed their priests.
Frances,
Never mind common sense, common courtesy demands that they reply to correspondence, surely, it’s only good manners and doesn’t editor have a right to know that they support her expulsion and do they not have a duty to publicly state her scandal and correct her for it? To me, it’s bleeding obvious, LOL!
Frances
Imagine a criminal justice system in which the Crown prosecution together with the judge, trampling established norms, assumed to themselves the right to deny an accused person the opportunity to put their defence, deciding instead to close ranks and simply hand down a guilty verdict and a life sentence. What would we make of a system like that? Same applies in religion, but with far more responsibility on those in authority to ensure that they judge justly. Trial and sentence without the right to a defence is not of God, it’s of the devil, which is why the method was favoured by such as the Soviets and the Nazis.
Correct me if I’m wrong but from what I have read thus far I only see Editors side of whatever has gone on.Is this because you might ask yourself it would be outrageous for the clergy concerned to get into a public tit for tat.Me l prefer to have both sides off the story before making judgement a courtesy I don’t see extended here especially when it is quite apparent that there are comments being made by people who don’t even know these priests.These are simply my observations but deep down you know this is not behaviour expected off Catholics.
Frances
If you have been following the story properly, you would have realised by now that it was precisely because superiors refused to hear both sides of the story that the other side (namely, the laity side) is being aired here. Under normal circumstances, when clerics practice proper charity and justice in respect to the souls under their care, there would be no need for a public airing. As things stand, however, it is they who have forced the public debate by ignoring all private appeals to them for arbitration. Is that clear enough for you?
Athanasius,
Whisky in Gaelic is “Uisge Beatha” which translated as “water of life”.
Petrus
I didn’t know that. Every day is a school day, right enough. I would argue though that it very much depends on the brand of whiskey. I think the cheaper versions were once called “fire water” by the Native American Indians.
And you Athanasius had you read my first comment properly you would clearly have seen that I stated it would suggest The superiors back their priests in quite frankly what should have remained a private matter between the parties involved. As editor herself said good meaning though you people are you are making the situation worse maybe a little thinking before you write would be a good idea.If indeed that was the decision taken then that should have been the end of it period.I will resist the temptation to indulge you in your rudeness suffice it to say people like you always become very sensitive and defensive when their word is not taken as gospel or as I have noted on a couple off these topics I!immediately labelled trolls without any real foundation whilst you arrogantly claim a blog like no other because you allow debate nothing could be further from the truth especially on this topic.Like you always remind others you to are answerable to God so concentrate on saving your own soul and the parties involved in this situation will do so their souls.
Frances
There are times when, for charity’ sake, certain personal exchanges are best brought to a close. This is one of those times.
frances,
I have somehow missed your comments until now – you have some nerve!
The majority of the bloggers here are always outraged when we discuss any injustice, so it is hardly surprising that they have concerns when someone – anyone – is prohibited from attending Mass for no other reason that they have publicly criticised a priest! For Heaven’s sake, the blogosphere is jam-packed with Catholics criticising priests! Gimme a break!
As for “people like you” (as you describe Athanasius), let me say loud and clear that it is people like you frances who are the problem.
Have you complained to Dr Taylor Marshall for his criticisms of various bishops and priests? What about his feature of the young priest who said Mass on a floating raft? The poor priest was castigated across the internet even after explaining that it was just so hot and he felt forced to take off his shirt and get into the water to say Mass that day… Poor soul. Did you jump to his defence? Was Taylor Marshall wrong to criticise him? That poor priest?
There are many other commentators across the internet who challenge priests, even say very harsh things about them, and nobody bats an eyelid, let alone turns them away at the Church door.
Now, I do not wish to resurrect this scandal: I am merely writing in response to your very unpleasant attack on Athanasius, who, throughout this “situation” has done nothing more than try to put right an injustice. I suggest that since you clearly don’t give a toss about the injustice – possibly because you’ve never suffered one yourself, who knows… – but, whatever, I suggest that you do not reply to this, let it go now or – if you insist on commenting, check out the facts before doing so. They’re all in my talk to Conference published in the May 2023 newsletter. As they say in the US, go see, go figure or, as I say… just go 😀
Frances,
I have to say that your insinuation that Athanasius is “sensitive” and “arrogant”. He is anything but.
As for the blog, more leeway is given on this blog to those who disagree than other other online site I know.
Sorry, that first sentence should read:
I have to say that your insinuation that Athanasius is “sensitive” and “arrogant” is way off the mark.
Frances,
You appear to have some cult / sect mentality. (And no, I do not think the SSPX is a cult, sect, or in schism). I think the problem is with you personally. You need to deal with that. Promptly. P.S. I live down South in England so am no part at all of the ‘issues’ you make allegations about.
I would suggest that the time has come when we really ought to get on our knees and place this horrible situation in the hands of St. Joseph. What needed to be said has been said and now we should ask this great Patron for help, trusting fully in his intercessory power with God.
May 24 is the Feast of Our Lady Help of Christians, so that’s an ideal starting point, and May 31 is the Visitation of the Blessed Virgin which seems to me to be a great end point. If others will agree to join in, I suggest a daily prayer to St. Joseph throughout this period. I hope others will join with me in reciting the following prayer every day from May 24 through May 31.
This is the ancient prayer petition to St. Joseph (never known to fail).
O ST. JOSEPH, whose protection is so great, so strong, so prompt before the throne of God, I place in thee all my interests and desires (mention here the intention). O St. Joseph, assist me by thy powerful intercession and obtain for me all spiritual blessings through thy foster Son, Jesus Christ Our Lord, so that, having engaged here below thy heavenly power, I may offer thee my thanksgiving and homage.
O St. Joseph, I never weary contemplating thee and Jesus asleep in thine arms. I dare not approach while He reposes near thy heart. press Him in my name and kiss His fine head for me, and ask Him to return the kiss when I draw my dying breath. St. Joseph, Patron of departing souls, pray for me.
Athanasius,
That’s a wonderful suggestion. I will join in and I will send it to some of my church contacts.
Athanasius,
I have been getting replies from my contacts this morning and the majority who have read your suggestion are expressing delight and promising to join in. So, this is something that may bear much fruit, God willing.
Athanasius,
I have been praying that St Joseph prayer for the grace of a resolution to this scandal (and I know others are doing so as well) and I believe that the resolution is taking shape now.
Thank you for this wonderful suggestion.
Editor
I’ve also kept up my prayers for this intention, so this is really encouraging. I have every confidence in St. Joseph.
Catherine
That’s fantastic. I’m sure many will join in this holy exercise of faith and trust in St. Joseph. He never fails!
Happy to join in this prayer between the two great Feasts but the 31 May is the Feast of the Queenship of Our Lady – the Visitation is on 2nd July, to the best of my knowledge, and I just double checked on google, LOL!
Margaret Mary
Quite right. I have one of those Modernist calendars where all the old feast days are moved or gone. Well, ending on the Queenship of Our Lady (May 31) is even better. Well spotted.
Athanasius,
I will certainly pray as you suggest. My views have evolved on this issue and my conclusion is no doubt unpopular, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want the situation resolved.
Petrus
Many thanks for joining in. There can never be any harm done by praying.
As regards your view evolving, I would be very careful about evolutionary thought, you’ll have the local Modernist bishop at your door asking you to become his personal theologian!
Athanasius,
That’s one route out of my current job!
Editor,
I’ve actually just read your comment at May 23, 2023 at 12:35 pm.
I have to say I don’t imagine that you are helping your situation by making comments like this. You are showing no humility whatsoever and this is not going to help resolve the situation.
Petrus,
I can’t remember what I said five minutes ago, let alone yesterday at 12.35pm – however, two points:
1) I’m not humble – never claimed to be
2) but not to worry – you are really helping “resolve the situation” 😀
Editor,
I have always had a humility by pass!
Petrus,
Your quick wit reminds me of this gentleman who stoated into a bar (well, he’s a Glaswegian) and called out…
“I’m the smartest person in the world. In fact, I know every single word in this dictionary!”
One of the men at the bar takes the dictionary and says, “Okay, tell me the meaning of the words humility, charity, and patience.”
The genius replies, “Oh, so you’re just gonnae make up your own words now, are you?”
You just have to laugh (I hope!)
Editor,
Your joke reminded me of my cousin. She was reported (falsely) to “the broo” for claiming benefits whilst she was working. An officer turned up at her home and told her of their concerns. She exclaimed in horror:
“Excuse me. Ah’ ve never worked a day in my life!”
Petrus,
That’s hilarious! Priceless!
Petrus,
I have only seen the news about the TIA this evening – I hope you are recovering well and I will be sure to pray for you.
My mother had a TIA a few years ago – it was quite frightening at the time, but she made a full recovery and its ancient history now. Any risk of it happening again is now well managed with medication – I am sure it will be the same for you.
Take care!
Gabriel,
Many thanks for your kindness. I am doing ok. God willing I will get to Mass tomorrow and hope to return to work in about a week. I have slight weakness on my left hand side and short term memory issues, but these are all getting better. The droop on the side of my mouth has returned to normal as well.
I’m making some lifestyle changes and I am now on so many tablets I’m rattling, but if it sorts things out and prevents any other problems, I’m happy to take them. It’s very reassuring to hear about your mum. I’m glad she’s made a full recovery.